You don't even have to believe in God !
An Coibhi Drui
for most people, it's even a fashion statement for others - ever see
the Easter Fashion Parade at the churches ? But really the Church
can't be done without when it comes to marriages in Church which are
indeed viewed by couples as ' Magical' , and, no, despite the few
services offered by indivuals, a couple of Druids etc., it's not
considered the same thing at all .
And Catholic priests are unsurpassed when it comes to burying you in
full honours, they're fabulous at oratory, they give you a really
stylish send-off .
Then there are the child growing up traditional feast days, when the
kids get all dressed up, and get all that money - I've met kids as a
photographer with a couple of thousand Euro on them from loving
relations -
Now how the Hell can paganism compare with all that ?
It has always been my understanding that Druidry is not a church and
never was, and looking at the churches I hope it never will be !
Wars through the centuries convince me that it should not be a '
religion' either -
and looking in here, it is definitely not recommended as a ' way of
life ' .
Philosophy, maybe ...
Cheers,
Michael .
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
* The ' average ' a kid of 12 gets now in Ireland for their
Confirmation Day os a thousand ERuro, some go as high as seven
thousand Euro !!!
A First Communion kid gets an average of 500 Euro, going up to 3000 .
BTW This is unknown and does not happen in the Protestant churches,
where, inter alia, photographers may not use flash , whereas in most
Catholic churches we can turn the altar itself into a studio , the
priests and people love it, the bishops pose with every single family
and chat with them about everything and anything, huge feasrs are
arranged in the adjoining church halls - and then they all adjourn to
hotels and pubs all over the place , there's quiye simply nothing to
beat these high points of the year amongst the people - Bishops
actually go to the bother of posing families all around them, I know
one bishop who is so professional at it that he should have been a
photographer !!!
Then you have the Father Trendy types who steal the hearts of the
women away with dazzling smiles during their church performances, with
soft lovely voices - Hollywood would love them as actors, then the
music with guitars, and even drums and bohrans on the altar - where
else would you get it ???
And all for free !
Cheers,
Michael .
An Coibhi Drui
And at the top you now have respected prelates like the Archbishop of
Dublin Diarmuid Martin actually demanding publicly that more and more
paedophile priesrs be prosecuted by the Garda, throwing open the
entire documentaion of his Archdiocese to the Garda, AND not only
priests, but Bishops and Archbishops are completely accessible
personally to the public .
The Catholic Church has seen a RISE in its membership here of a half a
million since 2002 ( Govt. Census ) - with nearly a thousand more
Catholic priests arriving in here too from Poland ( hysterical
Catholics ! ) and Eastern Europe, and all these incoming priests are
now dispersed to parishes right across Ireland to minister to the
Irish, and everybody else, too . Big placards re services etc are now
erected in Polish outside a lot of Irish Catholic churches - the Poles
are massive church-goers ( unlike the Irish ! ) .
Through all of this, with some dedicated assistants, I have still
managed to keep Druidry at least visible on Ireland , with its head
above water, and with a great and good reputation too. It has been,
and it is, tough hard work all along, especially as those interested
in Druidry here seem to come and go like tourists - that's why Anrai
in Dublin has a rule , when anybody approaches him about being Druids,
" Come back to me in two years time if you're still interested ! " ,
as enormous personal energy and human resources can otherwise be
expended on the tourists !
But, basically here in Ireland all you can do is to maintain a Druid
presence, the real Druid country is England ( not Wales ! ) where
there is now reputed to be a half million pagans, something like 17
Druid Orders, all functioning, with thousands of Druids and pilgrims -
and they are professional and good, even great at their job too.
Ireland is now but a Druid frontier in comparison !
Cheers,
Michael .
stonehengeio
lol
Some would try and make druidry a religion and try to mimic churches
but,
they are in the minority now, however 10yrs ago they were not.
stonehengeio
training" druids are over, and that those continuing to teach groups
that way will find life getting very difficult.
He suggests that as so much information is available, teaching will
cease to be the primary focus and be replaced by being "tested" in the
Public arena.
That should put the cat amongst the pigeons,lol, and i can just see
dan trying to claim he is a druid in front of 15000 Stonehengers and
getting them to agree.GriN.
