Family Struggles With Clergy Sex Abuse at OCA's St. Vladimir's Seminary

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 8:59:23 AM10/18/07

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http://wjbc.com/wire2/news/07911_IliffSexAbuseWEB_111834.htm

Family struggles with clergy sex abuse

10/17/2007 11:18:34

John and Monica Iliff in their Bloomington home with photos of their son.
Monica is wearing a locket with a photo of Eric.

When you think of clergy sexual abuse, people often think of older adults
and young children. However, a couple from Bloomington says their son would
have been 26 last week, but Eric Iliff never made it because he said he as
abused at St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary in New York. They say
the scars he suffered never healed.

Eric took his own life at a Normal hotel last March, surrounded by family
photos and a Bible. His parents consider that a sign that he never lost
faith.

Administrators removed Father Timothy Blumentritt from his position once
Eric told them he was abused. He was later defrocked by the Church.

However, Eric struggled with the fact he signed an agreement that never
acknowledged publicly what happened to him. Monica Iliff says family and
friends questioned how it could happen.

John Iliff says they knew Eric was depressed, but he wishes they had probed
deeper, sooner. He says now it's like living a bad Lifetime movie.

The Iliffs are considering whether to refile a lawsuit that was dismissed
because a judge ruled it can be resubmitted. St. Vladimir's Chancellor,
Father Chad Hatfield, would not comment on the abuse but said those at the
seminary continue to pray for Eric and his family.

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 10:15:40 AM10/18/07

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This is a case where the family is misconstruing facts. The truth behind
this is that this individual should have never have been allowed to
attended SVS. Once he was there, he himself complained of "abuse by his
own father." For this reason he under-went counseling which took a very
bad turn. The problems which this individual had were created long
before he attended SVS and certainly not a direct result of individuals
there.

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 10:40:23 AM10/18/07

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***You left out that the priest abused him and was defrocked because of it.

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message
news:fUJRi.6694$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 10:59:53 AM10/18/07

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That's not accurate nor correct.

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 11:15:30 AM10/18/07

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***So, he was defrocked for no good reason?

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:JxKRi.45506$RX.2...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 11:20:18 AM10/18/07

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***The following appeared on another Orthodox chat venue and is posted here
with permission. Could it be that there was no money to help this Matushka
because the OCA bigwigs had stolen it all?????

Al

----------------------

There continues a sadness in me and a connection to Eric Illiff.

Acknowledgment of what happened to Eric seems crucial to me in living an
authentic Christian life.

An authentic life in acknowledging life eternal and victory over death, and
retelling the Christian story.

In proclaiming this victory over death, we need to know what jaws we
escaped.

When I was set up by church administrators to cover over the abuses I
suffered, the cover was to say there was 'something wrong with me'.

The 'wrong with me' was either I was suicidal and therefore dangerous to
myself, or I was a danger to someone else.

Neither one was true.

To attempt to prove the first, that I was suicidal, I was given a drug
unaware and accusations set up.

I was then given a mental health diagnosis that was not true.

For this untrue diagnosis I was then "legally medicated".

Then I was locked away without being able to communicate with people who
knew me. I was not effectively able to use a phone, or communicate in a
manner you can in a "regular hospital".

My OCA church insurance paid for me to be an involuntary held prisoner.

When the 30 days of the OCA insurance was spent, those who had me imprisoned
said I would be at risk to be out, and they set about to in prison me for
life.

The plan of my capturers and those who took power over me to keep
controlling me, and to not have the abuse be acknowledged, then set in place
to have me transfer ed to a locked mental health facility. The captive plan
was to have me injected involuntarily, for a diagnosis I did not have for
life, paid for by the government.

All this was done to remove me from following through with the abuse
charges.

By the hand of God, I had 2 friends from the La Leche League not connected
to the Orthodox Church circles.

1 day before my captors and the proposed imprisonment for life plan was to
be executed, with their help, a pro bono lawyer traveled one hour each way
on his birthday to release me.

This attempt to silence me, happened more than once, each time I tried to
come back.

Each time I was involuntarily in prisoned, it was said it 'was for my good'.

