Kim Clement prophecies on TBN
BigUn
that:
1) Saddam will be captured or killed in October, 2003
2) WMD will be found (U.S. & Britain justified)
3) A great economic upturn for the U.S.
4) A huge Christian revival in the Arab world
You think he's a false prophet?
--
I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.
http://www.RickRyan.com
Mike Bugal
news:7d912eb19edd1cd5...@news.meganetnews.com...
> Did you guys see Kim Clement's segment last night on TBN? He's prophesying
> that:
>
> 1) Saddam will be captured or killed in October, 2003
> 2) WMD will be found (U.S. & Britain justified)
> 3) A great economic upturn for the U.S.
> 4) A huge Christian revival in the Arab world
>
> You think he's a false prophet?
>
Did he say "God has shown me..." or "The Spirit has revealed to me..." or some
such thing like Benny Hinn usually does before he issues his false prophecies?
Rather Kim Clement turns out to be a false prophet (track record suggests he
will) in this case will be pretty evident on November 1st, won't it?
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org
vince garcia
I have to say this about kim clement: there were a couple of times,
years ago, when I was at the absolute end of my rope, after two years of
almost incomprehensible hell i won't go into, and was ready to just
depart from the faith or else do away with myself. Both times, Kim
prophetically called me out of an audience of at least 2000, read my
mail and encouraged me, and that kept me going on when i was at the edge
of the abyss. In the first case, he was speaking some disjointed things
that meant absolutely nothing to him or to anyone eslse who might have
heard them, but they were like arrows hitting a bullseye in my case. I
could see the look on his face that he was confused by what he was
saying, but it was 100% exactly what i needed to hear on specific issues
that gave me the strength to go on.
Well...I did go on, but a year later I was still struggling big time and
again on the edge, and once again he came to town. This time, he called
my sister out from a similar size audience and told her that she had
been interceding for her brother (whom he named without her saying a
word), and once again he spoke to some very specific issues that, again,
got me through what I had been going through.
Frankly, I don't think I'd be here today had it not been for Kim's
ministry in those two instances. I also want to point out, no one had
any idea what i was going through, or why, and there is no way he could
have known outside of some supernatural revelation. I sure didn't fill
out a prayer card or share what was going on with anyone, nor did i sit
there looking anything but bored. Really, he could not have known the
circumstances through any natural means.
One final incident happened at the same gathering that I later found
some confirmation for: He called out a lady and told her she had been
receiving some counselling, and that God wanted her to leave that
counsellor because he was secretly into the occult. Well, the lady
expressed some surprise since her counsellor was a baptist minister, but
she said she'd find another counsellor. So anyway, that was it.
A few weeks later, I overheard my pastor's wife talking to someone. She
had a job on the side transcribing notes from recordings, and was
bothered over the fact that a baptist counsellor she was working for had
given her recordings from an obvious seance, and she wasn't sure she
should transcribe them, so she was asking advice on whether she should
stop associating with this particular counsellor.
Personally, I found that on the mark. Sure, there is such a thing as
coincidence, but kim seemed right on with that one too. I doubt there
are too many baptist counsellors who conduct seances in my area.
Now it's true kim has doctrines i disagree with, and certainly one can
point to verifiable false prophecies the man has made, and I won't deny
that--but I can vouch for his 100% accuracy in my two cases, and a
probable accurate word in the case of the other lady.
Make of that what you will
billy jones
"vince garcia" <vgga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3F5F2C...@ix.netcom.com...
vince garcia
>
> Great testimony, Vince.
>
really it's a testimony of God's faithfulness. While i defend in
principle charismatic beliefs, when it comes down to it, i am highly
skeptical (overly skeptical) of those claiming to be USING "charismatic
gifts", and at the time i don't think i would have belived a word coming
from anyone other than kim, and I indeed got 2 from him!
I wish I could say my faithfulness as a result of those incidents was
really pumped up into total victory, but my walk continued to be a
troubled one, but it was enough to keep me hanging on when, as a person
in my 20s, trials almost as bad caused me to backslide altogether for 15
years. Even to this day I've never fully recovered from the scars of
some of the hellish prolonged trials of that period, some of which still
last to this day, but the experience with Kim was an incident which i
could always go back to in order to have absolute knowledge of God's
being with me, which I could not rationalize away. Sometimes a person
needs those watershed incidents to hold onto their faith
Mark Bassett
> billy jones wrote:
> >
> > Great testimony, Vince.
