Re: "I believe" Why is there no biblical Creed to follow in order to be a Born Again Believer?

[Dr. Who]

On Dec 30, 2022, servant wrote
(in article<63af24f6$0$2252$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> Hmm, let's see how a church of the tradition of the wof guru kenneth hagin
> would answer. Here is their creed. Creed has this meaning from a web
> page:

As usual this post from the woman is a. Distortion of facts.
>
> "The term is anglicized from Latin credo "I believe"

This statement is blatantly false. See "credo" below.

creed |krēd|
noun
a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith: people of many
creeds and cultures.

•(often theCreed)a formal statement of Christian beliefs, especially the
Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed: the godparents will then swear that they
believe in the Creed and the Commandments.

•a set of beliefs or aims which guide someone's actions: not everyone
follows a creed of acceptance and understanding.

ORIGIN Old English creda, from Latin credo
=======================================
crēdo

transitive and intransitive verb III conjugation

View the declension of this word
(https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-flexion.php?lemma=C
REDO100)

1 to trust, to entrust

2 to commit, to consign

3 to believe, to trust in, to rely on, to confide

4 to suppose

5 (money) to lend to, to make loans, to give credit

6 to believe, to think, to accept as true, to be sure
==========================================
Notice a creed is to commit to, to consign in latin. A creed therefore is for
one to follow, not just some statement of a person or organization that they
chose to believe, Creeds were used to out heretics, and to murder all those
that were considered heretics, thus totally opposing the word of God to just
shun them.

>
> That surely includes what is to be done for "born again" ala scripture, as
> the wof guru church reflects. Note the trinity and the divinity and
> incarnation of Christ are part of their "I believe" creed page:

This statement is an outright lie. "Born Again" is of Jesus and written about
by his apostles.
>
>
> What we believe - Rhema Bible Church
>
> https://www.rhemabiblechurch.net/index.php/articles/teachings/44-what-we-believe

This time the link worked.
>
>
> What We Believe THE WORD OF GOD, THE HOLY SCRIPTURES
>
> The Bible is the one, and only, inspired (literally meaning, "spoken out
> of God's own mouth") Word of God and revelation of His Word comes by the
> Holy
> Spirit, the teacher of the Church. It is the revealed Will of God (2
> Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 2:13; John 14:26; 2 Peter 1:21).
>
> THE GODHEAD, THE TRINITY
>
> Our God is one, but is manifested in three unique persons - the Father,
> the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All are equal and eternal (1 John 5:7;
> Philippians 2:5-6). Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Word made flesh
> (Mark 1:1, John 1:1 &14) and He is the express image of God (Hebrews
> 1:2-3).
> The Holy Spirit proceeded forth from both the Father and the Son and is
> eternal. (John 14:26; 15:26).
>
> MAN, THE FALL, AND REDEMPTION
>
> Man was created in the image of God: spirit, soul, and body. (1
> Thessalonians 5:23; Genesis 1:26) Through Adam's transgression, sin entered
> the world
> and separated man from God (Genesis 1:26; Romans 5:12-17). Adam and Eve
> died immediately, spiritually, and later, physically. Spiritual death was
> passed down by Adam unto all his descendants. Jesus Christ, the Son of
> God, was manifested to destroy the works of the devil, to redeem man, and
> restore man's relationship to God. Man's only hope of redemption is through
> Jesus Christ (1 John 3:8; John 14:6). There is no other Name under heaven
> by which anyone may be saved. (Acts 14:12) Jesus took our sin, and gave us
> His Righteousness! We have been MADE the righteousness of God in Christ; we
> were once sinners, but we have been saved by Grace, and are therefore no
> longer sinners, but we are now the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. 2
> Corinthians 5:21, "For He (God, the Father) hath made Him (Jesus) to be
> sin for us, who knew no sin; that we (believers) might be made the
> Righteousness of God in Him."

1. WE BELIEVE...The Scriptures are Inspired by Godand declare His design and
plan for mankind.

2. WE BELIEVE...There is only One True God–revealed in three
persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity).

3. WE BELIEVE...In the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was
both human and divine.

NOTICE: No statement says that they believe in a trinity, They did not tie
together the Godhead and a trinity. Many people in their ignorance use terms
inappropriately.

Notice a clear cut statement of what they believe. This is not forced unto
others, nor is it something to swear by.

Here is the rest of that page in case you are interested.

4. WE BELIEVE...though originally good,Man Willingly Fell to Sin–ushering
evil and death, both physical and spiritual, into the world.

5. WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through
'Salvation'(trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal
Savior). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

6. WE BELIEVE...and practice two ordinances—(1)Water Baptism by
Immersionafter re

penting of one's sins and receiving Christ's gift of salvation, and (2)Holy
Communion(the Lord's Supper) as a symbolic remembrance of Christ's suffering
and death for our salvation.

7. WE BELIEVE...the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Special
ExperienceFollowing Salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and
effective service, just as it did in New Testament times. [1 of 4 cardinal
doctrines of the AG]

8. WE BELIEVE...The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy
Spirit is ‘Speaking in Tongues’, as experienced on the Day of Pentecost
and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.

9. WE BELIEVE...Sanctification Initially Occurs at Salvationand is not only a
declaration that a believer is holy, but also a progressive lifelong process
of separating from evil as believers continually draw closer to God and
become more Christlike.

10. WE BELIEVE...The Church has a Mission to seek and save all who are lost
in sin. We believe 'the Church' is the Body of Christ and consists of the
people who, throughout time, have accepted God's offer of redemption
(regardless of religious denomination) through the sacrificial death of His
son Jesus Christ.

11. WE BELIEVE...A Divinely Called and Scripturally Ordained Leadership
Ministry Serves the Church. The Bible teaches that each of us under
leadership must commit ourselves to reach others for Christ, to worship Him
with other believers, to build up or edify the body of believers–the Church
and to Meet human need with ministries of love and compassion.

12. WE BELIEVE...Divine Healing of the Sick is a Privilege for Christians
Todayand is provided for in Christ's atonement (His sacrificial death on the
cross for our sins). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

13. WE BELIEVE...inThe Blessed Hope—When Jesus Raptures His Church Prior to
His Return to Earth(the second coming). At this future moment in time all
believers who have died will rise from their graves and will meet the Lord in
the air, and Christians who are alive will be caught up with them, to be with
the Lord forever. [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

14. WE BELIEVE...inThe Millennial Reign of Christwhen Jesus returns with His
saints at His second coming and begins His benevolent rule over earth for
1,000 years. This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national
Israel and the establishment of universal peace.

15. WE BELIEVE...A Final Judgment Will TakePlace for those who have rejected
Christ. They will be judged for their sin and consigned to eternal punishment
in a punishing lake of fire.

