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Russia: Alternative to Capitalism???
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nickk - not the imposter
Apr 25, 2012, 4:09:53 PM4/25/12
to
Spokesman for Moscow Patriarchate sees Russia as alternative to capitalism
April 24, 2012
The chief public-affairs representative of the Russian Orthodox Church has said that Russia today offers a viable alternative to a capitalist economic system.
Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin said that while Russia made some economic progress under the Soviet regime, that system of government was profoundly flawed by an atheist ideology. Nevertheless, he said, “the idea of a society where money, profit, and private economic interests do not dominate was very important.” The cleric said that today’s Russian government, no longer encumbered by Marxist ideology, “is designed to offer the world its recipe for a social order in which money and selfish personal gain are not be the primary goal."
The statement by Archpriest Chaplin appeared to be aimed at addressing both the widespread fears of a general breakdown in the world’s financial system and the nostalgia that some Russians feel for the powerful Soviet government. At the same time his remarks underline the steadily closer alliance between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Putin government.
April 24, 2012
The chief public-affairs representative of the Russian Orthodox Church has said that Russia today offers a viable alternative to a capitalist economic system.
Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin said that while Russia made some economic progress under the Soviet regime, that system of government was profoundly flawed by an atheist ideology. Nevertheless, he said, “the idea of a society where money, profit, and private economic interests do not dominate was very important.” The cleric said that today’s Russian government, no longer encumbered by Marxist ideology, “is designed to offer the world its recipe for a social order in which money and selfish personal gain are not be the primary goal."
The statement by Archpriest Chaplin appeared to be aimed at addressing both the widespread fears of a general breakdown in the world’s financial system and the nostalgia that some Russians feel for the powerful Soviet government. At the same time his remarks underline the steadily closer alliance between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Putin government.
Todd
Apr 25, 2012, 7:28:39 PM4/25/12
to
This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model
for inspiration.
Socialism (coveting your neighbors possessions) has never
and will never work. Nothing that violate the commandments
can.
What the Archpriest is missing is that capitalism/freedom
forces you to meet the needs of your customers to meet your
own needs. All that "selfish personal gain" is rubbish.
Under freedom, everyone is forced to serve everyone else
or starve.
And guess what, under freedom, enough wealth is generated such
that some can be siphoned off for charitable works: soup
kitchens, hospitals, orphanages, etc.. All things the
church should do, not the state. Under the "fasces" (socialism)
only the Nomenklatura prospers; everyone else gets to live
in squalor and tyranny.
Oh Socialism promises the opposite, cooperation and all that
rot. Here is the problem. No where is has ever been practiced
has it worked. Socialism is a lie. No one ever cooperates.
No one wants to be a patsy to some other freeloader. Look
at America's Jamestown colony. The colonists lived as
collectivists. They would rather starve to death then let
others freeload off them. The colony only survived and
then prospered wildly after freedom and private property
were introduced. Early Christians lived the same way (as
collectivists). It did not work for them either, which was
why they dropped the practice. And, if it did not work
for early Christians, without the fasces, it won't work
anywhere else, fasces or no fasces.
Here is an idea for the archpriest: Freedom tempered with Christian
Ethics. The best system. Teach morality (starting with the
commandments). Then watch the spirit of the Russian people
take off as the Chinese have.
Your "nut" in Christ,
-T
Speaking of "power to the people", in China, when the Communists
privatized the rice farms in the south, farmers income shot up
by 1500% or 15 times (1). What a difference freedom makes
over socialism. Now the farmers are forced to meet the need of
the customers. Everyone is served.
1. Discovert Atlas: China Revealed
Steve Hayes
May 17, 2012, 4:09:30 AM5/17/12
to
On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:09:53 -0700, nickk - not the imposter wrote:
> Spokesman for Moscow Patriarchate sees Russia as alternative to
> capitalism April 24, 2012
No easier to read than the first time you posted it.
> Spokesman for Moscow Patriarchate sees Russia as alternative to
> capitalism April 24, 2012
Do you have a source URL for it?
--
Steve Hayes http://khanya.wordpress.com
RVG
May 18, 2012, 12:50:16 AM5/18/12
to
Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a �crit :
> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model
> for inspiration.
>
The inspiration of hell on earth ?
--
� Dieu n'est-il pas le po�te supr�me en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? �
Vladimir Jank�l�vitch
http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/fr/user/RVG95
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model
> for inspiration.
>
--
� Dieu n'est-il pas le po�te supr�me en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? �
Vladimir Jank�l�vitch
http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/fr/user/RVG95
http://bluedusk.blogspot.com/
Todd
May 18, 2012, 8:21:22 PM5/18/12
to
On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a �crit :
>
>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
>> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model
>> for inspiration.
>>
>
> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>
Your sense of humor is still working!
> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a �crit :
>
>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
>> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model
>> for inspiration.
>>
>
> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>
From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom
part.) The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
Socialism never works wherever it is tried. It relies on folk
"cooperating" and they never do no matter how much tyranny is
applied.
Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the
house hunt yet?
Christ is Risen!
