International Church Named in Sexual Assault Lawsuit
Timmer
International Church Named in Sexual Assault Lawsuit
Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th judicial district
of Angelina County, Lufkin Texas. Defendants in this case are e)United
Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) in Saint Louis MO, k)Texas District
of the United Pentecostal Church, g)United Pentecostal Church of Eastland
Texas, n)Bobby Hart and Jonathan Mark Hart. Jonathan Mark Hart was convicted
in Eastland, TX, Feb. 1999, on 3 counts of sexual assault of a minor child.
The female children were 15 and 16 years of age and members of the Youth
Group at Eastland United Pentecostal Church. Jonathan Hart attended Bible
College at o)Gateway College of Evangelism and was acting Assistant Pastor
at the Eastland United Pentecostal Church. He and his wife were the
designated Youth Directors as well. Assaults on these young girls occurred
on Church property and on Church related trips supervised by Jonathan Hart.
Bobby Hart is the Father of Jonathan Hart and was also the Pastor of the
Eastland Church at the time of the assaults. Bobby Hart appointed Jonathan
Hart to both leadership positions.
Bobby Hart and wife Debbie became aware of their Son's activities some
months before the parents of the victims learned of the crimes on 6/15/98.
Bobby Hart allowed Jonathan to continue working with children and to retain
his position as Assistant Pastor, even after learning of his crimes.
Bobby Hart is a licensed minister with UPCI and the local church in Eastland
is affiliated with UPCI. A certified letter detailing the assaults was sent
to k)James Kilgore and received by him on 7/09/98. UPCI sent three
representatives to investigate the situation. Representatives for UPCI were
h)Wendell Elms, i)Kerry Sharp and j)David Bernard. Victims were told that
there was evidence of Ministerial misconduct but the investigative team took
no immediate action. Bobby Hart refused to resign and was allowed to
continue as Pastor. He finally resigned in late November 1998. Bobby and
Son, Jonathan Hart, along with their families, have since moved to Athens
Texas and are involved in the m)United Pentecostal Church there. Bobby Hart
still holds a license with the UPCI and has never been reprimanded in any
way.
The Plaintiffs in this case maintain that UPCI either knew or should have
known the risks associated with leadership roles involving children. An
aggressive campaign by UPCI to recognize and minimize these risks would have
afforded substantial protection to the victims in this case and potential
victims in other UPCI churches. However, UPCI's top man, f)Nathaniel Urshan,
insists that UPCI has no duty to protect children in their more than 21,000
churches. The lack of adequate safeguards places thousands of children at
risk of similar assaults. The fact that no disciplinary action has yet been
taken in this case, gives rise to grave concern that UPCI will continue to
ignore its duty in this area and responsible ministers will go unpunished.
UPCI has substantial resources to implement and maintain programs to
minimize known risks to children attending Sunday school and Youth oriented
events endorsed by its Churches. Plaintiffs' goal is to see that UPCI
recognizes this responsibility and begins a policy of prevention to be
implemented at the Local Church level.
Defendants in this case deny any responsibility. UPCI claims that local
churches are autonomous. However, the UPCI manual and constitution provide
for a substantial level of control over affiliated churches. For example,
the Pastor of any affiliated church must be licensed by UPCI. Licensed
ministers pay $303 per year to maintain their license. The f)General
Superintendent for UPCI must approve and sign all licenses issued to
ministers. Affiliated churches must follow a form of government approved by
UPCI. Affiliated churches may only disaffiliate through a formal process
requiring the presence and approval of UPCI. Members of UPCI affiliated
churches are forbidden to swim with persons of the opposite sex and there
are strict rules against owning a television. Affiliated churches
participate in soliciting donations to UPCI sponsored fundraisers. These
include Sheaves for Christ, Home Missions and Foreign Missions, to name a
few. The "Sheaves for Christ" fundraiser boasts over 57 million dollars in
donations since its inception. It is frightening to think that this
International organization, with this kind of resources and power to
influence millions of people, has not recognized its responsibility to
protect the children in its local churches.
The United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) in North America lists
3,876 churches, reports a Sunday school attendance of more than 400,000 and
has an estimated constituency of at least 600,000. UPCI is headquartered in
St. Louis MO. And has district offices located in every state. UPCI also has
a presence in 136 other nations. With 15,882 licensed ministers, 21,407
churches and meeting places, and a foreign constituency of over 1.9 million,
the total worldwide constituency is more than 2.6 million. UPCI website:
http://www.upci.org/
1.. Attorney for Plaintiffs: John David Hart - 201 Main Street - Suite
1720 - Fort Worth, TX 76102 - phone: 817-870-2102 - 1-800-247-1623
2.. Attorney for UPCI: Lynn Fielder - 2710 N. Stemmons Freeway - 400
Stemmons Tower North - Dallas, TX 75207 - phone: 214-638-3744
3.. Attorney for Texas District of UPCI: Thomas W. Deaton - Flournoy &
Deaton - PO Box 1546 - 118 South Second Street - Lufkin, TX 75901 - phone:
936-639-4466
4.. Attorney for Eastland United Pentecostal Church: Gregory L. Longino -
101 South First Street - Lufkin, TX 75901 - phone: 936-639-5999
5.. United Pentecostal Church International: 8855 Dunn Road - Hazelwood,
MO 63042-2299 - phone: 314-837-7300 / FAX: 314-837-4503.
6.. Nathaniel A. Urshan: General Superintendent for UPCI - Board of
General Presbyters - Minister's Retirement Fund Administrative Committee -
Church School Executive Committee - President of Pentecostal Publishing
House - Harvestime Director and Speaker - 8821 Dunn Rd. - Hazelwood, MO
63042 - phone: 314-839-2516
7.. Eastland United Pentecostal Church: 206 N. Dixie - Eastland, TX
76448 - phone: 254-629-2410 - Current Pastor: Windell Chance
phone: 254-629-1823
8.. Wendell P. Elms: Presbyter for Texas District of UPCI - 4353 Chelsea -
Wichita Falls, TX 76309 - phone: 817-696-5673
9.. Kerry Sharp: 3706 Woodcrest Dr. - Temple, TX 76502
phone: 817-778-0689
10.. David K. Bernard: Presbyter for Texas District of UPCI - Associate
Editor and Executive Publication Committee for The Pentecostal Herald (this
magazine is recommended reading for every member of any United Pentecostal
Church) - 4405 Andalusia Dr. - Austin, TX 78759 - phone: 512-795-0505
11.. James L. Kilgore: District General Presbyter for State of Texas -
Superintendent for Texas District of UPCI - PO Box 15175 - Houston, TX
77020 - phone: 281-996-5630
12.. Danny R. Russo: Secretary/Treasurer for Texas District of UPCI - Rt.
4 Box 1947 - Lufkin, TX 75901 - phone: 409-632-4764
13.. First United Pentecostal Church of Athens Texas: 101 McArthur - PO
Box 431 - Athens, TX 75751 - phone: 903-675-5089
Pastor: O. E. Davis - 206 S. Wofford Street - Athens, TX 75751
14.. Bobby Hart: 10600 F.M. 753 - Athens, TX 75751 - phone: 903-675-6765
15.. Gateway College of Evangelism: PO Box C - Florissant, Missouri
63031 - phone: 314-838-8858 - website: http://www.gatewaycollege.net/
[Back to top]
Mr. Gone
allowing teenage girls to get haircuts, wear slacks and makeup you bet
that UPCI headquarters would be all over him. But diddling the
kiddies...nah, not their responsibility. Apparently to the UPCI
leadership, that's not a "holiness issue." Sad but true.
Interesting article. Where did you get it?
"Timmer" <Timst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oCE08.7644$Y56.140...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>...
Pastor Steve Winter
>"Timmer" <Timst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<oCE08.7644$Y56.140...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>...
>> International Church Named in Sexual Assault Lawsuit
>>
>> Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th
>>judicial district
I really don't know if what you have published is true or
not, but I know that I and my family have been the victim
of harassment and criminal activity by a UPCI preacher
(Mark Bassett) and the leadership just doesn't care.
They are apparently much more interested in sweeping any
such matters under the rug rather than prevention.
I have also documented another UPC preacher in Texas who
his now serving 5 years as a child molester and he was
holding his UPC preacher license right up until his arrest.
and http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Here are some excerpts from http://www.impsmail.org
Update 1/26/2000 Jerome Campbell formerly of Montgomery St in
Clarendon, TX, the licensed UPC preacher, who Jerry Moon was boasting
about being his "good friend who would attend trinitarian concerts
with him", was sentenced to 5 years in prison for each of the two
counts of indecency with a child. The sentences are to be served
concurrently without chance of parole.
me0306.txt This is my 3/6/99 reply to a Christian regarding the
reprobates from the UPC and the damage that they do with their lying
and malicious activities. I also comment about the trinitarian false
christians and several other things including the UPC preacher in
Texas who was arrested last year as a child molester.
me02039.txt This is my 2/3/99 public reply to more of Mark Bassett's
lying regarding his harassment by wire of my then 14 year old daughter
calling her attention to bizarre sex allegations on USENET. Quoted
also is another admission by Mark Bassett regarding the event. I also
comment about the uu.net security dept throwing their integrity into
the sewer regarding the ongoing malicious and criminal activity from
iconn.net
Quoting from one of the files at
http://www.impsmail.org/jerrmoon.html
http://www.impsmail.org/mm05299.txt
in case the Inditement numbers are helpful
When Mr. Moon's "dear friend" the licensed UPC preacher Jerome
Campbell was arrested as a child molester (Clarendon, TX, Donley
County, Criminal Incitements 2914 and 2915 for indecency with a
child) Mr. Moon quit boasting about his UPC preacher friend who
would attend the false christian concerts with him.
Any real Christian Brethern out here, it might be time for
you to wake up about the corruption in the UPCI. It is REAL!!
Bassett is just one small symptom of a much greater disease!
Pastor Winter
--
"Winters, you are a blabbering heretic. In a truly godly
nation you would be executed for publicly promoting your
heretical doctrines." - Tom Albrecht trinitarian deceiver 2000
"Copyright infringement my ***" (obscenity deleted) - Brian Boggs cultist 2000
"lying to mr. winter is just a defense" - Mark Bassett UPC Preacher 1999
"It isnt a salvation issue..." - Mark Bassett 1999 regarding Biblical holiness
"Sorry old man. I never lie, if I, can help it." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
"...God is Triune in nature..." - Raymond W Knapp 2000
",I did get saved in a Southern Baptist Church," - Raymond Knapp 2000
http://www.onenesschristian.org Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal
See reprobates Bassett, Moon & Knapp in action: http://www.impsmail.org
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th judicial district
of Angelina County, Lufkin Texas.
What was the outcome of this trail?
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
--
One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism
Huldah
This is interesting. I wonder if the controversial UPCI Church in
Brazil had gone through this formal disaffiliation process?
---
Huldah
The Bible versus the 'Oneness' Pentecostals:
http://psouth.net/bigfoot/op.html
Mark Bassett
"Timmer" <Timst...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:oCE08.7644$Y56.140...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
>
The complete text of the original post is published below. When this was
first published, 2 days ago, I had not heard of these events and thought
that, rather than make rash statements, I would seek the truth of the
disposition of these matters. In the following brief comment, I will make
confirmed statements regarding the issues.
First, let me say that the article, as written is unfortunate because it is
outdated (mentioning a court proceeding that clearly will have already taken
place, but not the results of case), and that, given this omission, it was
written with obvious prejudice. I notice that the publication of the
comments reaped a harvest of several condemning follow-ups. I cannot say if
this was intended or not, but I find it sad that people would exploit the
sensational nature of this information, in absence of the information that
is obviously omitted, to make a political point. Notice please, that the
statements that were published (and reposted below as "Article A"), are
merely the accusations of the plaintiffs in the case.
I am in possession of a written statement from the man who chaired the
investigatory committee, looking into the ministerial ethics violations in
1998. I have chosen not to republish his comments as written because he did
not ask that I would, and second, given the hostile nature of the audience
at times, it would be unfair to him. Nevertheless, I affirm that the
statements that follow are true.
When I first read the article, I sought to confirm that there had been a
crime. Indeed, I located the name of the wrongdoer listed with the Texas
Department of Public Safety as a sexual offender. The date of conviction and
other details matched the article, so I proceeded to inquire concerning the
present disposition of the case.
Regarding the legal case, the trial anticipated in Article A was held and
the court gave summary judgment in favor of the UPCI, and the Texas District
of the UPCI. The case is being appealed.
Regarding the crime itself: The wrongdoer was convicted of voluntary sexual
acts committed while he was 19 years of age with three girls, aged 15 and
16. The UPCI officially and unequivocally condemns these acts. However, the
wrongdoer is not and was never licensed or ordained by the UPCI and as such,
the UPCI has no jurisdiction over him.
Regarding additional charges and implications: The wrongdoer's father was
and is a licensed minister of the UPCI. His actions regarding this matter
were certainly questionable. Consequently, an investigatory committee was
formed, resulting in handing the entire issue over to the UPCI for a full
judicial review procedure (this means that the matter was very serious, and
the Texas District found evidence that the minister in question needed to be
evaluated). In the UPCI, as in any organization, the individual's have a
right to trial, and judicial evaluation in a comprehensive and unbiased
setting. This procedure was halted however, by the plaintiffs in the case,
who were advised by their atty. not to attend the judicial review but rather
to sue the UPCI instead. Without the accusers, the judicial procedure could
not continue. Further, during the interview by the TX District investigatory
committee, those who later brought the charges stated that their intent in
bringing these charges was to force the licensed minister to resign as
pastor of the church. He did, in fact resign after protest of about three
months, not as quickly as they would have liked.
Regarding the matter of moral responsibility and legal culpability of the
UPCI regarding the criminal activity of the son of one of it's ministers: It
is best to quote the chairman of the investigatory committee here, in full,
regarding this matter.
"The legal position of the UPCI and of the general superintendent is
supported by US law. Our form of church government is basically
congregational, which means that each local assembly is autonomous in its
local operation. While we have theological and ecclesiastical oversight of
our ministers, we do not have the legal authority to control local churches.
