Many Catholics lack understanding of Church’s mystical tradition
3 views
Skip to first unread message
Mattb
Jan 14, 2022, 3:51:19 PMJan 14
to
Many Catholics lack understanding of Church’s mystical tradition
I’m not religious. I’m spiritual.”
Catholic spirituality expert Michael Hryniuk has heard this one too
many times. But he says while many people leave the Church in pursuit
of something “more spiritual,” many of those still practising their
Catholic faith miss out on the Church’s valuable mystical tradition —
often because the terminology scares them away.
“Here, when people hear ‘meditation’ they think yoga and this is a
lack of understanding about the roots of the Christian mystical
tradition,” Hryniuk said. “And when I say contemplative practices,
what we’re really talking about is ministry that’s attentive to God’s
presence and discerning the movement of the Spirit and that
accompanies people on their way to Jesus.”
This can include — but is not limited to — the practice of Christian
Centring Prayer.
“There’s nothing ‘New Age’ about this,” Hryniuk said. “New Age people
have their versions but because we haven’t cultivated our own
understanding of mystical tradition, we associate it with New Age or
we allow people to go to New Age (practices).”
Hryniuk, a theologian, author and speaker, is director of spiritual
formation for Our Lady Queen of the World parish in Toronto and
directs Theosis Resources, a consulting ministry that supports
contemplative formation and renewal in parishes, schools, dioceses and
denominational bodies. He is also an adjunct professor at the Faculty
of Theology at the University of St. Michael’s College in Toronto and
with St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish, N.S., in the diploma
program for human care and assisted living.
Most Catholics, Hryniuk said, understand the beauty of devotions like
adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and praying the rosary, but when it
comes to experiencing God without the use of words, images, symbols
and visual experiences, people are often lost and miss out on where
God is speaking throughout their day.
“It involves formation, learning how to pray and the discipline of the
spiritual life but it also involves discernment and direction,” he
said.
People trained in spiritual direction can help by guiding a person to
listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but that’s
only the tip of the iceberg. The mystical paradigm requires people to
practise contemplation, something that isn’t easy but is possible
through a variety of Catholic practices.
“(Christian) monks would recite a verse or a word continuously and it
would draw their minds to a kind of single point of awareness of God’s
presence. And this stream of spirituality coming out of the monastic
tradition became a very powerful force in the sixth and seventh
centuries,” Hryniuk said.
Taizé prayer, popular with youth, mirrors that concept, Hryniuk said.
Also common, especially in the Orthodox Church, is the Jesus Prayer,
the repeated recitation of “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy
on me.”
“What you’re doing is you’re sounding that verse, you’re repeating it
over and over again and that draws your attention more fully — it
concentrates it, focuses it on God’s presence and leads you to an
awareness of God’s presence that takes you beyond thoughts, words,
images and takes you into stillness and silence and that’s why young
people love it and flock to it.”
Unfortunately, Hryniuk said, mystical forms of prayer were always
reserved for the mystics, monks, priests or “holy people” involved in
highly specialized and focused kinds of prayer life and it was assumed
that the normal person could never experience that. But, he added, the
proof that people are thirsting for this kind of prayer life is all
around.
In the 1980s, as church attendance declined, the sale of religious
books in the United States skyrocketed — a strong indication people
were searching for something more. Today, when Hryniuk hosts retreats
on spirituality, he meets people who left the Catholic Church for
Buddhism or other practices but who say they never would have left if
they had been exposed to the Catholic mystic traditions.
Mystical prayer is another way to keep youth interested in the Church
and to help them experience God in their daily lives, Hryniuk said,
but the Catholic Church is slow to implement its use in youth ministry
programs.
As co-director of the “Youth Ministry and Spirituality Project” at San
Francisco Theological Seminary in the late 1990s, Hryniuk worked as a
consulting theologian for a project that experimented with Christian
spirituality in youth ministry. Through trial and error, it was
discovered youth couldn’t learn spiritual practices unless adults
leaders understood and practised these. Once that happened, the youth
loved it, and these particular churches, across different
denominations, have flourished because of it.