When it was used to drive me from my church owned home, and take away my
stability of having a home, again the OCA Church insurance paid for this
involuntary prison to keep me silent, and to attempted to try to remove my
credibility as a witness in the abuse.

Without car and without a home it is not easy to do your work.

When I lost my home, all my ID cards were taken too. I had to reestablish
all my ID cards.

Within 2 weeks, I was working again as a licensed professional.

Its causes me to wonder with Eric if there were other circumstances
surrounding his suicide.

I know in my case, the push to make me look wrong continued.

I have never ever thought about committing suicide.

I have been near to death.

After my surgery for cancer, I was given an OCA insurance card for medicines
stating that it was valid, and it was invalid.

Convenient.

Out of the hospital on a Wednesday and a final day in court scheduled on a
Friday, I was in an ambulance en route to hospital early Friday am, my
child, saving my life by calling 911.

Unable to get the medication REALLY REALLY NEEDED NOW to stay alive and
live, I could not get.

I was given an OCA Prescription card stating it was active and valid when it
was not.

Now the medical crisis was reported to the judge as a mental health crisis
to keep the complications coming so the real abuse could not be
acknowledged.

I did not make my court date.

The involuntary in prison costs totaled more than $200,000

The OCA Insurance paid to keep me locked up and captive to control what
actions I could do in regards to the abuse that had occurred.

I keep away from communication with lawyers, friends, witnesses and those
who could give me aid.

Of course this 'lockup' was all done 'for my good'.

When my good was needing less than $200 for real needs, I could not get from
the same helpful do gooder's the captors, one penny.

The same Bishop who instituted a "forgiveness ritual' on round one of the
captivity did so only for the abuse charges to be dropped.

The same Bishop in last 2 years thought he could threaten me again with
silence when I gave him a letter.

The Archbishop tried to hold power over me again by threatening if I did not
leave an Orthodox Church chapel, the police would come and pick me up.

I am writing about this because I would hope this abuse of power game could
end.

I seek an authentic Christian life.

I have sought to be a pastoral counselor.

I was helped to obtain a scholarship to St. Vladimir's Seminary by Father
Thomas Hopko, following my 400 hours of Clinical Pastoral Education CPE
training in a Christian Hospital.

Last night I looked over the letter I and excitingly wrote looking for the
support I needed to get to New York to do the next step of attending the
Seminary when I was accepted, to St. Vlad's.

I wonder if I had gotten to St. Vladimir Seminary and had been able to tell
my story, would Eric Illiff be alive today?

I am so sorry to his parents.

I am sorry for Eric.

I am sorry to anyone else my weakness offended or hurt.

I just didn't have the strength and support I needed.

Father Deacon John Hopko, the secretary to Metropolitan Theodosius, at the
time wrote me about my request for help in transferring myself, and my unmet
medical needs to New York. 'I am sorry Matushka, but there is NO CATEGORY
for funds to help you'.

I hope whoever reads these words and may be moved by the Holy Spirit, will
work with me so there are funds available in special scholarships bearing
ERIC ILLIFF's name.

ERIC will not be forgotten and his courage will be remembered because there
will be categories for aid to _________ .

If you would like to join in a committee with me, we can present our
collective thoughts to do good to Eric's parents and make a plan to keep
ERIC ILLIFF's memory and to acknowledge his suffering.

Matushka Carol Klipa Bacha
P.O. Box 381
Christmas, Florida 32709
matush...@yahoo.com

P.S. I WROTE MY STORY TO THE OCA Metropolitan Council a year ago hoping even
though I had written to other Bishops in the past that now that there was a
committe formed for investigating, something would be different.

I did have Father John Meyendorff coming to the All American Council in
Miami to advocate for me before his untimely and very quick death. I first
to wrote to Father Thomas Hopko and he said, WRITE.

I wrote to about one half of the Metropolitan Council members I had
available email address to send, OF MY INVOLUNTARY CONFINEMENT AND HOW IT
WAS USED TO CIRCUMVENT THE ABUSE CHARGES, and who was involved.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO answer. From NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBody.

This is again a connection to ERIC ILLIFF and why I write today due to the
lack of the acknowledgements from these letters.