We cannot require them to operate in a certain way, to hire or not to hire
certain people, to train or supervise workers in a certain way, and so on.
This fact is stated in our Manual and has been upheld by many courts. We do
fulfill our moral responsibility to train pastors in matters such as these
through ministerial reading requirements, seminars, and publications. As an
analogy, the UPCI's relationship with its ministers and affiliated churches
is like that of a state bar association with its members and their law
firms. In both cases, the organization can have certain standards for
membership, can require certain obligations of members, and can discipline
its members, but it cannot control their daily operations, and therefore it
has no legal liability for any personal wrongdoing by them."
I would like to amend these comments by adding that the individual ministers
also have right to justice and cannot by disciplined or put out of the
organization, without due process and proper represtation in a judicial
review, as mentioned before. The fact is, the minister in question resigned
at the urging of leadership, and has not up to the present day, taken on
leadership roles.
The UPCI, like other organizations, has numerous options open in terms of
discipline and dealing with ethical violations. It should be noted that not
every option is seen outwardly, and it should not be assumed that, if a
person has not been castigated in a manner that is available for all to see,
that he has not been very severely humiliated and driven to repentance.
While doubts and negativity are understandable, and even reasonable, the
leadership that has the responsibility to responding to these very rare and
unfortunate (yet inevitable with large numbers) kinds of incidents live with
and must do their best to deal with the individuals AFTER the incident,
retaining sight of and belief in the ideals of repentance, spiritual
maturity of the body, and ultimately widescale revival of both spiritual
life and morality in our world.
I personally take this kind of event very seriously, and realize that the
occasion of sin gives rise to both just and unjust accusations. I
investigated this thoroughly, not because I want to defend the ministerial
fellowship that I love, but because conscience and community both demand
answers, and the greatest good is done when the truth is told.
-Mark W Bassett
---------------------- ARTICLE "A"----------------------
---------------------- END OF ARTICLE "A"----------------------
Jim Wardrip
> Excuse me, TRIAL?
>
> "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" wrote:
>
> > International Church Named in Sexual Assault Lawsuit
> >
> > Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th judicial district
> > of Angelina County, Lufkin Texas.
> >
> > What was the outcome of this trail?
Interesting to see Pastor Steve and Huldah on the same side of an
issue! Of course they have different reasons for their positions,
Huldah to attack anything Oneness and the good pastor to take another
cheap shot at Mark.
If this has concerned a Baptist minister or Catholic priest (both
groups have had their share of the same problem) no one would have
posted it here to begin with. However, since it happened in the UPCI
it's front page news. Of course, with the above individuls, anyone
connected with the UPCI or Apostolic churchs in general is guilty of
the same crime by association.
JW
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
Jim Wardrip wrote:
--
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>Interesting to see Pastor Steve and Huldah on the same side of an
>issue! Of course they have different reasons for their positions,
>Huldah to attack anything Oneness and the good pastor to take another
>cheap shot at Mark.
>
>If this has concerned a Baptist minister or Catholic priest (both
>groups have had their share of the same problem) no one would have
>posted it here to begin with.
Jim Wardrip again shows himself for the low life lying trash that he
is. Isn't it interesting the level of scum that will try
to defend Bassett in his sin.
At http://www.prime.org/Sewers.html I have been documenting Jim's
other spiritual brethren for quite some time.
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
"Mr. Gone" wrote:
> Shows where the UPCI's priorities are. If one of their pastors began
> allowing teenage girls to get haircuts, wear slacks and makeup you bet
> that UPCI headquarters would be all over him. But diddling the
> kiddies...nah, not their responsibility. Apparently to the UPCI
> leadership, that's not a "holiness issue." Sad but true.
>
"Mr. Here" wrote:
That you Billy? That is a sloppy, sarcastic, remark.
No need for that remark. You know that is not the truth.
Any sin is an holiness issue and should be addressed, if the need be.
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>Preach it Rev. !
>
>Jim Wardrip wrote:
You scum will defend anything!
See folks, the weak minded Taylors, spiritual dimbulbs, decided
to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark Bassett).
But look at how quickly they have joined him in sin!
You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end up as some
religious scum like the Taylors!
See what the sinful, lukewarm spiritual filth, the Taylors
condone and support at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
These reprobate spiritual filth do not represent "Oneness"
except to testify to the backslidden and pride engorged
condition of some in UPCI leadership.
The Taylors have joined the handful of dimbulbs who threw away
their integrity, honor, and salvation to support the
reprobate Mark Bassett in his life of unrepentant sin.
Let any real Christians join with me in prayer that
the Taylors would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him.
Pastor Steve Winter
>> International Church Named in Sexual Assault Lawsuit
>> Case No. 31,691-98, is set for trial 04/23/01 in the 12th
>>judicial district
And, as I said before....
and http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Pastor Winter
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
little Joybelle is a s***, Mark Bassett is a r*******, Raymond is a nothing, Jim,
well I forgot what he called him, and now you have a title, too!
The names the Village Idiot, Rev. of the three pew church, bestows upon us. You
know the poor want-to-be preacher has a very limited vocabulary. Nothing but
cursing. I note also that he posted a rather shady posts about the arabs in
h***. I wonder how his poor cluttered brain ticks.
Of course, I am a "dimbulb" with just a little light, but his poor circuit board
has totally shorted out! He has gonna have to be completely overhauled with the
circuit board renewed before he can ever achieve equality with a dimbulb.
John Fraser
It's interesting that your published incident reports never got any
further than a telephone call. So much for criminal activity. Of course,
it's no secret that you have already condemned the man.
Cheers,
John
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:0d494ukncc9kv8so0...@4ax.com...
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
you, next time.
"<--->" wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:33:26 -0600, "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor"
> <rob...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Jim, so you are trash? Well I do declare!......Winters says I am a dimbulb, poor
> >little Joybelle is a s***, Mark Bassett is a r*******, Raymond is a nothing, Jim,
> >well I forgot what he called him, and now you have a title, too!
> >The names the Village Idiot, Rev. of the three pew church, bestows upon us. You
> >know the poor want-to-be preacher has a very limited vocabulary. Nothing but
> >cursing. I note also that he posted a rather shady posts about the arabs in
> >h***. I wonder how his poor cluttered brain ticks.
> >Of course, I am a "dimbulb" with just a little light, but his poor circuit board
> >has totally shorted out! He has gonna have to be completely overhauled with the
> >circuit board renewed before he can ever achieve equality with a dimbulb.
> >
>
> Now you listen here, you dimbulb........!!! I am greatly insulted!!
> :o)
> You forgot poor little old me------- the useless trinity-filth, anon,
> gutless spiritual slut from the sewers of slurp.net---------- and my
> friend, Rod- who is a piece of trash from slurp also!!!!!!!!!!
> Smarten up and get it right, will ya? !!!!! hehehe :o)
>
> >Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
> ^^^^^^^^^^If only he knew how many LAUGHS he's given us........
>
> Doc :o)
> _____________________________________________________
> SMILE ! Only a DENTIST should look down in the mouth!
> _____________________________________________________
Rip
reprimanding me for improper
netiquete....
"<--->" wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:33:26 -0600, "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor"
> <rob...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >Jim, so you are trash? Well I do declare!......Winters says I am a dimbulb, poor
> >little Joybelle is a s***, Mark Bassett is a r*******, Raymond is a nothing, Jim,
> >well I forgot what he called him, and now you have a title, too!
> >The names the Village Idiot, Rev. of the three pew church, bestows upon us. You
> >know the poor want-to-be preacher has a very limited vocabulary. Nothing but
> >cursing. I note also that he posted a rather shady posts about the arabs in
> >h***. I wonder how his poor cluttered brain ticks.
> >Of course, I am a "dimbulb" with just a little light, but his poor circuit board
> >has totally shorted out! He has gonna have to be completely overhauled with the
> >circuit board renewed before he can ever achieve equality with a dimbulb.
> >
>
> Now you listen here, you dimbulb........!!! I am greatly insulted!!
> :o)
>
He must have blow at least two gaskets coming up with that one...
> You forgot poor little old me------- the useless trinity-filth, anon,
> gutless spiritual slut from the sewers of slurp.net
Now, I've tried to figure out what a spiritual slut really is, and have come to the
conclusion that one such spiritual slut must
be able to get in bed with at least one other religeon in order to qualify.
> ---------- and my
> friend, Rod- who is a piece of trash from slurp also!!!!!!!!!!
Yea I am !!!! :>) I'm surprised that I haven't heard or seen anything from the ng
ogre about the talking email I sent him
the other night....I was hoping for at least a threat or two, maybe even one of his
famous subpoena threats. I'm kind of
dissappointed now.......
Jim Wardrip
> Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
> > Jim Wardrip again shows himself for the low life lying trash that he
> > is. Isn't it interesting the level of scum that will try
> > to defend Bassett in his sin.
> >
> > At http://www.prime.org/Sewers.html I have been documenting Jim's
> > other spiritual brethren for quite some time.
> >
> > Pastor Winter
"Low life" -- "lying" -- "trash" -- "scum" Beautiful words from
the mouth of a "pastor". First of all, MR. Winter, you don't know
what kind of life I live, whether low, high, or just middle class.
Second, it's no lie to say that you jump on the band wagon to
discredit someone else's ministry at every opportunity, even in this
case when the band is marching to the trinity beat. As for trash and
scum, I'll consider them compliments coming from you. It seems I'm in
good company.
Concerning documenting my other spiritual brethern, it is quite plain
that you have no spiritual brethern. You are an organization of one,
too far off the deep end to fellowship with anyone. Several web pages
also document your activities. Now go on back in your room and play
church and leave decent folks alone.
JW
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>Any sin is an holiness issue and should be addressed, if the need be.
Robert is in denial about the corruption in the UPCI, of course
he supports reprobate Bassett in his sin....
You reprobate dirt would be funny in your hypocrisy were
you not now so malicious.
The weak minded Taylors, spiritual dimbulbs, decided
to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark Bassett).
But look at how quickly they have joined him in sin!
You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end up as some
religious trash like the Taylors!
See what the sinful, lukewarm spiritual filth, the Taylors
condone and support at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
These reprobate, hypocrite, spiritual filth do not represent
"Oneness" except to testify to the backslidden and pride
engorged condition of some in UPCI leadership.
They have joined the handful of dimbulbs who threw away
their integrity, honor, and salvation to support the
reprobate Mark Bassett in his life of unrepentant sin.
Let any real Christians join with me in prayer that
the Taylors would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him.
Pastor Winter
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>"Low life" -- "lying" -- "trash" -- "scum" Beautiful words from
>the mouth of a "pastor". First of all, MR. Winter, you don't know
>what kind of life I live
You have shown that you endorse and support sin (the sin of
reprobate Bassett) and you have shown yourself to be
a spiritually incompetent, spiritual whore.
Isn't it interesting the level of dirt that will support
reprobate Bassett in his life of sin!
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
>
>
> And, as I said before....
>
> I really don't know if what you have published is true or
> not, but I know that I and my family have been the victim
> of harassment and criminal activity by a UPCI preacher
> {snip} and the leadership just doesn't care.
>
> They are apparently much more interested in sweeping any
> such matters under the rug rather than prevention.
Robert Wrote:
They probably know of your malicious actions and stupid ways. How can anyone take
a "dimbulb" {love that word} Village Idiot serious about anything.
Bud, you are the one that should know about harassment!
>
>
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:qjtc4usb2ik373ga2...@4ax.com...
> w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >
> >"Low life" -- "lying" -- "trash" -- "scum" Beautiful words from
> >the mouth of a "pastor". First of all, MR. Winter, you don't know
> >what kind of life I live
>
> You have shown that you endorse and support sin (the sin of
> reprobate Bassett) and you have shown yourself to be
> a spiritually incompetent, spiritual whore.
>
> Isn't it interesting the level of dirt that will support
> reprobate Bassett in his life of sin!
>
> Pastor Winter
Actually Steve, the issue is not whether they support Mr. Bassett. Your
focus is on whether or not they support you. If they fail to support you in
your ongoing conquest with Mr. Bassett, then you label everyone as the above
names which Mr. Ward repeated. You have an inner desire to abuse people.
If this became apparent during your ministerial training, then I can see why
your supporters withdrew. It's obvious that they wouldn't want to be held
accountable for something beyond their control. So they pulled the plug
while they were still able to.
Yes, I agree that all men have sinned and all men have fallen short, but
God is gracious toward us. In your heart, you wish to be a credible
preacher. You will not win people over by publicly abusing them. God gave
Cain a second chance. Why can't you do the same for others?
Cheers,
John
Jim Wardrip
> > is. Isn't it interesting the level of scum that will try
> > to defend Bassett in his sin.
> >
> > At http://www.prime.org/Sewers.html I have been documenting Jim's
> > other spiritual brethren for quite some time.
> >
> > Pastor Winter
For some reason my response to the above didn't post so let me repeat
it. The words; "low life", "lying", "trash", and "scum", sure sound
nice coming from the mouth of this so-called minister. Sure makes me
want to sit under his ministry!
I have never given support for Mark Bassett in any way. Other than by
Usenet and a few emails, I do not know the man. However, he is known
and recognized by the United Pentecostal Church, a international body
that legally licenses and ordains ministers, and by that
regcognization, I can be reasonably sure that Rev. Bassett is exactly
what he claims to be. Mr. Winter, on the other hand, is recognized by
no one. Winter is fortunate that he lives in the United States, as in
several countries he would be arrested, fined or jailed for his claim
to the ministry without credentials.
Concerning the documentation of my spiritual brethren, I see that
there are several web pages devoted to documenting of Mr. Winter's
activities also. Mr. Winter has no spiritual brethren, being an
organization of one. He is so far off the "deep end" that no one in
their right mind would consider fellowship with him.
Mr. Winter accuses me of lying. It is a proven fact that Mr. Winter
is ready to jump on the band wagon of anyone, including Huldah, in
order to take another cheap shot at someone like Mark Bassett or Bro.
Taylor, even if the band is marching to the trinity beat, as it is in
this case.