> >
>
>
> really it's a testimony of God's faithfulness. While i defend in
> principle charismatic beliefs, when it comes down to it, i am highly
> skeptical (overly skeptical) of those claiming to be USING "charismatic
> gifts", and at the time i don't think i would have belived a word coming
> from anyone other than kim, and I indeed got 2 from him!
>
> I wish I could say my faithfulness as a result of those incidents was
> really pumped up into total victory, but my walk continued to be a
> troubled one, but it was enough to keep me hanging on when, as a person
> in my 20s, trials almost as bad caused me to backslide altogether for 15
> years.
Listen, Vince ... I know it's nit picking to you, but let me ask you. Is it
scripturally correct to say (or really believe) that *trials* "caused" you
backslide?
vince garcia
>
> "vince garcia" <vgga...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3F5FC4...@ix.netcom.com...
> > billy jones wrote:
> > >
> > > Great testimony, Vince.
> > >
> >
> >
> > really it's a testimony of God's faithfulness. While i defend in
> > principle charismatic beliefs, when it comes down to it, i am highly
> > skeptical (overly skeptical) of those claiming to be USING "charismatic
> > gifts", and at the time i don't think i would have belived a word coming
> > from anyone other than kim, and I indeed got 2 from him!
> >
> > I wish I could say my faithfulness as a result of those incidents was
> > really pumped up into total victory, but my walk continued to be a
> > troubled one, but it was enough to keep me hanging on when, as a person
> > in my 20s, trials almost as bad caused me to backslide altogether for 15
> > years.
>
> Listen, Vince ... I know it's nit picking to you, but let me ask you. Is it
> scripturally correct to say (or really believe) that *trials* "caused" you
> backslide?
>
i don't know what semantic you'd want to use, but the cause and effect
were pretty clear to me. That and not being a part of a healthy well
balanced church, but rather a legalistic pentecostal church where
righteouness=godly living, which can be a recipe for disaster
Mark Bassett
Actually, backsliding invariably involves sin, and the Bible is clear
concerning the operation of sin.
Like I said, it is nit-picking, but when we speak of "cause", it seems
prudent to determine "a [contributing] cause" from the impression that these
words sometimes give: "The [sole] cause".
BigUn
leaders in this NG. You guys were so quick to scream that Hinn is a false
prophet................after some of his didn't come true. Surely you can go
ahead and take a stand against another so-called prophet BEFORE we know
whether the prophecy is true or not? Can't you?
No guts. Just a bunch of mud-slinging little wimps that are jealous of
someone else that actually has an audience to preach to of more than 10
people.
If you find that statement offense, guess that makes
you..................................<g>
Mark Bassett
Huh? Are you seriously sayng that think people accept Kim Clement as a
prophet?
Hinn has a greater stature. No wonder people take the time to tag him.
Others? You take them for granted these days.
June 1, 1999, The bird squaked...
" In America, especially, He's going to raise up 8 year olds, 9 year olds,
10 year olds, 14 year olds are going to be - and this is what the Lord told
me - He said the timing of this is at midnight, in 1999 at midnight, when we
go into the year 2000, there's going to be a swift change, just by one Word
out of His mouth. He said these children are going to have mass baptism like
a nation that can be born in a day, these children are going to receive
their turn.…"
This is the same spirit that constatly tries to avert attention form the
Lord Jesus Christ and sacrifices the vessel of his lies. Unfortunately, our
nation is so abysmally dim today that the same vessel gets reused over and
over, without being tossed out. So much the 'better' for Satan's economy.
BigUn
"Mark Bassett" <mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote in message
news:A448b.148923$Ay2.36...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>
> Huh? Are you seriously sayng that think people accept Kim Clement as a
> prophet?
>
So that's one "NOT A PROPHET" vote. Got it.
Mark Bassett
eh yea ... ah, that could have been "thinking people", or "you think".
Mike Bugal
> I must say that I'm really pretty disappointed in some of the self-appointed
> leaders in this NG.
Who have you seen appoint themselves "leaders" here?
> You guys were so quick to scream that Hinn is a false
> prophet................after some of his didn't come true. Surely you can go
> ahead and take a stand against another so-called prophet BEFORE we know
> whether the prophecy is true or not? Can't you?
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be
judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" (1 Cor. 6:2)
Righteous judgment is based on evidence, not emotion. Supposedly Clement has
made specific prophecies (I didn't hear them myself and haven't seen any links
to sound bites from the program... something usually done in these cases) and
time will tell if he is a false prophet or not. You seem to want the believers
to rush to judgment... something that you freely admit yourself was *not* done
in the case of Benny Hinn ("...*after* some of his didn't come true.")... in
short encouraging Christians to sin. By the way, I don't know what you call
"quick", but Hinn's history of false prophecies goes back over 14 years and
continues to today. The Bible says that we are to "judge nothing before the
time" (1 Cor. 4:5)... and that time is November 1st. Until then, for Clement at
least, the evidence is not in yet. For Hinn it abounds!
