DVD Set of Reunification available
OrthoNews8
We have obtained a number of DVD sets of the entire five and 3/4+ hour
Unification Service at Christ the Savior Cathedral on May 17.
The sets contain *5* DVD's and are playable on most home DVD players.
The content is *un-edited* and includes the approximately 45 minutes of
preparation time during which the camera repeatedly pans over and does
close-ups of the participants.
The Video is full 720 X 480 MPEG2 Video - audio is 224Kbs/48K Audio
and is quite good. We have previewed it on a 62" television and the results
were very pleasing.
The DVD's have full-face 4-color on-disk printed labels (not applied
paper labels).
The sets are available for $22.50 including shipping to U.S. and
Canada. Additional charges for International Shipping apply.
The DVD's are NTSC, but can be provided also in PAL format if required
at an additional charge of $10.00 per set.
Send payment by check or M.O. in U.S. funds with order to:
Orthodox Christian Religious Foundation
6801 NW 43rd St.
Bethany, OK. 73008-2520
USA
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Protopriest Anthony Nelson
St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church
Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441
mailto:fr.an...@russianorthodoxoklahoma.org
jmd
:-))))))
jm
OrthoNews8
"jmd" <dogg...@zeneveupah2spam.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Usenet.tqgibgrl@localhost...
>a little expensive for the only use I see with this : clay pigeon shooting
>
> :-))))))
>
> jm
***Despite the keyboard grins, why are you opposed to the reunification of
the Russian church?
jmd
the term "Russian church" in itself is an heresy
The Church of Christ in Moscow, in Vladivostok, and so on, ok.
I know Khomiakov uses this, BUT he explains also why he uses that shortcut of language.
All others are not taking this as a shortcut but as a theological fact.
The bases on which they have pretendly reunited are canonically wrong. If we are the
Church of Apostles, then we have to follow the Canons of the Church of Apostles. We have
nothing to do with a pope of the Slav and a pope of the Greek fighting each other and at
the same time kissing the feet of the president of vatican State. These 2 are bishops of
a given town, and no Canon in the Church gives them anything more than the ruling of the
diocese where that town is.
Rocor is not in Russia, so it cannot be a "part of the Church in Russia", it's silly and
in flagrant contradiction with the Canons
that's as easy as that and my 15 years old IBM keyboard is fine, thank you for him ;-)
jm
OrthoNews8
***Please remembner that the Canons are NOT laws to be followed like civil
laws enacted by a congress. Orthodoxy's Canons are spiritual guidelines.
>
> Rocor is not in Russia, so it cannot be a "part of the Church in Russia",
> it's silly and
> in flagrant contradiction with the Canons
***I almost hate to say this, but ROCOR has had parishes in Russia for a
long time.
Al
jmd
>
>
>
> ***Please remembner that the Canons are NOT laws to be followed like civil
> laws enacted by a congress. Orthodoxy's Canons are spiritual guidelines.
a Canon of the Church is a little more than just a spiritual guideline
otherwise they wouldn't have been composed
the Canon that say that a bishop may not interfere in another diocese has been several
times in Church history (till the start of ethno-phyletism heresy) used to punish bishops
causing troubles inside the Church. Just because the Canons were more than vague
guidelines that one may use only if interested
> > Rocor is not in Russia, so it cannot be a "part of the Church in Russia",
> > it's silly and
> > in flagrant contradiction with the Canons
>
>
> ***I almost hate to say this, but ROCOR has had parishes in Russia for a
> long time.
Rocor has also ordained some heretics
These parishes inside Russia were the best proof there was something wrong inside Rocor,
something very insane. And not suprisingly, the lot of these totally uncanonical parishes
in the process of fake reunification is interesting. The big ugly one in vatican is
folded in 5, cannot stopping to laugh at the ridiculous spectacle we give to the world.
Having the truth inside the Church and defiling it so evidently, and trying all possible
ways to find "excuses" to continue to do so, that's the best trump for the gang of
vatican to continue to impose its yoke on a part of the world. As long as power hungry
guys will be on the seat of saint Tikhon of Moscow and saint John Chrysostom, wordly
people instead of saints, the Church will be under constant earthquake. Don't support
those in error, Al'. Saint Nil Sorsky prefered to go far far far from all instead of
staying and working with the bad guys. Those bad guys got "canonised" by the system, so
what? Saint Nil has proven over the centuries to be the right way. Not the opposite group.
