Six Myths of Atheism

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J Young

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Nov 17, 2007, 10:31:54 PM11/17/07
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Six Myths of Atheism


BY The Editors

November 18-24, 2007 Issue | Posted 11/13/07 at 1:28 PM


In one respect, it's good that Golden Compass, a book by a prominent atheist
children's author, is being made into a movie. It could lead to a wider
discussion of atheism. It is easy to be a quiet atheist - but much harder to
remain an atheist when you actually have to explain your position. Here are
a few common myths about atheism that discussion can help dispel.

Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.

A myth that is kin to this one is the myth that believers are more logical
than atheists. In fact, the reasons people become believers or become
atheists are rarely reducible to logic. Rather, a number of experiences,
observations and emotional states together push someone toward belief or
unbelief. The idea that there is an almighty God is terrifying to many
people. Rather than be in the power of such a being, they flee him. Others,
perhaps, have been so wounded by believers that they reject their beliefs
and not just their behavior. Logic is brought in to comfort the atheist with
rationalizations. On the other hand, the way we come to believe in God isn't
through a syllogism, either. It's through a personal encounter with Christ,
or with one of his proxies: beauty, truth and goodness.

Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.

Atheists often say that the default position of mankind should be lack of
belief, since there is "no proof" of God's existence. Others say agnosticism
should be the default position of mankind: We should start out by saying "We're
not sure," and work from there. Anthony Flew, the prominent atheist who
recently converted to a position of belief in "the God of Aristotle" said
that the default position of mankind should be belief, since, after all, the
universe and its complicated laws exists, and you have to deny the obvious
to say that there is no creator. Flew saw three irrefutable proofs that
there must be a god in the laws of nature, life with its singular
organization and the existence of the universe.

Myth: Science makes God obsolete.

There is a widespread assumption that somehow the progress of science has
challenged, or will challenge, the reasons that previous generations had for
believing in God. But why should it? Imagine if human beings were the size
of microbes and lived on a tuna noodle casserole instead of our current size
on the earth. Imagine we became so scientifically advanced, we identified
all the different constituent parts of the casserole we lived on, and even
started to explore the vast kitchen outside the casserole. It would be
ridiculous for us to claim that, since we know the ingredients so well,
there must not have been a cook.

Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.

In fact, if you look at the history of science, you don't see the history of
an infallible learning method slowly but surely widening our understanding
of the universe. Science is an excellent instrument for fact-finding, but
one that has been wrong about fundamental things at every point in its
history. Theories of spontaneous generation seemed entirely reasonable at
the dawn of science. Paul Ehrlich's theories expecting mass famine due to
overpopulation seemed plausible at the beginning of the 1970s. What theories
of today will prove just as false? Scientific knowledge at any stage of its
history is merely tentative, and new discoveries are continually refining or
discarding previous theories.

Myth: Religion and science are incompatible.

Often, fans of this myth will cite Galileo as proof that religion and
science are opponents in a contest that often appears to be a death match.
The Galileo incident is actually a good example of the real relationship
between science and religion. Search for Galileo at Catholic.com, to learn
how the incident is widely misunderstood. Galileo's theory that the earth
travels around the sun and not vice versa was not unique to Galileo. Others
held it, and the Church didn't suppress the idea. Instead, Galileo's
personal animus toward the Pope forced the two into a showdown. The moral of
the story? Real religion and honest science are certainly compatible:
Religious people and scientists, however, sometimes fail to be.

Myth: Religion has led to violent intolerance.

Undoubtedly, far too many religious people have been violent and intolerant.
But if you look at the facts about such notorious incidents as the
Inquisition and the witch hunts (look them up at Catholic.com), you'll find
that the crimes of the Church have been greatly exaggerated. Meanwhile,
atheist communists in the 20th century killed more people than the Church
was ever even accused of killing. Killed were some 65 million (and counting)
in China; 20 million in the Soviet Union, 2 million (and counting) in North
Korea, 2 million in Cambodia, 1.7 million in Africa, 1.5 million in
Afghanistan, 1 million in Vietnam, 1 million in communist Eastern Europe and
150,000 in Latin America.

Catholics should be aware of the threats to faith posed by movies like The
Golden Compass, but we shouldn't be afraid of them. The Church has faced far
fiercer and cleverer opponents for more than 2,000 years, and we're still
here to tell the tale.

How are we able to come out ahead so consistently? That's easy. It's because
there really is a God.

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem

Uncle Vic

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Nov 18, 2007, 12:13:18 AM11/18/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> bloodied us
up with this:

> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.

You believe a god sacrificed himself to himself to save his own creation
from his own wrath for doing what they were created to do in the first
place. This is logic?

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.


Uncle Vic

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Nov 18, 2007, 12:16:32 AM11/18/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> bloodied us
up with this:

> Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.

And shifting that burden to non-believers is illogical. Gods are your
claim, it's your responsibility to prove they exist. Or shall I ask you to
prove there are no invisible dragons in my basement?

Uncle Vic

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Nov 18, 2007, 12:18:40 AM11/18/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> bloodied
us up with this:

> How are we able to come out ahead so consistently? That's easy. It's


> because there really is a God.

Then you should have no trouble proving it. The fact that you have nothing
*but* trouble proving it is proof in itself there is no god.

Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian

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Nov 18, 2007, 1:27:08 AM11/18/07
to
gay Young:

> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.

Fact: They are indeed (judging from the demeanor of both groups as observed
in this place, and in many others too).

> Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.

Fact: Indeed it is. There is, as of now, not a single shred of objective
verifiable evidence for the existence of any deity. Possibility !=
evidence.

And, by the way, the whole paragraph that followed at this place in the OP
was remarkably worthless. A description of possible positions, followed by
the claims of _one single person._ Wow. I'm sooooo impressed.

> Myth: Science makes God obsolete.

Fact: People's opinions make deities obsolete (sometimes).
Science strives to answer the "how" of the universe as good as it can.
People commonly refer to deities as the answer to the "why".
Let alone that at the point of the big bang, scientifical understanding
ceases anyway. You want room for a god, any god? The big bang provides it
easily.
Oh, and if "science makes god obsolete", why are there so many religions
scientists?

> Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.

Fact: Unless you demand an unrealistic 100 % reliability, then it is indeed.
Considering that science, not religion, brought us all the advances in
medicine, technology, knowledge et al, science very obviously is a _much_
better guide than morontheist religion has been for millennia.

> Myth: Religion and science are incompatible.

Fact: _Morontheism_ (Fundamentalism) and science are incompatible.
Boo-fucking-hoo. Cry me a river.

> Myth: Religion has led to violent intolerance.

> ...the crimes of the Church have been greatly exaggerated.

Aaah, unsupported assertion. How so, hmmm?

> Meanwhile, atheist communists in the 20th century killed more people than
> the Church was ever even accused of killing.

And atheism has... what exactly to do with science?
(Of course the choice of words implies that science = atheism != religion...
talk about compatibility again...)

> Killed were some 65 million

> (and counting) in China [... snip rest of blah yadda]

...and how many people would have been killed in the name of the christian
monster jehoover (and allah on the other side) if those crusaders and
witch-hunters et al had had modern communications, logistics and weaponry
(in short, the equipment of the times when "atheists" killed all those
people)?

Ooops.

> How are we able to come out ahead so consistently? That's easy. It's
> because there really is a God.

Of course all this has nothing at all to do with a history of centuries of
conquest and brainwashing. Noooo, not at all.

_Religion_ may well survive forever. Morontheism, however, would be totally
lost without it having been thoroughly intermingled with today's culture.

And gay young loses again. Business as usual. What's for dinner?

--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...

My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus

Harold Saxon

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Nov 18, 2007, 8:23:36 AM11/18/07
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Myths of Atheism? Only a creationist would build up such strawmen in
order to attack atheism and science (which in his or her mind are one
and the same thing).

parsi...@gmail.com

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Nov 18, 2007, 9:16:01 AM11/18/07
to
On 18 Nov., 04:31, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> Six Myths of Atheism

If you despise us, sack-of-shit, why do send your offensive rant every
day to alt.atheism?
Face it: we're the only "friends" you have and you need us.

Rev. Karl E. Taylor

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Nov 18, 2007, 9:47:46 AM11/18/07
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Negative attention is better then no attention at all.

--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.secularity.com/ktayloraz

A.A #1143 http://azhotops.blogspot.com/

Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________

Mark K. Bilbo

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Nov 18, 2007, 10:28:57 AM11/18/07
to
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, J Young wrote:

> Six Myths of Atheism

Aka "more bullshit cut 'n' paste by J Nazi Young".

--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not
believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.”

- H. L. Mencken

Doc Smartass

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Nov 18, 2007, 11:37:34 AM11/18/07
to
"J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote in news:473fb30a$0$1131$b9f67a60
@news.newsdemon.com:

> Subject: Six Myths of Atheism

Biggest myth of atheism is that you religious whacks know anything about
it.

--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939

No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.

--Edward R. Murrow

panam...@hotmail.com

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Nov 18, 2007, 2:32:05 PM11/18/07
to
On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> Six Myths of Atheism

Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.

-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!

655321

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Nov 18, 2007, 3:26:04 PM11/18/07
to
In article <473fb30a$0$1131$b9f6...@news.newsdemon.com>,
"J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:

> Six Myths of Atheism
>
>
> BY The Idiots.

Fixed it.

--
655321
"We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi

BRAINIAC

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Nov 19, 2007, 2:36:33 AM11/19/07
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On 18 Nov, 19:32, panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Six Myths of Atheism
>
> Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.

Ah, those would be the fundamentalist types, not the more progressive
ones, and they outnumber the former considerably.
>
> -Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
> aa#2015/KoBAAWA!

Elf M. Sternberg

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Nov 19, 2007, 12:48:52 PM11/19/07
to
"J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> writes:

> Anthony Flew, the prominent atheist who
> recently converted to a position of belief in "the God of Aristotle" said
> that the default position of mankind should be belief, since, after all, the
> universe and its complicated laws exists, and you have to deny the obvious
> to say that there is no creator. Flew saw three irrefutable proofs that
> there must be a god in the laws of nature, life with its singular
> organization and the existence of

Flew didn't say that. Varghese said that. Flew could
probably barely sign his name. The writing style of Flew's latest
book shows what a sham it is; if you've ever read Flew's books from
the Sixties, you'd know you were in the grip of a brilliant and
possessive writer. The current work is a flimsy bit of apologetics
unlike anything Flew would have written himself.

