A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed

[hool...@wonderring.com]

"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
Trinity."

St. John Climacus.

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding
in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the
Lord." 1 Corinthians 15:58

Draw nigh unto God and He will draw nigh unto you.

[James]

hool...@wonderring.com

>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>Trinity."

St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
(NASB)

The Trinity teaching says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all
co-equal. But the Bible teaches that after Jesus' resurrection and he
went back to Heaven to be with God, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co
11:3,

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)

Yes, genuine Christians "realize" that fact, and teach it to others as
well.


James
John 4:23,24
www.jw.org

[holl...@wonddering.com]

>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>Trinity."
>>
>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,

This is the assertion of the ancient heresy of Arianism.

It has been said that most heresy starts with some attack on Christ as the
second person of the Holy Trinity.

When we see such as the above it puts the poster outside of being a
christian. The jw and mormon and muslim and oneness pentecostal and a host
of other cults hold false ideas about Christ.

All those cults have one thing in common. They were all started by single
lone ranger bible readers who are an infallible pope unto themselvs. They
invented new doctrine on the fly, each new heresy different and from the
same scripture. All their individual heresy attacked the nature of Christ
in the Trinity.

It is these cults ant those lone ranger bible readers of which scripture
warns multiple times that are to come to corrupt and decieve.

[."".]

>>>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>>>Trinity."
>>>>
>>>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>>>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>
>> This is the assertion of the ancient heresy of Arianism.
>>
>

>Too bad you do not know scripture, or cannot read it, because it says far
>different.
>Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
>creation.

Created and first born are not the same. Here is how the creed puts it:I
believe in one God, Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of
all things visible and invisible: And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
only-begotten Son of God; begotten of the Father before all ages; Light
from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, of One Essence with
the Father, by Whom all things were made: Who for us men, and for our
salvation, came down from Heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and
the Virgin Mary, and became Man:

See the fruit of the lone ranger bible reader, an infallible pope unto
himself who invents new doctrines on the fly.

Such too are the jw and mormon and muslim and oneness pentecostal and a
host of other cults. All born of one man declaring all but himself in
error and pronouncing "my bible says".

From the above the creed goes on to say that God and God are of one
essence, and a bit later to include the Holy Spirit as the same.

Christ says in scripture He is God.

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Col. 1:15, "firstborn of all creation"

by Matt Slick

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all

creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in
the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things
invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or
governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created
through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by
means of him all [other] things were made to exists." (Col. 1:15-17,
for context. The New World Translation - Emphasis added. Note the
NWT's addition of 'other' into the text four times. This is discussed
here.)

firstborn in greekThe Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word
"firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with
their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of
course, Jesus, the word become flesh (John 1:1,14) is not a created
thing. But that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from
claiming He is. Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first
created" and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the
Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is
proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we
find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be
proto with ktizo and it is not used here.

Second, the biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting.
It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can
also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found
David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him...I also shall
make him My first-born" (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the
last one born in his family was called the firstborn by God. This is a
title of preeminence.

Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:

Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born
Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all
my fatherï's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For
God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction" (NASB)
Jer. 31:9, "...for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My
firstborn (NASB)."

Scripture best interprets scripture. Firstborn does not require a
meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means
here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family and it
can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is
obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14) and is also the
first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all
things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine
Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them
in their thinking and believing.

http://carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/col-115-firstborn-all-creation

[duke]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:49:30 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:

>hool...@wonderring.com
>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>Trinity."
>
>St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,

He was??? NO way. Jesus IS God come in the flesh.


The dukester, American - American

********************************************
Repeal Obama
You simply can't fix stupid.
********************************************

[duke]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 09:56:26 -0700, Pete <n...@nya.biz> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:49:30 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>

>> hool...@wonderring.com
>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>Trinity."
>>
>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>
>> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
>> (NASB)
>>
>

>Jesus was not created. That would have required the similar to the 1st
>Adam.

>
>> The Trinity teaching says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all
>> co-equal. But the Bible teaches that after Jesus' resurrection and he
>> went back to Heaven to be with God, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co
>> 11:3,
>>

>No, He submitted himself to his Father. Are you inferior to your dad?

>
>> "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
>> the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
>>
>> Yes, genuine Christians "realize" that fact, and teach it to others as
>> well.
>>
>

>Have you any idea just what constitutes being a genuine Christian?

You don't. You think God is a Duality.

[duke]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 13:05:44 -0700, Pete <n...@nya.biz> wrote:

>On 17 May 2013 19:24:23 GMT, <holl...@wonddering.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>>>Trinity."
>>>>
>>>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>>>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>
>> This is the assertion of the ancient heresy of Arianism.
>>
>

>Too bad you do not know scripture, or cannot read it, because it says far
>different.

>Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
>creation.

Right, the first flesh to be resurrected to new life.

[James]

Pete <n...@nya.biz>

>On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:49:30 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>

>> hool...@wonderring.com
>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>Trinity."
>>
>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>
>> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
>> (NASB)
>>
>

>Jesus was not created. That would have required the similar to the 1st
>Adam.

Opinion noted. But I stand by the evidence of the Scripture presented
at Col 1:15. The CONTEXT is clearly THINGS CREATED.

