It is not only Monroe who is cropping up
Noinden
Argh I thought this had been debunked but it's "back" and some one is
pushing it as authentic again.... one wonders if this was "Jims"
secret teachings *snicker*
Dana
"Noinden" <noi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f86d40fb-87a4-426b...@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
Gee, I must have missed the staff meeting about the debunking.....I know
quite a few people in the LA area who are or were members of the Church of
the Roebuck, including one of their higher ranking HP/HPS couples. The male
half (they're now divorced) also posts regularly on certain high-profile
Celtic Recon groups & is a long-time member of one of the Celtic martial
arts groups. I'll not name names here for obvious reasons, but last time I
checked, Roebuck is alive and well.
I also wondered if the Cochrane material wasn't part of the source for Jim's
"Traditional British Wicca(tm)", along with that Klan yahoo Dan met, & so
kept my associations quiet.
Noinden
> "Noinden" <noin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The teachings were debunked a while back in some lists I was on.
Debunked as NOT authentic Celtic anything ;)
Dana
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, that shouldn't be too hard.....especially after seeing these
pictures.....and I see their website aesthetic hasn't improved either.
http://ancientkelticchurch.org/history.html
(in case anyone misses it, those are Hogwarts Sorting Hats from Harry
Potter.......)
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ahh you just HAD to do that?
Dana
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The truth should be made known......just doin' my yob....... ;-D
An Coibhi Drui
No wonder Irish Druid John Murray in Vermont, who researched by
attending meetings , events, and indeed by personal interviewing of
leading American Druids, reported back to us here, summing up that "
American Druidry is Far Out " adding that it is basically Wicca
dressed up in Druid Robes.
However, as a Supreme Court Judge always develops his or her
conclusion and judgement, none of the parties except the wife of one
in this thread is American, so I can't on the basis of this thread
find American Druidry to be Far Out, and therefore adjourn judgement
on Druid John Murray's submission.
And now, Noinden, Dana, can you please enlighten the rest of us as to
what on earth you are on about ? Or you shall have to be adjudged Far
Out :-)
However...
Dana
"An Coibhi Drui" <Photographe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2e8850d9-80ec-4497...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
Please read for content (a futile request, I know, but....). *Nowhere* does
the Church of the Roebuck claim to be Druidic, or Druids or to be
transmitting Druid lore.
An Coibhi Drui
> "An Coibhi Drui" <PhotographerOfKilke...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:2e8850d9-80ec-4497...@37g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...
As a learned Supreme Court Judge usually does, through perpetual
boredom, I shall accept your submission that " Roebuck " is not
Druidic, not that I think it is pertinent in any case.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
BTW ., Speaking of Vermont, the Mother-in-Law of a favourite nephew of
mine is a local Judge there, and I am invited by her to visit ,
whenever. ( My nephew concerned is defending his Ph.D Thesis at
Maynooth University, Ireland, next month) .
And his sister my niece is married here in Kilkenny to a seven-and-a-
half foot New Zealander !!!
They shall be amongst those with me at Tara in a fortnight's time.
Cheers,
Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
Being a Trinity Man I would of course be considered in that class, a
fact that upsets HMVIS greatly.
Cheers,
Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
Some more things about me that will upset HMVIS greatly include the
fact that the father of the nephew concerned, one of my brothers-in-
law, is several times over a millionaire and one of the richest men in
Kilkenny. Another brother-in-law here is Chief Accountant on the Board
of Irish food giant Glanbia ( formerly Avonmore) on a half a million
Euro bonus a year on top of his salary, expenses and directors fees.
Yet another brother-in-law has his own Accountants firm with fifteen
employees and is a first cousin of my pal Bobby Aylward TD, Dail
Eireann, and Liam Aylward MEP ( Hope Liam is still an MEP ( Member of
the European Parliament) after the Election Count on Sunday) . Ah I
could go on, but I don't wish to have HMVIS knash his teeth too much
all at once !
Cheers,
Michael.
noinden
Read then type for once. Oh and "American" druidry is further from Wicca
than Irish druidry us from the Masons;)
An Coibhi Drui
try again, you are not making sense.
???
An Coibhi Drui
BTW You are neither an American nor a Druid .
An Coibhi Drui
Some sort of a " neo-pagan wiccan new ager " is my assessment of you,
definitely Marxist too, the usual concoction that ries to co-opt
Druidry. But you're shallow, an arrogant buffoon of an idiot, and most
of all an empty-headed loudmouth.
An Coibhi Drui
A dabbler and a sham - the old saying,
" A little knowledge is a dangerous thing "
must have been observed with people like you in mind !
noinden
I however belong to a US neopagan Druidic organisation and I am an
elected member of it! Oh and if you think calling mr a Wiccan is an
insult try again mic!
An Coibhi Drui
That is the way you come across, a Wiccan leftist pagan dabbling in
ceremonial magic, so better try to change your style as that is the
exact impression you give.
noinden
An Coibhi Drui
I don't think it would matter whatever anybody tells or advises you.
you shape up here as a Big Man, come my way anytime !
You are just a miserable little weirdo, who can't deal with society,
hiding behind a keyboard like your pal that other social misfit Dan.
Real Nowhere Men :-)
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Old bean, lets make afew things clear.
I am considerably younger than you. Ex bouncer, and trained in
Combatives. I don't go looking for fights. But if you tried anything.
You would fail.
Hiding behinde a keyboard? How else does one type on a news group? I
don't live near you, thus the only interaction we are going to have is
via a keyboard.
An Coibhi Drui
Go away, Scharznegger, if I tried anything, or rather ORDERED
anything,
you would be instantly very dead :-)
I'm disappointed, thought you said you're coming to Kilkenny ???
I never wanted any of your interaction,
so please spare me - and this newsgroup too :-)
You don't live near me, thank your lucky stars for that !
