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Re: The age of marriage in the Quran
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arah
May 20, 2012, 10:33:13 AM5/20/12
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Top Women Abusing Verses from Bible…
If one ever wishes to find an explanation of woman’s inferiority to
men, one only has to look in the Bible.
“The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world,
that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned
before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced.
Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period
suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play
the role of a dependent on man’s bounty for all her material wants,
and for all the information she might desire… Here is the Bible
position of woman briefly summed up.”
–Elizabeth Cady Stanton
“Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and
sinful.”
–D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
Women Shall Not Speak
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as
also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Women’s Sorrow
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire
shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)
Comment
Not only does the Woman get blamed for the Fall, but God decides to
multiply her sorrow, plus, she must submit to her husband like a
slave.
Rip Up Pregnant Women
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God:
they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)
“Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness,
but the wickedness of a woman.” (Eccles. 25:13)
“Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all
die.” (Eccles. 25:22)
Wives, Submit Yourselves!
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of
the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church
is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in
everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)
Wife Like Slaves ?
Stone The Woman!
“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man
find her in the city, and lie with her;” (Deuteronomy 22:22)
“Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye
shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she
cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his
neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among
you.” (Deuteronomy 22:24)
Silence The Woman!
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not
a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in
silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not
deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I
Timothy 2:11-14)
Cut Off Her Hand!
“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one
draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that
smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity
her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
Female Births Get Penalty
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived
seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days;
according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be
unclean.” (Leviticus 12:2)
“But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as
in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her
purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:5)
wow What Great Double Standard !
Raping And Killing
“Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that
is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall
be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled,
and their wives ravished.” (Isaiah 13:15-16)
http://answeringchristian.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/top-women-abusing-verses-from-bible/
On May 20, 9:32 am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
> > SAHIH MUSLIM
> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
> > SUNAN NASA I
> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
> > IBN HISHAM
> > AL-TABARI
> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>
> Dude, does it matter who wrote the truth? It's still pretty fucking sick
> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. That's just
> wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
If one ever wishes to find an explanation of woman’s inferiority to
men, one only has to look in the Bible.
“The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world,
that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned
before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced.
Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period
suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play
the role of a dependent on man’s bounty for all her material wants,
and for all the information she might desire… Here is the Bible
position of woman briefly summed up.”
–Elizabeth Cady Stanton
“Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and
sinful.”
–D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
Women Shall Not Speak
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as
also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
church.” (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
Women’s Sorrow
“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire
shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” (Genesis 3:16)
Comment
Not only does the Woman get blamed for the Fall, but God decides to
multiply her sorrow, plus, she must submit to her husband like a
slave.
Rip Up Pregnant Women
“Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God:
they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
and their women with child shall be ripped up.” (Hosea 13:16)
“Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness,
but the wickedness of a woman.” (Eccles. 25:13)
“Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all
die.” (Eccles. 25:22)
Wives, Submit Yourselves!
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of
the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church
is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in
everything.” (Ephesians 5:22-24)
Wife Like Slaves ?
Stone The Woman!
“If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man
find her in the city, and lie with her;” (Deuteronomy 22:22)
“Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye
shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she
cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his
neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among
you.” (Deuteronomy 22:24)
Silence The Woman!
“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not
a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in
silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not
deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I
Timothy 2:11-14)
Cut Off Her Hand!
“When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one
draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that
smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity
her.” (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
Female Births Get Penalty
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived
seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days;
according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be
unclean.” (Leviticus 12:2)
“But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as
in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her
purifying threescore and six days.” (Leviticus 12:5)
wow What Great Double Standard !
Raping And Killing
“Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that
is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall
be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled,
and their wives ravished.” (Isaiah 13:15-16)
http://answeringchristian.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/top-women-abusing-verses-from-bible/
On May 20, 9:32 am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
> > SAHIH MUSLIM
> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
> > SUNAN NASA I
> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
> > IBN HISHAM
> > AL-TABARI
> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>
> Dude, does it matter who wrote the truth? It's still pretty fucking sick
> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. That's just
> wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
May 20, 2012, 5:10:50 PM5/20/12
to
Women in the Qur’an
By Dallas M. Roark
The life of women in Muslim countries today cannot be understood apart
from reflecting on the Qur’an first, and then hadiths (traditions) and
laws that have been created due to the influence of the Qur’an.
There are many passages dealing with men and women, and they are
scattered throughout the Qur’an, but there are a number declaring that
God created man and woman. At first this implies some equality, but on
a closer study, women are not equal in any important sense. They are
equal when it comes to faith and believing, but then the result of
this believing does not bring equality in life. Sura 4:124 declares
"And whosoever does deeds of righteousness, be it male or female,
believing–they shall enter Paradise and not be wronged a single date-
spot."1 The same thought is expressed in Sura 16:97, with a slightly
different emphasis, "And whosoever does a righteous deed, be it male
or female, believing, We shall assuredly give him to live a goodly
life; and We shall recompense them their wage, according to the best
of what they did." The repetition of this is again expressed in Sura
40:40, and almost similarly in Sura 53:45, when it is declared that
God created male and female. (See also Sura 92:3 and 75:39 for the
same thought.)
There are a variety of passages that suggest a bit different analysis
regarding the status of women in the Qur’an. Wives on earth are still
wives in Paradise with an exception that their impurity is gone. (Sura
2:25) Being no longer subject to the menstrual cycle is one bit of
good news in the Qur’an. Now in natural living the cycle is gone when
a woman reaches middle age or thereabouts, but wives in Paradise are
believed to be always the same age as their husbands. The tradition
states that wives and husbands would be about 30 or 33 years of age
forever. To declare that a woman would be without impurity at age 30
or 33 would make sense, since that is a threatening time for women on
earth who may not want to be pregnant. (The repetition of the passage
is seen in 3:15 and 4:57.)
Although women may well read this as good news for themselves, in the
overall context of the Qur’an which will emerge later in this article,
it seems more likely intended to be good news to the men, because
women who do not have menstrual bleeding anymore will always be
available for sex, i.e. women will loose their only valid excuse to
refuse their husband's demand for intercourse. Moreover, it is not
even so clear whether these pure companions promised to the believers
in 2:25, 3:15, and 4:57 are actually their earthly wives (in ‘purified
form’) or whether they are not rather a reference to the houris that
will be given to the male Muslim who enter paradise. (See the article,
Did Allah forget the wives?)
There is another strain of thought running through the Qur’an and it
involves paradise through the eyes of the male, rather than the female
being there on her own right and because of her own faith. Paradise is
described as a man’s world where he shall eat and drink with easy
digestion. "Reclining upon couches ranged in rows; and We shall
espouse them to wide-eyed houris," (52:20) or as Sales translated it,
"virgins having large black eyes." (p. 506)
In Sura 37:44 the faithful have waiting for them fruits and high honor
where they recline on couches face to face with spring water passed
around to them "and with them wide-eyes maidens restraining their
glances."
In Sura 38:52, the description is similar with an additional qualifier
that the maidens are of equal age to the males. The men recline, are
given abundant fruits, and the maidens are around them restraining
their glances. Sale translated the additional description of maidens
"refraining their looks from beholding any besides their spouses." (p.
447) In Sura 44:51 a little different emphasis is made. The Qur’an
says, "Surely the god-fearing shall be in a station secure among
gardens and fountains, robed in silk and brocade, set face to face.
Even so, and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris, therein
calling for every fruit, secure."
In Sura 56:23 Paradise is described with the fruit, couches, and
"maidens restraining their glances, untouched before them by any men
or jinn...lovely as rubies, beautiful as coral."
A paragraph later the maidens are said to be "good and
comely...houris, cloister in cool pavilions...untouched before them by
any man or jinn." Sura 56:10-25 describes the same scene in paradise
with the couches, reclining face to face, with immortal youths going
round about them with goblets, and ewers, and a cup from a spring (no
brows throbbing, no intoxication) and such fruits as they shall
choose, and such flesh of fowl as they desire, and wide-eyed houris as
the likeness of hidden pearls, a recompense for that they labored."
The Sura continues to underscore the fact that God created the
spotless virgins, "chastely amorous, like of age for the Companions of
the Right." Sura 78:32-33 confirms again the reward of the god-fearing
who will be given a place of security, "gardens and vineyards and
maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing."
The non-Muslims can read these statements and a number of questions
arise.
First, what is the reward for faithful women? They are promised
paradise, but at best they are ignored in the reward system. Second,
the men seemed to be rewarded the beautiful damsels of like age, and
since there is no explanation in the Qur’an, it would seem that the
female believers lose out on things. On the one hand it seems that
they are equal to the men in being welcomed to Paradise in some of the
passages, but on the other hand, appear to be replaced by the dark
eyed houris. Third, whatever the solution to this question, paradise
is clearly the reward for the men rather than the women.
These are issues about Paradise for the female. Down on earth things
are quite different but not much better in many ways. Men’s wives are
compared to a garden, their tillage, "so come unto your tillage as you
wish." (Sura 2:223) But in spite of this general attitude toward a
husband’s sexuality, there are some limitations. When one is going on
the Pilgrimage a man should "not go into his womenfolk, nor indulge in
ungodliness and disputing in the Pilgrimage." (Sura 2:197) Women are
not to engage in sex with their husbands during their monthly course.
They are not to have sex until the wives are "clean." (Sura 2:222)
The Day of Judgment is the basis for purity for the man and woman.
Because of their "chastisement none feels secure and guard their
private parts save from their wives and what their right hand
owns...." (Sura 70:29-31) Sale translated this as abstaining from
"carnal knowledge of women other than their wives, or the slaves which
their right hands posses (for as to them they shall be blameless; but
whoever coveteth any women besides these, they are
transgressors.)" (Sale, p. 552)
We have observed many Muslim cultures in which women cover themselves
almost completely. The inspiration for this is in the Qur’an. Sura
33:59 declares, "O Prophet, say to thy wives and daughters and the
believing women, that they draw their veils close to them; so it is
likelier they will be known, and not hurt." Sale gave a more detailed
interpretation translation, women are to "cast their outer garments
over them when they walk abroad; this will be more proper, that they
may be known to be matrons of reputation, and may not be affronted by
unseemly words or actions." (p. 417)
Greater detail is given concerning the covering of women in Sura
24:30-31. The Qur’an says, "Say to the believers, that they cast down
their eyes and guard their private parts; that is purer for them. God
is aware of the things they work, and say to the believing women, that
they cast down their eyes and guard their private parts, and reveal
not their adornment save such as is outward and let them cast their
veils over their bosoms, and not reveal their adornment save to their
husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s father, or their sons,
or their husband’s son, or their sister’s sons, or their women, or
what their right hands own, or such men as attend them, not having
sexual desire, or children who have not yet attained knowledge of
women’s private parts; nor let them stamp their feet, so that their
hidden ornaments may be known."