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 11:40:04 AM10/18/07

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You claim you were, but we know better, don't we!

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 12:19:43 PM10/18/07

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***Your cheap shot aside, you didn't answer my question. This tells me your
"take" on the St. Vlad's case with Eric is bull crap...and that Timothy
Blumentritt was defrocked for abusing Eric.

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:m7LRi.2972$LD2....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net...

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 1:21:23 PM10/18/07

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You love your gossip, don't you? You don't know the truth in this
matter. A clue, voyeurism. Now, to move on to more enlightening topics.

++

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Oct 18, 2007, 3:06:01 PM10/18/07

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nick cobb wrote:

> This is a case where the family is misconstruing facts. The truth
> behind this is that this individual should have never have been
> allowed to attended SVS. Once he was there, he himself complained of
> "abuse by his own father." For this reason he under-went counseling
> which took a very bad turn. The problems which this individual had
> were created long before he attended SVS and certainly not a direct
> result of individuals there.

Then why was Mr. Bloomentritt defrocked?

Troia

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Oct 18, 2007, 3:15:33 PM10/18/07

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Seems like a lot of effort to blame a victim for being vulnerable in the
first place.

If I understand correctly: someone who works at a theological
institution, in a position of authority, took to "counseling" Eric, and
the abuse that occurred therein is more significant than simply having
taken "a very bad turn" -- instead of providing counsel, the
vulnerability was used as a path to further abuse a vulnerable person.
Eric was victimized where he went looking for help, and blaming him for
needing that help in the first place does -nothing- to hold the abuser
accountable for his own deeds, nor those over him for allowing that sort
of abuse of authority.

-- Troia

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 3:18:51 PM10/18/07

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Oct 18, 2007, 3:47:17 PM10/18/07

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I don't often agree with you, Al, but to blame the vulnerable and
obviously-confused victim, who came to the person for counseling, rather
than the counselor who was in the position of authority, is misplaced at
a minimum. If the person in authority abuses their authority, or can't
restrain themselves from inappropriate responses, then they should not
be counseling vulnerable people in the first place.

No matter what the context, current laws hold the person in the position
of authority as accountable in such situations, and those laws were
developed from a solid moral perspective.

It would be like blaming a child for being molested by a teacher because
the child is "cute" and the teacher was trusted to be alone with them.
Or it's like saying that all cute girls are responsible for married
men hitting on them, by dint of being cute and finding themselves at
times in the mens' presence.

Blame-the-victim, that's all it is.

-- Troia

nick cobb

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Oct 18, 2007, 4:33:21 PM10/18/07

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This was an unfortunate incident. If you want the absolute truth you
need to go to the original parties. Since only one party is available,
please go see him. However, the truth is not what you think or have
manufactured in your mind.

Orthodox News

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Oct 18, 2007, 8:06:45 PM10/18/07

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***And YOU claim to be the only person alive who has the "truth." I've got a
bridge to Brooklyn to sell... Interested?

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:jqPRi.5202$R95...@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...

MJS

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Oct 19, 2007, 1:06:02 AM10/19/07

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On Oct 18, 7:15 am, nick cobb <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote:

<<This is a case where the family is misconstruing facts. The truth
behind this is that this individual should have never have been
allowed to attended SVS. Once he was there, he himself complained of
"abuse by his own father." For this reason he under-went counseling
which took a very bad turn. The problems which this individual had
were created long before he attended SVS and certainly not a direct
result of individuals there.>>

Eric Iliff had his parish priest's approval to attend SVOTS. The
priest's name is Fr. John Brown. Eric also had the approval and
blessing of Archbishop Job, his bishop. As for the rest, I believe
that you have been misinformed as to *why* Eric sought counseling.
But regardless of *why,* it is always incumbent upon the person doing
the counseling to maintain the appropriate boundaries. Fr. Timothy
Blumentritt did *not* do so. This violation of professional
boundaries seriously injured this young man, and for that the
seminary, and the OCA, should take responsibility.

Melanie Jula Sakoda

Troia

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Oct 19, 2007, 2:20:57 AM10/19/07

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MJS wrote:
...