16. WE BELIEVE...and look forward to the perfectNew Heavens and a New
Earththat Christ is preparing for all people, of all time, who have accepted
Him. We will live and dwell with Him there forever following His millennial
reign on Earth. 'And so shall we forever be with the Lord!'
===========================================

I see nothing offensive there, nor do I see that you must imperatively
believe this or die, etc.

I also see no mention of a creed therein.

[Dr. Who]

On Dec 30, 2022, servant wrote

(in article<63af509c$0$2251$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

>
>
> > > Hmm, let's see how a church of the tradition of the wof guru kenneth hagin
> > > would answer. Here is their creed. Creed has this meaning from a web
> > > page:

What you claimed they said was not there, I posted from the link you provided
as it worked this time.
> One poster being gender recognitioned challenged thunk he had an idea:

>
> > As usual this post from the woman is a. Distortion of facts.
>

> Let's see where the real "distortion of fact" appears, I had noted from a web
> page:

>
> > > "The term is anglicized from Latin credo "I believe"

Wrong, from a latin to English dictionary

crēdo

transitive and intransitive verb III conjugation

View the declension of this word
(https://www.online-latin-dictionary.com/latin-dictionary-flexion.php?lemma=C
REDO100)

1 to trust, to entrust

2 to commit, to consign

3 to believe, to trust in, to rely on, to confide

4 to suppose

5 (money) to lend to, to make loans, to give credit

6 to believe, to think, to accept as true, to be sure
==========================================
Notice a creed is to commit to, to consign in latin. A creed therefore is for
one to follow, not just some statement of a person or organization that they
chose to believe, Creeds were used to out heretics, and to murder all those
that were considered heretics, thus totally opposing the word of God to just
shun them.

Not a statement of a persons belief as you falsely claimed.

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 6, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<l2jgrhpj8apoqhms8...@4ax.com>):

> Mark Earnest <gmea...@att.net> on Fri, 30 Dec 2022 13:28:26 -0800
> (PST) typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

> > On Friday, December 30, 2022 at 2:57:02 PM UTC-6, servant wrote:
> > > > > Hmm, let's see how a church of the tradition of the wof guru kenneth
> > > > > hagin
> > > > > would answer. Here is their creed. Creed has this meaning from a web
> > > > > page:

> > > One poster being gender recognitioned challenged thunk he had an idea:

> > > > As usual this post from the woman is a. Distortion of facts.

> > > Let's see where the real "distortion of fact" appears, I had noted from a
> > > web page:

> > > > > "The term is anglicized from Latin credo "I believe"

> > > Watch for the distortion:

> > > > This statement is blatantly false. See "credo" below.
> > > >

> > > > creed |krÄd|
> > >
> > > > noun
> > >
> > > Oopps, there it is;. the noun as a part of speech is confused with the
> > > meaning given in the above latin derived word.. The meaning -
> > > "I believe". Meaning is not a part of speech, a distortion of
> > > understanding, no?

> > > > a system of Christian or other religious belief; a faith: people of many
> > > > creeds and cultures.

> > > Sure, that which people believe per the above.
> > > This just repeats part of the first above as to orgin:

> > > > ORIGIN Old English creda, from Latin credo

> > > From a word origin and change dictionary we get a fuller bit of info:
> > >
> > > creed (n.)
> > > Old English creda "article or statement of Christian belief, confession
> > > of faith," from Latin credo "I believe" (see [3]credo). Broadening 17c.
> > > to mean "a statement of belief on any subject." Meaning "what is
> > > believed, accepted doctrine" is from 1610s. Related: Creedal.
> >
> > Why need a creed for anything? A creed is man's system.
>
> So you have no statement of what you believe. Got it.

No, you don't get it. :(
>
>
> Doesn't matter to you if someone believes that Jesus is an exalted
> master, one god of many, an instantiation of the divine ideal form of
> human it, or just a good man - it's all the same to you.

You are totally clueless about what I believe because you do not listen.

For instance, when I say that I believe, you must be born again, and give
these verses that state the same thing,...

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of
water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which
is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is
spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” (Joh
3:5-7, KJV)

It is not I that you have to believe, it is not I that is telling you what to
believe, or not. I simply stated what Jesus said, Jesus the Christ whom I
believe.

Somehow you and others say that I am putting my spin on it. Really? IS it not
the Lord who said this? And if that is the case then would not everything He
said, be correct? So then where is my spin?

I have no doubt that certain religions come up with their own ways, and
indoctrinate their followers with way. However, who rules? Jesus? Of some
religion?

If what I say I believe is well founded on the Word of God, and it conflicts
with your indoctrination, then blaming me is misplaced and I know that. Yet
it is difficult for you to accept. In that way you are no different that your
average atheist in that your beliefs supersede that of the Lord.

[P+Barker]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:


>You are totally clueless about what I believe because you do not listen.

We all listen to your BS as you wander through irrevelent sacred
scripture. 1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 * Son of man, turn your face to the south: preach against the
south, prophesy against the forest land in the south.
3 Say to the forest in the south: Hear the word of the LORD! Thus
says the Lord GOD: See! I am kindling a fire in you that shall devour
every green tree as well as every dry tree. The blazing flame shall
not be quenched so that from south to north every face shall be
scorched by it.

>For instance, when I say that I believe, you must be born again, and give
>these verses that state the same thing,...

OK. You must be born again.
Unfortunately, your "born again" and my "Born Again" are not the same
thing. water and spirit.



>笛esus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of

>water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Excellent.
Maybe you are learning.

>It is not I that you have to believe, it is not I that is telling you what to
>believe, or not. I simply stated what Jesus said, Jesus the Christ whom I
>believe.

Do you believe?

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 6, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<jvchrhp3fi4i30dam...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:
>
> > You are totally clueless about what I believe because you do not listen.
>
> We all listen to your BS as you wander through irrevelent sacred
> scripture. 1 The word of the LORD came to me:
> 2 * Son of man, turn your face to the south: preach against the
> south, prophesy against the forest land in the south.
> 3 Say to the forest in the south: Hear the word of the LORD! Thus
> says the Lord GOD: See! I am kindling a fire in you that shall devour
> every green tree as well as every dry tree. The blazing flame shall
> not be quenched so that from south to north every face shall be
> scorched by it.
>
> > For instance, when I say that I believe, you must be born again, and give
> > these verses that state the same thing,...
>
> OK. You must be born again.
> Unfortunately, your "born again" and my "Born Again" are not the same
> thing. water and spirit.

You do not know what that means. And your understanding is that of the RCC
doctrine and dogma, not of the word of God, as you have been shown, many,
many, times.
>
>
> > “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of

> > water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
>
> Excellent.
> Maybe you are learning.

Learning what? That you mock scripture and snip it out to suit yourself?

>
>
> > It is not I that you have to believe, it is not I that is telling you what
> > to
> > believe, or not. I simply stated what Jesus said, Jesus the Christ whom I
> > believe.
>
> Do you believe?

I believe in Jesus, the Christ, plus I have faith in him.

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without
works is dead?” (Jas 2:19-20, KJV)

[P+Barker]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:

more nuthin.