In Catholic circles, one of the most commonly known forms of Catholic
contemplative prayer is the St. Ignatian “Examen.” The Lectio Divina
also falls under the heading of contemplative prayer.
more at
https://bit.ly/3fq21ms
I’m not religious. I’m spiritual.”
Catholic spirituality expert Michael Hryniuk has heard this one too
many times. But he says while many people leave the Church in pursuit
of something “more spiritual,” many of those still practising their
Catholic faith miss out on the Church’s valuable mystical tradition —
often because the terminology scares them away.
“Here, when people hear ‘meditation’ they think yoga and this is a
lack of understanding about the roots of the Christian mystical
tradition,” Hryniuk said. “And when I say contemplative practices,
what we’re really talking about is ministry that’s attentive to God’s
presence and discerning the movement of the Spirit and that
accompanies people on their way to Jesus.”
This can include — but is not limited to — the practice of Christian
Centring Prayer.
“There’s nothing ‘New Age’ about this,” Hryniuk said. “New Age people
have their versions but because we haven’t cultivated our own
understanding of mystical tradition, we associate it with New Age or
we allow people to go to New Age (practices).”
Hryniuk, a theologian, author and speaker, is director of spiritual
formation for Our Lady Queen of the World parish in Toronto and
directs Theosis Resources, a consulting ministry that supports
contemplative formation and renewal in parishes, schools, dioceses and
denominational bodies. He is also an adjunct professor at the Faculty
of Theology at the University of St. Michael’s College in Toronto and
with St. Francis Xavier University in Antigonish, N.S., in the diploma
program for human care and assisted living.
Most Catholics, Hryniuk said, understand the beauty of devotions like
adoration of the Blessed Sacrament and praying the rosary, but when it
comes to experiencing God without the use of words, images, symbols
and visual experiences, people are often lost and miss out on where
God is speaking throughout their day.
“It involves formation, learning how to pray and the discipline of the
spiritual life but it also involves discernment and direction,” he
said.
People trained in spiritual direction can help by guiding a person to
listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but that’s
only the tip of the iceberg. The mystical paradigm requires people to
practise contemplation, something that isn’t easy but is possible
through a variety of Catholic practices.
“(Christian) monks would recite a verse or a word continuously and it
would draw their minds to a kind of single point of awareness of God’s
presence. And this stream of spirituality coming out of the monastic
tradition became a very powerful force in the sixth and seventh
centuries,” Hryniuk said.
Taizé prayer, popular with youth, mirrors that concept, Hryniuk said.
Also common, especially in the Orthodox Church, is the Jesus Prayer,
the repeated recitation of “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy
on me.”
“What you’re doing is you’re sounding that verse, you’re repeating it
over and over again and that draws your attention more fully — it
concentrates it, focuses it on God’s presence and leads you to an
awareness of God’s presence that takes you beyond thoughts, words,
images and takes you into stillness and silence and that’s why young
people love it and flock to it.”
Unfortunately, Hryniuk said, mystical forms of prayer were always
reserved for the mystics, monks, priests or “holy people” involved in
highly specialized and focused kinds of prayer life and it was assumed
that the normal person could never experience that. But, he added, the
proof that people are thirsting for this kind of prayer life is all
around.
In the 1980s, as church attendance declined, the sale of religious
books in the United States skyrocketed — a strong indication people
were searching for something more. Today, when Hryniuk hosts retreats
on spirituality, he meets people who left the Catholic Church for
Buddhism or other practices but who say they never would have left if
they had been exposed to the Catholic mystic traditions.
Mystical prayer is another way to keep youth interested in the Church
and to help them experience God in their daily lives, Hryniuk said,
but the Catholic Church is slow to implement its use in youth ministry
programs.
