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A Midnight Death At A Greek Orthodox Monastery
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MJS
Jun 25, 2012, 10:28:53 PM6/25/12
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Title: A Midnight Death At A Greek Orthodox Monastery
Author: Louis G. Atsaves
Date Published: 6/28/2012
Publication: The Greek Star (USA)
Links:
http://www.thegreekstar.com/
http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=1815
On June 10, 2012, near midnight, a novice monk who had left a year
earlier,returned to St. Anthony's Monastery in Florence, Arizona, and
after a confrontation with a guard, committed suicide.
Scott Nevins entered that monastery nearly eight years ago,
unbeknownst to his family, at the age of 19. Nevins was recruited to
join by followers of Fr. Ephraim, a charismatic monk. He left for the
monastery under cover of darkness, leaving his family frantic. By all
accounts he was a well-adjusted young man when he entered the
monastery.
Later, he was put on a plane to Mt. Athos with others, where he was
baptized. Nevins on the Internet through various postings proudly
spoke of his baptism.
He was soon tonsured a monk and served as a novice at St. Anthony's
Monastery for the next six years. One day, after meeting with Monk
Paisios, who apparently runs the monastery at that location, Nevins
left at 3:00 a.m. with nothing, and later sent e-mails expressing his
fears of physical harm.
A year later he returned to the monastery armed and took his own life.
He appeared at the gates of the monastery, then fled and took his life
within view of the place where he once lived for nearly seven years.
The guard at the monastery chased after him. After a shot was fired,
he was transported by helicopter to a local hospital and pronounced
dead.
Many things have been said about monk Ephraim, who appeared in America
and founded 18 monasteries within a few years. His followers blindly
follow him, claiming he is a living saint. A local restaurant in
suburban Chicago prominently displays a photograph of the living
Ephraim alongside icons. In Chicago area homes and near Kenosha, that
same photograph is displayed alongside icons.
Many call this a cult. Many refer to him as a living Saint. What
happened inside that monastery that would turn a well adjusted young
man who converted to the faith into an angry, suicidal man? What
assistance did they offer him after he left? By various accounts,
little or nothing.
Did the monastery express sorrow that one of their own died in front
of their gates? Why did they maintain silence, not even informing the
Metropolitan of San Francisco of this episode.
News of Nevins' death came from his father who posted a short notice
on various web sites where monasticism is routinely discussed. It
didn't come from our Church. And certainly not from the monastery.
What happened there? What goes on in these variously founded Fr.
Ephraim monasteries? What do they teach? Parents have been complaining
about recruiting tactics for years where young men and women are
whisked away to a monastery without their knowledge.
One young lady in the Chicago area took all her possessions and money
in the bank and joined the Ephraim founded monastery in Kenosha, which
conflicts with teachings that in order to leave the world you also
leave all your worldly possessions behind when joining a monastery.
What is next? Will our Church finally get around to investigating
these little cult centers run by the charismatic Ephraim? Will they
being publishing articles and sermons contradicting the less than
Greek Orthodox teachings of these cult centers? Will they finally
check and see the finances of the monasteries? Parishes are required
to tender financial reports annually to their Metropolitans. Do the
Ephraimite Monasteries do the same thing? If so, why not?
If our Church has no control over this cult it should tell us. But the
cult of Ephraim now has blood on its hands, and so does the Greek
Orthodox Church of America.
It is time all of us Greek Orthodox Christians demand action by our
Metropolitians. They need to investigate and correct the actions of
these cult centers. They need to completely investigate the death of
Nevins. Over ten years ago our Metropolitans in a report about
Archbishop Spyridon, bitterly complained that he allowed Fr. Ephraim
to enter America and create a fundamentalist movement that was ripping
our Church apart.
Since then nothing has happened with these monasteries other than
benign neglect. It's time for action!