JW
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>I have never given support for Mark Bassett in any way. Other than by
>Usenet and a few emails, I do not know the man. However, he is known
>and recognized by the United Pentecostal Church, a international body
>that legally licenses and ordains ministers, and by that
>regcognization, I can be reasonably sure that Rev. Bassett is exactly
>what he claims to be. Mr. Winter, on the other hand, is recognized by
>no one. Winter is fortunate that he lives in the United States, as in
>several countries he would be arrested, fined or jailed for his claim
>to the ministry without credentials.
What a lying piece of trash we find in the reprobate Jim Wardrip.
See what the lying scum endorses and supports at
http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Jesus Himself didn't mince words when dealing with falsely
religious scum like Jim Wardrip
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>They probably know of your malicious actions and stupid ways. How can anyone take
>a "dimbulb" {love that word} Village Idiot serious about anything.
It is not surprising that a scum like Robert Taylor would
support the UPCI in their sin.
Mark Bassett
> w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >
> >I have never given support for Mark Bassett in any way. Other than by
> >Usenet and a few emails, I do not know the man. However, he is known
> >and recognized by the United Pentecostal Church, a international body
> >that legally licenses and ordains ministers, and by that
> >regcognization, I can be reasonably sure that Rev. Bassett is exactly
> >what he claims to be. Mr. Winter, on the other hand, is recognized by
> >no one. Winter is fortunate that he lives in the United States, as in
> >several countries he would be arrested, fined or jailed for his claim
> >to the ministry without credentials.
>
> What a lying piece of trash we find in the reprobate Jim Wardrip.
No, Mr. Winter, Jim Wardrip tells the truth when he says that
1) you are recognized by no one
2) you are, in some sense, fortunate that you live in a country in which the
constitution has enabled you to declare yourself a minister, and promote
yourself in that way, without legal reprocussions. For you to have add some
sense of "legality" to your illusion, you merely had to incorporate a legal
entity in North Carolina, with yourself as principle, then use the right of
chartered church organizations to issue license to issue a license to
yourself.
Back where I come from, we call this a scam.
<snip>
> Pastor Winter
It seems to be important to you that you have a little title. Wouldn't it be
more important to be saved from sin, Steve?
Mark Bassett
> "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" <rob...@bellsouth.net> spake thusly
> and wrote:
>
>
> >They probably know of your malicious actions and stupid ways. How can
anyone take
> >a "dimbulb" {love that word} Village Idiot serious about anything.
>
> It is not surprising that a scum like Robert Taylor would
> support the UPCI in their sin.
>
> Pastor Winter
Pastor Winter is
1) No pastor
2) Deficient in reading skills, to continue to accuse, after the subject was
well documented
3) malicious, and
4) consistent in his inability to escape a prejudice, once it has grips on
him (in this case, towards Robert Taylor).
His message is completely without pertinence with respect to the named, or
other subject.
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
Jim is a gentleman and a Christian, Winter. You could learn a lot by trying to be
more like a Christian, than the emp that rules your very being......Repent Ole,
Sinner and be free from you burden of sin!
John Fraser
Jesus himself was highly respected and well thought of by many. He did
not go about picking fights in a show of "one upmanship". You sir, are no
Jesus Christ nor do you emulate him in any moral way. Mr. Wardrip is
correct in that socially, you don't make a blip on the list of churches
radar screen in Durham. Could it be that you're too busy arguing with
people because of your bad attitude?
Cheers,
John
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:509e4uokekt2g8fs0...@4ax.com...
Huldah
wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:33:26 -0600, "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor"
><rob...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>Jim, so you are trash? Well I do declare!......Winters says I am a dimbulb, poor
>>little Joybelle is a s***, Mark Bassett is a r*******, Raymond is a nothing, Jim,
>>well I forgot what he called him, and now you have a title, too!
>>The names the Village Idiot, Rev. of the three pew church, bestows upon us. You
>>know the poor want-to-be preacher has a very limited vocabulary. Nothing but
>>cursing. I note also that he posted a rather shady posts about the arabs in
>>h***. I wonder how his poor cluttered brain ticks.
>>Of course, I am a "dimbulb" with just a little light, but his poor circuit board
>>has totally shorted out! He has gonna have to be completely overhauled with the
>>circuit board renewed before he can ever achieve equality with a dimbulb.
>
>Now you listen here, you dimbulb........!!! I am greatly insulted!!
>:o)
>You forgot poor little old me------- the useless trinity-filth, anon,
>gutless spiritual slut from the sewers of slurp.net---------- and my
>friend, Rod- who is a piece of trash from slurp also!!!!!!!!!!
>Smarten up and get it right, will ya? !!!!! hehehe :o)
Doc, Steve was talking about Jim Wardrip's "brethren." FYI, Robert
Taylor no more considers you as part of that category than does Mr.
Winter. You're no 'sister' of his, anymore than of Mr. Winter's...
>>Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
>^^^^^^^^^^If only he knew how many LAUGHS he's given us........
>
>Doc :o)
>_____________________________________________________
>SMILE ! Only a DENTIST should look down in the mouth!
>_____________________________________________________
---
Huldah
<snip>
>Mr. Winter accuses me of lying. It is a proven fact that Mr. Winter
>is ready to jump on the band wagon of anyone, including Huldah, in
>order to take another cheap shot at someone like Mark Bassett or Bro.
>Taylor, even if the band is marching to the trinity beat, as it is in
>this case.
Is that the reason you're ignoring Doc's applause, because you're
unwilling to dance to a band playing trinity music? What is the
"trinity beat," anyway? Is it 'oom pah pah,' versus the
'Oneness'-preferred 'oom'?
Mark Bassett
"Huldah" <bigfoot...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3c47714b....@news.psouth.net...
And to think that her pet messiah accused ME of trying to stir up division
:-)
Jim Wardrip
< <snip>
>
> Back where I come from, we call this a scam.
>
> <snip>
>
I'd hate to give him ideas, but think of the money Winter could make
if he'd start selling those "minister's license" through the mail or
on the internet! At $15 to $20 a pop and monthly dues, he could retire
and actually find himself the "general overseer" of a large number of
ministers!
John Fraser
"Jim Wardrip" <w8...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:59af69d5.02011...@posting.google.com...
Nah, deja vu. While Mr. Winter enjoys the feeling of power, it would be
rubbing salt in a festering wound for he would defrock anyone who later
opposed him. It was his own dismissal (combined with a few unrelated but
seemingly important incidents) at which he rebelled against and began his
own church. The same could be done to him.
Cheers,
John
Huldah
Goebbels is dead and gone, but his 'Big Lie' technique lives and
flourishes on Usenet; the spirit lives on in Mr. Bassett. Now Peter
of Canada has become *my* "pet messiah." How? Because Bassett,
accustomed to splashing in the shallow end of the pool hollering
personal insults at Mr. Winter, ventured out into the deeper waters of
theological debate and, as ever with his ventures into the deep end,
ended by foundering helplessly. So he began shrieking hysterically
for *me* of all people to come to his rescue, something I have no
intention of doing. His desperate pleas for help falling on deaf
ears, he then began lying up a storm, claiming that I agree with Peter
of Canada's denial of the deity of Christ, his ejection of Paul from
the canon, etc. Most recently Bassett's wounded vanity has gathered
itself up into yet another 'Wizard of Oz' withdrawal from public
scrutiny:
>[Mark Bassett] See, its not likely that we are going to have any "debates", unless God
>tells me otherwise.
No U.S. Cavalry in sight charging to the rescue, he's retreated once
again to his habitual position of safety and comfort: screaming
insults from the sidelines. Meanwhile, he continues to indulge *his*
"pet messiah," Michael Christ. You'd love this guy, Mark; he's a
megalomaniac just like you, always puffing himself up, and he just
loves to insult people. Why, he's 'Oneness,' too! Just like looking
in a mirror, huh? So why do you continue to give your "pet messiah" a
"free ride"?
Bassett daily befouls Usenet with 'Big Lies,' like that Peter of
Canada is my "pet messiah." Yet in spite of watching this
individual's pathological lying day in, day out, his fellow 'Oneness'
cultists are not ashamed nor in any way embarrassed to have him
represent him. Do these people have *any* morals at all?
Huldah
>> Back where I come from, we call this a scam.
>>
>> <snip>
>
>I'd hate to give him ideas, but think of the money Winter could make
>if he'd start selling those "minister's license" through the mail or
>on the internet! At $15 to $20 a pop and monthly dues, he could retire
>and actually find himself the "general overseer" of a large number of
>ministers!
No doubt it would be every bit as lucrative as the scam the UPCI runs,
selling 'minister's licenses' to those who complete a (very brief)
reading list of the cult's propaganda!
Mark Bassett
Simple ... while you rail and slander those who believe in the Absolute
Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, you pander and offer no resistance
whatsoever to those individual who proposes Judaizing Christiandom, and
offers himself as the Messiah, always ready to join hands with someone to
take cheap shots at Apostolics.
Meanwhile, what I said is true. Huldah and Peter accuse me of trying to sow
division, while spewing out little gems like the one above.
I simply point out that, if either was honest, they would be going at each
others throats the way they do with those who shine the light of truth on
them, but she has to jump into conversations that arent hers at all saying
"You know, they don't think you are a Christian" ... as though no one had a
clue, unless she offered a lecture, or a churlish quip on the subject.
Mark Bassett
"<--->" <doc...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:vnig4ugs0bctvfmrq...@4ax.com...
division
> Come on Mark-------- HUMOR!!!!! Use it---- you'll do yourself a world
> of good.
> Are the Taylors' and myself 'not permitted' to have a laugh?
> Sorry--
> That order is denied.
Not YOUR pet messiah. We are talking about the one joined hands with him to
accused me of wanting to stir up division, when I simply asked why such a
great scholar and defender of orthodoxy wouldn't write a "anti-cult" page on
a kookball like that, when she pretends to spend so much time defending
"truth".
Mark Bassett
> On 18 Jan 2002 07:33:53 -0800, w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) wrote:
>
> >> Back where I come from, we call this a scam.
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >
> >I'd hate to give him ideas, but think of the money Winter could make
> >if he'd start selling those "minister's license" through the mail or
> >on the internet! At $15 to $20 a pop and monthly dues, he could retire
> >and actually find himself the "general overseer" of a large number of
> >ministers!
>
> No doubt it would be every bit as lucrative as the scam the UPCI runs,
> selling 'minister's licenses' to those who complete a (very brief)
> reading list of the cult's propaganda!
This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the UPCI. In fact,
ministers licenses are NOT sold, and the fact that a reading list exists on
the website does NOT mean that reading materials on the list are the only
requirements.
Let me explain how it works, so that busy-bodies like Huldah, and others who
lunge at the change to misinform will actually have some knowledge (again).
In the UPCI, only those who are recommended by elders, and who are accepted
by a general board consisting of well established ministers are allowed to
receive the "local license", which is really nothing more than a "workers
license", saying that, after a relatively long, supervised period of
ministry, that person may be considered for evaluation to receive "general
license". This general license is similarly, a temporary "permit". it
differs from the local license, in that the general license holder is not
required to work under direct supervision.
General license applications, and later applications for ordination will be
turned down when, over the period of years, the applicant proves to be of
inadequate Christian character and integrity, have no interest in or
anointing for soul-winning, be financially irresponsible, or morally
faulted, be unable to govern his family or responsibilities, be a railer or
prove his lack of conviction to Biblical principles, be unable to work in
harmony with other ministers in his fellowship, fail to abide in the ethical
principles of his fellowship. Moreover, elders spend considerable time in
personal relationship and looking at the fruit of their ministry.
Regarding reading and educational requirements, the UPCI website lists
minimum requirements requested by the UPCI organization. However, the UPCI
does not issue licenses. Rather, the license and ordination certificates
that are held by men licensed by the UPCI, are issued by local Districts,
which administrate the credentialing at some level, usually well above the
minimum. Each district will vary, much like each pastorate varies, in any
organization, according to the temperment, and ideals held there. Usually, a
District board that reviews and grants credentials has additional
requirements.
I read a number of books apart from the "required reading list" to receive
licenses before my ordination. Among them, to name a few (and I am just
looking to a bookshelf nearby, where I happen to have saved these, and
choosing a few at random), were An Historical Survey of the Old Testament by
Eugene H. Merrill (Merrill is Professor of Old Testament Studies at Dallas
Theological Seminary). I also read several books by A. Erdsheim, including
The Temple, and substantial volumes of Luther, Sprugeon, Finney, and even
Shaff on Eusebius (to mention just a few). These were discussed in my
relationship with mentors during the licensing process.
While some take longer, and a few shorter, the usual period of time between
a new applicant for local license, and their receiving an ordination
certificate is in excess of five years.
In short, the UPCI is the licensing authority, with the representation of
the UPCI General Board on credentials appearing with the signature of the
General Superintendent, and General Secretary, alongside the District
Superintendent, who chairs the board that actually reviews the license
application. In special exceptions, the license application may have to pass
on to
the General board for further consideration.
I must also add that the proposal that materials written by the UPCI are
easily dismissed as "cult propaganda" is one of the most foolhardy and
idiotic statements I have seen. It surely indicates a near complete LACK of
exposure to the material being condemned. Literature by JR Ensey, JR Ensey,
Marvin Treece, etc... is among some of the finest broadsighted biblical
commentary in existence today. It is unfortunate that such shrill and ill
equipped voices as Ms. Lohr do their best to hinder people in need of
Biblical teaching from obtaining such literature
I encourage Ms Lohr to obtain a copy of Treece's Acts I, or Acts II, or I
Corinthians, and read them and then make these statements. The books are
available from Treasure House in Shippensburg, PA. Dr. Treece is one of a
limited number of scholars who was permitted regular access to the Dead Sea
Scrolls, and is among the few with a reasonable knowledge of Sumerian, has
done extensive paleographical research on several continents, and has been a
UPCI pastor in Lake Charles, LA for over 33 years.
During the time that one is working to qualify for ordination in the UPCI,
he is, of course, paying dues of some $300/year, meaning that, the simple
licensing up until ordination is going to cost probably in excess of $1500,
which is a very trivial sum in comparison
Compare this to the whole realm of ministerial licenses obtained from
"licensing agencies" offered in the internet, such as Rev. Mike <name
omitted>, familiar to the newsgroup readers, held (up until the time that he
got upset and quit a year or more ago, that is the UCMI. Look here to obtain
ordination: http://www.ucmi.org/ucmi/ordination.htm. Of course, the
ordination is free, and immediate, but the documents will cost between $25
for a nice certificate, and $10 for a laminated card for your wallet.