I have a sort of a sympathy for Dan the Real Nowhere Man.
none at all for you,
So go away, start tormenting the local pagans of Milwaukee again,
heard you're good at that - but they will never accept you,
and I don't wonder why :-)
Look it's a lovely sunny day here, I had a great weekend,
we're planning for Tara -
the " Foreign Legion" is going to hit the ground there,
So at the moment I'm far too busy to deal with minor problems like
you,
so take yourself and your loneliness elsewhere,
preferably to one of your wiccan newsgroups, alt. magic or whatever,
with all my best wishes to you for the happy pursuit of your interests
at your childish level.
Cheers,
Michael.
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sure you think you have that kind of power Mike. But lets be honest
you are a sad old man who time is forgetting!
You also admited you would need help to do anything. Just as well you
have none. Because I really do not think you would live in a Prison
very long at your age.
I came to Kilkenny.No sign of you however. Probably sleeping it off ;)
An Coibhi Drui
Jasus, are you back nagging again ???
An Coibhi Drui
You are also a very bad liar :-)
Sizzle Flambé
For the life of me, I cannot tell what you two are bickering about.
You're both proud men. Yes, I *understand* that part. Feisty, tetchy,
drag-your-shirt-and-see-who-looks-cross-eyed-at-its-shadow proud.
But set the two of you down in one place, and how many others in a
hundred-mile radius would share your depth and intensity of interest
in matters druidic? Put the drinks suitable for conversation in
your hands, and the two of you could be lost to the world for weeks.
Please back off the insults, the both of you. Behave like the
gentlemen
that the both of you really are, not the schoolboys you were long ago.
Please show us all, and the world, a conduct befitting druids.
Thank you.
Sizzle Flambé
Since two hours have gone by with no reply from anyone,
just an afterthought occurs to mention, in case it wasn't
already obvious to the both of you.
Noinden: you already *know* what sort of foulness Michael
has endured from Con and Cormac, and you can well expect
it has had an effect on his temper *as it would on yours*.
So stop *poking*. You wouldn't like it either, right?
Michael: you've made reference to Noinden having a hard
time in Milwaukee, as if that were funny to you. Well, in
the name of all you hold dear, *don't you know exactly how
that feels yourself?* Haven't you *both* have a hard time,
haven't you *both* had your tempers frayed, shouldn't you
*both* stop poking each other's sore spots? You're too much
alike, you've been through too similar hardships, you might
at least show each other a little brotherly sympathy instead
of whaling away at each other like mortal enemies. Right?
Right. I'm done now. Good luck to the both of you.
root
Hehehe,
If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
;)
golwg
Matthew
Sizzle Flambé
> Hehehe,
>
> If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
"Hehehe"? If they're wrangling for the joy of it, that's one thing,
but I saw no joy here. If they're wrangling over issues, that's
another, but where was the issue? I saw two tired and sore men,
both ready to take out their pain and anger on each other, to no
point nor purpose, but to wear each other out further, and lose
the friendship they *ought* to be having. So that you could laugh?
root
Yes, because it's all pretty irrelevant - that's the joke.
golwg
Matthew
noinden
noinden
Sizzle Flambé
Point of view, I suppose. Two men tearing each other down for
nothing,
when their shared interest in druidry should bring them together,
seems
more to me like a waste and a shame than a joke.
What is a joke, and a cruel twisted barbed joke at that, is that the
idea of a druid, the one shining trait in the stereotype that draws
people toward druidry, is that a druid is *wise* -- thoughtful, deep,
mature, given to thinking ahead and beyond, neither petty nor shallow,
as far away as anyone could ask from a malicious rock-throwing child
-- but what sort of mind is represented here on alt.religion.druid?
Con? Cormac? 1X2Willows? "Oh, let them brawl in the mud"?
"Hehehe", Matthew? I'm not laughing. This is utterly unsuitable.
Noinden and Michael are fitted for better conversations than this,
and there is no reason either they *or the rest of us* should be
deprived of hearing two such deeply devoted gentlemen go into the
heart and soul of their respective ideas of druidry and Celtic
spirituality -- a far greater pleasure than mere mud wrestling.
If that is of insufficient interest to you, there are other newsgroups.
Sizzle Flambé
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.druid/msg/e10b0da8784bc470
-- to see your sole new contribution amount to *this*...
On Jun 9, 10:01 am, noinden <huathac...@gmail.cim> wrote:
> Got proof to back that up?
... just breaks my heart.
1X2Willows
>
> Hehehe,
>
> If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
>
> ;)
>
> golwg
>
> Matthew
sure
Then again... why not here exclusively
http://groups.google.ch/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thread/e7c052688ed4cf08/209d15f1a105e7b4?hl=en
and spare everyone else?
oh right... that would require common sense
re-hehehe :)
Sizzle Flambé
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Hehehe,
> >
> > If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > golwg
> >
> > Matthew
>
> sure
>
> Then again... why not here exclusively
> and spare everyone else?
>
> oh right... that would require common sense
>
> re-hehehe :)
Short form: <http://tinyurl.com/ard-troll1> HTH
stonehengeio
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > Hehehe,
>
> > If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
>
> > ;)
>
> > golwg
>
> > Matthew
>
> sure
>
> and spare everyone else?
>
> oh right... that would require common sense
>
> re-hehehe :)
You don't mean roots getting as desperate as most of us are, to have a
debate about something that is not spammed because Michael joins in?
because if you do what is your
point????????????????????????????????????
You cheat Dan! get over it and try not to.
An Coibhi Drui
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > Hehehe,
>
> > If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
>
> > ;)
>
> > golwg
>
> > Matthew
>
> sure
>
> and spare everyone else?
>
> oh right... that would require common sense
>
> re-hehehe :)
It was always common sense where I was and am concerned.
Right now I have started to get some selected readings together for
Tara, a couple of my own, a couple from others, chosen for their
thought-provoking qualities.
I think that readings, soundings, discussions and debates, are far
more appropriate at Tara than the old ' Quarters' rituals that really
never meant much to anyone at Tara, most certainly not to the
Gathering, from my own observations.
I have noted that Depression in people leads to Born-Again
Christianity, especially in examining two relatives of mine - though
they don't know that I have them under observation and examination, as
that would ruin the experiment.