Dana
> I spoke with friend who tells me that the old way of "educating and
> training" druids are over, and that those continuing to teach groups
> that way will find life getting very difficult.
> He suggests that as so much information is available, teaching will
> cease to be the primary focus and be replaced by being "tested" in the
> Public arena.
> That should put the cat amongst the pigeons,lol, and i can just see
> dan trying to claim he is a druid in front of 15000 Stonehengers and
> getting them to agree.GriN.
>
>
Dan has never claimed to be a Druid, here or anywhere else. If you and
McGrath weren't so obsessed with titles and status, you would have noticed
that.
The various groups and books have never been more than a starting point.
The more honest ones actually say so. Anyone with a clue knew it already.
Looks like there are no pigeons for your cat after all. What a shame.
An Coibhi Drui
I am not obsessed with titles, I am the an Office holder, elected to
such.
Michael .
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
No Irish person, born and resident in reland, has ever objected. most
agree - I do not see what our Irish situation has got to do with a
sock resident in Western America, unelected, not speaking or asked to
speak on behalf of anybody except Felber :-)
Cheers,
Michael.
stonehengeio
society"(legal term), we also have a number of officers who we are
required to have by law.
Caretaker is not a title it is an office.
Dana
the proven liar and fraud McGrath, but of the Stones and the Land.
stonehengeio
It earns no money and i have no more rights at Stonehenge than you
would.
If you remember my nickname is Mum and my work promoting equitable
access for all at Stonehenge
is very well known.
perhaps i will post the 120 odd words we presented to e/h on behalf of
all the people of these islands.
then you can see the sort of manipulation and exploitation I am into.
stonehengeio
We propose that over the period of the Summer Solstice the public be
allowed free and equitable access into Stonehenge and it's surrounding
landscape. This would enable people to freely attend as are their
needs and customs, the Sunrise, Midday, the Sunset and the Solstice.
Current overcrowding and driver safety problems are caused by the
increasing popularity of the present open access and the decision to
end access early on Solstice morning. We believe these problems can be
resolved in the best interests of everyone by extending the access
period to cover the whole of Midsummer's Day.
We invite English Heritage and other interested parties to support
this Proposal in principle and look forward to working with them to
further its aims.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These words made e/h's position of intransigence unjustifiable.
After many years of informal meetings protesting lack of access and
space, the meetings will now be official minuted ones with the above
recognized as the agenda.
We have yet to get an official answer to the proposal but that is
expected this December
As they are wording there official reply.
However it IS now on the agenda where it will stay until sorted.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kent
> cut and pasted from stonehengers-
>
> We propose that over the period of the Summer Solstice the public be
> allowed free and equitable access into Stonehenge and it's surrounding
> landscape. This would enable people to freely attend as are their
> needs and customs, the Sunrise, Midday, the Sunset and the Solstice.
>
> Current overcrowding and driver safety problems are caused by the
> increasing popularity of the present open access and the decision to
> end access early on Solstice morning. We believe these problems can be
> resolved in the best interests of everyone by extending the access
> period to cover the whole of Midsummer's Day.
>
> We invite English Heritage and other interested parties to support
> this Proposal in principle and look forward to working with them to
> further its aims.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> These words made e/h's position of intransigence unjustifiable.
> After many years of informal meetings protesting lack of access and
> space, the meetings will now be official minuted ones with the above
> recognized as the agenda.
> We have yet to get an official answer to the proposal but that is
> expected this December
> As they are wording there official reply.
> However it IS now on the agenda where it will stay until sorted.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, okay, I get it now...so, "caretaker" is a British term for
"groupie"! you're not even a Park Ranger, just some schmoe with no
real job who has appointed himself as Stonehenge's "Caretaker"...makes
total sense now as to why you and McNutz get along so well, you're
both loopy!
1X2Willows
> I spoke with friend who tells me that the old way of "educating and
> training" druids are over, and that those continuing to teach groups
> that way will find life getting very difficult.
> He suggests that as so much information is available, teaching will
> cease to be the primary focus and be replaced by being "tested" in the
> Public arena.
> That should put the cat amongst the pigeons,lol, and i can just see
> dan trying to claim he is a druid in front of 15000 Stonehengers and
> getting them to agree.GriN.