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org
> No guts. Just a bunch of mud-slinging little wimps that are jealous of
BigUn
"Mike Bugal" <hcm1N...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:vm24hnk...@corp.supernews.com...
> Righteous judgment is based on evidence, not emotion. Supposedly Clement
has
> made specific prophecies (I didn't hear them myself and haven't seen any
links
> to sound bites from the program... something usually done in these cases)
and
> time will tell if he is a false prophet or not. You seem to want the
believers
> to rush to judgment... something that you freely admit yourself was *not*
done
> in the case of Benny Hinn ("...*after* some of his didn't come true.")...
in
> short encouraging Christians to sin. By the way, I don't know what you
call
> "quick", but Hinn's history of false prophecies goes back over 14 years
and
> continues to today. The Bible says that we are to "judge nothing before
the
> time" (1 Cor. 4:5)... and that time is November 1st. Until then, for
Clement at
> least, the evidence is not in yet. For Hinn it abounds!
>
Okay, so that's one "I'm not going to blast him yet but I'm warming up just
in case....."
Mike Bugal
What do you have against Truth? Why are you seeking to encourage people to
follow false prophets?
Raymond
> Did you guys see Kim Clement's segment last night on TBN? He's prophesying
> that:
>
> 1) Saddam will be captured or killed in October, 2003
> 2) WMD will be found (U.S. & Britain justified)
> 3) A great economic upturn for the U.S.
> 4) A huge Christian revival in the Arab world
>
> You think he's a false prophet?
No we do get TBN and time will tell if he is or not, if not will you praise
him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
Then the upturn has alread started says the stock market, and since there is
no time limit on these other things, he could be right on those, would he
get a ok if three out of four did happen?
BigUn
"Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bjsufk$2r...@rain.i-cable.com...
>
> No we do get TBN and time will tell if he is or not, if not will you
praise
> him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
>
Raymond, my point is not really even focused on Clement or anything that he
reports God has told him to say. My intent is to get some of the loud mouths
around here to take a stand, one way or the other, BEFORE his predictions
can be verified as fact or not. Surely some of the more vocal members of
this NG, who have used scripture to declare themselves in judgeship won't be
afraid to stand up now and make their judgement? Can't they use the
scripture to rightly divide the prophecies being handed out by Clement and
determine whether or not he's speaking God's Words? Or perhaps they're
really just a bunch of loud-mouths that can only nip at someone after the
fact? Perhaps they're really just jealous because another man (that claims
to be God's servant) has a voice in more people's lives than they ever will?
Not that any preacher has ever been jealous of the size of another man's
congregation.................that NEVER happens.
To date, I only see Bassett as putting his name out there as a NO vote.
Mark Bassett
It doesn't matter what I say. To anyone who would listen to some loco-weed,
he is a "prophet"
Mike Bugal
>
> "Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bjsufk$2r...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >
> > No we do get TBN and time will tell if he is or not, if not will you
> praise
> > him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
> >
>
> Raymond, my point is not really even focused on Clement or anything that he
> reports God has told him to say. My intent is to get some of the loud mouths
> around here to take a stand, one way or the other, BEFORE his predictions
> can be verified as fact or not.
So far the only "loud mouth" that I have seen here is an anonymous coward
calling himself "BigUn" encouraging Christians to sin by judging matters before
the time... yet condemning those who have *after* the evidence is in.
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org
>Surely some of the more vocal members of
Mark Bassett
> "BigUn" <manws...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:353818554e622bec...@news.meganetnews.com...
> >
> > "Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:bjsufk$2r...@rain.i-cable.com...
> > >
> > > No we do get TBN and time will tell if he is or not, if not will you
> > praise
> > > him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
> > >
> >
> > Raymond, my point is not really even focused on Clement or anything that
he
> > reports God has told him to say. My intent is to get some of the loud
mouths
> > around here to take a stand, one way or the other, BEFORE his
predictions
> > can be verified as fact or not.
>
> So far the only "loud mouth" that I have seen here is an anonymous coward
> calling himself "BigUn" encouraging Christians to sin by judging matters
before
> the time...
Ah, Clement has almost as complete a repository of whacky declarations as
does Hinn.