Cheers,
Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
By way of explanation I am finding the prescribed computer science
studies numbingly boring, outside of Artificial Intelligence , in
which there hasn't been a breakthrough in a decade though so much was
promised back then. I think I am on the track of a breakthrough but
need comparative psychology as between man and machine to follow up on
my intuition. I believe that we will have to source our future
approaches to Artificial Intelligence in a marriage of man and
machine, Cybergenetics, now that we might be able to use the new
discovery in Electrotechnology, the Memristor ( Memory-Resistor :
basically an electrical resistor that provides for memory in a circuit
as recently developed by HP Labs) that would give electronic circuits
a ' natural' memory , such as we humans have, for the first time, I
feel that this would be a massive breakthrough that would, for
instance, make present computer systems look like Stone Age
applications in comparison.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
NB: one needs continuous natural memory to execute any plan of action
independently, and it looks to me that we now have the means of giving
such natural memory to machines by application of the newly developed
memristor - that was actually hypothesised thirty years ago.
1X2Willows
news:3549255d-f464-4ab8...@o30g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 9, 12:57 pm, "1X2Willows" wrote:
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Hehehe,
> >
> > If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
> >
> > ;)
> >
> > golwg
> >
> > Matthew
>
> sure
>
> Then again... why not here exclusively
> http://groups.google.ch/group/Google-Groups-Basics/browse_thread/thre...
> and spare everyone else?
>
> oh right... that would require common sense
>
> re-hehehe :)
: Short form: <http://tinyurl.com/ard-troll1> HTH
If the two parties involved would only keep it there... sure that would
help.
No hopes, however.
An Coibhi Drui
Memristor - read all about it :
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Memristor&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
The problem now is that computer scientists the world over are in fact
stumped about how to actually make use of the Memristor in practice. A
couple of us have been trying to work it out in Trinity - but even
though we have a postgraduate electronics engineer amongst us ( my
friend and colleahue Dr. Eamonn Hynes just back from a year in
Cambridge) we have been accorded no research facilities in TCD, not
yet at any rate.
Cheers,
Michael.
root
The point I am making is that there is next to fuck all I can do about
it.
Besides, I'm not in the habit of telling people how to behave. I will
only state my own preferences on general social behaviour - which *is*
for me to say.
If you want to be teacher, all I can say is good luck, and I do mean
that sincerely.
golwg
Matthew
root
> "root" <matthew149...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
> > Hehehe,
>
> > If people want to argue, best to let them get on with it IME.
>
> > ;)
>
> > golwg
>
> > Matthew
>
> sure
>
> and spare everyone else?
>
> oh right... that would require common sense
>
> re-hehehe :)
Oh my, oh my, oh my!
That link is hilarious - thanks Dan!
golwg
Matthew
root
wrote:
Having suffered chronic depression and several nervous breakdowns
myself - I can see why some sufferers turn to religion.
For me, my crazy episodes led me to an understanding that in fact I
know fuck all about existence, which then led me to a philosophy of
agnostic pantheism, which I still hold today.
golwg
Matthew
Noinden
> Please back off the insults, the both of you. Behave like the
> gentlemen
> that the both of you really are, not the schoolboys you were long ago.
Gentleman? Nah I'm a Barbarian to the bone ;)
Ok seriously please dredge through the history of posting to
understand this.
Michael and I are diametrically opposed on various subjects. In the
grand old Gaelic tradition, we fight about it.
Noinden
> Michael and Noinden, Noinden and Michael,
>
> Since two hours have gone by with no reply from anyone,
> just an afterthought occurs to mention, in case it wasn't
> already obvious to the both of you.
>
> Noinden: you already *know* what sort of foulness Michael
> has endured from Con and Cormac, and you can well expect
> it has had an effect on his temper *as it would on yours*.
> So stop *poking*. You wouldn't like it either, right?
I would like to point out that I want both sides to shut the feck up
and behave in that debate! Michael ignores them for a while, then
threatens violence. Sadly he threatens ALL with violence. Dan, me,
Dana etc
An Coibhi Drui
Noinden, you do deserve a fung up the hole :-)
Cheers,
Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
... as your penance.
Now, beating your breast, repeat after me, solemnly in slow deep
voice :
" Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa..."
with eyes cast skyward , looking totally repentant ,
and hopefully feeling genuinely repentant too.
( As your Penance you will go and preach Druidry unto Darkest Africa
for the rest of your life, bearing the Gospel of HMVIS with you
wherever you go , go for I know you have his Most Serene blessing . )
Cheers,
Michael.
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Two things mike.
(1) White I know Latin, I will not speak in it unless it's scientific
Latin.
(2) You have no authority over me or anyone else.
Noinden
Why would that be?
Sizzle Flambé
As you yourself boast "I'm a Barbarian to the bone", and "In the
grand old Gaelic tradition, we fight about it", it seems to me you
are not well positioned to complain of Michael's war cries -- they
are less to be taken seriously half a world away over the Internet
than while waving a weapon in your face upon a battlefield, yes?
You could *both* behave like gentlemen in a civilized drawing room
over either tea or the beverages of your choice -- that would be a
pleasant change -- and bring out your best arguments for your own
positions, minus any childish personal taunts. Impress us all!
Noinden
> On Jun 11, 8:22 am, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As you yourself boast "I'm a Barbarian to the bone", and "In the
> grand old Gaelic tradition, we fight about it", it seems to me you
> are not well positioned to complain of Michael's war cries -- they
> are less to be taken seriously half a world away over the Internet
> than while waving a weapon in your face upon a battlefield, yes?
So I’ve been making death threats against him? Because he certainly
has been throwing those around here against several of us. Those are
not war cries, they are his attempts to seem the big man. Just like
con, tries to seem like the hard done victim, and the other idiots in
the dance of who’s wang is bigger in Irish Druidry take sides.
Again look at the history of the conflict. I also suggest you try
contacting some actual known UK/Irish Pagans over McGrath. I did. All
tell of trying to avoid contact with him. Similarly, Dan and I have
both talked to the Garda over McGrath’s various threats, defamations,
and rather “un civilized” behavior. They basically advised not dealing
with him directly.