The subordinate position of women in society is reinforced in other
contexts. Sura 2:228 states, "Women have such honorable rights as
obligations, but their men have a degree above them." Sale is more to
the point in declaring that "the women ought also to behave towards
their husbands in like manner as their husbands should behave toward
them, according to what is just; but the men ought to have a
superiority over them. God is mighty and wise." (p. 32) The
superiority is expressed in another fashion toward their wives. "Men
are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in
bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of
their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the
secret for God’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious
admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then
obey you, look not for any way against them." (Sura 4:34) Moreover,
the Qur’an declares that God "created for you, of yourselves, spouses,
that you might repose in them." (Sura 30:20)
The inferior position of woman in the Qur’an is further seen in
regulations regarding some ordinary matters of life. Women are
supposedly more prone to err in matters of witnessing. In matters of
contracts, "two men should witness, but if not two men, then one man,
and two women so that if one of the two women should err, the other
will remind her." (Sura 2:282)
There are other comments made about women in the Qur’an, many of them
in an occasional context. In the Sura on women, it appears that the
fear of God and respect for women are in the same sentence. Sale
translates, "fear God and respect women," but notes that the word
"women" is literally "the wombs." Arberry translates it directly, "and
fear God by whom you demand of one another, and the wombs." (4:1)
Immediately following this passage comes direction concerning orphans,
mostly female orphans. "If you fear that you will not act justly
toward the orphans, marry such women as seem good to you, two, three,
four." (Sura 4:3)
Orphans should be tested to make sure they are worthy of receiving
their endowments. If a man could not afford free women he could have
slaves for sexual purposes as well. (Sale, p. 71)
The Qur’an improves on the pagan practices regarding inheritance for
women. A woman should not have any part of her husband’s or father’s
estate. Sura 4:11 declares that a woman shall share of what parents
and kinsmen leave. A man shall inherit twice as much as a female.
(Sale, p. 72)
If a woman is guilty of "indecency" (Arberry) "whoredom" (Sale) and
four witnesses can be produced against them, they are to be detained
in their houses until "death take them or God appoints for them a
way." (Sura 4:15) The passage continues, "And when two of you commit
indecency," implying the possibility of either fornication or sodomy.
Sura 24:2 is more detailed in punishment. The whore and the
whoremonger are to be scourged with 100 stripes, and this judgment was
not to be hedged by compassion. This sin had the consequences of
restricting the people one could marry. The man could only marry a
harlot, and the woman could only marry a whoremonger. Neither of them
could marry true believers. (24:3)
The Qur’an declares that a man shall purify himself before prayer, and
among those polluting sources are women. (Sura 5:6) It may be worth
noting explicitly here that men apparently are not similarly a source
of pollution for women. Apparently women are inherently more unclean
than men if the one is stated and not the other. While there are
inequalities in many ways between men and women, crime is treated
differently in regard to punishment.. Women are treated equally here.
Sura 5:38 declares, "And the thief, male and female; cut off the hands
of both, as a recompense for what they have earned and a punishment
exemplary from God."
Women appear to be the natural object of sex in the Qur’an. In three
passages recalling the story of Lot in the Old Testament, the charge
is made that a great indecency was committed: "See, you approach men
lustfully instead of women." (Sura 7:81, 27:55 and 29:29)
Coveting other women than one’s wives and what "one’s right hand owns"
is to become a transgressor. Men are to guard "their private parts
save from their wives." (Sura 23:5)
We have seen that four witnesses are important for charging someone
with adultery. If someone charged another with adultery without four
witnesses, they are not to be believed, and should be scourged with
eighty stripes. (Sura 24:4) This passage is important for Muhammad’s
own personal life. On one expedition Muhammad took his wife Aisha to
accompany him. On their return to Medina the army was moving by night
and Aisha alighted from the camel to relieve herself. On her return
she discovered that she had dropped a necklace and returned to search
for it. The attendant, thinking she was in the curtained carriage on
the camel, moved on. She expected that they would return quickly to
find her, and she fell asleep. Early in the morning, Safwan Ebn al
Moattel, who had stayed behind to rest, came upon Aisha, and put her
on his camel and following the army they found it at noon. Her
reputation was called into question, and Muhammad did not know what to
think. Aisha’s enemies spread malicious rumors. This Sura seemed to
put a stop to false rumors.
Another improvement from Muhammad was the prohibition of using one’s
slave girls for prostitution and their owners collecting their fees.
Sura 24:33 states, "And constrain not your slave girls to
prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek
the chance goods of the present life." The question may be raised if
they don’t desire to live in chastity, is prostitution then okay? How
much freedom did a slave girl have to express to their masters what
they really want or do not want? What is the effect of this command if
the person did not have the full freedom to go against the wish of the
owner?
There is a rather unusual characterization about one woman in the
Qur’an. It refers to Lot’s wife. The story of Lot is referred to a
number of times in the Qur’an but in two of them Lot’s wife is
described in a degrading way. The fact that the city of Sodom is
judged is true, but among the unbelievers was Lot’s wife, "An old
woman among those that tarried." (Sura 26:171). Similarly, in Sura
37:135, the Qur’an states that Lot was delivered and his people
together, save an old woman among those that tarried.
This description may only be stating a fact, but with the tendency on
the part of polygamist to be attracted to younger women as the man
grows older, as was true in Muhammad’s case, the question can only be
raised whether this was a slur on older women. The age of a woman has
little to do with her faith or lack of faith.
Muhammad’s attitude toward his wives is rather interesting. He
regarded his wives as "mothers" of the believing. (Sura 33:6) But the
prophet’s wives needed to be an example in their lifestyle. Allah is
supposed to have said to the wives through Muhammad that if they
desire adornments in this life, then Muhammad could divorce them. They
were given the choice of living with Muhammad on his terms or being
divorced. If his wives should commit a "flagrant indecency, for her
the chastisement shall be doubled." (Sura 33:30) Greater
responsibility has the greater punishment. It seems strange that Allah
would command this regarding women’s transgressions but not for the
prophet himself. The wife of the prophet would also find double reward
for her obedience, one measure for her faith, and the other measure
for her obedient behavior to Muhammad.
This obedience is reflected in the words to be "god-fearing, be not
abject in your speech, so that he in whose heart is sickness may be
lustful; but speak honorable words. Remain in your houses, and display
not your finery, as did the pagans of old. And perform the prayer, and
pay the alms, and obey God and His messenger." (Sura 33:32)
The obedience to Muhammad as prophet is stressed in an unusual
situation. Sura 33:36 notes, "It is not for any believer, man or
woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the
choice in the affair. Whoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone
astray into manifest error." Muhammad intended to marry his cousin
Zainab bint Jash to Zaid, his freed slave and adopted son. Zainab and
her family refused this proposal at first, but after this revelation
had come they could no longer resist, and the two were married.
The story of Zainab has further development. Sale recounts the story
of how Muhammad went to Zaid’s house on some business, but he was not
home. Muhammad did cast his eyes accidentally on Zainab, "who was then
in a dress which discovered her beauty to advantage, and was so
smitten at the sight, that he could not forswear crying out, ‘God be
praised, who turneth the hearts of men as he pleaseth!" Zainab was
flattered by the remark of Muhammad and conveyed the comment to her
husband, Zaid. After reflecting on this, Zaid determined to divorce
her so that Muhammad could marry her. This revelation seems designed
to give Allah’s approval so that no scandal would arise out of the
situation. Hence the Qur’an states regarding this episode, "There is
no fault in the Prophet, touching what God has ordained for
him." (Sura 33:38)
The Qur’an gives great latitude to Muhammad concerning wives. It says,
"O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast
given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God
has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts
paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated
with thee, and any woman believer, if she gives herself to the Prophet
and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee
exclusively, apart from the believers–We know what we have imposed
upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own–that
there may be no fault in thee." (Sura 33:50) Sale translates the last
thought by these words: "This is a peculiar privilege granted unto
thee, above the rest of the true believers." (p. 415)
Muhammad’s wives were to be secluded from his followers. Sura 33:53
also declares that the followers were to speak to his wives with them
behind a curtain "that is cleaner for your hearts and theirs." Not
only were they not to be seen or touched by other men, other men were
not "to marry his wives after him, ever...." On the matter of
touching, this particular sura seems to have come about after Muhammad
was disturbed by one of his companions accidentally touching Aisha.
Divorce appears to be fairly easy in the Qur’an, but there are
guidelines for it. If a man has not touched his wife (sexually) there
is little involved in divorcing her especially if no dowry has been
established. Sura 2:228 indicates that if divorce is made, the woman
should wait by herself without sexual relations for three of her
periods to indicate that there is nothing in her womb. Following this
time the husband could restore her. But at any event he can divorce
her only twice. The paragraph on this appears ambiguous about the
finality of the divorce. It says, "If he divorces her finally, she
shall not be lawful to him after that, until she marries another
husband. If he divorces her, then it is no fault in them to return to
each other, if they suppose that they will maintain God’s
bounds." (2:230) A wife whose husband has died should not marry again
until four months and ten nights go by presumably to certify that
there are no heirs of the deceased husband.
There were husbands who divorced their wives rejecting them declaring,
"be as my mother’s back." Sura 58:2 says "Those of you who say,
regarding their wives, ‘Be as my mother’s back’" are uttering a
falsehood. This was apparently a pagan way of divorce, then current in
Arabia, and mostly at the petition of a woman who had small children
and was rejected by her husband, Muhammad proclaimed this Sura in
condemnation of that practice.
In Sura 65:1 Muhammad is told to count the period of the women to be
divorced. They are not to be put out until the time has expired. If a
woman is pregnant, she is not to be put out until she delivers and in
some case agreement is made for nursing. But if there is a problem
between them, then another woman may be secured for suckling the
child. The obvious implication is that the child belongs to the man,
not the woman. The Qur’an does not give the traditional formula for
divorce, i.e., I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you.
In summary, with regard to the Qur’an, and the issues of women and
marriage, these have become normative for Muslim cultures. Muhammad
defended himself at one point against his opponents by declaring what
Allah told him to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own
loss; if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me." (34:50)
There is a more serious issue here than Muhammad admits. If he went
astray he has led astray countless generations. To him goes the
authority of what marriage is like in Muslim cultures, as well as
divorce. A westerner looks at the view of women in the Qur’an and
laments that it takes a slice of time and history and makes it
normative for all generations of Muslims thereafter.