> But regardless of *why,* it is always incumbent upon the person doing
> the counseling to maintain the appropriate boundaries. Fr. Timothy
> Blumentritt did *not* do so. This violation of professional
> boundaries seriously injured this young man, and for that the
> seminary, and the OCA, should take responsibility.
>
> Melanie Jula Sakoda
>

Thank you for stating it so cogently.

-- Troia

nick cobb

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Oct 19, 2007, 9:02:59 AM10/19/07

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This matter has been resolved. Why you people wish to rehash and elevate
this incident to levels which aren't completely true is just pure gossip.

Catherine Jefferson

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Oct 19, 2007, 10:41:57 AM10/19/07

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MJS wrote:

> But regardless of *why,* it is always incumbent upon the person doing
> the counseling to maintain the appropriate boundaries. Fr. Timothy
> Blumentritt did *not* do so. This violation of professional
> boundaries seriously injured this young man, and for that the
> seminary, and the OCA, should take responsibility.

Melanie is right. The counselor (or any other person in authority) is
*always* responsible for maintaining an appropriate distance from people
they counsel or have authority over. If that becomes impossible to do,
it is their responsibility to terminate the therapeutic relationship.
If the counselor in this story had recognized that things were getting
out of hand and terminated therapy, preferably with a referral to a more
experienced therapist, this whole sad story would never have happened.

That the young man had his own issues really is neither here nor there.
Usually people who seek counseling *do* have issues. (And those who
don't seek counseling too; most of us do.)

--
Catherine (Hampton) Jefferson <ar...@spambouncer.org>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>
Personal Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>

Dan

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Oct 19, 2007, 11:46:00 AM10/19/07

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On Oct 19, 10:41 am, Catherine Jefferson <spamt...@spambouncer.org>
wrote:

> MJS wrote:
> > But regardless of *why,* it is always incumbent upon the person doing
> > the counseling to maintain the appropriate boundaries. Fr. Timothy
> > Blumentritt did *not* do so. This violation of professional
> > boundaries seriously injured this young man, and for that the
> > seminary, and the OCA, should take responsibility.
>
> Melanie is right.

I think you mean that in this specific instance, her interpretation of
the facts is correct.

nick cobb

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Oct 19, 2007, 12:17:10 PM10/19/07

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The matter has been long resolved. I'm surprised you people don't
concentrate your efforts regarding such abuses at STOTS. Heck man,
everyone knows about those!

nick cobb

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Oct 19, 2007, 12:18:50 PM10/19/07

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The event has been addressed & resolved; time to move on.

MJS

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Oct 19, 2007, 9:24:03 PM10/19/07

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On Oct 19, 5:23 pm, nick cobb <ni...@cris.com> wrote:

<<This filing was filed AFTER this event was settled. Apparently,
after the fact, some enterprising lawyers tried to capitalize on the
event (probably put up by the parents) stating events which were
highly questionable. After learning that this episode was completely
"settled," the lawyers withdrew their filing. End of story.>>

Except that's *not* what happened. The existence of the so-called
"release" was not a surprise. The action would have gone forward,
except that Eric died.

The original case could have been continued by Eric's personal
representative. However, no motion for substitution was filed within
the applicable time limits. St. Vladimir's and the OCA then sought
dismissal of the suit "with prejudice." However, the court ruled that
there was "no basis consistent with due process on which it can now
rule on the merits of the claim when the present owners of the claim
are not before the Court." The dismissal of the action was granted,
but "without prejudice," leaving open the possibility that the suit
could be renewed.

Look for the judgment and the ruling to be posted on Pokrov.

Melanie Jula Sakoda

MJS

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Oct 19, 2007, 9:52:50 PM10/19/07

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Iliff v. St. Vladimir's (Memorandum and Order)
http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=457

Iliff v. St. Vladimir's (Judgment)
http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=456

Melanie Jula Sakoda

John Galt

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JG

++

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Oct 21, 2007, 12:37:54 AM10/21/07

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nick cobb wrote:

> This filing was filed AFTER this event was settled. Apparently, after
> the fact, some enterprising lawyers tried to capitalize on the event
> (probably put up by the parents) stating events which were highly
> questionable. After learning that this episode was completely
> "settled," the lawyers withdrew their filing. End of story.