Same for today. The worldly ways shown by prelates, instead of the way of sanctity that
should be shown by saint bishops, is not what we need to follow.
JM
++
>OrthoNews8 wrote:
>
>
>>
>>***Please remembner that the Canons are NOT laws to be followed like civil
>>laws enacted by a congress. Orthodoxy's Canons are spiritual guidelines.
>>
>>
>
>a Canon of the Church is a little more than just a spiritual guideline
>
>otherwise they wouldn't have been composed
>
>the Canon that say that a bishop may not interfere in another diocese has been several
>times in Church history (till the start of ethno-phyletism heresy) used to punish bishops
>causing troubles inside the Church. Just because the Canons were more than vague
>guidelines that one may use only if interested
>
>
I was just thinking today that what we are asked to do from time to time
is suspend belief, and then, after a time, get with the new program.
The ROCOR conciliation is like that, I think. It took a long time to
get to allowing the man and woman on the street in Russia to be
Orthodox, then there was still a jurisdictional war, then there were
various holy pronouncements from myrrh gushing icons on, then there were
the various omophrons, then there was the suspension of discussions of
the Matthewites and Sergianists.
What needs to happen, and all I hear is patience, patience, is for the
jurisdicitons to all be one again. No GOA, no OCA, no ROCOR, no MP, no
Antiochians. Let's go back to where we started in the Russian Orthodox
Greek Catholic one jurisdicitonal enterprise, call it the American
Patriarchate, figure out a way to have Mr. Patriarch, and get whole again.
>Rocor has also ordained some heretics
>
>These parishes inside Russia
>
There were parishes inside other countries as well. For example, the
ROCOR has a church in Sofia (with a very nice bookstore, I might add)
>were the best proof there was something wrong inside Rocor,
>something very insane. And not suprisingly, the lot of these totally uncanonical parishes
>in the process of fake reunification is interesting. The big ugly one in vatican is
>folded in 5, cannot stopping to laugh at the ridiculous spectacle we give to the world.
>
>
especially titles like HIS MOST HIGH HOLINESS and the fact that we can
no longer, it seems feel personally connected to our bishops. I love
the term Vladika (Little Cute Father, more or less in English) because
it expresses much closer a personal and a sweeter connection than MOST
BLESSED MASTER which we are now using even for priests. I spent my yuth
in a church where the priests and bishops sat among us at a dinner after
the liturgy. The only difference was that the ladies would fill the
bishop's plate with no meat but the choicest everything else. Now, the
clergy often sit apart or on a dias. All of this kind of stuff is ROMAN
Catholic.
>Having the truth inside the Church and defiling it so evidently, and trying all possible
>ways to find "excuses" to continue to do so, that's the best trump for the gang of
>vatican to continue to impose its yoke on a part of the world. As long as power hungry
>guys will be on the seat of saint Tikhon of Moscow and saint John Chrysostom, wordly
>people instead of saints, the Church will be under constant earthquake. Don't support
>those in error, Al'. Saint Nil Sorsky prefered to go far far far from all instead of
>staying and working with the bad guys. Those bad guys got "canonised" by the system, so
>what? Saint Nil has proven over the centuries to be the right way. Not the opposite group.
> Same for today. The worldly ways shown by prelates, instead of the way of sanctity that
> should be shown by saint bishops, is not what we need to follow.
>
>
We must flee the world but still be family. When you think about Nils
Sorski, remember that he wrote (I wish I had a copy of his writings so I
could find it) about people coming together for services, for the act of
a prayr and daily life apart and a Church life together for services.
>JM
>
>
>
>
++
> As long as power hungry
>guys will be on the seat of saint Tikhon of Moscow and saint John Chrysostom, wordly
>people instead of saints, the Church will be under constant earthquake. Don't support
>those in error, Al'. Saint Nil Sorsky prefered to go far far far from all instead of
>staying and working with the bad guys. Those bad guys got "canonised" by the system, so
>what? Saint Nil has proven over the centuries to be the right way. Not the opposite group.
> Same for today. The worldly ways shown by prelates, instead of the way of sanctity that
> should be shown by saint bishops, is not what we need to follow.
>
>
It occurs to me to challenge what you say. A Tikhon Zadonski and a St.
John Chrysostym are valuable for the life of the Church, too. They are
accomplishing different things. Sometimes, St. John's sermons will move
me to tears, even after the 500th hearing or reading because they
crystalize what the Church means to different people. This is thegenius
of the Easter srmon we all hear and why we sing his tropar on Easter,
the only saint always honored this way. It honors those who fast and
pray, but also honors those who realize the importance of coming even at
the last minute, the power of love and belief.