Author: Louis G. Atsaves
Date Published: 6/28/2012
Publication: The Greek Star (USA)
Links:
http://www.thegreekstar.com/
http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Article&id=1815
On June 10, 2012, near midnight, a novice monk who had left a year
earlier,returned to St. Anthony's Monastery in Florence, Arizona, and
after a confrontation with a guard, committed suicide.
Scott Nevins entered that monastery nearly eight years ago,
unbeknownst to his family, at the age of 19. Nevins was recruited to
join by followers of Fr. Ephraim, a charismatic monk. He left for the
monastery under cover of darkness, leaving his family frantic. By all
accounts he was a well-adjusted young man when he entered the
monastery.
Later, he was put on a plane to Mt. Athos with others, where he was
baptized. Nevins on the Internet through various postings proudly
spoke of his baptism.
He was soon tonsured a monk and served as a novice at St. Anthony's
Monastery for the next six years. One day, after meeting with Monk
Paisios, who apparently runs the monastery at that location, Nevins
left at 3:00 a.m. with nothing, and later sent e-mails expressing his
fears of physical harm.
A year later he returned to the monastery armed and took his own life.
He appeared at the gates of the monastery, then fled and took his life
within view of the place where he once lived for nearly seven years.
The guard at the monastery chased after him. After a shot was fired,
he was transported by helicopter to a local hospital and pronounced
dead.
Many things have been said about monk Ephraim, who appeared in America
and founded 18 monasteries within a few years. His followers blindly
follow him, claiming he is a living saint. A local restaurant in
suburban Chicago prominently displays a photograph of the living
Ephraim alongside icons. In Chicago area homes and near Kenosha, that
same photograph is displayed alongside icons.
Many call this a cult. Many refer to him as a living Saint. What
happened inside that monastery that would turn a well adjusted young
man who converted to the faith into an angry, suicidal man? What
assistance did they offer him after he left? By various accounts,
little or nothing.
Did the monastery express sorrow that one of their own died in front
of their gates? Why did they maintain silence, not even informing the
Metropolitan of San Francisco of this episode.
News of Nevins' death came from his father who posted a short notice
on various web sites where monasticism is routinely discussed. It
didn't come from our Church. And certainly not from the monastery.
What happened there? What goes on in these variously founded Fr.
Ephraim monasteries? What do they teach? Parents have been complaining
about recruiting tactics for years where young men and women are
whisked away to a monastery without their knowledge.
One young lady in the Chicago area took all her possessions and money
in the bank and joined the Ephraim founded monastery in Kenosha, which
conflicts with teachings that in order to leave the world you also
leave all your worldly possessions behind when joining a monastery.
What is next? Will our Church finally get around to investigating
these little cult centers run by the charismatic Ephraim? Will they
being publishing articles and sermons contradicting the less than
Greek Orthodox teachings of these cult centers? Will they finally
check and see the finances of the monasteries? Parishes are required
to tender financial reports annually to their Metropolitans. Do the
Ephraimite Monasteries do the same thing? If so, why not?
If our Church has no control over this cult it should tell us. But the
cult of Ephraim now has blood on its hands, and so does the Greek
Orthodox Church of America.
It is time all of us Greek Orthodox Christians demand action by our
Metropolitians. They need to investigate and correct the actions of
these cult centers. They need to completely investigate the death of
Nevins. Over ten years ago our Metropolitans in a report about
Archbishop Spyridon, bitterly complained that he allowed Fr. Ephraim
to enter America and create a fundamentalist movement that was ripping
our Church apart.
Since then nothing has happened with these monasteries other than
benign neglect. It's time for action!