No one questions those that come around saying that they are "Reverends" and
"pastors" and "ministers", etc etc, who hold these cereal box credentials.
What a NERVE Huldah has to lie about us! If she wants to say that
Pentecostal preachers operate, like Peter and James and John, without the
culture's version of a religious education, then fine - but I do wonder why
she finds it necessary to outright LIE about the matter.
Saying that one must merely read some cult materials to "buy a license" is a
grotesque and total lie.
At the same time, consider the description of the faculty at the United
Church of Christ Seminary in Chicago, when you consider the "education" that
is supposedly acceptable in the minds of those who easily fall for such
slander as Huldah likes to slop around the internet. While reviewing
http://www.chgosem.edu/faculty.html, pay careful attention to the
qualifications of faculty members of which the following is typical.
"Professor <deleted> is an ordained elder in the New York Annual Conference
of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church. From 1988 until June 1995,
she was the assistant pastor of the Mount Hope AME Zion Church in White
Plains, New York. She also served as secretary of the Annual Conference
Board of Examiners and as District Director of Conference Studies (Hudson
River District). While at Union, she was a teaching assistant, a research
assistant, an instructor of conversational English and a visiting lecturer
at Rollins College.
Her sacred texts include the Bible, Tao te Ching, Bhagavad Gita and the
Qur'an. Her favorite authors are Toni Morrison, Zora Neale Hurston, James
Baldwin, Antoine de Ste. Exupery and her most influential theologians are
St. Augustine, Reinhold Niebuhr, Malcolm X, Delores Williams, James Cone,
Katie Cannon and Christopher Morse.
Most astonishing discovery: "Religious knowledge is really borrowed wisdom
and involves a process of relating or rejecting this idea or that, and
typically betrays its investment in the social, economic and political lot
of the people. Apart from this, it is a much more multicultural project than
is often expressly acknowledged! Yet this is how we got the Bible and the
Qur'an, through cultural bartering. This is why many Africans and Europeans,
Latin Americans and some few Asians claim, however selectively, the
Judeo-Christian story as our own. This is evidence of a human quest to find
not the meaning of life, but more and more meaning in life."
Why I do what I do: "I strive to maintain connection between the Academy and
the Church, primarily by bringing to bear critical reflection on my
experiences in both places, questioning the relevance of each enterprise for
people and their complicity in maintaining systems of oppression.
Nevertheless, in the tradition of "faith in search of understanding" I am
very much for the Church, and celebrate it as an extension of Jesus" story,
a story which has power to transform our individual and communal lives. My
scholarly and "preacherly" vocation is to bring insight from many, many
sources to bear on the way I "do" theology. Thus I appreciate other peoples"
apprehensions of God as they, too, struggle to live in just societies and in
spiritual communion."
What I like about CTS: "The difficulty of maintaining a self-consciously
confessional stand within the halls of critical inquiry is overcome in the
forthright way CTS conceives its mission and organizes its degree programs
and other educational forums. My role as a teacher of ethics and theology is
a way of honoring the activist spirit that characterizes my own commitments
and the seminary's."
Thats the kind of "education" that Huldah wants people to receive, in order
to avoid her mocking and slurs. She wants them to go to "seminary" :-) LOL!
The LAST place that a Christian wants to be nowadays is in most of these
so-called "seminaries".
Mark Bassett
"John Fraser" <jfr...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:f%X18.22$KG3....@sapphire.mtt.net...
Correcting the misinformation Winter was never "dismissed", and was never
"ministry". He just quit.
Also John, I read elsewhere where you said that I had left a career to
become a minister. Unfortunately, that is not yet true. I still need to work
to support my family, and like many bi-vocational ministers, am happy to
report that the Lord gives strength to do what we must, when we seek to do
the will of God.
Jim Wardrip
What is the
> "trinity beat," anyway? Is it 'oom pah pah,' versus the
> 'Oneness'-preferred 'oom'?
>
> ---
> Huldah
Actually, you're quite correct. Always be sure to get all three beats
in or one of your gods become jealous!
JW
John Fraser
Thanks for the info. I thought you were a full time pastor and I
apologize for the oversight. My mistake. And yes, Mr. Winter did quit his
former church.
Cheers,
John
"Mark Bassett" <mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote in message
news:6AZ18.7003$8P3.1...@news02.optonline.net...
Jim Wardrip
> No doubt it would be every bit as lucrative as the scam the UPCI runs,
> selling 'minister's licenses' to those who complete a (very brief)
> reading list of the cult's propaganda!
>
You are ignorant of the way the UPCI licenses it's ministers. No
license in the UPCI is for sale. A person must be proven fit for the
ministry, in life, as well as education, plus have the recommendation
of his local pastor - something not easily obtained unless you
actually live up to what you say you are. In fact, I think you'll
find that most all Apostolic organizations require much more than an
applicant with a few dollars in hand, unlike a lot of trinity
churches.
JW
Huldah
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:47:36 GMT, "Mark Bassett"
><mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>>> > And to think that her pet messiah accused ME of trying to stir up
>>> > division
>>> My 'pet messiah'???
>>> Come on Mark-------- HUMOR!!!!! Use it---- you'll do yourself a world
>>> of good.
>>> Are the Taylors' and myself 'not permitted' to have a laugh?
>>> Sorry--
>>> That order is denied.
>>
>>Not YOUR pet messiah. We are talking about the one joined hands with him to
>>accused me of wanting to stir up division, when I simply asked why such a
>>great scholar and defender of orthodoxy wouldn't write a "anti-cult" page on
>>a kookball like that, when she pretends to spend so much time defending
>>"truth".
OK, so *now* I get it - anybody who does not rate their own page on my
web-site, I'm 'joining hands' with! Bassett's latest cult favorite,
Herbert W. Armstrong, Mary Baker Eddy, and Sun Myung Moon, hop right
aboard. The list of people I've 'joined hands' with is quite long, as
there are many who do not have their own pages on my web site.
>Thanks-- I wondered- when the header indicated you were replying to
>me-------
>sheesh!!!!!
>Doc :O)
>
>_____________________________________________________
>SMILE ! Only a DENTIST should look down in the mouth!
>_____________________________________________________
---
Huldah
The Bible versus the 'Oneness' Pentecostals:
Mark Bassett
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:19:27 -0600, "<--->" <doc...@eudoramail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:47:36 GMT, "Mark Bassett"
> ><mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >>> > And to think that her pet messiah accused ME of trying to stir up
> >>> > division
>
> >>> My 'pet messiah'???
> >>> Come on Mark-------- HUMOR!!!!! Use it---- you'll do yourself a world
> >>> of good.
> >>> Are the Taylors' and myself 'not permitted' to have a laugh?
> >>> Sorry--
> >>> That order is denied.
> >>
> >>Not YOUR pet messiah. We are talking about the one joined hands with him
to
> >>accused me of wanting to stir up division, when I simply asked why such
a
> >>great scholar and defender of orthodoxy wouldn't write a "anti-cult"
page on
> >>a kookball like that, when she pretends to spend so much time defending
> >>"truth".
>
> OK, so *now* I get it - anybody who does not rate their own page on my
> web-site, I'm 'joining hands' with! Bassett's latest cult favorite,
> Herbert W. Armstrong, Mary Baker Eddy, and Sun Myung Moon, hop right
> aboard.
Your advocacy of even trinitarian Christian is completely without
credibility any longer.
Mark Bassett
It is obvious that she isn't the slightest bit intrested in anything that
lessens the effect of her patent propanada, whatever flavor it happens to
come in today.
Mark Bassett
So what are you waiting for? After all, you have the answers.
As you explained the fruitbars and kooks get a nod of approval from you,
when they are civil. We apply Mr Winter's requirement of harmony and we
find that, you don;t bug them if they don't argue with you and say that YOU
are wrong. Birds of a feather, as always.
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>You are ignorant of the way the UPCI licenses it's ministers. No
>license in the UPCI is for sale. A person must be proven fit for the
>ministry, in life,
You're a liar, Jim, and Bassett's UPC license proves it.
Go crawl back into the sewer.
Mike Bugal
> Compare this to the whole realm of ministerial licenses obtained from
> "licensing agencies" offered in the internet, such as Rev. Mike <name
> omitted>, familiar to the newsgroup readers, held (up until the time that he
> got upset and quit a year or more ago, that is the UCMI. Look here to obtain
> ordination: http://www.ucmi.org/ucmi/ordination.htm. Of course, the
> ordination is free, and immediate, but the documents will cost between $25
> for a nice certificate, and $10 for a laminated card for your wallet.
Mr. Bassett's version of "reality" and reality are once again two
different things. Unfortunately for him, this is a regular occurence.
The fact of the matter is that a couple of the Oneness Pentecostals in
this very newsgroup decided to try to silence me and contacted the
UCMI (through whom I was licensed strictly for the purposes of legally
being able to perform marriages in the State of Missouri. Any HONEST
person who checks them out will find that there really is NO other
purpose to their existence)saying that I was "attacking
Pentecostals"... as in TRINITARIAN Charismatics/Pentecostals. I had
several exchanges with the person at UCMI who does their licencsing,
couldn't seem to get the man to understand the difference between
Christianity and the kingdom of the cults and upon further
investigation found that the UCMI licensed Oneness Pentecostals (such
as Donnie Hayes, one of my false witness bearers). At that point I
then wrote the following letter to the UCMI, which I publicly posted
in this very newsgroup:
http://www.heartlandchapel.org/Archives/cults/compromise.htm
Unlike Mr. Bassett, I have never tried to hide anything nor been
anything but straightforward in this newsgroup and on our website. I
say what I mean and don't try to couch my words in such a way as to
later be able to deny that I said any such thing. Mr. Bassett speaks
about the UPCI's Ordination process and of their "character"
requirements. I have never considered "liar" to be a positive
character trait (nor a Fruit of the Spirit)... but given the
experience of the Christians in this newsgroup with the adherents, and
specifically the clergy, of the UPCI obviously THEY do!
> No one questions those that come around saying that they are "Reverends" and
> "pastors" and "ministers", etc etc, who hold these cereal box credentials.
Anyone with more than 30 seconds experience in Usenet newsgroups
recognizes this as yet another distortion of the truth. The fact of
the matter is that, both here and on our website, I have always told
people to NOT accept on face value alone what ANYONE says no matter
what "title" they wear nor what degree they possess. Any HONEST person
who reads our site or the history of my posting here over the last 6
years knows that I teach people to be "Bereans". Case in point is that
the only reason that Mr. Bassett and his OP brethren take these cheap
shots at me is that I have consistently and accurately withstood their
odd doctrines from the sure Word of God here and on our site during
that time. So, just WHO is it that doesn't like to be challenged?
That having been said, I must also challenge Fredericka on her facts.
While it is true that the UPCI website only shows lists of reading
material under a link called "Ordination Requirements" (if I remember
the name of the link correctly... it's been some time since I've been
there), it is highly unlikely that an organization the size of the
UPCI is going to only have that as requirements. And I have seen
nothing there to warrant any reference to someone "buying a license".
Perhaps she has a link to such information?
So, an adherent of Liberalism (both politically and theologically) is
to be held up as an example of ALL Christians and her beliefs to be
typical of ALL Christian seminaries and Bible Colleges?? Once again,
the honest of Mr. Bassett shines through! Allow me to impinge a little
reality upon Mr. Bassett's fantasy. While there is a professor or two
who are liberal even in schools whose Statement of Beliefs are
decidedly Conservative and Evangelical the vast majority are not so
and are undeserving of Mr. Bassett's attempt to libel them in this
way. In addition, at no point does anyone see Fredericka say that she
wants anyone educated in this liberal theology that Mr. Bassett would
like you to believe represents all seminaries.
Now, let's do a little "compare and contrast" exercise here. Mr.
Bassett has listed what is required for ordination in the UPCI. This
included reading material which comes from only one standpoint...
Oneness Pentecostal... except in subjects not bearing on theology and
doctrine. There are no books which challenge OP doctrine. The only
representation of opposing viewpoints are the distortions of those
views which their writers present as "strawmen" to knock down in
support of OP theology. The student is supervised each step along the
way to make sure that he never honestly examines their doctrines. On
the other hand....
The school which I am attending is run by the Christian Church
(Disciples of Christ). They are part of what is called the
"Restoration Movement". One of the courses that I am taking right now
is called "Restoration History" and one of the very first readings I
did in that course was a review of a book written by a Restoration
theologian. The review was written by a non-Restoration person and
examined critically the doctrines and beliefs held by the NACC and the
COC. In short, both sides are presented to the student and he/she is
allowed to examine the facts and evidence and make up their OWN mind.
The students are encouraged to be "Bereans" and to examine both their
own convictions and the doctrines of the Restoration Movement in the
light of God's Word. No such "freedom of thought" exists within the
UPCI... for they know full well what the result would be. Thus, their
representatives such as Mr. Bassett degrade, decry and libel
institutions of sound doctrine and attempt to paint them with the same
brush as those holding liberal theology. It's called FEAR!
In Christ,
Mike Bugal
Founder, Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org/
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
them to stay in the "Winternite Organization of the World".....I don't think
there is enough money for decent people to sell their soul!
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:kmuh4uog5up3bg47e...@4ax.com...
> w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >
> >You are ignorant of the way the UPCI licenses it's ministers. No
> >license in the UPCI is for sale. A person must be proven fit for the
> >ministry, in life,
>
> You're a liar, Jim, and Bassett's UPC license proves it.
>
> Go crawl back into the sewer.
>
> Pastor Winter
It's rather notable that while Mr. Bassett is happy to provide
information about his endorsed ordination, you have been rather silent about
your own qualifications to lead your church. And I'm sure that every
opportunity you exploit to slander the man will win him over to your cause.
NOT!!!!! But then, you're only interested in souls you like.
Cheers,
John
Mark Bassett
"Mike Bugal" <heartla...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:e56473f6.02011...@posting.google.com...