As co-director of the “Youth Ministry and Spirituality Project” at San
Francisco Theological Seminary in the late 1990s, Hryniuk worked as a
consulting theologian for a project that experimented with Christian
spirituality in youth ministry. Through trial and error, it was
discovered youth couldn’t learn spiritual practices unless adults
leaders understood and practised these. Once that happened, the youth
loved it, and these particular churches, across different
denominations, have flourished because of it.
In Catholic circles, one of the most commonly known forms of Catholic
contemplative prayer is the St. Ignatian “Examen.” The Lectio Divina
also falls under the heading of contemplative prayer.
more at
https://bit.ly/3fq21ms
P+Barker
Jan 14, 2022, 5:55:55 PMJan 14
to
>This can include — but is not limited to — the practice of Christian
>Centring Prayer. , we associate it with New Age or
>we allow people to go to New Age (practices).”
>Taizé prayer, popular with youth, mirrors that concept,
>In Catholic circles, one of the most commonly known forms of Catholic
>contemplative prayer is the St. Ignatian “Examen.” The Lectio Divina
>also falls under the heading of contemplative prayer.
+ Wow. You are absolutely correct.
>contemplative prayer is the St. Ignatian “Examen.” The Lectio Divina
>also falls under the heading of contemplative prayer.
I certainly know much about my religion, but....
I gots NO IDEA about mystical tradition, centring prayer, new age,
Taize prayer, or Lecto Divina.....
You nailed it.
pyotr filipivich
Jan 14, 2022, 11:44:33 PMJan 14
to
P+Barker <PBa...@gmail.com> on Fri, 14 Jan 2022 17:55:51 -0500 typed
in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
I wonder if he's ever heard of "Devotio Moderno" - lay movement in
the low countries in the 14th century if I recall correctly.
The sad part is the few knew of the churches Mystical heritage,
which is why (IMHO) so many went into the new-age, spiritual but not
religious, or flat out non-Christian worlds. Bummer
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr fillipivich
packing to move, moving, and selling a house all in six months
is its own ascetic struggle. Kyrie Elieson.
Now with Covid-19 "Operation Enduring Clusterfark"
in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
the low countries in the 14th century if I recall correctly.
The sad part is the few knew of the churches Mystical heritage,
which is why (IMHO) so many went into the new-age, spiritual but not
religious, or flat out non-Christian worlds. Bummer
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr fillipivich
packing to move, moving, and selling a house all in six months
is its own ascetic struggle. Kyrie Elieson.
Now with Covid-19 "Operation Enduring Clusterfark"
P+Barker
Jan 15, 2022, 9:13:35 AMJan 15
to
Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:
>Hey, hey! This could be big business, get away plans, monks can give away
>discounts to plebes who can cook and clean the kitchen, change the sheets on
>bedrocks. Special incenses.
>
>WOO HOO! Who needs God?
You do.
Would you like help in seeking Him?
>Hey, hey! This could be big business, get away plans, monks can give away
>discounts to plebes who can cook and clean the kitchen, change the sheets on
>bedrocks. Special incenses.
>
>WOO HOO! Who needs God?
You do.
Would you like help in seeking Him?
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 15, 2022, 9:18:56 AMJan 15
to
tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
wrong. Notice:
(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
(Ecclesiastes 7:16) Do not be overly righteous, nor show yourself
excessively wise. Why should you bring ruin to yourself?
Sincerely James
Understand the Bible
www.jw.org
servant
Jan 15, 2022, 1:05:03 PMJan 15
to
Friend james shares:
>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>wrong. Notice:
>
>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
Hmm, thenPaul is in error?
1 Thes.
5:17 Pray without ceasing.
How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
question?
Dexter
Jan 15, 2022, 7:09:56 PMJan 15
to
It's a state secret, remember?
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 16, 2022, 2:16:39 AMJan 16
to
On 15 Jan 2022 17:50:31 GMT, servant wrote:
>
>Friend james shares:
>
>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>wrong. Notice:
>>
>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>
>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
>
>Friend james shares:
>
>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>wrong. Notice:
>>
>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>
>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>
>Hmm, thenPaul is in error?