If you look at Michaels posts, he has barely touched on Druidic
philosophy, spirituality, or anything of the kind. Instead he will
attack and insult anyone who does not believe his “hereditary Druid”
claim. He’s also attacked the validity of Carr-Gomm, Bonewitts, etc
Funny thing is. Then he’s attacked the regular posters here who do not
kowtow to his “superior” lineage.
So if you want to know why there is no civility? I treat him as he
treats me and others. Usually I ignore him. But I am not a Wiccan or a
Christian, no rede or golden rule applies. Rather I live by a
different set of ethics.
> You could *both* behave like gentlemen in a civilized drawing room
> over either tea or the beverages of your choice -- that would be a
> pleasant change -- and bring out your best arguments for your own
> positions, minus any childish personal taunts. Impress us all!- Hide quoted text -
Why would I bother doing this again? I tried this once, and got repaid
with insults and threats of violence. Sod that for a lark
Sizzle Flambé
Ah, is that how the great Druidic colloquies went?
The crowd gathered to hear the two sages debate. They met,
took off their cloaks, and wrestled in the mud until one
of them was half-drowned, was it? Or they stood across from
each other and screamed abuse in each others' faces until
both faces were red and covered with spittle, and the people
had covered their ears from the obscene and childish insults?
Or, dear me, did it have something to do with mutual respect
between two learned men, even if opposed on many issues? They
bore themselves with the dignity their office demanded of them,
showing honor to others as a sign of the honor they themselves
both had and deserved. Their speech shone with scholarship and
honesty and valor and worth, such that others would be proud to
quote their words generations afterwards. Alas, so quickly would
the colloquy of the two sages become abstruse and arcane beyond
the understanding of laymen, naught remains of most transcripts
but the most mystical of exchanges showing that the lore of druids
was incomprehensible to those unstudied in their lengthy schools.
Now *that*, Michael and Noinden, is what I would like to see here.
And I regret to say that "Oh yeah, so's yer ma!" will not suffice.
Noinden
Tain, to see how the Gaels behaved. It was NOT in the polite, fluffy
manner that people think the “celts” behaved. The Druid was a member
of the intellectual caste of a tribal people. The important part of
that would be TRIBAL. Call it Tribe, Clan, Tuath, whatever, it
remained that they were loyal to the tribe first and foremost.
Further. There was a position in the various kingdoms, of Satirist.
Basically a professional shit flinger as you would have it. They were
more feared than anyone else, as they could effectively remove ones
Oineach (face or status) and make ones Log n’Oinach (honor price)
worthless. Simply by some choice words.
Michael started the path he is on, and given I actually walk the path
of the warrior caste more so than the path of the Druidic (more on
that in a second) I am showing my Calmacht and Crogacht in how I am
acting to an aggressor!
Ok so many different modern groups use the term “Druid” as a title. If
you read my posting history here and in ARW you will see more often
than not I refer to myself as a NEOPAGAN Druid and Celtic
Reconstructionist. I lean heavily towards the CR bit. I am not a Druid
in the old sense. NO ONE is. I’ve not spent many years learning the
laws and lore. It’s lost. I do however work in the modern equivalent
of the caste, I am a professional Scientist in the Phrama industry.
But I would never be so presumptuous to assume or claim I am an
authentic Druid. There are none left. There are modern equivalents,
but that is not my path. My path is one of the Warrior/Noble caste. I
claim this (a) Because I am on a Scots clans line of succession for a
Chieftainship. I am low on it, but I am on it. (b) I study martial
arts, including military unarmed combat. And (c) it is the most
likely path I would have been on due to birth, in pre –Christian and
early Christian times. Druids were not hereditary, they were chosen,
and trained. A son of a Druid, was not automatically a Druid.
Thus I am acting with in my ethical frame work thanks! Like I said, I
follow a different path, it’s much stricter than “do no harm” or “do
unto others”. It’s not better, but it’s stricter.
Sizzle Flambé
> [...] I actually walk the path of the warrior caste more so than the
> path of the Druidic [....] more often than not I refer to myself as
> a NEOPAGAN Druid and Celtic Reconstructionist. [...] I am not a Druid
> in the old sense. NO ONE is. I’ve not spent many years learning the
> laws and lore. It’s lost. I do however work in the modern equivalent
> of the caste, I am a professional Scientist in the Phrama industry.
> But I would never be so presumptuous to assume or claim I am an
> authentic Druid. There are none left. There are modern equivalents,
> but that is not my path. My path is one of the Warrior/Noble caste.
> [...] Thus I am acting with in my ethical frame work thanks!
> Like I said, I follow a different path [...]
So: you aren't, you are, you aren't, you are, you aren't, you aren't?
Somebody should newgroup alt.religion.warrior-noble -- soon, please.
Meanwhile, Noinden, *as long as* you *are* participating on this
newsgroup called alt.religion.*druid*, and are indulging the facet
of your sparkling personality that you *do* refer to as "Druid",
would you kindly conduct yourself in a manner more befitting that,
and less either the Satirist or the Warror, please, to humor me,
who has done you no wrong, and has tried to be kind to you, mmmm?
And Michael, please, to assist in this endeavor, no threats at all?
As you, at least, do adhere solely to the one caste, be a shining
example of its best traits, for all to emulate, that none may mock.
Then we may hope to point to this newsgroup in future as a positive
advertisement of druidry, rather than (as at present) the gruesome
warning staked at the entrance to warn travelers of dangers ahead.
1X2Willows
> [....]
> Alas, so quickly would
> the colloquy of the two sages become abstruse and arcane beyond
> the understanding of laymen, naught remains of most transcripts
> but the most mystical of exchanges showing that the lore of druids
> was incomprehensible to those unstudied in their lengthy schools.
I wouldn't put too much 'faith' in the ole Immacallam as a key to anything.
It's as corrupted and purged of relevant pre-christian bits as the rest.
