Re: Atheism is the real force behind the mass murders of history
fasgnadh
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
>
> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Looks like the 30,000,000 dead in the USSR were clearly IN THE NAME OF
ATHEISM! B^p
"there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
�We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
�Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
fasgnadh
> Since by definition, atheism is an absence of belief, it can't be the real
> force behind anything.
Dawkins and Hitchins published books prosletysing atheism
Atheists raised money to put their beliefs on the sides of buses..
they added the word "Probably.." to avoid being challenged to prove
their beliefs for which they have NO PROOF!
*BELIEF* can be a cause of action:
eg1 Lenin;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Ands the death of over 30,000,000 people
eg2:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Porn Queen Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
> People are activists for their beliefs;
Atheists sure are!
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodiaļæ½s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Potļæ½s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
fasgnadh
> Utter crap.
Thanks for warning us about your post.
Atheists snip the historical facts they can't rationally refute;
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> raven1 wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>>
>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
>>>> people.
>>>
>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>>
>> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
>> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
>> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
>> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
If it talks like an atheist, and snips and runs like an atheist, and
terrorises, tortures and murders like an atheist.. it's probably an
atheist!
They haven't changed since the Union of Savage Slaughter and
Repression (USSR), they are still hate filled thugs;
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
> They were commies.
Are you retarded? Which part of Lenin's confession don't you
understand, because you clearly can't negate it:
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh destroyed ravin' one's lies:
>> raven1 wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>>
>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
>>>> people.
>>>
>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>>
>> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
>> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
>> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
>> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>
No they weren't, Madame Mao wasn't a male, but she was an atheist.
your logic is pathetic and completely faulty.
Thanks for helping to highlight the horrors of the atheist tyrannies
of the 20th century..
No one believes your desperate propaganda, but it is amusing to watch
you desperate losers all snip the facts and run from what you cannot
refute! B^}
You must be weary of repeated public humiliation, especially when I have
defeated ALL your Chumpions, and filled your NG, which you pack-hunting
thugs once used to gang-rape hapless theists, into an open haven for
unfettered free speech, when the atheist tyrannies are exposed, along
with the thuggery, lies and Pravda Propaganda of all the hate filled
militant atheists whose nonsense I have eviscerated! B^]
> so that maleness is equally culpable.
You really are the most illogical idiot in Usenet! B^D
Males are responsible for open democratic, pluralist majority
religious societies, based on rule of Law and Human rights, as well..
but atheists aren't. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny!
100% catastrophic FAILURES!
Males have inspired and produced great and enduring civilisations..
atheists have not.. they are useless parasites. B^]
>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>
>> Looks like the 30,000,000 dead in the USSR were clearly IN THE NAME OF
>> ATHEISM! B^p
Atheists remain disturbed and violent sociopaths;
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats and
# not in a girly way.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
> They were all males, too,
Crap. Madame Mao was just one of the female atheists in the
party leadership. ALL the tyrants were ATHEISTS, though! 8^o
Thanks for helping to underline the culpability of ATHEISTS!
> so that maleness is equally responsible for
> all those deaths.
Why do you so hate males that you would LIE to try and protect
the evil atheist regimes.. is it because you are jealous than
men have what you lack, .... balls!!!!?!!! B^D
fasgnadh
>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>> # instead of the family.
>> #
>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
Virgil cannot refute a single FACT! B^]
all he can do is further demonstrate his CONFUSION and atheist idiocy:
> I am myself only a NON-theist form of atheist,
You are a knuckle dragging sub-epsilon moron form of atheist,
who contradicts itself becasue your are a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR;
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Subject: Re: Idiot theist tries to change the Subject - Bukakke
Killfiled Fasgnadh
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
#
# I am agnostic
You are a confused, self-contradicting, LYING, nutjob!
Even you disagree with you;
> by claiming to be agnostic, automatically declares himself to
> be an atheist
That's just stupid and illogical! like atheism! B^D
cornholio
killed at the beginning of the 20th century by Turkish muslimes?
What about the ongoing muslme genocide/enslavement of infidels/kufirs
going on in
N. Africa (particularly the Sudan/Darfur)?
Why is it that the only countries which practice LEGALIZED slavery
in the world today (Mauritania being one) are MUSLIME?
Surfer
wrote:
>
>Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>
I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
Surfer
Andre Lieven
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>
> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>
> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
only
warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
refused to surrender (And, not that by this time, Japan had NO navy
left, and pitifully little airpower. They had lost the war no less
than
a year prior to the nuking of Hiroshima.).
All Japan had to do to have had Hiroshima spared was to... face the
truth that they had well and truely LOST the war.
They CHOSE not to; Thus, they earned the consequence.
-Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of
embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area.-
-A number of military camps were located nearby, including the
headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku
Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the
defense of all of southern Japan.-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
I'd say that taking out the HQ of a major army that the US would have
had to fight, if an invasion of Japan became necessary (As it likely
would have been, without The Bomb.) is a legitimate military target.
Andre
Ray Fischer
>On Nov 17, 11:21�am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>>
>> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
>> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>>
>> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
>
>Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
>only
>warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
What a "good christian" you are. You lie about what he wrote and
then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
And, of course, Hitler was no atheist and carried out his religious
mania to the tune of several million dead Jews. But then he was just
continuing a long christian tradition of persecuting Jews.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Morton Lucifer
First, the original post, then the complete atheist fabrication
and forgery so that all readers can see the depths of atheist
dishonesty, derangement and delusion:
Virgil forged and fabricated:
> In article <obwMm.55440$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>> Utter crap.
>>
> Thanks for warning us about your post.
>> Atheists snip the historical facts they can't rationally refute;
>
>>>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>
>
> BTFAAWA
>
> Bestial Theist Fasgnadh , As Always, Wanking AwayCollective
> Responsibility of all non-theists for the acts of fanatical
> communists posing as atheists is an Evil Doctrine in which Fasgnadh
> holds an entire group responsible for, blamed and PUNISHED for the
> crimes committed by individuals not even truly members of that group,
> with Guilt by Association.
>
> That is the core of Fasgnadh's hatemongering posts:
>
>
> In response to a calm rational exposition by such non-theists as
> Bertrand Russell, Fasgnadh tries to tar all non-theists with the crimes
> of tyrants.
>
>
> Why, then, do certain Islamic nations require women to wear # a Burka
> in public?
>
>> It is not hard to demonstrate how this is CRUDE STEREOTYPING
>
> It may be streotypical but it certainly occurs in some Islamic nations.
>
> If any nations REQUIRE women to wear burkas in public, those nations
> are examples of oppression, not mere stereotypes.
>
>
>
>
> Each successive Fasgnadh post takes the PREJUDICE and BIGOTRY of prior
> fasgnadh posts as proven 'facts' and continues to abuse the inocent
> reader with a new layer of PROJECTED FABRICATION..
>
>
>
> Once Fasgnadh defines non-theists as Sub Human, he can 'justify', in
> his own corrupt mind, ANY Atrocity committed against them!
>
>
> Note that atheists, agnostics and non-theists in general do not
> subscribe to this false fasgnadh argument for collective responsibility
> and guilt by association.
>
>
> Fasgnadh's HATE SPEECHES are based on the vilest of prejudices and the
> grossest of stereotypes!
>
> Fasgnadh tries to blame all non-theists for the acts of any atheist.
>
>
> Slowly I am educating Usenet to recognise the stereotypes, bigotry and
> sheer hatred behind those vile Fasgnadh posts in alt.atheism;
No wonder atheists are the most distrusted minority in the USA;
# Atheists Identified as America�s Most Distrusted Minority"
# - American Sociological Association, ASA NEWS
#
# "A survey by sociologists at the University of Minnesota
# found that atheists are �America�s most distrusted minority.�
#
# "From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households,
# university researchers found that Americans rate atheists
# below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and
# other minority groups in �sharing their vision of
# American society.�
#
# Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are
# least willing to allow their children to marry.
#
# Even though atheists are few in number, not formally
# organized and relatively hard to publicly identify,
# they are seen as a threat to the American way of life
# by a large portion of the American public.
#
# Many of the study�s respondents associated atheism with
# an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal
# behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
#
# Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting
# social disorder is behind the findings.
# �Americans believe they share more than rules and
# procedures with their fellow citizens�they share an
# understanding of right and wrong,� she said. �Our
# findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as
# self-interested individuals who are not concerned
# with the common good.�
#
# The study is co-authored by assistant professor
# Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann.
# It�s the first in a series of national studies conducted
# the American Mosaic Project, a three-year project funded
# by the Minneapolis-based David Edelstein Family Foundation
# that looks at race, religion and cultural diversity in
# the contemporary United States."
--
95 Theses for Atheist Reformation
All belief systems ossify over time.
