Georgian Aggression against South Ossetia

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athair ambrois

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Aug 11, 2008, 7:03:11 PM8/11/08
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From: John Aleshin <jale...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Comments concerning conflict in South Ossetia
To: comm...@whitehouse.gov
Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 11:20 PM

Dear Mr. President,

First some background on who I am:

My name is John Aleshin. I am a 1974 West Point graduate, a classmate
of GEN Petreaus. I am a former US Army Special Forces major, and also
a former army Foreign Area Officer, with expertise in Russia/FSU and
Latin America. I speak fluent Russian and Spanish. I also served in
Grenada in the 82d Abn Div (received a Bronze Star) and as a Trainer/
Advisor in El Salvador.

I have been a Reagan conservative Republican my entire adult life, and
have unashamedly declared my firm belief in Our Lord and God and
Savior Jesus Christ my entire life.

Comment:

I have been following the conflict in Georgia's South Ossetia very
closely for the past week or so. It is quite obvious that Georgian
President Saakashvili made a terrible blunder by ordering a full-scale
invasion of South Ossetia in contravention of all logical, ethical,
and legal norms. At a minimum, hundreds of innocent civilians perished
during this unprovoked attack. Reports indicate that perhaps 1-2
thousand have perished, and perhaps up to half of the population of
South Ossetia (some 35,000 people) have become refugees.

As a former military man, I am furious with the support that the US
has been providing this man, and believe that your administration has
a lot to answer for. How could Saakashvili have committed such a
suicidal blunder? How could Georgia, supposedly a US ally, do such a
thing? How could US intelligence not have known about the invasion?
And if US intelligence, and thereby you, knew about the invasion, how
could you not have prevented such an idiotic military endeavor? Mr.
President, this geopolitical blunder and the consequential fiasco
reflects very poorly on your leadership and the policies and
capabilities of your administration.

While observing the news re ports over the last few days, it was
abundantly clear that something was brewing. Even the Russian
Federation warned repeatedly that Georgia was up to no good, and
mobilizing for war. The RF also tried to warn the US to reign in
Georgia, or a humanitarian disaster would result. And regarding the
actions of the Russian Federation since, it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to have been able to predict their very logical responses
after the invasion. Whether one agrees with what they did or not, the
fact of the matter is that the response they would take was easily
predictable.

Instead of having your UN ambassador criticize Russia's actions and
the alleged disproportionate use of force, you had better advise him
to stop making propaganda points to try to cover up for this colossal
US blunder. Experienced military people are able to easily see beyond
the rhetoric and hype. The Russian version of "shock and awe" to
achieve its military objectives is not much different from w hat the
US has done in the past. And to try to denigrate Russia's actions as
morally deficient is shear hypocrisy, especially when one remembers US
and/or NATO military actions over the last 15-20 years. Need I remind
you of the bombing of Serbia in 1999, way outside the zone of conflict
in Kosovo at the time?

Mr. President, take the high road. Admit that Georgia, and thereby the
US, made a colossal blunder that could have been avoided. The goal
should be to stop the conflict as soon as possible, and save as many
lives as possible. Since Russia is the key, this means working WITH
the Russian Federation, not against it. Swallow your pride and get
down to saving lives, Mr. President. Russia-bashing just prolongs the
conflict that your counterpart proxy, President Saakashvili, clearly
started.

Additionally, I recommend that you start relieving some incompetent
individuals within your administration, namely the diplomatic corps
and the intelligence establishment, for obvi ously contributing to
this horrendous and unacceptable blunder.

God bless you, Mr. President. I pray that the Good Lord will
illuminate you to do the right thing in serving our country. I also
recommend that you reason with President Medvedev, a very decent man
who chose to be baptized as a young man of 23, when the USSR still
existed. Don't insult him and Russia. Learn to work together. You will
get a lot more done that way, for the good of the world.