But why let yet another lie stop you from believing you're
doing good work, Young?

Elf

--
Elf M. Sternberg, Immanentizing the Eschaton since 1988
http://www.pendorwright.com/

"You know how some people treat their body like a temple?
I treat mine like issa amusement park!" - Kei

Kelsey Bjarnason

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Nov 19, 2007, 3:11:03 PM11/19/07
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[snips]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, J Young wrote:

> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.

Not relevant at all. The most that can be validly said here is that as a
group, they lack a particular belief and the illogic required to adopt
said belief.


> Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.

On anyone making a positive claim, be it "gods exist" or "pixies exist" or
"you owe me a million dollars".

> out by saying "We're not sure," and work from there. Anthony Flew, the
> prominent atheist

So prominent that many of us have never heard of him.

> and you have to deny the obvious to say that there is no creator.

No, you don't - Flew's opinions notwithstanding.


> Myth: Science makes God obsolete.

Science has absolutely nothing to say on the subject of gods, but for
this: if gods are amenable to _any_ form of actual study - that is, if
there is _any_ way to actually determine anything meaningful about them -
then science, as a process, should be able to deal with that information.
Oddly, such information seems rather lacking.

> Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.

It's a tool, not a guide.

> Myth: Religion and science are incompatible.

Only if one persists in believing things incompatible with science, such
as the notion that unfounded, unevidenced ideas should be regarded as
acceptable on the face of them.

> Myth: Religion has led to violent intolerance.

No myth at all; read your history.


Oh, well, so much for those.

duke

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:15:51 PM11/19/07
to
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 05:13:18 GMT, Uncle Vic <add...@withheld.com> wrote:

>One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> bloodied us
>up with this:
>
>> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
>
>You believe a god sacrificed himself to himself to save his own creation
>from his own wrath for doing what they were created to do in the first
>place. This is logic?

Yet that's not the case. So right off you blew it, ds. That's been explained
many times to you, but still you prefer to live the lie rather than embrace the
truth.


duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

duke

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:38:38 PM11/19/07
to
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panam...@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Six Myths of Atheism
>
>Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
>confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.

Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.

duke

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:46:06 PM11/19/07
to
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:

Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".

As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
another as he loves us.

These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
in God means to their eternal future.

I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
to follow God.

Spiritual suicide at it's best.

snex

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:49:30 PM11/19/07
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On Nov 19, 4:46 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

its not god that we refuse to follow. god has never even showed up to
tell us where to go. its YOU we refuse to follow, and that just burns
away at your ego, doesnt it?

snex

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:50:56 PM11/19/07
to
On Nov 19, 4:38 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Six Myths of Atheism
>
> >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.

barely any of you 2.2 billion people can even agree on what exactly it
is god wants us to do.

panam...@hotmail.com

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Nov 19, 2007, 5:56:41 PM11/19/07
to
On Nov 19, 5:50 pm, snex <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Nov 19, 4:38 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> Six Myths of Atheism
>
> > >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> > >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.
>
> barely any of you 2.2 billion people can even agree on what exactly it
> is god wants us to do.

And notice he never mentions that the majority of those folks live in
countries that don't even have indoor plumbing, much less a decent
school system. I wonder how ol' Earl would like living in Christian
Africa or Guatamala..<g>

-PF, etc.

Lars Eighner

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:04:34 PM11/19/07
to
In our last episode,
<m444k31b6r6lhssk3...@4ax.com>,
the lovely and talented duke
broadcast on alt.atheism:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:

> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".

No mistake.

> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that
> one's eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God
> to love one another as he loves us.

Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,
leprechans have a pot of gold and if you catch one you become rich, that
Zeus is a jealous god, or that flinging a virgin into a volcano will prevent
an unpleasant encounter with lava.

> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I
> don't believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith
> and follow in God means to their eternal future.

In other words, they don't buy your bull. Too bad. There are plenty of
fools who will give you money to listen to your fairy tales.

> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too
> smart to follow God.

What you want, of course, is for us to 'just take your word for it' and
follow you. Your god is just the stick you hope to use to oppress us --- if
only we will believe in your sky magic.

--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> use...@larseighner.com
Countdown: 427 days to go.

Rev. Karl E. Taylor

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:07:49 PM11/19/07
to
duke wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Six Myths of Atheism
>> Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
>> confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.
>
And still a fucking minority on the planet.

Way to go Earl. Why at this rate, you all may just survive the next 50
years.

Doubtful, the way your numbers have been dropping lately.

Rev. Karl E. Taylor

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:09:24 PM11/19/07
to
duke wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>
> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
> eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
> another as he loves us.
>
> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
> believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
> in God means to their eternal future.
>
> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
> to follow God.
>
Hey liar, I thought you said you didn't lie or threaten. Here, you've
just done both.

Congratulations fuck head. It's still not working here.