Let's see now...Someone was abused, settled with the OCA on a gag (push
it under the rug) order, the priest who abused him , who taught pastoral
care, was defrocked, the guy got depressed because instead of becoming a
priest he was enmired in depressing thoughts, he committed the worst
sin, suicide, his parent lost their son, and you are surprised that they
sued and want openness about the abuser?

What about Father Timothy's previous parishes in Connecticut and
Massachusetts. Should there have been a gag order at all if there were
allegations serious enough to defrock him? The facts had to be pretty
severe to release him? Was he unjustly accused?

He wa pursuing a doctorate in theology at Boston College. He was a
chaplain there while a student. He is featured in articles of the Boston
College Chronicle.

The following year has him lecturing as a St. Vlad's grad and student at
Boston College at a St. Vlad's Christmas retreat organized by the Youth,
Young adult and Campus Ministry.

Orthodox New England, December 2002 edition mentions

> On August 2002, Father *Timothy Blumentritt*, who had been on an
> academic leave of absence and
> attached to Holy Annunciation
> Church, Maynard, MA, at his own
> request, was released from our
> diocese to the omophorion of His
> Beatitude Metropolitan Herman in
> order to accept a faculty position at
> Saint Vladimir’s Seminary

He lectured in pastoral theology.

February, 2004 edition has an article by Father Timothy on preparing for
confession : http://dneoca.org/files/ONE/2004/2004-02.pdf

April 24, 2005 he was slated to be a featured speaker at the Fellowship
of Orthodox Christians in America, Palm Sunday Vespers,.

He gave a lot of really nice talks, wrote a lot of nice articles, and
was suspended in 2005 according to the OCA publication The Orthodox Church:

> Blumentritt, The Rev. Timothy, who was attached to Three Hierarchs
> Chapel, St. Vladimir’s Seminary, Crestwood, NY, is suspended from all
> priestly duties / June 28, 2005.

The October, 2005 issue says that he is not only defrocked, he is deposed:

> *DEPOSED*
>
> *Blumentritt*, The Rev. Timothy, who was suspended, is now deposed
> from all sacred functions of the Holy Priesthood and his name is
> removed from the ranks of clergy of the Orthodox Church in America
> by the Holy Synod of Bishops / October 18, 2005.
>
I really don't know the diference between suspended from priestly duties
and deposed. It must mean something like the first state is reversable,
the second not.

Pokrov's page is here:

http://www.pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Sued&id=195

It's very sad. Had the abuse not occurred, there probably would have
been two priests serving in the OCA. As it is, one is defrocked,
prabably a marriage damaged, and worst of all, a promising young man
working toward the preisthood is
dead.http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/news/07911_IliffSexAbuseWEB_111834.htm

And I am selfishly thanking the good Lord that I wasn't able to work out
transportation for one of my sons to the Christmas retreat at St. Vlad's

John Galt

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Oct 21, 2007, 12:49:54 AM10/21/07

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"++" <sp...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:Qs2dnSBBmak-Sofa...@rcn.net...

nick cobb wrote:

> This filing was filed AFTER this event was settled. Apparently, after the
> fact, some enterprising lawyers tried to capitalize on the event (probably
> put up by the parents) stating events which were highly questionable.
> After learning that this episode was completely "settled," the lawyers
> withdrew their filing. End of story.

Let's see now...Someone was abused, settled with the OCA on a gag (push
it under the rug) order, the priest who abused him , who taught pastoral
care, was defrocked, the guy got depressed because instead of becoming a
priest he was enmired in depressing thoughts, he committed the worst
sin, suicide, his parent lost their son, and you are surprised that they
sued and want openness about the abuser?

ISTM that Nick has proposed one of two things -- (a) If Fr. Tim didn't do
what it was alleged he did, then the OCA is incompetent for defrocking an
innocent man; or (b), if Fr. Tim DID do what was alleged, then the process
worked?

Which is it? Fr. Tim is guilty, or the OCA is incompetent?

