The Holy Christian Orthodox Church
Steve Hayes
I have been asked to produce a report on this body for the Holy Synod of the
Patriarchate of Alexandria, which meets on 16 September. Their bishop, Timothy
Bernard Baymon Paul, wrote to the Pope asking to be received into the Orthodox
Church, and I was asked to find out more about them.
When I wrote to ask for more information, I was referred to their web page,
which is not very informative:
http://www.holychristianorthodoxchurch.org
Their bishop appears to be a typical episcopus vagans (details of apostolic
succesion going back to all three of the main episcopi vagantes - Mathew,
Ferrette and Vilatte).
I have asked for details of the history of their church, and especially of the
15 parishes they claim in Africa, so that we can visit their services and see
how Orthodox their worship is, and meet some of their leaders and see how they
understand Orthodoxy.
The bishop has been consistently evasive, and avoided giving any concrete
information, so in my report I shall probably say that the application is not
sincere, and that they are simply looking for another spurious endorsement to
put on their "apostolic succession" web page (they already have a letter from
the Ecumenical Patriarch, congratulating the bishop on his consecration as
bishop of the Old Catholic Church).
But if anyone does have any specific information about them, I would be
interested in hearing it.
--
The unworthy servant of God,
Stephen Methodius Hayes
Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
Orthodox mission pages: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/
Infowolf1
>I have been asked to produce a report on this body for the Holy Synod of the
>Patriarchate of Alexandria, which meets on 16 September. Their bishop,
>Timothy
>Bernard Baymon Paul, wrote to the Pope asking to be received into the
>Orthodox
>Church,
HUH?! What does the Pope have to do with Orthodoxy? are you
joking or what?
>Their bishop appears to be a typical episcopus vagans (details of apostolic
>succesion going back to all three of the main episcopi vagantes - Mathew,
>Ferrette and Vilatte).
I think you have answered your own question. If you want to
know anything more about this whole scene, go look up
"OTO Phenomenon" and Koenig on Google, and in his
collection of articles linked you will find a discussion of this
sort of people.
The mention of Vilatte got my attention - I do not think this
succession exists outside of heretical and sex cultism (incl
homoseuxla in the higher grades) groups.
the lines of succession that such have descend from a couple
of deceptions to get an ordination in a legitimate lineage, which
as one British autocephalic group pointed out, can be construed as
invalid because given the deception the intent was imperfect,
etc.
If the name "Aleister Crowley" means anything to you,
then you have an idea what is this is really all about.
++
Their free webpage immediately brings up a gambling website. In fact, ev ery
succeeding page in their webpages brings up another annoying irrelevant webpage.
They list their church's main "cathedral" at: The Grand Cathedral of Christ , 207
Main Street, Indian Orchard, Massachusetts 01151
I wonder how far this is from the following other church in Indian Orchard,
Massachusetts? Maybe the pastor of this one can tell us?:
Church Name:
Address: Evangelical Covenant Church of Indian Orchard
95 Berkshire Street
Indian Orchard, MA 01151-1440
Pastor: Rev. Donald C. Olson
Phone Number:(413) 543-4204
Fax Number: (413) 543-4204
E-Mail Address: EC...@juno.com
A look at the map for the small town reveals that Rev. Olsen's church is a mere
two 1/2 blocks walking distance from the headquarters for this worldwide Orthodox
religion:
[map]
Steve Hayes wrote:
> Does anyone have any knowledge of the Holy Christian Orthodox Church?
>
> I have been asked to produce a report on this body for the Holy Synod of the
> Patriarchate of Alexandria, which meets on 16 September. Their bishop, Timothy
> Bernard Baymon Paul, wrote to the Pope asking to be received into the Orthodox
> Church, and I was asked to find out more about them.
>
> When I wrote to ask for more information, I was referred to their web page,
> which is not very informative:
>
> http://www.holychristianorthodoxchurch.org
>
> Their bishop appears to be a typical episcopus vagans (details of apostolic
> succesion going back to all three of the main episcopi vagantes - Mathew,
> Ferrette and Vilatte).
>
> I have asked for details of the history of their church, and especially of the
> 15 parishes they claim in Africa, so that we can visit their services and see
> how Orthodox their worship is, and meet some of their leaders and see how they
> understand Orthodoxy.