FYI... an old post on the subject:
----- Original Message -----
From: "1X2Willows"
Newsgroups: alt.religion.druid
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:37 AM
Subject: I2T
> <odub...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1182686496....@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> Nede mac Adne's response to "what is thy name?" as stated in
>> Immacallam in d� Thuarad and translated by Caitlin Matthews
>>
>> Understanding what is being said here goes a long way toward "The
>> Making of a Druid."
>>
>
> Translations are tricky business.
> That's why any druid in the making would be well advised to stay
> away from the Matthews' intentionally "neo-pagan flavoured" work
> and consult objective, impartial, purely academic sources instead.
>
> Concerning translations of I2T, that would be
> https://listserv.heanet.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A0=OLD-IRISH-L
> where a search of the archives for "immacallam", "I2T" and related
> terms including misspellings yield over a thousand hits about the
> subject and a wealth of professional translations by scholars of the
> Old Irish language who have nothing to gain and nothing to lose from
> a modern neo-pagan agenda like the Matthews' own. (eg: book sales)
>
> Dan
>
BTW the French version by Guyonvarc'h is apparently based on Stoke's
1905 or '07 English translation and later on, this same French version
got translated back to English from French for the English edition of
Guyonvarc'h's book.
pretty worthless, those merry-go-round re- and re- and re-translations
Noinden
> On Jun 11, 12:45 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So: you aren't, you are, you aren't, you are, you aren't, you aren't?
>
I am a NEOPAGAN druid. That is not an archaic Druid. Druidry is a
religion. Druid in the archaic sense was a job.
> Somebody should newgroup alt.religion.warrior-noble -- soon, please.
>
> Meanwhile, Noinden, *as long as* you *are* participating on this
> newsgroup called alt.religion.*druid*, and are indulging the facet
> of your sparkling personality that you *do* refer to as "Druid",
> would you kindly conduct yourself in a manner more befitting that,
> and less either the Satirist or the Warrior, please, to humor me,
> who has done you no wrong, and has tried to be kind to you, mmmm?
What manner would that be? I have already told you I am living by the
Na Buanna. Read Alexi Kondratiev’s essay entitled the “Celtic Values”.
THIS is what I am living by.
You are claiming to know how Druids, and the various Celtic people
acted. Without evidence. I treat strangers with hospitality, but when
someone violates that, as Michael has done. It’s no longer on the
table.
Thus far you’ve not abused the hospitality, though telling me how to
act is not really living up to that either!
> And Michael, please, to assist in this endeavor, no threats at all?
> As you, at least, do adhere solely to the one caste, be a shining
> example of its best traits, for all to emulate, that none may mock.
> Then we may hope to point to this newsgroup in future as a positive
> advertisement of druidry, rather than (as at present) the gruesome
Ø warning staked at the entrance to warn travelers of dangers ahead.
Ahh yeah just like ARW is a wonderful example of Wicca. You are doing
such a sterling job there with Sid. Acting in such an upstanding
manner.
An Coibhi Drui
What a BLUFFER you are :-)
Sizzle Flambé
> "Sizzle Flambé" <sizzle.fla...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > [....] Alas, so quickly would
> > the colloquy of the two sages become abstruse and arcane beyond
> > the understanding of laymen, naught remains of most transcripts
> > but the most mystical of exchanges showing that the lore of druids
> > was incomprehensible to those unstudied in their lengthy schools.
>
> I wouldn't put too much 'faith' in the ole Immacallam as a key to anything.
> It's as corrupted and purged of relevant pre-christian bits as the rest.
I hadn't specified any one colloquy, nor any portion of an exchange.
The commonality to which I referred is the the burial of an argument
in scholarly references, such that only an equally learned scholar
can make out what is being said -- an extreme case of what the Norse
skalds called "kenning" -- like the riddling bardic odes of Taliesin.
Such as extensive use of Ogham-type codes, where letters=months=trees.
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Really. You have no authority over me. Thus you can not tell me to do
a damned thing. QED, you once again fail to show your powers.
Noinden
Ogams/Oghams have NOTHING to do with months. This is an invention of
Robert Graves. Further more. The tree=ogam idea is a purely modern
misconception.
There are over 100 Ogam/Oghams (old Irish/Modern Irish pronounced Og-
um and Oh-em respectively) known. They include the normal alphabet,
Secret Writing Ogams, Cipher or Code Ogams, Mnemonic Lists, and
possibly Gesture languages. There is a slight inference they were used
in divination, though exactly how is hard to tell, and there isa
deingate inference that they were used for Magical Purposes.
Sizzle Flambé
> I am a NEOPAGAN druid. That is not an archaic Druid.
> Druidry is a religion. Druid in the archaic sense was a job.
Of which certain expectations were made. I indicated some,
based on the colloquies, which showed indeed scholarly debates
with mutual respect and even great gentleness, not mere spats.
Now, what expectations do you yourself have of a Druid?
> [...] You are claiming to know how Druids, and the various
> Celtic people acted. Without evidence.
I believe the colloquies provide sufficient evidence in context.
*This* is a colloquy, not a battlefield, thus the right setting.
> I treat strangers with hospitality, but when someone violates
> that, as Michael has done. It’s no longer on the table.
I entirely agree that Michael's behavior also has fallen short.
But I ask you, has he not has provocation of the severest sort
from Con and Cormac? As *you* have had from people in your own
background? Can you not both forgive each other the bad temper
from those bad experiences, and start over here with new slates?
> Thus far you’ve not abused the hospitality, though telling me
> how to act is not really living up to that either!
"would you kindly... please, to humor me, who has done you no wrong,
and has tried to be kind to you" -- this you consider "telling"?
I would have thought it "asking", and asking gently and politely.
Sizzle Flambé
> On Jun 11, 2:12 pm, Sizzle Flambé <sizzle.fla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Such as extensive use of Ogham-type codes, where letters=months=trees.
>
> Ogams/Oghams have NOTHING to do with months. This is an invention of
> Robert Graves. Further more. The tree=ogam idea is a purely modern
> misconception.