JG

M. Shirley Chong

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Oct 21, 2007, 4:55:31 AM10/21/07

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++ wrote:

> It's very sad. Had the abuse not occurred, there probably would have
> been two priests serving in the OCA. As it is, one is defrocked,
> prabably a marriage damaged, and worst of all, a promising young man
> working toward the preisthood is
> dead.http://www.wjbc.com/wire2/news/07911_IliffSexAbuseWEB_111834.htm
>
> And I am selfishly thanking the good Lord that I wasn't able to work out
> transportation for one of my sons to the Christmas retreat at St. Vlad's

One *excellent* reason to publicize such misdeeds is that the
perpetrator rarely has just one victim. The Roman Catholic church
scandal has revealed that the average length of time for victims to
speak up is over 20 years. Twenty years during which the victims
suffer enormous emotional torment, self questioning and self blame.
It's not at all unusual for such victims to either contemplate,
attempt or complete suicide.

If there are other victims of the priest in question, publicizing
his misdeeds may well serve the purpose of lessening their own
emotional burden, even if they are never able to come forward.

I have mentioned on this newsgroup before that I was raped by a
school guidance counselor when I was twelve years old and never said
a word to my parents (it's a long story but my parents were not to
blame). When I was seventeen, that man had moved on to another
school district, where he finally molested the wrong victim, a girl
who did speak up. I can clearly remember the huge sense of relief I
felt when I read that in the newspaper; until that moment I thought
I was the only person he'd ever done anything like that to and I
believed what he had told me about it being all my fault, that I had
made him do it.

Publicizing such matters also helps lower the chance that the
perpetrator may be able to get another job where he would have
counseling duties. I'm sure you can imagine how you'd feel if you
discovered that this man had obtained a position of trust at the
school of one your children. Avoiding the temptation to repeat a
misdeed is one of the best routes for not doing it again.

M. Shirley Chong

++

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Oct 21, 2007, 3:48:40 PM10/21/07

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John Galt wrote:

>
>ISTM that Nick has proposed one of two things -- (a) If Fr. Tim didn't do
>what it was alleged he did, then the OCA is incompetent for defrocking an
>innocent man; or (b), if Fr. Tim DID do what was alleged, then the process
>worked?
>
>Which is it? Fr. Tim is guilty, or the OCA is incompetent?
>
>JG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

keen summary

++

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Oct 21, 2007, 3:51:27 PM10/21/07

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M. Shirley Chong wrote:

And letting people know the reason for a "release" or a defrocking lets
fewe people endure what you had to endure as an innocent, i.e. the false
feeling that you might have partially authored your own abuse. This is
NEVER the case from any case I have ever heard

>
>
>

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Oct 22, 2007, 8:59:21 PM10/22/07

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"MJS" <Melanie...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:1192736239.9...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On Oct 18, 7:15 am, nick cobb <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote:
>
> <<This is a case where the family is misconstruing facts. The truth
> behind this is that this individual should have never have been
> allowed to attended SVS. Once he was there, he himself complained of
> "abuse by his own father." For this reason he under-went counseling
> which took a very bad turn. The problems which this individual had
> were created long before he attended SVS and certainly not a direct
> result of individuals there.>>
>
> Eric Iliff had his parish priest's approval to attend SVOTS. The
> priest's name is Fr. John Brown. Eric also had the approval and
> blessing of Archbishop Job, his bishop. As for the rest, I believe
> that you have been misinformed as to *why* Eric sought counseling.

> But regardless of *why,* it is always incumbent upon the person doing
> the counseling to maintain the appropriate boundaries. Fr. Timothy
> Blumentritt did *not* do so. This violation of professional
> boundaries seriously injured this young man, and for that the
> seminary, and the OCA, should take responsibility.
>

> Melanie Jula Sakoda

***Thanks for being straight with us...unlike that braggart from Stamford,
CT.

Orthodox News

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Oct 22, 2007, 9:02:45 PM10/22/07

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***The quit your bitching when she and other do as you suggest!

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:Lf5Si.11310$4V6....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...