Mike Bugal
>
> "Mike Bugal" <hcm1N...@socket.net> wrote in message
> news:vm4h46l...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "BigUn" <manws...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:353818554e622bec...@news.meganetnews.com...
> > >
> > > "Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:bjsufk$2r...@rain.i-cable.com...
> > > >
> > > > No we do get TBN and time will tell if he is or not, if not will you
> > > praise
> > > > him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Raymond, my point is not really even focused on Clement or anything that
> he
> > > reports God has told him to say. My intent is to get some of the loud
> mouths
> > > around here to take a stand, one way or the other, BEFORE his
> predictions
> > > can be verified as fact or not.
> >
> > So far the only "loud mouth" that I have seen here is an anonymous coward
> > calling himself "BigUn" encouraging Christians to sin by judging matters
> before
> > the time...
>
> Ah, Clement has almost as complete a repository of whacky declarations as
> does Hinn.
He may very well... I really haven't heard that much of Clement to know one way
or the other. But I'm dealing with *specifics* here. The anonymous poster has
listed a *specific* series of "prophecies" that Clement supposedly issued (I
have not heard him do this first hand and have only the word of a man who seeks
to encourage Christians to sin that this event occurred. Did you hear Clement
say these things?)that are supposed to be fulfilled in October, 2003. Clement
*may* fairly be called a false prophet based on the "repository of whacky
declarations" that you say that you know of from his past, but not on what
hasn't passed yet. Fair minded people (which I've considered you to be)don't
render verdicts until the evidence is in. That won't occur until October is
past.
Is it likely that his "prophecies" are no more "prophetic" than Benny Hinn's?
Sure! But Hinn has been called a false prophet (what the anonymous poster seems
to *really* be on about), not because others are jealous of the numbers he
attracts (as the poster falsely accuses) but rather based on his *failed*
"prophecies"... something he seems *more* than willing to overlook, painting
others as the scoundrels to excuse his hero (see below). The Word says that we
are to judge someone a false prophet when what they say the Lord told them
*doesn't come to pass*... not when we *think* that they won't. When November 1st
comes and Saddam is still alive, the WMD's haven't been found, etc. then there
will be proof of Clements's false prophethood.
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org
> > yet condemning those who have *after* the evidence is in.
>
> > >Surely some of the more vocal members of
> > > this NG, who have used scripture to declare themselves in judgeship
> won't be
> > > afraid to stand up now and make their judgment? Can't they use the
Mike Bugal
Vince, thanks for your first hand testimony on this matter. I have no first hand
knowledge of Clement's "prophecies" supposedly issued on TBN the other night,
having only the word of some anonymous poster that it occurred. I also have
urged people, even if it should be true that he did, to withhold judgment until
the events that he predicted fails to occur. For *some* reason it is important
to this poster that people label Clement as a false prophet *before* then. In
effect, he is encouraging Christians to sin by judging a matter "before the
time". It is possible that Clement will turn out to be a false prohet in these
matter. But the Bible says that we are to judge someone as being one *after*
what they say doesn't happen... not before.
BigUn
scripture correctly. I believe the Word says "don't fear" the man whose
prophecies prove inaccurate. It doesn't say to condemn him or to call him a
"false prophet", does it? Clement is no "hero" of mine, neither is Hinn.
I've just heard so many folks in this NG that speak to others in a simply
awful manner that I thought I'd try to lure some out to make a call.
You're the one that has called it correctly.
"Mike Bugal" <hcm1N...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:vm5bfit...@corp.supernews.com...
Mark Bassett
> Well Mike, at least there appears to be somebody here that is calling the
> scripture correctly. I believe the Word says "don't fear" the man whose
> prophecies prove inaccurate. It doesn't say to condemn him or to call him
a
> "false prophet", does it? Clement is no "hero" of mine, neither is Hinn.
> I've just heard so many folks in this NG that speak to others in a simply
> awful manner that I thought I'd try to lure some out to make a call.
>
> You're the one that has called it correctly.