Jesus taught that Love came before politics and wealth,
but his church pursued the latter.
Mohammed brought revolutionary rights for women, but his
followers wound them back in favour of traditional male privilege.
And atheism, once a tiny and ineffectual offshoot of Greek philosophy
has devolved into a series of dreadful totalitarian tyrannies.
What is required is Reformation. In religion this is achieved by
progressive revelation.. the Divine CYCLE of revival and rebirth;
Springtime, Summer, Autumn, Winter
In atheism guidance must come from a lesser source;
The Atheist Reformation Movement - ARM
Gentleman, TO ARMs!
Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Blogs of Reform!
fasgnadh wrote:
# By the time we get to the Enlightenment people understood that
# a God who stops you from hitting the ground when you fall over,
# is a puppet master controlling automatons, not the creator
# of autonomous beings with free will and responsibility.
#
# Still the atheists cling to their simplistic caricatures.
#
# They even blame the god they claim not to believe in, for NOT
# STOPPING the mass murders of the atheist holocausts!!! 8^o
#
# http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:10645?context=latest
#
# As alt.atheism shows they share the fundamentalists LITERAL reading
# of the Bible, believing that their ignorant misunderstandings of
# metaphor shows faults in the text.
#
#
# The fundamentalists are like Philistines staring at the Venus de Milo,
# and complaining that it is not anatomically correct:
#
# "Where's the ARMS" they wail, to the amusement of Art Historians
# and art lovers alike!
Well, I am here to RESTORE the ARMs, and with it, decency and
respectability to atheism..
# In the 19th century, Nietzsche Freud and Marx, all singularly
# unimpressive individuals, (respectively disturbed, neurotic,
# and misogynist) advanced theories rejecting God. And laid
# the groundwork for the totalitarian horrors of the 20th Century.
#
# The worst barbarity occurred in the 'Modern'(sic) Era, when God
# had been proclaimed Dead in the hearts of man, Religion declared
# the Opium of the people, and the sexuality of the neurotic Viennese
# Bourgeois became the central obsession of mankind.
#
# Gas chambers and Gulags, millions systematically tortured terrorised
# and murdered, churches burned, then entire cities, priests killed then
# entire communities.. the Atheist shitholes were the worst and most
# miserable, and their peoples could not wait for them to be assigned
# to the dustbin of FAILED experiments.
#
# And yet modern atheists, like modern Nazis, refuse to acknowledge
# the holocausts carried out by THEIR ideology, in every case where it
# came to power! 8^o
#
#
# Atheism needs REFORM.
#
# It has become a haven of Blind Faith and Dogma
#
# Morton Lucifer needs to nail his 95 Theses to the door
# of Dawkin's house.. or perhaps to his forehead...! B^D
#
# and launch the ATHEIST REFORMATION!!! B^D
I have heard the call of long suffering atheists tired of
the corruption and violence perpetrated in their name,
who remember when atheism was a simple personal belief,
not a violent and repressive political ideology that has
terrorised, tortured and carried out Mass Murder and Crimes
against humanity in half the world!
I call on all the decent, well meaning atheists to join ARM,
the Atheist Reformation Movement, and purge it of the rabid
and dogmatic fanatics which have seized the movement and made
it anathema to all rational minds and decent folk.
Atheism, if it is to survive, must cease it's historical
association with Mass Murder, torture, terror, repression,
anti-theist persecution and pogrom, mass murder and other Crimes
against Humanity.
It must take stock, become more humble, in accordance with it's
insignificance, morally, intellectually, socially, numerically,
culturally, in Science and politically.. it is after all simply
a belief, unprovable, with no relevance to, or importance to normal
life. The Theists have already created rational secular societies
protecting the freedoms of all. Atheists must stop being mere whiners,
and barking mongrel dogs.
Perhaps a vow of silence and retreat to a monastery is in their best
interests, as befits a tiny, impotent and irrelevant sub-branch of
Nihilism.
> Atheism is now, in the hands of Dawkins and Hitchins, a populist
> dogma. It still tries to wear the mantle of science, aided in this
> by the (mostly American) Creationist morons, who cannot understand
> that creation does not unfold according to THEIR understanding,
>
>
> The Big Bang, the fundamental scientific theory of the origin of the
> Universe, was developed by Monsignor Georges Lema�tre, a Catholic
> Prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic
> University of Leuven!
>
> Religion is clearly NO IMPEDIMENT to rational science!
>
> That title belongs to the Atheist tyrannies, the Union of Savage
> Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural
> Devolution, and Pol Pots Year Zero genocide.
>
> Not only science, but art, music, culture and all of
> human society entered a Dark Age during the Atheist tyrannies!
>
>
> Atheism, given the chance, did NOT usher in a new, rational Utopia,
> but immersed millions in misery and despair.
>
> The problem for atheists is, there is not much there to RE FORM! B^D
I will do what I can with what there is.
Even animal dung can be used to daub the walls of peasant huts! B^)
Yap
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> >> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> >> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> >> #
> >> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> >> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> >> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> >> #
> >> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
> >>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
>
> >>>> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >>>> - Daniel Peris,
> >>>> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >>>> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>
> >>>> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>
> >>>> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
> >>>> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
> >>>> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
> >>>> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
> >>>> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>
> >>>> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
> >>>> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>
> >>> They were commies.
>
> >> Are you retarded? Which part of Lenin's confession don't you
> >> understand, because you clearly can't negate it:
>
> >> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> >> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> >> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> >> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> >> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> >> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> Virgil forged and fabricated:
>
>
>
>
>
> # - American Sociological Association, ASA NEWS
> #
> # "A survey by sociologists at the University of Minnesota
> #
> # "From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households,
> # university researchers found that Americans rate atheists
> # below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and
> # American society.”
> #
> # Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are
> # least willing to allow their children to marry.
> #
> # Even though atheists are few in number, not formally
> # organized and relatively hard to publicly identify,
> # they are seen as a threat to the American way of life
> # by a large portion of the American public.
> #
> # an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal
> # behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
> #
> # Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting
> # social disorder is behind the findings.
> # procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an
> # understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our
> # findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as
> # self-interested individuals who are not concerned
> #
> # The study is co-authored by assistant professor
> # Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann.
> > Prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic
> > University of Leuven!
> >
> > Religion is clearly NO IMPEDIMENT to rational science!
> >
> > That title belongs to the Atheist tyrannies, the Union of Savage
> > Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great Leap Backward and Cultural
> > Devolution, and Pol Pots Year Zero genocide.
> >
> > Not only science, but art, music, culture and all of
> > human society entered a Dark Age during the Atheist tyrannies!
> >
> >
> > Atheism, given the chance, did NOT usher in a new, rational Utopia,
> > but immersed millions in misery and despair.
> >
> > The problem for atheists is, there is not much there to RE FORM! B^D
>
> I will do what I can with what there is.
>
> Even animal dung can be used to daub the walls of peasant huts! B^)
Your disguised accusation make people all over the world laugh.
We shall use the cow dung to rub onto your face so that you can enjoy
the cream.
fasgnadh
> <hysteria ranted:
>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>> Sandy SnotBloxs snipped and ran from the facts leaving:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>> You ARE an atheist, fasgnadgh.
>
> you wrote all the stupid crap
He's even less intelligent than you.
Neither of you are capable of rationally refuting a single fact about
historical atheist tyrannies! B^]
Budikka666
> MarkA wrote:
> > Since by definition, atheism is an absence of belief, it can't be the real
> > force behind anything.
>
> Dawkins and Hitchins published books prosletysing atheism
> Atheists raised money to put their beliefs on the sides of buses..
> they added the word "Probably.." to avoid being challenged to prove
> their beliefs for which they have NO PROOF!
[Spastic spamming and irrelevant news groups deleted]
Anyone with even a few functional brain cells (which lets Flatnads
out) understands that atheism isn't a belief, it's a lack of belief.
it's not atheists who need to prove that the theists haven't made a
case. It's the theists who actually need to make a case, which
they've consistently failed to do.
And it isn't atheists who have slaughtered millions, it's
megalomaniacs who have done this, some of whom espoused atheism (which
itself makes no pretense that it's in judgment of who should live or
die) and some of whom have espoused theism (which does make claims
about who should live and who should die, who should get eternal life
and who should get eternal damnation).
But once again, the easiest way to completely rout a dumb-ass like
Faltnads is to take him at his word and run with it to see where it
gets him.
So, purely for the sake of argument, let us grant Fartnads his
juvenlie and patently ridiculous position that it is atheists, and
only atheists who have killed millions. Now let us compare that with
the theist position. The theists are claiming that BILLIONS are
condemned to *eternal* misery and suffering.