Most westerns are curious about the matter of polygamy. Muslim writers
tend to defend polygamy on the following lines. First, war has
devastated the male population and there are more women then men.
Second, argument is made that the western pattern of monogamy has
failed because of many divorces, affairs, and permissiveness. Third,
polygamy has been the custom in all ages and this proves to the Muslim
"that it is natural to man."2 Fourth, "If a wife, owing to biological
factors, is unable to give birth to a child, or satisfy her husband’s
sexual urges, the man may safely opt for polygamy." This saves the
first wife from divorce and from being "homeless and shelter-less."
The author states, "The basic aim of the married life is the
satisfaction of the sexual desire within the bounds of legality....The
man is always sexually active provided he is healthy and normal, while
even a perfectly healthy woman is not always inclined to sex."3 The
menstrual course keeps her from being able to engage in sexual
relations. Fifth, normal sexual attraction requires the possibility of
polygamy. "Is it not natural that a person having one wife may be
attracted towards another woman so much so that this attraction may
demand fulfillment?" One may well ask how it is possible to be
attracted to a woman who is all covered up. Since you are not supposed
to see the woman, and she is not supposed to talk to men other than
her family, how is one supposed to learn to know a woman?
Should one ask about the opposite situation, many husbands, and one
wife, the answer is that nature does not allow 28 days of sex a month.
Moreover, the "primary aim behind espousing a woman is to impregnate
her."4
Polygamy is defended on the grounds that a woman can object to a
second wife. This can be the grounds of divorcing him. But it is
claimed that "no home has been destroyed by polygamy."5
In summary, one can see the discrepancy of equality in the matter of
faith before Allah, and the inequality in this world of men. The
article on polygamy is written from a very male point of view. The
woman is regarded as a womb and the function of a woman is to have
sex. If she cannot, she must face the prospect of a competitor in
marriage in a second or third wife. While polygamy may be the story of
sinful man, we must observe the model of creation–God made only man
and woman, not Adam and four wives.
____________________
Notes:
1 All quotes from the Qur’an are from two sources: 1) A. J. Arberry,
The Koran Interpreted, New York: The Macmillan Co., 1967, and 2)
George Sales, The Koran. London: Frederick Warne and Co. Unless
indicated, the quotations are from Arberry’s translation.
2 Shahnaz Begum, "Islam and Polygamy," The Muslim World League
Journal, June-July, 1983, no. 9, p. 17
3 Ibid.
4 Ibid., p. 19
5 Ibid., p. 20
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Roark/women.htm
By Dallas M. Roark
The life of women in Muslim countries today cannot be understood apart
from reflecting on the Qur’an first, and then hadiths (traditions) and
laws that have been created due to the influence of the Qur’an.
There are many passages dealing with men and women, and they are
scattered throughout the Qur’an, but there are a number declaring that
God created man and woman. At first this implies some equality, but on
a closer study, women are not equal in any important sense. They are
equal when it comes to faith and believing, but then the result of
this believing does not bring equality in life. Sura 4:124 declares
"And whosoever does deeds of righteousness, be it male or female,
believing–they shall enter Paradise and not be wronged a single date-
spot."1 The same thought is expressed in Sura 16:97, with a slightly
different emphasis, "And whosoever does a righteous deed, be it male
or female, believing, We shall assuredly give him to live a goodly
life; and We shall recompense them their wage, according to the best
of what they did." The repetition of this is again expressed in Sura
40:40, and almost similarly in Sura 53:45, when it is declared that
God created male and female. (See also Sura 92:3 and 75:39 for the
same thought.)
There are a variety of passages that suggest a bit different analysis
regarding the status of women in the Qur’an. Wives on earth are still
wives in Paradise with an exception that their impurity is gone. (Sura
2:25) Being no longer subject to the menstrual cycle is one bit of
good news in the Qur’an. Now in natural living the cycle is gone when
a woman reaches middle age or thereabouts, but wives in Paradise are
believed to be always the same age as their husbands. The tradition
states that wives and husbands would be about 30 or 33 years of age
forever. To declare that a woman would be without impurity at age 30
or 33 would make sense, since that is a threatening time for women on
earth who may not want to be pregnant. (The repetition of the passage
is seen in 3:15 and 4:57.)
Although women may well read this as good news for themselves, in the
overall context of the Qur’an which will emerge later in this article,
it seems more likely intended to be good news to the men, because
women who do not have menstrual bleeding anymore will always be
available for sex, i.e. women will loose their only valid excuse to
refuse their husband's demand for intercourse. Moreover, it is not
even so clear whether these pure companions promised to the believers
in 2:25, 3:15, and 4:57 are actually their earthly wives (in ‘purified
form’) or whether they are not rather a reference to the houris that
will be given to the male Muslim who enter paradise. (See the article,
Did Allah forget the wives?)
There is another strain of thought running through the Qur’an and it
involves paradise through the eyes of the male, rather than the female
being there on her own right and because of her own faith. Paradise is
described as a man’s world where he shall eat and drink with easy
digestion. "Reclining upon couches ranged in rows; and We shall
espouse them to wide-eyed houris," (52:20) or as Sales translated it,
"virgins having large black eyes." (p. 506)
In Sura 37:44 the faithful have waiting for them fruits and high honor
where they recline on couches face to face with spring water passed
around to them "and with them wide-eyes maidens restraining their
glances."
In Sura 38:52, the description is similar with an additional qualifier
that the maidens are of equal age to the males. The men recline, are
given abundant fruits, and the maidens are around them restraining
their glances. Sale translated the additional description of maidens
"refraining their looks from beholding any besides their spouses." (p.
447) In Sura 44:51 a little different emphasis is made. The Qur’an
says, "Surely the god-fearing shall be in a station secure among
gardens and fountains, robed in silk and brocade, set face to face.
Even so, and We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris, therein
calling for every fruit, secure."
In Sura 56:23 Paradise is described with the fruit, couches, and
"maidens restraining their glances, untouched before them by any men
or jinn...lovely as rubies, beautiful as coral."
A paragraph later the maidens are said to be "good and
comely...houris, cloister in cool pavilions...untouched before them by
any man or jinn." Sura 56:10-25 describes the same scene in paradise
with the couches, reclining face to face, with immortal youths going
round about them with goblets, and ewers, and a cup from a spring (no
brows throbbing, no intoxication) and such fruits as they shall
choose, and such flesh of fowl as they desire, and wide-eyed houris as
the likeness of hidden pearls, a recompense for that they labored."
The Sura continues to underscore the fact that God created the
spotless virgins, "chastely amorous, like of age for the Companions of
the Right." Sura 78:32-33 confirms again the reward of the god-fearing
who will be given a place of security, "gardens and vineyards and
maidens with swelling breasts, like of age, and a cup overflowing."
The non-Muslims can read these statements and a number of questions
arise.
First, what is the reward for faithful women? They are promised
paradise, but at best they are ignored in the reward system. Second,
the men seemed to be rewarded the beautiful damsels of like age, and
since there is no explanation in the Qur’an, it would seem that the
female believers lose out on things. On the one hand it seems that
they are equal to the men in being welcomed to Paradise in some of the
passages, but on the other hand, appear to be replaced by the dark
eyed houris. Third, whatever the solution to this question, paradise
is clearly the reward for the men rather than the women.
These are issues about Paradise for the female. Down on earth things
are quite different but not much better in many ways. Men’s wives are
compared to a garden, their tillage, "so come unto your tillage as you
wish." (Sura 2:223) But in spite of this general attitude toward a
husband’s sexuality, there are some limitations. When one is going on
the Pilgrimage a man should "not go into his womenfolk, nor indulge in
ungodliness and disputing in the Pilgrimage." (Sura 2:197) Women are
not to engage in sex with their husbands during their monthly course.
They are not to have sex until the wives are "clean." (Sura 2:222)
The Day of Judgment is the basis for purity for the man and woman.
Because of their "chastisement none feels secure and guard their
private parts save from their wives and what their right hand
owns...." (Sura 70:29-31) Sale translated this as abstaining from
"carnal knowledge of women other than their wives, or the slaves which
their right hands posses (for as to them they shall be blameless; but
whoever coveteth any women besides these, they are
transgressors.)" (Sale, p. 552)
We have observed many Muslim cultures in which women cover themselves
almost completely. The inspiration for this is in the Qur’an. Sura
33:59 declares, "O Prophet, say to thy wives and daughters and the
believing women, that they draw their veils close to them; so it is
likelier they will be known, and not hurt." Sale gave a more detailed
interpretation translation, women are to "cast their outer garments
over them when they walk abroad; this will be more proper, that they
may be known to be matrons of reputation, and may not be affronted by
unseemly words or actions." (p. 417)
Greater detail is given concerning the covering of women in Sura
24:30-31. The Qur’an says, "Say to the believers, that they cast down
their eyes and guard their private parts; that is purer for them. God
is aware of the things they work, and say to the believing women, that
they cast down their eyes and guard their private parts, and reveal
not their adornment save such as is outward and let them cast their
veils over their bosoms, and not reveal their adornment save to their
husbands, or their fathers, or their husband’s father, or their sons,
or their husband’s son, or their sister’s sons, or their women, or
what their right hands own, or such men as attend them, not having
sexual desire, or children who have not yet attained knowledge of
women’s private parts; nor let them stamp their feet, so that their
hidden ornaments may be known."
The subordinate position of women in society is reinforced in other
contexts. Sura 2:228 states, "Women have such honorable rights as
obligations, but their men have a degree above them." Sale is more to
the point in declaring that "the women ought also to behave towards
their husbands in like manner as their husbands should behave toward
them, according to what is just; but the men ought to have a
superiority over them. God is mighty and wise." (p. 32) The
superiority is expressed in another fashion toward their wives. "Men
are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in
bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of
their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the
secret for God’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious
admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then
obey you, look not for any way against them." (Sura 4:34) Moreover,
the Qur’an declares that God "created for you, of yourselves, spouses,
that you might repose in them." (Sura 30:20)
The inferior position of woman in the Qur’an is further seen in
regulations regarding some ordinary matters of life. Women are
supposedly more prone to err in matters of witnessing. In matters of
contracts, "two men should witness, but if not two men, then one man,
and two women so that if one of the two women should err, the other
will remind her." (Sura 2:282)
There are other comments made about women in the Qur’an, many of them
in an occasional context. In the Sura on women, it appears that the
fear of God and respect for women are in the same sentence. Sale
translates, "fear God and respect women," but notes that the word
"women" is literally "the wombs." Arberry translates it directly, "and
fear God by whom you demand of one another, and the wombs." (4:1)
Immediately following this passage comes direction concerning orphans,
mostly female orphans. "If you fear that you will not act justly
toward the orphans, marry such women as seem good to you, two, three,
four." (Sura 4:3)
Orphans should be tested to make sure they are worthy of receiving
their endowments. If a man could not afford free women he could have
slaves for sexual purposes as well. (Sale, p. 71)
The Qur’an improves on the pagan practices regarding inheritance for
women. A woman should not have any part of her husband’s or father’s
estate. Sura 4:11 declares that a woman shall share of what parents
and kinsmen leave. A man shall inherit twice as much as a female.