>
> There are over 100 Ogam/Oghams (old Irish/Modern Irish pronounced Og-
> um and Oh-em respectively) known. They include the normal alphabet,
> Secret Writing Ogams, Cipher or Code Ogams, Mnemonic Lists, and
> possibly Gesture languages. There is a slight inference they were used
> in divination, though exactly how is hard to tell, and there isa
> deingate inference that they were used for Magical Purposes.
In the last paragraph you refer to a large bewildering variety of
uses,
suggesting that indeed there were uses now no longer known to us
today.
Yet in the previous paragraph you insist *With Great Certitude* that
such uses *Cannot Possibly* have included what Graves said they did.
Hmm. Interesting.
Noinden
Graves admits to having invented that part. He also translated the
"battle of trees" with NO knowledge of Welsh, so he basically re wrote
it to make sense to him.
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ooops strike that, he admits to taking it off of an idea of Edward
Davies, who was one of Iolo Morgannwg's partners in the Druidic
Revival. The Revival is the source of a great amount of confusion to
Druids and the Celts.
Simply put the Irish DID have a calendar, it was nothing to do with
the Ogam. There are 20 original ogam and 5 forfeda (extra letters)...
yet Graves only some of them into this calander.
So read this.
http://www.maryjones.us/jce/celtictreecalendar.html
Then talk about the calander with me.
I know a lot about Ogam if you had not guessed ;)
Noinden
> On Jun 11, 1:56 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am a NEOPAGAN druid. That is not an archaic Druid.
> > Druidry is a religion. Druid in the archaic sense was a job.
>
> Of which certain expectations were made. I indicated some,
> based on the colloquies, which showed indeed scholarly debates
> with mutual respect and even great gentleness, not mere spats.
Oh and do name these expectations and where you think this comes from
old bean!
> Now, what expectations do you yourself have of a Druid?
To be knowledgable, to be truthful, and to be willing to learn.
> > [...] You are claiming to know how Druids, and the various
> > Celtic people acted. Without evidence.
>
> I believe the colloquies provide sufficient evidence in context.
List them. Are they primary sources?
> *This* is a colloquy, not a battlefield, thus the right setting.
No this is usenet.
> > I treat strangers with hospitality, but when someone violates
> > that, as Michael has done. It’s no longer on the table.
>
> I entirely agree that Michael's behavior also has fallen short.
> But I ask you, has he not has provocation of the severest sort
> from Con and Cormac? As *you* have had from people in your own
> background? Can you not both forgive each other the bad temper
> from those bad experiences, and start over here with new slates?
You might notice I take them to task from time to time as well… oh
wait you don’t bother to research what or why.
> > Thus far you’ve not abused the hospitality, though telling me
> > how to act is not really living up to that either!
>
> "would you kindly... please, to humor me, who has done you no wrong,
> and has tried to be kind to you" -- this you consider "telling"?
You to this point have indicated your disappointment, as if I am
supposed to live up to your standards. You have “asked” in an
authoritarian manner that we “stop”. Sorry that is pushing
hospitality.
> I would have thought it "asking", and asking gently and politely.
Polite would be researching WHY this is going on. THEN commenting.
An Coibhi Drui
Raimeis :-)
1X2Willows
"1X2Willows" wrote:
> "Sizzle Flamb�" <sizzle.fla...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>> > [....] Alas, so quickly would
>> > the colloquy of the two sages become abstruse and arcane beyond
>> > the understanding of laymen, naught remains of most transcripts
>> > but the most mystical of exchanges showing that the lore of druids
>> > was incomprehensible to those unstudied in their lengthy schools.
>>
>> I wouldn't put too much 'faith' in the ole Immacallam as a key to
>> anything. It's as corrupted and purged of relevant pre-christian bits
>> as the rest.
>
> I hadn't specified any one colloquy, nor any portion of an exchange.
Well, I2T has earned label-status so to speak as being the one "colloquy
of the two sages" and the only one at that. Let's not lose ourselves in
semantics.
> The commonality to which I referred is the the burial of an argument
> in scholarly references, such that only an equally learned scholar
> can make out what is being said
I2T is a good example for that, agreed, however...
There is no indication in there whatsoever for it being more than an example
of adherence to local customs of interaction between "learned men" in
general. Come to think of it, the same still applies today. Calling N�de and
Ferchertne's interaction "typical druidic behaviour" across the board (of
Celtic tribal society) is an assumption already, which doesn't stand the
test of scientific inquiry.
> -- an extreme case of what the Norse skalds called "kenning" -- like the
> riddling bardic odes of Taliesin. Such as extensive use of Ogham-type
> codes, where letters=months=trees.
I'm not sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate?
An Coibhi Drui
Noinden
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Translation: It is above Michaels head, QED he will try to derail this
with nonsense.
Nothing new there really.
An Coibhi Drui
Ah, Alexei Kondratiev ! I wrote the blurb published on the back cover
of his really excellent book, | T he Apple Branch " at the request of
the publishers, Collins of Cork ( Con Collins) . I loved to be among
the first to read that book from the original typescripts sent to me
personally by the publishers. BTW I also was amongst the first to read
the typescript of Philip Carr Gomm's book, " The Druid Renaissance "
- sent to me personally by Philip the winter before it was published
for my criticism. Philip subsequently adopted and adapted some of my
ideas in his published book. You see , we are really all old friends,
and if you were here, Noinden, I would uncork the best poitin for you,
Cheers, Michael.
PS: As Searles confirms, I have contributed hugely to Druidry on this
newsgroup - when I was allowed to so do :-)
theardri
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike old chap. I had a private discussion with Phillip Carr-Gomm last
year. He refuted that you had anything to do with "The Druid
Renaissance". Tell you what I will post your comment on the Imbas list
(of which you have been banned) and ask Alexei to confirm this.
Sizzle Flambé
>>> The tree=ogam idea is a purely modern misconception.
If not *all* at least eight of the letter-names are *unambiguously*
tree-names -- Birch, Alder, Willow, Oak, Hazel, Ash, Yew -- without
any doubt or question from the oldest times. The belief that *all*
Ogham letters were trees was stronger in the Middle Ages, and only
now in modern times is challenged by other ideas, which seems quite
the reverse of what you are saying. Unless you have mistyped a bit?