I have no idea what Clement has said that people are waiting on to see what
happens. Here is what he said earlier:
"and this is what the Lord told me - He said the timing of this is at
midnight, in 1999 at midnight, when we go into the year 2000, there's going
to be a swift change, just by one Word out of His mouth. He said these
children are going to have mass baptism like a nation that can be born in a
day, these children are going to receive their turn.…"
Praise The Lord (TBN), June 1, 1999
Failed Prophecy: Mass Conversion of Young People at Midnight, December 31,
1999: "The Lord began to reveal to me that whenever there's any type of
violence or anything like - you know, when the African-American peoople had,
you know, the oppression they had with South Africa. South Africa is going
through one of the greatest revivals right now, moves of the Spirit - and
whenever there's that act of violence against them, it means God has
something big for them now. The children are being attacked like never
before. Abortion, the whole deal, and now watch what happens to these
children. The prophetic utterances that came out specifically this week too,
was that God said now, because of this, He is going to bring about an
immeasurable anointing upon these children - not those children in Conias,
Georgia - but upon the children of America, and I started prophesying about
the educational system and how this move of God was going to take place
outside the four walls of the system, of the structure, and go into the
schools, into the educational system, but - this is the amazing thing - the
baptism of the Holy Spirit, the infilling of the Holy Spirit, healings,
miracles, all the stuff that we've seen the A. A. Allens, the Jack Coes, the
Benny Hinns do at their age, that is going to be given to them. And, I mean,
can you imagine, you can't even imagine how these kids are going to operate
by the Spirit and be relevant in this generation. So that's why Satan has
focused in to destroy these kids, this act of violence against them. In
America, especially, He's going to raise up 8 year olds, 9 year olds, 10
year olds, 14 year olds are going to be - and this is what the Lord told
me - He said the timing of this is at midnight, in 1999 at midnight, when we
go into the year 2000, there's going to be a swift change, just by one Word
out of His mouth. He said these children are going to have mass baptism like
a nation that can be born in a day, these children are going to receive
their turn.…But at midnight there's going to be such an incredible change -
you take the sevens anywhere in the Bible. You take the seven sneezes of the
child, when Elijah went and the child was dead. Seven times he sneezed, then
the child came back to life. Resurrection of the sons that are going to come
back, the sons in the house that have died. We're talking about young people
that have been rejected are suddenly going to have resurrection power. So,
you take all the sevens, you realize we're in a very, very important
moment - I'm not going to teach on that, but prophetically, if you want to
know about Y2K, the people that are doing that are doing it to frighten the
people. If you think about Christianity, you think about Jesus. When Jesus
came on the earth, He did what He had to do, He established the New
Covenant, and now you think we're going to end up - you won't find one
Scripture that says you must hoard up and hide away.…I've got very good news
for you from the prophetic perspective, and if you trust just a little bit
of what I say, and it's this: that by the year 2000, or midnight 1999, is
going to bring about the greatest - if you want to say the final move - the
greatest display of God's glory in places that we least expected it, doing
perfect things through imperfect people, doing wonderful things in unholy
places, just like Jesus did it. It's going to revert back to the way He was
when He walked with those sandals on those dusty roads. Jesus is going to
manifest Himself in the places that He did when He started."
And ...
Kim Clement (Praise the Lord, 9/3/2001)
God wants us to go to the back streets. He wants to have a cure for AIDS. He
said it’s going to be by the year 2002, there’s going to be a cure for AIDS.
Of course these could all be bogus quotes. :-)
Mike Bugal
Why would you think that anyone expects you to post "bogus quotes"? As I've said
previously, Clement is not someone that I have taken much notice of to know what
he has or has not said. Obviously, such is not the case with you. Based on the
citations given above and the failure of what he said "the Lord told him" to
come to pass it is completely legitimate to refer to Clement as a "false
prophet"... one who "prophesies out of his own heart" and not of the heart and
mind of God (Ezekiel 13:2)... of *that* event. It doesn't excuse jumping the gun
and labeling his latest pronouncement as such until they likewise fail to
happen. Then they join the occurence you cite above in pointing out a pattern of
false prophecy (such as one could cite from Hinn's track record)that identifies
him as an official, card carrying "false prophet". But, as Big-Un says in his
reply, his track record does tell us that we are "not to fear" what Clement has
to say.
Mark Bassett
I don't think anyone expects me to post bogus quotes, Mike.
As far as his "latest pronouncment", I must have missed the boat - I dont
know what that is, and wasnt responding to this.
I have to agree with whoever was asserting that there is no cause to believe
or disbelieve any, as yet, unproven prediction, particularly where there has
been no indication of authority.
Besides, Clement is not only a messenger of some predictions, but also of a
serious of thoughts (theology, I guess it would be called in a little more
civilized motif) that are not consistent with the Biblical revelation of the
Church. As such, his predictions are no more meaningful to me personally,
than Jean Dixon's for example.
Thanks for helping me sort out what was going on.
Raymond
Raymond
www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org
"Mike Bugal" <hcm1N...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:vm4h46l...@corp.supernews.com...