So which of the two options - into which Fleenads insists upon forcing
us - is the better: to kill someone and be done with it as Fleanads
LIES that atheists routinely do, or to force that same someone into
*eternal* suffering as the theists insist is the truth?
[Endless spastic knee-jerk non-sequiturs flushed where they belong]
Budikka
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> raven1 bullshitted:
>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>>
>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
>>>> people.
>>>
>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>>
What have your beliefs got to do with the historical reality
of atheist tyrants killing over 70,000,000 people?
> but that didn't stop him
> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
No one here is arguing that christians never do bad things.
Simply that atheist regimes never do anything BUT BAD THINGS.
You see, modern democratic, rights based, MAJORITY RELIGIOUS
societies (where all you atheists CHOOSE to live ;-) exist,
and are amongst the most progressive and free nations on earth..
so religion is clearly not a SYSTEMIC problem or a root cause of evil...
BUT.. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian SHITHOLE and there
is not one.. not a SINGLE ONE, redeeming atheist state, let alone
a great and enduring atheist civilisation...
you are a loser from a LONG and CONSISTENT tradition of losers! B^]
> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
Those atheist tyrants are responsible for 70,000,000 dead versus a
<300,000 Death toll from Hiroshima and Nagasaki:
"The bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in
Nagasaki by the end of 1945,[4] with roughly half of those deaths
occurring on the days of the bombings. Amongst these, 15�20% died from
injuries or the combined effects of flash burns, trauma, and radiation
burns, compounded by illness, malnutrition and radiation sickness.[5]
Since then, more have died from leukemia (231 observed) and solid
cancers (334 observed).
And the 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny were the CITIZENS
of those murderous atheist shitholes.. the US was at WAR, having been
ATTACKED BY JAPAN.. B^p Are you seriously claiming the USA should not
have FOUGHT BACK at the cruel Japanese who raped and tortured and
slaughtered they way through the Asia Pacific?
Go FUCK yerself, you moral defective!
why can't immoral atheist shitpigs grasp the fundamental DIFFERENCE?
> Surfer
Another CLUELESS atheist liar.
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> MarkA wrote:
>>
>>> Since by definition, atheism is an absence of belief, it can't be the
>>> real
>>> force behind anything.
>>
>> Dawkins and Hitchins published books prosletysing atheism
>> Atheists raised money to put their beliefs on the sides of buses..
>> they added the word "Probably.." to avoid being challenged to prove
>> their beliefs for which they have NO PROOF!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7842769.stm
An atheist UK bus campaign which uses the slogan
"There's probably no God, So Don't Worry, Be Happy"
has been found by the Advertising Standards Authority
to be OPINIONS which cannot be objectively substantiated!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHA
"the ASA ruled the adverts were an expression of the advertiser's
opinion and that the claims in it were not capable of objective
substantiation."
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
It's just as I said.. Atheists have BELIEFS, they put them on a bus sign!
And they CAN'T PROVE THEM!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!
PRICELESS!
More atheist beliefs in action, documented HISTORICAL REALITY:
>> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
>> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
>> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
>> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
>> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
>> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
>> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
>> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
>> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
>> # instead of the family.
>> #
>> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
>> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
> Anyone with even a few functional brain cells
I accept that Bukakke is the perfect choice of those with only
'a few functioning braincells' to be their Spokes-Orc! B^]
Because she is a mental, and moral, defective, she snips all the
facts, and gives us another UNFOUNDED ATHEIST **OPINION**
just like the ones the UK Advertising Standards Authority found
they were pasting on the sides of buses!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAA!
> atheism isn't a belief,
When the atheist Bus ads were revealed the false beliefs
motivating atheists were EXPOSED.. by none other than
Ariane Sherine, the now disgraced pinup girl of Militant Atheism;
# Subject: The False Beliefs of the Atheist cult exposed!
# - Ariane Sherine's Hysterical Campaign is a fraud!
# Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:55:10 +1100
# From: fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com>
# Message-ID: <496edde1$0$32007$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>
#
# Ariane Sherine's Atheist Belief Campaign exposed as a fraud!
#
# The systematic proselytising of atheist beliefs on English
# and Spanish buses has been publicly presented by Atheists,
# including Sherine herself, as a response to theist beliefs
# presented on the sides of buses which Sherine claims are so
# despairing that people might instantly throw themselves
# under the bus! 8^o
#
# Imagine you've had a really bad day, and it's only 8.30am.
# You've spilt killer orange juice all over your crucial
# work documents, you're pressed up in a tube train
# against a commuter whose armpit smells like a
# biological weapon, and you're late for work and
# your only excuse is "I glued my hand to a dog".
#
# You stumble out of the tube, and are confronted
# with the number 168 bus. It tells you that, along
# with your boss, a man with a beardy face is going
# to be upset with you, for ever, because you've
# refused to acknowledge his existence, despite
# the fact that he's too antisocial to come down
# here and say hi. You promptly throw yourself
# under the number 168 bus."
# - Ariane Sherine,
# The Guardian 20/6/2008
#
# That is the Atheist hysteric's own description of the effect
# she claimed the theist messages on London Buses could have!
# It's the absurdist rant of a blithering Lunatic!
# [In fact the "Advertising Standards Authority" had only ONE
# other complaint, and no suicides were reported! B^]
#
# The complete misrepresentation of the theist campaign becomes
# clear when you read it, and discover it is merely a QUESTION,
# inviting the readers response, and makes no mention of Hellfire
# or damnation:
#
# "Yesterday I walked to work and saw not one, but
# two London buses with the question:
# "When the son of man comes,
# will he find faith on the earth?"
# (Luke 18:8)." -ibid
#
# Hands up those of you who are terrified, in despair and suicidal
# after being asked that question.. apart from the atheists of course,
# who seem to be SHITTING THEMSELVES IN HYSTERICAL PANIC!
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAA!
#
# And the ridiculous fantasy that reading such an innocuous question
# will tip people into suicidal despair, is fully backed by Richard
# Dawkins,supported and FUNDED by the Atheist cult at large!
#
# Cult is the ONLY appropriate term for simple minded idiots
# who could, uncritically, accept such arrant NONSENSE on BLIND FAITH!
#
# And so, with no one throwing themselves under buses, or evening
# being worried enough to complain, in fact no evidence anyone except
# the Hysterical, lying Atheists gave a toss at all, the cult
# produced the first of their counter-beliefs.
#
# Apparently, they followed a website link to those who
# ran the ads, read the Bible and scared themselves stupid
# by their Fundie Literalist reading, (which precisely matches
# some of the Fundie Literalist theists! B^)
#
# Other atheists, clearly accepting the Official Atheist line
# without Question, have repeated her false claim that the Bus
# messages preach Hellfire and damnation:
#
# "Remember, that message of Hell is already being advertised on
# buses... the atheist ads were inspired by the Christian
# ads. " - Message-ID:
#<debf1465-8353-4036...@s14g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>
#
# Naturally the Atheist campaign is inspired by the Theist texts,
# that's where all their ideas come from.. if only they didn't
# misunderstand and misrepresent them so tragically
#
# http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/20/transport.religion
#
# Atheism: The Blind leading the Blind Faithful! B^D
> who actually need to make a case, which
> they've consistently failed to do.
Atheists never make a case... like Bukakke they snip all the facts
and RUN AWAY... Bukakke has been running from a request for PROOF
of her claims for MONTHS now:
#
# From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
# Subject: How Bukakke was humbled and crawled away in defeat!
# Message-ID: <H7bPl.11167$y61....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:05:27 GMT
Bukakke is STILL RUNNING! B^]
> atheists who have slaughtered millions,
In the USSR, Mao's Great Leap Backwards, Pol Pots Cambodian genocide
> it's
atheist
> megalomaniacs who have done this,
all
> of whom espoused atheism
> it is atheists, and
> only atheists who have killed millions.
No you pathetic moron!
Others have also killed millions, particularly in the barbaric
pre-literate world...
But the inescapable fact is that EVERY atheist regime has
been a mass murdering totalitarian tyranny.. there is no
democratic and free atheist nation, let alone a great and
enduring atheist civilisation... NOT ONE.. NOTHING redeems
the bloody slaughter of atheism, as history shows.
> Now let us compare that with
> the theist position.
Why? I'm an agonostic you gutless, lying, irrational fuckwit.
When will you IMMORAL MAGGOTS stop trying to excuse the atheist
DEATH TOLL OF MORE THAN 70,000,000 by claiming the theists
kileld 20,000 witches!! 8^o
You moral relativism is both abhorrent and irrational..
the crimes of medieval theists do not excuse those of
atheism IN THE MODERN ERA and are far less than the atheist
death toll anyway! B^p
> The theists are claiming that BILLIONS are
> condemned to *eternal* misery and suffering.