>
>
> stonehengeio wrote:
>> Your right about mainland Briton, druids get underfoot and
>> everywhere lol
>> Some would try and make druidry a religion and try to mimic churches
>> but, they are in the minority now, however 10yrs ago they were not.
Go on and parrot your silly ad-hom all you like. This office you claim
to hold is a plain civic one and whatever comes out of those "Orders"
you mention doesn't go beyond the activities of a mundane social club
either. Druidry... where besides ceremonial drahmah, ruffling of robes
and waving of hands while dressed in quite amusing Egyptian drag?
ROFL!
1X2Willows
> cut and pasted from stonehengers-
>
> We propose that over the period of the Summer Solstice the public be
> allowed free and equitable access into Stonehenge and it's surrounding
> landscape. This would enable people to freely attend as are their
> needs and customs, the Sunrise, Midday, the Sunset and the Solstice.
>
> Current overcrowding and driver safety problems are caused by the
> increasing popularity of the present open access and the decision to
> end access early on Solstice morning. We believe these problems can be
> resolved in the best interests of everyone by extending the access
> period to cover the whole of Midsummer's Day.
>
> We invite English Heritage and other interested parties to support
> this Proposal in principle and look forward to working with them to
> further its aims.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> These words made e/h's position of intransigence unjustifiable.
> After many years of informal meetings protesting lack of access and
> space, the meetings will now be official minuted ones with the above
> recognized as the agenda.
> We have yet to get an official answer to the proposal but that is
> expected this December
> As they are wording there official reply.
> However it IS now on the agenda where it will stay until sorted.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would they even owe you an "official reply" you fruitloop?
You're the one who keeps pointing out you're not a member of this
and that acknowleged group, affiliated with no-one but just some
"benevolent grey authority" in the shadows, ey?
Poser.
Byrne.M.James
> stonehengeio wrote:
> > cut and pasted from stonehengers-
>
> > We propose that over the period of the Summer Solstice the public be
> > allowed free and equitable access into Stonehenge and it's surrounding
> > landscape. This would enable people to freely attend as are their
> > needs and customs, the Sunrise, Midday, the Sunset and the Solstice.
>
> > Current overcrowding and driver safety problems are caused by the
> > increasing popularity of the present open access and the decision to
> > end access early on Solstice morning. We believe these problems can be
> > resolved in the best interests of everyone by extending the access
> > period to cover the whole of Midsummer's Day.
>
> > We invite English Heritage and other interested parties to support
> > this Proposal in principle and look forward to working with them to
> > further its aims.
>
> > These words made e/h's position of intransigence unjustifiable.
> > After many years of informal meetings protesting lack of access and
> > space, the meetings will now be official minuted ones with the above
> > recognized as the agenda.
> > We have yet to get an official answer to the proposal but that is
> > expected this December
> > As they are wording there official reply.
> > However it IS now on the agenda where it will stay until sorted.
>
> Why would they even owe you an "official reply" you fruitloop?
> You're the one who keeps pointing out you're not a member of this
> and that acknowleged group, affiliated with no-one but just some
> "benevolent grey authority" in the shadows, ey?
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Lads I was reading over on another forum, where a poster living near
Hallstatt who put up a map of 'celtic' migration in europe to
illustrate where the cultures come from had to apologise for being
'Eurocentric'. Am I seeing the same thing on here with the criticism
of Michael and Stonehengio?
Do you guys really expect people here to apologise for the traditions
they belong to just cos they dont match up with yours? Do you expect
them not to be proud of their place in those traditions? Really lads I
know the internet is 90% populated by English Speaking people in
America but its not private property.
James
An Coibhi Drui
Dan's native language is Kraut , Minion's native language is Kiwi, as
two foreign imports into the States they are not typical of , and do
certainly not represent Americans who have an altogether more fair,
decent and normal attitude to the peoples of Ireland and Britain. I
know because I have dealt personally with Americans, especially
leaders of American Druidry such as Tony Taylor of The Henge of
Keltria - amd of course we all chat with Searles, Lady North Pole is
your delightful American eccentric , Akins is a nice fellow too.