<Yawn>

[Dr. Who]

On Jan 7, 2023, P+Barker wrote
(in article<dr5jrht59ptmc5kn1...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> wrote:
>
> more nuthin.
>
> <Yawn>

Then keep it to yourself.

[Dr. Who]

On Feb 24, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<60nhvhpc7nef9e4ts...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:20:34 -0800

> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

> > > > > Doesn't matter to you if someone believes that Jesus is an exalted
> > > > > master, one god of many, an instantiation of the divine ideal form of
> > > > > human it, or just a good man - it's all the same to you.
> > > >
> > > > You are totally clueless about what I believe because you do not listen.
> > >

> > > Cutting and pasting is not the same thing.
> > >
> > > Robert, Robert, Robert. Sigh. You have stated repeatedly that you
> > > have nothing you will affirm as a what you believe. You have declared
> > > (perhaps not in so many words) how the phrase "I believe" is nothing
> > > more than man made traditions.
> >
> > You keep insisting that "Creed" means nothing more than, "I believe". In
> > spite of how the various creeds have been utilized as something to swear to,
> > to adhere to, as well as to judge others who do no agree with your creed
> > that
> > they are heretics worthy of death.
>
> You mean like the Radical Reform Protestants in Geneva?
>
> Or like the Puritans of New England (and the Commonwealth of
> England for that matter.)
>
> The funny part is that Robert's Romophobia puts him in the cleft
> stick of trying to find a rational to explain why when he does
> something like the Romans, it is acceptable. Unlike when They(tm) do
> it. E.G, Read the bible, quote the bible, sing hymns, sing, pray
> regularly, gather together with other like minded believers (assuming
> that he is not, to use part of Augustine's phrasing, a "solo
> Christian.).
> I wonder if he is one of those modernists who doesn't have a cross
> in the meeting place, but a stylized dove, if not a blank wall.
> >
> > I have repeatedly told you that I can be judged by the word of God, IOW's
> > the
> > NC scriptures.
>
> "NC" Scriptures? Is this a new translation or edition? (Probably
> just autocowrecks, but still...)
>
> Yes, Robert follows a book. A book that he has admitted he follows
> because his god said it was all that he needs. Never mind he is
> dismissing those passages which do not reinforce his personal
> interpretations as "corruptions of the text", no doubt the result of
> Constantine founding the Roman Catholic Church.

Pyotr, I know that you are not stupid, nor totally ignorant, yet you are
spiritually blind and deaf.

When I said all creeds, that means the same in English as in Greek. ALL
CREEDS. No sect is excluded by my statement, and no sect is justified either.
Jesus said to swear by nothing but let your yeses be Yes, and your no's, No.

As to symbols and things? The early ekklesia had nothing but either open air
or four walls. As to objects? If you adore, worship, honor, pray before,
kneel before or any other form of worship then they are the idols before you
to pay homage to.

As to following a book? It is sad to see that you cannot separate a book from
the scriptures as given by God, it is likewise sad to see that you do not
believe nor understand that the Holy Spirit leads a believer into all truth.

Bottom line is you have an agenda to follow, you have a phobia that demands
that the religion of men takes full priority over your thoughts and actions.
That you have a phobia that isolates the Church of Rome and its daughter
religions and not only separates then but places them higher than all the
other religions of men. You placing Rome higher than Jesus Christ, and for
that reason you feel it correct to malign all other religions.

The believers in Jesus Christ are all of one body. All headed up by Jesus.
Your Agenda is focused on following the teachings of men and their self
constructed religions and churches.

[Robert]

On Apr 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<nl3u4i193k2uchgio...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:20:34 -0800

> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >

> > > > > Doesn't matter to you if someone believes that Jesus is an exalted
> > > > > master, one god of many, an instantiation of the divine ideal form of
> > > > > human it, or just a good man - it's all the same to you.
> > > >
> > > > You are totally clueless about what I believe because you do not listen.
> > >

> > > Cutting and pasting is not the same thing.
> > >
> > > Robert, Robert, Robert. Sigh. You have stated repeatedly that you
> > > have nothing you will affirm as a what you believe. You have declared
> > > (perhaps not in so many words) how the phrase "I believe" is nothing
> > > more than man made traditions.
> >
> > You keep insisting that "Creed" means nothing more than, "I believe". In
> > spite of how the various creeds have been utilized as something to swear to,
> > to adhere to, as well as to judge others who do no agree with your creed
> > that
> > they are heretics worthy of death.
>

> Sigh.
>
> I find it interesting how Robert will declare something heretical,
> yet goes ballistic over the idea that an organization might want to
> have a statement of Things Which Are to be Believed if one is going to
> be a member in good standing.

Ballistic? Knowing that religions war with others, and use their individual
Creeds, as written by men and therefore requires rewriting from time to time,
as a cudgel to beat and murder others. To support the right of religion to do
that, the woman brings up other religions who did similar things which was part
the dogma they inherited from the RCC. Thereby justifying the sin of it all,
which is totally opposed to the Gospel Message.

Jesus said,...

Mat 5:33-37

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt
not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's
throne:

35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is
the city of the great King.

36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black.

37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more
than these cometh of evil.

Would you dare mock and knock him for his teachings?writes

>
> >
> > I have repeatedly told you that I can be judged by the word of God, IOW's
> > the
> > NC scriptures.
>

> Robert can go by The Book; I'm attempting to follow God the Word.

Then read it so that you can have an idea of what he expects. Invite the "word"
into your heart. Let Him flood you with Joy and Peace.

[Robert]

On Apr 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<4m3u4i5frnc4j1gnd...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:20:34 -0800

> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >

> > > So, having said that, and had it pointed out, now you want to say
> > > you have a list of "I believes" which you follow and
> >
> > And what?
> >
> > Where is your focus on Christ? Where is your focus on "the way"? Where is
> > your focus on the words of Christ in regards to the 7 ekklesia's?
>
> Hmmm. Robert can read all those scriptures, and then continue
> blithely on presuming that the Orthodox don't follow scriptures.

If they are not Born Again, they cannot.

Php 2:13-16

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do ofhis good
pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in
the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in
the world;

16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ,
that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Sun, 30 Apr 2023 20:18:36 -0700 typed in

alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>On Apr 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<4m3u4i5frnc4j1gnd...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:20:34 -0800
>> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>> >
>> > > So, having said that, and had it pointed out, now you want to say
>> > > you have a list of "I believes" which you follow and
>> >
>> > And what?
>> >
>> > Where is your focus on Christ? Where is your focus on "the way"? Where is
>> > your focus on the words of Christ in regards to the 7 ekklesia's?
>>
>> Hmmm. Robert can read all those scriptures, and then continue
>> blithely on presuming that the Orthodox don't follow scriptures.
>
>If they are not Born Again, they cannot.
>
>Php 2:13-16
>
>13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do ofhis good
>pleasure.
>
>14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
>
>15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in
>the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in
>the world;
>
>16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ,
>that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Like I said : Robert can read the citations and continue to
believe the Orthodox don't follow scripture.
>
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[Robert]

On May 30, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<t9hd7i9iupucd42m0...@4ax.com>):

Hmmm. That is great news! Are you trying to tell me that they are now following
scripture over tradition and rites? That scripture, the Word of God, is
becoming a priority now? That would be great news.