None of the theists I know claim that.. but ALL of the
atheist regimes have attempted to make it happen, and still are:
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
[Endless irrelevant knee-jerk non-sequiturs flushed where they belong]
> Budikka
Another trophy on my wall after she CUT and RUN from the first encounter
where I demanded PROOF of her claims and she had none. B^]
--
# Subject: How Bukakke was humbled and crawled away in defeat!
# From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
# Message-ID: <H7bPl.11167$y61....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:05:27 GMT
Bukakke started out full of arrogance and aggression
# Subject: Formal Debate Challenge to "fasgnadh"
# From: Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
# Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:21:28 -0700 (PDT)
# Message-ID:
# <be94a583-7dfb-414e-bff7-2e11a5c7c...@y71g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
#
#
# I've snipped the irrelevant politics groups, so now it's just you and
# me in alt.atheism.
I will put them back so EVERYONE can witness Bukakke BEATEN!
Bukakke made the challenge, so I chose the weapons.. Atheist History:
# From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
#
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion,aus.religion,
# alt.politics.communism,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,
# uk.politics.misc,aus.politics
# Subject: Atheist infanticide
# - "most horrific political crime of the 20th century"
# Message-ID: <kvxKl.7613$y61.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 07:27:12 GMT
#
# "Russia exonerates Tsar Nicholas II
#
# The Russian supreme court has ruled that the country's
# last tsar and his family must be recognised as victims
# of Soviet repression 90 years after they were executed
# by a Bolshevik firing squad.
#
#
# By Adrian Blomfield in Moscow
#
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3115053/Russia-exonerates-Tsar-Nicholas-II.html
#
#
#
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
#
#
# Tsar Nicholas II with his wife Tsarina Alexandra
# (background), the Tsaravitch (2nd from right)
# and his four daughters Photo: PA
#
# In an unexpected ruling, the court in Moscow declared
# that Nicholas II and the royal family had been killed
# illegally and are entitled to legal rehabilitation
# by the state.
#
# The decision brings to a close a decade-long campaign
# by the tsar's descendants to force the state to admit
# culpability for what many Russians regard as the single
# most horrific political crime of the 20th century."
#
#
# The children saw their father shot and "were stabbed
# with bayonets and then shot at close range in the head" by
# the big Brave atheists.
# Alexei was 13 and Anastasia 17
# - Massie, R, The Romanovs The Final Chapter, 6
#
# "It also represents a symbolic end to Russia's often
# tortured process of addressing the repressions of
# the Soviet era."
#
# Nothing as tortured as the atheist holocaust deniers
# trying to deny that the USSR was an atheist state! B^p
#
...
#
# Most historians say there is enough evidence to
# show that the executions were carried out on the
# orders of Lenin,"
#
# Trotsky confirmed it...
#
# "who is still widely revered in Russia."
#
# and by atheists who worship secular mass murderers;
#
# http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
#
# http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
And Bukakke showed atheists were still denying the terror,
torture and murder carried out by atheist thugs;
# From: Budikka <budik...@netscape.net>
# Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.politics.communism,uk.politics.misc,aus.politics
# Subject: Hey fasgnadh: Christian Infanticide: 276 Children Dead
# Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 02:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
# Message-ID:
<06bebb0c-c385-4d5a-ad60-8348e8339...@f1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>
#
# > the Russian Royal family with a handful of
# > children - who were Christians but behaved like despots
# >
# > Budikka
When I demanded evidence for Bukakke's claim that 12 year old
Alexi was a 'despot' who deserved be terrorised, tortured and
killed by the atheist Red Terror .. Bukakke ran from the field
never to be heard from again.
I have her shield, (a hammer and sickle on a field of red blood,
with a big Yellow stripe down it's back...;-) above my mantle piece
as a trophy.
When the blowhard issues anothehr empty challenge... rub it's
nose in this! B^]
Surfer
wrote:
>
>And the 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny were the CITIZENS
>of those murderous atheist shitholes..
>
You havn't provided any evidence for that claim.
In contrast, I provided evidence that Mao purged
Deng Xiaoping and rehabilitated him two times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping#Two_purges
So Mao was hardly the "murderer" you suggest.
Surfer
Virgil
fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
[snipped fasgnadh's dishonesties in just the way fasgnadh snips
everything that he cannot deal with honestly]
As a criterion for livability, being a MAJORITY RELIGIOUS SOCIETY is
irrelevant to atheists and agnostics, and even to theists unless their
own religion is dominant. What is highly relevant is having a STRONGLY
SECULAR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT which protects everyone from unwanted
religious pressures.
BOTTOM LINE:EVERYONE, except possibly members of a clearly majority
religion in a nation, prefers his or her nation to have a STRONGLY
SECULAR DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT.
Once having that, the nations distribution of religiousity is quite
IRRELEVANT, except possibly to a majority religion.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." --- Mark Twain"
I don�t think God exists, but if He does I�m glad that He�ll be my
judge instead of His followers"
"Every time I see a rainbow, I remember that it�s God�s way of saying
"I�m sorry, and I promise I won�t kill every living thing on Earth ever
again. Honest.�"
"Jesus was the bastard child of an unwed mother" -unknown
"The only problem with Baptists is that they don�t hold them under long
enough" -unknown
"If there�s no God, then who pops up the next Kleenex?" -unknown
"To you I�m an atheist; to God, I�m the loyal opposition" -Woody Allen?
"An agnostic is an atheist without the courage of his convictions" -
Woody Allen?
"Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very
efficient. There's a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning." -
Bill Gates
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil
things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
"What a queer thing is Christian salvation! Believing in firemen will
not save a burning house; believing in doctors will not make one well,
but believing in a savior saves men. Fudge!" -Lemuel Washburn
"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers
that may never be questioned." -Author Unknown
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the
point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The
happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality." -George
Bernard Shaw
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes." -James
Feibleman
"In Heaven all the interesting people are missing." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"I viewed my fellow man not as a fallen angel, but as a risen ape." -
Desmond Morris
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from
religious conviction." -Blaise Pascal
"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could
never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian
dogma." -Abraham Lincoln
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." -Thomas
Jefferson
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the
Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the
Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my
own church." -Thomas Paine
"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and
to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and
his children are smart." -Henry Mencken
"Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be
happy." -Henry Mencken
"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into
his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a
man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will
scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will
refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something
which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he
will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is
explained in this way." -Bertrand Russell
"Where knowledge ends, religion begins." -Benjamin Disraeli
"The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by Homo Sapiens is that
the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the
saccharine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their
prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet
this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster
it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive
industries in history." -Robert Heinlein
"I do not think that the real reason why people accept religion is
anything to do with argumentation. They accept religion on emotional
grounds. One is often told that it is a very wrong thing to attack
religion, because religion makes men virtuous. So I am told; I have not
noticed it." -Bertrand Russell
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." -Napoleon
Bonaparte
"Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your deity made
you in his image, I reply that he must have been very ugly." -Victor
Hugo
"Religion to me has always been the wound, not the bandage." -Dennis
Potter
"Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the
incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the
absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains." -Robert G. Ingersoll
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy,
education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would
indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment
and hope of reward after death." -Albert Einstein
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration -
courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the
truth." -Henry Mencken
"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and
common sense." -Francois Marie Arouet (Voltaire)
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet." -Napoleon
Bonaparte
"Our hope of immortality does not come from any religions, but nearly
all religions come from that hope." -Robert G. Ingersoll
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to
claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." -Cardinal Bellarmine
philosophy
> raven1 wrote:
> > On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> > <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
> >> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
What bullshit.
>
> > Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> > in the name of Communism, not atheism.
Also, at the end of the Cultural Revolution Mao was actually quite
nuts. He was working on getting himself deified. So, we could
almost say he was a theist.
>
Look chum. The people you are putting forward were political
wannabies. They were power hungry madmen who didn't care
about humanity.
Are you, with this rant, excusing what Hitler did?
Hitler was a Catholic.
Are you, with this rant, excusing what was done by the
Catholic Church during the inquisition?
Wake up to yourself.
I am an atheist, and I do not have any agendas.
All the people you cited had BIG agendas, just as the
ones I have cited.
Religions have agendas - the spread of their sick messages
and the harvesting of money from their followers.
Politicians have agendas - power.
Atheists are merely people who do not believe in a god.
It seems to me that in a very warped way, Lenin, Stalin and the
others you have mentioned are the other side of the coin from
your God - the Satanic side.
You poor ignorant fool.
philosophy
> MarkA wrote:
> > Since by definition, atheism is an absence of belief, it can't be the real
> > force behind anything.