Stonehengio is your ordinary everyday Englishman who tries to be fair
to everybody and who insists that his government be fair to everybody
too. He is not a Park Ranger as Stonehenge is not a park, it's a plain
on which sits a national monument . The fact that he acts voluntary,
and not on salary, is in the fine tradition of the British Isles.
Generally speaking, British governments traditionally stand for the
opposite to what the English people stand for, the Iraq War being the
biggest row on recent years between the British Government and the
English people - starvation-rate social welfare rates being another !
( 64 Euro a week being the present British social welfare rate that
the unemployed workers of Britain are expected to starve on - Irish
rates being over three times more ! ) .
That's why we have all the thousands of welfare tourists from the rest
of Europe here at the moment, but we're glad to do all we can for them
through they have never contributed to the Irish economy, but we
reckon we owe it to the British here, who were good to us for so long
throughout the 20th century ) . And, no, I am not on the Dole, though
I was , briefly, 24 years ago when I fell on hard times for a year
back then , so I know what it's like , and appreciate that we must
look after the most vulnerable in society .
In my formative years I spent years in England and thus I know what a
lovely country and a fabulous people the British are, especially the
Scousers of Liverpool and the Cockneys of London, the Highland Jocks
and the Taffees too. I still feel that parts of London are the most
delightful places you could live in the world, especially Covent
Garden - Fleet Street - The Strand, Camden Town, Shepherds Bush-
Hammersmith - and, (Stacey) , the wealthy Jewish quarter of Golders
Green , which you simply must visit someday !
( We don't have any Jewish Quarter in any of our Irish cities or towns
- unfortunately for Ireland and our economy we never had enough Jewish
people living here, there's an open invitation ! ) .
( That's why I, and the vast majority of the Irish People absolutely
rebelled in horror and outrage against the IRA when they started their
bombing campaign in England ! , they lost more support in Ireland and
amongst Irish-Americans over that , that's a big reason I decided to
organise, announce and celebrate the Peace of Tara on the old hill
back in 1997 ) .
AND, Dan & Minion, the Irish-Americans are looked upon by us as part
of Ireland, no matter how ' shamrocky' they are , they quite
rightfully look on themselves too as part of Ireland, and that's
something you will get to learn, and come up against too, if you carry
on misbehaving yourselves and denigrating Ireland, the Irish, their
religion and Irish Druidry here !
Cheers,
Michael .
root
AFAIK it's a focus group called the 'Round Table', various intersted
parties such as English Heritage, Wiltshire Police, Amesbury Council
and others representing the public who want free access to Stonehenge
for the midsummer solstice.
At the end of the day it is English Heritage and the Police that have
the authority over access to the site, the focus group was set up in
response to a large enough request from would be midsummer revellers
to open the site, instead of taking the old confrontational approach,
this more open and inclusive approach was developed, so all parties
can explain their views and discuss all the issues and potential
problems involved in allowing so many people free access to the world
heritage site.
As far as I can tell, stonehengio is a representative or consultant to
a representative on this focus group.
golwg
Matthew
An Coibhi Drui
Yes, not forgetting the central role played by the Council of British
Druid Orders, CoBDO, over twenty years or more - especially Rollo
Maughfling, the perennial Stonehenge Officer of CoBDO, recognosed by
English Heritage . And even before Rollo, as far back as the early
1980's, my other great personal friend, Sid Rawle - not to forget
Wally Hope either , and all the others back along who fought pitched
battles on the plains of Stonehenge for access- battles , especially
under Arthur, that the Authorities know that they could face again,
so, no, the Round Table is no willing gift of the British Government -
the unrest almost broke onto the streets of London within the last few
years, the Government is plainly worried, and Arthur, Rollo, Mum and
CoBDO and our other spokespersons around the table are quite right to
keep pressing that advantage home ! Fair dues to them all.
Michael,
Honoured Associate, CoBDO .
( So worried, that at one stage, two British Army regiments were
marched up and held in reserve, on alert, to be called in at a moments
notice - no government seeking re-election wants THAT again !!! ) .
stonehengeio
I am both a consultant to e/h and a member of what is called the e/h
round table focus group.
But as i have said, the R/T meetings are to be upgraded.