Virgil

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:13:31 PM11/19/07
to
In article <n77915-...@spanky.localhost.net>,
Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> [snips]
>
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, J Young wrote:
>
> > Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
>
> Not relevant at all. The most that can be validly said here is that as a
> group, they lack a particular belief and the illogic required to adopt
> said belief.
>
>
> > Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.
>
> On anyone making a positive claim, be it "gods exist" or "pixies exist" or
> "you owe me a million dollars".

Or even "No gods exist." So the weak form of atheism, mere lack of
belief in any gods, is the only "position" bearing no burden of proof.


>
> > out by saying "We're not sure," and work from there. Anthony Flew, the
> > prominent atheist
>
> So prominent that many of us have never heard of him.
>
> > and you have to deny the obvious to say that there is no creator.

To us, it is not at all obvious that there need to have been a creator,
unless that creator also had a creator and that one had a creator, too,
and so on ad infinitum. If everything requires a creator then creators
require creators, too.


>
> > Myth: Science makes God obsolete.
>
> Science has absolutely nothing to say on the subject of gods, but for
> this: if gods are amenable to _any_ form of actual study - that is, if
> there is _any_ way to actually determine anything meaningful about them -
> then science, as a process, should be able to deal with that information.
> Oddly, such information seems rather lacking.
>
> > Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.
>
> It's a tool, not a guide.

It is also a guide, at least if we use it wisely.

Virgil

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:15:42 PM11/19/07
to
In article <nm24k39u26t3mheqh...@4ax.com>,
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 05:13:18 GMT, Uncle Vic <add...@withheld.com>
> wrote:
>
> >One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>
> >bloodied us up with this:
> >
> >> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
> >
> >You believe a god sacrificed himself to himself to save his own
> >creation from his own wrath for doing what they were created to do
> >in the first place. This is logic?
>
> Yet that's not the case. So right off you blew it, ds. That's been
> explained many times to you, but still you prefer to live the lie
> rather than embrace the truth.

Since you have nothing by way of unbiased evidence to back up your claim
of truth, it remains mythical, not actual.


>
>
> duke, American-American ***** "The Mass is the most perfect form of
> Prayer." Pope Paul VI *****

And prayer is the most perfect form of self-delusion.

Virgil

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:17:29 PM11/19/07
to
In article <6244k3pgkurgh0kur...@4ax.com>,
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panam...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Six Myths of Atheism
> >
> >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.

Aren't there over 3 billion non-Christians alive and well today?


>
> duke, American-American
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****

And prayer is the most perfect form os self-delusion.

Christopher A.Lee

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Nov 19, 2007, 7:40:41 PM11/19/07
to
On 20 Nov 2007 00:04:34 GMT, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com>
wrote:

>In our last episode,
><m444k31b6r6lhssk3...@4ax.com>,
>the lovely and talented duke
>broadcast on alt.atheism:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
>> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>
>No mistake.
>
>> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that
>> one's eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God
>> to love one another as he loves us.
>
>Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,

No, they make you horny.

Reindeer make you twice as horny.

Michelle Malkin

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 8:39:17 PM11/19/07
to
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:nm24k39u26t3mheqh...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 05:13:18 GMT, Uncle Vic <add...@withheld.com> wrote:
>
>>One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> bloodied us
>>up with this:
>>
>>> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
>>
>>You believe a god sacrificed himself to himself to save his own creation
>>from his own wrath for doing what they were created to do in the first
>>place. This is logic?
>
> Yet that's not the case. So right off you blew it, ds. That's been
> explained
> many times to you, but still you prefer to live the lie rather than
> embrace the
> truth.

Since Puke is Roman Catholic, that would make
him a trinitarian. That means his God split itself
into three pieces, only one of which was his
so-called 'son'(who was created by having the
other third of Itself - the Holy Spook - rape a 13
year old virgin.). So, in having created imperfect
humans, that God first punished them for being
the way It created them to be and then punished
one third of Itself (the 'Son' chunk) for a very
short time to absolve from 'sins' all those willing
to enslave themselves to It. And, all babies are
born sinners due to something a couple innocents
did due to being created that way.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
When fascism comes to America, it will be
wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross -
Sinclair Lewis

Michelle Malkin

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 8:52:34 PM11/19/07
to
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:m444k31b6r6lhssk3...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>
> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that
> one's
> eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to
> love one
> another as he loves us.
>
> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I
> don't
> believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and
> follow
> in God means to their eternal future.
>
> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too
> smart
> to follow God.
>
> Spiritual suicide at it's best.

Puke's threat of the day. He refuses to understand
or is incapable of understanding that you can't
frighten someone with something that they don't
believe in. The only one trying to be impish is Puke
who thinks that his threats are cute.

Uncle Vic

unread,
Nov 19, 2007, 10:32:14 PM11/19/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, duke <duckg...@cox.net> bloodied us up
with this:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 05:13:18 GMT, Uncle Vic <add...@withheld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>One fine day in alt.atheism, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>
>>bloodied us up with this:
>>
>>> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
>>
>>You believe a god sacrificed himself to himself to save his own
>>creation from his own wrath for doing what they were created to do in
>>the first place. This is logic?
>
> Yet that's not the case.

Of course it is. You've said yourself, Jesus is God incarnate. Therefore,
what I say hits the nine inch nail on the head.


--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.