An Coibhi Drui
An Coibhi Drui
A downright dirty lie !!!
I know nothing of this Imbas, either, probably some jumped-up wiccan
crew !!!
Cheers,
Michael.
theardri
wrote:
> I know nothing of this Imbas, either,
Quoted for truth :)
Yep old bean Imbas has never touched you :) No fire in the mind for
you :)
1X2Willows
>
> But I ask you, has he not has provocation of the severest sort
> from Con and Cormac?
As far as I am concerned, as a fairly long time 'regular' of ARD...
It was McGrath who showed up in '07 and immediately started
raggin' on this Con character; not the other way around.
- forgetting all the time, that nobody in here gives a toss about
either one of them when all is said and done.
Case in point: This newest thread called "The Peace of Tara".
Mikey won't ever stop, as long as he can't get kicked off the 'board'.
Better get used to it.
An Coibhi Drui
( A downright dirty lie by you, Noey Boy, not by Philip - Philip and I
collaborated massively between 1994 and 1997 ) .
Cheers,
Michael.
PS: You have been talking to NO Irish Druids, and only a couple of
malcontents and wiccans like yourself here and in England - and btw
you lied that you were in Kilkenny recently, in fact you have never
been in Ireland in your life :-)
All the most filthy dirty lies and black propaganda from you, Noey Boy
- just as you employed against the Milwaukee Pagans ntil they funged
you up the hole, Wicky Boy :-)
( We all know of your 'Dark' background in NZ, no longer any welcome
for you there either :-)
Cheers,
Michael.
Sizzle Flambé
> > -- an extreme case of what the Norse skalds called "kenning"
> > -- like the riddling bardic odes of Taliesin. Such as
> > extensive use of Ogham-type codes, where letters=months=trees.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate?
I will let Wikipedia do the elaboration for me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%ADatharogam
If I am speaking of the letter B, I may veil my meaning in the
thinnest gauze by speaking of birch, but what if I speak of
a withered foot with fine hair, or of the greyest of skin,
or of the beauty of the eyebrow? Will laymen understand me?
Sizzle Flambé
>>> Ogams/Oghams have NOTHING to do with months.
>>> This is an invention of Robert Graves.
>
> Graves admits to having invented that part.
He could not have. It antedates his birth.
I see you acknowledge that. So this is concluded.
1X2Willows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FWIW... I personally go by
http://downloads.euro-celts.org/pdf/stifter(altkeltisch).pdf (Ill. 1.2)
when it comes to all matters involving the origin and time-line of Ogam.
Searles will definitely have a more educated opinion on the subject,
as this is his current life's work, so to speak.
An Coibhi Drui
PROOF : My blurb published on the back cover of The Apple Branch by
Alexei Kondratiev is in fact quoted in the archives of the OBOD
website, Noinden you no-good lying black propagandist !
Anybody may go there and see for themselves.
I have put up with Lies, Cowardice and Stupidity like this for
years :-)
Cheers,
Michael.
Noinden
No what I said is that trees are not the only correspondences. Indeed
the trees invovled are somewhat ambiguous to begin with in many cases.
Here are three who’s name has nothing to do with trees.
Third Aicme fourth few
Straif ( pronounced strahf), it’s name means “sulphur” which if memory
serves (and I am only a lowly chemist) is not any tree that I know
of.
Third Aicme third few: n’Geadal (pronounced na-tal) it’s name means
either charm or wounds.
Finally my favorite
Second Aicme first few: Uath (pronounced oo-ah), it’s name means fear
or horror.
Now for ones that have several tree’s associated with them (there are
at least TWO lists of correspondences in the 100 or so Ogams known)
Lus can be either elm or rowan.
Nin is either ash or nettle
Ceirt can be holly, rowan (oh look we have seen this already), aspen
or apple
Etc
Lets return to the comment of “at least 8” can be unambiguously
associated with tree names.
That is either 40% ( 8/20 x100/1) or 32% (8/25 x 100/1) depending if
one chooses to include the forfeda (fifth aicme) into the equation.
Now I only minored in statistics, so I might be wrong, but that is not
to my mind a majority.
The Medieval monks, who wrote the Auraucept Na N-Eces (the Scholars
Primer) knew full well that the correspondences were many. However
later “scholars” decided to stick with trees. Graves made this “common
knowledge” however he got it wrong. The trees were never associated
with months, or the Zodiac like he said. The months were clearly
defined. Indeed the month of May has what name in Irish??
An Coibhi Drui
I see that your fellow LIAR Danny Boy has predictably joined in to
back your latest outrageous attack on me, Noey Boy :-)
Lying that I originally picked on HMVIS, but nobody is going to
swallow that awesome, shocking and horrendous LIE, Danny Boy :-)
Shows whose side you're really on, Felber :-)
Cheers,
Michael
Noinden
>
> - Show quoted text -
On Jun 11, 3:54 pm, An Coibhi Drui <PhotographerOfKilke...@gmail.com>
He says otherwise.
> Cheers,
> Michael.
>
> PS: You have been talking to NO Irish Druids, and only a couple of
> malcontents and wiccans like yourself here and in England - and btw
> you lied that you were in Kilkenny recently, in fact you have never
> been in Ireland in your life :-)
Really! How can you tell I have never been to Eire old chap?
> All the most filthy dirty lies and black propaganda from you, Noey Boy
> - just as you employed against the Milwaukee Pagans ntil they funged
> you up the hole, Wicky Boy :-)
Oh really?
> ( We all know of your 'Dark' background in NZ, no longer any welcome
> for you there either :-)
My Michael you seem to have an issue with people who are “dark”. Your
white sheet is showing!
I returned to New Zealand at Christmas, to visit my Family.
So go on try again. I’ve emailed Alexei. It seems you are not quoted
on the Apple branch anymore, and persona non gratis
Noinden
No it is NOT concluded. Read the site. Read the history.
