What is the difference between Lutheran & Non-denominational?
LILHD
just curious about why there are so many christian denominations and
what the differences in belief are.
--
LILHD
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Michael
have rejected at least part of the teachings of the Bible. For example, the
"Reformed" churches deny the physical presence of the body and blood of
Christ in Holy Communion. The "Baptists" deny regenerative baptism and
therefore do not baptize infants. Yet others add additional teachings that
are not found in, and often contradict, the Bible. For example, Rome's
theology is based around works and includes concepts such as purgatory,
merits of the saints, supererogation, etc. that are no where found in the
Bible.
What makes "confessional Lutheran" churches unique is that, by God's grace,
they accept only the Bible, and all of the Bible, as God's inerrant Word and
the sole norm for doctrince. Unfortunately, "confessional Lutheran" is not
the same as "Lutheran", and even in Lutheranism there are growing numbers
who have rejected the Word of God (e.g. the ELCA which pays for the
abortions of their female "pastors", which ordains females and homosexuals
as "pastors", which does not practice close communion, etc.). Hence, not
only are there a lot of Christian denominations, there are also a lot of
"Lutheran" denominations.
Christ's blessings to you!
Michael
"LILHD" <LILHD...@Christianlinks.com> wrote in message
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Toby Rider
> The ELCA which pays for the abortions of their female "pastors",
which ordains females and homosexuals
> as "pastors", which does not practice close communion, etc.).
What?? Did the ELCA actually paid for an abortion??? That's almost
beyond belief! (Not that I'm saying I don't believe you). Do you have an
article that talks when this happened?
Michael
workers. This is mentioned in the LCMS document titled "The Difference
Between the ELCA and the LCMS" among other sources.
Michael
"Toby Rider" <tarider@nospam_blackmill.net> wrote in message
news:bk8qsk$qe1$1...@gladiola.noc.ucla.edu...
TheReaver
Hey let's get back to the thread. I agree with the first reply in the
beliefs behind communion. That is one of the most basic reasons behind
the seperate branches of Christianity. There are others but this above
the rest stand out in many minds as the main one.
--
TheReaver
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Sharon Engstrom
As a unhappy member of the ELCA when they voted to belong to Call To
Common Mission,( uniting with the Episcopalian Church), I have never
heard or read were the church has paid for a abortion for a women
pastor. I do not think that is true. But I do agree with the
ordanation of Gays. This is not the way Christ wants this. It says in
the Bible that homosexual acts are a sin. "We should love the sinner
but hate the sin". Our church does no longer pay our snyod dues to the
ELCA. We are now paying to Word Alone.
--
Sharon Engstrom
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A Mighty Fortress
> As a unhappy member of the ELCA when they voted to belong to Call To
> Common Mission,( uniting with the Episcopalian Church), I have never
> heard or read were the church has paid for a abortion for a women
> pastor. I do not think that is true.
Actually it is true. It is an option on the ELCA insurance plan. The
pastor has to opt for it to receive that portion of the insurance.
But I do agree with the
> ordanation of Gays. This is not the way Christ wants this. It says in
> the Bible that homosexual acts are a sin. "We should love the sinner
> but hate the sin". Our church does no longer pay our snyod dues to the
> ELCA. We are now paying to Word Alone.
Word alone? Interesting. That is a non-official teaming of some ELCA
and LCMS pastors.
Todd R Jerabek
succession. I was involved with them while in Connecticut till I got fed up
with them. There is still some incredible Higher Critical thinking going on
in the that group. They have a problem with the Episcopal idea of Apostolic
succession, but it's OK to believe that Jesus was a woman, born from the
union of Mary with an itinerant Roman soldier.
Word Alone? I don't think so.
But, that was just some of the stuff flying around the group where I was in
CT.
Peace of the Lord be with you.
Todd
grace635
Christians justified by faith commune together? What is the purpose of
closed communion, and where is it to be found in the Bible?
"Michael" <mic...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MwO9b.63$kH2.14...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Miss Anne Thrope
officially switched teams, and is now supporting the Moonies.
Toranut97
communion to you. I think it is basically a mater of good order.
The ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America) has an "open communion"
policy and welcomes the baptized (and instructed) to the table, regardless
of denomination.