>
> Dawkins and Hitchins published books prosletysing atheism
> Atheists raised money to put their beliefs on the sides of buses..
> they added the word "Probably.." to avoid being challenged to prove
> their beliefs for which they have NO PROOF!
>
> *BELIEF* can be a cause of action:
Putting a message on the side of the bus hardly rates as revolution.
>
> eg1 Lenin;
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> Ands the death of over 30,000,000 people
>
> eg2:
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> # Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1e4jbmlsqebu9j9...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> #
> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> Not satisfied with murder, Porn Queen Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> # Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv57fjcg60tufoa4...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> #
> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"# <blondes_gaulloi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> #
> # >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> #
> # It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
> # The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> > People are activists for their beliefs;
>
> Atheists sure are!
>
> #http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
> #
> # "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
> # by a government, typically by active suppression of
> # religious freedom and practice."
> # - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
> # Characteristics and Consequences,
> # David Kowalewski,
> # Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
> #
> #
> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodiaÿs Buddhist religion:
> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
> # instead of the family.
> #
> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Potÿs regime."
> # The Cambodian Genocide:http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millo...
>
> #
> # "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
> # regarded by the regime as social parasites,
> # were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
> # Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
> # destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
> # Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
> # rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
> # or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
> # were often killed.
> #
> # The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
> # persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
> # Phnom Penh was completely razed.
> #
> # The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
> # regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
> # Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
> # - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
> #
> # "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
> # because of their religion."
> #http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboy...
> #
> #
> # "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> # - Daniel Peris,
> # "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> # Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
> #
> #
> # "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
> # countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
> # Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
> # Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
> # promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
> # - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
> # Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
> #
> # In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
> # intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
philosophy
> Sandy Bloxs snipped and ran from the facts leaving:
> > Utter crap.
>
> Thanks for warning us about your post.
>
> Atheists snip the historical facts they can't rationally refute;
>
>
>
> > fasgnadh wrote:
> >> raven1 wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> >>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>
> >>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
> >>>> people.
>
> >>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> >>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>
> >> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
> >> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
> >> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
> >> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
> >> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>
> If it talks like an atheist, and snips and runs like an atheist, and
> terrorises, tortures and murders like an atheist.. it's probably an
> atheist!
If it talks like a Christian, and snips and runs like a Christian, and
terrorizes (spelling PLEASE), tortures and murders like a
Christian..... and smells as hypocritical as a
Christian ...............
it's a Christian (no probability about it).
>
> They haven't changed since the Union of Savage Slaughter and
> Repression (USSR), they are still hate filled thugs;
Christians and their Islamist lakeys haven't changed since the
time of the Crusades.
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> # Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1e4jbmlsqebu9j9...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> #
> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
I'll check him out. But if he's your alter ego, I won't be
impressed.
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> # Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv57fjcg60tufoa4...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> #
> >> “We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
> >> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >> “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
> >> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
>
> >> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >> - Daniel Peris,
> >> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>
> >> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>
> >> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
> >> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
> >> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
> >> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
> >> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>
> >> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
> >> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>
> > They were commies.
>
> Are you retarded? Which part of Lenin's confession don't you
> understand, because you clearly can't negate it:
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
philosophy
> Virgil reveals his gender bigotry, attempting to excuse atheist crimes:
>
> > fasgnadh destroyed ravin' one's lies:
> >> raven1 wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> >>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>
> >>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
> >>>> people.
>
> >>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> >>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>
> >> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
> >> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
> >> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
> >> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
> >> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>
> > Note that they were also all males,
>
> No they weren't, Madame Mao wasn't a male, but she was an atheist.
Madame Mao was worse than her husband, and both were
communists.
>
> your logic is pathetic and completely faulty.
Talking about yourself I see.
>
> Thanks for helping to highlight the horrors of the atheist tyrannies
> of the 20th century..
Yup... you're nuts. They were Political disasters.
Nothing to do with religion or lack of.
>
> No one believes your desperate propaganda, but it is amusing to watch
> you desperate losers all snip the facts and run from what you cannot
> refute! B^}
Interesting that you use the word "propaganda". That's usually, but
not
always used in Politics.
>
> You must be weary of repeated public humiliation, especially when I have
> defeated ALL your Chumpions, and filled your NG, which you pack-hunting
> thugs once used to gang-rape hapless theists, into an open haven for
> unfettered free speech, when the atheist tyrannies are exposed, along
> with the thuggery, lies and Pravda Propaganda of all the hate filled
> militant atheists whose nonsense I have eviscerated! B^]
My my, you do have a hate problem. Now if you are really serious
about
putting Atheists in their place, I suggest you visit the Google Group
called atheism-vs-christianty and enjoy yourself.
http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity/topics
>
> > so that maleness is equally culpable.
>
> You really are the most illogical idiot in Usenet! B^D
>
> Males are responsible for open democratic, pluralist majority
> religious societies, based on rule of Law and Human rights, as well..
Males like you are misogonistic morons who give your fellow
males a bad name.
>
> but atheists aren't. EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian tyranny!
There is NO such thing as an atheist regime.
>
> 100% catastrophic FAILURES!
Like YOU!
>
> Males have inspired and produced great and enduring civilisations..
> atheists have not.. they are useless parasites. B^]
How can you equate males and atheism in the same breath.
They are two completely different things.
I think you need to start taking your meds again. You are really
off the planet.
>
> >> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> >> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Lenin was a nut case. He was also a politician.
You are holding Lenin up as some sort of authority. Why?
Is he your hero?
Look at the quote. He has mixed religion and politics.
Stupid thing to do at any time.
>
> >> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> >> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Aah, that's where you got the word "propaganda" from.
Chuckle. Do you have boy thing for Lenin?
>
> >> Looks like the 30,000,000 dead in the USSR were clearly IN THE NAME OF
> >> ATHEISM! B^p
Bullshit. It was in the name of politics and power.
>
> Atheists remain disturbed and violent sociopaths;
Boy, it takes one to know one. Finally you are admitting you are a
sociopath. No wonder the ranting and the raving.
I note that the rest of this is just cut and paste.
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> # Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1e4jbmlsqebu9j9...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> #
> # We kill theists and shit down their throats and
> # not in a girly way.
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> # Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv57fjcg60tufoa4...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> #
> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"# <blondes_gaulloi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> #
> # >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> #
> # It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
> # The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
>
>
> >> "there is no God...
> >> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
> >> - Stalin
> >> E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
> >> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>
> >> But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
> >> but of the entire State apparatus;
>
> >> The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
> >> the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
> >> every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
> >> and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
>
> >> “We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
> >> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >> “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
> >> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
>
> >> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >> - Daniel Peris,
> >> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>
> >> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>
> >> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
> >> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
> >> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
> >> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
> >> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>
> >> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
> >> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>
> > They were all males, too,
>
> Crap. Madame Mao was just one of the female atheists in the
> party leadership. ALL the tyrants were ATHEISTS, though! 8^o
>
> Thanks for helping to underline the culpability of ATHEISTS!
>
> > so that maleness is equally responsible for
> > all those deaths.
>
> Why do you so hate males that you would LIE to try and protect
> the evil atheist regimes.. is it because you are jealous than
> men have what you lack, .... balls!!!!?!!! B^D
>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
philosophy
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> >> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> >> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> >> #
> >> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> >> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> >> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> >> #
> >> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
> >>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
>
> >>>> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >>>> - Daniel Peris,
> >>>> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >>>> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>
> >>>> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>
> >>>> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
> >>>> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
> >>>> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
> >>>> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
> >>>> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>
> >>>> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
> >>>> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>
> >>> They were commies.
>
> >> Are you retarded? Which part of Lenin's confession don't you
> >> understand, because you clearly can't negate it:
>
> >> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> >> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> >> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> >> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> >> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> >> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> Virgil forged and fabricated:
>
>
>
> # - American Sociological Association, ASA NEWS
> #
> # "A survey by sociologists at the University of Minnesota
> # "From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households,
> # university researchers found that Americans rate atheists
> # below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and
> # American society.”
> #
> # Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are
> # least willing to allow their children to marry.
> #
> # Even though atheists are few in number, not formally
> # organized and relatively hard to publicly identify,
> # they are seen as a threat to the American way of life
> # by a large portion of the American public.
> #
> # an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal
> # behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
> #
> # Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting
> # social disorder is behind the findings.
> # procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an
> # understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our
> # findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as
> # self-interested individuals who are not concerned
> #
> # The study is co-authored by assistant professor
> # Joseph Gerteis and associate professor Doug Hartmann.
> # the American Mosaic Project, a three-year project funded
> # by the Minneapolis-based David Edelstein Family Foundation
> # that looks at race, religion and cultural diversity in
> # the contemporary United States."