Raymond
>
> "Raymond" <rwknapp[-no-scam]@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bjsufk$2r...@rain.i-cable.com...
> >
praise
> > him as much as you seem to want to prove he is not a true prophet.
> >
>
> Raymond, my point is not really even focused on Clement or anything that
he
> reports God has told him to say. My intent is to get some of the loud
mouths
> around here to take a stand, one way or the other, BEFORE his predictions
> can be verified as fact or not. Surely some of the more vocal members of
> this NG, who have used scripture to declare themselves in judgeship won't
be
> afraid to stand up now and make their judgement? Can't they use the
> scripture to rightly divide the prophecies being handed out by Clement and
> determine whether or not he's speaking God's Words? Or perhaps they're
> really just a bunch of loud-mouths that can only nip at someone after the
> fact? Perhaps they're really just jealous because another man (that claims
> to be God's servant) has a voice in more people's lives than they ever
will?
Excuse me, since when does what one thinks about another person put them on
the line? I could not stand on what another said, and say that is of God.
Only he knows if that is so. No matter how loud mouth a person is, unless
it was that person speaking and saying it was God, he and only should be
judged. Really you ask for what one can not give, and be sure of. I am a
servant of God as I would think maybe you are also, since your are writing
here. Would you stand up and affirm something of someone that says such as
being from God or not, before the fact.
>
> Not that any preacher has ever been jealous of the size of another man's
> congregation.................that NEVER happens.
Well we can see the small ones are. Then as long as it is a godly jealous,
that makes one want to do more for God and win more souls, so their
congregation will grow, would that be a bad thing?
>
> To date, I only see Bassett as putting his name out there as a NO vote.
Then that is his right to do so, I never even heard of that person, so I am
not in to voting on the matter. Time will tell and it is not that long to
wait, just think of all the post we should get on this one? Look at all
the post Benny Hinn got, when they said he made a mistake. I do pray no
one makes this a life or death thing and loose their faith in God or
salvation, one way or the other.
Raymond
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
>
>
>
Russell McDade
Look on the bright side Mike. If Clement's prophesies come true it will add
some [much needed] credibility to your George-Bush-is-a-Christian theory!
If they fail, it will add more credibility to my
George-Bush-is-only-a-politician-
theory.
Time will tell...
Russell
HP Opus
> > Based on the citations given above and the failure of
> > what he said "the Lord told him" to come to pass it
> > is completely legitimate to refer to Clement as a
> > "false prophet"... one who "prophesies out of his own
> > heart" and not of the heart and mind of God (Ezekiel
> > 13:2)... of *that* event.
>
> come true it will add some [much needed] credibility
> to your George-Bush-is-a-Christian theory!
>
> If they fail, it will add more credibility to my
> George-Bush-is-only-a-politician-theory.
> Time will tell...
GEORGE W. BUSH: [You] no-good fucking sonovabitch. (1)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: We're gonna take this thing [the evangelicals] over...
(2)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: Pussy [is what my father and I talk about]. (3)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: Go to hell... (4)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: There's Adam Clymer -- major league asshole -- from
the New York Times... (5)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: People communicate with God and reach God in different
ways. ...And I am mindful of what Billy Graham one time told me, for
me not to try to figure out...who gets to go to heaven. ...And when I
told you I'm a sinner -- you need to take that in the figurative
sense. (6)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society, so secret
I can't say anything more. (7)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: ...four Gentile governors - one Methodist, two
Catholics, and a Mormon, and several Jewish-American friends...prayed
together, on bended knee...around an altar kneeling, one common Lord.