Donna
"grace635" <grac...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Cnadb.24652$jO....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
kami
Toranut97 wrote:
> I believe our Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod folks will explain
> closed communion to you. I think it is basically a mater of good
> order.
Basically, Communion is just for the individual...but also within the
unity of believers. There is no unity among a Christian who believes in
the "Real Presence" (the body and blood of Christ are present under the
bread and the wine) while another believes that the bread and wine
changes into body and blood of Christ to be an "unbloodied sacrifice",
while another who holds communion is a symbolc act (as opposed to being
a sacrament through which God works).
Also, the alter one communes at, that individual is stating by his/her
actions that they profess the teachings of that church. Obviously it's
something that cannot be done in good conscience when a Lutheran who
believes in the Real Presence and infant baptism is offered communion at
a church who believes that communion is a symbolic act and that children
shouldn't be baptized because the Holy Spirit cannot work faith within
them because baptism too is not a sacrament.
Found on the LCMS website within their FAQ:
---
www.lcms.org/cic/communion.html
The LCMS believes that Scripture teaches that the Lord's Supper is a
precious gift of God in which Christ gives us His true body and blood
(in a miraculous way), together with the bread and wine, for the
forgiveness of our sins and the strengthening of our faith. Because the
Bible teaches that this sacrament may also be spiritually harmful if
misused, the LCMS ordinarily communes only those who have been
instructed in the teachings of our church and who have confessed their
faith in these teachings.
---
www.lcms.org/president/statements/afcc.asp
Office of the President Home | Statements Home
LCMSLCMS Cross LogoOffice of the President
horizontal rule
A Statement of The Praesidium of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
A Reaffirmation of the Synod's Position on Close(d) Communion 21 August 1996
Distributed with the 1995 LCMS Convention Resolution 3-08 regarding
Close(d) Communion
We, the members of the Praesidium of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod,
wish to express our joy in the fellowship the members of the Synod enjoy
with one another in the true faith. We thank God for this blessing. We
treasure the wonderful opportunities God gives our Synod to reach out to
the world with the Gospel, bearing witness to the truths of God's Word,
in a bold confession of our Lutheran faith. We recognize as part of this
opportunity the responsibility to administer the Sacrament of the Altar
in a faithful manner, being mindful of the need for careful instruction
to those who desire to commune at the Lord's table. In accord with the
Scriptures' and the Confessions' teaching about the Lord's Supper, and
the nature and basis of church fellowship, our Synod continues to
reaffirm the historic, confessional church practice of close(d) communion.
We are keenly aware that our Synod faces a critical moment in the
history of the Lutheran church in America. Decisions are being
contemplated by other churches to enter into eucharistic fellowship with
one another, without the resolution of the long standing and critical
differences that divide the Reformed and Lutheran churches. This is a
time for our Synod to affirm boldly the great truths of our Lutheran
confession and to offer an alternative to an increasingly pluralistic
and secularized view of the Christian faith. Rather than being caught up
in the times in which we live, we as a Synod are able to offer a unique
and faithful Lutheran witness to those struggling with questions about
truth and the meaning of what it is to be a Lutheran church in our world
today. Rather than conforming to the spirit of our age, we have before
us the opportunity for faithful confession and catechesis.
We recognize the pastoral responsibility the church has not merely to
accept minimalistic concessions to ill-defined and un- examined
confessions of the faith, but instead to lead people into the truth of
the Scriptures, so that they may enjoy the fellowship of the church as
it gathers at the altar to receive her Lord's body and blood in the
Sacrament of the Altar.
Because of our great respect for our Synod's fellowship in the Faith,
and because of the opportunities which are presenting themselves to us
to be and remain a strong, confessional Lutheran church in this country,
and a voice for genuine confessional Lutheranism around the world, we
must express our fraternal concern with the document, "A Declaration of
Eucharistic Understanding and Practice." We regret the fact that some
members of our synodical family have persisted in their public advocacy
of an erroneous position in regard to close(d) communion. Sadly, they
have done this in spite of the fraternal, pastoral and faithful
admonition of our Synod's president, and of our Synod's district
presidents, who have counseled with them about this situation.