Are you all now depending on V13 above now, and dropping the focus on steps?

[servant]

The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
"born again" would not happen:

https://www.rhema.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=138

It contains this declaration of Trinity:

"o Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father, the Son,
and the Holy Spirit."

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Tue, 30 May 2023 23:16:47 -0700 typed in

Poor Robert. Has no idea what the Orthodox actually believe, nor
what the Apostles taught.

Can't tell the difference between "do these things" and "ritual".

[Robert]

On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
> contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
> "born again" would not happen:

He CLEARLY stated "what we believe". Gave the scriptural basis for his beliefs.

Did he state that others MUST follow it?

Nope. It was also not a document meant to draw a line in the sand whereby all
others should be judged and killed, as was the Nicene Creed drawn up and
executed.
>
>
> https://www.rhema.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=13

> 8
>
> It contains this declaration of Trinity:

There was no mention or usage of the word "Trinity" anywhere on that page. So
why the deception?

>
>
> "o Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father, the Son,
> and the Holy Spirit."

Three distinct persons unified in thought, deed, and purpose are indeed as one.

You as yet have provided no understanding or usage of the word Trinity, in the
Godly sense. It is a hocus pocus word to you.

[Robert]

On May 31, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<a6pe7idrdu3ldn1ds...@4ax.com>):

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and
election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:” (2Pe 1:10)

What of "These things" is ritualistic?

Also, again you say that no one else knows what the Orthodox believes, which
obviously includes you, as you mention none of them, and indeed when I showed
you in years past what one of your most revered leaders from Mt. Athos wrote
without me telling you where I got the info from, both you and the woman balked
and brayed saying it was all wrong and not part of your beliefs. And when I
finally let you all in on where I got all the info, who wrote it, and where you
could download his book from, and for free, all you people could do was spit
and sputter.

Neither of you have recovered from that experience.

[No one]

On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

Another of your totally incorrect posts.

[pyotr filipivich]

No one <no...@none.con> on Wed, 31 May 2023 17:18:11 -0700 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

Based on what? Must be another ex cathedra pronouncement. Because
you sure seem unable to provide actual reasons.

[No one]

On May 31, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<9asf7i19e7mmtodev...@4ax.com>):

> No one <no...@none.con> on Wed, 31 May 2023 17:18:11 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
> > (in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):
> >
> > > The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
> > > contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
> > > "born again" would not happen:
> > >
> > > https://www.rhema.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid
> > > =13
> > > 8
> > >
> > > It contains this declaration of Trinity:
> > >
> > > "o Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father, the Son,
> > > and the Holy Spirit."
> >
> > Another of your totally incorrect posts.
>
> Based on what? Must be another ex cathedra pronouncement. Because
> you sure seem unable to provide actual reasons.

I was not asked for any. One was mentioned in the links servant provided. I'm
guess that you did not read all the material of this thread as given above?

[pyotr filipivich]

No one <no...@none.con> on Wed, 31 May 2023 22:28:18 -0700 typed in

alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>On May 31, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<9asf7i19e7mmtodev...@4ax.com>):
>
>> No one <no...@none.con> on Wed, 31 May 2023 17:18:11 -0700 typed in
>> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>> > On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
>> > (in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):
>> >
>> > > The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
>> > > contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
>> > > "born again" would not happen:
>> > >
>> > > https://www.rhema.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid
>> > > =13
>> > > 8
>> > >
>> > > It contains this declaration of Trinity:
>> > >
>> > > "o Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father, the Son,
>> > > and the Holy Spirit."
>> >
>> > Another of your totally incorrect posts.
>>
>> Based on what? Must be another ex cathedra pronouncement. Because
>> you sure seem unable to provide actual reasons.
>
>I was not asked for any. One was mentioned in the links servant provided. I'm
>guess that you did not read all the material of this thread as given above?

And once again, another lone ranger is too tired to repeat his
reasons. Just accept that he did.

Sigh..

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Wed, 31 May 2023 09:37:26 -0700 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
>(in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):
>
>> The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
>> contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
>> "born again" would not happen:
>
>He CLEARLY stated "what we believe". Gave the scriptural basis for his beliefs.
>
>Did he state that others MUST follow it?

Does Robert really feel that a statement of belief is just a nice
"mission statement" and not defining what it is which one is to
believe if one is to be "One of Us"?

>
>Nope. It was also not a document meant to draw a line in the sand whereby all
>others should be judged and killed, as was the Nicene Creed drawn up and
>executed.

Still fixated on that Romophobia aren't you?

But as has been said many times: no creed, no heresy.

Robert seems unable to grasp the notion that the Nicene creed was
written to "canonize the obvious" - namely what was and wasn't
Christian teaching. Robert would be hard pressed to explain why
Arius was preaching heresy, seeing as he too had scriptures to back
him up.

[No one]

On Jun 14, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<lpok8i5qc56um4g10...@4ax.com>):

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, are United and One. Similar
to Man and Woman united as one in marriage, and Jesus Christ, and the
believers are united as one.

[Robert]

On Jun 14, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<l8ok8ih2e7kkagons...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Wed, 31 May 2023 22:25:05 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >
> > > > Between what years?
> > >
> > > APOSTOLIC CHURCH /APOSTOLIC AGE:
> > > the period covered by the NT until the death of the Apostles.
> > > EARLY CHURCH:
> > > the period between the Apostolic church and the First Council of Nicaea in
> > > 325.
> > > GREAT SCHISM:
> > > East and the West church split 1024.
> > > PROTESTANT REVOLUTION:
> > > 1500s split from the Roman church.
> >
> > Then you consider the early church to be before the RCC as decreed by
> > Constantine?
>
> LOL - poor Robert. His scholarship is so lacking he believes that
> those who had been tortured for Christ under the Emperors would
> naturally adopt the Emperors religion because he stuck a cross on his
> battle standards.

Everything you wrote in that paragraph is patently False and without merit.

There was also a time of peace between the Rome and the Christians way before
Constantine.

>
>
> > When I see the "Church of" in the NT it speaks primarily of the Church of
> > God.
> > In a couple places it refers the location of a particular church, which in
> > reality is an ekklesia.
> > If course this means specifically the people who are born again and have
> > faith
> > in Jesus Christ. Biblically speaking unless connoted otherwise.
>
> And the real funny bit is that Robert seems unaware that no where
> in the New Testament does it mention the New Testament Churches having
> a written New Testament to follow.

So little you know of the NT Scriptures. It is widely known and also reported
in the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures where passed around
the ekklesia far and wide.

