Victims of Rudy Koss and the Diocese of Dallas
Stephen Cadigan
I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on the verdict against the Diocese of
Dallas. By way of background, I am a life long Roman Catholic born,
baptized, raised, and still live in Dallas. These are some of the
questions that I have posed to the Diocese of Dallas. Please cc me in your
reply. I have included the site and a copy of the text of the article.
Sorry this post to so large.
This is indeed a very dark and choatic time for the Dallas diocese,
however the Kos trial/verdict has left me with several questions that I'd
appreciate help with. I ask for answers to these questions, not only for
myself, but also for my non-Catholic friends, who are/will be asking me.
1. Why was this case allowed to go to trial?
2. What prevented an out of court settlement from being reached?
3. Why was it necessary for the Bishop to mention an appeal immediately
following the verdict?
4. What legal issues does the diocese hope to bring to light during an
appeal?
5. Does the diocese really believe that an appeal is in the best interests
of the Church?
6. Why won't the diocese let this disgrace end, pay the verdict, establish
a center for child abuse and child counseling, and let the healing process
begin?
7. Why did Monsignor Bell and not Bishop Grahmann issue an apology? I'm
glad someone apologized, but why not the Bishop?
8. Immedialtey after the verdict was read, why didn't Bishop Grahmann
humble himself, walk over to each plaintiff, make a sincere apology, beg
for forgiveness, and seek to contact them within the next week regarding
counseling? Marching out of the courtroom, refusing to listen to the jury's
plea, and then issuing a short statement seems inappropriate.
A life-long Catholic born and baptized here in Dallas, I'd like to give
the Bishop the benefit of the doubt. However, throughout the trial, he
appeared evasive during questioning and appeared to remain defiant to the
end.
I am certain that the Bishop is a much more compassionate man than he let
on during the trial, but the victims of Mr. Kos deserve better.
Stephen Cadigan
scad...@nospam.ix.netcom.com {remove "no spam." before replying}
The following is a copy of the headlines from this morning's the Dallas
Morning News:
http://www.dallasnews.com/metro-dfw-nf/dfw11.htm
Kos jury awards $119 million
Diocese found grossly negligent; sex abuse judgment largest of its kind
07/25/97
By Ed Housewright and Brooks Egerton / The Dallas Morning News
Jurors awarded 11 plaintiffs in a sexual-abuse civil case $119.6 million
Thursday after unanimously finding that the Dallas Catholic Diocese
committed "gross negligence" and concealed information in its handling of
former priest Rudolph "Rudy" Kos.
The verdict, which includes $18 million in punitive damages against the
diocese, is the largest judgment ever in a clergy sexual molestation case
in the country.
The diocese's attorney, Randal Mathis, vowed to appeal the verdict to the
U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary, although he told the jury, "There's
absolutely no doubt the diocese received your message very, very clearly."
Windle Turley, who represented eight of the plaintiffs during the 11-week
trial, said, "We asked this jury to speak to the world, and they have done
that."
"This verdict gives a clear voice to the conscience of our community about
the sexual abuse of children," said Sylvia Demarest, who represented the
other three plaintiffs.
In a resounding defeat for the Dallas Diocese, the jury of 10 women and two
men answered all the questions in its charge in favor of the plaintiffs.
Mr. Kos was found partly responsible for injuries to the plaintiffs, but
the jury apportioned the majority of responsibility to the diocese.
Jurors asked state District Judge Anne Ashby to read in open court a
statement in which they admonished the diocese. Noting "the child is of the
utmost importance," the jurors urged the diocese to institute stricter
rules to protect children from sexual abuse.
"Please admit your guilt and allow these young men to get on with their
lives," the jurors wrote.
The courtroom, filled with the plaintiffs, their families and friends,
erupted in a 30-second standing ovation.
Jurors expressed disappointment that Bishop Charles Grahmann, who became
head of the diocese in 1990, did not stay to hear the judge read their
statement. While they were composing it, the bishop read his own statement
in an adjoining courtroom, then left after taking no questions from
reporters.