There is room for all in the Kingdom of Heaven if they want it, perhaps
if they would only be happy there.
>JM
>
>
>
>
jmd
>
> jmd wrote:
>
> > As long as power hungry
> >guys will be on the seat of saint Tikhon of Moscow and saint John Chrysostom, wordly
> >people instead of saints, the Church will be under constant earthquake. Don't support
> >those in error, Al'. Saint Nil Sorsky prefered to go far far far from all instead of
> >staying and working with the bad guys. Those bad guys got "canonised" by the system,
> >so what? Saint Nil has proven over the centuries to be the right way. Not the opposite
> >group.
> > Same for today. The worldly ways shown by prelates, instead of the way of sanctity
> > that should be shown by saint bishops, is not what we need to follow.
> >
> >
>
> It occurs to me to challenge what you say. A Tikhon Zadonski and a St.
> John Chrysostym are valuable for the life of the Church, too. They are
this is precisely what I wanted to say, and sorry if I expressed myself so bad!
I compared these great saints, true bishops, lovely and powerfull and devoted pastors,
with the prelates and worldly rulers of churches we have today
jm
jmd
>
> jmd wrote:
>
> What needs to happen, and all I hear is patience, patience, is for the
> jurisdicitons to all be one again. No GOA, no OCA, no ROCOR, no MP, no
> Antiochians. Let's go back to where we started in the Russian Orthodox
> Greek Catholic one jurisdicitonal enterprise, call it the American
> Patriarchate, figure out a way to have Mr. Patriarch, and get whole again.
first the patriarc of Constantinople must be forced to go to exile in Greece or on Athos.
Then only he will forget his dreams of "Eastern popism", and the most required
patriarcate in the America's will be possible. Let a Romanian like abp Nathaniel or the
Greek abp of Denver, mgr Isaiah, become first patriarch, you'll have a good one
> >Rocor has also ordained some heretics
> >
> >These parishes inside Russia
> >
>
> There were parishes inside other countries as well. For example, the
> ROCOR has a church in Sofia (with a very nice bookstore, I might add)
I know a few others, indeed, I mentionned Russia because the reunification with MP should
have as obligation to get quit of these so evident canonical and theological errors, not
to say heresies.
> >were the best proof there was something wrong inside Rocor,
> >something very insane. And not suprisingly, the lot of these totally uncanonical
> >parishes in the process of fake reunification is interesting. The big ugly one in
> >vatican is folded in 5, cannot stopping to laugh at the ridiculous spectacle we give
> >to the world.
> >
> >
>
> especially titles like HIS MOST HIGH HOLINESS and the fact that we can
> no longer, it seems feel personally connected to our bishops. I love
> the term Vladika (Little Cute Father, more or less in English) because
> it expresses much closer a personal and a sweeter connection than MOST
> BLESSED MASTER which we are now using even for priests. I spent my yuth
> in a church where the priests and bishops sat among us at a dinner after
> the liturgy. The only difference was that the ladies would fill the
> bishop's plate with no meat but the choicest everything else. Now, the
> clergy often sit apart or on a dias. All of this kind of stuff is ROMAN
> Catholic.
a little more than 2 years ago, I was in a MP parish in Belgium, there was a Feast, and
in the middle of the Liturgy, one of the choir, an old man, fell suddenly very unwell, a
heart problem. We took him out, and with a Belgian journalist and a few parishionneers,
we tried to help him, before I called the ambulance. After the Liturgy, there was a meal.
The bishop & clergy went in another room. None asked about the man, thought they saw him
falling on the ground during Liturgy. When I came from hospital with news, the translator
of the bishop told me he was busy to talk so "do not disturb", and the priest simply said
"ok, thank you, bye bye" since then, I feel and understand more and more all what people
like fr. Alexander Men or Alexander Schmemann wrote about the problems in today's
episcopacy...
> > Same for today. The worldly ways shown by prelates, instead of the way of sanctity
> > that should be shown by saint bishops, is not what we need to follow.
> >
> >
>
> We must flee the world but still be family. When you think about Nils
> Sorski, remember that he wrote (I wish I had a copy of his writings so I
> could find it) about people coming together for services, for the act of
> a prayr and daily life apart and a Church life together for services.
that's what I like with him
now, for his writing, in French, I know where to get them, but in English, sorry, I don't.
jm
++
>+
>
>>It occurs to me to challenge what you say. A Tikhon Zadonski and a St.