>
>> The Trinity teaching says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all
>> co-equal. But the Bible teaches that after Jesus' resurrection and he
>> went back to Heaven to be with God, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co
>> 11:3,
>>

>No, He submitted himself to his Father. Are you inferior to your dad?

My father is dead. But the Trinity teaching says that in Heaven, all
are co-equal. (unless you have a different Trinity doctrine). And the
Bible shows that Jesus IS NOT co-equal to his Father in Heaven. I
choose to go by what the Bible says, not what men make up (Trinity
doctrine) long after the Bible was written. As the New Encyclopædia
Britannica puts it:

"Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took
substantially the form it has maintained ever since." (Micropædia,
Vol. X, p. 126.)

>
>> "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
>> the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
>>
>> Yes, genuine Christians "realize" that fact, and teach it to others as
>> well.
>>
>

>Have you any idea just what constitutes being a genuine Christian?

By definition:

"a person who believes in Christ and follows His teachings;" (The
World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary)

Many people believe in Jesus, but don't follow all his teachings. For
example Mt 5:44,

"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you," (NASB)

Yet most of the churches of Christendom participate in this world's
wars. They must believe that 'loving their enemies' is taking their
life away from them. Very stange kind of "love", don't you think?

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Jesus is God

by Matt Slick

"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I
have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I
am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after
me," (Isaiah 43:10).

JESUS


IS


GOD, "YAHWEH"
John 1:3, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was
made that has been made."
Col. 1:16-17, "For by him all things were created: things in heaven
and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or
rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He
is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Creator
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty
gives me life."
Isaiah 40:28, "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the
everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not
grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom."
Rev. 1:17, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he
placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the
First and the Last.’"
Rev. 2:8, "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the
words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life
again."
Rev. 22:13, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the
Beginning and the End."

First and Last
Isaiah 41:4, "Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth
the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD -- with the first of
them and with the last -- I am he."
Isaiah 44:6, "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and
Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart
from me there is no God."
Isaiah 48:12, "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am
he; I am the first and I am the last."
John 8:24, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your
sins." (NKJV)
John 8:58, "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was
born, I am!" See Exodus 3:14
John 13:19, "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it
does happen you will believe that I am He."

I AM

"ego eimi"
Exodus 3:14, "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are
to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"
Isaiah 43:10, "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my
servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and
understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there
be one after me."
See also Deut. 32:39
2 Tim. 4:1, "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will
judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his
kingdom, I give you this charge..."
2 Cor. 5:10, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of
Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done
while in the body, whether good or bad."

Judge
Joel 3:12, "Let the nations be roused; let them advance into the
Valley of Jehoshaphat, for there I will sit to judge all the nations
on every side."
Rom. 14:10, "You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you
look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment
seat."
Matt. 2:2, "...Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We
saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
Luke 23:3, "So Pilate asked Jesus, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied."
See also John 19:21

King
Jer. 10:10, "But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the
eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot
endure his wrath."
Isaiah 44:6-8, "This is what the LORD says -- Israel's King and
Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart
from me there is no God."
See also Psalm 47
John 8:12,"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the
light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness,
but will have the light of life."
Luke 2:32, "a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to
your people Israel."
See also John 1:7-9

Light
Psalm 27:1, "The LORD is my light and my salvation -- whom shall I
fear?"
Isaiah 60:20 ,"our sun will never set again, and your moon will wane
no more; the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of
sorrow will end."
1 John 1:5, "God is light; in him there is no darkness at all."
1 Cor. 10:4, "...for they drank from the spiritual rock that
accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."
See also 1 Pet. 2:4-8.

Rock
Deut. 32:4, "He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways
are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he."
See also 2 Sam. 22:32 and Isaiah 17:10.
John 4:42, "They said to the woman, ‘We no longer believe just because
of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that
this man really is the Savior of the world.’"
1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent
his Son to be the Savior of the world."

Savior
Isaiah 43:3, "For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel,
your Savior"
Isaiah 45:21, "...And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God
and a Savior; there is none but me."
John 10:11, "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his
life for the sheep."
Heb. 13:20, "May the God of peace, who through the blood of the
eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great
Shepherd of the sheep,"
See also John 10:14,16; 1 Pet. 2:25

Shepherd
Psalm 23:1, "The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want."
Isaiah 40:11, "He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the
lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads
those that have young."

Unless otherwise noted, all quotations are from the NASB.

http://carm.org/jesus-god

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On May 18, 10:15 pm, Pete <n...@nya.biz> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 May 2013 18:20:25 -0700 (PDT), "jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com"
>
> <jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> > Jesus is
>
> Do you know who is the memra?
>

MEMRA (= "Ma'amar" or "Dibbur," "Logos"):

"The Word," in the sense of the creative or directive word or
speech of God manifesting His power in the world of matter or mind; a
term used especially in the Targum as a substitute for "the Lord" when
an anthropomorphic expression is to be avoided.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10618-memra

[pyotr filipivich]

;. "". on 17 May 2013 21:37:26 GMT typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>
>>>>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>>>>Trinity."
>>>>>
>>>>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>>>>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>>
>>> This is the assertion of the ancient heresy of Arianism.
>>>
>>
>>Too bad you do not know scripture, or cannot read it, because it says far
>>different.
>>Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
>>creation.
>
>Created and first born are not the same. Here is how the creed puts it:I
>believe in one God, Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of
>all things visible and invisible: And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
>only-begotten Son of God; begotten of the Father before all ages; Light
>from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, of One Essence with
>the Father, by Whom all things were made: Who for us men, and for our
>salvation, came down from Heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit and
>the Virgin Mary, and became Man:
>
>See the fruit of the lone ranger bible reader, an infallible pope unto
>himself who invents new doctrines on the fly.