"The Diocese of Dallas remains committed to abiding by the final outcome of
this case," said Bishop Grahmann in a prepared statement. "Even though the
judicial process will continue, we assure all victims, including the
parties in this case, that we will continue our assistance of therapy and
counseling.
"It is important for everyone to understand that the diocese is committed
to helping and healing its people."
Among the jury's findings were that the diocese committed fraud and engaged
in a conspiracy to cover up the sexual abuse. Jurors also found that sexual
abuse by Mr. Kos and the diocese's negligence were the "proximate cause" of
the suicide of a young man.
"He was murdered by the Dallas Diocese because they let Father Rudy Kos
into their little regime, and he got away with it," said Pat Lemberger of
Nacogdoches, Texas, whose 21-year-old son, Jay Lemberger, shot himself in
1992.
Mr. Mathis never questioned during the trial that Mr. Kos sexually abused
boys at All Saints Catholic Church in North Dallas, St. Luke's church in
Irving and St. John's church in Ennis from 1981 to 1992. Most of the abuse,
which began with foot massages, occurred during overnight stays in Mr. Kos'
rectory room.
But Mr. Mathis argued that the diocese should not be found liable for Mr.
Kos' behavior because it investigated suspicions about his behavior with
boys and concluded that sexual abuse was not occurring.
He also pointed out that the diocese removed Mr. Kos as soon as the first
youth complained of sexual abuse in 1992.
The 52-year-old Mr. Kos, who is a free-lance paralegal in San Diego, never
attended the trial, although he sent a letter to Bishop Grahmann last month
in which he chided the diocese for not supporting him financially and
denied the sexual abuse allegations.
Mr. Kos, who has been living under an assumed name, could not be reached
for comment Thursday evening. In a previous interview with The Dallas
Morning News, he said he had overcome his attraction to boys through
intensive therapy but couldn't discuss "which ones I had sex with."
He said he was sorry "for anything I may have done" and would say Mass
again if given the chance. At present, he is barred from performing
priestly duties.
At the beginning of the trial, Judge Ashby ruled that Mr. Kos was liable
for the abuse because he never responded to the lawsuits. He faces a
criminal trial on related charges, perhaps this year.
After the verdict, Mr. Mathis said the case is "replete with constitutional
issues." He said that most of the plaintiffs violated the statute of
limitations by filing their lawsuits too late.
Mr. Turley and Ms. Demarest expressed confidence that the verdict would be
upheld on appeal, which they said could take up to four years.
The only church official present for the jury's statement was Monsignor
John Bell, who sat at the defense table with the diocese's lawyers.
Asked afterward whether the church would admit guilt, he replied: "I don't
know how to answer that question. . . . I don't know what 'admit your
guilt' is."
The term implies criminal wrongdoing rather than the civil liability that
was at issue in the trial, he said.
As for the jury's request for policy changes to prevent further abuses, he
said that the diocese had already enacted or was in the process of
implementing them.
The jury, in answering the questions on the charge, assigned a percentage
of responsibility to the diocese for the abuse of each of the plaintiffs.
The diocese was found 80 or 85 percent liable for most of the plaintiffs,
with Mr. Kos being found liable for the remainder. The lowest percentage of
liability for the church - 50 percent - was for Jim Sibert, who lived with
Mr. Kos for three years in a rectory under the guise of being adopted.
Still, the diocese is liable for the entire jury award under the concept of
"joint and several" liability, Mr. Turley said.
Mr. Turley and the other attorneys would not discuss their own
compensation.
Plaintiffs had sought $146.5 million in actual and punitive damages.
The jury, which included two former Catholics, awarded $101.6 million in
actual damages. The damages, including punitive, will earn interest at the
rate of 10 percent a year for the four years since the first lawsuit was
filed.
The actual damages for each plaintiff were as high as $300,000 in future
medical expenses, $2 million in lost future earnings and $4.8 million in
future "mental anguish."
"I hope now the victims around the world will obtain the courage and
strength to come forward," said plaintiff Shawn Johnson, 29, of Plano, at a
news conference where plaintiffs embraced. "We know the shame, guilt and
embarrassment. But know this as well: You are not alone."