-T
RVG
May 19, 2012, 2:04:00 AM5/19/12
to
Le 19/05/2012 02:21, Todd a écrit :
> On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
> On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
>> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a écrit :
>>
>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism once
>>> and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>> inspiration.
>>>
>>
>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>
>
> Your sense of humor is still working!
>
> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom part.)
> The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>
Obviously you have no idea of Mao's vision and theory. China is still a
>>
>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism once
>>> and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>> inspiration.
>>>
>>
>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>
>
> Your sense of humor is still working!
>
> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom part.)
> The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>
pure Marxist-maoist country. The seeming return to capitalism is just a
dialectic phase, much like Lenin's new political economy of 1921. Even
during the Chinese revolution, Mao considered the return of the emperor
on the throne *as part as the dialectic process* that leads history to
its end as accomplished communism.
Remember that above the Chinese government reigns the Council of the
Elders that works a bit like the Supreme Court in the USA, but whose
sole reference is Mao's doctrine.
> Socialism never works wherever it is tried. It relies on folk
> "cooperating" and they never do no matter how much tyranny is
> applied.
>
everything. But then people forget and fall again in the same illusions.
> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the house hunt
> yet?
--
« Dieu n'est-il pas le poète suprême en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? »
Vladimir Jankélévitch
Todd
May 19, 2012, 5:05:43 PM5/19/12
to
On 05/18/2012 11:04 PM, RVG wrote:
> Le 19/05/2012 02:21, Todd a écrit :
>> On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
>>> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a écrit :
>>>
>>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism once
>>>> and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>>> inspiration.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>>
>>
>> Your sense of humor is still working!
>>
>> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
>> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom part.)
>> The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>>
>
> Obviously you have no idea of Mao's vision and theory. China is still a
> pure Marxist-maoist country. The seeming return to capitalism is just a
> dialectic phase, much like Lenin's new political economy of 1921. Even
> during the Chinese revolution, Mao considered the return of the emperor
> on the throne *as part as the dialectic process* that leads history to
> its end as accomplished communism.
> Remember that above the Chinese government reigns the Council of the
> Elders that works a bit like the Supreme Court in the USA, but whose
> sole reference is Mao's doctrine.
As always, your mind is sharp. A very good analysis.
> Le 19/05/2012 02:21, Todd a écrit :
>> On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
>>> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a écrit :
>>>
>>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism once
>>>> and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>>> inspiration.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>>
>>
>> Your sense of humor is still working!
>>
>> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
>> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom part.)
>> The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>>
>
> Obviously you have no idea of Mao's vision and theory. China is still a
> pure Marxist-maoist country. The seeming return to capitalism is just a
> dialectic phase, much like Lenin's new political economy of 1921. Even
> during the Chinese revolution, Mao considered the return of the emperor
> on the throne *as part as the dialectic process* that leads history to
> its end as accomplished communism.
> Remember that above the Chinese government reigns the Council of the
> Elders that works a bit like the Supreme Court in the USA, but whose
> sole reference is Mao's doctrine.
So what you are saying is that the communists have let the freedom
Jennie out of the bottle as part of the Dialectic Process. This
is sad, as if the communists try to put freedom back in the bottle,
there will be one of the ugliest civil wars in history. I hope
the communists just slowly give up power to free elections.
>> Socialism never works wherever it is tried. It relies on folk
>> "cooperating" and they never do no matter how much tyranny is
>> applied.
>>
>
> Socialism works where it's needed, ie where capitalism has destroyed
> everything. But then people forget and fall again in the same illusions.
the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after
pictures of their cities? They went from complete destruction
to prosperity. And they used freedom, no socialism. There are
just too many examples of the opposite for me to be swayed
to your side. Can you give me any example of where socialism
has actually brought a people from destruction to prosperity?
Just as an aside, the German Communists thought the Nazis where
part of the Dialectic Process too. Oops.
Anyway, I hope the Chinese Communists just slowly give up power
and not force a civil war. Do you see any sign of that?
>
>> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the house hunt
>> yet?
>
> Waiting for the cops.
the rest on this group, but I do believe they are praying for you
too. (My wife was really pissed when she found out about your
situation and asks how you are doing frequently.)
God bless you Vassily.
Yours in Christ,
-T
RVG
May 20, 2012, 12:57:29 AM5/20/12
to
Le 19/05/2012 23:05, Todd a �crit :
unbalance and chaos. Stability is the supreme valour whatever the human
cost.
They're not Christian, their morality comes from Confucius, not Moses or
Jesus.
The individual is nothing, just a scale on the dragon's skin.
After the Tien An Men demonstrations, the government asked through the
media that the parents of the demonstrators call the police in order
to have those troublemakers arrested. More than 90% of the parents
called. The others got arrested themselves, and things resumed their
normal course.
Take Russia: here's a Christian country where the person is supposed to
be irreducible. Yet there's no freedom and none is demanded by the
people who massively re-elect the same bastard(s).
Freedom is a notion born during the European Renaissance, and no other
place in the world values it. Hence the problems with non-European
immigrants.
http://barenakedislam.com/2012/01/17/to-fight-the-soaring-popularity-of-geert-wilders-anti-islam-freedom-party-muslims-come-up-with-a-pro-sharia-party-of-their-own/
> I hope the communists just slowly give up power to free elections.