>
> The bishop has been consistently evasive, and avoided giving any concrete
> information, so in my report I shall probably say that the application is not
> sincere, and that they are simply looking for another spurious endorsement to
> put on their "apostolic succession" web page (they already have a letter from
> the Ecumenical Patriarch, congratulating the bishop on his consecration as
> bishop of the Old Catholic Church).
He belongs to something pretending to represent 45 million chirstians or some
such, the World Bishop's Conference. On the same:
Who Are the World Council of Bishops OR World Bishops
Council?
Simply put, according to recent reports, the group is a front for Sun Myun Moon.
It has been
alleged and/or reported that Stallings was married in a moonie mass wedding.
Further allegations claim that the WBC was formed a couple of years ago and anyone
could join
for 50 bucks. They had a major meeting in New York last year and I wondered where
all of a
sudden the money had come from. Then the Moon connection rose to the light of
day.
Anytime he is questioned about this little fact, he shuts up and evades the
question.
World Council of Bishops is now alleged to be a part of the World Council of
Churches.
However, in a recent development, they desire to establish a World Federation of
Churches.
They were sent on June 10, 2002, an e-mail in which they were warned of a
potential law suit
because the name "Federation of Churches" is copyrighted and that the copyright
holder does
not subscribe to their ecumenistic heresies.
It is the opinion of several true Orthodox Catholic Clergy, that their (World
Council of Bishops)
claim of "Due to the enormous increase of many carrying the title of bishop, the
WBC has been
established to preserve the integrity of the bishopric. Members of the council are
in the true
meaning "Valid Bishops" working together for the support of the true faith," is a
misnomer of
understanding the true Orthodox Catholic Christian faith in spirit and truth as
they "validate" only
http://www.apostle1.com/World_Bishops_Council-1.htm
Their webpage mentions that their bishop TIMOTHY BERNARD BAYMON-PAUL was made
bishop on August 7, 1999 by someone himself consecrated by a breakaway "Old
Catholic" church derived from THE PRINCE BISHOP F. DE LANDES BURGHES ET DE RACHE,
Prince and Duke of Austria, who consecrated on June 29, 1913 a fellow named HENRY
CARMEL CARFORA who was ALSO previously consecrated a bishop by PAOLO MIRAGLIA
GULOTTI, on May 6, 1900. Earl Anglin James, consecrated bishop by this guy and
successively consecrating forbears of Baymon-Paul was ALSO consecrated bishop by
one HUGH GEORGE DE WILLMOTT NEWMAN , possibly a Domenican??? and some other double
consecrations occurred so that this astounding self made church can claim to be a
number of religions.http://www.holychristianorthodoxchurch.org/custom2.html
>
>
> But if anyone does have any specific information about them, I would be
> interested in hearing it.
>
> --
> The unworthy servant of God,
> Stephen Methodius Hayes
> Web: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/steve.htm
> Orthodox mission pages: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/
Bishop's email? paul...@aol.com
What kind of church has a primary email at Aol? The kind that claims to be a
number of religions and have a number of addresses. See the following for Mr.
Paul at http://archbishops.org/anglicana2.htm
+Most Rev'd Timothy Baymon Paul, Western Rite Orthodox Catholic Church, P.O.Box
2302, Springfield,
MA 01101-2302. Cathedral Tel : 413.543.6094. Pax et Bonum.
E-mail: Bishop...@cs.com
And what, one may ask, is this archbishop's organization that listed his address?
Why, it has sainted the Princess Diana!:
Another webpage, http://www.ind-movement.org/people_ba_bd.html , suggests that
his church is incorporated in Maryland, oddly enough. Address in this one lists
207 Main St. , Indian Orchard, MA 00151-1107, telephone 413-543-6094 and his name
as Timothy Paul Baymon. Here he is listed with four email addresses:
paul...@aol.com
vze2...@verizon.net
:vze2...@verizon.net
and as having an additional webpage:
http://www.worldbishopscouncil.faithweb.com
of which the dude is President. Here is its whole council:
http://www.worldbishopscouncil.faithweb.com/photo.html
And has articles on the infamous Spong:
http://archbishops.org/spong.htm
and about a transexual contender :
http://archbishops.org/sexchange.htm
P.S. I have outed this organization before.