>
> --
>
> 95 Theses for Atheist Reformation
>
> All belief systems ossify over time.
>
> Jesus taught that Love came before politics and wealth,
> but his church pursued the latter.
>
> Mohammed brought revolutionary rights for women, but his
> followers wound them back in favour of traditional male privilege.
>
> And atheism, once a tiny and ineffectual offshoot of Greek philosophy
> has devolved into a series of dreadful totalitarian tyrannies.
No. You too are mixing religion and politics.
It seems to me that religion and politics should NEVER be
mixed. We all need to live in secular societies so this sort
of nonsense does not occur again - under any guise.
>
> What is required is Reformation. In religion this is achieved by
> progressive revelation.. the Divine CYCLE of revival and rebirth;
> Springtime, Summer, Autumn, Winter
>
> In atheism guidance must come from a lesser source;
>
> The Atheist Reformation Movement - ARM
>
> Gentleman, TO ARMs!
>
> Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Blogs of Reform!
>
> fasgnadh wrote:
>
> # By the time we get to the Enlightenment people understood that
> # a God who stops you from hitting the ground when you fall over,
> # is a puppet master controlling automatons, not the creator
> # of autonomous beings with free will and responsibility.
> #
> # Still the atheists cling to their simplistic caricatures.
> #
> # They even blame the god they claim not to ...
>
> read more »
philosophy
> Don Martin babbled pointlessly:
>
>
>
> > <hysteria ranted:
> >> fasgnadh wrote:
> >>> Sandy SnotBloxs snipped and ran from the facts leaving:
> >>>> Utter crap.
>
> >>> Thanks for warning us about your post.
>
> >>> Atheists snip the historical facts they can't rationally refute;
>
> >>>> fasgnadh wrote:
> >>>>> raven1 wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> >>>>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
> >>>>>>> people.
>
> >>>>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> >>>>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>
> >>>>> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
> >>>>> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
> >>>>> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
> >>>>> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
> >>>>> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>
> If it talks like an atheist, and snips and runs like an atheist, and
> terrorises, tortures and murders like an atheist.. it's probably an
> atheist!
Here we go again.
If it talks like a theist, and snips and runs like a theist, and
smells
like a theist, and terrorizes, tortures and murders like a theist,
it's a theist.
The rest is your cut and paste crap.
>
> They haven't changed since the Union of Savage Slaughter and
> Repression (USSR), they are still hate filled thugs;
>
> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> # Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1e4jbmlsqebu9j9...@4ax.com>
> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> #
> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> #
> # Warlord Steve
> # BAAWA
>
> Not satisfied with murder, Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
>
>
> >>> # From: Steve Knight <sknigh...@cox.net>
> >>> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> >>> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> >>> # Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv57fjcg60tufoa4...@4ax.com>
> >>> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> >>> #
> >>> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
> >>>>> “We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
> >>>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >>>>> “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
> >>>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
philosophy
Excellent Budikka - love the 666!! :-)
philosophy
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism
> >> # Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
> >> # Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
> >> #
> >> # We kill theists and shit down their throats
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >> Not satisfied with murder, Porn Queen Steve favours GENOCIDE
>
> >> # Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
> >> # Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> >> # Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
> >> #
> >> # On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
> >> #
> >> # >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
> >> #
> >> # It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
> >> # The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
> >> #
> >> # Warlord Steve
> >> # BAAWA
>
> >>> People are activists for their beliefs;
>
> >> Atheists sure are!
>
> >> #
> >> # "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
> >> # by a government, typically by active suppression of
> >> # religious freedom and practice."
> >> # - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
> >> # Characteristics and Consequences,
> >> # David Kowalewski,
> >> # Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
> >> #
> >> #
> >> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
> >> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
> >> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
> >> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
> >> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
> >> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
> >> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
> >> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
> >> # instead of the family.
> >> #
> >> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
> >> # - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
> >> #
> >> # The Cambodian Genocide:
>
> >> #
> >> # "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
> >> # regarded by the regime as social parasites,
> >> # were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
> >> # Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
> >> # destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
> >> # Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
> >> # rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
> >> # or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
> >> # were often killed.
> >> #
> >> # The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
> >> # persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
> >> # Phnom Penh was completely razed.
> >> #
> >> # The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
> >> # regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
> >> # Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
> >> # - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
> >> #
> >> # "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
> >> # because of their religion."
> >> #
Oh you have it BAD. You must hate the world you poor imbecile.
A bus campaign is not militant, and its not political, and its not
religious.
>
> # Subject: The False Beliefs of the Atheist cult exposed!
> # - Ariane Sherine's Hysterical Campaign is a fraud!
> # Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:55:10 +1100
> # From: fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com>
> # Message-ID: <496edde1$0$32007$afc38...@news.optusnet.com.au>
> ...
>
> read more »
philosophy
> >> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
> injuries or the combined effects of flash burns, trauma, and radiation
> burns, compounded by illness, malnutrition and radiation sickness.[5]
> Since then, more have died from leukemia (231 observed) and solid
> cancers (334 observed).
>
> And the 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny were the CITIZENS
> of those murderous atheist shitholes.. the US was at WAR, having been
> ATTACKED BY JAPAN.. B^p Are you seriously claiming the USA should not
> have FOUGHT BACK at the cruel Japanese who raped and tortured and
> slaughtered they way through the Asia Pacific?
>
> Go FUCK yerself, you moral defective!
Oh, such Christian love - I'm amazed.
You are a true modern version of the murderous intent which
lay behind the inquisition, and as Budikka said, yours is the
religion that damns billions of people to hell and damnation.
Well, up yours chum. You can live in the over-riding hate
and fear it generates. Your choice.
>
> why can't immoral atheist shitpigs grasp the fundamental DIFFERENCE?
>
> > Surfer
>
> Another CLUELESS atheist liar.
>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
philosophy
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:26:01 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >And the 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny were the CITIZENS
> >of those murderous atheist shitholes..
>
> You havn't provided any evidence for that claim.
>
> In contrast, I provided evidence that Mao purged
>
> So Mao was hardly the "murderer" you suggest.
Actually Surfer, have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Swans
>
> Surfer
fasgnadh
>> ATTACKED BY JAPAN.. B^p Are you seriously claiming the USA
>> who raped and tortured and
>> slaughtered they way through the Asia Pacific?
> You havn't provided any evidence for that claim.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA
You SNIPPED all the evidence I provided without REFUTING
a SINGLE fact.. and now.. with it all STILL UNDISPUTED
by you.. you RUN AWAY from the questions put to you and
demand MORE of the evidence tyou have already been unable to handle!
B^D What an idiotic infant!
The more evidence provided, the faster you weak, immoral
shitpigs will SNIP it and RUN AWAY.. atheists are intellectual
and moral defectives who cannot sustain a serious rational
argument.. so here's how to repel lying atheists, who respond
to HISTORICAL FACTS like vampires do to Holy Water and Daylight;
This is a compilation of data from peer reviewed historians
using primary data sources. The CONSERVATIVE estimate for
the death toll in atheist regimes is over 70,000,000 in seven
decades; suck it up and CHOKE on it! B^]
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]
* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.
# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]
* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M
######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################
# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):
40 000 000
* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,
1959-61:
+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")
+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths
+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"
+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths
* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)
Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes run by athiest leaders and totalitarian
Central Comittees who were 100% atheists, who made the lives of their
victims such misery and despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled
from their own evil and incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck
off the filthy atheist shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path
more tolerant of religion.. since then their nations have prospered..
still suffering the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of
Civilisation and making progress!!
Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not your IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretin.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering millions
of it's citizens!
Off you go you snivelling atheist fraud!
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#RCW
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#ww2ussr
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Mao
> So Mao was hardly the "murderer" you suggest.
>>
fasgnadh
All that atheists have is LIES, abuse, slander and FORGERY! B^]
Give them enough rope and they hang themselves in their
webs of deception. B^)
>>> you wrote all the stupid crap
>>
>> He's even less intelligent than you.
>>
>> Neither of you are capable of rationally refuting a single fact about
>> historical atheist tyrannies! B^]
>
> I don�t think
That much is evident from your posts. Your confession is redundant.
> God exists,
You are the most confused atheist on the planet! B^D
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
#
# I am agnostic and only an atheist sympathizer.
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
# If you deny being atheist, then you are automatically among
# the host of idiot theists.
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
# There is no middle ground between atheism and theism.
# But unless you actually believe in some god(s), you ARE atheist.
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
#
# I am agnostic
#
# The reality is that when you have deny being atheist, as you have done
# above, you are then theist by default.
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH!
Priceless!
And the is the LEADING ATHEIST 'INTERLECTURAL'!!! B^D
A sub-epsilon moron!