Mike opens his letter with the compulsory fruit of the spirit that he
prefers: calling me and others a liar, as a result of not reading my post
properly, and moreover, being upset about being used as an example.
> > No one questions those that come around saying that they are "Reverends"
and
> > "pastors" and "ministers", etc etc, who hold these cereal box
credentials.
>
> Anyone with more than 30 seconds experience in Usenet newsgroups
> recognizes this as yet another distortion of the truth. The fact of
> the matter is that, both here and on our website, I have always told
> people to NOT accept on face value alone what ANYONE says no matter
> what "title" they wear nor what degree they possess. Any HONEST person
> who reads our site or the history of my posting here over the last 6
> years knows that I teach people to be "Bereans". Case in point is that
> the only reason that Mr. Bassett and his OP brethren take these cheap
> shots at me is that I have consistently and accurately withstood their
> odd doctrines from the sure Word of God here and on our site during
> that time. So, just WHO is it that doesn't like to be challenged?
Perhaps you missed the whole point. Fredericka Lohr wrote:
> No doubt it would be every bit as lucrative as the scam the UPCI runs,
> selling 'minister's licenses' to those who complete a (very brief)
> reading list of the cult's propaganda
The UPCI does not "sell minister's licences". I used your previous licensing
with the UCMI as an example, Mike, of licensing that IS sold that no one
questioned. My one and only point is that it is quite prejudiced and
unbalanced to make the statements that Ms Lohr did.
> That having been said, I must also challenge Fredericka on her facts.
> While it is true that the UPCI website only shows lists of reading
> material under a link called "Ordination Requirements" (if I remember
> the name of the link correctly... it's been some time since I've been
> there), it is highly unlikely that an organization the size of the
> UPCI is going to only have that as requirements. And I have seen
> nothing there to warrant any reference to someone "buying a license".
> Perhaps she has a link to such information?
No, she does not. Neither will she ever answer this reasonably, and fairly
as a "beraean".
No sir, obviously one post and one resume' could not and is not intented to
suffice as a representation of all seminaries. However, I will say two
things on top of this. I believe that MOST seminaries are extraoridnarilly
liberal, to the point of shocking even most liberal adherants to the norm of
Christendom in the USA, if they were to see the whole. That is my opinion.
The second point is not my opinion, and it is the reason that I posted the
last blurb: I have never seen ANYONE criticize ANYONE'S genuine credentials
here in this newsgroup (other than myself in response to having been
criticized), EXCEPT for the CONSTANT misrepresentation of UPCI credentials
by detractors.
> Once again,
> the honest of Mr. Bassett shines through!
No Mike, you misread, once again.
> Allow me to impinge a little reality upon Mr. Bassett's fantasy. While
there is a professor or two
> who are liberal even in schools whose Statement of Beliefs are
> decidedly Conservative and Evangelical the vast majority are not so
> and are undeserving of Mr. Bassett's attempt to libel them in this
> way.
ROTFL! Your proportions are hugely skewed the other way and most people who
have had experience and knowledge with the seminaries of long standing will
say that in a moment, Mike
> In addition, at no point does anyone see Fredericka say that she
> wants anyone educated in this liberal theology that Mr. Bassett would
> like you to believe represents all seminaries.
Ms Lohr does not make constructive comments in general, so this is not
pertinent.
> Now, let's do a little "compare and contrast" exercise here. Mr.
> Bassett has listed what is required for ordination in the UPCI. This
> included reading material which comes from only one standpoint...
> Oneness Pentecostal... except in subjects not bearing on theology and
> doctrine. There are no books which challenge OP doctrine.
Mike, I hate to break it to you, but no Seminary requires reading of
material that challenges its view.
> The only representation of opposing viewpoints are the distortions of
those
> views which their writers present as "strawmen" to knock down in
> support of OP theology.
That is your mindset, but not a fact.
> The student is supervised each step along the
> way to make sure that he never honestly examines their doctrines. On
> the other hand....
>
> The school which I am attending is run by the Christian Church
> (Disciples of Christ). They are part of what is called the
> "Restoration Movement". One of the courses that I am taking right now
> is called "Restoration History" and one of the very first readings I
> did in that course was a review of a book written by a Restoration
> theologian. The review was written by a non-Restoration person and
> examined critically the doctrines and beliefs held by the NACC and the
> COC.
Thats wonderful Mike. Is there a point?
> In short, both sides are presented to the student and he/she is
> allowed to examine the facts and evidence and make up their OWN mind.
In fact, this is not something that a school has to accomplish. Every
individual coming out of the world has access to information, such as you
do. You did not need the UCC or other organization to go and find a book
that opposes its views and put it in your hands for you to read.
Most people attend a school because they have selected to study a particular
view, and the school specializes in it. Your prosition that the "school of
prophets", under Elijah, taught Baal worship to be healthy, is silly.
> The students are encouraged to be "Bereans" and to examine both their
> own convictions and the doctrines of the Restoration Movement in the
> light of God's Word. No such "freedom of thought" exists within the
> UPCI...
You say things that you know nothing of. Your statement is very far from the
truth.
> for they know full well what the result would be.
This is something that you are required to say, because you are a detractor.
Mike's proposal, for all who cannot follow him, is that there is a loose
ministry fellowship called that UPCI that prohibits its members from going
to a library, from buying books at a bookstore, from hearing the radio, from
reading the Bible (in his twisted imagination), and accomplishes this by
.... well, how exactly DOES the UPCI do this Mike? Perhaps it has a
requirement that all applicants must have an IQ lower than 50. I don't know
... you tell us, after you and the other "berean bear" get in a huddle and
put one together.
> Thus, their representatives such as Mr. Bassett degrade, decry and libel
> institutions of sound doctrine and attempt to paint them with the same
> brush as those holding liberal theology. It's called FEAR!
LOL! I am the least of voices to decry the world of seminary education as
hopelessly liberal. Please notice that NO WHERE did I say that every
seminary is liberal. I simply pointed out that, with a degree from from a
school that taught "holy texts" such as the "gita", a so-called Chrsitian
minister's creditials would not be questioned around a.r.c.p, in the present
paradigm.
Jim Wardrip
> You're a liar, Jim, and Bassett's UPC license proves it.
>
> Go crawl back into the sewer.
>
> Pastor Winter
Mark Bassett's UPC license is real, as is mine with the organization I
belong to. Your's is not. You have not proved yourself qualified for
a license with the UPC or any other Apostolic body. Anyone reading
these posts fully knows who the real liar is. The "father" of liars
must be real proud of you.
JW
Huldah
<mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> >>Not YOUR pet messiah. We are talking about the one joined hands with him
>> >>to
>> >>accused me of wanting to stir up division, when I simply asked why such
>> >>a
>> >>great scholar and defender of orthodoxy wouldn't write a "anti-cult"
>> >>page on
>> >>a kookball like that, when she pretends to spend so much time defending
>> >>"truth".
>>
>> OK, so *now* I get it - anybody who does not rate their own page on my
>> web-site, I'm 'joining hands' with! Bassett's latest cult favorite,
>> Herbert W. Armstrong, Mary Baker Eddy, and Sun Myung Moon, hop right
>> aboard. The list of people I've 'joined hands' with is quite long, as
>> there are many who do not have their own pages on my web site.
>
>So what are you waiting for? After all, you have the answers.
>
>As you explained the fruitbars and kooks get a nod of approval from you,
>when they are civil. We apply Mr Winter's requirement of harmony and we
>find that, you don;t bug them if they don't argue with you and say that YOU
>are wrong. Birds of a feather, as always.
Uh-oh, Mark's gone back to being a "we", always a bad sign. Please
realize in advance, Mark, that when a Mary Baker Eddy fan hammers you
to the floor, your piteous wails for help will go unheeded. I'm not
operating a rescue mission for the losers in life. BTW, why don't you
find a hobby that you're *good* at?- maybe whittling, or something...
Huldah
<mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>> >> Back where I come from, we call this a scam.
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >
>> >I'd hate to give him ideas, but think of the money Winter could make
>> >if he'd start selling those "minister's license" through the mail or
>> >on the internet! At $15 to $20 a pop and monthly dues, he could retire
>> >and actually find himself the "general overseer" of a large number of
>> >ministers!
>>
>> No doubt it would be every bit as lucrative as the scam the UPCI runs,
>> selling 'minister's licenses' to those who complete a (very brief)
>> reading list of the cult's propaganda!
>
>This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the UPCI. In fact,
>ministers licenses are NOT sold, and the fact that a reading list exists on
>the website does NOT mean that reading materials on the list are the only
>requirements.
It might surprise you to learn that some Christian denominations
actually expect a ministerial candidate to have attended seminary, or
to have some comparable educational experience. That is not true, of
course, of the UPCI, which is how Mr. Bassett comes to favor us with
his theological brilliance, founded upon a total lack of any formal
education whatsoever. Here are the reading requirements:
--- begin quote from UPCI web-site ---
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ordination is the final phase of the licensing process. All ordained
ministers enjoy the privileges of...
A subscription to the Pentecostal Herald
A subscription to the Forward Magazine
Life insurance package
Perform funeral ceremonies
Perform wedding ceremonies
Perform practically all duties and responsibilities of the ministry
The possibility of holding office
Each applicant must read the following:
The complete Bible since receiving a general license
One book from each of the categories listed below
Doctrines of the Bible (edited by J.L. Hall and David Bernard
(0932581714) $9.99
Any additional material required by the District Board
These items may be ordered at our secure Pentecostal Online Services.
Categories
Order #
Price
Author(s)
I. The Bible
A. The Bible
II. Study of the Bible
A. God's Infallible Word
1567220010
$8.99
David Bernard
B. Bible-Its Origin and Use, The
1567220517
$5.99
W.A.P. Elective Series
III. Church History
A. Trinitarian Controversy, The
1567220096
$5.99
David Bernard
B. History of the Christian Doctrine, Vol. 2
1567221874
$9.99
David Bernard
C. History of the Christian Doctrine, Vol. 3
1567222218
$10.99
David Bernard
D. Our God Is One
70-1-88825- 120-4
$24.95
Talmudge French
IV. Doctrinal Studies
A. Literal Word: 1 Corinthians, The
1560438444
$30.00
M.D. Treece
B. Pastoral Epistles, The
0932581692
$8.99
J.R. Ensey
C. In the Name of Jesus
0932581951
$5.99
David Bernard
D. Symposium on Oneness Pentecostals 1986
093258103X
$6.95
U.P.C.I.
E. Hebrews: Better Things, Vol. 1
1567221890
$8.99
Daniel Seagraves
F. Hebrews: Better Things, Vol. 2
1567221882
$8.99
Daniel Seagraves
G. Symposium on Oneness Pentecostals 1988 & 1990
0932581722
$8.99
U.P.C.I.
Sale $4.99
V. Theology
A. Themes From a Letter to Rome
156722136X
$9.99
Daniel Seagraves
B. Oneness and Trinity
0932581811
$7.99
David Bernard
C. Bible Doctrines-Foundation of the Church
1567220509
$5.99
W.A.P. Elective Series
D. John, the Gospel that Had to Be Written
1567220371
$9.99
Fred Kinzie
VI. The Ministry
A. How to Prepare Sermons
0802437257
$16.99
William Evans
B. Dear Pastor: If the Sheep Could Speak
9076111627
$6.95
Raph Reynolds
C. Biblical Preaching
0801077001
$17.99
Haddon Robinson
VII. Church Growth
A. Let My People Grow!
0932581412
$8.99
Tim Massengale
B. The Purpose Driven Church
Rick Warren
------------------------------------------------------------------
--- end quote from UPCI web-site ---
http://www.upci.net/ordination.htm
It seems to me that a ministerial license founded upon the Herculean
labor of having read *nine* (count 'em, nine) books is not worth the
paper it's printed on. If those whose claim to fame rests upon being
in receipt of such a 'licence' wish to pretend such a 'license' is of
value, they should not prolong their efforts to the point of making
the rest of us laugh.
>Let me explain how it works, so that busy-bodies like Huldah, and others who
>lunge at the change to misinform will actually have some knowledge (again).
>
>In the UPCI, only those who are recommended by elders, and who are accepted
>by a general board consisting of well established ministers are allowed to
>receive the "local license", which is really nothing more than a "workers
>license", saying that, after a relatively long, supervised period of
>ministry, that person may be considered for evaluation to receive "general
>license". This general license is similarly, a temporary "permit". it
>differs from the local license, in that the general license holder is not
>required to work under direct supervision.
>
>General license applications, and later applications for ordination will be
>turned down when, over the period of years, the applicant proves to be of
>inadequate Christian character and integrity, have no interest in or
>anointing for soul-winning, be financially irresponsible, or morally
>faulted,
Since a habit of pathological lying is no detriment to being a UPCI
minister in good standing - observe present company - then these
purported moral concerns are patently bogus.
>be unable to govern his family or responsibilities, be a railer or
>prove his lack of conviction to Biblical principles, be unable to work in
>harmony with other ministers in his fellowship, fail to abide in the ethical
>principles of his fellowship. Moreover, elders spend considerable time in
>personal relationship and looking at the fruit of their ministry.
>
>Regarding reading and educational requirements, the UPCI website lists
>minimum requirements requested by the UPCI organization. However, the UPCI
>does not issue licenses. Rather, the license and ordination certificates
>that are held by men licensed by the UPCI, are issued by local Districts,
>which administrate the credentialing at some level, usually well above the
>minimum. Each district will vary, much like each pastorate varies, in any
>organization, according to the temperment, and ideals held there. Usually, a
>District board that reviews and grants credentials has additional
>requirements.
>
>I read a number of books apart from the "required reading list" to receive
>licenses before my ordination.
Oh my, Bassett's actually read books! Who would have thunk it!
See what I mean? This pathological liar is considered morally fit
for the 'ministry' by the UPCI. If *he's* morally fit, who would not
be? Read nine books, pay the fee, and you're in!
>The LAST place that a Christian wants to be nowadays is in most of these
>so-called "seminaries".
---
Huldah
The Bible versus the 'Oneness' Pentecostals:
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
That woman has the weirdest ideas............