>>John Chrysostym are valuable for the life of the Church, too. They are
>>
>>
>
>this is precisely what I wanted to say, and sorry if I expressed myself so bad!
>
>I compared these great saints, true bishops, lovely and powerfull and devoted pastors,
>with the prelates and worldly rulers of churches we have today
>
>jm
>
>
Well then, that's appropriate. There are good pastors out there, but
few that meet that level ..
++
>first the patriarc of Constantinople must be forced to go to exile in Greece or on Athos. Then only he will forget his dreams of "Eastern popism", and the most required patriarcate in the America's will be possible. Let a Romanian like abp Nathaniel or the Greek abp of Denver, mgr Isaiah, become first patriarch, you'll have a good one
>
>
I don't know either of those bishops, but it bothers me that in America
we have both Romanian Patriarchate and rival Romanian archbishopric. It
creates an artificial division in Orthodoxy to have that going on. It
would, on the other hand, be fine to have an American parish where the
services were in Romanian. And that Bishop Nathanial , now Romanian
archbishop within the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA would be something
like the OCA bishop of Kansas City. It would create fewer divisions. In
my area, within shor driving distance, there are two Romanian Episcopate
of the OCA parishes, one of which operates almost totally in English,
one mostly in Romanian. Why should they have their own bishop far away
when there is a Bishop of Washington and New York (Herman)
>I know a few others, indeed, I mentionned Russia because the reunification with MP should have as obligation to get quit of these so evident canonical and theological errors, not to say heresies.
>
>
Absolutely, and a good example. It's not so bad to have one
demonstration church in the capitol or a large city of a country, but
not to compete with the church of that country. Otherwise, it doesn't
discourage national churches in local languages by having rival churches
in foreign countries, stirring up conflict.
>a little more than 2 years ago, I was in a MP parish in Belgium, there was a Feast, andin the middle of the Liturgy, one of the choir, an old man, fell suddenly very unwell, a heart problem. We took him out, and with a Belgian journalist and a few parishionneers, we tried to help him, before I called the ambulance. After the Liturgy, there was a meal. The bishop & clergy went in another room. None asked about the man, thought they saw him
>falling on the ground during Liturgy. When I came from hospital with news, the translator of the bishop told me he was busy to talk so "do not disturb", and the priest simply said "ok, thank you, bye bye" since then, I feel and understand more and more all what people like fr. Alexander Men or Alexander Schmemann wrote about the problems in today's episcopacy...
>
>
Both Alexander Schmemann and John Meyendorff would go out of their way
to encourage interest in Orthodoxy beyond just attending services. When
I lived in New Haven, CT, one or the other of them would serve our
little Orthodox fellowship at Yale and environs once a month. This was
a huge distance to travel to encourage students there. Meanwhile, with
forty churches in Washington, DC, and a huge Metropolitan area, not even
one of the many deacons will lead a monthly Orthodox group at one of the
largest two year schools in the country to a large population of
Orthodox students who often physically cannot make it to services. I
cry for the future of Orthodoxy. The Greek Church has a slightly better
attitude
>that's what I like with him
>now, for his writing, in French, I know where to get them, but in English, sorry, I don't.
>
>jm
>
Things have gotten more hierarchical and that does not bode well for the
future of Orthodoxy. It separates prelates from laity, puts distance
between their lives. I felt more awe for one prist of the ROCOR who
worked for nothing and was a farmer than for any Patriarch or bishop I
have met. There is something awesome about watching someone in your
life (becaus the person is NOT distant) live an exemplary prayerful life.
G.
jmd
>
> Things have gotten more hierarchical and that does not bode well for the
> future of Orthodoxy.
never despair :
"et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam" (Mt 16,18b)
Our Lord has founded the Church, and the Holy Spirit rules it. Of course, like ourselves,
when we rebuke the Spirit by doing our own will, those who have been chosen among us and
ordained for the service of the people of God are sometimes forgetting what "minister" in
greek or hebrew means. This last century, we can even say, compairing with before, that a
vast majority of them has forgotten this. But neverless, if in the time of saint Nilus,
it was also the case, we can see that they were indeed very few, but truly great saints
standing up inside the Church of God. Most suffered the direct persecutions of those
"nominal Orthodox". Let's pray to have more saint Ambrose of Optina, more saint Nil
Sorsky, more saint Lambert of Liege, more saint Nicholas Planas, and so on.
jm