As it happens i was just chatting to peter carson who runs Stonehenge
about the winter solstice
and which sunrise we will be attending 21st or 22nd.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
That's the beauty of the Round Table Focus Group, you have so many
experts, and so many deputies to call up, to keep going while our
Principals get sleep and refreshment, to keep e/h on their toes night
and day, keep it up, keep changing the shift ( like detectives do in
questioning a serious suspect ! ) , that way have our people fresh as
daisies in the Spring all the time - and give them our very best
wishes from Ireland for every success !
( Sid Rawle told me years ago that the best damned warriors they had
in The Battle of the Beanfield were the Irish contingent, that he and
Wally launched in headlong assault on the Riot Police, at a critical
moment in the battle to give them time to recover and get their
wounded off the Stonehenge Plain - I had recruited the eight founders
of that Irish Brigade to Sid ten years earlier in Chalk Farm Hippy
Valley, London ! ) .
They were eight of the hardest Irish Navvies from Camden Town !
( They were so used to wearing hobnailed boots that they couldn't wear
ordinary shoes anymore , they split the arses of the Riot Police that
glorious day in the history of modern England - tell the Round Table
about that, though a few of them would know & remember ( certainly the
Riot Police do, they're still feeling their arses sorrowfully ) - and
we're not finished yet ! ) .
Cheers,
Michael
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
( Steel caps , by the way ! )
An Coibhi Drui
Now, must get to the Bank - that Black Cat is costing me a fortune,
Haw Haw Haw !
stonehengeio
only physical resistance on that day happened AT Stonehenge as a few
thousand walkers actually made the stones during the brutal beatings
given out by the police at the bean field.
Those walkers including many Irish surprised the police charge by not
running away but towards them,(That freaked the police right out lol)
You could say the riot squad "Bounced off" the oncoming crowd and
legged it at least 4 times after being repeatedly repulsed.
However they did finally got a good charge in and we spread out all
over the Plain, at that point the police retreated behind the e/h
fence as they had no chance of arresting anyone.
I also remember a biker who crashed through the police lines on his
bike at about 60mph, straight through them he went scattering them, he
then turned around and came back scattering the remaining police line.
What a Day.
However, now days we all concentrate on NON violent civil
disobedience, and we reject using violence as tool to get our own
way.
This is the lesson we are teaching the police, and oddly enough they
are considering it as they are still in the dog house over Ian
Tomlinson, an innocent member of the public going home from work who
was Killed by the police on national tv.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beanfield
( There are several other accounts and references, indeed you can
assemble the entire story of The Battle of the Beanfield across the
net - Arthur's book is a good update of the situation a couple of
years back, but I feel that somebody, perhaps with you Stonehengio as
editor, should assemble the entire story of the modern Battle For
Stonehenge from about 1984 to the present time in book form, to be
preserved, and sold for funds - Rollo is particularly good at this as
he showed by his delighful editions of Druidlore ( collectors items -
I have them all - especially the Special Irish Edition which I
contributed too ), also Arthur now has the experience as a
professional author |:
The Trials of Arthur, by Arthur Pendragon & C.J. Stone, Harper
Collins , paperback, absolutely rivetting reading, enjoyable, I
couldn't recommend a better book introduction to English Druidry and
the personalities involved in active frontline English Druidry
today .
Beautifully written, inspirational - that book has got meat too .
Cheers,
Michael .
1X2Willows
>
> Lads I was reading over on another forum, where a poster living near
> Hallstatt who put up a map of 'celtic' migration in europe to
> illustrate where the cultures come from had to apologise for being
> 'Eurocentric'. Am I seeing the same thing on here with the criticism
> of Michael and Stonehengio?
You bet!
Both origin theories are equally idiotic.
> Do you guys really expect people here to apologise for the traditions
> they belong to just cos they dont match up with yours? Do you expect
> them not to be proud of their place in those traditions? Really lads I
> know the internet is 90% populated by English Speaking people in
> America but its not private property.
>
> James
huh?
1X2Willows
>
> Dan's native language is Kraut ,
If mine is German, yours is English
:-)
1X2Willows
>
> AFAIK it's a focus group called the 'Round Table', various intersted
> parties such as English Heritage, Wiltshire Police, Amesbury Council
> and others representing the public who want free access to Stonehenge
> for the midsummer solstice.