Respectfully,

John N. Aleshin


Joe Orthodox

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Aug 11, 2008, 7:12:20 PM8/11/08
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athair ambrois wrote:
> From: John Aleshin <jale...@yahoo.com>

A ROCOR parishioner of Russian background from Dallas. As had been
predicted, ROCOR would become stooges for Kremlin foreign policy.

++

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Aug 11, 2008, 7:50:32 PM8/11/08
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Joe Orthodox wrote:
> athair ambrois wrote:
>> From: John Aleshin <jale...@yahoo.com>
>
> A ROCOR parishioner of Russian background from Dallas.

He's a Moscow Patriarchate parishioner at St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox
Church in Uralsk where he has a family with second wife and is shortly
going to be moving to Tataristan. He has some good dieas Here is what
he had to say at the passing of Sozhenitzyn:

> What a giant. What a true Russian patriot, yet also a true citizen of
> the world, who influenced thousands outside his homeland. What
> a defender of human rights and human dignity, and an outstanding
> Orthodox Christian.
>
> Much maligned, slandered, and misunderstood. Not only by the communist
> nomenklatura in the USSR, but even by many among the so-called
> "intelligentsia" in the West, who much of the time never bothered to
> read what he actually wrote or said, but repeated slanderous lies. He
> was never anti-democratic, and never anti-semitic, as many of his
> false accusers tried to label him. But he was always a "conservative,"
> in that he wanted to preserve the best of his country's culture,
> traditions, and history, and was quick to criticize many of the
> negative aspects of modern society in general. He was one of the first
> "culture warriors" who told it like it is in many ways.
>
> May he have eternal peace, and may his memory be eternal. And may he
> be received by God in the heavenly kingdom.
>
> One of my favorite passages:
>
> "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating
> good and evil passes not through states, nor between
> classes, nor between political parties either, but right
> through every human heart, and through all human hearts.
> This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even
> within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of
> good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there
> remains a small corner of evil."
>
> - Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago (1973)
>
It's about how I feel.


> As had been predicted, ROCOR would become stooges for Kremlin foreign
> policy.

He's got some solid points, has spent some time in the Caucasus, and
etc. And, unlike you, he has the guts to put his name to what he has to
say. Could do without him credentialing himself as a Reagan Republican
isntead of letting his ideas stand on their own but maybe he thought
that might soften what he had to say about the Shrub's policy lite..

Joe Orthodox

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Aug 11, 2008, 8:38:23 PM8/11/08
to
++ wrote:
>
>
> Joe Orthodox wrote:
>> athair ambrois wrote:
>>> From: John Aleshin <jale...@yahoo.com>
>>
>> A ROCOR parishioner of Russian background from Dallas.
>
> He's a Moscow Patriarchate parishioner at St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox
> Church in Uralsk...

Oooh, even better. A super stooge, right from the source.

Message has been deleted

Joe Orthodox

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Aug 11, 2008, 10:31:09 PM8/11/08
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veritas wrote:
> Does it even matter to you if the Georgians started all this using the
> cover of the Olympic Opening Ceremony and killed 16 Russian Blue
> helmet Peacekeepers and about 1000 civilians in the capital of South
> Osettia?
>

Go back read about Operation Himmler and the Gleiwitz incident. Russia
set this up and provoked the Georgian authorities. There's no way that
the Kremlin could have moved in around 20,000 soldiers and 500 tanks
within a couple of days without having planned this from the get go.
They were arming the separatists for years, who in turn were stepping up
rocket fire into Georgian villages and towns. What should Georgia do,
not enforce law and order within its own borders?


> I guess if you ally yourself with Russia (see Serbs and South
> Ossetians) you are not allowed to defend yourself and your life is
> not worth anywhere near as much as U.S. "allies"(see Muslims in
> Bosnia and Kosovo ).
>

Abkhazia has a Muslim population. I don't believe the Kremlin cares a
whit about religion, Orthodox or otherwise. The ROC is merely an arm to
its Foreign Ministry.