Therefore, we affirm and commend to our Synod, the pastoral application
of the faithful and evangelical resolution adopted by our Synod in
convention last summer reaffirming our Synod's scriptural position on
close(d) communion, Resolution 3-08. We ask that all members of the
Synod, both church workers and congregations, receive, respect and
conform their practice to this resolution. We, as the Praesidium of The
Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod, commit ourselves to its implementation
among our fellowship and support our district presidents as they do the
same. We recognize that it is the responsibility of the district
presidents to maintain the integrity of our fellowship in our faith as
they correct and reprove error in the discharge of the duties of their
office. We offer our fraternal encouragement to them as they carry out
their duty of doctrinal supervision in this matter.
We pray for God's continued blessing on our Synod. May He keep us ever
steadfast and faithful, for the sake of our stewardship of the Gospel of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Praesidium of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Adopted August 21, 1996
To Reaffirm the Practice of Close[d] Communion
RESOLUTION 3-0
Adopted by The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
July 1995 Convention
Preamble
Our teaching and practice of the Lord's Supper begin with the clear
words of our Lord Jesus Christ Himself regarding His gift in the Supper:
"This is My body, given for you." "This cup is My blood of the new
testament, shed for you for the forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:26-29;
Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-20; 1 Cor. 11:17-29). Therefore we believe,
teach and confess that the Lord Himself gives to each communicant His
very body and His true blood in, with and under the forms of bread and
wine for the forgiveness of sins (Real Presence-AC X, XXIV; Ap XIII,
XXIV; SC VI; LC V; FC VII, Ep and SD). This "Real Presence" is not
simply a general presence of Christ in the Supper, but refers to the
fact that Christ's true body and blood are truly present in the
consecrated bread and wine and received in the mouths of the
communicants (1 Cor. 10:16). The presence of Christ's true body and
blood does not depend on the faith of the recipient nor on the character
of the one administering the Sacrament, but on the Word of Christ
Himself, whose last will and testament the Supper is. By the power of
His own Word He gives His body and blood (FC VII, Ep & SD). Though all
communicants receive the body and blood in the bread and wine, only
those who believe Christ's Word of promise regarding the Supper receive
its benefits, namely, the forgiveness of sins. "He who believes these
words has what they say and declare, namely, the forgiveness of sins."
(SC VI, Tappert, p. 352; See also AC XIII). In other words, the Lord has
provided His Supper for sinners who believe His promise: "This is my
body. This cup is my blood of the new testament shed for you for the
forgiveness of sins." Accordingly, the Sacrament is more than a simple
assurance of grace. Rather, the body and blood of our Lord in the bread
and wine are gifts by which our Lord Himself offers, gives and seals to
us the forgiveness of sins.
A responsible Lutheran practice surrounding the Lord's Supper will take
into account the fact that the Supper is also an expression of the
oneness of the congregation in Christ and in His Gospel. "For as often
as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death
until He comes" (1 Cor. 11:26 RSV). One who eats and drinks at an altar
confesses what is taught from that altar (1 Cor. 10:21). Each
communicant is called on to examine himself before God (1 Cor. 11:28),
to avoid creating divisions within the assembly (1 Cor. 11:17ff), and to
hold no malice toward fellow communicants (Matt. 5:23-24). In addition,
those who commune without discerning the body of the Lord or faith in
Christ's promise eat and drink judgment on themselves (1 Cor. 11:29).
They are guilty of profaning, not bread and wine, but the body and blood
of the Lord (1 Cor. 11:27). This is why the Confessions of our church
assume a careful pastoral practice in connection with the Lord's Supper:
"The custom has been retained among us of not administering the
sacrament to those who have not previously been examined and absolved."
(AC XXV, Tappert, p. 61).
Our desire to honor and obey the Word of Christ leads us in our pastoral
practice to reserve the Sacrament for those who share this desire and
confession. Since fellowship at the Lord's Table is a confession of
faith in the Lord's promises professed at our altar, it would not be
truthful for those who affirm Christ's gift of His body and blood in the
bread and wine and those who deny it to join one another at the table.
The last will and testament of Christ cannot be interpreted in
contradictory ways. Pastors are called by God through the congregation
to be faithful "stewards of the mysteries" (1 Cor. 4: 1-2), that is,
faithfully to administer the Sacrament according to the Lord's
institution. Love also requires that pastors and congregations keep from
the Lord's Table those who by their profession (or lack of it) show that
they could be eating and drinking judgment upon themselves (1 Cor.