Uncle Vic

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 12:00:24 AM11/20/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, duke <duckg...@cox.net> bloodied us up
with this:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com>


> wrote:
>
> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian
> "just believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>
> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that
> one's eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of
> God to love one another as he loves us.
>
> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me
> because I don't believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper
> all this faith and follow in God means to their eternal future.
>
> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's
> guaranteeing themselves eternal torment with satan because they
> thought themselves too smart to follow God.
>
> Spiritual suicide at it's best.
>

Bla bla bla.

Uncle Vic

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 12:10:58 AM11/20/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, duke <duckg...@cox.net> bloodied us up
with this:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panam...@hotmail.com


> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Six Myths of Atheism
>>
>>Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
>>confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well
> today.
>

Considering the world's population at over 6.5 billion, you must be wrong
if you consider your bandwagon fallacy holds water.

Uncle Vic

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 12:12:37 AM11/20/07
to
One fine day in alt.atheism, panam...@hotmail.com bloodied us up with
this:

> On Nov 19, 5:50 pm, snex <s...@comcast.net> wrote:


>> On Nov 19, 4:38 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com
>> > wrote:
>> > >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > >> Six Myths of Atheism
>>
>> > >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
>> > >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>>
>> > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and
>> > well today.
>>
>> barely any of you 2.2 billion people can even agree on what exactly
>> it is god wants us to do.
>
> And notice he never mentions that the majority of those folks live in
> countries that don't even have indoor plumbing, much less a decent
> school system.

Like most of the Bible Belt. LOL!

> I wonder how ol' Earl would like living in Christian
> Africa or Guatamala..<g>
>
> -PF, etc.
>

--

Harold Saxon

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 2:02:32 AM11/20/07
to
On 20 Nov, 00:17, Virgil <Vir...@com.com> wrote:
> In article <6244k3pgkurgh0kurgko3ecpsaqi2dt...@4ax.com>,
>
> duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >> Six Myths of Atheism
>
> > >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> > >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.
>
> Aren't there over 3 billion non-Christians alive and well today?

It's actually over 4 billion.

Virgil

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 3:14:57 AM11/20/07
to
In article
<d3ffd24e-cbc3-43b9...@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Harold Saxon <saxon....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 20 Nov, 00:17, Virgil <Vir...@com.com> wrote:
> > In article <6244k3pgkurgh0kurgko3ecpsaqi2dt...@4ax.com>,
> >
> > duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > >> Six Myths of Atheism
> >
> > > >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> > > >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
> >
> > > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well
> > > today.
> >
> > Aren't there over 3 billion non-Christians alive and well today?
>
> It's actually over 4 billion.

Which is WELL over 3 billion.


> >
> > > duke, American-American
> > > *****
> > > "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> > > Pope Paul VI
> > > *****
> >

> > And prayer is the most perfect form of self-delusion.

les_on_usenet

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:29:02 AM11/20/07
to
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:46:06 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
>believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".

You can try and be as profound and serious as you like but your
god claim is just mere belief made up by ancient middle-easten
people far more primitive and ignorant tha we are now.

>
>As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
>eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
>another as he loves us.

Merely wishful thinking on your part.

Shakespeare tell us that death is, "Theat undiscovered country from
whose bourn no traveller ever returns"

No reports = no evidence

My wishful thinking is to cease existing on death, not for some
eternal existence which sounds a truly dreadful fate. We get what
we get not what we want and performing magic mumbo tricks
to some fictional god will not change that one jot.

>
>These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
>believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
>in God means to their eternal future.

Whe will you get it into your head that there has never ever been any
kind of communication from a god just many ancient people claiming it
is so.

It is thought that the oldest claimed god is "Tyr" one of the
Northern European gods (Stonehenge was built more than one
thousand years before the character 'Jesus' was created by later
writers). Shiva, ancient texts claim, walked out of the Great
Flood 3200 BCE and there is some evidence of a flood at that
time. You choose to buy the Middle-eastern myth rather than
our European one or the Indian one without the slightest shred of
evidence to show any are true. There is really no way to distinquish
between them. Your choice seems to be based entirely on wishful
thinking (the supposed offer of after life services and this daft
notion of sin that you have) though I suspect you are catholic because
you were indoctrinated into it as fact before you were old enough to
distinquish truth from fiction and are now trapped.

>
>I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
>themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
>to follow God.
>
>Spiritual suicide at it's best.

You committed spiritual suicide whjen you swallowed these myths whole.
Or were your murdered by your parents betraying you absolute
childish trust in them. The original sin Christians talk about is the
betrayal of their children by teaching them myths as fact.

Why don't you give your brain a chance for once?

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

duke

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:53:41 AM11/20/07
to
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:49:30 -0800 (PST), snex <sn...@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Nov 19, 4:46 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
>> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>>
>> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
>> eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
>> another as he loves us.
>>
>> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
>> believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
>> in God means to their eternal future.
>>
>> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
>> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
>> to follow God.
>>
>> Spiritual suicide at it's best.

>its not god that we refuse to follow. god has never even showed up to


>tell us where to go. its YOU we refuse to follow, and that just burns
>away at your ego, doesnt it?