Doocumentation of the dude as a Moonie is here:
http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/sunmyungmoon01/SM010508-Invite.pdf
and he was given an award by the Moonies which can be accessed at:
http://www.tparents.org/UNews/unws0103/50-Tour-MA.htm
Here he is listed as supporting Mr. Moon:
http://www.wewillstand.org/together.html
He also runs something known as Praise and Glory ministries. Here is his choir
director:
http://www.churchline.com/mediapeople/Jade/
And here is the main page of that webpage:
lists mostly protestant churches. But this is the guy noted for giving Moon an
award of his own.
Galina
Steve Hayes
>>
>>I have been asked to produce a report on this body for the Holy Synod of the
>>Patriarchate of Alexandria, which meets on 16 September. Their bishop,
>>Timothy
>>Bernard Baymon Paul, wrote to the Pope asking to be received into the
>>Orthodox
>>Church,
>
>
>HUH?! What does the Pope have to do with Orthodoxy? are you
>joking or what?
He's the head of the ancent Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
This is an Orthodox newsgroup, so when I refer to "the Pope", I mean the
Orthodox pope.
>>Their bishop appears to be a typical episcopus vagans (details of apostolic
>>succesion going back to all three of the main episcopi vagantes - Mathew,
>>Ferrette and Vilatte).
>
>I think you have answered your own question. If you want to
>know anything more about this whole scene, go look up
>"OTO Phenomenon" and Koenig on Google, and in his
>collection of articles linked you will find a discussion of this
>sort of people.
I was lokking for specific information on this particular group, not general
speculations about "this sort of people".
>The mention of Vilatte got my attention - I do not think this
>succession exists outside of heretical and sex cultism (incl
>homoseuxla in the higher grades) groups.
>
>the lines of succession that such have descend from a couple
>of deceptions to get an ordination in a legitimate lineage, which
>as one British autocephalic group pointed out, can be construed as
>invalid because given the deception the intent was imperfect,
>etc.
>
>If the name "Aleister Crowley" means anything to you,
>then you have an idea what is this is really all about.
As far as I am aware, Aleister Crowley never wrote to an Orthodox Patriarch
asking for his group to be received into the Orthodox Church.
David Telhiard
wrote:
>Does anyone have any knowledge of the Holy Christian Orthodox Church?
I did an exact phrase search with google and from what I read it
seems you have a long row to hoe. Apparently no one knows where they
came from. Sorry I couldn't be of more help?
http://members.cox.net/davidt3/home.html
++
More on their bishop:
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/journal/sj091699.htm
Resolutions.
The following resolutions (having been filed with the Clerk) were severally considered
forthwith and adopted, as follows:
...Resolutions (filed by Ms. Melconian) "on the ordination of Timothy Baymon as Bishop
of the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht";...
Note from Galina: Linda Melconian is the majority leader of the Massachusetts Senate.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
One very amusing fact is that "Archbishop" Baymon was ordained by Carl "Allen"
Jimenez who lists himself in the www.archbishops org as Most Reverend Carl Allen
Jimenez, Old Catholic Church of Utrecht (Mathew Succession),
103 Brunswick Ct., New Orleans, LA 70131-0000. Tel: 504.433.5912. ...
But the same Carl Allen Jimenez of New Orleans is also notorious for his activism as a
gay veteran:
http://www.gayveterans.com/rollcall/army/
It lists the address of its newly renamed jurisdiction as :
Contact Information:
Holy Christian Orthodox Church
584 Myrtle Avenue
Suite 200
Brooklyn, New York 11205
718.622.2442
Attn. General Secretary
584 Myrtle Avenue is hte address of an upscale Nigerian fashion shop:
584 Myrtle Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11205
N.Y.C: (718) 260-9416
Fax: (718) 260-9431
but this would be upstairs and has a different telephone number Information more
coincides with the following:
.