++
Jun 26, 2012, 2:20:59 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 25, 10:28 pm, MJS <melanie.sak...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Title: A Midnight Death At A Greek Orthodox Monastery
>
> Author: Louis G. Atsaves
>
> Date Published: 6/28/2012
>
> Publication: The Greek Star (USA)
>
> Links:
>
> http://www.thegreekstar.com/
>
Melanie,
> Title: A Midnight Death At A Greek Orthodox Monastery
>
> Author: Louis G. Atsaves
>
> Date Published: 6/28/2012
>
> Publication: The Greek Star (USA)
>
> Links:
>
> http://www.thegreekstar.com/
>
I found the following. Apparently, it was written by Sott when he was
out of the monastery. The comments are listed in reverse order by
date and are in respnse to the following Youtube video:
http://youtu.be/6Rw8SDZVsbc
Start at the bottom of the email for the video comments in order,
including Scott Nevin's comments
Elder Ephraim is a saint. People who believe this scandal are lost. My
God help them and all of us! All of these allegations are FAKE. Elder
Ephraim will one day be a saint in heaven! My god bless him and all of
Gods children. God Bless+
TheFlyingman101 1 week ago 3
ridiculous sensacionalism of media.
Loiginer 2 weeks ago
A monastery isn't a youth camp, it's a monastery. A monk leaves his or
her family and everything else in the "world." That's the first step
in being a monk. It's obvious that these family members don't have a
clue about the monastic life. Shame. May God have mercy on them.
mrdclark2003 3 weeks ago
Elder efrem is a saint! Ur all so blind, web he went to build the
monastery he took a professional scientist or whatever their called to
find water underground because obviously. It's a dessert n theirs no
running water!!! The professional man said to elder efrem with
witnesses around are u crazy? Theirs no water in the desert!!! elder
efrem said search everywhere! The man did n he Cudnt find water! The
monk prayed for 3 days n made a mark in a spot n told the guy to dig!
And so he did n found
pizza38921111 1 month ago
It is the persons chose to become a monastic. As a monastic you can
not live with your family, it is a way of life. It is not breaking up
the family, if he is living with God and praying for them there. A
monk does no live for the world or the things in it but only for their
beloved, God.
tesfailenie 1 month ago
Maybe you're right, maybe he's been bombarded with so many things in
his mind that he's "not well", but who's praying for "SkotNevins"?
Did you write, leave and bring your friends to laugh as you said you
would??
Why not pray?
You are baptized into Christ? And SN has been baptized into Christ,
making you brothers in Christ. Is this inaccurate?
It seems as though we should hit our knees contemplating our own
weaknesses and vulnerability, weeping before Christ, asking for grace
in fear kno
AbsitReverentiaVero 2 months ago
@bluepuranous
Take things a little slower... A better perspective.
I don't think a single member of the Church Triumphant will be there
laughing along with you and those friends you mentioned, let alone
Christ.
Im reminded of the words of Christ: "Simon, Simon... Satan has desired
to sift you as wheat, but I have prayed for you..."
Maybe you're right about his being bombarded with so many things in
his mind that he's "not well", in the thoughts and emotions, but who's
praying for "SkotNe
AbsitReverentiaVero 2 months ago
This is usual for the American masons to use the TV against the
Orthodoxy
ar6inkov 2 months ago
Like many others maybe SKOTNEVINS is an infiltrated CIA AGENT.
djrexy 3 months ago
Comment removed
Author withheld
Any one can see what are you.......A real Orthodox Christian never say
''Go to hell''....You are a liar!!
I told you before,You are sick...You need a psychiatrist and
medication!!
blueouranos in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
Yes, he has some issues, something is really not right with him.
Maybe he needs an exorcism by prayer and fasting, maybe a priest too.
mishakol129 in reply to blueouranos (Show the comment) 3 months ago
@blueouranos
No one is paying me to say what I say. I was baptized Greek Orthodox
on Mt. Athos at Philotheou.
skotnevins 3 months ago
You are lier and I can prove it!!I am Greek ,give me your name and in
20 minutes i will tell you if even you have step your foot at Mountain
Athos!!
blueouranos in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
If you were baptised, you would have received the Holy spirit, and you
would be full of it, with understanding, love, compassion, patience,
and all the virtues that are bestowed to one by the Holy Spirit and
Christ.You have nothing to give but lies hate and bitterness.As far as
brainwashing goes the guy that says i was brainwashed can have his
answer.Noone at this age can be brainwashed unless they want
to.Hitler's army was not brainwashed they followed him willingly. So
it is with Christ.