Lee Hart, 28, said he didn't think he could return to the Catholic church
"after all that came out in the trial." Most of the plaintiffs didn't know
each other before the trial but said they became close friends after they
heard - often for the first time - others' similar accounts of sexual abuse
during the trial.
Many said during the trial that they had lost their faith because of the
abuse and the way it was handled by the diocese.
"One of the deepest voids I have now is not having a spiritual outlet,"
said Mr. Hart, who now lives near Detroit. "Nothing can make up for what
happened."
The jury's verdict on actual damages was read by Judge Ashby at 1:45 p.m.
Thursday.
Jurors then heard an hour of testimony about the diocese's finances before
considering whether to award punitive damages.
After sometimes hostile questioning of the diocese's chief financial
officer, Mr. Turley told jurors that the diocese had assets of at least
$290 million, although he said it was impossible to pin down exactly how
much.
"You need to all pull together with a little more courage and do the thing
that needs to be done," Mr. Turley said in arguing for punitive damages.
"Speak to the people of Ireland, speak to Rome, speak to New York City,
speak to Seattle - wherever people are exposed to sexual abuse by pastors
or priests."
Mr. Mathis then asked, in a voice so quiet that it could barely be heard by
the packed courtroom of about 60 people, that the jury not award any
punitive damages. He disputed the asset figure given by Mr. Turley.
"As you can imagine, I really don't know what to say," Mr. Mathis said.
"Everybody here is under a great deal of strain."
Throughout the trial's often dramatic testimony, the plaintiffs' lawyers
argued that church officials ignored "a mountain of evidence" that
indicated Mr. Kos was sexually abusing boys.
The Rev. Tom Economus, who has tracked clergy-abuse cases around the
country, said the Dallas judgment is the largest of its kind. He said there
were no other verdicts or out-of-court settlements that went much beyond
$12 million.
Father Economus estimates that Catholic dioceses have paid out $650 million
in settlements since the mid-1980s, when the first such scandal hit the
courts. That case, in Lafayette, La., ended with more than $10 million in
payments and the accused priest being sent to prison.
Since then, hundreds of similar cases have come to light. Settling ones
that are still pending could easily push the payout total over $1 billion,
Father Economus said.
"Nobody ever wants to go to court," said the priest, who is active in the
breakaway Reform Catholic movement and heads a Chicago-based national
organization of clergy-abuse survivors called The Linkup. "It's the last
alternative we have."
Father Economus helped found The Linkup several years ago as he tried to
come to terms with being molested as a child by a priest at a South Dakota
boys school. A federal lawsuit against the school could come to trial in
September; the priest has since died in the crash of a small plane he was
piloting while drunk, he said.
Most such suits are settled out of court because plaintiffs' evidence is so
strong, Father Economus said. For that reason, he said, he's shocked that a
jury got to hear the Dallas case.
"I've seen a lot less messy ones and they've never made it to trial," the
priest said.
"Of the cases that have gone to trial, this really goes far beyond what
we've seen" in terms of embarrassing revelations, he said. "It shows the
entire conspiracy of the Roman Catholic Church, which goes far beyond the
Dallas Diocese."
A lawyer for Lloyd's of London, which insures the Dallas Diocese and many
others, echoed Father Economus' remarks.
"We always try to not have the cases go to trial," said the Chicago
attorney, Richard F. Johnson. "The ones that go to trial have usually ended
badly."
Mr. Johnson said he has seen a pattern of misbehavior among church
officials: "They would learn of a priest having these tendencies and
reassign him."
Thus, when further abuse occurred, "it was not something unexpected," and
insurers would refuse to pay.
Church leaders seemed far more concerned with avoiding scandal than
protecting children, he said.
"Their main concern in the earlier years was 'God forbid anyone should
know,' " Mr. Johnson said. And where dioceses have cracked down and begun
screening prospective clergymen more strictly, it's largely "because of
what they were seeing about themselves in the paper."
The plaintiffs' attorneys introduced evidence about alleged sexual abuse by
other Dallas Diocese priests during the trial.