It is also known that John the apostle had canonized the NT scriptures, that
they were published and based around the known world. At that time.

It was also widely known and published by ALL the authors that the NT was in
fact the New Covenant of the Blood of Jesus.

Therefore since I am, according to you, "one whose scholarship is sadly
lacking" what position is it that you hold to so strongly being as you knew
none of these things.

Would that not put you in the position of being dumber than dumb? LOL! ;)

[Robert]

On Jun 14, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<1kkk8idiq7cgdir9e...@4ax.com>):

> Ollie Smth <ollies...@gmail.com> on Fri, 24 Feb 2023 16:27:14 -0800
> (PST) typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

> But I am right. Robert has nothing to define "heresy" but his own
> opinion. Not least because he seems unable to provide a short,
> concise, statement of belief also known as a creed.
> I haven't the time to go through all the scriptures cited by those
> who believed that Jesus was a created being. It is not a matter of
> having a text to quote to prove one is right, but does that
> interpretation comply with the faith handed down from the Apostles.
> (Which is another thing that the Roberts of the world consider
> anathema.)

As you would say, no scripture, no proof.

>
>
> > >
> > > When I said all creeds, that means the same in English as in Greek. ALL
> > > CREEDS. No sect is excluded by my statement, and no sect is justified
> > > either.
> > > Jesus said to swear by nothing but let your yeses be Yes, and your no's,
> > > No.
>

> Robert, once again missing the point, seems to believe ... well,
> who knows really? He has a vague "creed" that he clings to strongly,
> and the first line in it no doubt would be "I do not believe in
> creeds."

A statement of fact is not a creed to be followed or taught as a dividing line
in the sand.
>
> >
> > Should we take the oath when asked to testify before the court?
> >
> > What about the pled

> >
> > > As to symbols and things? The early ekklesia had nothing but either open
> > > air
> > > or four walls. As to objects? If you adore, worship, honor, pray before,
> > > kneel before or any other form of worship then they are the idols before
> > > you
> > > to pay homage to.
> >

> > Not true.
> > See https://tinyurl.com/3thx25mz

> >
> > > As to following a book? It is sad to see that you cannot separate a book
> > > from
> > > the scriptures as given by God, it is likewise sad to see that you do not
> > > believe nor understand that the Holy Spirit leads a believer into all
> > > truth.
>

> Now, the question is: is that something Robert gives credence to,
> or not?
> Well, obviously he does, but that is because his deity gave him a
> book.

That you hold traditions of men higher that the Word of the Heavenly Father you
made real obvious to all in that statement. That you would seek to mock the God
I serve, is on your head, and your head alone. I would mightily suggest that
you seek forgiven from the Father of Lights.

>
> > >
> > > Bottom line is you have an agenda to follow, you have a phobia that demands
> > > that the religion of men takes full priority over your thoughts and
> > > actions.
> > > That you have a phobia that isolates the Church of Rome and its daughter
> > > religions and not only separates then but places them higher than all the
> > > other religions of men. You placing Rome higher than Jesus Christ, and for
> > > that reason you feel it correct to malign all other religions.
> > >
> > > The believers in Jesus Christ are all of one body. All headed up by Jesus.
> > > Your Agenda is focused on following the teachings of men and their self
> > > constructed religions and churches.
>

> Sorry Robert, but that is your belief.

Your agenda has openly been stated by you.

As to what I stated, regarding one body, is fully supported in Scripture which
has been pointed out to you many times.

>
>
> Because as you have repeatedly demonstrated, you do not believe
> that the Church which Christ established was able to continue through
> "dungeon, fire, and sword" and even being supported by the Emperor.

You speak nonsense., you cannot even described such a church.

[Robert]

On Jun 14, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<chok8ilvjao063l6l...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Wed, 31 May 2023 09:37:26 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > On May 31, 2023, servant wrote
> > (in article<6477649c$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):
> >
> > > The creed of kenneth hagin, the godfather wof guru, it as much says what it
> > > contains is "necessary" for salvation. If one did not believe and follow
> > > "born again" would not happen:
> >
> > He CLEARLY stated "what we believe". Gave the scriptural basis for his
> > beliefs.
> >
> > Did he state that others MUST follow it?
>
> Does Robert really feel that a statement of belief is just a nice
> "mission statement" and not defining what it is which one is to
> believe if one is to be "One of Us"?

Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our Faith, He stated that he alone
is the way and that no man can come to the Heavenly Father but by Him. Jesus
said and taught others to share the Gospel around the world. One of Us is
exclusively those who Follow Christ as His disciples, and not some religious
fraternity. By no mans rule can one judge another as to who is in and who is
not.

If indeed no man can access the Heavenly Father other than through Jesus and
his work for us, that would then exclude any dead Saint, and also exclude Mary,
as Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

>
> >
> > Nope. It was also not a document meant to draw a line in the sand whereby
> > all
> > others should be judged and killed, as was the Nicene Creed drawn up and
> > executed.
>
> Still fixated on that Romophobia aren't you?

Any scholar of the events of that time knew that it was used for that purpose.

I have no fear of the seat of Satan.

>
>
> But as has been said many times: no creed, no heresy.

Did Mary reveal that to you?

>
>
> Robert seems unable to grasp the notion that the Nicene creed was
> written to "canonize the obvious" - namely what was and wasn't
> Christian teaching. Robert would be hard pressed to explain why
> Arius was preaching heresy, seeing as he too had scriptures to back
> him up.

Satan also often quotes scriptures, so does the woman, yet generally out of
context.

Your point?

You cannot even show whether Arius was one thing of another without searching
the Net and the problem with that is, you might just quote others who like
yourself are wordily inadequate in such matters. ;)

[servant]

One poster says he "don't need no stincking creed". But his godfather wof
guru of his religious tradition declares his creed to express the path to
salvation. Here is found his "what we believe" statement,ie. creed:

https://www.rhema.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=138

As do many creeds it starts with the nature of trinity:

THE GODHEAD--Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father,
the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being coequal (Deut. 6:4; Phil. 2:6).

another of his creeds statements relates to theosis:

SANCTIFICATION--The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the
Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet
progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and
continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return (Heb.
12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor.
1:30).

He expounds on this "progressive sanctification,ie. theosis "element of his
creed here:

Seven Steps to the Highest Kind of Faith

https://www.hopefaithprayer.com/faith/kenneth-hagin-faith-lesson-no-16-seven-steps-to-the-highest-kind-of-faith-part-i/

but I wanted to bring them together so that you can check up on the
progress you are making and get ready for the final exam, so to speak.

[Robert]

On Jun 15, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<648b3610$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> One poster says he "don't need no stincking creed". But his godfather wof
> guru of his religious tradition declares his creed to express the path to
> salvation. Here is found his "what we believe" statement,ie. creed:

I follow no man save Jesus and Him Crucified. No man is my godfather, liar and
false accuser.