On this page you will be able to send a donation to Crisis Ministries by using a
credit card, or a direct deposit to the Crisis Ministries account. If you prefer to
send a donation in the mail, you may send it to:
World Bishops Council
584 Myrtle Avenue
Brooklyn, New York , 11205
Memo: Crisis Ministries
OR You may use the form below to indicate the amount you would like to donate.
http://www.crisisministries.org/donations.htm
From this webpage , one can take a look at some cute concelebration photos featuring,
maybe, our fave Archbishop from Massachusetts:
http://www.crisisministries.org/photos.htm
Inexplicably, this group's contact is a Reverend Joseph, appropriately available at
hotmail:
Who is this Reverend Joseph? Well he has a job search bit online:
http://www.pastornet.com/_peopleseeking/0000000b.htm
Interim Pastor
From: Joseph Miller
Date: 5/28/2002
Time: 9:58:21 AM
Remote Name: 192.168.3.153
Comments
phone: 716-316-4208 email: revj...@crisisministries.org weburl:
www.crisisministries.org
Comments I seek a interim position,this will allow me to continue my Disaster Relief
Ministry.Please contact by e-mail.
716 area code is in Freedonia, NY (upstate, near Rochester)
And revjoseph@hotmail had a webpage as well, but it is fro hotmail in Germany and
defunct:
And the group's sponsor is, yes you guessed it, :
http://www.worldbishopscouncil.faithweb.com/
along with
which features a certian Theresa: the...@testimonies4u.com
The beauty of these kind of websites is that they sound ALMOST like something else.
For example, the World Bishops Council sounds awfully like the World Council of
Bishops, etc.
Infowolf1
>>HUH?! What does the Pope have to do with Orthodoxy? are you
>>joking or what?
>
>He's the head of the ancent Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
I never heard before now that the term "pope" was applied to
any bishop but that of Rome. Perhaps I am ignorant.
>I was lokking for specific information on this particular group, not general
>speculations about "this sort of people".
Well, the preceding post in this thread would seem to support
what I was saying - that you can expect to find severe irregularities
worth rejecting them for, when they claim this kind of succession.
>As far as I am aware, Aleister Crowley never wrote to an Orthodox Patriarch
>asking for his group to be received into the Orthodox Church.
My point was, that there is a big connection between him
and a lot of this wandering bishop and gnostic sects disguised
as orthodox by using orthodox style type of phenomena.
Being forearmed with what to look for, you can spot it if its
there easily. I am sorry if I was not more clear in my statements,
I am used to doing research on some pretty wierd stuff.
This particular group I haven't heard of, but I might have forgotten it
if it was named in any list in any of Koenig's papers.
Crowley claimed an ordination in some line of succession that exists
mostly probably only in heretical and often depraved organizations.
Evan
news:20020823044800...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> >>
> I never heard before now that the term "pope" was applied to
> any bishop but that of Rome. Perhaps I am ignorant.
There is also the Coptic Pope.
Evan
--
use kal...@lycos.com for communication, the address in the header is a spam
trap
K
"Evan" <ekal...@nowhere.com> wrote
> "Infowolf1" <info...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020823044800...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> > >>
> > I never heard before now that the term "pope" was applied to
> > any bishop but that of Rome. Perhaps I am ignorant.
>
> There is also the Coptic Pope.
>
> Evan
Additionally, the title of bishop of Alexandria has been "pope" from
early times. Of course the Coptic pope is the "rival", parallel,
non-Chalcedonian bishop to the Chalcedonian Orthodox bishop/pope of
Alexandria. Both sees claim lineage from St. Mark.
Alexandria was the primary seat of Orthodox theological activity and
leadership in the early church having notable theologian popes St.
Athanasios and St. Cyril.
--
Kosta
www.cactus48.com
ma...@frog-net.com
to a patriarch. Because of the latin heritage in north africa the use of
pope remains in use.
Steve Hayes
>>>
>>>HUH?! What does the Pope have to do with Orthodoxy? are you
>>>joking or what?
>>
>>He's the head of the ancent Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
>
>I never heard before now that the term "pope" was applied to
>any bishop but that of Rome. Perhaps I am ignorant.
The Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria used the title quite a long time before
the bishop of Rome did.
>>I was lokking for specific information on this particular group, not general
>>speculations about "this sort of people".
>
>Well, the preceding post in this thread would seem to support
>what I was saying - that you can expect to find severe irregularities
>worth rejecting them for, when they claim this kind of succession.
>
>>As far as I am aware, Aleister Crowley never wrote to an Orthodox Patriarch
>>asking for his group to be received into the Orthodox Church.
>
>My point was, that there is a big connection between him
>and a lot of this wandering bishop and gnostic sects disguised
>as orthodox by using orthodox style type of phenomena.