And we have seen repeatedly, how the Synod of Pete, PeterB,
"Πέτρος σι.", Peter B, PB, et alia, do not accept the Christian Creed,
because apparently there is no such text in the book they have.

>
>Such too are the jw and mormon and muslim and oneness pentecostal and a
>host of other cults. All born of one man declaring all but himself in
>error and pronouncing "my bible says".
>
>From the above the creed goes on to say that God and God are of one
>essence, and a bit later to include the Holy Spirit as the same.
>
>Christ says in scripture He is God.

And he says it in such a way that his hearers at least had no
doubt that such was his claim.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[James]

Pete <n...@nya.biz>

>On Sat, 18 May 2013 12:27:01 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>> Pete <n...@nya.biz>
>>>On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:49:30 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hool...@wonderring.com
>>>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>>>Trinity."
>>>>
>>>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>>>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>>>
>>>> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
>>>> (NASB)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Jesus was not created. That would have required the similar to the 1st
>>>Adam.
>>
>> Opinion noted. But I stand by the evidence of the Scripture presented
>> at Col 1:15. The CONTEXT is clearly THINGS CREATED.
>>

>Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
>the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
>preeminence.

Notice carefully that Jesus had a "beginning", and that he was once
"dead". God NEVER DIED, but always lived. Ps 90:2,

"Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)


>
>Again Jesus is firstborn. Context??
>The context of the chapter happens to be reconciliation.

>
>
>>>
>>>> The Trinity teaching says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all
>>>> co-equal. But the Bible teaches that after Jesus' resurrection and he
>>>> went back to Heaven to be with God, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co
>>>> 11:3,
>>>>
>>>No, He submitted himself to his Father. Are you inferior to your dad?
>>
>> My father is dead. But the Trinity teaching says that in Heaven, all
>> are co-equal. (unless you have a different Trinity doctrine). And the
>> Bible shows that Jesus IS NOT co-equal to his Father in Heaven. I
>> choose to go by what the Bible says, not what men make up (Trinity

>> doctrine) long after the Bible was written. As the New Encyclop�dia
>> Britannica puts it:
>>
>There is no trinity teaching. Many just assume the phrase and have no
>knowledge. Like you. You have nothing that shows He is not co-equal, right
>now He is also in heaven

Scriptural proof of not Jesus not co-equal to God in Heaven. 1 Co
11:3,

"Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)

>and the NT clearly states in many places that no
>one will enter heaven, nor see the Father, God the creator without going
>through Him. God is God, and not all in heaven are equal and they never
>will be.

>
>> "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
>> in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
>> contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
>> our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
>> gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
>> By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took

>> substantially the form it has maintained ever since." (Microp�dia,
>> Vol. X, p. 126.)
>>
>
>Have you a link to that teenie pedia?

It was from a library quote.

>When you assume I believe in the trinity you are caused to waste your time.
>And if your understanding of what I say is clouded by that idea then you
>are operating out of prejudice and will never be able to understand clear
>thought.
>
>"God" translated is plural. Elohim is a plural word. Since there is no
>number given with it, one can assume the number is three. In the Hebrew
>language a noun is singular, dual, or plural. When it is plural, but no
>number is given, one can assume it to be three.

Why not four or fourteen etc. Your assumptions are not Scriptural
proof.

>
>Now, one cannot deny that there are three as the entire Bible bears record
>that there are three, so your assumption about the understanding of that
>verse is in error.

Actually, there are multitudes. Joh 17:21,22,

"21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in
thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that
thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given
them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (KJV)

>
>>>
>>>> "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
>>>> the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
>>>>
>>>> Yes, genuine Christians "realize" that fact, and teach it to others as
>>>> well.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Have you any idea just what constitutes being a genuine Christian?
>>
>> By definition:
>>
>> "a person who believes in Christ and follows His teachings;" (The
>> World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary)
>>
>> Many people believe in Jesus, but don't follow all his teachings. For
>> example Mt 5:44,
>>
>> "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
>> you," (NASB)
>>

>Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you,
>do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you
>and persecute you,
>
>Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
>perfect.
>
>Are YOU perfect? Do you follow the verse I posted ALL the time, without
>fail? Perfection requires no slip ups, ever.

Is Jesus telling imperfect humans that we must attain a level of
perfection equaling God? That would not be possible. Notice the
context. Jesus is talking about love and generosity. Jesus is showing
that if we only love those who love us, our love is defective or
incomplete. We should follow God's example of love. He gives the life
sustaining sun and the rains from the sky to even wicked people and
those hating Him. (vs 45) Thus Biblically speaking, relative
perfection can be achieved even by imperfect humans.