M. Shirley Chong

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Oct 23, 2007, 7:43:46 AM10/23/07

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I wrote:

>> Publicizing such matters also helps lower the chance that the
>> perpetrator may be able to get another job where he would have
>> counseling duties. I'm sure you can imagine how you'd feel if you
>> discovered that this man had obtained a position of trust at the
>> school of one your children. Avoiding the temptation to repeat a
>> misdeed is one of the best routes for not doing it again.

++ wrote:

> And letting people know the reason for a "release" or a defrocking lets
> fewe people endure what you had to endure as an innocent, i.e. the false
> feeling that you might have partially authored your own abuse. This is
> NEVER the case from any case I have ever heard

It is always incumbent upon the person with more authority or power
to set and maintain appropriate boundaries.

I can look back and marvel at what an innocent 12 year old I
was--back in those days, it wasn't thought necessary to educate
children that young about the details of reproduction. I honestly
had no idea beyond "the daddy plants a seed in the mommy's tummy,
where the baby grows until big enough to be born." Nowadays, a
twelve year old with such ignorance would be the exception but back
then, that was average for my age group.

If, as has been alleged in this case by one poster, the young man
did attempt to seduce his counselor, all I can say is that it is not
a rare thing for people in therapy to do (for all sorts of reasons
I won't go into here). It is always up to the counselor to set and
maintain appropriate boundaries, which does not include
participating in an intimate relationship!

It is also *extremely* common for sexual predators to accuse their
victims of being seductive, initiating sexual contact, etc. It's
easier to see how ridiculous such claims are when they are made
about three year old children but it's usually just as true in the
case of older victims. Such claims are just another variation on
"but it's not my fault!" type rationalizations for bad conduct.

Shirley

nick cobb

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Oct 23, 2007, 8:21:34 AM10/23/07

to

Go cavort with some more altar boys, Al.

nick cobb

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Oct 23, 2007, 8:22:43 AM10/23/07

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We suggest you come clean about your altar boy affair.

nick cobb

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Oct 23, 2007, 8:23:51 AM10/23/07

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Gee, and we all thought Al Green left - too bad!

Catherine Jefferson

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Oct 23, 2007, 11:38:04 AM10/23/07

to

M. Shirley Chong wrote:

> It is also *extremely* common for sexual predators to accuse their
> victims of being seductive, initiating sexual contact, etc. It's easier
> to see how ridiculous such claims are when they are made about three
> year old children but it's usually just as true in the case of older
> victims. Such claims are just another variation on "but it's not my
> fault!" type rationalizations for bad conduct.

Yeah. :/ In light of what confession is for Orthodox Christians, and in
light of the fact that going to a counselor is the closest most of you
who aren't either practicing Orthodox or Catholic Christians ever get to
confession, this is doubly ironic. The *first* purpose of both
confession and therapy/counseling is to provide a place where a person
can tell themselves the truth, and face that truth, en route to
acceptance or to doing something to change it. If the confessor or
therapist is a liar in that relationship, what does that do to the whole
process?

++

unread,

Oct 23, 2007, 1:27:01 PM10/23/07

to

M. Shirley Chong wrote:

>
> It is always incumbent upon the person with more authority or power to
> set and maintain appropriate boundaries.

Especially but not only when that person is married.

>
> I can look back and marvel at what an innocent 12 year old I was--back
> in those days, it wasn't thought necessary to educate children that
> young about the details of reproduction. I honestly had no idea beyond
> "the daddy plants a seed in the mommy's tummy, where the baby grows
> until big enough to be born." Nowadays, a twelve year old with such
> ignorance would be the exception but back then, that was average for
> my age group.
>
> If, as has been alleged in this case by one poster, the young man did
> attempt to seduce his counselor, all I can say is that it is not a
> rare thing for people in therapy to do (for all sorts of reasons I
> won't go into here). It is always up to the counselor to set and
> maintain appropriate boundaries, which does not include participating
> in an intimate relationship!
>
> It is also *extremely* common for sexual predators to accuse their
> victims of being seductive, initiating sexual contact, etc. It's
> easier to see how ridiculous such claims are when they are made about
> three year old children but it's usually just as true in the case of
> older victims. Such claims are just another variation on "but it's not
> my fault!" type rationalizations for bad conduct.