Robert Peebles, who served with Mr. Kos at All Saints church in 1981 and
1982, has admitted in a deposition that he sexually abused seven boys.
William Hughes is accused of sexually abusing a 13-year-old girl at St.
Luke's church, shortly before Mr. Kos was transferred there in the
mid-1980s.
Mr. Turley has estimated that Mr. Kos, who plied boys with alcohol and
drugs, may have sexually abused as many as 50 boys.
Staff writers Tracy Everbach and Christine Wicker contributed to this
report.
micae...@gmail.com
I wash shocked at how Koss would come down the back stairs and walk a boy(s) who were waiting for him in the back entry lobby of the rectory after school, how koss would come down and take them upstairs to his bedroom.
When this employee reported this, nothing was ever done to Koss. Koss continued hosting these boys after school and nothing was done.
I know of a very well established, old Irving, Texas family who funded Koss' trip to Disney World with the boys and it was financed by the head of this Irving family. Not only this but the same family send their son and other boys on camping trips and other adventures and funded it all. Little did this boys father know what was going on.
I know that this particular boy who was sexually abused by Koss is married now and has a child. I would see him from time to time and he is still the nicest boy from the nicest family ever. He has his struggles, he ran through his money as a means to cope but money can't soothe any pains.
I am going to stop now because koss sickens me and I am getting upset.
Thanks for your post. It just reassures me that my loss of faith in our spiritual leaders was just a big falsehood.
Thanks again.
micae...@gmail.com
PATRICK
>On Tuesday, July 29, 1997 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Stephen Cadigan wrote:
>> I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on the verdict against the Diocese of
>> Dallas. By way of background, I am a life long Roman Catholic born,
>> baptized, raised, and still live in Dallas.
>> argued that church officials ignored "a mountain of evidence" that
>> indicated Mr. Kos was sexually abusing boys.
>> other Dallas Diocese priests during the trial.
>>
>> Robert Peebles, who served with Mr. Kos at All Saints church in 1981 and
>> 1982, has admitted in a deposition that he sexually abused seven boys.
Koss continued hosting these boys after school and nothing was done.
Well, I;m glad we finally got this 1997 story out.
Yes, seven boys were abused 20 years ago.
Oh, by the way, 157 kids died - DIED - of drug overdoses TODAY.
Not 20 years ago. TODAY....
But then, let's whine about 7 kids from 20 years ago.
Mattb.
wrote:
Careful.
•RLMeasures
to excuse them.
PATRICK
I merely understand how the church tried to be more inclusive after
Vatican II and allowed a Rudy Kos (fag) to enter the priesthood.
Rudolph Edward Kos (born 1945-04-29) is a former Roman Catholic priest
who was found guilty of sex crimes in the Diocese of Dallas. In 1998,
Kos was convicted of three counts of aggravated sexual assault and
sentenced to life in prison.
A therapist had told officials of the diocese that Kohs was a "classic
textbook pedophile".
In 1997 a jury awarded $120 million to victims in a sex abuse case
against the Catholic Diocese of Dallas, Texas in a lawsuit implicating
Kos. On July 10, 1998 the Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas settled
their appeal of that verdict and agreed to pay $23.4 million to eight
former altar boys and the relatives of a ninth who had claimed they
were sexually abused by Kos. Dallas Bishop Charles V. Grahmann issued
a written apology when this settlement was announced, saying, "To the
victims and their families, I once again want to apologize on behalf
of the diocese. Based on what we know now, the decisions made
concerning Rudy Kos were errors in human judgment. I regret very much
what happened, and I am deeply sorry for your pain".
So..... a jury awarded 8 boys $120 Million dollars.
And.... this is a NEW story 18 years after this?
•RLMeasures
homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
> Rudolph Edward Kos (born 1945-04-29) is a former Roman Catholic priest
> who was found guilty of sex crimes in the Diocese of Dallas. In 1998,
> Kos was convicted of three counts of aggravated sexual assault and
> sentenced to life in prison.
>
> A therapist had told officials of the diocese that Kohs was a "classic
> textbook pedophile".