>
>1 Thes.
>5:17 Pray without ceasing.
monks who only get 3 hours sleep a night and pray the rest of the
time. They also pray by rote, and keep saying the same things over and
over. (I heard them chanting) Thus they disobey their professed
leader, Jesus:
(Matthew 6:7) When praying, do not say the same things over and over
again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get
a hearing for their use of many words.
>
>How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
>question?
enjoyable experience. Christians are commanded to preach:
(Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all
the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I
have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the
conclusion of the system of things.”
And the door to door (house to house) preaching was done in the first
century:
(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they
continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the
Christ, Jesus.
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the
things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from
house to house.
(Luke 8:1) Shortly afterward he traveled from city to city and from
village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the
Kingdom of God. And the Twelve were with him,
Thus the JW's are not religious fanatics by going house to house. They
are just following the examples of Jesus and the apostle Paul of the
first century.
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 16, 2022, 11:22:36 AMJan 16
to
Gregory Carr
Jan 16, 2022, 4:25:59 PMJan 16
to
https://www.maryknollsisters.org/pray-with-us/pray-rosary-us/?s_subsrc=20ZGCZZZ&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoY-PBhCNARIsABcz771bk6ZT9uMw5Rv0K5GRbsh8rye2AympeJy1KaWcHww3Ei5SD8upT94aAgkUEALw_wcB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_beads Prayer beads originated with the Hindus.
JESUS said to pray to GOD through him no mention in the Bible of praying to Mary or for that matter a saint.
Gregory Carr
Jan 16, 2022, 8:09:59 PMJan 16
to
Gregory Carr
Jan 16, 2022, 8:15:57 PMJan 16
to
I am the LORD thy God
No other gods before me
No graven images or likenesses
Not take the LORD's name in vain
Remember the sabbath day
Honour thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not commit adultery
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Thou shalt not covet
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 17, 2022, 11:58:58 AMJan 17
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 11:22:33 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 02:16:34 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On 15 Jan 2022 17:50:31 GMT, servant wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Friend james shares:
>>>
>>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>>
>>>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>>>
>>>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>>
>>It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
I am not saying the length of time of their prayers is totally wrong,
>On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 02:16:34 -0500, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On 15 Jan 2022 17:50:31 GMT, servant wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Friend james shares:
>>>
>>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>>
>>>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>>>
>>>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>>
>>It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
but God doesn't want our praying to be a burden. And, that to me is a
burden, esp on one's health.
Mattb
Jan 17, 2022, 1:48:50 PMJan 17
to
tradition.
servant
Jan 17, 2022, 3:12:26 PMJan 17
to
>>Friend james shares:
>>
>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>
>>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>>
>>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>
>It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
>
>>Hmm, thenPaul is in error?
>>
>>1 Thes.
>>5:17 Pray without ceasing.
>
>Paul didn't mean to pray so much as to ruin your
health, like those
>monks who only get 3 hours sleep a night and pray the rest of the
>time.
possible great joy and blessing they experienced?
>They also pray by rote, and keep saying the same things over and
>over. (I heard them chanting) Thus they disobey their professed
>leader, Jesus:
>
you knew the language of their prayers to make this claim, no?
>(Matthew 6:7) When praying, do not say the same things over and over
>again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get
>a hearing for their use of many words.
temple practices.>
>>
>>How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
>>question?
>
Friend james shares:
>>How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
>>question?
>
>If you have ever gone door to door, you know it can be quite an
>enjoyable experience.
>Christians are commanded to preach:
>
>(Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all
>the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
>and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I
>have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the
>conclusion of the system of things.
28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain
where Jesus had appointed them.
It is critical when reading scripture to first determine to whom Christ
directed His wishes after His departure.
Elsewhere He gave the apostles the authority to "bind and loosen" sin
Do jw door to dorr folk here confession and do absolutions?