(Sale, p. 72)
If a woman is guilty of "indecency" (Arberry) "whoredom" (Sale) and
four witnesses can be produced against them, they are to be detained
in their houses until "death take them or God appoints for them a
way." (Sura 4:15) The passage continues, "And when two of you commit
indecency," implying the possibility of either fornication or sodomy.
Sura 24:2 is more detailed in punishment. The whore and the
whoremonger are to be scourged with 100 stripes, and this judgment was
not to be hedged by compassion. This sin had the consequences of
restricting the people one could marry. The man could only marry a
harlot, and the woman could only marry a whoremonger. Neither of them
could marry true believers. (24:3)
The Qur’an declares that a man shall purify himself before prayer, and
among those polluting sources are women. (Sura 5:6) It may be worth
noting explicitly here that men apparently are not similarly a source
of pollution for women. Apparently women are inherently more unclean
than men if the one is stated and not the other. While there are
inequalities in many ways between men and women, crime is treated
differently in regard to punishment.. Women are treated equally here.
Sura 5:38 declares, "And the thief, male and female; cut off the hands
of both, as a recompense for what they have earned and a punishment
exemplary from God."
Women appear to be the natural object of sex in the Qur’an. In three
passages recalling the story of Lot in the Old Testament, the charge
is made that a great indecency was committed: "See, you approach men
lustfully instead of women." (Sura 7:81, 27:55 and 29:29)
Coveting other women than one’s wives and what "one’s right hand owns"
is to become a transgressor. Men are to guard "their private parts
save from their wives." (Sura 23:5)
We have seen that four witnesses are important for charging someone
with adultery. If someone charged another with adultery without four
witnesses, they are not to be believed, and should be scourged with
eighty stripes. (Sura 24:4) This passage is important for Muhammad’s
own personal life. On one expedition Muhammad took his wife Aisha to
accompany him. On their return to Medina the army was moving by night
and Aisha alighted from the camel to relieve herself. On her return
she discovered that she had dropped a necklace and returned to search
for it. The attendant, thinking she was in the curtained carriage on
the camel, moved on. She expected that they would return quickly to
find her, and she fell asleep. Early in the morning, Safwan Ebn al
Moattel, who had stayed behind to rest, came upon Aisha, and put her
on his camel and following the army they found it at noon. Her
reputation was called into question, and Muhammad did not know what to
think. Aisha’s enemies spread malicious rumors. This Sura seemed to
put a stop to false rumors.
Another improvement from Muhammad was the prohibition of using one’s
slave girls for prostitution and their owners collecting their fees.
Sura 24:33 states, "And constrain not your slave girls to
prostitution, if they desire to live in chastity, that you may seek
the chance goods of the present life." The question may be raised if
they don’t desire to live in chastity, is prostitution then okay? How
much freedom did a slave girl have to express to their masters what
they really want or do not want? What is the effect of this command if
the person did not have the full freedom to go against the wish of the
owner?
There is a rather unusual characterization about one woman in the
Qur’an. It refers to Lot’s wife. The story of Lot is referred to a
number of times in the Qur’an but in two of them Lot’s wife is
described in a degrading way. The fact that the city of Sodom is
judged is true, but among the unbelievers was Lot’s wife, "An old
woman among those that tarried." (Sura 26:171). Similarly, in Sura
37:135, the Qur’an states that Lot was delivered and his people
together, save an old woman among those that tarried.
This description may only be stating a fact, but with the tendency on
the part of polygamist to be attracted to younger women as the man
grows older, as was true in Muhammad’s case, the question can only be
raised whether this was a slur on older women. The age of a woman has
little to do with her faith or lack of faith.
Muhammad’s attitude toward his wives is rather interesting. He
regarded his wives as "mothers" of the believing. (Sura 33:6) But the
prophet’s wives needed to be an example in their lifestyle. Allah is
supposed to have said to the wives through Muhammad that if they
desire adornments in this life, then Muhammad could divorce them. They
were given the choice of living with Muhammad on his terms or being
divorced. If his wives should commit a "flagrant indecency, for her
the chastisement shall be doubled." (Sura 33:30) Greater
responsibility has the greater punishment. It seems strange that Allah
would command this regarding women’s transgressions but not for the
prophet himself. The wife of the prophet would also find double reward
for her obedience, one measure for her faith, and the other measure
for her obedient behavior to Muhammad.
This obedience is reflected in the words to be "god-fearing, be not
abject in your speech, so that he in whose heart is sickness may be
lustful; but speak honorable words. Remain in your houses, and display
not your finery, as did the pagans of old. And perform the prayer, and
pay the alms, and obey God and His messenger." (Sura 33:32)
The obedience to Muhammad as prophet is stressed in an unusual
situation. Sura 33:36 notes, "It is not for any believer, man or
woman, when God and His Messenger have decreed a matter, to have the
choice in the affair. Whoever disobeys God and His Messenger has gone
astray into manifest error." Muhammad intended to marry his cousin
Zainab bint Jash to Zaid, his freed slave and adopted son. Zainab and
her family refused this proposal at first, but after this revelation
had come they could no longer resist, and the two were married.
The story of Zainab has further development. Sale recounts the story
of how Muhammad went to Zaid’s house on some business, but he was not
home. Muhammad did cast his eyes accidentally on Zainab, "who was then
in a dress which discovered her beauty to advantage, and was so
smitten at the sight, that he could not forswear crying out, ‘God be
praised, who turneth the hearts of men as he pleaseth!" Zainab was
flattered by the remark of Muhammad and conveyed the comment to her
husband, Zaid. After reflecting on this, Zaid determined to divorce
her so that Muhammad could marry her. This revelation seems designed
to give Allah’s approval so that no scandal would arise out of the
situation. Hence the Qur’an states regarding this episode, "There is
no fault in the Prophet, touching what God has ordained for
him." (Sura 33:38)
The Qur’an gives great latitude to Muhammad concerning wives. It says,
"O Prophet, We have made lawful for thee thy wives whom thou hast
given their wages and what thy right hand owns, spoils of war that God
has given thee, and the daughters of thy uncles paternal and aunts
paternal, thy uncles maternal and aunts maternal, who have emigrated
with thee, and any woman believer, if she gives herself to the Prophet
and if the Prophet desire to take her in marriage, for thee
exclusively, apart from the believers–We know what we have imposed
upon them touching their wives and what their right hands own–that
there may be no fault in thee." (Sura 33:50) Sale translates the last
thought by these words: "This is a peculiar privilege granted unto
thee, above the rest of the true believers." (p. 415)
Muhammad’s wives were to be secluded from his followers. Sura 33:53
also declares that the followers were to speak to his wives with them
behind a curtain "that is cleaner for your hearts and theirs." Not
only were they not to be seen or touched by other men, other men were
not "to marry his wives after him, ever...." On the matter of
touching, this particular sura seems to have come about after Muhammad
was disturbed by one of his companions accidentally touching Aisha.
Divorce appears to be fairly easy in the Qur’an, but there are
guidelines for it. If a man has not touched his wife (sexually) there
is little involved in divorcing her especially if no dowry has been
established. Sura 2:228 indicates that if divorce is made, the woman
should wait by herself without sexual relations for three of her
periods to indicate that there is nothing in her womb. Following this
time the husband could restore her. But at any event he can divorce
her only twice. The paragraph on this appears ambiguous about the
finality of the divorce. It says, "If he divorces her finally, she
shall not be lawful to him after that, until she marries another
husband. If he divorces her, then it is no fault in them to return to
each other, if they suppose that they will maintain God’s
bounds." (2:230) A wife whose husband has died should not marry again
until four months and ten nights go by presumably to certify that
there are no heirs of the deceased husband.
There were husbands who divorced their wives rejecting them declaring,
"be as my mother’s back." Sura 58:2 says "Those of you who say,
regarding their wives, ‘Be as my mother’s back’" are uttering a
falsehood. This was apparently a pagan way of divorce, then current in
Arabia, and mostly at the petition of a woman who had small children
and was rejected by her husband, Muhammad proclaimed this Sura in
condemnation of that practice.
In Sura 65:1 Muhammad is told to count the period of the women to be
divorced. They are not to be put out until the time has expired. If a
woman is pregnant, she is not to be put out until she delivers and in
some case agreement is made for nursing. But if there is a problem
between them, then another woman may be secured for suckling the
child. The obvious implication is that the child belongs to the man,
not the woman. The Qur’an does not give the traditional formula for
divorce, i.e., I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you.
In summary, with regard to the Qur’an, and the issues of women and
marriage, these have become normative for Muslim cultures. Muhammad
defended himself at one point against his opponents by declaring what
Allah told him to say, "If I go astray, I go astray only to my own
loss; if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me." (34:50)
There is a more serious issue here than Muhammad admits. If he went
astray he has led astray countless generations. To him goes the
authority of what marriage is like in Muslim cultures, as well as
divorce. A westerner looks at the view of women in the Qur’an and
laments that it takes a slice of time and history and makes it
normative for all generations of Muslims thereafter.
Most westerns are curious about the matter of polygamy. Muslim writers
tend to defend polygamy on the following lines. First, war has
devastated the male population and there are more women then men.
Second, argument is made that the western pattern of monogamy has
failed because of many divorces, affairs, and permissiveness. Third,
polygamy has been the custom in all ages and this proves to the Muslim
"that it is natural to man."2 Fourth, "If a wife, owing to biological
factors, is unable to give birth to a child, or satisfy her husband’s
sexual urges, the man may safely opt for polygamy." This saves the
first wife from divorce and from being "homeless and shelter-less."