>
> At the end of the day it is English Heritage and the Police that have
> the authority over access to the site, the focus group was set up in
> response to a large enough request from would be midsummer revellers
> to open the site, instead of taking the old confrontational approach,
> this more open and inclusive approach was developed, so all parties
> can explain their views and discuss all the issues and potential
> problems involved in allowing so many people free access to the world
> heritage site.
>
> As far as I can tell, stonehengio is a representative or consultant to
> a representative on this focus group.
>
> golwg
>
> Matthew
That was informative.
Thank you root
1X2Willows
and "Celtic Cross" tattoos along with the occasional swastika I bet
1X2Willows
>
> Now, must get to the Bank - that Black Cat is costing me a fortune,
> Haw Haw Haw !
so we heard
Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
To be a member of the Catholic Church in Ireland !!! It's ' tribal'
Sorta Kinda.
Cept you don't understand and are not one.
We took the Church away from ROME.
The First NONE ROMAN Pope was IRISH.
We are in fact the Zealots of the Ante Church.
I am a descendant of the Fishman <x my Ancestors
are listed in the Bible, Gen. 25:2, Numbers 13:16,. . . . . .
But that is not the "ROMAN CHURCH"!!!!
That is Mahayana.
The House of the Green Buddha of Tara, the Dol Lamha,
My Ancestors Built the Taj!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Dark Taj was the Viewing Ponds for the People.
for most people, it's even a fashion statement for others - ever see
the Easter Fashion Parade at the churches ?
To your Kind, ever pray before a candle in a closet, or you gotta
dance with the masses round a bon fire.
But really the ChurchYes it Can, Captain of a Ship or a Justice of the Peace.
can't be done without when it comes to marriages
in Church which are
indeed viewed by couples as ' Magical' ,
In God the Union is.
What God has Joined together, Let No Man Put Asunder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who are you to judge me for my Partner and Help or Life Mate.
You have you way I have Mine.
Sethians are as much a part of the body as Cainites.
and, no, despite the few
services offered by indivuals, a couple of Druids etc., it's not
considered the same thing at all .
It Is before God.
And Catholic priests are unsurpassed when it comes to burying you in
full honours, they're fabulous at oratory, they give you a really
stylish send-off .
Beats a Protestant trying to save the audiences souls.
Then there are the child growing up traditional feast days, when the
kids get all dressed up, and get all that money - I've met kids as a
photographer with a couple of thousand Euro on them from loving
relations -Now how the Hell can paganism compare with all that ?
Money is the Root of All Evil!!!!!!!!!!
It has always been my understanding that Druidry is not a church and
never was, and looking at the churches I hope it never will be !Wars through the centuries convince me that it should not be a '
religion' either -and looking in here, it is definitely not recommended as a ' way of
life ' .
Then Go Away!
Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
> On Nov 10, 10:08 pm, An Coibhi Drui <photographerofkilke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > To be a member of the Catholic Church in Ireland !!!� It's ' tribal'
> > for most people, it's even a fashion statement for others - ever see
> > the Easter Fashion Parade at the churches ?� But really the Church
> > can't be done without when it comes to marriages in Church which are
> > indeed viewed by couples as ' Magical' , and, no, despite the few
> > services offered by indivuals, a couple of Druids etc., it's not
> > considered the same thing at all .
> >
> > And Catholic priests are unsurpassed when it comes to burying you in
> > full honours, they're fabulous at oratory, they give you a really
> > stylish send-off .
> >
> > Then there are the child growing up traditional feast days, when the
> > kids get all dressed up, and get all that money - I've met kids as a
> > photographer with a couple of thousand Euro on them from loving
> > relations� -
> >
> > Now how the Hell can paganism compare with all that ?
> >
> > It has always been my understanding that Druidry is not a church and
> > never was, and looking at the churches I hope it never will be !
> >
> > Wars through the centuries convince me that it should not be a '
> > religion' either -
> >
> > and looking in here, it is definitely not recommended as a ' way of
> > life '� .
> >
> > Philosophy, maybe ...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michael .
>
> * The ' average ' a kid of 12 gets now in Ireland for their
> Confirmation Day os a thousand ERuro,
Do What?
From Who?
No one gave me or my sister money for Communion, it was a personal thing.