11:27). As part of this practice the pastor will seek to prevent a
profession of confessional unity in the faith where there is, in fact,
disunity and disagreement.
---
Kami
SS
"... even in Lutheranism there are growing numbers who have rejected the
Word of God (e.g. the ELCA which pays for the abortions of their female
"pastors", which ordains females and homosexuals as "pastors", which does
not practice close communion, etc.)."
"grace635" <grac...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Cnadb.24652$jO....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Scott
"SS" <crus...@klondyke.net> wrote in message
news:UYKdnV9R57Z...@comcast.com...
> Michael, where did you find this information?:
>
> "... even in Lutheranism there are growing numbers who have rejected the
> Word of God (e.g. the ELCA which pays for the abortions of their female
> "pastors", which ordains females and homosexuals as "pastors", which does
> not practice close communion, etc.)."
In all fairness to the ELCA (of which I am NOT a member), I do not believe
they have started to ordain homosexuals. Yet. My understanding is that
they
are discussing/debating the issue and that it is expected to be brought up
at their
next convention.
Also, while their health policy DOES provide coverage for abortions for
their pastors, I have yet
to see any evidence where it has actually been done.
We need to try and stick to the facts as much as we can.
Lisa S.
eight lcms church for communion, by your presence you are saying that you
agree with everything that is believed, taught, and confessed by that
church.
My information may be flawed, but I think that this is true in the Roman
Catholic Church. I would not be Welcome at their altar until I had been
properly taught...
--
Lisa S.
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"grace635" <grac...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Cnadb.24652$jO....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
James
>
>just curious about why there are so many christian denominations and
>what the differences in belief are.
Hello,
The Bible says that there is only one true faith (religion). Eph 4:5,
"one Lord, one faith, one baptism;" (NIV)
Thus all the rest have to be false. The Bible even predicted that many
false religions would exist. For example the apostle Peter said at 2
Pe 2:1,3,
"1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there
will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce
destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought
them--bringing swift destruction on themselves. 3 In their greed these
teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their
condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction
has not been sleeping." (NIV)
What are some of their beliefs? The above scripture mentions that they
will "exploit you with stories they have made up". Thus if we compare
those "stories" to the Bible, we can see where they are false.
The disciple Timothy mentions two more at 1 Ti 4:1-3,
"1. Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will
turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and
demonic instructions
2. through the hypocrisy of liars with branded consciences.
3. They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God
created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know
the truth." (NAB)
Thus any religion which forbids marriage and/or requires abstinence
from certain foods, is another false religion which promotes "demonic
instructions" rather than the word of God.
Thus what a person needs to do who might be in those false religions,
is to follow the inspired example of the ancient Bereans. Ac 17:11,
"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians,
for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the
Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)
Yes, verify in the Bible, any religious teachings they promote. This
can expose a lot of those "demonic instructions" out there.
I hope the above Bible verses have helped somewhat to answer your
questions.
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the only authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
Fred Goodwin, CMA
the text of the message itself is, despite the specificity of the subject
line) in several different denomination-specific NGs, like Baptist and
Episcopal.
"LILHD" <LILHD...@Christianlinks.com> wrote in message
news:LILHD...@Christianlinks.com...
>
Senator Palpatine
http://www.elca.org/dcs/elca_actions/cc97_4_31.html
Abortion
Church Council Action CC97.4.31
To adopt the amendment to the ELCA Medical and Dental Benefits Plan
printed in Agenda/MINUTES Exhibit J, Part 1b, which would exclude
coverage of late-term abortions, except when the life of the mother is
threatened or when the fetus has lethal fetal abnormalities indicating
that death is imminent.
and their wishy-washy statement on abortion also.
http://www.elca.org/dcs/abortion.html
Sharon Engstrom <Sharon.Eng...@Christianlinks.com> wrote in message news:<Sharon.Eng...@Christianlinks.com>...
Nancy Fidler
lies.....
"Senator Palpatine" <darth_s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e7783ac8.03100...@posting.google.com...