Hulda, most of the Oneness Christians on these groups are Minister themselves and the rest of us have Pastors. Although there is respect for Bro. Mark Bassett ( especially for his tolerance with the Village Idiot of North Carolina) he, no way, represents me. I did not support him with anything, except prayer and respect as a fellow Christian.
Robert D. Taylor
Pastor Steve Winter
>Mark Bassett's UPC license is real, as is mine with the organization I
>belong to. Your's is not.
What lying scum we find in filth like Jim Wardrip!
The UPCI will license women to preach. They will knowing
allow men to live in sin and still preach. They will knowingly
allow divorced and remarried men to preach (and NOT just
reprobate Bassett).
Here we see a scum that is so pride engorged an pompous
that he believes that he is omnipresent. These filth
have know real personal knowledge of me, but they care
not for facts but only spew their ignorance.
Scum like Jim Wardrip are irresponsible about what they publish.
What organization are you a part of scum? I wonder if they
will join you in your endorsement of reprobate Bassett and
his sin.
See what the lying dirt Jim Wardrip knowingly endorses
and supports at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
I have nothing but contempt for dirt like Jim Wardrip who
act like they have some inside knowledge regarding me, but
don't even know me. But the dirt just parrot other lies
and gossip that they hear from other backbiting scum.
Pastor Steve Winter
>Mark Bassett's UPC license is real, as is mine with the organization I
>belong to. Your's is not.
See my reply as:
"Irresponsible, lying, false-christian dirt like Jim Wardrip"
See what Jim knowingly supports at
http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Which organization was loose enough to license you, Wardrip?
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>I don't think
>there is enough money for decent people to sell their soul!
But the ignorant dimbulb Robert D. Taylor sold his soul
for the approval of the reprobate Mark Bassett!
You reprobate scum would be funny in your hypocrisy were
you not now so malicious.
See folks, the weak minded Taylors, spiritual dimbulbs, decided
to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark Bassett).
But look at how quickly they have joined him in sin!
WARNING!! You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end
up as some religious scum like the Taylors!
See what the sinful, lukewarm spiritual filth, the Taylors
condone and support at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Those reprobate spiritual filth do not represent "Oneness"
except to testify to the backslidden and pride engorged
condition of some in UPCI leadership.
The Taylors have joined the handful of dimbulbs who threw
away their integrity, honor, and salvation to support the
reprobate Mark Bassett in his life of unrepentant sin.
Let any real Christians join with me in prayer that
the Taylors would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him.
Pastor Steve Winter
>
>This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the UPCI. In fact,
>ministers licenses are NOT sold, and the fact that a reading list exists on
>the website does NOT mean that reading materials on the list are the only
They licensed you, Bassett, in brazen defiance to the Word
of God because of your divorce and remarriage.
Your subsequent descent into sin dwarfs that now.
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:nqlj4u8dcgd2t3vit...@4ax.com...
> "Mark Bassett" <mbasset@not_optonline.net> spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >
> >This is a complete and total misrepresentation of the UPCI. In fact,
> >ministers licenses are NOT sold, and the fact that a reading list exists
on
> >the website does NOT mean that reading materials on the list are the only
>
> They licensed you, Bassett, in brazen defiance to the Word
> of God because of your divorce and remarriage.
More correctly, they didn't license you.
>
> Your subsequent descent into sin dwarfs that now.
And you have demonstrated your anguish ever since by trying to bully
those who feel you're not worth their time.
>
> Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
Mark Bassett
"Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" <rob...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:3C49D19F...@bellsouth.net...
Bro. Mark.....do you represent the Oneness Christians on this group?
That woman has the weirdest ideas............
Hulda, most of the Oneness Christians on these groups are Minister themselves and the rest of us have Pastors. Although there is respect for Bro. Mark Bassett ( especially for his tolerance with the Village Idiot of North Carolina) he, no way, represents me. I did not support him with anything, except prayer and respect as a fellow Christian.
Robert D. Taylor
Nope... I don't represent Oneness Pentecostals in this group... But I am completely sick of this slanderer and former psedo-intellectual continually lying about everyone that she cannot deep-six with her store-bought theological hammer.
Mark Bassett
> It seems to me that a ministerial license founded upon the Herculean
> labor of having read *nine* (count 'em, nine) books is not worth the
> paper it's printed on. If those whose claim to fame rests upon being
> in receipt of such a 'licence' wish to pretend such a 'license' is of
> value, they should not prolong their efforts to the point of making
> the rest of us laugh.
You must be completely without reading skills. THe list is a MINIMUM
prescribed by the licensing authority. In addition to that, there are main
requirements given by the individual district boards, since they are the
ones who actually recommend the individual being licensed.
Beyond that I explained considerably more, which you completely ignored in
favor of your usual distortions, obviously because you have the character
flaw of being unable to admit that you are wrong.
Mark Bassett
> See what I mean? This pathological liar is considered morally fit
> for the 'ministry' by the UPCI. If *he's* morally fit, who would not
> be? Read nine books, pay the fee, and you're in!
Same lie, repeated over and over ... gonna hit *someone*....
Right? Thats the devil's work Fredericka, and you are his shining example of
diligence.
Mark Bassett
You demontrate that you need basic English again Fredericka. Earlier you
were trying to prove that "the word of the Lord came to ..." had to refer to
two persons. Now you are propsing that the use of the collective voice "i.e.
"If we suppose ... " is indication of some psychosis.
If you want psychosis, go no further than your little friend Peter, and look
in the mirror to see where your imaginary support of Christianity stands
when the summary of your commentary to Christ denying false messiahs is
compared to the time you ahve spent railing and lying about worshippers of
Jesus Christ.
Mark Bassett
> w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) spake thusly and wrote:
> I have nothing but contempt for dirt like Jim Wardrip who
> act like they have some inside knowledge regarding me, but
> don't even know me. But the dirt just parrot other lies
> and gossip that they hear from other backbiting scum.
My land, this genius publishes his defamations and cantations all over the
world for TEN YEARS, wins the reputation of one of the worlds kookiest
religious nuts, and then says they "dont even know me".
Oh please... you have left your dung-coated work-boot imprint just about
everywhere. Lots of people know LOTs about you, and you HAVE been the
subject of considerable investigation as a result of your constant libel,
junior.
Pastor Steve Winter
>> They licensed you, Bassett, in brazen defiance to the Word
>> of God because of your divorce and remarriage.
>
> More correctly, they didn't license you.
I never applied for or desired license with the UPCI, devil.
Just look at the level of net scum that will rise up
to try to defend Bassett in his sin and lying!
In case you are inclined to consider Mr. Fraser in any way
honest or sincere, see http://www.impsmail.org/fraser.html
He is a malicious little troll grasping at straws in a
desperate attempt to try to appear to "be somebody" at
someone else's expense.
Pastor sTeve Winter
Pastor Steve Winter
>> I have nothing but contempt for dirt like Jim Wardrip who
>> act like they have some inside knowledge regarding me, but
>> don't even know me. But the dirt just parrot other lies
>> and gossip that they hear from other backbiting scum.
>
>My land, this genius publishes his defamations and cantations all over the
>world for TEN YEARS, wins the reputation of one of the worlds kookiest
>religious nuts, and then says they "dont even know me".
A handful of scum including reprobate Bassett have engaged
in civil conspiracies of various types to damage me, my reputation,
my ministry, and my business, but it is really just a handful of
spiritual scum spreading lies and other dirt repeating what they
"heard".
On the other hand, I have documented harassment, lying and
even criminal activity by reprobate Bassett at
http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
See the difference?
Ignorant dirt like Jim Wardrip are just repeating hearsay in
an effort to try to appear to "be somebody" at someone else's
expense.
Let any real Christians join with me in prayer that
the Taylors would be the last that reprobate Bassett
deceives into hell with him.
Pastor Winter
Mark Bassett
> "Mark Bassett" <mbasset@not_optonline.net> spake thusly and wrote:
>
>
> >> I have nothing but contempt for dirt like Jim Wardrip who
> >> act like they have some inside knowledge regarding me, but
> >> don't even know me. But the dirt just parrot other lies
> >> and gossip that they hear from other backbiting scum.
> >
> >My land, this genius publishes his defamations and cantations all over
the
> >world for TEN YEARS, wins the reputation of one of the worlds kookiest
> >religious nuts, and then says they "dont even know me".
>
> A handful of scum including reprobate Bassett have engaged
> in civil conspiracies of various types to damage me, my reputation,
> my ministry, and my business, but it is really just a handful of
> spiritual scum spreading lies and other dirt repeating what they
> "heard".
LOL! Anyone can get all the information they want about you, sonny... from
people who know what you are all about first hand.
Keep boosting your ego. You aren't a preacher, and aren't even a Chrisitian,
in spite of the show. You are a wanna-be that doesn't have the sense to see
that it doesn't work, and no clue as to what damage you are really doing.
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>Bro. Mark.....do you represent the Oneness Christians on this group?
Reprobate Bassett is a licensed UPC preacher who has a history of,
among other things: (from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html )
(Keep in mind that Robert D. Taylor is supportive of his "Bro"
Bassett in his activities as is the low life dirt Jim Wardrip.)
Let's have a look at some samples of what these scum of the earth
like Taylor and Wardrip support and endorse:
Quoting from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
basm0220.txt I was called by my 14 year old daughter into her room to
find apparently Mark Bassett talking about "sex offense". This has, of
course, been FAXed to the police as additional evidence of Bassett's
electronic stalking and harassment.
Since we know that Bassett is supported in his activities by iconn.net
I plan to contact their ISP regarding these matters.
UPC, please curb your dog.
bas0221a.txt This is a 2/21/98 public post by Mark Bassett in which he
makes various admissions regarding his harassment/stalking campaign
from iconn.net including his admission to accessing my 14 year old
daughter's computer. This has, of course, been FAXed to the Police
Dept. It appears that the UPCI has a real stench in their leadership
in the state of Conn.
UPC, please curb your dog.
Note: Mark Bassett, who, only days ago was falsely accusing me of
immorality, drug abuse, and many other things, now claims that he was
harassing my 14 year old daughter regarding alleged sex libel in
support of me.
Update 2/23/98 I have been contacted by my local police who have
contacted Mr. Bassett, who was kind enough to attempt to justify his
activities rather than denying them. I have been advised that the case
(Durham Police Dept IR-98-11737 is being forwarded to the FBI for
investigation as well as investigation regarding violation of Conn.
law.
me0507.txt This is my 5/7/98 public reply to Mark Bassett's blatant
lying regarding some of the harassment documented on this site
including his harassment of my 14 year old daughter.
me02039.txt This is my 2/3/99 public reply to more of Mark Bassett's
lying regarding his harassment by wire of my then 14 year old daughter
calling her attention to bizarre sex allegations on USENET. Quoted
also is another admission by Mark Bassett regarding the event. I also
comment about the uu.net security dept throwing their integrity into
the sewer regarding the ongoing malicious and criminal activity from
iconn.net
me02039a.txt This is another 2/3/99 public reply to more of Mark
Bassett's lying regarding his harassment by wire of my then 14 year
old daughter calling her attention to bizarre sex allegations on
USENET. Quoted also is another admission by Mark Bassett regarding the
event. I continue to be amazed at how these reprobate filth will
continue to lie when caught in lies.
mb02069.txt This is a full, unedited 2/6/99 public post by Mark
Bassett confirming his belief that polygamy is acceptable in the new
testament Church and that monogamy is only required for the ministry.
Mark Bassett is a licensed minister in the United Pentecostal Church
with the full support of David L MacDonald in Conn.
me02079.txt This is my 2/7/99 public commentary regarding Mark
Bassett's affirmation that he believes polygamy is acceptable in the
Apostolic Church. Remember this whole scenario is a continuation of
Bassett's efforts to cover up his previous lying.
Pastor Steve Winter
Mark Bassett
> >Bro. Mark.....do you represent the Oneness Christians on this group?
>
> Reprobate Bassett is a licensed UPC preacher who has a history of,
> among other things: (from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html )
Mr Winter is really getting upset now. You can tell when he republishes long
quotes from his libelous webpages.
Any reader will notice that I have never been charged with a crime related
to any of Mr Winters virtually countless, and bizzare frivilous "incident
reports" (translate: demands that someone listen to his ranting at the local
police department).
I -did- interview with an officer investigating Mr Winter's frivilous
charges. That was the end of it. And no, I don't suppose that it was because
Mr Winter immediately took to badmouthing the local district atty., and
police department in Durham on international media. LOL!
Mark Bassett
> Uh-oh, Mark's gone back to being a "we", always a bad sign. Please
> realize in advance, Mark, that when a Mary Baker Eddy fan hammers you
> to the floor, your piteous wails for help will go unheeded. I'm not
> operating a rescue mission for the losers in life. BTW, why don't you
> find a hobby that you're *good* at?- maybe whittling, or something...
OH! I *finally* read all the words anbd understand what you are rattling
about ROTFL!
You actually are trying to say that I want YOU to help ME debate with The
Fruitcake False Messiah?
That is really priceless and makes my night.
How are you going to convince yourself that *I* am asking YOU to prove the
Deity of Jesus Christ to him?
Nah ... you went way out on a limb that time... Sorry, wasn't my fault that
it would not hold you.
Fredericka - has it occured to you that all the clever insults and cut up
performance that you are so wrapped up with have NOTHING to do with
Chrisitanity? The point is, if you are really sincere about promoting the
Deity of Christ, then at least TRY to say something that would offend a man
who proposes that he himself is the Messiah. :-) If all you ever do is try
to convince the world that Jesus and the Son are two different persons, so
that you can continue to demand "But do you believe the Son is God", after I
say "JESUS is GOD" (which is the TRUTH), and a guy struts through thanking
you for your little wink and nod, who utterly decimates the canon of
scripture without so much as a small offence from you, to me, it says that
you arent really trying to declare Jesus' deity at all.
Which ... again, is a rather shocking thought.
How many Lords are there, Fredericka? He's using YOUR "two witness"
contraption to separate Jesus from Deity.
I'm not debating the guy, and I told him and you and everyone why, and
honestly I don't care what kinds of mocking you both undertake. I'm just
wondering where you are going to get any crredibility back, if you even
care.
Mike Bugal asked you a question, by the way. You miss that?
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:kn4k4uke30g1ickmt...@4ax.com...