When you, just like the JW puts their own definitions to the words of others
you are of your father, the evil one. When someone says. "I Believe" that is
their statement of belief, not a creed. It was not, nor is it used, to be
spoken in vain rote so as to appear Holy, like a prostitute partaking in a
Mass.

>
> As do many creeds it starts with the nature of trinity:
>
> THE GODHEAD--Our God is One, but manifested in three Persons--the Father,
> the Son, and the Holy Spirit, being coequal (Deut. 6:4; Phil. 2:6).

A Godhead is far different than a trinity. There is no trinity mentioned
anywhere in the Bible. It is a greek philosophy.

>
> another of his creeds statements relates to theosis:
>
> SANCTIFICATION--The Bible teaches that without holiness no man can see the
> Lord. We believe in the Doctrine of Sanctification as a definite, yet
> progressive work of grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and
> continuing until the consummation of salvation at Christ's return (Heb.
> 12:14; 1 Thess. 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:12-14; 1 Cor.
> 1:30).
>

> but I wanted to bring them together so that you can check up on the
> progress you are making and get ready for the final exam, so to speak.

Sorry but the scriptures say otherwise as I pointed out quite recently. When a
person is born again they are made the righteousness of God the Father. In that
moment in time as fully explained via the scripture. Nothing that you assumed
here is correct, an it is also something that Hagin did not infer. You did.

You use the justifications of the JW that you claim to despise for your false
accusations.

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:36:50 -0700, Robert <Rob...@none.non> wrote:

>When you, just like the JW puts their own definitions to the words of others
>you are of your father, the evil one. When someone says. "I Believe" that is
>their statement of belief, not a creed. It was not, nor is it used, to be
>spoken in vain rote so as to appear Holy, like a prostitute partaking in a
>Mass.

A creed is a statement of belief, and a statement of belief is a
creed.

The word "creed" MEANS "a statement of belief".



--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

[Steve Hayes]

On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:36:50 -0700, Robert <Rob...@none.non> wrote:

>When you, just like the JW puts their own definitions to the words of others
>you are of your father, the evil one. When someone says. "I Believe" that is
>their statement of belief, not a creed. It was not, nor is it used, to be
>spoken in vain rote so as to appear Holy, like a prostitute partaking in a
>Mass.

[Robert]

On Jun 15, 2023, Steve Hayes wrote
(in article<qnpn8i55mkjgf0ce6...@4ax.com>):

> On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 14:36:50 -0700, Robert<Rob...@none.non> wrote:
>
> > When you, just like the JW puts their own definitions to the words of others
> > you are of your father, the evil one. When someone says. "I Believe" that is
> > their statement of belief, not a creed. It was not, nor is it used, to be
> > spoken in vain rote so as to appear Holy, like a prostitute partaking in a
> > Mass.
>
> A creed is a statement of belief, and a statement of belief is a
> creed.
>
> The word "creed" MEANS "a statement of belief".

Creed

CREED, n. [This word seems to have been introduced by the use of the Latin
credo, I believe, at the beginning of the Apostles creed, or brief system of
Christian faith. See Creed.]

1. A brief summary of the articles of Christian faith; a symbol; as the
Apostolic creed.

2. That which is believed; any system of principles which are believed or
professed; as a political creed

Webster

The Nicene Creed is part of the profession of faith required of those
undertaking important functions within the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

That is my under standing of a creed. And that it is useful to judge others by,
and for that reason many were murdered as heretics of the Above.

I can find no such word in koine Greek. It is also not taught in the manner
above by any Apostle.

It has become tied to Christianity because of the longstanding religions
mentioned above and so accepted as a traditional truth, when in fact it is not
taught in scripture, and the same thing holds true for the word "trinity" which
God taught not one writer of his Holy Scripture to use.

For many thousands of years the Word of the Heavenly Father has been passed on
to men to write. He would not omit something that was of any import to us for
faith.in Him.

I am totally open to Gods word and I seek not to limit him in any way, and I
have grown in many areas enough to know to be open to him from past mistakes.

[servant]

One can see in this examples creedal roots in the godfather wof guru
kenneth hagin's creed and declaration of theosis in "progressive
sanctification" presented previously:

'Word Of Faith Church | Core Beliefs'

https://www.wordoffaithchurch.com/core

Sanctification

The Bible teaches that without holwof g

iness no man can see the Lord. We

believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive

work of

grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the

consummation of salvation.
(Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18;
Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)

[Robert]

On Jun 16, 2023, servant wrote
(in article<648c99f7$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the
form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:” (Php 2:5-6)

We therefore should be of the same mind as Jesus?

Where is there any progressiveness in that?

[servant]

>> One can see in this examples creedal roots in the godfather wof guru
>> kenneth hagin's creed and declaration of theosis in "progressive
>> sanctification" presented previously:
>>
>> 'Word Of Faith Church | Core Beliefs'
>>
>> https://www.wordoffaithchurch.com/core
>>
>> Sanctification
>>
>> The Bible teaches that without holwof g
>> iness no man can see the Lord. We
>> believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive
>> work of
>>
>> grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the
>> consummation of salvation.
>> (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18;
>> Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
>

>āLet this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the
>form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:ā (Php 2:5-6)

>
>We therefore should be of the same mind as Jesus?
>
>Where is there any progressiveness in that?

All over the place:

'96 Bible Verses about Conforming To The Image Of Christ'

https://www.openbible.info/topics/conforming_to_the_image_of_christ

[Robert]

On Jun 16, 2023, servant wrote

(in article<648cbd40$0$2245$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> > > One can see in this examples creedal roots in the godfather wof guru
> > > kenneth hagin's creed and declaration of theosis in "progressive
> > > sanctification" presented previously:
> > >
> > > 'Word Of Faith Church | Core Beliefs'
> > >
> > > https://www.wordoffaithchurch.com/core
> > >
> > > Sanctification
> > >
> > > The Bible teaches that without holwof g
> > > iness no man can see the Lord. We
> > > believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive
> > > work of
> > >
> > > grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the
> > > consummation of salvation.
> > > (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18;
> > > Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
> >

> > âLet this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the
> > form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:â (Php 2:5-6)

> >
> > We therefore should be of the same mind as Jesus?
> >
> > Where is there any progressiveness in that?
>
> All over the place:
>
> '96 Bible Verses about Conforming To The Image Of Christ'
>
> https://www.openbible.info/topics/conforming_to_the_image_of_christ

Wrong. We are what He made us in Christ, a new creature old things are passed
away.

Therefore we are want we are. In Christ.

Do we need our minds renewed? Certainly.

Does it earn and benefits or merits? No.

If a person is Born Again, and dies immediately thereafter they go to God as He
is.

The benefit of living on this earth is to serve him in whatever capacity he
desires.