> Rice was in Georgia the day before the attack on the Russian
> peacekeepers.
>

Those were Russian occupiers, not peace keepers. They signed a treaty
to have been out years ago and reneged on it. Georgia has wanted
impartial peace keepers in there and Russia refused.

++

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Aug 11, 2008, 11:05:04 PM8/11/08
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You are calling a guy from LI NY a stooge? For what reason?

Steve Hayes

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Aug 12, 2008, 2:33:29 AM8/12/08
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On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:05:04 -0400, ++ <fri...@spambot.com> wrote:

>> Oooh, even better. A super stooge, right from the source.

>You are calling a guy from LI NY a stooge? For what reason?

Because there is no God but Guard, and George Bush is his prophet.

Contradicting the word of the prophet of Almighty Guard is streng verboten.

And as the Holy Prophet of Almighty Guard is not a member of ROCOR, any word
of a member of ROCOR that contradicts the word of the Holy Prophet of Almighty
Guard is ipso facto not true and therefore emanates from a stooge of the
Kremlin.

Just don't ask who is being a stooge of the White House.

--
Terms and conditions apply.

Steve Hayes
haye...@hotmail.com

Steve Hayes

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Aug 12, 2008, 2:58:06 AM8/12/08
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http://www.globalresearch.ca:80/index.php?context=va&aid=9788 War
in the Caucasus: Towards a Broader Russia-US Military Confrontation?

By Michel Chossudovsky

Global Research, August 10, 2008

During the night of August 7, coinciding with the opening ceremony
of the Beijing Olympics, Georgia's president Saakashvili ordered
an all-out military attack on Tskhinvali, the capital of South
Ossetia.

The aerial bombardments and ground attacks were largely directed
against civilian targets including residential areas, hospitals and
the university.

The provincial capital Tskhinvali was destroyed. The attacks resulted
in some 1500 civilian deaths, according to both Russian and Western
sources. "The air and artillery bombardment left the provincial
capital without water, food, electricity and gas. Horrified civilians
crawled out of the basements into the streets as fighting eased,
looking for supplies." (AP, August 9, 2008).

According to reports, some 34,000 people from South Ossetia have
fled to Russia. (Deseret Morning News, Salt Lake City, August 10,
2008)

The importance and timing of this military operation must be carefully
analyzed. It has far-reaching implications.

Georgia is an outpost of US and NATO forces, on the immediate border
of the Russian Federation and within proximity of the Middle East
Central Asian war theater. South Ossetia is also at the crossroads
of strategic oil and gas pipeline routes.

Georgia does not act militarily without the assent of Washington.
The Georgian head of State is a US proxy and Georgia is a de facto
US protectorate.

Who is behind this military agenda? What interests are being served?

What is the purpose of the military operation.

There is evidence that the attacks were carefully coordinated by
the US military and NATO.

Moscow has accused NATO of "encouraging Georgia". Russia's Foreign
Minister Sergey Lavrov underscored the destabilizing impacts of
"foreign"

military aid to Georgia: .

"It all confirms our numerous warnings addressed to the international
community that it is necessary to pay attention to massive arms
purchasing by Georgia during several years. Now we see how these
arms and Georgian special troops who had been trained by foreign
specialists are used," he said.(Moscow accuses NATO of having
"encouraged Georgia" to attack South Ossetia, Russia Today, August
9, 2008)

Moscow's envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, sent an official note to
the representatives of all NATO member countries:

"Russia has already begun consultations with the ambassadors of the
NATO countries and consultations with NATO military representatives
will be held tomorrow," Rogozin said. "We will caution them against
continuing to further support of Saakashvili."

"It is an undisguised aggression accompanied by a mass propaganda
war," he said.