> "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" <rob...@bellsouth.net> spake thusly
> and wrote:
>
> >Bro. Mark.....do you represent the Oneness Christians on this group?
>
> Reprobate Bassett is a licensed UPC preacher who has a history of,
> among other things: (from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html )
>
> (Keep in mind that Robert D. Taylor is supportive of his "Bro"
> Bassett in his activities as is the low life dirt Jim Wardrip.)
>
> Let's have a look at some samples of what these scum of the earth
> like Taylor and Wardrip support and endorse:
Bear in mind that this evidence is dated and was researched by your
favourite police department who concluded that no criminal charges were
warranted. And, the text of your libel clearly shows Mr. Bassett showing
empathy toward you. Nice try.
>
> Quoting from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
>
> basm0220.txt I was called by my 14 year old daughter into her room to
> find apparently Mark Bassett talking about "sex offense". This has, of
> course, been FAXed to the police as additional evidence of Bassett's
> electronic stalking and harassment.
>
> Since we know that Bassett is supported in his activities by iconn.net
> I plan to contact their ISP regarding these matters.
Again, your information is dated. If you haven't had any success by
now, it's because either you can't get your facts straight or you never had
a case to begin with.
>
> UPC, please curb your dog.
>
> bas0221a.txt This is a 2/21/98 public post by Mark Bassett in which he
> makes various admissions regarding his harassment/stalking campaign
> from iconn.net including his admission to accessing my 14 year old
> daughter's computer. This has, of course, been FAXed to the Police
> Dept. It appears that the UPCI has a real stench in their leadership
> in the state of Conn.
>
The remainder of your pathetic diatribe deleted. Have a good day.
Cheers,
John
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:74lj4u8cm55iclrrh...@4ax.com...
> w8...@juno.com (Jim Wardrip) spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >Mark Bassett's UPC license is real, as is mine with the organization I
> >belong to. Your's is not.
>
> What lying scum we find in filth like Jim Wardrip!
>
Let's face it Steve. He offered you a challenge to demonstrate who was
in the right which you ignored. If you were in the right, you would have
gladly obliged knowing that you would have won. Both of you can't be lying.
Cheers,
John
Huldah
<mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
No, actually I pointed out that "the word of the Lord" is described as
a person in this passage: "And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged
there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto
him, What doest thou here, Elijah?" (1 Kings 19:9), which is quite
true. In this wonderful passage of scripture, we read of "the word of
the LORD," that "he said." This is not exactly the way you talk about
a Western Union telegram. But the 'Oneness' cult, which denies the
eternal Deity of the Son of God, is stuck trying to recast the Word
who was "in the beginning" (John 1:1) as a 'plan' or 'thought' in the
mind of God that someday He would create a savior, because otherwise
the eternity they deny the Son on the one hand, sneaks up on them on
the other.
>Now you are propsing that the use of the collective voice "i.e.
>"If we suppose ... " is indication of some psychosis.
I do think it's a riot the way you're always a "we": "We apply Mr
Winter's requirement of harmony and we find that..." For somebody
with *nothing* going for him, isn't that a bit expansive?
>If you want psychosis, go no further than your little friend Peter, and look
>in the mirror to see where your imaginary support of Christianity stands
>when the summary of your commentary to Christ denying false messiahs is
>compared to the time you ahve spent railing and lying about worshippers of
>Jesus Christ.
I only tell the truth about you, and it's disgusting enough.
Huldah
<mba...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Uh-oh, Mark's gone back to being a "we", always a bad sign. Please
>> realize in advance, Mark, that when a Mary Baker Eddy fan hammers you
>> to the floor, your piteous wails for help will go unheeded. I'm not
>> operating a rescue mission for the losers in life. BTW, why don't you
>> find a hobby that you're *good* at?- maybe whittling, or something...
>
>OH! I *finally* read all the words anbd understand what you are rattling
>about ROTFL!
>
>You actually are trying to say that I want YOU to help ME debate with The
>Fruitcake False Messiah?
Yes, as you flounder about helplessly, you've been wailing for me to
come to your rescue for the past several days. Do I *really* have to
go to Google and search up all the references, Mark? ROTFLOL!
Huldah
<mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>> It seems to me that a ministerial license founded upon the Herculean
>> labor of having read *nine* (count 'em, nine) books is not worth the
>> paper it's printed on. If those whose claim to fame rests upon being
>> in receipt of such a 'licence' wish to pretend such a 'license' is of
>> value, they should not prolong their efforts to the point of making
>> the rest of us laugh.
>
>You must be completely without reading skills. THe list is a MINIMUM
>prescribed by the licensing authority.
Yes, I'm sure they'll *allow* you to read more than nine books if you
really want to, Mark. So go for it! Pick up that tenth book; sound
out all the difficult words!
>In addition to that, there are main
>requirements given by the individual district boards, since they are the
>ones who actually recommend the individual being licensed.
>
>Beyond that I explained considerably more, which you completely ignored in
>favor of your usual distortions, obviously because you have the character
>flaw of being unable to admit that you are wrong.
Since they ordained *you*, a pathological liar, the purported
character requirements would seem to be a sham and a pretense. Your
'minister's license' is a joke, Mark.
Huldah
<mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>> See what I mean? This pathological liar is considered morally fit
>> for the 'ministry' by the UPCI. If *he's* morally fit, who would not
>> be? Read nine books, pay the fee, and you're in!
>
>Same lie, repeated over and over ... gonna hit *someone*....
No lie but the obvious truth. If they would ordain *you*, whom would
they *not* ordain?
>Right? Thats the devil's work Fredericka, and you are his shining example of
>diligence.
---
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
a fuse"?? I am about ready for that "thang" to shut up and wither away.
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
making, wanna be preacher, gutless, hypocritical, scum maker of a
man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man.........he sounds worse than a dimbulb and a filthy trinitarian
slut!
You know I do not know why we pat ourselves on the back, because decerned
his old nasty spirit. It does not take a "holy man" or a rocket
scientist to figure what that dude is all about!!
Really Doc......wouldn't you hate to be the one who purchased his
PC.......thing is probably full of evil "boogers"!
"<--->" wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:24:48 -0500, Pastor Steve Winter
> <steve...@prime.org> wrote:
>
> Do us all a favor, Stevie- SELL your computer and donate the money to
> the less fortunate.
> You're one sad old man.
>
> _____________________________________________________
> SMILE ! Only a DENTIST should look down in the mouth!
> _____________________________________________________
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
By the way, how many preachers how you ordained in your Winterization
Organization? How many Missionaries have you on the field, and what about home
Bible Studies and Home Mission Churches. You must really be busy!
On a lower level; have you repented today?
Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor
"<--->" wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:31:18 -0500, Pastor Steve Winter
> <steve...@prime.org> wrote:
>
> >A handful of scum including reprobate Bassett have engaged
> >in civil conspiracies of various types to damage me, my reputation,
> >my ministry, and my business, but it is really just a handful of
> >spiritual scum spreading lies and other dirt repeating what they
> >"heard".
> >
> No one in their right mind would ever believe a word you say, Mr.
> W.......
> you have outright griped, complained, lied, falsely accused, libeled
> and slandered for so long now, that it's just a normal everyday thing
> with you.
>
> You claim to have a ministry......... where is it?
> No one in their right mind would sit and listen to you.
> Do you call people things like this in your 'church'???
> -- false christian scum
> -- reprobate
> -- gutless
> -- anon trash
> -- spiritual slut
> -- spiritual whore
> -- lying trash
> -- trinity filth
> -- pond scum
> -- three-god-squad
> -- lying piece of dirt
> ---and others...........
>
> As for your 'reputation' you have succeeded in damaging your own, Mr.
> W.
> I wouldn't want to be in your shoes, sir.
> You have publicly libeled so many people for some time now.
> You could be in for some mighty hefty lawsuits yourself.
> Look at slurp.net............. what you have called them, for no valid
> reason whatsoever.
> They, too, could level charges against you.
> I'd watch it if I were you.
Pastor Steve Winter
>> Reprobate Bassett is a licensed UPC preacher who has a history of,
>> among other things: (from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html )
>
>
>Mr Winter is really getting upset now. You can tell when he republishes long
>quotes from his libelous webpages.
There is nothing libelous on my webpages. It is ALL factual
and documented.
Mark Bassett is, above all things, a liar. <tm>
Now that is just more lying the reprobate Mark Bassett whose
ministry is founded upon BRAZEN defiance to the Word of God!
Of course even if Mark W Bassett was not already disqualified from the
ministry because of a previous marriage, divorce and remarriage, his
other malicious, deceitful and even criminal activities (some even
documented at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html ) would also show
that he is not even a real Christian, much less a "preacher".
The United Pentecostal Church International (UPCI) has some very real
problems with their blatant rebellion to the Word of God and Mr. Mark
Bassett is a walking testimony to that fact.
The really great sad tragedy here is that even a small handful of
poor gullible souls are actually looking to some reprobate like
Mark Bassett as their pastor?
Any real Oneness people reading out here need to think long and hard
about that one! Pray earnestly for them that God will let them see
Mr. Bassett for that which he is and that the Lord would reward Mr.
Bassett according to his works along with the pompous, backslidden,
pride engorged UPC elders like David L MacDonald who knowingly support
him.
Pastor Steve Winter
> Bear in mind that this evidence is dated and was researched by your
>favourite police department who concluded that no criminal charges were
>warranted. And, the text of your libel clearly shows Mr. Bassett showing
People get away with all sorts of crimes. It boils down to
budgets. Bassett was contacted by the police. People get
away with computer crime all the time. That does not mean
what they did was not criminal.
Just look at the level of low life scum like John Fraser
that will try to defend Bassett in his criminal activities.
In case you are inclined to consider Mr. Fraser in any way
honest or sincere, see http://www.impsmail.org/fraser.html
He is a malicious little troll grasping at straws in a
desperate attempt to try to appear to "be somebody" at
someone else's expense.
Pastor Winter
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:fs7m4uc914hh4moht...@4ax.com...
> "John Fraser" <jfr...@ns.sympatico.ca> spake thusly and wrote:
>
> > Bear in mind that this evidence is dated and was researched by your
> >favourite police department who concluded that no criminal charges were
> >warranted. And, the text of your libel clearly shows Mr. Bassett showing
>
> People get away with all sorts of crimes. It boils down to
> budgets. Bassett was contacted by the police. People get
> away with computer crime all the time. That does not mean
> what they did was not criminal.
That's true and you should know. Just because something is true doesn't
mean it can't be used for libel. Such activity is called a witch hunt and
serves a darker purpose than simply stating facts and is meant to sack
someone as your information is intended to accomplish. A good example of
this is your description of how the installation of your baptismal tub came
about.
>
> Just look at the level of low life scum like John Fraser
> that will try to defend Bassett in his criminal activities.
You know full well that this isn't true. You haven't established beyond
the shadow of a doubt that any guilt actually exists. In fact, Mr. Bassett
has apologized for some and you turned him down flat to justify keeping your
documents.
>
> In case you are inclined to consider Mr. Fraser in any way
> honest or sincere, see http://www.impsmail.org/fraser.html
>
> He is a malicious little troll grasping at straws in a
> desperate attempt to try to appear to "be somebody" at
> someone else's expense.
That's not true, Steve. You set the precedent from Day One by behaving
like a child thinking you can treat people any way you like. I'm not
worried because I won't have to account for you come Judgement Day. I'd
love to hear how you turned off more people than turned people to Jesus
Christ. It won't be me explaining your actions, just you. Oh, there's that
accountability thing again, something you clearly reject.
>
> Pastor Winter
Cheers,
John
Steven Buehler
the cited author.]
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rob...@bellsouth.net wrote on Sun, 20 Jan 2002 13:13:03 -0600 in article
<3C4B16BE...@bellsouth.net> ...
> He is one sad, old, bearded, friendless, pitiful, narrow minded, trouble
> making, wanna be preacher, gutless, hypocritical, scum maker of a
> man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Man.........he sounds worse than a dimbulb and a filthy trinitarian
With all due respect, some of this sinks down to Mr. Winter's level of
name-calling. I would suggest we stand above that kind.
SWB
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Mark Bassett
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 23:38:15 GMT, "Mark Bassett"
> <mbasset@not_optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >> It seems to me that a ministerial license founded upon the Herculean
> >> labor of having read *nine* (count 'em, nine) books is not worth the
> >> paper it's printed on. If those whose claim to fame rests upon being
> >> in receipt of such a 'licence' wish to pretend such a 'license' is of
> >> value, they should not prolong their efforts to the point of making
> >> the rest of us laugh.
> >
> >You must be completely without reading skills. THe list is a MINIMUM
> >prescribed by the licensing authority.
>
> Yes, I'm sure they'll *allow* you to read more than nine books if you
> really want to, Mark. So go for it! Pick up that tenth book; sound
> out all the difficult words!
This infantile insult is rather typical of you lately. I once had some
amount of respect for you, but this has completely disappeared. Here again,
you are misrepresenting.
The MINUMUM is prescribed by the international organization. The WHOLE
requirements are set down by the individual districts, which are personally
charged with the actual recommendation for licensing.
Howbeit, we recently heard from Mike Bugal, who appears to be very much
comitted to the same misdirection, and he went as far as actually suggesting
that people in the UPC were NOT allowed to read books.
Why do you lower yourself to saying such things as "sound out the difficult
words"? Is it really little of a concern to you that, in so doing, you make
yourself sound very self-righteous and very
> >In addition to that, there are main
> >requirements given by the individual district boards, since they are the
> >ones who actually recommend the individual being licensed.
> >
> >Beyond that I explained considerably more, which you completely ignored
in
> >favor of your usual distortions, obviously because you have the character
> >flaw of being unable to admit that you are wrong.
>
> Since they ordained *you*, a pathological liar, the purported
> character requirements would seem to be a sham and a pretense. Your
> 'minister's license' is a joke, Mark.
You may persist in your slander campaign, but you will not erase the
problems on your own conscience, and the record of your own lies which are
plainly recorded on these archives and to which many already attest.