Following me is not your problem. Refusing to follow God is what your problem
is.

duke

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:54:49 AM11/20/07
to
On 20 Nov 2007 00:04:34 GMT, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:

>Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,
>leprechans have a pot of gold and if you catch one you become rich, that
>Zeus is a jealous god, or that flinging a virgin into a volcano will prevent
>an unpleasant encounter with lava.

No leprechaun ever walked out of his grave after being dead 3 days.

duke

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:55:52 AM11/20/07
to
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:09:24 -0700, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktay...@getnet.net>
wrote:

>duke wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
>> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>>
>> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
>> eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
>> another as he loves us.
>>
>> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
>> believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
>> in God means to their eternal future.

>> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
>> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
>> to follow God.

>Hey liar, I thought you said you didn't lie or threaten. Here, you've
>just done both.
>Congratulations fuck head. It's still not working here.

My failure leaves you thinking hell is going to be fun.

Lars Eighner

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:56:26 AM11/20/07
to
In our last episode,
<67m5k3pbos45tn4iq...@4ax.com>,
the lovely and talented duke
broadcast on alt.atheism:

> On 20 Nov 2007 00:04:34 GMT, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:

>>Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,
>>leprechans have a pot of gold and if you catch one you become rich, that
>>Zeus is a jealous god, or that flinging a virgin into a volcano will prevent
>>an unpleasant encounter with lava.

> No leprechaun ever walked out of his grave after being dead 3 days.

No one ever did.

duke

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 7:57:34 AM11/20/07
to
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:52:34 -0500, "Michelle Malkin" <hypa...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
>> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too
>> smart to follow God.

>> Spiritual suicide at it's best.

>Puke's threat of the day. He refuses to understand
>or is incapable of understanding that you can't
>frighten someone with something that they don't
>believe in. The only one trying to be impish is Puke
>who thinks that his threats are cute.

You should be scared to death, because eternal torment in death is what you are
wishing for. However, no threat on my part - that's not in my charter. You're
committing spiritual suicide, not me.

Harold Saxon

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 9:14:02 AM11/20/07
to
On 20 Nov, 08:14, Virgil <Vir...@com.com> wrote:
> In article
> <d3ffd24e-cbc3-43b9-9ddb-5650278a4...@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,

> Harold Saxon <saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 20 Nov, 00:17, Virgil <Vir...@com.com> wrote:
> > > In article <6244k3pgkurgh0kurgko3ecpsaqi2dt...@4ax.com>,
>
> > > duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > >On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Six Myths of Atheism
>
> > > > >Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> > > > >confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> > > > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well
> > > > today.
>
> > > Aren't there over 3 billion non-Christians alive and well today?
>
> > It's actually over 4 billion.
>
> Which is WELL over 3 billion.
>
And that's the truth! :P

>
>
>
> > > > duke, American-American
> > > > *****
> > > > "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> > > > Pope Paul VI
> > > > *****
>
> > > And prayer is the most perfect form of self-delusion.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Harold Saxon

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 9:16:54 AM11/20/07
to
On 20 Nov, 12:54, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2007 00:04:34 GMT, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
>
> >Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,
> >leprechans have a pot of gold and if you catch one you become rich, that
> >Zeus is a jealous god, or that flinging a virgin into a volcano will prevent
> >an unpleasant encounter with lava.
>
> No leprechaun ever walked out of his grave after being dead 3 days.

No leprechaun has ever been known to die. Get hung over, fall into
someone else's grave and dig their way out three days later. But never
has one been known to die. :P

Hatter

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 9:30:48 AM11/20/07
to
On Nov 19, 7:07 pm, "Rev. Karl E. Taylor" <ktaylo...@getnet.net>
wrote:
> duke wrote:

> > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:32:05 -0800 (PST), panamfl...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >> On Nov 17, 10:31 pm, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> Six Myths of Atheism
> >> Fact: Christians wet their little panties and make up shit when
> >> confronted with the shrinking influence of their mythology.
>
> > Must be why we Christians are up to 2.2 billion people alive and well today.
>
> And still a fucking minority on the planet.
>
> Way to go Earl. Why at this rate, you all may just survive the next 50
> years.
>
> Doubtful, the way your numbers have been dropping lately.
>
> --
I disagree, Christianity still has a long dwindling twilight left in
it. As long as gibbering primitives can hold sway: Christianity will
be there. As long as people continue to indoctrinate myths into their
young before they can develop critical thinking: Christianity will be
there. As long as there is desperation: Christianity will be there. As
long as their is sensless violence: Christianity will be there. As
long as there is grinding poverty and poor education: Christianity
will be there. As long as the powers that be can use myths to keep the
populace in check and the ranks of the military full of cannon fodder:
Christianity will be there.

Hatter

Rev. Karl E. Taylor

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 11:43:57 AM11/20/07
to
No, your failure leaves me thinking your are a lying fucking moron.

--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor ktay...@getnet.net

A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob

Rev. Karl E. Taylor

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 11:45:58 AM11/20/07
to
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:52:34 -0500, "Michelle Malkin" <hypa...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
>>> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too
>>> smart to follow God.
>
>>> Spiritual suicide at it's best.
>
>>Puke's threat of the day. He refuses to understand
>>or is incapable of understanding that you can't
>>frighten someone with something that they don't
>>believe in. The only one trying to be impish is Puke
>>who thinks that his threats are cute.
>
> You should be scared to death, because eternal torment in death is what you are
> wishing for. However, no threat on my part - that's not in my charter. You're
> committing spiritual suicide, not me.
>
Projecting your own fears unto others will not help you not be afraid Earl.