(See Moscow accuses NATO of having "encouraged Georgia" to attack
South Ossetia, Russia Today, August 9, 2008)

According to Rogozin, Georgia had initially planned to:

"start military action against Abkhazia, however, 'the Abkhaz
fortified region turned out to be unassailable for Georgian armed
formations, therefore a different tactic was chosen aimed against
South Ossetia', which is more accessible territorially. The envoy
has no doubts that Mikheil Saakashvili had agreed his actions with
"sponsors", "those with whom he is negotiating Georgia's accession
to NATO ". (RIA Novosti, August 8, 2008)

Contrary to what was conveyed by Western media reports, the attacks
were anticipated by Moscow. The attacks were timed to coincide with
the opening of the Olympics, largely with a view to avoiding frontpage
media coverage of the Georgian military operation.

On August 7, Russian forces were in an advanced state readiness.
The counterattack was swiftly carried out.

Russian paratroopers were sent in from Russia's Ivanovo, Moscow and
Pskov airborne divisions. Tanks, armored vehicles and several
thousand ground troops have been deployed. Russian air strikes have
largely targeted military facilities inside Georgia including the
Gori military base.

The Georgian military attack was repealed with a massive show of
strength on the part of the Russian military.

Act of Provocation?

US-NATO military and intelligence planners invariably examine various
"scenarios" of a proposed military operation-- i.e. in this case,
a limited Georgian attack largely directed against civilian targets,
with a view to inflicting civilian casualties.

The examination of scenarios is a routine practice. With limited
military capabilities, a Georgian victory and occupation of Tskhinvali,
was an impossibility from the outset. And this was known and
understood to US-NATO military planners.

A humanitarian disaster rather than a military victory was an
integral part of the scenario. The objective was to destroy the
provincial capital, while also inflicting a significant loss of
human life.

If the objective were to restore Georgian political control over
the provincial government, the operation would have been undertaken
in a very different fashion, with Special Forces occupying key
public buildings, communications networks and provincial institutions,
rather than waging an all out bombing raid on residential areas,
hospitals, not to mention Tskhinvali's University.

The Russian response was entirely predictable.

Georgia was "encouraged" by NATO and the US. Both Washington and
NATO headquarters in Brussels were acutely aware of what would
happen in the case of a Russian counterattack.

The question is: was this a deliberate provocation intended to
trigger a Russian military response and suck the Russians into a
broader military confrontation with Georgia (and allied forces)
which could potentially escalate into an all out war?

Georgia has the third largest contingent of coalition forces in
Iraq after the US and the UK, with some 2000 troops. According to
reports, Georgian troops in Iraq are now being repatriated in US
military planes, to fight Russian forces. (See Debka.com, August
10, 2008)

This US decision to repatriate Georgian servicemen suggests that
Washington is intent upon an escalation of the conflict, where
Georgian troops are to be used as canon fodder against a massive
deployment of Russian forces.

US-NATO and Israel Involved in the Planning of the Attacks

In mid-July, Georgian and U.S. troops held a joint military exercise
entitled "Immediate Response" involving respectively 1,200 US and
800 Georgian troops.

The announcement by the Georgian Ministry of Defense on July 12
stated that they US and Georgian troops were to "train for three
weeks at the Vaziani military base" near the Georgian capital,
Tbilisi. (AP, July 15, 2008). These exercises, which were completed
barely a week before the August 7 attacks, were an obvious dress
rehearsal of a military operation, which, in all likelihood, had
been planned in close cooperation with the Pentagon.

The war on Southern Ossetia was not meant to be won, leading to the
restoration of Georgian sovereignty over South Ossetia. It was
intended to destabilize the region while also triggering a US-NATO
confrontation with Russia.

On July 12, coinciding with the outset of the Georgia-US war games,
the Russian Defense Ministry started its own military maneuvers in
the North Caucasus region. The usual disclaimer by both Tblisi and
Moscow: the military exercises have "nothing to do" with the situation
in South Ossetia. (Ibid)

Let us be under no illusions. This is not a civil war. The attacks
are an integral part of the broader Middle East Central Asian war,
including US-NATO-Israeli war preparations in relation to Iran.