You should consider whether it is more beneficial to continue your
deliberate misrepresentation, or more fervently regard the needs of your
soul. I'll be here either way, God willing, hate me, ignore me, or hear me,
you cannot change me because I do not serve you or your religion.
The only reason that I publish Fredericka, is that people may know that
Jesus Christ is the Absolute and True Deity, and that He is Perfect
Humanity, and that Knowing Him is knowing GOD in whole, and to tell people
that repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost,
exactly in the pattern of the Apostles is the the Bible way of salvation.
I would that God would bless you, but I would also that God would restrain
your false statements to prevent your own destruction. God is merciful - and
I continue to pray that you will find what you are looking for.
Mark Bassett
Sure - show everyone how I am desperate to have you prove to Peter that
Jesus is the second person of the trinity, and that that would help me.
Mark Bassett
Your conception of cults is neither here nor there, in this case. The fact
is that the phrase "the word of the Lord came to ... " does not describe two
persons.
When someone says "the word of God says to me ... " they are simply
refering to the fact that God is expressing Himself.
As usual, though even trinitarians pointed out the failing proof, ...
appealing to your reasoning is fruitless, so long as an admission of error
is involved. Rather, you resort to defaming others, who arent even involved
in the issue.
Mark Bassett
"Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" <rob...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3C4B02FE...@bellsouth.net...
> How long do you think it will take, before he completely "shorts out" or
"blows
> a fuse"?? I am about ready for that "thang" to shut up and wither away.
He is not running on human, or divine power. As such, the answer is - till
God pulls the plug, or he is no longer useful to Satan.
Mark Bassett
> "Mark Bassett" <mba...@optonline.net> spake thusly and wrote:
>
> >> Reprobate Bassett is a licensed UPC preacher who has a history of,
> >> among other things: (from http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html )
> >
> >
> >Mr Winter is really getting upset now. You can tell when he republishes
long
> >quotes from his libelous webpages.
>
> There is nothing libelous on my webpages. It is ALL factual
> and documented.
The only reason that you believe that, Mr Winter, is because those who you
libel do not bring you to court, or at least have not.
A disturbed mind is not the ultimate authority for what is fact, and where
'documentation' differs from the mixture of selective edition, and libelous
comment. If and when a court becomes involved, your own troubled mind will
not be alone in that process of deduction, and the results will be quite
different.
Mark Bassett
news:MPG.16b51f3b...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> <4hql4u4v8msl1frc3...@4ax.com> ...
> > You have publicly libeled so many people for some time now.
> > You could be in for some mighty hefty lawsuits yourself.
> > Look at slurp.net............. what you have called them, for no valid
> > reason whatsoever.
> > They, too, could level charges against you.
> > I'd watch it if I were you.
>
> suit against Mr. Winter, because we all have access to the same medium
> where we can file as public a defense as Mr. Winter's public defamations.
Truly, this has been the traditional arguement for treating the internet as
a medium different that a publication such as a newspaper. The concept of a
level playing field is central to the matter of whether a person's
defamatory comments can actually do irreversable damage. The courts have
generally tended toward the notion that the internet is as accessable to the
defamed party as to the defamer, and because of this, the need of relief by
civil court is quite different than in the case where, for example, a person
of limited means or limited access to publication might be unable to mount a
defense with the same scope of influence as the defamatory publisher.
I guess that the "depth of reputation" of an individual which is subject to
damage should also be a factor in
For example, one famous case shows a judgment given to a professor who was
libeled by a publisher whostated that the professor had received kick-backs.
In this case, the professional might well have been damaged in a way that
his own testimony could not recover from in that same playing field. On the
other hand, an individual with limited, shallow depth of influence, or
earning capacity in society has no similarly large profile to damage, nor
any scope of activity which his own tendered defense could not reasonably
envalidate.
However this is NOT the whole issue, and internet defamation and libel suits
DO make it successfully through court.
For further thought, consider these facts:
In the UK, a large company did successfully sue an ISP for defamatory
information published on usenet. The disposition of the original author of
the usenet posts is unclear from the reference:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/demon000331_segan.html, except
that a default judgement was won against him.
Notice however, that in the US the CDA of 1996 effectively removed the
responsibility of the ISP for the material published by downstream clients.
This makes the ISP similar to the phone company which cannot be sued for
crimes or torts that utilize the internet.
> Additionally, ISPs are specifically excluded from the defintion of a
> "telecommunications device" under Federal Law.
>
> However, this also means that Mr. Winter can't file a suit, either, so
> his claims that he has any case are moot, if not complete fabrications.
>
> SWB
>
>
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Peter of Canada
Truthful statements cannot be construed as slander. For you to object to
Huldah saying that you are a pathological liar by accusing her of slander is
nonsense. What it does show is that you are in denial of your own sin.
You are a liar Mark. You lie more than anyone I have ever seen since I took
my first breath. I am shocked by how much you lie. But what is more shocking
is that you deny it from time to time.
Her point is a valid one. You keep talking about the "requirements" for a
clerical license and she rightly points out that if they are willing to
license you, a man who lies constantly, then it would be hard to understand
what kind of person they would turn away, if indeed they ever do. So, in
this light, what is it that makes the license anything more than a sham?
If they recognized the problem with you and refused you a license until you
dealt with your "problem" then the license would be seen to be worth
something and to stand for something. But since no one seems to have a
problem with your moral failings, and allows you the most sacred of
responsibilities, they have abdicated their responsibility to God to at
least screen the people they are sending forth as clergy members in a
position of absolute trust.
What type of role model are you? What kind could you be? The youth that
already struggle with many pressures from the world don't need to have a
pastor who is a pathological liar.
(Zephaniah 3:3-4) Her officials within her are roaring lions; her judges
are evening wolves that leave nothing till the morning. {4} Her prophets are
wanton, faithless men; her priests profane what is sacred, they do violence
to the law.
(Hosea 4:4-9) Yet let no one contend, and let none accuse, for with you is
my contention, O priest. {5} You shall stumble by day, the prophet also
shall stumble with you by night; and I will destroy your mother. {6} My
people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected
knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have
forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children. {7} The
more they increased, the more they sinned against me; I will change their
glory into shame. {8} They feed on the sin of my people; they are greedy for
their iniquity. {9} And it shall be like people, like priest; I will punish
them for their ways, and requite them for their deeds.
(Jeremiah 2:8-9) The priests did not say, 'Where is the LORD?' Those who
handle the law did not know me; the rulers transgressed against me; the
prophets prophesied by Baal, and went after things that do not profit. {9}
"Therefore I still contend with you, says the LORD, and with your children's
children I will contend.
--
Peter
No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known
him. (1 John 3:6)
"Mark Bassett" <mba...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:k_K28.13590$Wu1.2...@news02.optonline.net...
>
> "Huldah" <bigfoot...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3c4b006c....@news.psouth.net...
> >
Pastor Steve Winter
and wrote:
>He is one sad, old, bearded, friendless, pitiful, narrow minded, trouble
>making, wanna be preacher, gutless, hypocritical, scum maker of a
>man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Man.........he sounds worse than a dimbulb and a filthy trinitarian
>slut!
Look at what a blathering ignorant dirt Robert Taylor
has become after his jump into sin with Mark Bassett!
Remember, Robert, while not the sharpest knife in the
drawer, was not a bad sort, but he decided that he
would be neutral about sin to please Mark Bassett.
He didn't say "neutral" for long, did he?
Jesus had a beard according to the Bible, but I guess
that is too much for Robert to comprehend.
But the ignorant dimbulb Robert D. Taylor sold his soul
for the approval of the reprobate Mark Bassett!
You reprobate scum would be funny in your hypocrisy were
you not now so malicious.
See folks, the weak minded Taylors, spiritual dimbulbs, decided
to be neutral about sin (the sin of the reprobate Mark Bassett).
But look at how quickly they have joined him in sin!
WARNING!! You cannot be neutral about sin or you will end
up as some religious scum like the Taylors!
See what the sinful, lukewarm spiritual filth, the Taylors
condone and support at http://www.impsmail.org/bassett.html
Those reprobate spiritual filth do not represent "Oneness"
except to testify to the backslidden and pride engorged
condition of some in UPCI leadership.
The Taylors have joined the handful of dimbulbs who threw
away their integrity, honor, and salvation to support the
reprobate Mark Bassett in his life of unrepentant sin.
Let any real Acts 2:38, holiness Christians join with me in
prayer that the Taylors would be the last that reprobate
Bassett deceives into hell with him.
Pastor Winter
John Fraser
"Pastor Steve Winter" <steve...@prime.org> wrote in message
news:fufn4u09o8vknlsbn...@4ax.com...
> "Robert D. and Linda J. Taylor" <rob...@bellsouth.net> spake thusly
> and wrote:
>
> >He is one sad, old, bearded, friendless, pitiful, narrow minded, trouble
> >making, wanna be preacher, gutless, hypocritical, scum maker of a
>
>man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >Man.........he sounds worse than a dimbulb and a filthy trinitarian
> >slut!
>
> Look at what a blathering ignorant dirt Robert Taylor
> has become after his jump into sin with Mark Bassett!
>
> Remember, Robert, while not the sharpest knife in the
> drawer, was not a bad sort, but he decided that he
> would be neutral about sin to please Mark Bassett.
>
> He didn't say "neutral" for long, did he?
It wasn't long before you showed your true colours either. From now on,
your participation could be accurately described as the pot calling the
kettle black. And it clearly isn't righteous nor Christ like. I'm
beginning to think that you have had a long track record of this type of
behaviour and your previous ISP's who revoked your contract through TOS
violations weren't picking on you. Sadly, you didn't take the hint.
Cheers,
John
Mike Bugal
> you cannot change me because I do not serve you or your religion.
Once again the "persecution complex" common to those in cultic
environments shines through in Mr. Bassett's words. The Christians
that dare to refute the odd doctrines of Mr. Bassett and his
organization "hate" them. One hears the same lie from the Jehovah's
Witnesses and Mormons in the religous world and from groups such as
the homosexual community in the secular world. The Truth of the matter
is that IF the Christian truly "hated" these folks they would let them
go their merry way to eternal damnation... if it were possible for the
Christian to do so. But the Holy Spirit will not allow such
callousness in those He indwells... and definitely not "hate".
The Truth of the matter is both the religous and the secular cultists
operate in the exact same spirit, each deceived and blinded by
whatever works best with them. Paul talks about the condition of those
who create a god in their own image and reject the God of the Bible in
Romans chapter 1. Both the religious and the secular cultists have a
"reprobate mind"... but the religous cultist gets an additional
blinder.
Paul says in 2 Corinthians 11:4 that those who receive "another Jesus"
by means of "another gospel" receive "another spirit". The greek word
translated "another" in regard to both the "spirit" and the "gospel"
in this verse is the word "heteros" (Strong's 2087). That is the root
word from which we get our word "heterosexual" and it means
"opposite". So the "spirit" and the "gospel" that those who receive
"another Jesus" have is opposite to the Gospel and Spirit of biblical
Christianity. Jesus said that when the Holy Spirit came that He would
lead those He indwelled "into all Truth" (see John 17 for additional
traits of the Holy Spirit), therefore the counterfeit (or
"opposite")"holy spirit" will lead into lies and deception. "It"
convinces that "it" indwells that those who wish to bring the Light of
Truth to them are really trying to deceive them and that they "hate"
them.
For this reason, reaching the religious cultist with Truth is even
more difficult than reaching reaching the secular cultist. But what
may appear impossible with man is always possible with God. In both
cases, the duty of the Christian is to share the Truth of God's Word
(not "opinion" nor "creed")and commit the person(s) to the Holy
Spirit... Who alone "convinces of sin" and draws the person to
repentance unto salvation. If one cannot tell the difference between
"refuting doctrines and practices" and attacking the person it would
be better to go do something else until such time as they can do so.
In Christ,
Mike Bugal
Founder, Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org/
Mark Bassett
"Peter of Canada" <petero...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:etO28.3577$KC1.7...@news20.bellglobal.com...
I appreciate when Peter of Canada takes the time to write this kind of post,
as much as I do when Steve Winter and Fredercka Lohr do. Demonic activity
puts people in unity as much as the Holy Ghost does. It tells me and others
exactly where this trinity of toons are.
I have to tell you though, Peter, you are a little on the slow side. Mr
Winter has been attempting to destroy me by asserting, directly to my
leadership, that I was a liar, since before you became the Messiah in your
own mind. You are welcome to try, along with your spiritual comrades.
Huldah
<mba...@optonline.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> >> Uh-oh, Mark's gone back to being a "we", always a bad sign. Please
>> >> realize in advance, Mark, that when a Mary Baker Eddy fan hammers you
>> >> to the floor, your piteous wails for help will go unheeded. I'm not
>> >> operating a rescue mission for the losers in life. BTW, why don't you
>> >> find a hobby that you're *good* at?- maybe whittling, or something...
>> >
>> >You demontrate that you need basic English again Fredericka. Earlier you
>> >were trying to prove that "the word of the Lord came to ..." had to refer
>> >to
>> >two persons.
>>
>> No, actually I pointed out that "the word of the Lord" is described as
>> a person in this passage: "And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged
>> there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto
>> him, What doest thou here, Elijah?" (1 Kings 19:9), which is quite
>> true. In this wonderful passage of scripture, we read of "the word of
>> the LORD," that "he said." This is not exactly the way you talk about
>> a Western Union telegram. But the 'Oneness' cult, which denies the
>> eternal Deity of the Son of God, is stuck trying to recast the Word
>> who was "in the beginning" (John 1:1) as a 'plan' or 'thought' in the
>> mind of God that someday He would create a savior, because otherwise
>> the eternity they deny the Son on the one hand, sneaks up on them on
>> the other.
>Your conception of cults is neither here nor there, in this case. The fact
>is that the phrase "the word of the Lord came to ... " does not describe two
>persons.
Reader, read my comments above, and notice that Mr. Bassett cannot
understand what I said at even the level of basic grammar.
>When someone says "the word of God says to me ... " they are simply
>refering to the fact that God is expressing Himself.
>
>As usual, though even trinitarians pointed out the failing proof, ...
>appealing to your reasoning is fruitless, so long as an admission of error
>is involved. Rather, you resort to defaming others, who arent even involved
>in the issue.
---