And besides, the Bible clearly says that ALL people sin. Ro 5:12,

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
sinned" (NIV)

>
>> Yet most of the churches of Christendom participate in this world's
>> wars. They must believe that 'loving their enemies' is taking their
>> life away from them. Very stange kind of "love", don't you think?
>>
>

>Depending on the war/wars you are speaking of there was no church (as you
>speak of it) involved.
>
>Pacifism says let all those in Uganda that are starving, starve, let all
>that are being persecuted die and go to hell, Pacifism states "Hey, you
>wanna rape that woman or boy over there you got my blessing, shrug.
>
>Even if these people were suffering for the name of Christ Jesus and you
>had the power to say NO MORE to the people involved Or....
>
>And you did not, just how do you feel is going to be your personal
>judgment. You cannot lay the blame on the JW org because you followed them,
>it is your choice to believe and or seek the truth and listen to the quiet
>notions in your head that tell you from God that you are being deceived.


If you belong to a church, you likely follow their teachings,
otherwise you would be somewhere else.

Jesus plainly said to "love your enemeies", "Love your neighbor", Mt
26:52,

""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)

Thus if we follow Jesus' words, that means that we must trust God and
Jesus in these matters. But one can use personal self defense. (more
on that if you wish) It doesn't mean killing the person, but getting
away any way one can. (Jesus ran from those trying to harm him, until
his time had arrived to be arrested)

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

John 1:1 What do scholars say?
http://crossbearer-brian.tripod.com/id237.htm

Following are comments by some of the experts in the field of Biblical
languages:

Dr. J. R. Mantey (who is quoted on pages 1158-1159) of the Witnesses
own Kingdom Interlinear TransIation): "A shocking mistranslation.
"Obsolete and incorrect." It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to
translate John 1 :1 "The Word was a god.'

Dr. B. F. Westcott (whose Greek text not the English part is used in
the Kingdom InterIinear Translation): "The predicate (God) stands
emphatically first, as in iv. 24. It is necessarily without the
article. . . . No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the
form of expression, which simply affirms the true deity of the
Word. . . . in the third clause "the Word" is declared to be "GOD."
and so included in the unity of the Godhead."

Dr. Bruce M. Metzger of Princeton (Professor of New Testament Language
and Literature): "A frightful mistranslation." "Erroneous" and
"pernicious" "Irepre-hensible" , " If the Jehovah's Witnesses take
this translation seriously, they are polytheists."

Dr. Samuel J. Mikolaski of Zurich, Switzerland: "This anarthrous (used
without the article) construction does not mean what the indefinite
article "a'" means in English. It is monstrous to translate the phrase
"the Word was a god."

Dr. Paul L. Kaufman of Portland, Oregon: "The Jehovah's Witnesses
people evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets of Greek
grammar In their mistranslation of John 1 :1 "

Dr. Charles L. Feinberg of La Mirada, California: "I can assure you
that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not
held by any reputable Greek scholar" .

Dr. James L. Boyer of Winona Lake, Indiana: "I have never heard of ,
or read of any Greek Scholar who would agree to the interpretation of
this verse insisted upon by the Jehovah's Witnesses . . . I have never
encountered one of them who had any knowledge of the Greek language."

Dr. Walter Martin (late): "The translation "a god" instead of "GOD' is
erroneous and unsupported by any good Greek scholarship, ancient or
contemporary and is a translation rejected by all recognized scholars
of the Greek language many of whom are not even Christ-ians, and
cannot fairly be said to be biased in favor of the orthodox
contention." ..

Dr. William Barclay of the University of Glasgow , Scotland: "The
deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New
testament translations John 1:1 is translated: ". . the Word was a
god," a translation which is grammatically impossible. . . . It is
abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament
like that is intellectually dishonest."

Dr. F. F. Bruce of the University of Manchester, England: "Much is
made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite
article with "God" in the phrase "And the Word was God." Such an
omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction. . . . "a
god" would be totally indefensible".
(Barclay and Bruce are generaIIy regarded as Great Britain's Ieading
Greek scholars. Both have New Testament translations in print!)

Dr . Ernest C. Colwell of the University of Chicago; "A definite
predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does
not have the article when it precedes the verb. . . this statement
cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which
reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas. "My Lord and my God."
- John 20; 28.".

Dr. Philip B. Harner of Heidelberg College: "The verb preceding an
anarthrous predicate, would probably mean that the Iogos was "a god"
or a divine being of some kind, belonging to the general category of
theos but as a distinct being from ho theos. In the form that John
actually uses, the word "theos" is placed at the beginning for
emphasis."

Dr. J. Johnson of California State University, Long Beach: "No
Justification whatsoever for translating theos en ho logos as "the
Word was a god." There is no syntactical parallel to Acts 23:6 where
there is a statement in indirect discourse; John 1:1 is direct. . . I
am neither a Christian nor a trinitarian."

Dr. Eugene A. Nida, head of Translations Department, American Bible
Society: "With regard to John. 1 .1 , there is of course a
complication simply because the New World Translation was apparently
done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the
Greek." (Responsible for the Good News Bible- The committee worked
under him.)