The author states, "The basic aim of the married life is the
satisfaction of the sexual desire within the bounds of legality....The
man is always sexually active provided he is healthy and normal, while
even a perfectly healthy woman is not always inclined to sex."3 The
menstrual course keeps her from being able to engage in sexual
relations. Fifth, normal sexual attraction requires the possibility of
polygamy. "Is it not natural that a person having one wife may be
attracted towards another woman so much so that this attraction may
demand fulfillment?" One may well ask how it is possible to be
attracted to a woman who is all covered up. Since you are not supposed
to see the woman, and she is not supposed to talk to men other than
her family, how is one supposed to learn to know a woman?
Should one ask about the opposite situation, many husbands, and one
wife, the answer is that nature does not allow 28 days of sex a month.
Moreover, the "primary aim behind espousing a woman is to impregnate
her."4
Polygamy is defended on the grounds that a woman can object to a
second wife. This can be the grounds of divorcing him. But it is
claimed that "no home has been destroyed by polygamy."5
In summary, one can see the discrepancy of equality in the matter of
faith before Allah, and the inequality in this world of men. The
article on polygamy is written from a very male point of view. The
woman is regarded as a womb and the function of a woman is to have
sex. If she cannot, she must face the prospect of a competitor in
marriage in a second or third wife. While polygamy may be the story of
sinful man, we must observe the model of creation–God made only man
and woman, not Adam and four wives.
____________________
Notes:
1 All quotes from the Qur’an are from two sources: 1) A. J. Arberry,
The Koran Interpreted, New York: The Macmillan Co., 1967, and 2)
George Sales, The Koran. London: Frederick Warne and Co. Unless
indicated, the quotations are from Arberry’s translation.
2 Shahnaz Begum, "Islam and Polygamy," The Muslim World League
Journal, June-July, 1983, no. 9, p. 17
3 Ibid.
4 Ibid., p. 19
5 Ibid., p. 20
http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Roark/women.htm
• R. L. Measures.
May 20, 2012, 6:05:54 PM5/20/12
to
In article
<97c1e87b-185d-4774...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>, arah
<arahar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Top Women Abusing Verses from Bible=85
>
>If one ever wishes to find an explanation of woman=92s inferiority to
>and for all the information she might desire=85 Here is the Bible
>position of woman briefly summed up.=94
>
>=96Elizabeth Cady Stanton
>
>=93Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and
>sinful.=94
>=96D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
>
>Women Shall Not Speak
>=93Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
>
>Women=92s Sorrow
>=93Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
>
>=93Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness,
>but the wickedness of a woman.=94 (Eccles. 25:13)
>
>=93Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all
>die.=94 (Eccles. 25:22)
>
>Wives, Submit Yourselves!
>=93Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
>find her in the city, and lie with her;=94 (Deuteronomy 22:22)
>
>=93Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye
>you.=94 (Deuteronomy 22:24)
>
>Silence The Woman!
>=93Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not
>
>Female Births Get Penalty
>=93Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived
>
>=93But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as
>
>http://answeringchristian.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/top-women-abusing-verses=
>-from-bible/
>> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. . That's just
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
<97c1e87b-185d-4774...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>, arah
<arahar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Top Women Abusing Verses from Bible=85
>
>If one ever wishes to find an explanation of woman=92s inferiority to
>men, one only has to look in the Bible.
>
>=93The bible teaches that women brought sin and death into the world,
>
>that she precipitated the fall of the race, that she was arraigned
>before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced.
>Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period
>suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play
>the role of a dependent on man=92s bounty for all her material wants,
>before the judgment seat of Heaven, tried, condemned and sentenced.
>Marriage for her was to be a condition of bondage, maternity a period
>suffering and anguish, and in silence and subjection, she was to play
>and for all the information she might desire=85 Here is the Bible
>position of woman briefly summed up.=94
>
>=96Elizabeth Cady Stanton
>
>=93Christianity teaches that the human race is depraved, fallen, and
>sinful.=94
>=96D. James Kennedy (Why I Believe, World Publishing, 1980)
>
>Women Shall Not Speak
>=93Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted
>unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as
>also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask
>their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
>church.=94 (I Corinthians 14:34-35)
>also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask
>their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the
>
>Women=92s Sorrow
>=93Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
>conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire
>shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.=94 (Genesis 3:16)
>
>Comment
>
>Not only does the Woman get blamed for the Fall, but God decides to
>multiply her sorrow, plus, she must submit to her husband like a
>slave.
>
>Rip Up Pregnant Women
>=93Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God:
>Comment
>
>Not only does the Woman get blamed for the Fall, but God decides to
>multiply her sorrow, plus, she must submit to her husband like a
>slave.
>
>Rip Up Pregnant Women
>they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
>and their women with child shall be ripped up.=94 (Hosea 13:16)
>
>=93Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness,
>but the wickedness of a woman.=94 (Eccles. 25:13)
>
>=93Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all
>die.=94 (Eccles. 25:22)
>
>Wives, Submit Yourselves!
>=93Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
>For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of
>the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church
>is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in
>everything.=94 (Ephesians 5:22-24)
>the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church
>is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in
>
>Wife Like Slaves ?
>
>
>
>
>Stone The Woman!
>=93If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, and a man
>Wife Like Slaves ?
>
>
>
>
>Stone The Woman!
>find her in the city, and lie with her;=94 (Deuteronomy 22:22)
>
>=93Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye
>shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she
>cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his
>neighbour=92s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among
>cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his
>you.=94 (Deuteronomy 22:24)
>
>Silence The Woman!
>=93Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not
>a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in
>silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not
>deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.=94 (I
>silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not
>Timothy 2:11-14)
>
>Cut Off Her Hand!
>=93When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one
>
>Cut Off Her Hand!
>draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that
>smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
>secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity
>her.=94 (Deuteronomy 25:11-12)
>smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the
>secrets: then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity
>
>Female Births Get Penalty
>=93Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived
>seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days;
>according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be
>unclean.=94 (Leviticus 12:2)
>according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be
>
>=93But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as
>in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her
>purifying threescore and six days.=94 (Leviticus 12:5)
>wow What Great Double Standard !
>
>Raping And Killing
>=93Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that
>
>Raping And Killing
>is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall
>be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled,
>and their wives ravished.=94 (Isaiah 13:15-16)
>be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled,
>
>http://answeringchristian.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/top-women-abusing-verses=
>-from-bible/
>
>
>On May 20, 9:32=A0am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
>> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
>> > SAHIH MUSLIM
>> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
>> > SUNAN NASA I
>> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
>> > IBN HISHAM
>> > AL-TABARI
>> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
>> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
>> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>>
>> Dude, does it matter who wrote the truth? =A0It's still pretty fucking sick
>
>On May 20, 9:32=A0am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
>> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
>> > SAHIH MUSLIM
>> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
>> > SUNAN NASA I
>> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
>> > IBN HISHAM
>> > AL-TABARI
>> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
>> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
>> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>>
>> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. . That's just
>> wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
• Aisha was not quite 9-yrs old when she had coitus withe the "prophet".
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
arah
May 25, 2012, 4:50:48 PM5/25/12
to
Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine
emperors and nobility!
Emphasis using dark green, bold and underline, below are mine. Below,
we see child brides as young as 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13.
The child empress Agnes of France was the spouse of two emperors of
Byzantium, the boy emperor Alexius II Comnenus, and subsequently
Andronicus I Comnenus, the latter's first cousin once removed. Agnes
was born to King Louis VII of France's third wife, Adèle (or Alix) of
Blois-Champagne, the daughter of Count Theobald II of Blois, in 1172.
This made her the younger sister of the future French king Philip II
Augustus. The house of Blois-Champagne was the second most powerful
magnate house in France (after the house of Plantagenet). The emperor
Manuel I Comnenus was looking for allies in the west, since the Peace
of Venice in 1177 had effectively allied the Pope (Alexander III), the
Holy Roman Empire, Venice, the other Italian communes and Sicily
against him. After discussion with the count of Flanders, Philip of
Alsace, who visited Constantinople in early 1178 on his way back from
the Holy Land, Manuel sent an embassy, including Philip, to the French
court over the winter of 1178-1179 to secure a match between his son
Alexius (born in 1169) and the princess Agnes.[[1]] This match may
have been opposed by the members of the house of Blois-Champagne, who
were pro-German.[[2]]
According to William of Tyre, Agnes was only eight on her arrival at
Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen; in fact Alexius was born
on 14 September 1169.[[3]] Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign
princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from
the late twelfth century. Irene Ducaena, wife of Alexius I Comnenus,
was twelve at her marriage, and empress before she was fifteen; the
Byzantine princess Theodora, Manuel's niece, was in her thirteenth
year when she married Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and Margaret-Maria of
Hungary married Isaac II Angelus at the age of nine. Agnes's age,
then, was not unusual, especially as it was customary for young
engaged couples in Constantinople to be brought up together in the
house of the socially superior partner.[[4]]
Agnes boarded a ship in Genoa under the captaincy of Baldavino
Guercio, and on arrival in Constantinople in the Easter of 1179 was
greeted with an oration from the ex-Master of the Rhetors, Eustathius,
Archbishop of Thessalonica.[[5]] Robert of Clari describes the rich
entourage which accompanied Agnes to Constantinople:
Then the king arrayed his sister [sic] very richly and sent her with
the messengers to Constantinople, and many of his people with her...
When they were come, the emperor did very great honor to the damsel
and made great rejoicing over her and her people'.[[6]]
Agnes was received with great festivities, including a fleet of boats
colourfully festooned, and her arrival was heralded in a lengthy
production of welcoming verses by an anonymous author, in which the
description of her attractions reaches an unusual degree of hyperbole
with her 'lively form' being compared to air and crystal. The verses
record how more than seventy ladies of the imperial house came out to
greet her, with one sent ahead to attire her appropriately as an
Augusta (empress) for the occasion, while Maria Porphyrogenita is
shown as paying homage to her new sister-in-law in a tent outside the
walls: the arrival of Agnes in the capital and this adoption of
Byzantine court costume is illustrated in the manuscript.[[7]] Agnes
is described as outshining even her new sister-in-law, who, with her
fiancé Béla of Hungary had been Manuel's heir before the birth of her
brother Alexius II, and who had since been offered as a bride to
William II of Sicily, John Lackland, the youngest son of Henry II of
England, and Henry, the son of Frederick Barbarossa.[[8]] The fact
that Maria, who was to be one of the champions of the anti-Latin
faction in the city, is shown as doing obeisance to the western-born
empress emphasised the superiority of the new Latin princess over her
sister-in-law and publicly demonstrated the success of Manuel's pro-
western policy.[[9]]
Manuel's two surviving children were to celebrate a double wedding.