Grow up, leaving the fairy tale behind. Get over your arrogant ego and understand
that you can not threaten a person with your own fears.

snex

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 12:53:37 PM11/20/07
to
On Nov 20, 6:53 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:49:30 -0800 (PST),snex<s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >On Nov 19, 4:46 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:31:54 -0500, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> Atheists just can't get over their mistaken belief that a Christian "just
> >> believes", and they, the atheists, don't "just believe".
>
> >> As many times as you tell they, they still don't get the message that one's
> >> eternal salvation is up for grabs re following the teachings of God to love one
> >> another as he loves us.
>
> >> These jerks just cruise around saying "don't hold it against me because I don't
> >> believe". They just haven't grasped how much deeper all this faith and follow
> >> in God means to their eternal future.
>
> >> I laugh every time they appear impish to the fact that they's guaranteeing
> >> themselves eternal torment with satan because they thought themselves too smart
> >> to follow God.
>
> >> Spiritual suicide at it's best.
> >its not god that we refuse to follow. god has never even showed up to
> >tell us where to go. its YOU we refuse to follow, and that just burns
> >away at your ego, doesnt it?
>
> Following me is not your problem. Refusing to follow God is what your problem
> is.

YOU are the one saying what god wants. he never seems to speak for
himself. if he spoke for himself, YOU wouldnt need to come here and
speak for him, so again, what it comes down to is that YOU cant stand
it that we dont take YOUR word on the matter.

snex

unread,
Nov 20, 2007, 12:54:18 PM11/20/07
to
On Nov 20, 6:54 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On 20 Nov 2007 00:04:34 GMT, Lars Eighner <use...@larseighner.com> wrote:
>
> >Somehow you don't get the message that unicorns will make you handsome,
> >leprechans have a pot of gold and if you catch one you become rich, that
> >Zeus is a jealous god, or that flinging a virgin into a volcano will prevent
> >an unpleasant encounter with lava.
>
> No leprechaun ever walked out of his grave after being dead 3 days.

neither has anybody else. or do you expect us to just take your word
for it?

tomr...@googlemail.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2007, 9:23:36 AM11/21/07
to

pba...@worldonline.nl

unread,
Nov 21, 2007, 10:29:28 AM11/21/07
to
> Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.

Not a myth: At least not on this NG

Read the contributions of TREUCRISTIAN, Duke and codebreaker to
confirm it.
Although many atheists need to become more logical, the most illogical
contributors to this NG are not atheists.

But actually we have never been arguing that Athiests are more logical
than believers.
We have been arguing - amongst other things - that it is not logical
for a diety to sacrife itself to itself in order to compensate for
sins that people not involved in the sacrife hadn't even made yet.


> Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.

Of course it is not. The burden of proof is on those who make
outrageous claims.
Whether or not these claims are religious should not matter.

As it happens, it is not the atheists that claim there is something
that can defy all the laws of physics. But it is the outrageousness of
the claim not the religiousness of it, that places the burdon of proof
on those who do.


> Myth: Science makes God obsolete.

Obsolete? Apperantly not. Many people are still in need of one for
some reason.

Science does however explain a great many things that were previously
seen as "act of god". The wheather, vulcanism, earthquakes, the
existence of life on this planet, the movement of the sun the moon and
the planets. The coming of comets. summer and winter. It all used to
be gods bussiness. Now it is science's bussiness to investigate, and
everytime they find a reason for something, we no longer can say "God
did it".


> Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.

Not so very mythical.

The most recent accumulation knowledge is the most reliable guide we
have, to accomplish what we want to undertake. Though if you are
baking a cake, I wouldn't bother checking the theory of relativity,
but use a good cooking guide instead.
To be sure the Dutch word is "wetenschap" which means both "science"
and "knowledge".


> Myth: Religion and science are incompatible.

Hardly a myth.

Some sort of religion is indeed incompatible with science.
Religions that do not claim to have knowledge that defies any
scientific findings are not. However more and more religion has to
leave the field to science, for as knowledge increases, blind faith
becomes more and more obsolete.


> Myth: Religion has led to violent intolerance.

This is also not a myth but a fact. (and you have indeed admitted it!)

Any ideology that claims to be the definit truth and does not respect
the freedom of opninion will and has lead to violent intolerance.
Of course if such an ideology does not contain a diety it can be just
as intolerant and using modern technique and inflicting damage on a
greater population than ever before has indeed led to greater numbers
of victims.


Anyway neither of these six statements - myth or not - are a
nescessary part of atheism. All one has to do to be an atheist is NOT
assume there is a god.