Dr. J. J. Griesbach (whose Greek text, not the English parts used in
the Emphatic Diaglott ):
"So numerous, and clear are the arguments and testimonies of
Scriptures in favor of the true Deity of Christ, that I can hardly
imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture,
and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by
any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage, John 1: 1-3, is so
clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of
either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of
the defenders of the truth".

Other scriptures without the definite article

The following passages, as with John 1:1, also identified the word
"God" in the Greek scriptures without the use of the definite article
as in John 1:1. Yet, if you will see the NWT, the Watchtower does not
translate these passages as "a god" as they did in John 1:1! The
following are quoted directly from the 1984 New World Translation.

John 1:6 There arose a man sent forth as a representative of
God, his name was John. (no definite article)

John 1:13 and they were born, not from blood, or from a fleshly
will, or from man's will, but from God. (no definite article)

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten
god, who is in the bosom with the Father is the one that has explained
him. (no definite article)

John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I glorify myself, my glory is
nothing: it is my Father that glorifies me; he who YOU say is YOUR
God. (no definite article Noun/Nominative case as in John
1:1)

Each of the above scriptures, clearly speaking of God the Father,
could NOT be translated by the Watchtower as "a god" without creating
suspicion by their followers. Yet, each of these passages are written
in the Greek, without the definite article, as in John 1:1!


Scholars' explination for the "missing" definite article!

John 1:1
And the Word was God (kai theos e¯n ho logos). By exact and careful
language John denied Sabellianism by not saying ho theos e¯n ho logos.
That would mean that all of God was expressed in ho logos and the
terms would be interchangeable, each having the article. The subject
is made plain by the article (ho logos) and the predicate without it
(theos) just as in Joh_4:24 pneuma ho theos can only mean "God is
spirit," not "spirit is God." So in 1Jo_4:16 ho theos agape¯ estin can
only mean "God is love," not "love is God" as a so-called Christian
scientist would confusedly say. For the article with the predicate see
Robertson, Grammar, pp. 767f. So in Joh_1:14 ho Logos sarx egeneto,
"the Word became flesh," not "the flesh became Word." Luther argues
that here John disposes of Arianism also because the Logos was
eternally God, fellowship of Father and Son, what Origen called the
Eternal Generation of the Son (each necessary to the other). Thus in
the Trinity we see personal fellowship on an equality. (Robertson's
Word Pictures)

And the Word was God (kai theos e¯n ho logos)
In the Greek order, and God was the Word, which is followed by Anglo-
Saxon, Wyc., and Tynd. But Theos, God, is the predicate and not the
subject of the proposition. The subject must be the Word; for John is
not trying to show who is God, but who is the Word. Notice that Theos
is without the article, which could not have been omitted if he had
meant to designate the word as God; because, in that event, Theos
would have been ambiguous; perhaps a God. (Vincent's Word Studies)



The notable Greek scholars agree, by proper Greek grammer, the reason
that the article is omitted here in John 1:1, is because John was
defining who the "Word" was, not who "God" was! To include the article
in John 1:1, would change the entire structure and meaning of the
verse to be defining who "God" was, instead of defining who the "Word"
was! Instead of saying "and the Word was God," by including the
article it would say "and God was the Word" which was not the intent
of John!

No doubt the Watchtower is aware of this fact, but has hidden it from
their flock. If they were to reveal this truth to their subjects,
their followers would realize they are lying about their false
teachings about the Christ and this anti-christ group would cease to
exist. Since John 1:1 is a key scripture identifying that Jesus is
God, it is most vital for them to continue to hide the truth! Thomas
knew the truth, and declared the deity of Christ when he finally
believed:

John 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and
my God. [29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have
believed.

[James]

Pete <n...@nya.biz>

>On Sun, 19 May 2013 10:24:42 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>> Pete <n...@nya.biz>
>>>On Sat, 18 May 2013 12:27:01 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pete <n...@nya.biz>
>>>>>On Fri, 17 May 2013 11:49:30 -0400, James <1ri...@windstream.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hool...@wonderring.com
>>>>>>>"A Christian is an imitator of Christ in thought, word and deed, as far as
>>>>>>>this humanly possible, and he believes rightly and blamelessly in the Holy
>>>>>>>Trinity."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> St. John Climacus should have looked at his Bible more. Jesus cannot
>>>>>> be God because Jesus was created by God. Col 1:15,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."
>>>>>> (NASB)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Jesus was not created. That would have required the similar to the 1st
>>>>>Adam.
>>>>
>>>> Opinion noted. But I stand by the evidence of the Scripture presented
>>>> at Col 1:15. The CONTEXT is clearly THINGS CREATED.
>>>>
>>>Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
>>>the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
>>>preeminence.
>>
>> Notice carefully that Jesus had a "beginning", and that he was once
>> "dead". God NEVER DIED, but always lived. Ps 90:2,
>>

>Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst
>formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou
>art God.
>
>Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
>Word was God.