The "Celtic Tree Calander" is modern
Noinden
Ogam was not for writting down novels or for the common person! I
would note if I was talking about how to make 2,3-O-Isopropylidene-5-O-
TBDMS-lyxonolactone very few of you would know what that was, let
alone how I make it.
Sizzle Flambé
> On Jun 11, 2:41 pm, Sizzle Flambé <sizzle.fla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jun 11, 1:56 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I am a NEOPAGAN druid. That is not an archaic Druid.
> > > Druidry is a religion. Druid in the archaic sense was a job.
>
> > Of which certain expectations were made. I indicated some,
> > based on the colloquies, which showed indeed scholarly debates
> > with mutual respect and even great gentleness, not mere spats.
>
I did, and indeed you saw and replied to it.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.druid/msg/e7224ed27d94b746
1X2Willows insists I *must* mean the ONE Colloquy of the Two Sages,
so I suppose I must. Côf a lithr.... Have you perused that one, then?
Sizzle Flambé
Which was very much my point. In this context, "Ogham" *means*
"code" or "kenning", *means* speaking of one thing in other terms.
These Briatharogaim, "word oghams", were kennings of letter-names.
But absolutely *everything* could be spoken of kenningly, oghamly.
(The classic example in Norse verse is to refer to a boat as a
"steed that strides / the whales' way" -- the latter being in turn
a kenning for the sea, thus one kenning is nested inside another.)
So your outraged insistence that somehow months were sacrosanct,
immune from ever being encoded, done Ogham, fails to persuade me.
Graves may indeed have got-it-all-wrong, bungled it completely,
mistaken lunar for solar and Samhain for Christmas or whatever,
but, you know, I was referring to letters=months=trees, not to
Graves's particular system as the *One True Way*, and you were
the one who brought him up in the first place, so: Straw Man?
Sizzle Flambé
The *specific* Celtic Tree Calendar *following Graves's design*
is modern. But that's like saying "The Calendar" is modern --
because the current Gregorian calendar we have, with the current
leap year schedule and all, is modern -- therefore they didn't
have *months* back in Ye Olde Tymes. That's a basic fallacy.
And yes, before Graves was a 19th century reference which is
still modern, just older than Graves. The point I am making
to you, Noinden, is that there *were* months long, long before
Graves or Davies ever came on the scene. And everything, just
everything, from places to famous people to notable events to
hours of the day to anything one might want to communicate can
and will be and has been encoded when people want to speak to
each other without letting outsiders know their business. And
that attitude fairly describes the Druids, wouldn't you say?
So, yes, there were Oghams for the months. Had to have been.
An Coibhi Drui
Excellent fair, Sizzle -
Noinden is making very heavy weather of keeping up with you -
he missed several of your subtle meanings :-)
Cheers,
Michael.
Dana
"theardri" <thea...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f175b689-340e-4fba...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Ahh yeah just like ARW is a wonderful example of Wicca. You are doing
> > such a sterling job there with Sid. Acting in such an upstanding
> > manner.
>
> Ah, Alexei Kondratiev ! I wrote the blurb published on the back cover
> of his really excellent book, | T he Apple Branch " at the request of
> the publishers, Collins of Cork ( Con Collins) . I loved to be among
> the first to read that book from the original typescripts sent to me
> personally by the publishers. BTW I also was amongst the first to read
> the typescript of Philip Carr Gomm's book, " The Druid Renaissance "
> - sent to me personally by Philip the winter before it was published
> for my criticism. Philip subsequently adopted and adapted some of my
> ideas in his published book. You see , we are really all old friends,
> and if you were here, Noinden, I would uncork the best poitin for you,
> Cheers, Michael.
>
> PS: As Searles confirms, I have contributed hugely to Druidry on this
> newsgroup - when I was allowed to so do :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike old chap. I had a private discussion with Phillip Carr-Gomm last
year. He refuted that you had anything to do with "The Druid
Renaissance". Tell you what I will post your comment on the Imbas list
(of which you have been banned) and ask Alexei to confirm this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IIRC, this did get brought up several years ago. According to what I
remember, Alexei said his publisher solicited commentary from a supposed
"Druid authority" completely without Alexei's knowledge or permission, one
of a number of nasty such tricks they pulled on him, including completely
changing the title and using cheesy cover art. Alexei was absolutely
appalled when he found out, but it was too late to do anything. Suffice to
say that the new addition coming out will not include McKook's commentary.
But by all means, check with Alexei anyway--I may have misremembered some
details and IMBAS could definitely use the traffic.
An Coibhi Drui
> "theardri" <thear...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f175b689-340e-4fba...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 3:37 pm, An Coibhi Drui <PhotographerOfKilke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 6:56 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Yes, we all believe your twisted version Mrs. Dan, don't we botys and
girls , heh heh heh.
An Coibhi Drui
>
> news:f175b689-340e-4fba...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 3:37 pm, An Coibhi Drui <PhotographerOfKilke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 6:56 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
' McKook', we observe your partiality, Mrs. Unkonon Dan :-)
Sticks and stones etc...
So Alexei did not see a final proof until the book was in the shops,
Mrs. Dan ?
How splendid a fabrication of your nasty little 'mind' -
please tell us more ...
Cheers,
Michael.
NB: A Spoofer tells a Liar to check it out, Haw Haw Haw .
An Coibhi Drui
>
> news:f175b689-340e-4fba...@w35g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 11, 3:37 pm, An Coibhi Drui <PhotographerOfKilke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 6:56 pm, Noinden <noin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Tell that to the Horse Marines. Mrs. Dan :-)
( IMBAS ? Are they related to HMVIS ? Haw Haw Haw .
Cheers,
|Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
IMBAS, whoever they are they would be advised to crave my permission
should they wish to operate in Ireland. Those denied my permission,
for good reason, have always failed in Ireland and will continue to do
so - and I have much influence and many dear friends in top British
Druid circles too, that simply dements the likes of Dan, Mrs. Dan,
Noinden and their little club, with frenzied envy .
Cheers,
Michael.
PS: Nothing like a frenzied wiccan !
Stacey Weinberger
Collins Press edition. Who will be publishing the new edition, do you know?