Peter van Velzen
Atheist#1107
November 2007
Amstelveen
The Netherlands

mueh...@juno.com

unread,
Dec 31, 2007, 4:32:37 PM12/31/07
to
On Nov 18, 7:23 am, Harold Saxon <saxon.har...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 18 Nov, 03:31, "J Young" <youngopini...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Six Myths of Atheism
>
> > BY The Editors
>
> > November 18-24, 2007 Issue | Posted 11/13/07 at 1:28 PM
>
> > In one respect, it's good that Golden Compass, a book by a prominent atheist
> > children's author, is being made into a movie. It could lead to a wider
> > discussion of atheism. It is easy to be a quiet atheist - but much harder to
> > remain an atheist when you actually have to explain your position. Here are
> > a few common myths about atheism that discussion can help dispel.

>
> > Myth: Atheists are more logical than believers.
>
> > A myth that is kin to this one is the myth that believers are more logical
> > than atheists. In fact, the reasons people become believers or become
> > atheists are rarely reducible to logic. Rather, a number of experiences,
> > observations and emotional states together push someone toward belief or
> > unbelief. The idea that there is an almighty God is terrifying to many
> > people. Rather than be in the power of such a being, they flee him. Others,
> > perhaps, have been so wounded by believers that they reject their beliefs
> > and not just their behavior. Logic is brought in to comfort the atheist with
> > rationalizations. On the other hand, the way we come to believe in God isn't
> > through a syllogism, either. It's through a personal encounter with Christ,
> > or with one of his proxies: beauty, truth and goodness.

>
> > Myth: The burden of proof is on the religious.
>
> > Atheists often say that the default position of mankind should be lack of
> > belief, since there is "no proof" of God's existence. Others say agnosticism
> > should be the default position of mankind: We should start out by saying "We're
> > not sure," and work from there. Anthony Flew, the prominent atheist who
> > recently converted to a position of belief in "the God of Aristotle" said
> > that the default position of mankind should be belief, since, after all, the
> > universe and its complicated laws exists, and you have to deny the obvious
> > to say that there is no creator. Flew saw three irrefutable proofs that
> > there must be a god in the laws of nature, life with its singular
> > organization and the existence of the universe.

>
> > Myth: Science makes God obsolete.
>
> > There is a widespread assumption that somehow the progress of science has
> > challenged, or will challenge, the reasons that previous generations had for
> > believing in God. But why should it? Imagine if human beings were the size
> > of microbes and lived on a tuna noodle casserole instead of our current size
> > on the earth. Imagine we became so scientifically advanced, we identified
> > all the different constituent parts of the casserole we lived on, and even
> > started to explore the vast kitchen outside the casserole. It would be
> > ridiculous for us to claim that, since we know the ingredients so well,
> > there must not have been a cook.

>
> > Myth: Science is a reliable guide for us.
>
> > In fact, if you look at the history of science, you don't see the history of
> > an infallible learning method slowly but surely widening our understanding
> > of the universe. Science is an excellent instrument for fact-finding, but
> > one that has been wrong about fundamental things at every point in its
> > history. Theories of spontaneous generation seemed entirely reasonable at
> > the dawn of science. Paul Ehrlich's theories expecting mass famine due to
> > overpopulation seemed plausible at the beginning of the 1970s. What theories
> > of today will prove just as false? Scientific knowledge at any stage of its
> > history is merely tentative, and new discoveries are continually refining or
> > discarding previous theories.

>
> > Myth: Religion and science are incompatible.
>
> > Often, fans of this myth will cite Galileo as proof that religion and
> > science are opponents in a contest that often appears to be a death match.
> > The Galileo incident is actually a good example of the real relationship
> > between science and religion. Search for Galileo at Catholic.com, to learn
> > how the incident is widely misunderstood. Galileo's theory that the earth
> > travels around the sun and not vice versa was not unique to Galileo. Others
> > held it, and the Church didn't suppress the idea. Instead, Galileo's
> > personal animus toward the Pope forced the two into a showdown. The moral of
> > the story? Real religion and honest science are certainly compatible:
> > Religious people and scientists, however, sometimes fail to be.

>
> > Myth: Religion has led to violent intolerance.
>
> > Undoubtedly, far too many religious people have been violent and intolerant.
> > But if you look at the facts about such notorious incidents as the
> > Inquisition and the witch hunts (look them up at Catholic.com), you'll find
> > that the crimes of the Church have been greatly exaggerated. Meanwhile,
> > atheist communists in the 20th century killed more people than the Church
> > was ever even accused of killing. Killed were some 65 million (and counting)
> > in China; 20 million in the Soviet Union, 2 million (and counting) in North
> > Korea, 2 million in Cambodia, 1.7 million in Africa, 1.5 million in
> > Afghanistan, 1 million in Vietnam, 1 million in communist Eastern Europe and
> > 150,000 in Latin America.
>
> > Catholics should be aware of the threats to faith posed by movies like The
> > Golden Compass, but we shouldn't be afraid of them. The Church has faced far
> > fiercer and cleverer opponents for more than 2,000 years, and we're still
> > here to tell the tale.
>
> > How are we able to come out ahead so consistently? That's easy. It's because
> > there really is a God.
>
> > --
> > Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
> > ------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDem
>
> Myths of Atheism? Only a creationist would build up such strawmen in
> order to attack atheism and science (which in his or her mind are one
> and the same thing).

I saw no attack on science in the article, just a realistic
observation about its limitations. Don't tell me atheists believe
scientific consensus has never been wrong throughout history. That
belief would be downright...irrational!

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