Maria was to marry Renier, the son of William the Old of Montferrat
(in north-western Italy), who was considerably younger than herself,
and Renier was granted the title Caesar and assumed the name John.
[[10]] At the same time, the young prince Alexius was to marry Agnes,
though a further wedding ceremony at a later date may have been
envisaged, as Agnes is invariably called Alexius' bride, not his wife,
in the sources. The ceremonies took place in the palace on 2 March
1180, and were conducted by the patriarch Theodosius. Agnes now took
the official name of Anna. The wedding banquet was spectacularly
conducted in the Hippodrome, and once again, Eustathius produced a
speech to celebrate the occasion,[[11]] describing the way in which
the starting stalls were converted to kitchens and the poor were able
to help themselves to the leftovers.
The lavishness of the entertainment was obviously intended not only to
win the approval of the inhabitants of the city, but also to dazzle
westerners with Byzantine magnificence and sophistication:
'any attempt to describe in detail all the wonders of those days would
be utterly futile ... the games of the circus which the inhabitants of
Constantinople call hippodromes, and the glorious spectacles of varied
nature shown to the people with great pomp during the days of the
celebration; the imperial magnificence of the vestments and the royal
robes adorned with a profusion of precious stones and pearls of great
weight; the vast amount of massive gold and silver furniture in the
palace, of untold value ... the valuable draperies adorning the royal
abode ... the numerous servants and members of the court, the
magnificence of the nuptial splendour, and the generous gifts which
the emperor lavished on both his own people and on strangers.'[[12]]
We hear little of Agnes during Alexius' reign (24 September 1180 to
prior to 24 September 1183). It is highly unlikely that the match was
consummated, as it was customary to import imperial brides from
overseas at a young age to enable them to become acquainted with Greek
and with their future ceremonial duties; certainly it was unusual
under normal circumstances for Byzantine girls to marry before the age
of twelve. However, shortly before Alexius completed three years as
emperor, Manuel's first cousin Andronicus made himself co-emperor and
then usurped Alexius's position altogether, putting him out of the way
by having him throttled. Nicetas Choniates then, with morbid relish,
claims that Andronicus (who was born c. 1118 and was thus about 65
years of age) sexually exploited the eleven-year old princess.[[13]]
Despite the fact that his marriage to Anna, some fifty years his
junior, may well have been made for political reasons -- and
Andronicus had portraits of Mary of Antioch in the capital replaced
with ones of himself either alone or accompanied by his child-
bride[[14]]-- Choniates makes the most of the opportunity to ridicule
Andronicus, his age and the incongruity of the alliance ('the overripe
suitor embracing the unripe maiden, the dotard the damsel with pointed
breasts, the shriveled and languid old man the rosy-fingered girl
dripping with the dew of love').[[15]] According to Eustathius of
Thessalonica as well, the match was repugnant to her, as she regretted
Alexius' death and loathed Andronicus:[[16]] She was the young
daughter of the king of France, and as everybody knew hated the union
because she was full of intelligence; and after having experienced a
different kind of gentle loving, she loathed the roughness of
Andronicus. Sometimes, they say, she would imagine in her dreams that
she saw the young Alexius, and would cry out his name, and she alone
knew what she suffered.
Andronicus had previously indulged in many amorous and romantic
adventures (with Manuel's niece, Eudocia, daughter of Manuel's brother
Andronicus; with another niece, Theodora, daughter of Manuel's brother
Isaac and widow of Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and with Philippa of
Antioch, Manuel's sister-in-law). As emperor, despite his young bride,
he openly consorted with prostitutes and concubines, both in and out
of doors, and Choniates informs us that Andronicus sought to attain
both 'the sexual prowess of the cuttlefish', and that of Heracles with
the fifty-one daughters of Thyestes, resorting to ointments and other
aphrodisiac aids, such as regularly eating an (extremely repugnant)
animal similar to the crocodile, for this purpose.[[17]]
Nevertheless, Agnes' attitude towards Andronicus may have changed over
the following two years. When he was in turn ousted by Isaac II
Angelus (12 September 1185), and fled for his life in a boat towards
the direction of Russia, he took both Agnes, and the prostitute
Maraptike of whom he was rapturously enamoured, with him, along with a
few attendants.[[18]] However, contrary winds thwarted his plans to
escape, and he was brought back with Agnes and Maraptike to
Constantinople. In an attempt to persuade his captors on board ship to
release him, he sang a pathetic lament about his past life and present
calamity, in which the women joined, cleverly responding in song to
his lamentations.[[19]] However, his efforts were in vain and he
suffered a particularly horrible death in the Hippodrome.
We hear nothing of Agnes' life subsequent to the death of Andronicus
in Byzantine sources. However, nearly twenty years later, in 1203,
Robert of Clari states that the leaders of the Fourth Crusade found
her living in a palace married to a 'high man of the city', Theodore
Branas, who is first heard of in 1189 as commander of the Alans
(Georgian mercenaries) against Frederick Barbarossa's Germans.[[20]]
The Branas family was related to the Comneni and Angeli, and had
produced prominent military commanders from the eleventh century.
Theodore's mother was one of the daughters of Manuel's sister Eudocia
and Theodore Vatatzes, and thus a cousin of Alexius II. Theodore's
father, Alexius Branas, who had prevented the Normans from moving
against Constantinople in 1185, had revolted against Isaac II Angelus
shortly afterwards, perhaps in 1187. Alexius' head was cut off and
brought to Isaac in triumph, and Choniates praises the restraint of
the widow when shown the severed head and remarks that Manuel had
praised her as the 'flower of his family'. Theodore thereupon
inherited his father's opposition to Isaac II and was to support
Alexius III Angelus' successful rebellion against his brother Isaac in
1195.[[21]] Theodore was then to be employed by Alexius III against
the Turks and in 1199 was governor of Kouperion.[[22]]
It is unclear when Agnes married Branas, but a dowager empress was a
valuable prize and presumably the match took place at the instigation
of Isaac II to attempt to ensure the loyalty of the Branas family to
the current regime. Agnes received the barons of the Fourth Crusade as
befitted a Byzantine empress -- with bad grace, according to Robert,
and would talk only through an interpreter, pretending that she knew
no French.[[23]] She was now over thirty years of age and had, after
all, spent most of her life in the Byzantine capital and at the
Byzantine court. During the sack of the city she was to shelter in the
palace of Boucoleon along with the ex-empress Margaret-Maria of
Hungary and several other imperial women.[[24]] According to Geoffrey
of Villehardouin, however, Agnes' husband was the 'only' Greek who
sided with the crusaders, and he was well repaid by them for his
support. As a vassal of the Latin Empire, he was made lord of
Didymoteichon and Adrianople in Thrace, where Agnes apparently
accompanied him.[[25]] According to Aubry de Trois-Fontaines (s.v. AD
1205), she had a daughter who married Narjand de Toucy, cousin of Guy
de Dampierre. Agnes thereupon disappears from history but the Branas
family, including several notable Theodores, continued to accumulate
vast estates and intermarry with other noble families, including the
Palaeologue dynasty.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aishahage.htm
A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/thai_girl.htm
On May 21, 6:05 am, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.) wrote:
> In article
> <97c1e87b-185d-4774-a451-f45d64e1a...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>, arah
> >http://answeringchristian.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/top-women-abusing-...
>
> - Show quoted text -
emperors and nobility!
Emphasis using dark green, bold and underline, below are mine. Below,
we see child brides as young as 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13.
The child empress Agnes of France was the spouse of two emperors of
Byzantium, the boy emperor Alexius II Comnenus, and subsequently
Andronicus I Comnenus, the latter's first cousin once removed. Agnes
was born to King Louis VII of France's third wife, Adèle (or Alix) of
Blois-Champagne, the daughter of Count Theobald II of Blois, in 1172.
This made her the younger sister of the future French king Philip II
Augustus. The house of Blois-Champagne was the second most powerful
magnate house in France (after the house of Plantagenet). The emperor
Manuel I Comnenus was looking for allies in the west, since the Peace
of Venice in 1177 had effectively allied the Pope (Alexander III), the
Holy Roman Empire, Venice, the other Italian communes and Sicily
against him. After discussion with the count of Flanders, Philip of
Alsace, who visited Constantinople in early 1178 on his way back from
the Holy Land, Manuel sent an embassy, including Philip, to the French
court over the winter of 1178-1179 to secure a match between his son
Alexius (born in 1169) and the princess Agnes.[[1]] This match may
have been opposed by the members of the house of Blois-Champagne, who
were pro-German.[[2]]
According to William of Tyre, Agnes was only eight on her arrival at
Constantinople, while Alexius was thirteen; in fact Alexius was born
on 14 September 1169.[[3]] Child brides, whether Byzantines or foreign
princesses, were the norm rather than the exception, especially from
the late twelfth century. Irene Ducaena, wife of Alexius I Comnenus,
was twelve at her marriage, and empress before she was fifteen; the
Byzantine princess Theodora, Manuel's niece, was in her thirteenth
year when she married Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and Margaret-Maria of
Hungary married Isaac II Angelus at the age of nine. Agnes's age,
then, was not unusual, especially as it was customary for young
engaged couples in Constantinople to be brought up together in the
house of the socially superior partner.[[4]]
Agnes boarded a ship in Genoa under the captaincy of Baldavino
Guercio, and on arrival in Constantinople in the Easter of 1179 was
greeted with an oration from the ex-Master of the Rhetors, Eustathius,
Archbishop of Thessalonica.[[5]] Robert of Clari describes the rich
entourage which accompanied Agnes to Constantinople:
Then the king arrayed his sister [sic] very richly and sent her with
the messengers to Constantinople, and many of his people with her...
When they were come, the emperor did very great honor to the damsel
and made great rejoicing over her and her people'.[[6]]
Agnes was received with great festivities, including a fleet of boats
colourfully festooned, and her arrival was heralded in a lengthy
production of welcoming verses by an anonymous author, in which the
description of her attractions reaches an unusual degree of hyperbole
with her 'lively form' being compared to air and crystal. The verses
record how more than seventy ladies of the imperial house came out to
greet her, with one sent ahead to attire her appropriately as an
Augusta (empress) for the occasion, while Maria Porphyrogenita is
shown as paying homage to her new sister-in-law in a tent outside the
walls: the arrival of Agnes in the capital and this adoption of
Byzantine court costume is illustrated in the manuscript.[[7]] Agnes
is described as outshining even her new sister-in-law, who, with her
fiancé Béla of Hungary had been Manuel's heir before the birth of her
brother Alexius II, and who had since been offered as a bride to
William II of Sicily, John Lackland, the youngest son of Henry II of
England, and Henry, the son of Frederick Barbarossa.[[8]] The fact
that Maria, who was to be one of the champions of the anti-Latin
faction in the city, is shown as doing obeisance to the western-born
empress emphasised the superiority of the new Latin princess over her
sister-in-law and publicly demonstrated the success of Manuel's pro-
western policy.[[9]]
Manuel's two surviving children were to celebrate a double wedding.