> "Every time I see a rainbow, I remember that it�s God�s
# From: Virgil <Vir...@home.esc>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.agnosticism
# Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:59:25 -0600
# Message-ID: <Virgil-6F220A....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>
#
#
# I am agnostic and only an atheist sympathizer.
#
# If you deny being atheist, then you are automatically among
# the host of idiot theists.
#
# The reality is that when you have deny being atheist, as you have done
# above, you are then theist by default.
B^D Atheists are irrational and confused dimwits!
Q.E.D.
fasgnadh
> On Nov 18, 7:04 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> Don Martin babbled pointlessly:
>>> <hysteria ranted:
>>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>> Sandy SnotBloxs snipped and ran from the facts leaving:
>>>>>> Utter crap.
>>>>> Thanks for warning us about your post.
>>>>> Atheists snip the historical facts they can't rationally refute;
>
snigger! B^]
>>>>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>>>>> raven1 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
>>>>>>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
>>>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>>>>>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>>>>>>> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>>>>>>> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
>>>>>>> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
>>>>>>> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
>>>>>>> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>> If it talks like an atheist, and snips and runs like an atheist, and
>> terrorises, tortures and murders like an atheist.. it's probably an
>> atheist!
>
> Here we go again.
Why do you bother, you are another lightweight without
and argument or a clue, your moronic imitation of a parrot
would be merely unoriginal and derivative, were it not for
your terminal stupidity.. {hint.. ..I'm an agnostic. B^}
> If it talks like a theist,
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA
The problem with sticking your head SO FAR up your own arse
is that you end up with a face covered in SHIT! B^]
Run along lightweight.. Next irrational atheist fuckwit, please! B^D
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
> and snips and runs like a theist,
Next time you try your Kindergarten "Nyah Nyah, no YOU are!"
you should check that the person you are lying about actually
IS a theist! All the people I wrote about ARE atheists! B^]
Boy.. do you look STUPID! B^D
>
> The rest is
all the facts you can't refute, showing your chosen atheist psycho
advocating murder, desecration of dead bodies (pretty much what you do
when you hump Virgil ;-) and GENOCIDE... the usual atheist policies! B^]
Genocide is an ATHEIST TRADITION;
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia�s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot�s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> Looks like the 30,000,000 dead in the USSR were clearly IN THE NAME
>>>>>>> OF ATHEISM! B^p
>>>>>>> "there is no God...
>>>>>>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
>>>>>>> - Stalin
>>>>>>> E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>>>>>>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>>>>>>> But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
>>>>>>> but of the entire State apparatus;
>>>>>>> The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
>>>>>>> the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
>>>>>>> every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
>>>>>>> and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
>>>>>>> �We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
>>>>>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
>>>>>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>>>>>>> �Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
>>>>>>> and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
philosophy
> >>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
> >> injuries or the combined effects of flash burns, trauma, and radiation
> >> burns, compounded by illness, malnutrition and radiation sickness.[5]
> >> Since then, more have died from leukemia (231 observed) and solid
> >> cancers (334 observed).
>
> >> And the 70,000,000 victims of atheist tyranny were the CITIZENS
> >> of those murderous atheist shitholes.. the US was at WAR, having been
>
> >> ATTACKED BY JAPAN.. B^p Are you seriously claiming the USA
> >> should not have FOUGHT BACK against the cruel Japanese
> >> who raped and tortured and
> >> slaughtered they way through the Asia Pacific?
>
> > You havn't provided any evidence for that claim.
>
> BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA
>
the difference between communism (political), socialism (political)
theism (religion), Islamism (religion), Christianity (religion) and
atheism (absence of religion as defined by religious practitioners).
DON'T mix politics and religion. If you do you will not see clearly.
This is what has happened to you,
Change it.
> You SNIPPED all the evidence I provided without REFUTING
> a SINGLE fact.. and now.. with it all STILL UNDISPUTED
> by you.. you RUN AWAY from the questions put to you and
> demand MORE of the evidence tyou have already been unable to handle!
>
> B^D What an idiotic infant!
>
> The more evidence provided, the faster you weak, immoral
> shitpigs will SNIP it and RUN AWAY.. atheists are intellectual
> and moral defectives who cannot sustain a serious rational
> argument.. so here's how to repel lying atheists, who respond
> to HISTORICAL FACTS like vampires do to Holy Water and Daylight;
>
> This is a compilation of data from peer reviewed historians
> using primary data sources. The CONSERVATIVE estimate for
> the death toll in atheist regimes is over 70,000,000 in seven
> decades; suck it up and CHOKE on it! B^]
>
> First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;
>
> # Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]
>
> * Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
> * Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
> (1996)
> [http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russia...]:
> ...
>
> read more »
philosophy
Abuse me as much as you like.
You are not agnostic.
If you were you would not be ranting about atheism
as if it were a religion.
I suggest you look up a dictionary.
Your claim is irrational.
> #http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
> #
> # "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
> # by a government, typically by active suppression of
> # religious freedom and practice."
> # - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
> # Characteristics and Consequences,
> # David Kowalewski,
> # Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
> #
> #
> # "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
> # monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
> # Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
> # other religious sentiments were often killed.
> # ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
> # and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
> # and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
> # starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
> # prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
> # instead of the family.
> #
> # About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
> # were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
> # The Cambodian Genocide:http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millo...
>
> #
> # "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
> # regarded by the regime as social parasites,
> # were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
> # Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
> # destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
> # Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
> # rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
> # or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
> # were often killed.
> #
> # The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
> # persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
> # Phnom Penh was completely razed.
> #
> # The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
> # regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
> # Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
> # - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
> #
> # "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
> # because of their religion."
> #http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboy...
> >>>>>>> “We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
> >>>>>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>>>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
> >>>>>>> “Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
> >>>>>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
> ...
>
> read more »
Surfer
wrote:
>
>The two schools are generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
>spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
>prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
>a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
>Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
>
That's my impression.
fasgnadh
> Sandy snotBloxs gave himself a poke:
>> Sandy snotBloxs snipped and ignore:
>>> fasgnadh wrote:
>>>> raven1 wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
>>>>> <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
>>>>> in the name of Communism, not atheism.
>>>>
>>>> Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>>>> Pol Pot was an atheist, they were atheist leaders of totalitarian
>>>> atheist states in which every member of the ruling Central Committee
>>>> was an atheist, implementing the persecution of theists by terror,
>>>> torture and mass murder with over 70,000,000 dead;
>>> Utter crap.
Yes EVERY atheist regime has been UTTER CRAP! B^D
>>> They were commies.
We have them, documented, admitting that ATHEISM is an inseperable
part of their government, it's tyrannical policies and its MURDEROUS
actions;
>>>> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
>>>> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>>>
>>>> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
>>>> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>>>>
>>>> Looks like the 30,000,000 dead in the USSR were clearly IN THE NAME OF
>>>> ATHEISM! B^p
>>>>
>>>> "there is no God...
>>>> all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
>>>> - Stalin
>>>> E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
>>>> Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
>>>>
>>>> But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
>>>> but of the entire State apparatus;
>>>>
>>>> The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
>>>> the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
>>>> every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
>>>> and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
>>>>
>>>> �We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
>>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.�
>>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>>>>
>>>> �Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
>>>> and God from Heaven!� (early Soviet slogan)
>>>>
>>>> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
>>>> - Daniel Peris,
>>>> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
>>>> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>>>>
>>>> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>>>>
>>>> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
>>>> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
>>>> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
>>>> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
>>>> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>>>>
>>>> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
>>>> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>>
>> nudge!
I doubt if hitting you around the head with facts will EVER do any good,
you are a brain-dead lying cretin.. i.e. an atheist! B^]
> Atheism is a lack of something,
It's called HONESTY and INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY! B^]
Atheists also lack reason, courage and anything faintly approaching
usefulness.
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
philosophy
> >>>> WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
> >>>> -Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
>
> >>>> and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
>
> >>>> "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
> >>>> - Daniel Peris,
> >>>> "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
> >>>> Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
>
> >>>> "Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
>
> >>>> "Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
> >>>> In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
> >>>> 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
> >>>> Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
> >>>> in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
>
> >>>> - John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
> >>>> (Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
>
> >> nudge!
>
> I doubt if hitting you around the head with facts will EVER do any good,
> you are a brain-dead lying cretin.. i.e. an atheist! B^]
>
> > Atheism is a lack of something,
>
> It's called HONESTY and INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY! B^]
>
> Atheists also lack reason, courage and anything faintly approaching
> usefulness.
A theist also lacks reason, courage and anything faintly approaching
usefulness.
Now we can agree on something.
>
> --
>
> alt.atheism FAQ:
>
> http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl...