>
> In 1997 a jury awarded $120 million to victims in a sex abuse case
> against the Catholic Diocese of Dallas, Texas in a lawsuit implicating
> Kos. On July 10, 1998 the Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas settled
> their appeal of that verdict and agreed to pay $23.4 million to eight
> former altar boys and the relatives of a ninth who had claimed they
> were sexually abused by Kos. Dallas Bishop Charles V. Grahmann issued
> a written apology when this settlement was announced, saying, "To the
> victims and their families, I once again want to apologize on behalf
> of the diocese. Based on what we know now, the decisions made
> concerning Rudy Kos were errors in human judgment. I regret very much
> what happened, and I am deeply sorry for your pain".
>
> So..... a jury awarded 8 boys $120 Million dollars.
>
> And.... this is a NEW story 18 years after this?
PATRICK
>> >> >>When this employee reported this, nothing was ever done to Koss.
>> >> >Koss continued hosting these boys after school and nothing was done.
>> >> >
>> >> >>I am going to stop now because koss sickens me and I am getting upset.
>> >> >
>> >> >+++
>> >> >Well, I;m glad we finally got this 1997 story out.
>> >> >Yes, seven boys were abused 20 years ago.
>> >> >
>> >> >Oh, by the way, 157 kids died - DIED - of drug overdoses TODAY.
>> >> >Not 20 years ago. TODAY....
>> >> >But then, let's whine about 7 kids from 20 years ago.
>> >>
>> >> You are upsetting Patrick Barker Pedo lover and Satanic liar.
>> >> Careful.
>> >
>> >€€ PB is definitely not a pedophile priest lover but he is plenty quick
>> >to excuse them.
>>
>> I don't excuse them.
>> I merely understand how the church tried to be more inclusive after
>> Vatican II and allowed a Rudy Kos (fag) to enter the priesthood.
>
>€€€ I never heard anything about Vatican II giving the green light to
>homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
Once a citadel of Catholic orthodoxy. Holy Trinity mislaid its moral
compass in the mid 1970s. The House, as seminarians call the isolated
beige brick structure at the University of Dallas, became a magnet for
sexually confused youths, or self-professed gays. The infamous Rudy
Kos, a sexual predator, also called The House his home in those days.
"The seminary attracted some really strange people," Kos
unself-consciously acknowledged to me in a letter from jail in
February as he awaited his criminal trial for molesting four young
men. "Most of me time, they were filtered out in the application
process.... Still, some flakes slipped through."
As Kos begins the rest of his life in prison, other former seminarians
are speaking-most on condition of anonymity-of (heir own sexual
adventures at The House. These men tell a consistent story of
forbidden urges thai were more often expressed than suppressed at Holy
Trinity. Gay and straight alike, they say that what began as
occasional, isolated moments of sexual contact among the students
degenerated into obvious promiscuity that the diocese did little but
ignore, as long as the sexual shenanigans stayed quiet.
When Holy Trinity opened in 1967, a Vatican official declared it the
finest seminary he had ever seen. At its center is the main chapel, a
circular sanctuary topped by an understated dome of stained glass. A
pair of twostory dormitory wings spoke off at right angles. Plans
called for two more identical wings, a hundred beds in each, to
complete the architect’s Greek-cross design. However, not enough
students have ever been accepted to the seminary to fill even the
completed dorms, so the cross has remained unfinished.
Rudy Kos served as infirmarian at Holy Trinity from 1977 to 1981.
There in the sick room he took care of ill and injured students,
treating them for everything from the flu to twisted ankles, even the
occasional case of gonorrhea.
Unlike most seminarians, who entered as undergraduates at age 20 or
younger, Kos came to The House at age 32 after a career as a
registered nurse, with a failed marriage behind him. He arrived at a
time of significant change in the seminary’s leadership. Monsignor
Michael Sheehan had just replaced Monsignor Gerald Hughes, the
seminary’s longtime rector. Hughes, who died in January of this year,
was an old-fashioned cleric, known for his French cuffs, tonicked
hair, and severe. authoritarian demeanor.