The Role of Israeli Military Advisers

While NATO and US military advisers did not partake in the military
operation per se, they were actively involved in the planning and
logistics of the attacks. According to Israeli sources (Debka.com,
August 8, 2008), the ground assault on August 7-8, using tanks and
artillery was "aided by Israeli military advisers". Israel also
supplied Georgia with Hermes-450 and Skylark unmanned aerial vehicles,
which were used in the weeks leading up to the August 7 attacks.

Georgia has also acquired, according to a report in Rezonansi (August
6, in Georgian, BBC translation) "some powerful weapons through the
upgrade of Su-25 planes and artillery systems in Israel". According
to Haaretz (August 10, 2008), Israelis are active in military
manufacturing and security consulting in Georgia.

Russian forces are now directly fighting a NATO-US trained Georgian
army integrated by US and Israeli advisers. And Russian warplanes
have attacked the military jet factory on the outskirts of Tbilisi,
which produces the upgraded Su-25 fighter jet, with technical support
from Israel. (CTV.ca, August 10, 2008)

When viewed in the broader context of the Middle East war, the
crisis in Southern Ossetia could lead to escalation, including a
direct confrontation between Russian and NATO forces. If this were
to occur, we would be facing the most serious crisis in US-Russian
relations since the Cuban Missile crisis in October 1962.

Georgia: NATO-US Outpost

Georgia is part of a NATO military alliance (GUAM) signed in April
1999 at the very outset of the war on Yugoslavia. It also has a
bilateral military cooperation agreement with the US. These underlying
military agreements have served to protect Anglo-American oil
interests in the Caspian sea basin as well as pipeline routes.

Both the US and NATO have a military presence in Georgia and are
working closely with the Georgian Armed Forces. Since the signing
of the 1999 GUAM agreement, Georgia has been the recipient of
extensive US military aid.

Barely a few months ago, in early May, the Russian Ministry of
Defense accused Washington, "claiming that [US as well as NATO and
Israeli] military assistance to Georgia is destabilizing the region."
(Russia Claims Georgia in Arms Buildup, Wired News, May 19, 2008).
According to the Russian Defense Ministry

"Georgia has received 206 tanks, of which 175 units were supplied
by NATO states, 186 armored vehicles (126 - from NATO) , 79 guns
(67 - from NATO) , 25 helicopters (12 - from NATO) , 70 mortars,
ten surface-to-air missile systems, eight Israeli-made unmanned
aircraft, and other weapons. In addition, NATO countries have
supplied four combat aircraft to Georgia. The Russian Defense
Ministry said there were plans to deliver to Georgia 145 armored
vehicles, 262 guns and mortars, 14 combat aircraft including four
Mirazh-2000 destroyers, 25 combat helicopters, 15 American Black
Hawk aircraft, six surface-to-air missile systems and other arms."
(Interfax News Agency, Moscow, in Russian, Aug 7, 2008)

NATO-US-Israeli assistance under formal military cooperation
agreements involves a steady flow of advanced military equipment
as well as training and consulting services.

According to US military sources (spokesman for US European Command),
the US has more than 100 "military trainers" in Georgia. A Pentagon
spokesman Bryan Whitman "said there were no plans to redeploy the
estimated 130 US troops and civilian contractors, who he said were
stationed in the area around Tblisi" (AFP, 9 August 2008). In fact,
US-NATO military presence in Georgia is on a larger scale to that
acknowledged in official statements. The number of NATO personnel
in Georgia acting as trainers and military advisers has not been
confirmed.

Although not officially a member of NATO, Georgia's military is
full integrated into NATO procedures. In 2005, Georgian president
proudly announced the inauguration of the first military base, which
"fully meets NATO standards". Immediately following the inauguration
of the Senakskaya base in west Georgia, Tblisi announced the opening
of a second military base at Gori which would also "comply with
NATO regulations in terms of military requirements as well as social
conditions." (Ria Novosti, 26 May 2006).