Maria was to marry Renier, the son of William the Old of Montferrat
(in north-western Italy), who was considerably younger than herself,
and Renier was granted the title Caesar and assumed the name John.
[[10]] At the same time, the young prince Alexius was to marry Agnes,
though a further wedding ceremony at a later date may have been
envisaged, as Agnes is invariably called Alexius' bride, not his wife,
in the sources. The ceremonies took place in the palace on 2 March
1180, and were conducted by the patriarch Theodosius. Agnes now took
the official name of Anna. The wedding banquet was spectacularly
conducted in the Hippodrome, and once again, Eustathius produced a
speech to celebrate the occasion,[[11]] describing the way in which
the starting stalls were converted to kitchens and the poor were able
to help themselves to the leftovers.
The lavishness of the entertainment was obviously intended not only to
win the approval of the inhabitants of the city, but also to dazzle
westerners with Byzantine magnificence and sophistication:
'any attempt to describe in detail all the wonders of those days would
be utterly futile ... the games of the circus which the inhabitants of
Constantinople call hippodromes, and the glorious spectacles of varied
nature shown to the people with great pomp during the days of the
celebration; the imperial magnificence of the vestments and the royal
robes adorned with a profusion of precious stones and pearls of great
weight; the vast amount of massive gold and silver furniture in the
palace, of untold value ... the valuable draperies adorning the royal
abode ... the numerous servants and members of the court, the
magnificence of the nuptial splendour, and the generous gifts which
the emperor lavished on both his own people and on strangers.'[[12]]
We hear little of Agnes during Alexius' reign (24 September 1180 to
prior to 24 September 1183). It is highly unlikely that the match was
consummated, as it was customary to import imperial brides from
overseas at a young age to enable them to become acquainted with Greek
and with their future ceremonial duties; certainly it was unusual
under normal circumstances for Byzantine girls to marry before the age
of twelve. However, shortly before Alexius completed three years as
emperor, Manuel's first cousin Andronicus made himself co-emperor and
then usurped Alexius's position altogether, putting him out of the way
by having him throttled. Nicetas Choniates then, with morbid relish,
claims that Andronicus (who was born c. 1118 and was thus about 65
years of age) sexually exploited the eleven-year old princess.[[13]]
Despite the fact that his marriage to Anna, some fifty years his
junior, may well have been made for political reasons -- and
Andronicus had portraits of Mary of Antioch in the capital replaced
with ones of himself either alone or accompanied by his child-
bride[[14]]-- Choniates makes the most of the opportunity to ridicule
Andronicus, his age and the incongruity of the alliance ('the overripe
suitor embracing the unripe maiden, the dotard the damsel with pointed
breasts, the shriveled and languid old man the rosy-fingered girl
dripping with the dew of love').[[15]] According to Eustathius of
Thessalonica as well, the match was repugnant to her, as she regretted
Alexius' death and loathed Andronicus:[[16]] She was the young
daughter of the king of France, and as everybody knew hated the union
because she was full of intelligence; and after having experienced a
different kind of gentle loving, she loathed the roughness of
Andronicus. Sometimes, they say, she would imagine in her dreams that
she saw the young Alexius, and would cry out his name, and she alone
knew what she suffered.
Andronicus had previously indulged in many amorous and romantic
adventures (with Manuel's niece, Eudocia, daughter of Manuel's brother
Andronicus; with another niece, Theodora, daughter of Manuel's brother
Isaac and widow of Baldwin III of Jerusalem; and with Philippa of
Antioch, Manuel's sister-in-law). As emperor, despite his young bride,
he openly consorted with prostitutes and concubines, both in and out
of doors, and Choniates informs us that Andronicus sought to attain
both 'the sexual prowess of the cuttlefish', and that of Heracles with
the fifty-one daughters of Thyestes, resorting to ointments and other
aphrodisiac aids, such as regularly eating an (extremely repugnant)
animal similar to the crocodile, for this purpose.[[17]]
Nevertheless, Agnes' attitude towards Andronicus may have changed over
the following two years. When he was in turn ousted by Isaac II
Angelus (12 September 1185), and fled for his life in a boat towards
the direction of Russia, he took both Agnes, and the prostitute
Maraptike of whom he was rapturously enamoured, with him, along with a
few attendants.[[18]] However, contrary winds thwarted his plans to
escape, and he was brought back with Agnes and Maraptike to
Constantinople. In an attempt to persuade his captors on board ship to
release him, he sang a pathetic lament about his past life and present
calamity, in which the women joined, cleverly responding in song to
his lamentations.[[19]] However, his efforts were in vain and he
suffered a particularly horrible death in the Hippodrome.
We hear nothing of Agnes' life subsequent to the death of Andronicus
in Byzantine sources. However, nearly twenty years later, in 1203,
Robert of Clari states that the leaders of the Fourth Crusade found
her living in a palace married to a 'high man of the city', Theodore
Branas, who is first heard of in 1189 as commander of the Alans
(Georgian mercenaries) against Frederick Barbarossa's Germans.[[20]]
The Branas family was related to the Comneni and Angeli, and had
produced prominent military commanders from the eleventh century.
Theodore's mother was one of the daughters of Manuel's sister Eudocia
and Theodore Vatatzes, and thus a cousin of Alexius II. Theodore's
father, Alexius Branas, who had prevented the Normans from moving
against Constantinople in 1185, had revolted against Isaac II Angelus
shortly afterwards, perhaps in 1187. Alexius' head was cut off and
brought to Isaac in triumph, and Choniates praises the restraint of
the widow when shown the severed head and remarks that Manuel had
praised her as the 'flower of his family'. Theodore thereupon
inherited his father's opposition to Isaac II and was to support
Alexius III Angelus' successful rebellion against his brother Isaac in
1195.[[21]] Theodore was then to be employed by Alexius III against
the Turks and in 1199 was governor of Kouperion.[[22]]
It is unclear when Agnes married Branas, but a dowager empress was a
valuable prize and presumably the match took place at the instigation
of Isaac II to attempt to ensure the loyalty of the Branas family to
the current regime. Agnes received the barons of the Fourth Crusade as
befitted a Byzantine empress -- with bad grace, according to Robert,
and would talk only through an interpreter, pretending that she knew
no French.[[23]] She was now over thirty years of age and had, after
all, spent most of her life in the Byzantine capital and at the
Byzantine court. During the sack of the city she was to shelter in the
palace of Boucoleon along with the ex-empress Margaret-Maria of
Hungary and several other imperial women.[[24]] According to Geoffrey
of Villehardouin, however, Agnes' husband was the 'only' Greek who
sided with the crusaders, and he was well repaid by them for his
support. As a vassal of the Latin Empire, he was made lord of
Didymoteichon and Adrianople in Thrace, where Agnes apparently
accompanied him.[[25]] According to Aubry de Trois-Fontaines (s.v. AD
1205), she had a daughter who married Narjand de Toucy, cousin of Guy
de Dampierre. Agnes thereupon disappears from history but the Branas
family, including several notable Theodores, continued to accumulate
vast estates and intermarry with other noble families, including the
Palaeologue dynasty.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aishahage.htm
A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/thai_girl.htm
On May 21, 6:05 am, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.) wrote:
> In article
> <97c1e87b-185d-4774-a451-f45d64e1a...@8g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>, arah
> >-from-bible/
>
> >On May 20, 9:32=A0am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
> >> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> >> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
> >> > SAHIH MUSLIM
> >> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
> >> > SUNAN NASA I
> >> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
> >> > IBN HISHAM
> >> > AL-TABARI
> >> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
> >> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
> >> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>
> >> Dude, does it matter who wrote the truth? =A0It's still pretty fucking sick
> >> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. . That's just
> >> wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
>
> • Aisha was not quite 9-yrs old when she had coitus withe the "prophet".
>
> --
> Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734,www.somis.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> >On May 20, 9:32=A0am, "Laughing Muslim" <h...@there.com> wrote:
> >> "Amro" <amrom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:4a1263b6-d0a9-45d7...@s5g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> >> On May 19, 7:42 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
> >> > SAHIH MUSLIM
> >> > SUNAN ABU DAWUD
> >> > SUNAN NASA I
> >> > SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH
> >> > IBN HISHAM
> >> > AL-TABARI
> >> >All of the above are not of Arab origin (mostly
> >> >Persians & central Asians) who were born
> >> >around 200 years after Mohammad died.
>
> >> Dude, does it matter who wrote the truth? =A0It's still pretty fucking sick
> >> that mohammedd stuck his dick in a little nine year old girl. . That's just
> >> wrong no matter how you try to spin it.
>
> • Aisha was not quite 9-yrs old when she had coitus withe the "prophet".
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
May 25, 2012, 11:20:54 PM5/25/12
to
Sharia Law has led to the legislation of child marriage in 6 countries
Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because
Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all
By Roddy Newman
While Sharia law courts have created a lot of controversy in Britain,
they would be even more controversial if people found out that Sharia
has led to the legalisation of child marriage in 6 countries. As the
vast majority of people seem to be unaware of Sharia's child marriage
dimension, this article only uses mainstream media articles, the UN, a
major opinion poll company's Sharia law polling data, and the early
biographer of Mohammed who Muslims say is the most reliable, and who
states unequivocally that that Mohammed married one of his wives,
'Aisha, when she was a child as its sources.
For example, this 2008 "Times" article about forced child marriages in
Nigeria, reveals that there is "fierce resistance" in its mostly
Muslim states to a ban on child marriage, because they see such a ban
as contrary to Sharia, which is why only one of them has agreed to a
modified form of the ban (which outlaws marriage to pre-pubescent
girls):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5248224.ece
So why do Nigerian Islamists support child marriage?