ZOLTRAN1 in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 1 month ago
@djrexy
djrexy @ skotnevins, "All Youtube and Google videos are FULL of New
world order evil work, even Jesse Ventura had a show "Conspiracy
Theory" where he actually exposed all the FEMA camps, Denver New World
Airport, 9-11, Georgia Stones and so many other."
djrexy @ skotnevins,"GET A LIFE!!!"
djrexy, you're nuts. What's your IQ? I'll bet the octopus beat you,
hands down. This is rediculus.
skotnevins 3 months ago
GET A LIFE!!!
djrexy in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
@blueouranos
Yes, Elder Ephraim is an evil man. He buries his monks alive. They're
not dead when they're buried, so they're bodies sag at burial. I'm not
still a novice, but I was for about six years. Elder Ephraim isn't
holy, he's demonized, and a liar. I, on the other hand, am of a sound
mind.
skotnevins 3 months ago
I told you..You are sick!!Ts ts hahahahhahaha Why with such a fantasy
you dont write video game ?hahahhahhahahhahaah I will come back with
my Greek friends to laugh a little.......Laughing
therapy...hahahhahahhahah With such a clown and free ticket you will
become selling like hot cakes......I wonder , your psychiatrist didnt
told you to avoid seeing many THRILER movies?hahahhahahahahahhahahhah
blueouranos in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE THAT ELDER EPHRAIM IS AN EVIL MAN WHO BURIES
MONKS ALIVE?! HE IS A LIVING SAINT!!
magnus56j in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 2 months ago
Yes... i have seen you answering on another video about monasteries
saying exactly the same things as here. I do not believe anything that
you say.You are a liar against all good and filled with evil. You fool
no one but yourself.Millions of your kind came and go.Millions like
you said what you say before against the only true good Christ.
Continue with your lies.Because you are build and made from lies and
hate.Know however that Christ in the end shall rule.Either you like it
or not...
ZOLTRAN1 in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 1 month ago
The Elder Ephrain is an evil man? Why do you say this? What did he do?
People are not held against their will. If the Monastery life is not
for someone, they are free to leave at will as far as I understand.
february17able in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 1 month ago 3
Aparently Skotnevins is still a novice. All Youtube and Google videos
are FULL of New world order evil work, even Jesse Ventura had a show
"Conspiracy Theory" where he actually exposed all the FEMA camps,
Denver New World Airport, 9-11, Georgia Stones and so many other. And
when you hear this from a monk, automatically you call him "crazy". If
you don't like it, GET OUT of the monastery! It's only for the ones
who are sick and want GOD's help! You must have the CHIP planted in
your BRAIN!
djrexy 3 months ago
He is sick......God have mercy!!
blueouranos in reply to djrexy (Show the comment) 3 months ago
* I mean skotnevins is sick!!Elder Efraim is a holy man and he speak
about old Orthodox prophecies,Here in Greece we know about them and we
believe them...
The saints said about them from the 4 century.
We are one step from the 3d world war.For example In Greece we know
from the prophecies about Turkey-Greece episode(war) about 2-3
days.The prophecy say it clear...Turkey will be destroyed complitely
from Russia.etc
We knew about the economy crisis and the mason politicians too 20
years ago..
blueouranos in reply to blueouranos (Show the comment) 3 months ago
the monastery is totally evil. I was a novice there for 6 years. my
dad is in this show. the elder there is a complete bigot, not the
media. it's both about the money (which is stolen) and the kids being
brain washed (as i was). there's nothing wrong with this show.
skotnevins 3 months ago
God have mercy!!You are sick my dear!!!Elder Efraim is Holy man!!!