He also ran a tight ship. When boys were not in class or praying or
studying, they did their chores. The students kept the football field
manicured and the basketball courts swept clear of leaves. They also
made sure the wall portraits inside hung perfectly straight.
But at the time of Monsignor Sheehan’s advent as rector in 1976, the
U.S. Church-and thus many of its seminaries-was being rocked by
radical change. Strict Catholicism of the sort Hughes practiced was
engulfed in a post-Vatican II tidal wave that swept away centuries of
accumulated observances and verities. While the Church tried to steer
a steady course through the storm, it was hit by an unexpected gale: a
collapse of vocations.
http://www.dmagazine.com/publications/d-magazine/1998/july/religion-how-rudy-kos-happened
•RLMeasures
> >MASSOn Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:21:01 -0700, r...@somis.org (•RLMeasures) wrote:
> , PATRICK><pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >>When this employee reported this, nothing was ever done to Koss.
> >> >> >Koss continued hosting these boys after school and nothing was done.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>I am going to stop now because koss sickens me and I am getting
upset.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >+++
> >> >> >Well, I;m glad we finally got this 1997 story out.
> >> >> >Yes, seven boys were abused 20 years ago.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Oh, by the way, 157 kids died - DIED - of drug overdoses TODAY.
> >> >> >Not 20 years ago. TODAY....
> >> >> >But then, let's whine about 7 kids from 20 years ago.
> >> >>
> >> >> You are upsetting Patrick Barker Pedo lover and Satanic liar.
> >> >> Careful.
> >> >
> >> >€€ PB is definitely not a pedophile priest lover but he is plenty quick
> >> >to excuse them.
> >>
> >> I don't excuse them.
> >> I merely understand how the church tried to be more inclusive after
> >> Vatican II and allowed a Rudy Kos (fag) to enter the priesthood.
> >
> >€€€ I never heard anything about Vatican II giving the green light to
> >homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
>
> I never made that claim.
pedo-priest dilemma??
PATRICK
Vatican II made a serious attempt to bring the Roman Catholic Church
into the modern ages. The world was changing at that time. Free
love, free sex, racial integration, desegregation, acceptance of one
and all, the seminaries changed. Plus, vocations to the priesthood
were drying up, and many seminaries were hurting for students. The
old guard was dying off, the new age of liberalism was taking over the
college scenes...
Vatican II brought some major changes to the Roman church. Most
obvious were changes in the mass, which had been said in Latin, with
priest facing away from the congregation, often speaking quietly (even
mumbling). It was impersonal at best, and for most, not
understandable.
The mass was to be conducted in the language of the people, and
participation was encouraged in new ways, with new possibilities
granted for music and singing, and women allowed into upfront roles as
readers, lectors, and Eucharistic ministers, as well as altar servers
in some places. They brought guitars into the churches, for goodness
sake. The Mass turned into a coom-bye- yah thang.
The church radically changed its position on the teaching about Jews,
and really opened up to dialogue with the Jewish community; and
encouraged — and demanded — that Catholics not consider the Jews as
“other” or enemy but in fact, as brothers and sisters under the same
God.
Vatican II aimed to produce not only a very different experience of
the mass, but also a repositioning of the church in relation to the
modern world.
Vatican II had no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine,
but only of updating her methods and techniques for more efficient
administration and to present a more attractive appearance.
Vatican II freed the church from Latin.
Vatican II tried to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
And... I believe that since seminaries were having such a terrible
time in attracting good reliable men to the priesthood, they started
to accept anyone who sought refuge behind their walls. And so, VOILA'
they accepted young men who would never have been accepted 20 years
before that.
++
Ecumenism: Unitatis Redintegratio declared the ecumenical movement a
good thing, encouraged Catholics to be part of it and referred to
Eastern, Oriental and Protestant Christians as "separated brethren."
In 1928 Pope Pius XI had condemned the ecumenical movement. From the
Council of Trent until the Second Vatican Council Protestants were
officially referred to as heretics.
http://www.catholicregister.org/item/15194-what-changed-at-vatican-ii
Religious Life: Sisters, brothers and religious order priests were to
do two things — rediscover the original purpose of their religious
order and adapt it to the modern world, said Perfectae Caritatis.
Aggiornamento looked forward. It was how Pope John XXIII explained the
basic impulse of the council. He wanted to open up the doors and
windows of the Church and welcome in the world, to greet the modern
age and all its cultural and technological revolutiontons with
something more than suspicion, fear and rejection. The word means “up
to the moment” in the sense of renewal.
There was a lot of foot dragging because “There are people for whom
religion means security. The world changes, everything changes,
nothing is reliable,” Baum told The Catholic Register. “But the one
thing that’s reliable and is unchanging is the religion they have
inherited — not God, but the religion we have inherited.”
From an African perspective, the Second Vatican Council was in a
slightly different context. It came at the end of the colonial era,
when more than 50 new nations were being born on that one continent.
“It has now become global. It’s the Church of the whole world,”
Cardinal Peter Turkson told The Catholic Register. “We had a true
representation of the world Church.”
++ I believe the church pushed toward inclusion which included
homosexuals. Add to this... the pill, the condom, abortions, and the
age of the computers.
•RLMeasures
€€€ Pedophilia is ancient and present.
that had on way too long.
> Vatican II freed the church from Latin.
> Vatican II tried to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
>
> And... I believe that since seminaries were having such a terrible
> time in attracting good reliable men to the priesthood, they started
> to accept anyone who sought refuge behind their walls. And so, VOILA'
> they accepted young men who would never have been accepted 20 years
> before that.
>
a rapid rate that in 1866 Pope Pius IX literally freaked out.
happen to the salvation occupation.
PATRICK
>, PATRICK><pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >€€€ I never heard anything about Vatican II giving the green light to
>> >> >homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
>> >>
>> >> I never made that claim.
>> >
>> >€€€€ Did you not mention that Vatican II was a turning point in the
>> >pedo-priest dilemma??
>>
>> Yes.
>> Vatican II made a serious attempt to bring the Roman Catholic Church
>> into the modern ages. ...
>
>€€€ Pedophilia is ancient and present.
They addressed Latin, Jew haters,and the Mass for the people.
>> Vatican II freed the church from Latin.
>> Vatican II tried to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
>>
>€€€ Like including kiddy diddlers.
with the rest of the population.
>> And... I believe that since seminaries were having such a terrible
>> time in attracting good reliable men to the priesthood, they started
>> to accept anyone who sought refuge behind their walls. And so, VOILA'
>> they accepted young men who would never have been accepted 20 years
>> before that.
>>
>€€€ The pedo-homo-priest problem was so large and was increasing at such
>a rapid rate that in 1866 Pope Pius IX literally freaked out.
How about a different one:
Pope Pius IX appeared to live up to his liberal and progressive
reputation immediately following his election to the Chair of Saint
Peter. The Papal States were dangerously close to revolution due to
Italian nationalism, and he promised reforms and changes in order to
restore stability. He was responsible for the introduction of
railroads into Rome and the reformulation of tariff laws in order to
improve trade. He installed gas-powered street lighting in Rome,
apportioned a share of the papal charities for the Jews, and abolished
the law which required Jews to attend weekly Catholic sermons. He
coupled this program of economic and social reform with political
reforms of the same magnitude. The pope incorporated democracy into
the governing of the Papal States by appointing lay persons to the
government of the Church. He allowed exiled revolutionaries to return
to the Papal States, and even approved a new constitution that gave an
elected body of laymen the power to veto the pope. Protestant leaders
from all over Europe congratulated Pius IX, and Italian nationalists
dubbed the pope "the most important man in Italy."
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€€ With c. half of priests being "fag" there was way more demand for cute
boy servers.
>
> >> in some places. They brought guitars into the churches, for goodness
> >> sake. The Mass turned into a coom-bye- yah thang.
> >>
> >> The church radically changed its position on the teaching about Jews,
> >> and really opened up to dialogue with the Jewish community; and
> >> encouraged — and demanded — that Catholics not consider the Jews as
> >> “other” or enemy but in fact, as brothers and sisters under the same
> >> God.