It is even true of older people who are seduced by someone with the
position to deleteriously affect whether or not someone is successful in
fulfilling their livelihood or emotional or spiritual needs. In this
case, we see a young man whose livlihood as a priest was affected, who
had emotional issues to be resolved related to his father's previous
drinking problem and who attempted to carry on his spiritual life,
affected by all those things and placed under the control of someone who
could deleteriously affect all three by virtue of his being on the
faculty, being a priest as thus involved with the boy receiving
spiritual care, and being assigned as his emotional counselor to resolve
issues affecting his spirituality and ability to become a priest
himself. Triple whammy.

In your case, it was a quadruple whammy because someone took advantage
of their judging position, your spirituality, your isolation and your
innocence.

>
> Shirley
>

Orthodox News

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Oct 23, 2007, 5:13:18 PM10/23/07

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***You're such an asshole! Geesh. You make claims you can't substantiate.
Typical of SVOTS grads, right?

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:kIlTi.66$Vx3...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

Orthodox News

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Oct 23, 2007, 5:18:23 PM10/23/07

to

***Bitchslapped nut job. Eveybody knows your fellow seminarians beat the
crap out of you for your effeminate actions.

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:fHlTi.65$Vx3...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

Orthodox News

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Oct 23, 2007, 5:19:00 PM10/23/07

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***I don't live in Stamford, idiot!

"nick cobb" <ni...@nospamsnet.net> wrote in message

news:nJlTi.67$Vx...@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

nick cobb

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Oct 24, 2007, 8:46:54 AM10/24/07

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Can't wiggle out of why you were defrocked so you accuse me of false
allegations? As I've told everyone here previously, please write to the
dean of SVS and ask about Alfred G. Green's lies and libel. It really is
too bad we have to have such a sick & disturbed person like Al Green
posting here.

Orthodox News

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Oct 24, 2007, 2:08:13 PM10/24/07

to

***Everyone knows why I was defrocked...because Mrs. Green left the Orthodox
Church and returned to the Church of her birth, the RCC. Bishop Peter's
comment was..."If you can't control your wife, how can you possibly be a
deacon and teach the faith." I told his to buzz off that in this day and age
no one "controls" a spouse. And +TEETERING PETER said "bye-bye."

***You can write Syosset and find out for yourself, you lying, half-assed,
bitchslapped, queer butt liar!!!

Al

"nick cobb" <ni...@cris.com> wrote in message
news:39HTi.276$%Y6....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...

nick cobb

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Oct 24, 2007, 3:57:21 PM10/24/07

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You're a nasty SOB - you should have been taken out long before this.
The Altar boys still talk!

Orthodox News

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Oct 24, 2007, 4:09:42 PM10/24/07

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***Take the plug out of your butt and become a normal human being!!

***Is it true you raise gerbils as a hobby???

Al

"nick cobb" <ni...@cris.com> wrote in message

news:BsNTi.367$yV6...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

Orthodox News

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Oct 24, 2007, 7:53:57 PM10/24/07

to

***Since you rejected my offer of a truce, it's time for you to make an
offer. The ball is in your court, Nicky.

"nick cobb" <ni...@cris.com> wrote in message

news:BsNTi.367$yV6...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...

Orthodox News

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Oct 24, 2007, 7:54:55 PM10/24/07

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***I forgot to add...I learned all my nastiness from you, the premier SVOTS
graduate!!

"nick cobb" <ni...@cris.com> wrote in message

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littleshep...@gmail.com

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Dec 30, 2017, 6:22:49 PM12/30/17

to

Typically predator priests pick on persons known already to have been abused, or with low self esteem.

++

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Jan 4, 2018, 12:54:55 AM1/4/18

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On Saturday, 30 December 2017 18:22:49 UTC-5, littleshep...@gmail.com wrote:
> Typically predator priests pick on persons known already to have been abused, or with low self esteem.

I don't know what is typical for predator priests, but you are answering a thread from a decade ago, providing no data to back up your assertion and however helpful you hope to be, the thread is long dead

If you want to discuss this topic, may I suggest initiating a new thread?