Shame one you!!You are a lier!!!I do not know why you doing what you
doing but you are evil for sure....
blueouranos in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
Who pay you money to say what you say???Go and confess and ask from
the God his mercy about it!!Its a shame your propaganda about Elder
Efraim!!!!
What are you?Evaggelican? Shame on you!!!
blueouranos in reply to skotnevins (Show the comment) 3 months ago
If only you had such enthusiasm for JESUS instead of a controversial
abbot.
kori4580 in reply to blueouranos (Show the comment) 2 months ago
παλαιοημερολογιτες!
manguard1976 3 months ago
Why does the media care how much is spent on this monastery ? I
thought this was about kids being brainwashed ? why are they
concerned about the number of monasteries in the USA? I think the
media is just trying to implicate another Church group of scandal just
like they did to the Roman Church in america ??? how much do these
media outlets spend on the Democratic candidates who run for office?
what a sham, this is bigotry
Vendetta029 3 months ago
Their problem is because is Christian Orthodox If was heretic they
will had not problem be sure about that!!!
blueouranos in reply to Vendetta029 (Show the comment) 3 months ago
IF you look at a monastery without the lens of the Gospels and
Christian History and Athonite Tradition. Then it can be considered a
"Mental Prison". If however you look at this institution through the
lens of the Gospels, Christian history and Athonite Tradition, you
will discover that it is a Monastery. Just like the Roman Catholic
ones, just with more incense and Icons.
TheSecretHarp 4 months ago
The Orthodox Monastery is not Roman Catholic nor held any Roman
Catholic Dogma et all. Otherwise the point you made is good.
february17able in reply to TheSecretHarp (Show the comment) 1 month
ago
@TheSpyridon1
This news story is by no means a joke! I was a novice at st. anthony's
for 6 years! For crying out loud! The monks get buried alive! That's
why their bodies sag at burial. It's no typical monstery.
skotnevins 4 months ago
This news story is a joke. People become monks voluntarily, and can
leave as well. Christ does divide even families-as He said inthe
gospels.
I know people at this place, and it' just a typical orthodox monastery
TheSpyridon1 4 months ago
No. Bishop Gerasimos in San Francisco is their bishop.
@markos824 What on earth are you talking about?
skotnevins 4 months ago
Are they old calanderists ?
Ettoredipugnar 4 months ago
I am thinking the same...as I remember,yes they are!
manguard1976 in reply to Ettoredipugnar (Show the comment) 3 months
ago
maybe those people went there and they thought they gonna do whatever
they want to wake up any time they want to read any book they want to
watch tv maybe take a vacation couple weeks a year
markos824 4 months ago
NO, I WAS A NOVICE THERE FOR 6 YEARS! "grow up"? just because people
say things to you, doesn't mean you can say those same things to
other people. That's not what's going on there.
skotnevins 4 months ago
Comment removed
Author withheld
People are so afraid of what they do not understand so what do you do?
You make it a mystery you tell children ghost stories, you lie, you
cheat and steal hurtful as you can be it's human nature. These news
reports make me wanna vomit. Control over the kids? Really? It's the
life they choose. You need to study and pray to become godly. I'm
done and will not respond to anyone who has nothing positive to say.
Church isn't religion, Religion is in your heart it's a personal
relationship with God.
GeorgeTheGreek1978 6 months ago 2
Exactly! That's why they went there. Some people dont know what they
read in the Gospels.
jleveq in reply to GeorgeTheGreek1978 (Show the comment) 5 months ago
wow I bet not one of you even really know Greek orthodoxy to the
fullest and you will never understand it. I myself born into the
church and was raised in Greek school all my life will never grasp the
religion fully. But I will not put down anyone's faith like all of you
have. Christians are inherently evil it's not the religion that made
them evil it was the power it gave them. as they say Gun's don't kill
people, People Kill people" Grow up all of you. Look at true evil in
the middle east.