The Gori base has been used to train Georgian troops dispatched to
fight under US command in the Iraq war theater.

It is worth noting that under a March 31, 2006, agreement between
Tblisi and Moscow, Russia's two Soviet-era military bases in Georgia
- Akhalkalaki and Batumi have been closed down. (Ibid) The pullout
at Batumi commenced in May of last year, 2007. The last remaining
Russian troops left the Batumi military facility in early July 2008,
barely a week before the commencement of the US-Georgia war games
and barely a month prior to the attacks on South Ossetia.

The Israel Connection

Israel is now part of the Anglo-American military axis, which serves
the interests of the Western oil giants in the Middle East and
Central Asia.

Israel is a partner in the Baku-Tblisi- Ceyhan pipeline which brings
oil and gas to the Eastern Mediterranean. More than 20 percent of
Israeli oil is imported from Azerbaijan, of which a large share
transits through the BTC pipeline. Controlled by British Petroleum,
the BTC pipeline has dramatically changed the geopolitics of the
Eastern Mediterranean and the Caucusus:

"[The BTC pipeline] considerably changes the status of the region's
countries and cements a new pro-West alliance. Having taken the
pipeline to the Mediterranean, Washington has practically set up a
new bloc with Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey and Israel, " (Komerzant,
Moscow, 14 July 2006)

While the official reports state that the BTC pipeline will "channel
oil to Western markets", what is rarely acknowledged is that part
of the oil from the Caspian sea would be directly channeled towards
Israel, via Georgia. In this regard, a Israeli-Turkish pipeline
project has also been envisaged which would link Ceyhan to the
Israeli port of Ashkelon and from there through Israel's main
pipeline system, to the Red Sea.

The objective of Israel is not only to acquire Caspian sea oil for
its own consumption needs but also to play a key role in re-exporting
Caspian sea oil back to the Asian markets through the Red Sea port
of Eilat. The strategic implications of this re-routing of Caspian
sea oil are far-reaching. (For further details see Michel Chossudovsky,
The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil, Global Research, July
2006)

What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel
Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel's Tipline, from Ceyhan
to the Israeli port of Ashkelon.

"Turkey and Israel are negotiating the construction of a
multi-million-dollar energy and water project that will transport
water, electricity, natural gas and oil by pipelines to Israel,
with the oil to be sent onward from Israel to the Far East,

The new Turkish-Israeli proposal under discussion would see the
transfer of water, electricity, natural gas and oil to Israel via
four underwater pipelines.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1145961328841&pagename=JPo
st%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull"Baku oil can be transported to Ashkelon
via this new pipeline and to India and the Far East.[via the Red
sea]"

"Ceyhan and the Mediterranean port of Ashkelon are situated only
400 km apart. Oil can be transported to the city in tankers or via
specially constructed under-water pipeline. From Ashkelon the oil
can be pumped through already existing pipeline to the port of Eilat
at the Red Sea; and from there it can be transported to India and
other Asian countries in tankers. (REGNUM)

In this regard, Israel is slated to play a major strategic role in
"protecting" the Eastern Mediterranean transport and pipeline
corridors out of Ceyhan. Concurrently, it also involved in channeling
military aid and training to both Georgia and Azerbaijan.

A far-reaching 1999 bilateral military cooperation agreement between
Tblisi and Tel Aviv was reached barely a month before the NATO
sponsored GUUAM agreement. It was signed in Tbilisi by President
Shevardnadze and Israel's Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyu. These
various military cooperation arrangements are ultimately intended
to undermine Russia's presence and influence in the Caucasus and
Central Asia.

In a pro forma declaration, Tel Aviv committed itself, following
bilateral discussions with Moscow, on August 5, 2008, to cut back
military assistance to Georgia.