Faith changes lives. I know, because faith has changed mine. (8)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: ["Did I have any qualms, say, about joining an elite
secret club like Skull and Bones at Yale University?"] No qualms at
all. I was honored. ...["How do I demystify it a bit for those who
might think it's a cross between a Masonic Lodge and the Trilateral
Commission?"] Without revealing all the great secrets? ...Someone a
year ahead of me tapped me. There was an entry celebration. I can't
remember whether my dad showed up or not. (9)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: Throughout the world, people of all religions
recognize Jesus Christ as an example of love, compassion, sacrifice
and service. Reaching out to the poor, the suffering and the
marginalized, he provided moral leadership that continues to inspire
countless men, women and children today. (10)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: All Presidents of the United States have come to the
National Prayer Breakfast, regardless of their religious views. No
matter what our background, in prayer we share something universal --
a desire to speak and listen to our Maker, and to know His plan for
our lives. ...Men and women can be good without faith, but faith is a
force of goodness. Men and women can be compassionate without faith,
but faith often inspires compassion. Human beings can love without
faith, but faith is a great teacher of love. ...Faith is also
important to the civility of our country. It teaches us not merely to
tolerate one another, but to respect one another -- to show a regard
for different views and the courtesy to listen. This is essential to
democracy. It is also the proper way to treat human beings created
in the divine image. We'll have our disagreements. Civility does not
require us to abandon deeply-held beliefs. Civility does not demand
casual creeds and colorless convictions. Americans have always
believed that civility and firm resolve could live easily with one
another. But civility does mean that our public debate ought to be
free from bitterness and anger, rancor and ill-will. We have an
obligation to make our case, not to demonize our opponents. As the
Book of James reminds us, fresh water and salt water cannot flow from
the same spring. (11)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take
a while... [But] we will rid the world of the evil-doers. (12)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: I have told the nation more than once that...the
teachings of Islam are the teachings of peace and good. ...And I also
appreciate the prayers to the universal God. (13)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: I appreciate your [the Russians'] understanding there
is a universal and gracious God. (14)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: ...universal God...is important -- obviously,
important part of my life, but very important part of the life of our
country. (15)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: As more and more people go to their churches and
synagogues and mosques and hear that universal call to love a
neighbor, America's culture is changing. ...Out of the evil done to
this great land is going to come incredible good... (16)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: Islam is...a faith based upon love, not hate.
...Americans of all faiths will come together in a spirit of unity...
Everybody ought to worship the Almighty, however they choose. (17)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: I am pleased to join you today in the celebration of
Eid, the culmination of the Holy Month of Ramadan. ...Islam traces
its origins back to God's call on Abraham. And Ramadan commemorates
the revelation of God's word in the Holy Koran to the prophet
Mohammad... The spirit behind this holiday is a reminder that...Islam
affirms God's justice... Eid Mubarak. God bless. (18)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely
to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home. (19)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: F___ Saddam. We're taking him out. (20)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: America welcomes individuals of all backgrounds and
religions, and our citizens hold diverse beliefs. In prayer, we share
the universal desire to speak and listen to our Maker and to seek the
plans He has for our lives. ...In this hour of history's calling,
Americans are bowing humbly in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques,
and in their own homes, in the presence of the Almighty. ...Now,
therefore, I, George W. Bush, President of the United States of
America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2003, as a National Day of Prayer.
I ask the citizens of our Nation to pray, each after his or her own
faith, in thanksgiving for the freedoms and blessings we have received
and for God's continued guidance and protection. (21)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: We are mindful as well that some good men and women
are not making the journey home. ...Every name, every life is a loss
to our military, to our nation and to the loved ones who grieve.
There is no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray in God's time
their reunion will come. (22)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
GEORGE W. BUSH: God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them,
and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did,
and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If
you [Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas] help me I will act, and
if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them. (23)
MIKE BUGAL (according to Russell McDade): George-Bush-is-a-Christian
S O U R C E S
(1) George W. Bush in April 1986, addressing Al Hunt of the Wall
Street Journal, quoted in Jake Tapper, "God Is Their CoPilot: Both
Born-Again, Bush and Gore Have Made This the Most God-Fearing
Presidential Race in 100 Years. But Their Faiths Have Led these Men in
Two Completely Different Directions," SALON, 07 July 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/07/07/born_again/.
(2) George W. Bush in March 1987 quoted by Doug Wead, cited in Hanna
Rosin, "Applying Personal Faith to Public Policy: 'Changed Man'
Advocates Church-Based Programs," WASHINGTON POST, 24 July 2000,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A31740-2000Jul23¬Found=true.
"[George W. Bush's] father, then running for president, was under
attack by what inside the campaign they called 'the aliens' --
evangelical Republicans flocking to the candidacy of Pat Robertson.
Bush arrived in Washington in March 1987 and was put in charge of
'coalitions,' the campaign code word for evangelicals. 'He came in
and said, "We're gonna take this thing over,"' recalls Doug Wead, a
campaign aide with ties to the evangelicals and Bush's partner in the
venture."
(3) George W. Bush in response to a Hartford [Connecticut] Courant
reporter who asked what Bush and his father talked about when they
weren't discussing politics at the 1988 Republican convention, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.
(4) Texas Governor George W. Bush in 1998, right before leaving for a
trip to Israel, in response to an Austin American-Statesman reporter
who asked Bush what he would say to the Israelis upon arrival, quoted
in Jake Tapper, op. cit.