The retraining of our minds enables the fleshly side to communicate with the
spiritual side and grow in Christ, yet in our spirit we have all knowledge. You
van redeem your time on earth yet your body will not be redeemed until Christ
returns, which BTW, is yet another one of his miraculous gifts to the Born
Again Believer. At any state in ones life after they have been born again, they
will pass from this life to the next as God made them when Born Again. That is,
as long as they have not departed from the faith per Heb 10.

So any steps you do are simply a self righteous mindset according to your
beliefs, and we all know what God thinks about that,

[tesla sTinker]

On 6/16/2023 12:51 PM, servant scribbled:

We all know there is a Creed, and that Doc Who, is an idiot heretic.
First Commandment of God demands it. the rest of this, is a waste of
time. Of course you have to do it.

Lets see you be forgiven for your sins while you are still committing
sin.???
Anyone who believes that is possible, is a big lying to himself and
everyone else ass hole liar. But of course, we already can tell that
part about them,, Just look at the fake Biden.

[Dr.Who]

On Jun 20, 2023, tesla sTinker wrote
(in article <u6t7gv$2i4l5$1...@dont-email.me>):

>
> On 6/16/2023 12:51 PM, servant scribbled:
> > > > One can see in this examples creedal roots in the godfather wof guru
> > > > kenneth hagin's creed and declaration of theosis in "progressive
> > > > sanctification" presented previously:
> > > >
> > > > 'Word Of Faith Church | Core Beliefs'
> > > >
> > > > https://www.wordoffaithchurch.com/core
> > > >
> > > > Sanctification
> > > >
> > > > The Bible teaches that without holwof g
> > > > iness no man can see the Lord. We
> > > > believe in the doctrine of sanctification as a definite, yet progressive
> > > > work of
> > > >
> > > > grace, commencing at the time of regeneration and continuing until the
> > > > consummation of salvation.
> > > > (Hebrews 12:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23; 2 Peter 3:18; 2 Corinthians 3:18;
> > > > Philippians 3:12-14; 1 Corinthians 1:30)
> > >

> > > âLet this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in
> > > the
> > > form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:â (Php 2:5-6)

> > >
> > > We therefore should be of the same mind as Jesus?
> > >
> > > Where is there any progressiveness in that?
> >
> > All over the place:
> >
> > '96 Bible Verses about Conforming To The Image Of Christ'
> >
> > https://www.openbible.info/topics/conforming_to_the_image_of_christ
>
> We all know there is a Creed, and that Doc Who, is an idiot heretic.
> First Commandment of God demands it. the rest of this, is a waste of
> time. Of course you have to do it.

Prove it. And while you are at it, tell us the 1st commandment in the New
Covenant.

Look at your fine usage of English that a typical RC priest who is a
sodomite, and tell us how pure you are.

[Robert]

On Jun 23, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<2qjc9ids26obpifq4...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Wed, 14 Jun 2023 21:19:46 -0700 typed in

> Yes, and????
>
> You must have missed the Diocletian persecutions.
>
> Or the Edict of Milan, which legitimized the Christians.
>
> Or the records of the Nicene-Constantinople.
>
> Which comes as no surprise.

I did not miss them, but you did miss the period of time without persecution of
the Believers by Rome.

I have also read the minutes of the conference that Constantine called, read
the reactions of the people there. Have you?

>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > When I see the "Church of" in the NT it speaks primarily of the Church of
> > > > God.
> > > > In a couple places it refers the location of a particular church, which in
> > > > reality is an ekklesia.
> > > > If course this means specifically the people who are born again and have
> > > > faith
> > > > in Jesus Christ. Biblically speaking unless connoted otherwise.
> > >
> > > And the real funny bit is that Robert seems unaware that no where
> > > in the New Testament does it mention the New Testament Churches having
> > > a written New Testament to follow.
> >
> > So little you know of the NT Scriptures. It is widely known and also
> > reported
> > in the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures where passed
> > around the ekklesia far and wide.
>

> Where was this reported?

In the various epistles, letters. Not from any apocryphal scriptures.

>
> >
> > It is also known that John the apostle had canonized the NT scriptures, that
> > they were published and based around the known world. At that time.
>

> Really? And I'm suppose to take your word for it?

I have no reason or cause to lie to you or others regarding this. I have also
mentioned or written about it over the years. Maybe if you searched for the
truth by yourself you might be convinced, if you are of a mind seeking the
truth of the matter. However, I long, long, ago recognized that if I write
something down, even if it be scripture, your knee jerk reaction is to deny it
all. Yet truth is not dependent upon your authorization.

>
> >
> > It was also widely known and published by ALL the authors that the NT was in
> > fact the New Covenant of the Blood of Jesus.
>

> Of course you have citations which back this up.

When the day comes that you seek the word of God and read it all and Gods truth
you will see it just like the rest of mankind who has sought the Lord and Found
Him.

>
>
> > Therefore since I am, according to you, "one whose scholarship is sadly
> > lacking" what position is it that you hold to so strongly being as you knew
> > none of these things.
>

> You do know, there are a lot of claims about what happened a long
> time ago. Most of which are not supported by the oldest writings.
> Many of which seem to have been discovered in the last century or two.

No, I did not know that.
>
> The fact remains, Robert old bean, that you are the one who has no
> short definite statement of what it is you believe, only your own
> opinion of what is Christianity (which you still seem unable to
> elucidate). And you make many assertions which you seem unable to
> support beyond saying "I posted that previously, I don't keep
> notes,"blah, blah, blah".

I have stated to you in 25 words of less, as you requested. I posted it several
times, and also made a particular note of it to the Orthodox NG that you
ignored it, or dismissed it, is on you. You are right in that I do not keep
notes. And that would be to my detriment if I contradicted myself constantly.
You, who for years stockpiled what I wrote, would have been able to point out
my inconsistencies had there been any.
> Your credibility is so far in the red, it glows in the dark.

Which I have already stated that this is your belief. What is ironic is that
the very version of the NT which I use and you disparage and say I cannot prove
that it is so, is the very same as you use.

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>> > It is also known that John the apostle had canonized the NT scriptures, that
>> > they were published and based around the known world. At that time.
>>
>> Really? And I'm suppose to take your word for it?
>
>I have no reason or cause to lie to you or others regarding this. I have also
>mentioned or written about it over the years. Maybe if you searched for the
>truth by yourself you might be convinced, if you are of a mind seeking the
>truth of the matter. However, I long, long, ago recognized that if I write
>something down, even if it be scripture, your knee jerk reaction is to deny it
>all. Yet truth is not dependent upon your authorization.
>>
>> >
>> > It was also widely known and published by ALL the authors that the NT was in
>> > fact the New Covenant of the Blood of Jesus.
>>
>> Of course you have citations which back this up.
>
>When the day comes that you seek the word of God and read it all and Gods truth
>you will see it just like the rest of mankind who has sought the Lord and Found
>Him.

In other words: Robert still has no citations for what he asserts.

--
pyotr filipivich

Dude, you're wrong on basic things so often that it's actually
embarrassing.