Russia's Response

In response to the attacks, Russian forces intervened with conventional
ground troops. Tanks and armored vehicles were sent in. The Russian
air force was also involved in aerial counter-attacks on Georgian
military positions including the military base of Gori.

The Western media has portrayed the Russian as solely responsible
for the deaths of civilians, yet at the same time the Western media
has acknowledged (confirmed by the BBC) that most of the civilian
casualties at the outset were the result of the Georgian ground and
air attacks.

Based on Russian and Western sources, the initial death toll in
South Ossetia was at least 1,400 (BBC) mostly civilians. "Georgian
casualty figures ranged from 82 dead, including 37 civilians, to a
figure of around 130 dead.... A Russian air strike on Gori, a
Georgian town near South Ossetia, left 60 people dead, many of them
civilians, Georgia says." (BBC, August 9, 2008). Russian sources
place the number of civilian deaths on South Ossetia at 2000.

A process of escalation and confrontation between Russia and America
is unfolding, reminiscent of the Cold War era.

Are we dealing with an act of provocation, with a view to triggering
a broader conflict? Supported by media propaganda, the Western
military alliance is intent on using this incident to confront
Russia, as evidenced by recent NATO statements.

Also on this subject read:

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2006/0103.html
CENTRAL ASIA, WASHINGTON AND BEIJING ENERGY GEO-POLITICS

Message has been deleted

Steve Hayes

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Aug 12, 2008, 3:38:11 AM8/12/08
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 17:04:06 +1000, veritas <comin...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:33:29 +0200, Steve Hayes
>The American people need to rise up and take back the government from
>the parasitic worshippers of Mammon in Washington D.C. and they need
>to run it on Christian principles.

Never mind taking over the government. How can we run a government when we
can't even control ourselves?

Nipsis must begin with me.


--
The unworthy deacon,
Stephen Methodius Hayes
Contact: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Orthodox mission pages: http://www.orthodoxy.faithweb.com/

AGGreen

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Aug 12, 2008, 8:03:19 AM8/12/08
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***Why is a country trying to take back a rebel province wrong? Why is it
"aggression"? And why, when the Russians interfer are they not condemned?

Al

"athair ambrois" <em...@globe.net.nz> wrote in message
news:fbdbb13a-2c2c-44bb...@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

AGGreen

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Aug 12, 2008, 8:05:58 AM8/12/08
to

"Steve Hayes" <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a7b2a457snvemdqo6...@4ax.com...


***Typical remark from the white supremecist South African America hater!!
Can it! Your country sucks big time.

AGGreen

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Aug 12, 2008, 8:04:54 AM8/12/08
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***After suffering several diplomatic setbacks against the U.S., Russia
seems to be reasserting itself as a world power.

Al


"Joe Orthodox" <spamb...@spaminator.net> wrote in message
news:g7qsle$319$1...@aioe.org...

Message has been deleted

Steve Hayes

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Aug 12, 2008, 3:53:38 PM8/12/08
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:04:30 +1000, veritas <comin...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:33:29 +0200, Steve Hayes

><haye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:05:04 -0400, ++ <fri...@spambot.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Oooh, even better. A super stooge, right from the source.
>>
>>>You are calling a guy from LI NY a stooge? For what reason?
>>
>>Because there is no God but Guard, and George Bush is his prophet.
>

>Steve,
>
>They ought to sign you up to the Democrat Convention as the keynote
>speaker .
>
>You'd fit right in .

Mark my words: my prediction is that a Republicrat will be elected.

My comment, however, was on the adulation of JoeBushodox.

I've ;earnd our government must be strong
It's always right and never wrong
Our leaders are the finest men
And we elect 'em again and again
That's what I learned in school today
That's what I learned in school.

Instead that kind of blind chauvinism, how about thinking for a change?

AGGreen

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Aug 12, 2008, 10:39:07 PM8/12/08
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***Why do you care, Steve? You're not an American.

"Steve Hayes" <haye...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:g5q3a4he8cgj44nhq...@4ax.com...

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