(5) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Jake Tapper, "A 'Major
League Asshole': In an Embarrassing Gaffe, George W. Bush Insults a
New York Times Reporter," SALON, 04 September 2000,
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/09/04/cuss_word/.
(6) Texas Governor George W. Bush, "George W. Bush: Running on His
Faith," US NEWS ONLINE, 1999,
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/33/story_3345_1.html.
(7) Texas Governor George W. Bush, A CHARGE TO KEEP, ed. Mickey
Herskowitz, Morrow,William & Co., November 1999.
(8) Ibid.
(9) Texas Governor George W. Bush interviewed in Walter Isaacson, "My
Heritage Is Part of Who I Am," TIME, 30 July 2000,
http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview1.html
and http://www.time.com/time/campaign2000/story/textframe_bushinterview2.html.
(10) Texas Governor George W. Bush, quoted in Laurie Goodstein,
"Bush's 'Jesus Day' Is Called a First Amendment Violation," NEW YORK
TIMES, 06 August 2000, http://www.beth-am.org/index2.cfm?page=362.
(11) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President at
National Prayer Breakfast, Washington Hilton Hotel, Washington. D.C.,"
Office of the Press Secretary, 01 February 2001,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/02/20010201.html.
(12) US President George W. Bush quoted in John F. Harris, "Bush Gets
More International Support For U.S. Campaign Against Terrorism:
Officials Warn New Attacks Are Possible," WASHINGTON POST, 17
September 2001, page A01,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41157/2001Sep16.html.
(13) US President George W. Bush, "Text: Bush Welcomes Muslim
Americans to White House," 26 September 2001,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/attacked/transcripts/bushtext2_092601.html.
(14) US President George W. Bush, "Remarks by the President to
Community and Religious Leaders, Spaso House, Moscow, Russia," Office
of the Press Secretary, 24 May 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/05/20020524-12.html.
(15) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush, President Putin
Discuss Joint Efforts against Terrorism: Remarks by President Bush and
Russian President Putin in Photo Opportunity - Calgary, Kananaskis,
Canada," Office of the Press Secretary, 27 June 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/06/20020627-3.html.
(16) US President George W. Bush, "President Talks Homeland/Economic
Security at Mt. Rushmore: Remarks by the President on Homeland
Security and the Budget," Mount Rushmore, South Dakota, Office of the
Press Secretary, 15 August 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020815.html.
(17) US President George W. Bush, "President Bush Holds Roundtable
with Arab- and Muslim-American Leaders, Embassy at Afghanistan,
Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 10 September 2002,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020910-7.html.
(18) US President George W. Bush, "President Commemorates Eid al-Fitr:
Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr, The Islamic Center of
Washington, D.C., Washington, D.C.," Office of the Press Secretary, 05
December 2002, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021205-5.html.
(19) US President George W. Bush, "President Addresses Nation on Space
Shuttle Columbia Tragedy: Remarks by the President on the Loss of
Space Shuttle Columbia, The Cabinet Room, 01 February 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030201-2.html.
(20) US President George W. Bush at the White House in March 2002,
quoted in Michael Elliott and James Carney, "First Stop, Iraq: How Did
the U.S. End up Taking on Saddam? The Inside Story of How Iraq Jumped
to the Top of Bush's Agenda -- and Why the Outcome There May
Foreshadow a Different World Order," TIME, 23 March 2003,
http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101030331/wroad.html.
(21) US President George W. Bush, "National Day of Prayer, 2003, by
the President of the United States of America: A Proclamation," Office
of the Press Secretary, 30 April 2003,
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030430-22.html.
(22) US President George W. Bush, "Full Text: Bush Speech Aboard the
USS Abraham Lincoln," 01 May 2003,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2627-2003May1.html.
(23) US President George W. Bush, quoted by Palestinian Prime Minister
Mahmoud Abbas, in Arnon Regular, "'Road Map Is a Life Saver for Us,'
PM Abbas Tells Hamas," HAARETZ, 25 June 2003,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y.
Also cf. Chris Floyd, "Errand Boy," MOSCOW TIMES, 27 June 2003,
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2003/06/27/120.html.
One with you in Christ,
Mark Bassett
After Big'Un and Mike seem to have clarified their comments, that the
inquiry related to some prediction for October 2003, I stated that I had not
heard of any such prediction, and was basing my response only to published
quotes that relate to times gone by, and earlier failed efforts to
"prophecy" the future.
> Raymond
> www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Raymond
Which is your right to do. Thank you for your reply.
Raymond
>
> > Raymond
> > www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>