>
>Being forearmed with what to look for, you can spot it if its
>there easily. I am sorry if I was not more clear in my statements,
>I am used to doing research on some pretty wierd stuff.
True enough - some went from Roman to Unitarian to Anglican to Theosophy and
back again, and some had the whole lot and more besides. I've been looking up
in Peter Anson's "Bishops at large" to see if I can dind out about some of the
earlier people. It mentions Crow, but not Crowley. Crow, however, was weird
enough. To use his own words, about his organisation,
"Being absolutely universal (that is truly Orthodox and Catholic) it has acces
to all the divine wisdom of Theosophy, embodied in the symbols of all
nations. It utilizes knowledge pased on in the great streams of sacred
tradition, not excludinmg those of the Far East, the Brahminic-Yogic, tthe
Ancient Egyptian [Amamemnon should like that] Zoroastrian-Magian, Kabalistic,
Gnostic-Masonic, Gothic-Rosicrucian, Druidic-Bacchic, Chaldean,
Buddhist-Lamaistic, and Islamic-Sufic. It has, however, no connection wityh
any existing Masonic or Rosicrucian fraternity."
In spite of that lack of connection, however, it did claim that it had
apostolic succession!
I once met an Anglican priest who was shocked and horrified and thought we
were the most frightful heretics because we sang the "Glory to God in the
Highest" at Matins instead of in the Divine Liturgy. A few minutes later he
was telling me how good he through gnosticism was.
>This particular group I haven't heard of, but I might have forgotten it
>if it was named in any list in any of Koenig's papers.
Aye, but it's this particular group I want to know about.
Steve Hayes
>It has it's origin in latin usage, pope was a term of honor, "papa", given
>to a patriarch. Because of the latin heritage in north africa the use of
>pope remains in use.
Nope, it had its origin in Egypt, where there was little or no Latin heritage.
The North African Latin heritage was in what is today called Tunisia.
Kyralessa
> >>joking or what?
> >
> >He's the head of the ancent Orthodox Church of Alexandria.
>
> I never heard before now that the term "pope" was applied to
> any bishop but that of Rome. Perhaps I am ignorant.
Don't sweat it. As they say, ignorance is curable. (Whereas
stupidity...)
Infowolf1
Okay, I guess there are two levels you need to know about
anything: What its theory is, and what its reality is. The latter
can, I realize as I write this, break into two parts - what its REAL
theory is if there is some hidden reinterpretation of words
on their part, as I understand the Valentinian Gnostics did, so
that their beliefs as initially worded seemed orthodox but higher
teachings developed alternate meanings;
and what the practices are.
So, as to their official theory, well, there is the web page.
So, do they have non-literal spiritual reinterpretation, etc.
etc. doublespeak about it, or do they really mean what the
statement of faith on the page says? (I
only glanced at it,
what I saw sounded okay, but obviously there is a question
here. Now maybe they have grown enough to be ready to forsake
their gnostic roots and get really Orthodox, and maybe they are
a trojan horse.)
Next, what are their morals and practices? Do they some oddball quirky
practices in the rituals and prayers that might seem meaningless
but on close examination might carry heretical implication
symbolically?
And, do they reject homsexual acts and other abominations, or
are they orthodox except, surprise surprise, like some
almost fundamentalist sounding Protestant sect that is gay?
I think that these are the kinds of questions (not just
about homosexuality either) that you might want to ask them or
people who know them.
Knowing the right questions to ask how to formulate them may
go far in getting you the right answers.
For example, they say they believe in the Trinity and Incarnation.
I can't recall if they explicitly said Jesus is the ONLY case of divine
human union, or not. So, do they believe in any other "avatars?"
If not, do they consider that the other "avatars" like Kirshna
and so forth are Jesus in disguise running around getting incarnated
several times?
Never underestimate how sneaky some heretical thinkers can be.
One place to start, might be to collect the email addresses
of leaders and members if possible, starting with whatever
is on their page.
Then, do a google groups advanced search
with those emails as
"author" and see what they said when in what groups about what.
Good hunting. :)
I will see if I can dig up something in my spare time, I have
a lot of trouble keeping up with housework and tracking down
a human sacrificng practicing eclectic occultic cult whose staff
incl. a county sheriff, a county supervisor and an old ex Church
of Satan member, so far never charged at all.