>
> "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
> -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
>
> "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
> - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
>
> "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
> - Lenin
>
> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
>
> http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-fa...
Frankie Lee
> In article <WMOMm.55674$ze1.16...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
** No wonder you lack intelligence after having gone through such
poisonous words from the dark world.
Frankie Lee
> On Nov 17, 6:48 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> > raven1 wrote:
> > > On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> > > <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
> > >> Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.
>
> What bullshit.
>
>
>
> > > Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
> > > in the name of Communism, not atheism.
> Also, at the end of the Cultural Revolution Mao was actually quite
> nuts. He was working on getting himself deified. So, we could
> almost say he was a theist.
>
Frankie: I wonder you understood the whole idea of your logic?
Frankie Lee
time of the Crusades.
Frankie; Now I understand why hate the Founding Fathers of USA,who
were CHRISTIANS and how they gave Americans freedom which you hated it
so much that you people keep hoping that Kim Jong Ill ruled USA
because he is an Atheist.
You guys must be hating USA for making the country so prosperous,and
using In God we Trust notes.
In essence,you guys just hate what is sane,good and decent.
Robibnikoff
"Frankie Lee" <leea...@yahoo.com> lied:
Frankie; Now I understand why hate the Founding Fathers of USA,who
were CHRISTIANS
Except that they weren't, frankie.
And why would you give a shit what the founding fathers of the USA were or
weren't?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & Belly Dancer Supreme
BAAWA Knight
#1557
Robibnikoff
Virgil
<b65bb15f-ac5c-41d3...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
Frankie Lee <leea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 4:37�pm, philosophy <catswhisker...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 6:48�pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > > raven1 wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:26:29 +0100 (CET), George Orwell
> > > > <nob...@mixmaster.it> wrote:
> > > >> Collectively these tyrants murdered more than 100 million
> > > >> people.
> >
> > What bullshit.
> >
> >
> >
Lenin, Stalin and Mao's crimes were committed
in the name of Communism, not atheism.
> > Also, at the end of the Cultural Revolution Mao was actually quite
> > nuts. �He was working on getting himself deified. So, we could
> > almost say he was a theist.
> >
> Frankie: I wonder you understood the whole idea of your logic?
>
# From Bertrand Russell, in his "Unpopular Essays", in chapter on
"Eminent
Men I Have Known" -
"Lenin supposed himself to be an atheist, but in this he was mistaken.
He thought that the world was governed by the dialectic, whose
instrument he
was; just as much as Gladstone, he conceived of himself as the human
agent
of a superhuman Power."
>
>
> >
> >
> > Look chum. The people you are putting forward were political
> > wannabies. �They were power hungry madmen who didn't care
> > about humanity.
> >
> > Are you, with this rant, excusing what Hitler did?
> > Hitler was a Catholic.
> >
> > Are you, with this rant, excusing what was done by the
> > Catholic Church during the inquisition?
> >
> > Wake up to yourself.
> >
> > I am an atheist, and I do not have any agendas.
> > All the people you cited had BIG agendas, just as the
> > ones I have cited.
> >
> > Religions have agendas - the spread of their sick messages
> > and the harvesting of money from their followers.
> >
> > Politicians have agendas - power.
> >
> > Atheists are merely people who do not believe in a god.
> >
> > It seems to me that in a very warped way, Lenin, Stalin and the
> > others you have mentioned are the other side of the coin from
> > your God - the Satanic side.
> > You poor ignorant fool.
Right, They worshiped ideas as gods. Such idealogues can be quite as
vicious and tyrannical as theist tyrants.
Virgil
<13863525-cf8f-4821...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Frankie Lee <leea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I escaped from your dark world while still quite young, well before it
had had a chance to poison my intellect as it has obviously done yours..
Andre Lieven
> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 17, 11:21 am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>
> >> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>
>
> >only
> >warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
>
> What a "good christian" you are. You lie about what he wrote and
> then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
Um... Did you even read what I, and not someone else, wrote ?
Like the parts about HIroshima being a legitimate military target ?
Plus, I'm no christian, I'm an atheist.
> And, of course, Hitler was no atheist and carried out his religious
> mania to the tune of several million dead Jews. But then he was just
> continuing a long christian tradition of persecuting Jews.
Sure. I never said otherwise.
Andre
Ray Fischer
>On Nov 17, 1:06�pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> Andre Lieven �<andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >On Nov 17, 11:21�am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>>
>> >> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
>> >> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>>
>> >> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
>>
>> >Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
>> >only
>> >warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
>>
>> What a "good christian" you are. �You lie about what he wrote and
>> then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
>
>Um... Did you even read what I, and not someone else, wrote ?
You're a religious bigot. That's all we need to know.
>Like the parts about HIroshima being a legitimate military target ?
And there is the proof that you are no Christian.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Andre Lieven
lunatic-ed:
> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 17, 1:06 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> >> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> >On Nov 17, 11:21 am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>
> >> >> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
> >> >> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>
> >> >> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
>
> >> >Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
> >> >only
> >> >warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
>
> >> What a "good christian" you are. You lie about what he wrote and
> >> then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
>
> >Um... Did you even read what I, and not someone else, wrote ?
>
> You're a religious bigot. That's all we need to know.
"What is ASSerted without evidence can be dismissed without
evidence." Christopher Hitchens.
> >Like the parts about HIroshima being a legitimate military target ?
>
> And there is the proof that you are no Christian.
Well, duh, I have said that I am an atheist. Doofus.
As for the military issues of the bombing of Hiroshima, I suggest that
you bone up on the Potsdam Declaration, and Japan's refusal to
consider it.
Thus, Hiroshima is a *consequence* of Japan's rulers' refusal to
face reality, that the war that THEY had started was well past lost
to them.
Note, as well, that even AFTER TWO A Bombs were used, there
was an attempted coup to prevent the Emperor from ordering the
surrender. Pray provide how you would have overcome that kind
of Japanese refusal to face reality, had the Bombs NOT been
dropped.
Uh huh.
Andre
Ray Fischer
>On Dec 2, 11:14�pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) spectacularly
>lunatic-ed:
>> Andre Lieven �<andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >On Nov 17, 1:06�pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> >> Andre Lieven �<andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Nov 17, 11:21�am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
>> >> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
>> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>>
>> >> >> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
>> >> >> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>>
>> >> >> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
>>
>> >> >Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
>> >> >only
>> >> >warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
>>
>> >> What a "good christian" you are. �You lie about what he wrote and
>> >> then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
>>
>> >Um... Did you even read what I, and not someone else, wrote ?
>>
>> You're a religious bigot. �That's all we need to know.
>
>"What is ASSerted without evidence can be dismissed without
>evidence." Christopher Hitchens.
That leaves you without anything worth considering.
>> >Like the parts about HIroshima being a legitimate military target ?
>>
>> And there is the proof that you are no Christian.
>
>Well, duh, I have said that I am an atheist. Doofus.
A genocidal nutbar.
>As for the military issues of the bombing of Hiroshima,
Spare us the self-sefving rationalization.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Andre Lieven
> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >On Dec 2, 11:14 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) spectacularly
> >lunatic-ed:
> >> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> >On Nov 17, 1:06 pm, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> >> >> Andre Lieven <andrelie...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Nov 17, 11:21 am, Surfer <n...@spam.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:48:29 GMT, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au>
> >> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >Lenin was an atheist, Stalin was an atheist, Mao was an atheist,
>
> >> >> >> I believe President Truman was a Christian, but that didn't stop him
> >> >> >> nuking two cities of non-combatent women and children.
>
> >> >> >> Lenin, Stalin and Mao were not quite as ruthless as that.
>
> >> >> >Well, that's just not true even a little bit. Truman, after all, not
> >> >> >only
> >> >> >warned the nation that attacked his, that worse was to come if they
>
> >> >> What a "good christian" you are. You lie about what he wrote and
> >> >> then you make excuses and confirm what he wrote.
>
> >> >Um... Did you even read what I, and not someone else, wrote ?
>
> >> You're a religious bigot. That's all we need to know.
>
> >"What is ASSerted without evidence can be dismissed without
> >evidence." Christopher Hitchens.
>
> That leaves you without anything worth considering.
<Massive Lunatic Projection>
> >> >Like the parts about HIroshima being a legitimate military target ?
>
> >> And there is the proof that you are no Christian.
>
> >Well, duh, I have said that I am an atheist. Doofus.
>
> A genocidal nutbar.
<Massive Lunatic Projection>
Thank you for showing that ALL you offer is Ad Hominem Alone.
> >As for the military issues of the bombing of Hiroshima,
>
> Spare us the self-sefving rationalization.
OK, so you wish to ignore history in support of your screeching
lunacy.
So be it: PLONK.
Andre