Sharia is based on "The Koran", and the "Sunnah" (the words and deeds
of Mohammed), and according to Sahih al-Bukhari, who is regarded by
Muslims as the most reliable early biographer of their prophet, the
founder of Islam married one of his wives, 'Aisha, when she was 6, and
consummated that marriage when she was 9, as volume 7, book 62, number
64 of this University of Southern California Center for Muslim-Jewish
Engagement translation of Al-Bukhari reveals:
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/062-sbt.php
These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal"
articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say
that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of
child marriage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7711554.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75932
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903635604576472011907391364.html
The "Views of harsh punishments" section of this 2010 Pew Research
poll, revealed that most Muslims in Nigeria support 3 grotesque, and
extremely violent Sharia punishments (stoning adulterers to death,
cutting off the hands of thieves, and executing people who abandon
their Muslim faith), and that Muslims in Pakistan, Jordan, and Egypt
are even more strongly in favour of those 3 punishments, so it is not
surprising that, for the same obvious Sharia reason, grotesque child
marriages are legal in 4 other mostly Muslim nations, and were until
recently legal in another mostly Muslim country:
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Saudi Arabian law is based entirely on the harshest of the 3 Sunni
schools of Sharia jurisprudence (the "Hanbali"), so it is no surprise
that as this 2010 "San Francisco Chronicle" article explains, child
marriage is still legal in that country, although the Saudi justice
minister said in 2009 that the minimum marriage age should be raised
to 18:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/13/IN5D1CD71L.DTL
Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because
Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all, as this 2008
Associated Press article reveals:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26042107/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/
That article quotes Saudi marriage official Ahmad al-Muabi's opinion
that fathers can legally sell their 1 year old daughters to husbands
if they wish.
Moreover, once a Saudi girl or baby has been sold to a husband, she
can then find it difficult to divorce him, as the just cited "San
Francisco Chronicle" article pointed out that a Saudi court would not
allow an 8 year old girl to divorce her middle aged husband.
In another case which this BBC News story discusses, a 12 year old
Saudi girl asked for a divorce from the 80 year old husband she had
been sold to, after he allegedly raped her, but she then dropped the
divorce case, because her father wanted her to stay married:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493402.stm
Nor is it a surprise that in Islamist run Northern Sudan, 10 year old
girls can legally be sold to a husband by their fathers, as this 2010
"New Republic" magazine article shows:
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/78104/child-bride-in-sudan
People tend to think of Turkey as a relatively secular Muslim country,
but the "San Francisco Chronicle" article about Saudi Arabian child
marriage which I cited a moment ago, also mentions the fact that
Turkey's Islamist government reduced the minimum marriage to 12 in
2009. The result of that law change, was of course the legalisation of
forced child marriages, which is why this Turkish newspaper article
discusses the case of a Syrian 12 year old girl whose family sold her
to a middle aged Turkish husband, who then raped her and forced her to
take drugs, which led to Turkish police having to rescue her after her
Syrian family complained:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=12-year-old-bride-rescused-by-police-from-abuse-2010-03-17
There has also been controversy over child marriages in Yemen in
recent years, but because of Islamist opposition to outlawing them,
they are still legal, which is why a 2009 ban on them was overturned
after just 1 day:
http://www.yementimes.com/defaultdet.aspx?SUB_ID=33771
Yemen's child brides can be sold to men when they are as young as 8:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html?pagewanted=all
Moreover, in Iran, where the minimum marriage age is now 16 for women
and 18 for men, Sharia law recently led to the age of consent for
girls being 9 within marriage, as this 2006 BBC article about a 16
year old Iranian woman who was executed for having sex outside
marriage explains:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5217424.stm
Finally, even when child marriage is illegal in mostly Muslim
countries, Islamists often simply ignore the law. For example, child
marriage is illegal in Afghanistan, but this 2011 "Time" magazine
article about Afghan wives being jailed for fleeing violent husbands,
points out that, "Nationwide, more than half of all girls are married
before they turn 15, usually to settle disputes.":
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2039564,00.html
This "New York Times" article about Afghan child marriages discusses
an 11 year old girl who was sold to a 40 year old man:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/magazine/09BRI.html
So will Britain's Sharia courts lead to Britain's Islamists ignoring
British democratic law by selling young girls to men? After all, as
this 2011 article points out, polygamy, which like selling girls to
men is a product of an extremely male dominated Sharia culture in
which males have a far higher status than females, is already
widespread in Britain, despite the fact that polygamy is illegal under
British democratic law:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041244/Polygamy-Investigation-Muslim-men-exploit-UK-benefits-system.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Read more:
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/10/02/sharia-law-has-led-to-the-legislation-of-child-marriage-in-6-countries.html#ixzz1vwU5fw35
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/10/02/sharia-law-has-led-to-the-legislation-of-child-marriage-in-6-countries.html
Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because
Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all
By Roddy Newman
While Sharia law courts have created a lot of controversy in Britain,
they would be even more controversial if people found out that Sharia
has led to the legalisation of child marriage in 6 countries. As the
vast majority of people seem to be unaware of Sharia's child marriage
dimension, this article only uses mainstream media articles, the UN, a
major opinion poll company's Sharia law polling data, and the early
biographer of Mohammed who Muslims say is the most reliable, and who
states unequivocally that that Mohammed married one of his wives,
'Aisha, when she was a child as its sources.
For example, this 2008 "Times" article about forced child marriages in
Nigeria, reveals that there is "fierce resistance" in its mostly
Muslim states to a ban on child marriage, because they see such a ban
as contrary to Sharia, which is why only one of them has agreed to a
modified form of the ban (which outlaws marriage to pre-pubescent
girls):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5248224.ece
So why do Nigerian Islamists support child marriage?
Sharia is based on "The Koran", and the "Sunnah" (the words and deeds
of Mohammed), and according to Sahih al-Bukhari, who is regarded by
Muslims as the most reliable early biographer of their prophet, the
founder of Islam married one of his wives, 'Aisha, when she was 6, and
consummated that marriage when she was 9, as volume 7, book 62, number
64 of this University of Southern California Center for Muslim-Jewish
Engagement translation of Al-Bukhari reveals:
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/062-sbt.php
These 4 BBC News, "New York Times", UN, and "Wall Street Journal"
articles mention Islamists in Yemen, Niger, and Saudi Arabia who say
that Mohammed's child bride is the reason why they are in favour of
child marriage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7711554.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=75932
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903635604576472011907391364.html
The "Views of harsh punishments" section of this 2010 Pew Research
poll, revealed that most Muslims in Nigeria support 3 grotesque, and
extremely violent Sharia punishments (stoning adulterers to death,
cutting off the hands of thieves, and executing people who abandon
their Muslim faith), and that Muslims in Pakistan, Jordan, and Egypt
are even more strongly in favour of those 3 punishments, so it is not
surprising that, for the same obvious Sharia reason, grotesque child
marriages are legal in 4 other mostly Muslim nations, and were until
recently legal in another mostly Muslim country:
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
Saudi Arabian law is based entirely on the harshest of the 3 Sunni
schools of Sharia jurisprudence (the "Hanbali"), so it is no surprise
that as this 2010 "San Francisco Chronicle" article explains, child
marriage is still legal in that country, although the Saudi justice
minister said in 2009 that the minimum marriage age should be raised
to 18:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/13/IN5D1CD71L.DTL
Saudi wives can be not only pre-pubescent, but even babies, because
Saudi Arabia has no minimum marriage age at all, as this 2008
Associated Press article reveals:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26042107/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/
That article quotes Saudi marriage official Ahmad al-Muabi's opinion
that fathers can legally sell their 1 year old daughters to husbands
if they wish.
Moreover, once a Saudi girl or baby has been sold to a husband, she
can then find it difficult to divorce him, as the just cited "San
Francisco Chronicle" article pointed out that a Saudi court would not
allow an 8 year old girl to divorce her middle aged husband.
In another case which this BBC News story discusses, a 12 year old
Saudi girl asked for a divorce from the 80 year old husband she had
been sold to, after he allegedly raped her, but she then dropped the
divorce case, because her father wanted her to stay married:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493402.stm
Nor is it a surprise that in Islamist run Northern Sudan, 10 year old
girls can legally be sold to a husband by their fathers, as this 2010
"New Republic" magazine article shows:
http://www.tnr.com/article/world/78104/child-bride-in-sudan
People tend to think of Turkey as a relatively secular Muslim country,
but the "San Francisco Chronicle" article about Saudi Arabian child
marriage which I cited a moment ago, also mentions the fact that
Turkey's Islamist government reduced the minimum marriage to 12 in
2009. The result of that law change, was of course the legalisation of
forced child marriages, which is why this Turkish newspaper article
discusses the case of a Syrian 12 year old girl whose family sold her
to a middle aged Turkish husband, who then raped her and forced her to
take drugs, which led to Turkish police having to rescue her after her
Syrian family complained:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=12-year-old-bride-rescused-by-police-from-abuse-2010-03-17
There has also been controversy over child marriages in Yemen in
recent years, but because of Islamist opposition to outlawing them,
they are still legal, which is why a 2009 ban on them was overturned
after just 1 day:
http://www.yementimes.com/defaultdet.aspx?SUB_ID=33771
Yemen's child brides can be sold to men when they are as young as 8:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/world/middleeast/29marriage.html?pagewanted=all
Moreover, in Iran, where the minimum marriage age is now 16 for women
and 18 for men, Sharia law recently led to the age of consent for
girls being 9 within marriage, as this 2006 BBC article about a 16
year old Iranian woman who was executed for having sex outside
marriage explains:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5217424.stm
Finally, even when child marriage is illegal in mostly Muslim
countries, Islamists often simply ignore the law. For example, child
marriage is illegal in Afghanistan, but this 2011 "Time" magazine
article about Afghan wives being jailed for fleeing violent husbands,
points out that, "Nationwide, more than half of all girls are married
before they turn 15, usually to settle disputes.":
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2039564,00.html
This "New York Times" article about Afghan child marriages discusses
an 11 year old girl who was sold to a 40 year old man:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/magazine/09BRI.html
So will Britain's Sharia courts lead to Britain's Islamists ignoring
British democratic law by selling young girls to men? After all, as
this 2011 article points out, polygamy, which like selling girls to
men is a product of an extremely male dominated Sharia culture in
which males have a far higher status than females, is already
widespread in Britain, despite the fact that polygamy is illegal under
British democratic law:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041244/Polygamy-Investigation-Muslim-men-exploit-UK-benefits-system.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
Read more:
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/10/02/sharia-law-has-led-to-the-legislation-of-child-marriage-in-6-countries.html#ixzz1vwU5fw35
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/10/02/sharia-law-has-led-to-the-legislation-of-child-marriage-in-6-countries.html
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