Your translation is flawed here. (that is not your fault) Other than
the Jehovah's Witness Bible (NWT), here are some others:

"the Logos was divine." (MO);
"the Word was divine." (AT; SD);
"a god was the Word." (interlinear ED) ;
"the Word was a god" (NTIV).
"the Word was a god." (NWT)
"The Word was deity." (Simple English)


So why don't ALL Bibles agree on that passage? It all depends how
close the translators stay with the Greek grammar from the
manuscript(s) they translated it from.

What if I said to you these similar two statements:

He is Tom Hanks.
He is the Tom Hanks.

Does the addition of the definite article "the" change the meaning a
little? It is a similar thing with the Greek grammar found at John
1:1.

In Greek, that passage contains the word "god" [theos] twice, and the
context is talking about God and the Word (Jesus). [not some kinds of
false gods]

The first one has the definite article "the" before it, the second one
does not. Thus there is a difference between the meaning of the first
"god" [theos] and the second "god" [theos]. And a good translation
should show that difference.

According to the Bible translator William Barclay, he says that when a
Greek noun doesn't have the definite article in front of it, it
becomes a description (like an adjective) rather than an identity
(like a noun). And the second "theos" [god] has no definite article
preceding it.

The Catholic Bible, New American Bible (NAB), says in a footnote on
John 1:1,

"Was God:lack of a definite article with "God" in Greek signifies
predication rather than identification".

And the apostle John near the end of his book at John 20:31, mentions
the final concluding comment about Jesus' position as to God. He said
that Jesus was the "Son of God", not 'God the Son', nor 'God'.

Thus to ACCURATELY get across what the writer of Joh 1:1 was saying,
is to show that the "Word" [Jesus] was with Almighty God in the
beginning, and that the "Word" was also like a god, or godlike.

That is how the Greek manuscripts read, and that is how honest and
accurate translators should translate it for their readers.



>Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
>Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing
>made that was made.
>
>Jesus always was, born of His Father and Mary He became flesh. Yet he
>always was. His Father gave Him the power to lay down His life and to pick
>it up again. He laid down His life at the cross for your sin and mine.
>Without the shedding of blood there is no remission for sin. His Blood was
>shed, He was the Perfect Lamb of God sacrificed and His blood was sprinkled
>on the altar not made with hands. He did not determine within himself to be
>resurrected His heavenly Father did when Jesus had paid the full price for
>all sin. Then he was shown to the disciples in His former Glory, that which
>was his before the worlds were formed.

>
>
>> "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the
>> world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." (NIV)
>>
>

>Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
>translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
>Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the
>forgiveness of sins:
>Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
>creature:
>Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
>are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions,
>or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
>Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

>Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
>the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the
>preeminence.

>Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
>
>Now reread John 1:1-3

>
>>>
>>>Again Jesus is firstborn. Context??
>>>The context of the chapter happens to be reconciliation.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Trinity teaching says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all
>>>>>> co-equal. But the Bible teaches that after Jesus' resurrection and he
>>>>>> went back to Heaven to be with God, he still was inferior to God. 1 Co
>>>>>> 11:3,
>>>>>>
>>>>>No, He submitted himself to his Father. Are you inferior to your dad?
>>>>
>>>> My father is dead. But the Trinity teaching says that in Heaven, all
>>>> are co-equal. (unless you have a different Trinity doctrine). And the
>>>> Bible shows that Jesus IS NOT co-equal to his Father in Heaven. I
>>>> choose to go by what the Bible says, not what men make up (Trinity
>>>> doctrine) long after the Bible was written. As the New Encyclop�dia
>>>> Britannica puts it:
>>>>
>>>There is no trinity teaching. Many just assume the phrase and have no
>>>knowledge. Like you. You have nothing that shows He is not co-equal, right
>>>now He is also in heaven
>>
>> Scriptural proof of not Jesus not co-equal to God in Heaven. 1 Co
>> 11:3,
>>
>> "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
>> the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
>>
>

>It is a biblical principle that the head treats its body as greater than
>he. The he takes care of all the needs of the body, wife, son.
>
>Can the head be greater then the rest of itself? Therefore if,...
>Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
>What is one?
>Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in

>thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou
>hast sent me.

John 17:21 proves my point. At John 10:30 "one" what? Jesus was saying
that they were one in belief, one in agreement, etc. If at John 10:30
Jesus meant one in substance, then God must contain hundreds of
persons, since "that they also may be one in us".

>
>Without Jesus as your head and Saviour just how do you plan that this verse
>will include you or anyone else who tries to come to the Father any other
>way? Jesus calls them all thieves.

I never said that Jesus was not our head. He is certainly over humans.
But according to 1 Cor 11:3, he is not over God.


>
>1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
>things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things,
>and we by him.

>
>>>and the NT clearly states in many places that no
>>>one will enter heaven, nor see the Father, God the creator without going
>>>through Him. God is God, and not all in heaven are equal and they never
>>>will be.
>>>
>>>> "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
>>>> in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
>>>> contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
>>>> our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
>>>> gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
>>>> By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took
>>>> substantially the form it has maintained ever since." (Microp�dia,
>>>> Vol. X, p. 126.)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Have you a link to that teenie pedia?
>>
>> It was from a library quote.
>>
>

>Then how do we verify it in context? Is it publicly available?
>If not then no sense in using it.

As far as I know it is publically availiable.