>
Why would they do that ?
>>> Socialism never works wherever it is tried. It relies on folk
>>> "cooperating" and they never do no matter how much tyranny is
>>> applied.
>>>
>>
>> Socialism works where it's needed, ie where capitalism has
>> destroyed everything. But then people forget and fall again in the
>> same illusions.
>
> A good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn to
> the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after pictures
> of their cities? They went from complete destruction to prosperity.
> And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just too many examples
> of the opposite for me to be swayed to your side. Can you give me any
> example of where socialism has actually brought a people from
> destruction to prosperity?
>
Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative poverty).
> Just as an aside, the German Communists thought the Nazis where part
> of the Dialectic Process too. Oops.
>
They were, as a neotenic delay. That was Marx's limitation, not to
figure that the masses could be led to vote against their interests.
Now the same propaganda is used by the rightist parties of the Western
countries.
How could W be elected TWICE ? How could Sarkozy make 48% last week ? By
using the same brainwashing propaganda as the nazis in the 30s.
> Anyway, I hope the Chinese Communists just slowly give up power and
> not force a civil war. Do you see any sign of that?
>
>>
>>> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the house
>>> hunt yet?
>>
>> Waiting for the cops.
>
> Don't give up. My family is praying for you. I do not speak for the
> rest on this group, but I do believe they are praying for you too.
> (My wife was really pissed when she found out about your situation
> and asks how you are doing frequently.)
>
> God bless you Vassily.
>
> Yours in Christ, -T
>
>
> On 05/18/2012 11:04 PM, RVG wrote:
>> Le 19/05/2012 02:21, Todd a �crit :
>>> On 05/17/2012 09:50 PM, RVG wrote:
>>>> Le 26/04/2012 01:28, Todd a �crit :
>>>>
>>>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
>>>>> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>>>> inspiration.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your sense of humor is still working!
>>>
>>> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
>>> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom
>>> part.) The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>>>
>>
>> Obviously you have no idea of Mao's vision and theory. China is
>> still a pure Marxist-maoist country. The seeming return to
>> capitalism is just a dialectic phase, much like Lenin's new
>> political economy of 1921. Even during the Chinese revolution, Mao
>> considered the return of the emperor on the throne *as part as the
>> dialectic process* that leads history to its end as accomplished
>> communism. Remember that above the Chinese government reigns the
>> Council of the Elders that works a bit like the Supreme Court in
>> the USA, but whose sole reference is Mao's doctrine.
>
> As always, your mind is sharp. A very good analysis.
>
> So what you are saying is that the communists have let the freedom
> Jennie out of the bottle as part of the Dialectic Process. This is
> sad, as if the communists try to put freedom back in the bottle,
> there will be one of the ugliest civil wars in history.
No, there won't. The Chinese masses loathe liberty as a factor of
>>>>> This is sad. Russia needs to throw off the yoke of socialism
>>>>> once and for all. They should look to the Chinese model for
>>>>> inspiration.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The inspiration of hell on earth ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your sense of humor is still working!
>>>
>>> From socialism/poverty/squalor/tyranny to openness, freedom and
>>> prosperity. (They still need to work on the political freedom
>>> part.) The Chinese have a lot to be proud of.
>>>
>>
>> Obviously you have no idea of Mao's vision and theory. China is
>> still a pure Marxist-maoist country. The seeming return to
>> capitalism is just a dialectic phase, much like Lenin's new
>> political economy of 1921. Even during the Chinese revolution, Mao
>> considered the return of the emperor on the throne *as part as the
>> dialectic process* that leads history to its end as accomplished
>> communism. Remember that above the Chinese government reigns the
>> Council of the Elders that works a bit like the Supreme Court in
>> the USA, but whose sole reference is Mao's doctrine.
>
> As always, your mind is sharp. A very good analysis.
>
> So what you are saying is that the communists have let the freedom
> Jennie out of the bottle as part of the Dialectic Process. This is
> sad, as if the communists try to put freedom back in the bottle,
> there will be one of the ugliest civil wars in history.
unbalance and chaos. Stability is the supreme valour whatever the human
cost.
They're not Christian, their morality comes from Confucius, not Moses or
Jesus.
The individual is nothing, just a scale on the dragon's skin.
After the Tien An Men demonstrations, the government asked through the
media that the parents of the demonstrators call the police in order
to have those troublemakers arrested. More than 90% of the parents
called. The others got arrested themselves, and things resumed their
normal course.
Take Russia: here's a Christian country where the person is supposed to
be irreducible. Yet there's no freedom and none is demanded by the
people who massively re-elect the same bastard(s).
Freedom is a notion born during the European Renaissance, and no other
place in the world values it. Hence the problems with non-European
immigrants.
http://barenakedislam.com/2012/01/17/to-fight-the-soaring-popularity-of-geert-wilders-anti-islam-freedom-party-muslims-come-up-with-a-pro-sharia-party-of-their-own/
> I hope the communists just slowly give up power to free elections.