>And the door to door (house to house) preaching was done in the first
>century:
>(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they
>continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the
>Christ, Jesus.
who
had been baptised into the new church? Who did the missionary trips and
wrote the letters to fulfill the Matt. "go unto the whole world"?
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 18, 2022, 8:23:36 AMJan 18
to
On 17 Jan 2022 20:12:24 GMT, servant wrote:
>
>>>Friend james shares:
>>>
>>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>>
>>>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>>>
>>>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>>
>
>>It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
>>
>Is your "to me" opinion the biblical measure?
I think the Bible gives room for that. But you may have a point. If
>
>>>Friend james shares:
>>>
>>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>>
>>>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>>>
>>>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>>
>
>>It is to me if one prays 21 hours a day, 365 days a year.
>>
>Is your "to me" opinion the biblical measure?
those monks DIDN'T find it a burden to live that way, it probably
would be all right.
>
>>>Hmm, thenPaul is in error?
>>>
>>>1 Thes.
>>>5:17 Pray without ceasing.
>>
>Adding more to his "to me" opinion friend james reflects:
>
>>Paul didn't mean to pray so much as to ruin your
>health, like those
>>monks who only get 3 hours sleep a night and pray the rest of the
>>time.
>
>Did the film say it caused them poor health?
sleep a night, every night non stop.
>What did it reflect the
>possible great joy and blessing they experienced?
also to give up meat. No more McDonald's or certain pizza's etc.
>
>>They also pray by rote, and keep saying the same things over and
>>over. (I heard them chanting) Thus they disobey their professed
>>leader, Jesus:
>>
>Hmm, is chanting repetitive prayer or instead a style of praying? No doubt
>you knew the language of their prayers to make this claim, no?
"chant
/CHant/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: chant; plural noun: chants
1.
a repeated rhythmic phrase, typically one shouted or sung in
unison by a crowd."
(https://www.google.com/search?q=define+chant&sa=Google+Search)
Notice "a repeated rhythmic phrase".
>
>>(Matthew 6:7) When praying, do not say the same things over and over
>>again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get
>>a hearing for their use of many words.
>
>Ah yes, "people of the nations" which means non-jewish in their pagan
>temple practices.>
>>>
>>>How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
>>>question?
>>
>Friend james shares:
>
>>If you have ever gone door to door, you know it can be quite an
>>enjoyable experience.
>
>Ah, in a similar manner ass the monks might experience in their prayers?
experienced joy etc. But after 7300 times (20 years) of it, I would
think it would drive them bananas.
>
>>Christians are commanded to preach:
>>
>>(Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all
>>the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
>>and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I
>>have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the
>>conclusion of the system of things.
>
>Indeed, a prior verspeaks of to whom He declared the above:>
>
>28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain
>where Jesus had appointed them.
>It is critical when reading scripture to first determine to whom Christ
>directed His wishes after His departure.
>
>Elsewhere He gave the apostles the authority to "bind and loosen" sin
>
>Do jw door to dorr folk here confession and do absolutions?
faith" religion (Eph 4:5) must follow Jesus' commands.
The apostle Paul also said:
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the
things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from
house to house.
example, Timothy was part of that group. Thus Mt 28:19,20 was not just
for the 12 apostles, but for any Christian.
>
>>And the door to door (house to house) preaching was done in the first
>>century:
>
>>(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they
>>continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the
>>Christ, Jesus.
>
>And the question is who were those who did this, apostles or all others
>who
>had been baptised into the new church? Who did the missionary trips and
>wrote the letters to fulfill the Matt. "go unto the whole world"?
servant
Jan 18, 2022, 1:37:23 PMJan 18
to
>>>>Friend james shares:
>>>>
>>>>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>>>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>>>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>>>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>>>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>>>>wrong. Notice:
>>>>>
entirely his
opinion.>>>>
One point bears expansion. Friend james mentions the "do not be repetive
in prayer" and provides this definition:
noun: chant; plural noun: chants
1.
a repeated rhythmic phrase, typically one shouted or sung in
unison by a crowd."
its use in a religious context?