>Question book-new.svg
This article relies largely or entirely upon a single source.
Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help improve
this article by introducing citations to additional sources. (April
2012)
Microp�dia volumes

"The 12-volume Microp�dia is one of the three parts of the 15th
edition of Encyclop�dia Britannica". (Wikipedia)

>
>>>When you assume I believe in the trinity you are caused to waste your time.
>>>And if your understanding of what I say is clouded by that idea then you
>>>are operating out of prejudice and will never be able to understand clear
>>>thought.
>>>
>>>"God" translated is plural. Elohim is a plural word. Since there is no
>>>number given with it, one can assume the number is three. In the Hebrew
>>>language a noun is singular, dual, or plural. When it is plural, but no
>>>number is given, one can assume it to be three.
>>
>> Why not four or fourteen etc. Your assumptions are not Scriptural
>> proof.
>>
>

>It is not my assumption, your question was answered before you asked. I do
>wish you would read the entire post rather than assume and accuse without
>basis. The answer was in the line above your question, directly above.

You just said above "one can assume the number is three". That is an
assumption. Why not assume it 100's.

>
>>>
>>>Now, one cannot deny that there are three as the entire Bible bears record
>>>that there are three, so your assumption about the understanding of that
>>>verse is in error.
>>
>> Actually, there are multitudes. Joh 17:21,22,
>>
>> "21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in
>> thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that
>> thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given
>> them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (KJV)
>>
>

><smiling> you just counteracted your argument about one being less than the
>other. Sadly you are not part of that group.

If John 10:30 says God and Jesus are "one", and means part of the
Trinity, then Joh 17:21,22 says that Jesus' disciples are also "one in
us", thus making God many more than three.

>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and
>>>>>> the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (NIV)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, genuine Christians "realize" that fact, and teach it to others as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Have you any idea just what constitutes being a genuine Christian?
>>>>
>>>> By definition:
>>>>
>>>> "a person who believes in Christ and follows His teachings;" (The
>>>> World Book Encyclopedia Dictionary)
>>>>
>>>> Many people believe in Jesus, but don't follow all his teachings. For
>>>> example Mt 5:44,
>>>>
>>>> "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
>>>> you," (NASB)
>>>>
>>>Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you,
>>>do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you
>>>and persecute you,
>>>
>>>Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is
>>>perfect.
>>>
>>>Are YOU perfect? Do you follow the verse I posted ALL the time, without
>>>fail? Perfection requires no slip ups, ever.
>>
>> Is Jesus telling imperfect humans that we must attain a level of
>> perfection equaling God? That would not be possible. Notice the
>> context. Jesus is talking about love and generosity.
>

>Oh really? Will you take a bullet for me? I don't know, are you being shot at?

>
>> Jesus is showing
>> that if we only love those who love us, our love is defective or
>> incomplete. We should follow God's example of love. He gives the life
>> sustaining sun and the rains from the sky to even wicked people and
>> those hating Him. (vs 45) Thus Biblically speaking, relative
>> perfection can be achieved even by imperfect humans.
>>
>

>Yet you began your paragraph thusly, "That would not be possible." Then you
>say, "perfection can be achieved even by imperfect humans."
>
>Which is it? Without the holy spirit you will not have Gods love within
>you. Just how do you wish to achieve that king of love on your own?

Let me explan it to you perhaps better. Perfection in the absloute is
not possible with imperfect humans today. But RELATIVE perfection is.

>
>
>> And besides, the Bible clearly says that ALL people sin. Ro 5:12,
>>
>> "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death
>> through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
>> sinned" (NIV)
>>
>

>See what you get when you read watered down teachings?
>Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by
>sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
>
>All "Have" sinned. Words mean something and can be a matter of life and
>death. The Word brings Life and that eternal.
>Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign
>through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
>Read Romans 6 for Life, freedom from death and sin.

How is Ro 5:12 "watered down teachings"?

>
>>>
>>>> Yet most of the churches of Christendom participate in this world's
>>>> wars. They must believe that 'loving their enemies' is taking their
>>>> life away from them. Very stange kind of "love", don't you think?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Depending on the war/wars you are speaking of there was no church (as you
>>>speak of it) involved.
>>>
>>>Pacifism says let all those in Uganda that are starving, starve, let all
>>>that are being persecuted die and go to hell, Pacifism states "Hey, you
>>>wanna rape that woman or boy over there you got my blessing, shrug.
>>>
>>>Even if these people were suffering for the name of Christ Jesus and you
>>>had the power to say NO MORE to the people involved Or....
>>>
>>>And you did not, just how do you feel is going to be your personal
>>>judgment. You cannot lay the blame on the JW org because you followed them,
>>>it is your choice to believe and or seek the truth and listen to the quiet
>>>notions in your head that tell you from God that you are being deceived.
>>
>> If you belong to a church, you likely follow their teachings,
>> otherwise you would be somewhere else.
>>
>

>I go to a church to Praise God and worship Him. I expect to receive
>something from Him and share as is needed. They happen to be the Bible
>First for teaching, and no man made doctrines to follow.

Then we should have the same beliefs. JW's are Bible before men's
teachings. The Trinity is man's teaching, not the Bible. It was made
up in the 4th century thus making it post-Biblical in origin.