>
>>> Socialism never works wherever it is tried. It relies on folk
>>> "cooperating" and they never do no matter how much tyranny is
>>> applied.
>>>
>>
>> Socialism works where it's needed, ie where capitalism has
>> destroyed everything. But then people forget and fall again in the
>> same illusions.
>
> A good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn to
> the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after pictures
> of their cities? They went from complete destruction to prosperity.
> And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just too many examples
> of the opposite for me to be swayed to your side. Can you give me any
> example of where socialism has actually brought a people from
> destruction to prosperity?
>
> Just as an aside, the German Communists thought the Nazis where part
> of the Dialectic Process too. Oops.
>
figure that the masses could be led to vote against their interests.
Now the same propaganda is used by the rightist parties of the Western
countries.
How could W be elected TWICE ? How could Sarkozy make 48% last week ? By
using the same brainwashing propaganda as the nazis in the 30s.
> Anyway, I hope the Chinese Communists just slowly give up power and
> not force a civil war. Do you see any sign of that?
>
>>
>>> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the house
>>> hunt yet?
>>
>> Waiting for the cops.
>
> Don't give up. My family is praying for you. I do not speak for the
> rest on this group, but I do believe they are praying for you too.
> (My wife was really pissed when she found out about your situation
> and asks how you are doing frequently.)
>
> God bless you Vassily.
>
> Yours in Christ, -T
>
>
--
� Dieu n'est-il pas le po�te supr�me en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? �
Vladimir Jank�l�vitch
� Dieu n'est-il pas le po�te supr�me en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? �
Vladimir Jank�l�vitch
Todd
May 21, 2012, 3:48:42 PM5/21/12
to
On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn to
>> the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after pictures
>> of their cities? They went from complete destruction to prosperity.
>> And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just too many examples
>> of the opposite for me to be swayed to your side. Can you give me any
>> example of where socialism has actually brought a people from
>> destruction to prosperity?
>>
>
> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative poverty).
Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they
>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn to
>> the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after pictures
>> of their cities? They went from complete destruction to prosperity.
>> And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just too many examples
>> of the opposite for me to be swayed to your side. Can you give me any
>> example of where socialism has actually brought a people from
>> destruction to prosperity?
>>
>
> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative poverty).
would have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually,
socialism runs down country as the producers stop producing
because they do not see the fruits of their labor.
Cuba would be so, so better off under freedom than socialism. I can
not wait for the Castros to die off. Fidel is like one of the ten
richest men in the world. Power to the people!
What concerns me is your home country. In about 10 to 15 years,
the Muslims you imported to pay for your generous retirements
will outnumber you. And, France will cease to exist. Plus,
you have nuclear weapons that will come under Muslim control.
All because of socialism. The world will become a very dangerous
place. I would love for you to tell me I am wrong?
I wonder if Muslim France will still allow Wine production?
>
>> Just as an aside, the German Communists thought the Nazis where part
>> of the Dialectic Process too. Oops.
>>
>
> They were, as a neotenic delay. That was Marx's limitation, not to
> figure that the masses could be led to vote against their interests.
> Now the same propaganda is used by the rightist parties of the Western
> countries.
> How could W be elected TWICE ? How could Sarkozy make 48% last week ? By
> using the same brainwashing propaganda as the nazis in the 30s.
>
>> Anyway, I hope the Chinese Communists just slowly give up power and
>> not force a civil war. Do you see any sign of that?
>>
>>>
>>>> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the house
>>>> hunt yet?
>>>
>>> Waiting for the cops.
RVG
May 22, 2012, 7:51:16 AM5/22/12
to
Le 21/05/2012 21:48, Todd a écrit :
> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn
>>> to the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after
>>> pictures of their cities? They went from complete destruction to
>>> prosperity. And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just
>>> too many examples of the opposite for me to be swayed to your
>>> side. Can you give me any example of where socialism has actually
>>> brought a people from destruction to prosperity?
>>>
>>
>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>> poverty).
>
> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they
> would have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually,
> socialism runs down country as the producers stop producing because
> they do not see the fruits of their labor.
>
Read cardinal Jean Daniélou. He explained very clearly that Constantine
> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn
>>> to the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after
>>> pictures of their cities? They went from complete destruction to
>>> prosperity. And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just
>>> too many examples of the opposite for me to be swayed to your
>>> side. Can you give me any example of where socialism has actually
>>> brought a people from destruction to prosperity?
>>>
>>
>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>> poverty).
>
> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they
> would have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually,
> socialism runs down country as the producers stop producing because
> they do not see the fruits of their labor.
>
created the first totalitarian state and it was no wonder that Russia
would eventually turn to the most extreme form of communism.
Not that it is stranger to Christianity: pure communism is the society
described in the Book of Acts, and it's the real political reason of the
persecutions of the Christians by Rome. the story that the Christians
were persecuted because they worshipped a foreign deity doesn't hold
since it was also true of the Jews who had a special statute in Rome and
could access most of the jobs and occupations accessible to the Roman plebe.
> Cuba would be so, so better off under freedom than socialism. I can
> not wait for the Castros to die off. Fidel is like one of the ten
> richest men in the world. Power to the people!
>
is, Cuba is the most healthy of the Caribbean states that are not
colonies or French départements.
> What concerns me is your home country. In about 10 to 15 years, the
> Muslims you imported to pay for your generous retirements will
> outnumber you. And, France will cease to exist. Plus, you have
> nuclear weapons that will come under Muslim control. All because of
> socialism.
under rightist governments (Pompidou and Giscard). They cost less than
the French native workers, that's all the bosses wanted to hear.
Socialism may enforce laïcité, a concept foreign to the US bigotry that
isn't secularism although it contains the idea.
The thing we must realize, and only retarded peoples like the Serbs and
the Americans fail to understand that, is that you can't get rid of
Islam without purging religion altogether. If Hollande has the balls to
kick the Pope, the Dalai Lama, etc. out of the Republic, Islam may cease
to be a problem.
> The world will become a very dangerous place. I would love for you to
> tell me I am wrong?
>
to survive, not live, so danger is essentially behind.
That's why there are no Christians today: Christianity is communism,
period. But today the Kwistians are reactionary right-wing fascists.
Name me ONE Orthodoxist who condemns Milosevic ! NONE !
> I wonder if Muslim France will still allow Wine production?
>
of the public place in 1905, under the left-wing government of Maurice
Rouvier. It may not be harder to get rid of any other religion or sect
(a religion is a sect with a political status).
Interestingly Hollande's government has neither Jews nor Muslims unlike
Sarkozy's.
>>
>>> Just as an aside, the German Communists thought the Nazis where
>>> part of the Dialectic Process too. Oops.
>>>
>>
>> They were, as a neotenic delay. That was Marx's limitation, not to
>> figure that the masses could be led to vote against their
>> interests. Now the same propaganda is used by the rightist parties
>> of the Western countries. How could W be elected TWICE ? How could
>> Sarkozy make 48% last week ? By using the same brainwashing
>> propaganda as the nazis in the 30s.
>>
>>> Anyway, I hope the Chinese Communists just slowly give up power
>>> and not force a civil war. Do you see any sign of that?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good to see you are still writing! Guess no word on the
>>>>> house hunt yet?
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for the cops.
>
> yikes!
« Dieu n'est-il pas le poète suprême en tant qu'il improvise les mondes ? »
Vladimir Jankélévitch
Percival P. Cassidy
May 22, 2012, 9:07:30 AM5/22/12
to
On 05/22/12 07:51 am, RVG wrote:
>>>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn
>>>> to the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after
>>>> pictures of their cities? They went from complete destruction to
>>>> prosperity. And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just
>>>> too many examples of the opposite for me to be swayed to your
>>>> side. Can you give me any example of where socialism has actually
>>>> brought a people from destruction to prosperity?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>>> poverty).
>>
>> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they
>> would have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually,
>> socialism runs down country as the producers stop producing because
>> they do not see the fruits of their labor.
>>
>
> Read cardinal Jean Daniélou. He explained very clearly that Constantine
> created the first totalitarian state and it was no wonder that Russia
> would eventually turn to the most extreme form of communism.
> Not that it is stranger to Christianity: pure communism is the society
> described in the Book of Acts, and it's the real political reason of the
> persecutions of the Christians by Rome. the story that the Christians
> were persecuted because they worshipped a foreign deity doesn't hold
> since it was also true of the Jews who had a special statute in Rome and
> could access most of the jobs and occupations accessible to the Roman
> plebe.
But that was a special exemption for Jews. Once Jews who believed that
>>>> good example of the opposite is Japan, where what was not burn
>>>> to the ground was radioactive. Have your seen before and after
>>>> pictures of their cities? They went from complete destruction to
>>>> prosperity. And they used freedom, no socialism. There are just
>>>> too many examples of the opposite for me to be swayed to your
>>>> side. Can you give me any example of where socialism has actually
>>>> brought a people from destruction to prosperity?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>>> poverty).
>>
>> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they
>> would have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually,
>> socialism runs down country as the producers stop producing because
>> they do not see the fruits of their labor.
>>
>
> Read cardinal Jean Daniélou. He explained very clearly that Constantine
> created the first totalitarian state and it was no wonder that Russia
> would eventually turn to the most extreme form of communism.
> Not that it is stranger to Christianity: pure communism is the society
> described in the Book of Acts, and it's the real political reason of the
> persecutions of the Christians by Rome. the story that the Christians
> were persecuted because they worshipped a foreign deity doesn't hold
> since it was also true of the Jews who had a special statute in Rome and
> could access most of the jobs and occupations accessible to the Roman
> plebe.
Jesus of Nazareth was the promised Messiah were denounced by other Jews
as no longer being real Jews, they lost that exemption and were subject
to persecution. That's a significant aspect of the Book of Revelation:
Jerusalem (depicted as the harlot Babylon) using Rome (depicted as a
fearsome beast) to accomplish its purposes.
Perce
Todd
May 22, 2012, 12:59:32 PM5/22/12
to
On 05/22/2012 04:51 AM, RVG wrote:
> Without socialism Cuba will be like Haiti in less than one year. As it
> is, Cuba is the most healthy of the Caribbean states that are not
> colonies or French départements.