> >>
> >> Vatican II aimed to produce not only a very different experience of
> >> the mass, but also a repositioning of the church in relation to the
> >> modern world.
> >>
> >> Vatican II had no intention of revising any of her basic doctrine,
> >> but only of updating her methods and techniques for more efficient
> >> administration and to present a more attractive appearance.
> >
> >€€€ Catholicism stopped teaching antiSemitism at Vatican II, something
> I believe that is what I was trying to say.
>
>
>
> >> Vatican II freed the church from Latin.
> >> Vatican II tried to be more inclusive, rather than exclusive.
> >>
> >€€€ Like including kiddy diddlers.
>
>
> >> And... I believe that since seminaries were having such a terrible
> >> time in attracting good reliable men to the priesthood, they started
> >> to accept anyone who sought refuge behind their walls. And so, VOILA'
> >> they accepted young men who would never have been accepted 20 years
> >> before that.
> >>
>
> I love your little stories.
fucked by a priest to lie and say they made it up in order to avoid
excommunication??
duke
Vatican II.
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
>>MASSOn Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:21:01 -0700, r...@somis.org (•RLMeasures) wrote:
>, PATRICK><pbark...@woh.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>> >> >>When this employee reported this, nothing was ever done to Koss.
>>> >> >Koss continued hosting these boys after school and nothing was done.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>I am going to stop now because koss sickens me and I am getting upset.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >+++
>>> >> >Well, I;m glad we finally got this 1997 story out.
>>> >> >Yes, seven boys were abused 20 years ago.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Oh, by the way, 157 kids died - DIED - of drug overdoses TODAY.
>>> >> >Not 20 years ago. TODAY....
>>> >> >But then, let's whine about 7 kids from 20 years ago.
>>> >>
>>> >> You are upsetting Patrick Barker Pedo lover and Satanic liar.
>>> >> Careful.
>>> >
>>> >€€ PB is definitely not a pedophile priest lover but he is plenty quick
>>> >to excuse them.
>>>
>>> I don't excuse them.
>>> I merely understand how the church tried to be more inclusive after
>>> Vatican II and allowed a Rudy Kos (fag) to enter the priesthood.
>>
>>€€€ I never heard anything about Vatican II giving the green light to
>>homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
>
>I never made that claim.
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duke
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duke
pedopriest? So many issues, so little time.
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thread??
PATRICK
Vatican II was just one thing that contributed to the Kos debacle.
Also was the new age of love and acceptance.
and a liberal bent in seminaries.
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PATRICK
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Pius IX, the patron saint of pedo-priests, was so swamped with reports of
priests butt fucking Altar-boys he ruled that all altar boys who reported
being butt fucked by a priest were to be summarily excommunicated until
they admitted in writing that they had lied even though the had told the
awful truth.
PATRICK
I just hope there won't be a test in the morning.
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duke
*****
homosexual pedophiles to serve in the priesthood.
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PATRICK
duke
Patrick.
duke
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PATRICK
MattB
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> Message-ID: <3elnmbh16sql6ih1k...@4ax.com>
PATRICK
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PATRICK
After all, you brought it up.
The best part of m__t went down his momma's chin.
duke
and on.
duke
duke
like you did.
MattB
Interesting thread.
PATRICK
prison warden, street walker.......
PATRICK
PATRICK
wrote:
MattB
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MattB
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PATRICK
PATRICK
PATRICK
PATRICK
PATRICK
PATRICK
Maybe we should ask matt.
After all, he ALWAYS tells the truth.
MattB
duke
duke
duke
Didn't you know that the homopriest, as also in the case of the pedopriest, have
been run off. The house has been cleaned. Oh, that's rigth, you can't
differentiate between homo and pedo.
duke
duke
PATRICK
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>
> Why do you care?
>
7€ I'm not bi.
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priests plug into altar-boys.
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PATRICK
Me stir the pot?
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PATRICK
I think I'll use the Alford plea.
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duke
duke
Don't want to know.
duke
duke
PATRICK
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duke
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more than an attempt??
duke
directions.