Here are a few verses to consider. If Jesus was God, then God must
suffer from a split personality or something, since one part of Him
doesn't know what another part is doing. Mr 13:32,

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven,
nor the Son, but only the Father." (NIV)

I for one, believe God is 100% mentally stable. The Bible describes
God as a "rock" (De 32:4), so His mind is not fragmented into other
personalities that don't know what the others are doing etc.

Also the Bible tells us that Jesus was created, but that God always
existed:

Jesus created- Col 1:15, "He is the image of the invisible God, the

firstborn of all creation." (NASB)

God always lived- Ps 90:2, "Before the mountains were born or you

brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting
you are God." (NIV)

Also, Jesus himself plainly said that God was superior to him. Joh
14:28,

"You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If
you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the
Father is greater than I." (NIV)

>
>> Jesus plainly said to "love your enemeies", "Love your neighbor", Mt
>> 26:52,
>>
>> ""Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who
>> draw the sword will die by the sword."" (NIV)
>>
>

>Meaning as a means for living. Like holding up people with a gun.
>
>Jesus said here to buy a sword even selling your clothes if need be to buy
>one.
>
>Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip,
>and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
>Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him
>take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell
>his garment, and buy one.
>Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be
>accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the
>things concerning me have an end.

you need to understand what Jesus was talking about. The amount of
swords he told them to purchase would not be enough to fight off a
mob. And when the mob did come, Jesus didn't want them to use those
swords. Thus he wanted to show them that even though they were armed,
using them was not the way to go.

>
>
>> Thus if we follow Jesus' words, that means that we must trust God and
>> Jesus in these matters. But one can use personal self defense. (more
>> on that if you wish) It doesn't mean killing the person, but getting
>> away any way one can. (Jesus ran from those trying to harm him, until
>> his time had arrived to be arrested)
>>
>

>He did not run, he walked and then walked right through their midst.
>Self defense is picking up the sword.

The Bible does make a distinction between self-defense of your person
and making war with the nations. First of all, Christians are to
personally avoid the encounter if at all possible. God considers all
life as sacred. Jesus would retreat from a situation when it turned
violent. (Luke 4:28-30; Mt 10:23) The Apostle Paul did likewise. (Acts
9:23-25; 14:5,6)

God's thinking on the matter is also revealed in one of the laws He
gave the nation of Israel. At Ex 22:2,3 it states,

"2 If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the
defender is not guilty of bloodshed; 3 but if it happens after
sunrise, he is guilty of bloodshed."A thief must certainly make
restitution, but if he has nothing, he must be sold to pay for his
theft."" (NIV)

Thus, at night when you couldn't see who the intruder was or know of
his intentions (to kill you, or just take your property, etc) you were
permitted to take his life. Self-defese was permitted. Although we are
no longer under that Law Covenant, it does give us some insight into
God's ideas on this subject. Yes, self-defense (when your life in
threatened, not your property) is permitted.

However, every thing should be done, if possible, to avoid the taking
of the life such as wounding the person instead of killing him.

War, on the other hand, can be because of the greed of a ruling
politician. (as well as other reasons) A Christian should never be
found to be a pawn to political leaders who may or may not follow the
teachings of Jesus Christ. Christians are first accountable to God. To
blindly obey men would show where they put their trust; in men, not
God. A prophecy now being fulfilled shows God's view of war in our
day. Isaiah 2:2-4 says,

"And it hath come to pass, In the latter end of the days, Established
is the mount of Jehovah's house, Above the top of the mounts, And it
hath been lifted up above the heights, And flowed unto it have all the
nations. 3 And gone have many peoples and said, `Come, and we go up
unto the mount of Jehovah, Unto the house of the God of Jacob, And He
doth teach us of His ways, And we walk in His paths, For from Zion
goeth forth a law, And a word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. 4 And He hath
judged between the nations, And hath given a decision to many peoples,
And they have beat their swords to ploughshares, And their spears to
pruning-hooks, Nation doth not lift up sword unto nation, Nor do they
learn any more -- war." (YLT)

Notice in the latter days, there would be a group of people comprised
from all the nations who will not go to war anymore. They will not
enlist into any military to kill some "enemy". They will truly "have
love among themselves" by not killing each other in nationalistic
wars. Notice, it is "Jehovah's" house that the people stream to, not
the incorrect translation "LORD". The Tetragrammaton is used here.
(YHWH) There is only one religious group that has "beat their swords
to ploughshares" and identify their place of worship as "Jehovah"s
house". Jehovah's Witnesses are known as peace lovers throughout the
world. They will follow the Bible, whether it is socially popular or
not. They will obey "God as ruler rather than men". (Acts 5:29)
Because they use the Bible as their guide, they will not kill their
fellow man.

[.]

"Jehovah's Witnesses are known as peace lovers throughout the world. They
will follow the Bible, whether it is socially popular or not."

Yes, as do amish and related groups and quakers and others.

The jw follow what has been constructed for them to believe about the
bible. So that construction comes first. If brooklyn says it is so, then
it is so. The first such constructs were invented by mr. russel but some
scant 125 years ago or so. The basic constructs are his long long after
the bible was written. The constructs were the product of one individual
only.