A chant is a religious song or prayer that is sung on only a few notes.
Ah yes, as mentioned below; it is a vocal religious style that often
presents many different but not one phrase repeated again and again.
So in conclusion; what do we have? Multiple insertions of uninformed
opinion and a misapplied definition of a word when used in a religious
context.
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 19, 2022, 11:31:28 AMJan 19
to
"a repeated rhythmic phrase, typically one shouted or sung in unison
by a crowd".
servant
Jan 19, 2022, 1:24:28 PMJan 19
to
The word originates from older forms which have the meaning "to sing", one
variation being "chanter". That meaning is the title of one who sings
parts of a religious service, such as a jewish chanter,ie. chantor. That
is the same title of one who sings parts of the liturgy in my faith
tradition.
All that to say, it firstt means to singing and as monks do it a style of
singing scripture/OT psalms/prayers and other materials in a religious
setting.
Thus friend james heard in a language he does not know a short series of
notes which are repeated to read prayers/OT scripture/psalms etc., but not
short repeated phrases.
Here from my faith tradition in english is a 58 second chant in praise of
Christ's resurrection. It uses chant,ie. a singing form to present a part
of the celebration; note no repeated phrases which is why I chose english:
'Come recieve the light'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-La9Iv52Yk
zeb...@windstream.net
Jan 20, 2022, 10:22:07 AMJan 20
to
it only applies to exact words. The key thought to that scripture was
that the pagans used a lot of words. So one can pray a whole lot (like
21 hours of the monks) and in all likelihood God doesn't even listen
to them because they disobey His Son, Jesus.
zeb...@windstream.net
Feb 14, 2022, 5:35:01 PMFeb 14
to
On 15 Jan 2022 17:50:31 GMT, servant wrote:
>
>
>Friend james shares:
>
>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>wrong. Notice:
>>
>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>
>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
Only if they make it a burden.
>
>>I just saw a program about some monks. Their monastery sat on top of a
>>tall mountain, so it is The monks only got 3 hours of sleep a night.
>>So what did they do with their time? They prayed 21 hours a day, even
>>why they were eating! Most none insane persons would find that
>>extremely difficult. The Bible says some things that proves them
>>wrong. Notice:
>>
>>(1 John 5:3) For this is what the love of God means, that we observe
>>his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,
>
>Hmm, is it a "burden" if one freely chooses to pray?
>
>Hmm, thenPaul is in error?
>
>1 Thes.
>5:17 Pray without ceasing.
how you are misinterpreting it. Let's backup to vs 16 and add to 21:
(1 Thessalonians 5:16-21) Always be rejoicing. 17 Pray constantly.
18 Give thanks for everything. This is God’s will for you in Christ
Jesus. 19 Do not put out the fire of the spirit. 20 Do not treat
prophecies with contempt. 21 Make sure of all things; hold fast to
what is fine.
--"Always be rejoicing". You father just died, still rejoice?
--"Pray constantly." You have to go to the bathroom. Keep praying?
--"Give thanks for everything." I just broke my leg. Give thanks for
that?
--"Make sure of all things". You would have to research everything you
do, all the time.
The Bible wants you to REASON on things. Not take everything literal
or at face value.
>
>How does the 'burden" for door to door proselytizing figure in to the
>question?
His servants to be preaching at the end:
(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in
all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the
end will come.
(Matthew 28:19, 20) Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all
the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I
have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the
things that were profitable nor from teaching you publicly and from
house to house.
Worship ONLY God
Not Jesus (Mt 4:10; Col 1:15)
Do You worship the Holy Spirit?
You should if it's God.
www.jw.org
servant
Feb 14, 2022, 6:41:52 PMFeb 14
to
Preparing his letter of resignation, friend james explains the
shortcomings at the kingdom hall that brought enlightenment:
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages