Re: What is the true date of the Jewish Ney Year?

[Dr. Who]

On Sep 24, 2022, Dr. Who wrote
(in article <tgos9s$382tj$1...@dont-email.me>):

>
> In the the beginning of the establishment of Israel as a nation, the year was clearly set at the first of Nisan.
>
> in the context of a description of the first Passover. The Lord said
> to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: This month shall mark for you the
> beginning of the months; it shall be the first of the months of the year for
> you. Exodus 12:1,2)
> .
> This new year celebrated the creation of the Jewish nation the redemption
> of the Israelites from Egypt. Nisan, as the first of the months,
> coincided with the beginning of Jewish national history.
>
> No where in the Bible do I see the calendar authorized by God, or man.
>
> The word of God categorized many events to occur according to the Jewish
> Calendar, all that pertain to Israel both then and not, as well as the
> future.
> The prophesy of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, both the former as
> well as the latter day rain are based on it. Not the calendar of men.
>
> There are other timed events also.
>
> So I am asking the question for either clarification that it is God
> authorized, or is of the Evil one so as to confuse man and cause them to miss
> the mark.

I post edited this for the sake of clarity.

[Dr. Who]

On Sep 26, 2022, servant wrote
(in article<6331dd8a$0$2251$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>):

> Answer; no problem, let's ask the experts so the mind of Robert/dr. who
> may be at ease:
>
> How Rosh Hashanah Became New Year's Day | My Jewish Learning
>
> https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/sukkot-2015/

That stipulates man as the changer, not God.

So who do you believe?

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Mon, 26 Sep 2022 11:02:06 -0700
typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

Snerk.

Poor Bob. Confused by so many things which happened before he
came along.

Rosh Hashanah is beginning of the "civil" year, about six months
after the beginning of the "religious year" or Passover.

It's a book keeping thing, much like the beginning of the
Indiction was in September, while the "new year" in the Julian
Calendar was the VIIIth day of the Kalends of April

Of course, the start of a "new year" depends a lot on who is doing
the calculating. In the US the Fiscal year 2022 begins in October.
School years usually begin in the fall, and so on.

However, the real question is: why is he not computing the Real
Date according to his own sources?

Is he using the Julian or Gregorian civil calendar? Or a calendar
revealed to him?


===

On a totally side note, I've been doing research into origins of
time keeping. Short form: a lunar calendar will work, as long as you
have no events which are tied to a season. Like Passover or Easter
and Spring. Or New Years and fall. Or planting and harvesting,
although those tend to season
If you do, your options are to add another month when a particular
event (e.g., Passover, the migration of birds, beast or fish, the
fields being white unto harvest, the rains, etc) falls way too early
for the season. Not good to have a spring festivals occurring in mid
winter.
But that is another subject for another day.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[Dr. Who]

On Sep 26, 2022, Ollie Smth wrote
(in article<a360365c-a985-4fc2...@googlegroups.com>):

> On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 4:38:28 PM UTC+10, Dr. Who wrote:
> > On Sep 24, 2022, Dr. Who wrote
> > (in article <tgos9s$382tj$1...@dont-email.me>):
> >
> > >
> > > In the the beginning of the establishment of Israel as a nation, the year
> > > was clearly set at the first of Nisan.
> > >
> > > in the context of a description of the first Passover. The Lord said
> > > to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: This month shall mark for you the
> > > beginning of the months; it shall be the first of the months of the year
> > > for
> > > you. Exodus 12:1,2)
>

> Passover for 2022 fell on April 15.

>
> > > This new year celebrated the creation of the Jewish nation the redemption
> > > of the Israelites from Egypt. Nisan, as the first of the months,
> > > coincided with the beginning of Jewish national history.
>

> On my Monday last [Sunday elsewhere] I received this notification -
> "Shana Tova, Roy! Happy Jewish New Year 5783!
> Today is one of the holiest days of the Jewish year: Rosh HaShanah (Head of
> the Year)—the beginning of the Jewish year.
> Since this holy day is considered a Sabbath, no work is done; all over Israel
> and around the world, the Jewish People are attending services in local
> synagogues.
> Biblically, this celebration is known as Yom Teruah (Feast of Trumpets).
> Last night as the holiday began, selichot (prayers for forgiveness)
> intensified and this morning the shofar (ram’s horn or trumpet) is being
> sounded about 100 times, depending upon the community's tradition.
> It will continue to be sounded throughout this holiday season."
>
> So, the new year has just started this week.

The questions still remains, who authorized this. According to the Bible, as
I understand it, the explanation you gave is in error.

>
>
> > > No where in the Bible do I see the calendar authorized by God, or man.
> > >
> > > The word of God categorized many events to occur according to the Jewish
> > > Calendar, all that pertain to Israel both then and not, as well as the
> > > future.
> > > The prophesy of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, both the former as
> > > well as the latter day rain are based on it. Not the calendar of men.
>

> I'm not comfortable with "the latter day rain".
> Appears to be a modern take on end-times.
> See https://www.gotquestions.org/latter-rain-movement.html
> or https://www.apologeticsindex.org/l39.html

My take as given my God on this is,...

“Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for
he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down
for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.”
(Joe 2:23)

“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon
all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men
shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the
servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And
I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and
pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into
blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall
come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be
delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the
LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.” (Joe 2:28-32)

This is not a movement by men but of the Heavenly Father.

Whoever is opposed to it, will not receive.

[Dr. Who]

On Sep 26, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<55l4jht6ldc1ad1fj...@4ax.com>):

“And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This
month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month
of the year to you.” (Exo 12:1-2)

Mock me all you desire, yet this is the word of the Lord.

“In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S
passover.” (Lev 23:5)

Where is there any mention of a fiscal year in the Word of God?

Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was it
after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?

>
>
> ===
>
> On a totally side note, I've been doing research into origins of
> time keeping. Short form: a lunar calendar will work, as long as you
> have no events which are tied to a season. Like Passover or Easter
> and Spring. Or New Years and fall. Or planting and harvesting,
> although those tend to season
> If you do, your options are to add another month when a particular
> event (e.g., Passover, the migration of birds, beast or fish, the
> fields being white unto harvest, the rains, etc) falls way too early
> for the season. Not good to have a spring festivals occurring in mid
> winter.
> But that is another subject for another day.

As to time keeping, this is specific to the Israelite, no one else. The
priests were the arbiter of months and days. It is a set time and as you will
notice as with passover, it varies greatly with our calendar year. It is the
calendar that God uses for events that are tied in with Israel. The former
and the latter rain calendar is set by the Lord. As are the feast days, and
other holy days. As long as there is life on this planet.

[Dr. Who]

On Sep 27, 2022, Ollie Smth wrote
(in article<8fcc5b71-9a55-4f88...@googlegroups.com>):

> Yep.
>
> "Nissan is the first month on the Jewish calendar.
> Before the Jews left Egypt, on the first day of the month of Nissan, G‑d
> told Moses and Aaron: 'This chodesh (new moon, or month) shall be to you the
> head of months.' Thus the peculiarity of the Jewish calendar: the year begins
> on Rosh Hashanah, the first day of the month of Tishrei (the anniversary of
> the creation of Adam and Eve), but Tishrei is not the first month. Rosh
> Hashanah is actually referred to in the Torah as “the first day of the
> seventh month.”
> See https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3921740/jewish/The-Jewish-M
> onth.htm
>
> I.e. while Tishrei [seventh month] is regarded as the new year, Nissan is set
> as the first month [due to Exo 12:2].
> See chart in
> https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3921740/jewish/The-Jewish-Month
> .htm

From the text that you quote comes this.
In the 4th century CE, the sage HillelII foresaw the disbandment of the
Sanhedrin, and understood that we would no longer be able to follow a
Sanhedrin-based calendar. So Hillel and his rabbinical court established
the perpetual calendar which is followed today.

Which shows that it was man ordained, and not ordained by the Lord. They also
changed the days in the months, added non biblical Holy days like Hanukkah,
etc. and added their own "torahs".

Which then begs the question regarding the prophesy about the changing of the
times by man.

Odd, that man today is seeking "harmony with nature" and the lunar cycles are
followed by all of nature, except the minds of men. Even the monthly cycles
of women follow the moon to a great degree.

The Sun has been followed by pagan religions, and men, outside of God and
todays people now often mix and match the two according to their desires.

> > Mock me all you desire, yet this is the word of the Lord.
> >
> > “In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S
> > passover.” (Lev 23:5)
> >
> > Where is there any mention of a fiscal year in the Word of God?
> >
> > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was
> > it
> > after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?
>

> More likely an ancient practice driven by agricultural cycles -
> "In the earliest times the Hebrew year began in autumn with the opening of
> the economic year...

Actually it began in Nisan/march-april which is when life begins anew as the
seeds are sown and coming to life. And this from the earliest of time for the
Jewish nation. What you are speaking of is of men without dependency on God,
but on Financial Markets.
>
> This system of dating the New-Year is that which was adopted by the Semites
> generally, while other peoples, as the Greeks and Persians, began the year in
> spring, both methods of reckoning being primarily agricultural and based on
> the seasons of seed-time and harvest...".
> See https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14531-trumpets-feast-of

And as noted, this was all during the time period were all of Israel had
divorced God. And are now living on their traditions that Jesus spoke
against.

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Mon, 26 Sep 2022 20:55:47 -0700

Is there any mention of when Year one was? Something tied to a
historical event?

>Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was it
>after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?

And this matters to you for what reasons?

>>
>> On a totally side note, I've been doing research into origins of
>> time keeping. Short form: a lunar calendar will work, as long as you
>> have no events which are tied to a season. Like Passover or Easter
>> and Spring. Or New Years and fall. Or planting and harvesting,
>> although those tend to season
>> If you do, your options are to add another month when a particular
>> event (e.g., Passover, the migration of birds, beast or fish, the
>> fields being white unto harvest, the rains, etc) falls way too early
>> for the season. Not good to have a spring festivals occurring in mid
>> winter.
>> But that is another subject for another day.
>
>As to time keeping, this is specific to the Israelite, no one else. The
>priests were the arbiter of months and days. It is a set time and as you will
>notice as with passover, it varies greatly with our calendar year. It is the
>calendar that God uses for events that are tied in with Israel. The former
>and the latter rain calendar is set by the Lord. As are the feast days, and
>other holy days. As long as there is life on this planet.

Like I said, a subject for another time.

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 2, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<a38jjhtlargc1eero...@4ax.com>):

Exo 12:1-2

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,

2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first

month of the year to you.

If you had a bible and verified those verses, then read just a bit further in
that chapter you would see the event of the Passover first happened in that
month.

>
>
> > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was
> > it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?
>
> And this matters to you for what reasons?

Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords. If you know not the
difference and the Lord were to have Holy days and feasts at a certain time,
and he also had prophetic events tied into his calendars, but man decided to
change it all and their first of the years is not the Lords calendar, then
they would be expecting things within a certain time frame and always be off.
In God's calendar some years had 12 months, others 13. Therefore if you want
to determine the number of years since Israel left Egypt and you went by 12
months a year, your numbers of years would be off. Plus, how are you going to
count the days when the sun stood still for 24 hrs one time and was rolled
back 12 another time?

>
>
> > >
> > > On a totally side note, I've been doing research into origins of
> > > time keeping. Short form: a lunar calendar will work, as long as you
> > > have no events which are tied to a season. Like Passover or Easter
> > > and Spring. Or New Years and fall. Or planting and harvesting,
> > > although those tend to season
> > > If you do, your options are to add another month when a particular
> > > event (e.g., Passover, the migration of birds, beast or fish, the
> > > fields being white unto harvest, the rains, etc) falls way too early
> > > for the season. Not good to have a spring festivals occurring in mid
> > > winter.
> > > But that is another subject for another day.
> >
> > As to time keeping, this is specific to the Israelite, no one else. The
> > priests were the arbiter of months and days. It is a set time and as you
> > will
> > notice as with passover, it varies greatly with our calendar year. It is the
> > calendar that God uses for events that are tied in with Israel. The former
> > and the latter rain calendar is set by the Lord. As are the feast days, and
> > other holy days. As long as there is life on this planet.
>
> Like I said, a subject for another time.

Yet it is tied into this.

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:42:34 -0700

typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>

>> > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was
>> > it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?
>>
>> And this matters to you for what reasons?
>
>Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords.

Ah. So Robert does not use the civil calendar because it was
established by Pagans.

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 9, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<lqa6kh52ifle824u9...@4ax.com>):

> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:42:34 -0700
> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> >
> > > > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was
> > > > it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?
> > >
> > > And this matters to you for what reasons?
> >
> > Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords.
>
> Ah. So Robert does not use the civil calendar because it was
> established by Pagans.

In matters of prophecies of God and his timing? No.

Have you no standards?

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 9, 2022, Ollie Smth wrote
(in article<bf67bafe-4b1e-4d42...@googlegroups.com>):

> On Monday, October 10, 2022 at 7:13:59 AM UTC+11, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> > Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:42:34 -0700
> > typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > >
> > > > > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item,
> > > > > was
> > > > > it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the
> > > > > South?
> > > >
> > > > And this matters to you for what reasons?
> > >
> > > Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords.
> > Ah. So Robert does not use the civil calendar because it was
> > established by Pagans.
>

> Perhaps the first Passover at Nisan [lunar calendar] is the reference point
> to calculate the dates of the end times.

Exo 12:1-3

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,

2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first
month of the year to you.

3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenthday of
this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house
of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 09 Oct 2022 16:40:49 -0700

typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>On Oct 9, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
>(in article<lqa6kh52ifle824u9...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:42:34 -0700
>> typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>> >
>> > > > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item, was
>> > > > it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the South?
>> > >
>> > > And this matters to you for what reasons?
>> >
>> > Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords.
>>
>> Ah. So Robert does not use the civil calendar because it was
>> established by Pagans.
>
>In matters of prophecies of God and his timing? No.
>
>Have you no standards?

LOL.

Yes, yes I do have standards. Which is one reason I'm perplexed
by Roberts obsession with the start of the Jewish New Year.
Reminds me of the Pentecostal prophet who felt that god had told
her to not use the civil calendar when referring to the timing of the
prophecies he was giving her. Good enough. But, seeing as how I don't
keep a conversion chart in my pocket, when one speaks of the first
month, or the third month, the presumption would be January or March.
Unless had a different calendar.

sigh, posted 12 Thermidor an 230 de la Révolution, the second year
when Biden was President.

tschus
pyotr

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 10, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<ojv8khl2ib1i0nrbh...@4ax.com>):

God set the standard and by that standard the feasts, etc. were determined.

There are various calendars and the nations that follow them make them well
known to all who care to follow them. There are prophecies in the Bible about
those who seek to change times, etc. Written and prophesied for a purpose.

The natural order of things follows the lunar cycle.It is the "green"
calendar.

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Mon, 10 Oct 2022 15:20:56 -0700

Yes, and????

>
>There are various calendars and the nations that follow them make them well
>known to all who care to follow them. There are prophecies in the Bible about
>those who seek to change times, etc. Written and prophesied for a purpose.
>
>The natural order of things follows the lunar cycle.It is the "green"
>calendar.

So what is Robert's issue with the Jews having a solar-lunar
calendar with intecalendary months added to keep Passover in the
spring?

Or is it yet another area where he'd rather be disputatious?

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 11, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<95cckhhf7iqgicq7i...@4ax.com>):

Obviously you know nothing of the Mosaic calendar, the leap years, who and
what determined the months. And then you make a foolish statement like the
above? You should have done two things at the least, 1. Study the Mosaic
calendar system as administered by the priests. And 2. Actually read what I
wrote and not listen to those funny voices in your head.

[pyotr filipivich]

Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Tue, 11 Oct 2022 22:02:49 -0700

typed in alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>On Oct 11, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote

>> Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Mon, 10 Oct 2022 15:20:56 -0700

>> > On Oct 10, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote

>> > > Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 09 Oct 2022 16:40:49 -0700

>> > > > On Oct 9, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote

>> > > > > Dr. Who <dr....@biosphere.orb> on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 10:42:34 -0700

>> > > > > > > > Who was it that set it up and when. The when is a very important item,
>> > > > > > > > was it after the time of the Jews divorcing God? Both the North and the
>> > > > > > > > South?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > And this matters to you for what reasons?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Because there is mans calendars, and there is the Lords.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Ah. So Robert does not use the civil calendar because it was
>> > > > > established by Pagans.
>> > > >
>> > > > In matters of prophecies of God and his timing? No.
>> > > >
>> > > > Have you no standards?
>> > >
>> > > LOL.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, yes I do have standards. Which is one reason I'm perplexed
>> > > by Roberts obsession with the start of the Jewish New Year.
>> > > Reminds me of the Pentecostal prophet who felt that god had told
>> > > her to not use the civil calendar when referring to the timing of the
>> > > prophecies he was giving her. Good enough. But, seeing as how I don't
>> > > keep a conversion chart in my pocket, when one speaks of the first
>> > > month, or the third month, the presumption would be January or March.
>> > > Unless had a different calendar.
>> > >
>> > > sigh, posted 12 Thermidor an 230 de la Révolution, the second year
>> > > when Biden was President.

>> > God set the standard and by that standard the feasts, etc. were determined.
>>
>> Yes, and????
>> >
>> > There are various calendars and the nations that follow them make them well
>> > known to all who care to follow them. There are prophecies in the Bible
>> > about those who seek to change times, etc. Written and prophesied for a purpose.
>> >
>> > The natural order of things follows the lunar cycle.It is the "green"
>> > calendar.
>>
>> So what is Robert's issue with the Jews having a solar-lunar
>> calendar with intecalendary months added to keep Passover in the
>> spring?
>
>Obviously you know nothing of the Mosaic calendar, the leap years, who and
>what determined the months. And then you make a foolish statement like the
>above? You should have done two things at the least, 1. Study the Mosaic
>calendar system as administered by the priests. And 2. Actually read what I
>wrote and not listen to those funny voices in your head.

Still doesn't answer the question "What is Robert's issue with the

Jews having a solar-lunar calendar with intecalendary months added to
keep Passover in the spring?"

But his responses as usual, indicate that the answer to

>> "Or is it yet another area where he'd rather be disputatious?"

would appear to be "yes".

[Dr. Who]

On Oct 13, 2022, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<jabgkht0dgddd951p...@4ax.com>):

Passover is on the same day or the same month, every year, lunar calendar.

Your question bears a false statement.