Your credibility on any point is so far in the red it's started a
glorious revolution and is confiscating farmland.

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>

>> > > > Then you consider the early church to be before the RCC as decreed by
>> > > > Constantine?
>> > >
>> > > LOL - poor Robert. His scholarship is so lacking he believes that
>> > > those who had been tortured for Christ under the Emperors would
>> > > naturally adopt the Emperors religion because he stuck a cross on his
>> > > battle standards.
>> >
>> > Everything you wrote in that paragraph is patently False and without merit.
>> >
>> > There was also a time of peace between the Rome and the Christians way
>> > before Constantine.
>>
>> Yes, and????
>>
>> You must have missed the Diocletian persecutions.
>>
>> Or the Edict of Milan, which legitimized the Christians.
>>
>> Or the records of the Nicene-Constantinople.
>>
>> Which comes as no surprise.
>
>I did not miss them, but you did miss the period of time without persecution of
>the Believers by Rome.

And that was when?

>
>I have also read the minutes of the conference that Constantine called, read
>the reactions of the people there. Have you?

Yes. But I think you once again believe that what was written in
"the minutes" were all that happened.
--
pyotr filipivich
Denial is not a river in Egypt, "Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme,
a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the
denying person knows the truth on some level." LTC Grossman.

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>

>> > > > When I see the "Church of" in the NT it speaks primarily of the Church of
>> > > > God.
>> > > > In a couple places it refers the location of a particular church, which in
>> > > > reality is an ekklesia.
>> > > > If course this means specifically the people who are born again and have
>> > > > faith
>> > > > in Jesus Christ. Biblically speaking unless connoted otherwise.
>> > >
>> > > And the real funny bit is that Robert seems unaware that no where
>> > > in the New Testament does it mention the New Testament Churches having
>> > > a written New Testament to follow.
>> >
>> > So little you know of the NT Scriptures. It is widely known and also
>> > reported
>> > in the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures where passed
>> > around the ekklesia far and wide.
>>
>> Where was this reported?
>
>In the various epistles, letters. Not from any apocryphal scriptures.

So you have no idea, but you believe it must have happened, so you
believe it.

Got it.

[Robert]

On Jun 25, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<5uvh9i1ch8ll3r6sl...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > > > It is also known that John the apostle had canonized the NT scriptures,
> > > > that
> > > > they were published and based around the known world. At that time.
> > >
> > > Really? And I'm suppose to take your word for it?
> >
> > I have no reason or cause to lie to you or others regarding this. I have
> > also
> > mentioned or written about it over the years. Maybe if you searched for the
> > truth by yourself you might be convinced, if you are of a mind seeking the
> > truth of the matter. However, I long, long, ago recognized that if I write
> > something down, even if it be scripture, your knee jerk reaction is to deny
> > it
> > all. Yet truth is not dependent upon your authorization.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > It was also widely known and published by ALL the authors that the NT was
> > > > in
> > > > fact the New Covenant of the Blood of Jesus.
> > >
> > > Of course you have citations which back this up.
> >
> > When the day comes that you seek the word of God and read it all and Gods
> > truth
> > you will see it just like the rest of mankind who has sought the Lord and
> > Found
> > Him.
>
> In other words: Robert still has no citations for what he asserts.

I have what God the Heavenly Father offered to all men, the Holy Scriptures.
Salvation through the Son of God, as well as being led by the Spirit of God
into all truth.

[Robert]

On Jun 25, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<tlvh9ih0igqri68tb...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >
> > > > > > When I see the "Church of" in the NT it speaks primarily of the Church
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > God.
> > > > > > In a couple places it refers the location of a particular church, which
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > reality is an ekklesia.
> > > > > > If course this means specifically the people who are born again and have
> > > > > > faith
> > > > > > in Jesus Christ. Biblically speaking unless connoted otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > And the real funny bit is that Robert seems unaware that no where
> > > > > in the New Testament does it mention the New Testament Churches having
> > > > > a written New Testament to follow.
> > > >
> > > > So little you know of the NT Scriptures. It is widely known and also
> > > > reported
> > > > in the scriptures that the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures where passed
> > > > around the ekklesia far and wide.
> > >
> > > Where was this reported?
> >
> > In the various epistles, letters. Not from any apocryphal scriptures.
>
> So you have no idea, but you believe it must have happened, so you
> believe it.
>
> Got it.

The Lord rebuke you and your innuendo's.

[Robert]

On Jun 25, 2023, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<ftvh9i5152rtru7l3...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Fri, 23 Jun 2023 22:03:10 -0700 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >
> > > > > > Then you consider the early church to be before the RCC as decreed by
> > > > > > Constantine?
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL - poor Robert. His scholarship is so lacking he believes that
> > > > > those who had been tortured for Christ under the Emperors would
> > > > > naturally adopt the Emperors religion because he stuck a cross on his
> > > > > battle standards.
> > > >
> > > > Everything you wrote in that paragraph is patently False and without
> > > > merit.
> > > >
> > > > There was also a time of peace between the Rome and the Christians way
> > > > before Constantine.
> > >
> > > Yes, and????
> > >
> > > You must have missed the Diocletian persecutions.
> > >
> > > Or the Edict of Milan, which legitimized the Christians.
> > >
> > > Or the records of the Nicene-Constantinople.
> > >
> > > Which comes as no surprise.
> >
> > I did not miss them, but you did miss the period of time without
> > persecution of
> > the Believers by Rome.
>
> And that was when?

Would it matter if I listed the approximate years and the ruler involved?

>
> >
> > I have also read the minutes of the conference that Constantine called, read
> > the reactions of the people there. Have you?
>
> Yes. But I think you once again believe that what was written in
> "the minutes" were all that happened.

You think, eh? ;)

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <Rob...@none.non> on Mon, 26 Jun 2023 01:21:14 -0700 typed in

I do seem to recall it is written that Christians need to be
prepared to offer a defense (apologia) for the faith they hold dear.

And once again, Robert is unprepared to offer a defense of what he
believes, and blames others for point it out.

[Robert]

On Feb 10, 2024, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<hjjfsipe9r4kccdr5...@4ax.com>):

“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an
answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with
meekness and fear:” (1Pe 3:15)

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <rob...@no.way> on Sat, 10 Feb 2024 20:22:28 -0800 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>

>> > The Lord rebuke you and your innuendo's.
>>
>> I do seem to recall it is written that Christians need to be
>> prepared to offer a defense (apologia) for the faith they hold dear.
>>
>> And once again, Robert is unprepared to offer a defense of what he
>> believes, and blames others for point it out.
>
>“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an
>answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with
>meekness and fear:” (1Pe 3:15)

Robert is a very good little bot. (Not all bots are silicon based
life forms) It can provide the citation and quotation to what I
referenced. Very good.

But that is different than actually answering the question put
forward: can Robert put forth a defense of what he believes. Also
known as "explaining in twenty five words or less."