I would have to disagree with you on this one. I actually know
> Without socialism Cuba will be like Haiti in less than one year. As it
> is, Cuba is the most healthy of the Caribbean states that are not
> colonies or French départements.
some Cubans. Cuba under freedom would be the economic powerhouse
of the region. Think Jamaica and/or or the Dominican Republic
on steroids.
Do you realize that Cuban women are given the choice of one
pair of underwear or one bra every two years? Meaning, they
have to wait four years replace one. Nothing ever works
under tyranny, except the nomenclature gets richer than
hell.
>
>> What concerns me is your home country. In about 10 to 15 years, the
>> Muslims you imported to pay for your generous retirements will
>> outnumber you. And, France will cease to exist. Plus, you have
>> nuclear weapons that will come under Muslim control. All because of
>> socialism.
>
> False, the Muslim immigration was called by the French big companies
> under rightist governments (Pompidou and Giscard). They cost less than
> the French native workers, that's all the bosses wanted to hear.
> Socialism may enforce laïcité, a concept foreign to the US bigotry that
> isn't secularism although it contains the idea.
> The thing we must realize, and only retarded peoples like the Serbs and
> the Americans fail to understand that, is that you can't get rid of
> Islam without purging religion altogether. If Hollande has the balls to
> kick the Pope, the Dalai Lama, etc. out of the Republic, Islam may cease
> to be a problem.
without first taking from someone else. Your ponzi retirement
scheme (we have one too) does not have enough young people
to support it. Last I read, the number of children per
French couple was around two. You need between four and five
per couple to keep the ponzi scheme running, so in with the
Muslin immigrants. Everyone is happy. Industry loves the
low wages. Government loves to revenue.
Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine
children per couple. And, since Islam is both a religion
and a government, they do/will not assimilate. So, in
about ten to fifteen years, no more France. And, the
New Muslim France WILL BE NUCLEAR ARMED. Thank you
so very, very much.
I also have to disagree with you about getting rid of
all religion, just he ones that come with their own
government and will not assimilate with their new
host country.
Your in Christ,
-T
p.s. any chance of trading your Sarkozy for our Dear Leader?
Todd
May 22, 2012, 2:23:37 PM5/22/12
to
On 05/22/2012 06:07 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> But that was a special exemption for Jews
Hi Perc,
> But that was a special exemption for Jews
Just out of curiosity, what was the time line for
the special exemption versus the Diaspora? Did
it end after Jerusalem was sacked and the Jews
deported?
-T
RVG
May 22, 2012, 5:33:06 PM5/22/12
to
Black Africa, so they're mostly Hindus and Christians (many Tamil people
from Sri Lanka are also Christian refugees from the recent civil war
that opposed them to the Muslims there).
I have neighbours from Cape Verde, and the teenage kids proudly wear
Christian t-shirts and big pectoral crosses on the street, unafraid of
the Muslim populace.
The question of retirement pensions is about to become a worldwide
problem with the incoming disaster of China's one child policy. The
problem is really global with too many people that the Earth can't
sustain any more. The very nature of money and economic exchanges may be
called into drastic reforms.
> Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine children
> per couple.
can't afford the housing for too many children.
> And, since Islam is both a religion and a government, they do/will
> not assimilate. So, in about ten to fifteen years, no more France.
> And, the New Muslim France WILL BE NUCLEAR ARMED. Thank you so very,
> very much.
>
assimilated it's because the "native" French didn't want them in their
neighbourhoods for decades. So two or three generations of Muslims have
grown and spent their entire lives in projects, far from the town
centres, and have almost never seen what a republican society can be.
So, there, imams have progressively taken the place of social
counsellors, teachers, and even cops and lawyers.
An entire département like Seine-Saint-Denis, in the North of Paris, is
90% Black and Muslim. Whose fault is it ? Who let that happened ? Easy:
just check a map: the bordering bourgeois areas of Neuilly, Auteuil,
etc. refused to develop any form of social housings, so these people
never had a chance to move from their place of arrival - for almost 50
years now. And before becoming president, Sarkozy has been the mayor of
Neuilly like forever, so he actively contributed to this situation of
discrimination and repression that became brutal once he became Minister
of the Interior under Chirac and then President of the Republic.
> I also have to disagree with you about getting rid of all religion,
> just he ones that come with their own government and will not
> assimilate with their new host country.
>
of human stupidity.
We have the right to behave like morons every once in awhile, churches
are made for that, but it has to be strictly contained. You don't want
pupils to play ball or tag in the classroom, do you ?
> Your in Christ, -T
>
> p.s. any chance of trading your Sarkozy for our Dear Leader?
Steve Hayes
May 23, 2012, 10:16:35 PM5/23/12
to
On Mon, 21 May 2012 12:48:42 -0700, Todd wrote:
> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>> poverty).
>
> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they would
> have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually, socialism runs
> down country as the producers stop producing because they do not see the
> fruits of their labor.
To speak opf Byzantium as "socialist" is a bit of an anachronism.
> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>> poverty).
>
> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they would
> have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually, socialism runs
> down country as the producers stop producing because they do not see the
> fruits of their labor.
But the aim of socialism is to enable the producers to see the fruits of
their labour. Socialism arose as a reaction against capitalism, in which
the producers did not see the fruits of their labour.
Hence the socialist song:
It is we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade
Dug the mines and built the factories, endless miles of railroad laid
Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made
But union makes us strong.
(Sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic")
And it was indeed the trade union movement that succeeded, to some
extent, in modifying and humanising capitalism.
Capitalists prospered on the fruits of *other* people's labour. That was
the whole point -- it depended on a division between capital and labour.
"Byzantium" on the other hand, was a pagan Roman empire modified and
mitigated to some extent by Christian conscience. There was no capitalism
for it to react against.
Todd
May 24, 2012, 3:12:10 PM5/24/12
to
On 05/22/2012 02:33 PM, RVG wrote:
>
>> Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine children
>> per couple.
>
> Not in Europe, they usually have two or three kids per wife. They just
> can't afford the housing for too many children.
Okay, so I did some research to see if you were correct. I found
>
>> Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine children
>> per couple.
>
> Not in Europe, they usually have two or three kids per wife. They just
> can't afford the housing for too many children.
tons of articles pointing to me being correct, but some of the responses
pointed to what you were saying. On more careful examination, it
that this has almost become urban legend. This article seems to
have the most accurate information:
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2011/01/pew-muslims-to-make-up-8-of-europes.html
Seem that by 2050 that France will be ~ 8% Muslim and not 50% by 2022.
So you were right and I was wrong. You get to strut, but don't
hurt your back doing it.
I am actually glad to be wrong on this one. This was a war I did
not feel like fighting. When I get the 50% in ten years thing,
mailed around to me again, I will just tell them that it is
urban legend.
Yours in Christ,
-T
Todd
May 24, 2012, 3:35:13 PM5/24/12
to
On 05/22/2012 02:33 PM, RVG wrote:
> The question of retirement pensions is about to become a worldwide
> problem with the incoming disaster of China's one child policy. The
> problem is really global with too many people that the Earth can't
> sustain any more. The very nature of money and economic exchanges may be
> called into drastic reforms.
Hi Vassily,
> problem with the incoming disaster of China's one child policy. The
> problem is really global with too many people that the Earth can't
> sustain any more. The very nature of money and economic exchanges may be
> called into drastic reforms.
We you ever able to travel by airplane before you back was injured?
Had you looked out the window, you would have noticed that most of
the world in uninhabited.
Was watching a documentary on China's girl issue. Seems everyone
wants boys, or rather "a" boy, with the one child policy. The
Doc stated in some rural districts, school boys out number school
girls 28 to 2. They stated it was because the male child takes care
of the parent in old age, but not the girl. So, girls get aborted
(murdered) and abandoned in parks, etc.. My heart wanted to adopt
every single one of them.
With all the excess boys, I hope the Chinese do not decide to
"burn them off" in the traditional method by starting wars. Scales
on the back of the dragon, as you have previously stated.
I do not know how it is in France, but in the United States,
there is not sex to which children take care of which parent(s).
It has a lot more to do with if the children like their
parents or not. There is a bumper sticker kicking around that
says "Be careful how you treat your kids, they will be the
ones choosing your retirement home!"
There is an alternative to the retirement problem that actually
works better than government ponzi schemes. Check out Chili's
functioning private scheme. Folks make more money in retirement
than when they were working. The money gets reinvested in the
economy, instead of being handed from one person to another. And,
you get to will what is left over to some one. And it is
actually working. Not a theoretical notion that folk will
cooperate and never do. And it works even in the worst market
downturns. Makes a mockery of the ponzi scheme.
The big draw back to getting Chili's system here (and Germany's
Medicare system too) is that those in Government who use the
ponzi scheme for wield power will not give it up. The real
meaning of the word "fascist" (those that believe in a strong,
overbearing central government).
On another subject, have you managed to get any sleep? And,
are you still strutting? Getting tossed out of your
house? At least Todd admitted I was right!
Yours in Christ,
-T
RVG
May 25, 2012, 10:57:43 AM5/25/12
to
Le 24/05/2012 21:12, Todd a écrit :
> On 05/22/2012 02:33 PM, RVG wrote:
>>
>>> Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine
>>> children per couple.
>>
>> Not in Europe, they usually have two or three kids per wife. They
>> just can't afford the housing for too many children.
>
> Okay, so I did some research to see if you were correct. I found
> tons of articles pointing to me being correct, but some of the
> responses pointed to what you were saying. On more careful
> examination, it that this has almost become urban legend. This
> article seems to have the most accurate information:
>
> http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2011/01/pew-muslims-to-make-up-8-of-europes.html
>
>
>
>
> Seem that by 2050 that France will be ~ 8% Muslim and not 50% by
> 2022. So you were right and I was wrong. You get to strut, but don't
> hurt your back doing it.
>
Then again, someone may have grandparents from Maghreb and be called
> On 05/22/2012 02:33 PM, RVG wrote:
>>
>>> Except one problem: the Muslins have between eight and nine
>>> children per couple.
>>
>> Not in Europe, they usually have two or three kids per wife. They
>> just can't afford the housing for too many children.
>
> Okay, so I did some research to see if you were correct. I found
> tons of articles pointing to me being correct, but some of the
> responses pointed to what you were saying. On more careful
> examination, it that this has almost become urban legend. This
> article seems to have the most accurate information:
>
> http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2011/01/pew-muslims-to-make-up-8-of-europes.html
>
>
>
>
> Seem that by 2050 that France will be ~ 8% Muslim and not 50% by
> 2022. So you were right and I was wrong. You get to strut, but don't
> hurt your back doing it.
>
Muhammad and yet be agnostic or or onion worshipper. Only the
extreme-right uses this confusion to instil fear among people.
> I am actually glad to be wrong on this one. This was a war I did not
> feel like fighting. When I get the 50% in ten years thing, mailed
> around to me again, I will just tell them that it is urban legend.
>
Muslim French. Many of them are in a phase of identity research, between
faith and the republic. Many young women in particular wear the hijab
for awhile because they feel more secure not being the preys of men
because they're attractive and yet want to live a quiet and pious life,
it's the opposite of provocation. They just have to find a reasonable
balance that will both be reassuring for them and compatible with the
laïc law of the republic.
It's a reaction to the 60s and 70s attitude of the "sexual revolution".
As the saying goes (actually by film-maker Luis Buñuel), "The parents'
dream always becomes the children's naightmare".
You must realize that the vast majority of theses people have spent the
last 40 years literally parked in cités (suburban concrete projects)
they never could move from and that de facto became their own provinces
and territories with their own rules. So yes, there is organized crime.
But what do you expect when you're born in a place where unemployment is
> 50% ? Where even if you succeed in your studies and get a degree,
> your
skin colour and your name will automatically cause the rejection of your
CV to the bin ?
We're just coming out of ten years of borderline fascism (that Sarkozy
called "la droite décomplexée" - "the uninhibited right"). Meaning that
discrimination and segregation based on origin, religion, colour,
wealth, etc. was completely normal and even encouraged, with "real
French" and Jews being the top of the cake and the rest were just
"metoikoi" - except the very rich ones.
France hasn't been a democracy since 2002, but rather a plutocratic
oligarchy.
Sarkozy has been compared to Napoleon III and Nicolas I. Quite rightly I
think. The country's in shambles and so far, hoping he'll get a majority
at the parliament, Hollande has a rather contrasting soothing effect.
RVG
May 25, 2012, 10:59:46 AM5/25/12
to
Le 24/05/2012 04:16, Steve Hayes a écrit :
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 12:48:42 -0700, Todd wrote:
>
>> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>
>>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>>> poverty).
>>
>> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they would
>> have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually, socialism runs
>> down country as the producers stop producing because they do not see the
>> fruits of their labor.
>
> To speak opf Byzantium as "socialist" is a bit of an anachronism.
>
> But the aim of socialism is to enable the producers to see the fruits of
> their labour. Socialism arose as a reaction against capitalism, in which
> the producers did not see the fruits of their labour.
>
> Hence the socialist song:
>
> It is we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade
> Dug the mines and built the factories, endless miles of railroad laid
> Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made
> But union makes us strong.
> (Sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic")
>
> And it was indeed the trade union movement that succeeded, to some
> extent, in modifying and humanising capitalism.
>
> Capitalists prospered on the fruits of *other* people's labour. That was
> the whole point -- it depended on a division between capital and labour.
>
http://youtu.be/GPKH4GHiihg
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 12:48:42 -0700, Todd wrote:
>
>> On 05/19/2012 09:57 PM, RVG wrote:
>
>>> Byzantium. France. Yugoslavia. Cuba (from dire misery to relative
>>> poverty).
>>
>> Did not realize Byzantium was socialist. Hmmmm. Don't think they would
>> have lasted as long as they did as socialists. Usually, socialism runs
>> down country as the producers stop producing because they do not see the
>> fruits of their labor.
>
> To speak opf Byzantium as "socialist" is a bit of an anachronism.
>
> But the aim of socialism is to enable the producers to see the fruits of
> their labour. Socialism arose as a reaction against capitalism, in which
> the producers did not see the fruits of their labour.
>
> Hence the socialist song:
>
> It is we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade
> Dug the mines and built the factories, endless miles of railroad laid
> Now we stand outcast and starving 'mid the wonders we have made
> But union makes us strong.
> (Sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic")
>
> And it was indeed the trade union movement that succeeded, to some
> extent, in modifying and humanising capitalism.
>
> Capitalists prospered on the fruits of *other* people's labour. That was
> the whole point -- it depended on a division between capital and labour.
>
> "Byzantium" on the other hand, was a pagan Roman empire modified and
> mitigated to some extent by Christian conscience. There was no capitalism
> for it to react against.
>
--
Vladimir Jankélévitch
Steve Hayes
May 28, 2012, 2:13:47 AM5/28/12
to
0 new messages