GeorgeTheGreek1978 6 months ago
I don't see how any of that is inheritly non ascetical, even the
ascetics have to eat, and wine is not bad either, plus its probably
imported from Greece since he is Greek and is from Greece. having a
personal cook is a good thing too because in the monastic writings it
is written that having someone else prepare your food is good for
monks because it leaves them free from thinking about what to eat.
I don't believe you're accusations until I have proof
mishakol129 6 months ago
He's no ascetic either! He has two refrigerators full of expensive,
imported foods all to himself, and his own, personal cook. He eats
lobster, imported cheeses, and fine wine, daily.
skotnevins 6 months ago
uh...if you're responding to me, I'm not David Smith. I'm Scott
Nevins. My dad is Ashley Nevins. He's the guy in the T.V. show with
the beard. I'm the monk in the T.V. show setting the tables. I assure
you that I made the cut as a monastic.
skotnevins 6 months ago
david shut up u just were not fit for the monastic life dont blame
others just because u didnt cut it.. your statement show a high level
of ignorance about free masonry, the zionist movement and the tango
between the roman church and all of these secret societies.. my
advice is educate urself first before running ur mouth.. sorry if i
seem harsh but i am rebuking u as a brother..
sinfulyetsaved 6 months ago
I was a novice at St. Anthony's for 6 years. The Elder is a satanist;
he's a chralatan; he's lying about everything. I am Scott Nevins! The
monastery is a cult.
skotnevins 6 months ago
The FEMA camps are all over Youtube and the Internet. It is not the
monasteries fault Smith was ignorant of the subject.
Pilgrim1411 7 months ago
I think David Smith was probably a CIA or secret society infiltrator.
Pilgrim1411 10 months ago
nickk - not the imposter
Jun 26, 2012, 5:35:41 PM6/26/12
to
“90% of the problems with monasticism in America can be solved by closing every monastery and building one. 100 monks is a lot healthier than 150 monasteries.”
++
Jun 26, 2012, 9:04:11 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 26, 5:35 pm, nickk - not the imposter <nickkc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
interested in becoming a monk was to choose a monastery with a lot of
monks, not a small monastery. But size itself is not the only
criterion. The spirituality of the Igumen is important.
wrote:
> “90% of the problems with monasticism in America can be solved by closing every monastery and building one. 100 monks is a lot healthier than 150 monasteries.”
Good advice, and in fact the advice Metropolitan Jonah gave someone
interested in becoming a monk was to choose a monastery with a lot of
monks, not a small monastery. But size itself is not the only
criterion. The spirituality of the Igumen is important.
Catherine Jefferson
Jun 26, 2012, 9:39:24 PM6/26/12
to
close contact with the novices.
Under His mercy,
--
Catherine Jefferson <tw8...@ergosphere.net>
Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net
++
Jun 26, 2012, 9:47:13 PM6/26/12
to
On Jun 26, 9:39 pm, Catherine Jefferson <spamt...@spambouncer.org>
wrote:
today is that at the Arizona monastery , it was not Ephraim himself
who was Igumen, but a monk Paisios and it was even claimed that
Ephraim himself did not act as confessor or spiritual father at the
monastery
Jealosies start easily at monasteries, as I have seen and so sometimes
not even the Igumen or spiritual Father knows how bad the situation is
for some souls who keep their torment by others in secret, especially
while looking only at their own sins and not reporting the sins of
others..
>
> Under His mercy,
>
> --
> Catherine Jefferson <tw86...@ergosphere.net>
> Blog/Personal:http://www.ergosphere.net
wrote:
> On 6/26/2012 6:04 PM, ++ wrote:
>
> > On Jun 26, 5:35 pm, nickk - not the imposter <nickkc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> “90% of the problems with monasticism in America can be solved by closing every monastery and building one. 100 monks is a lot healthier than 150 monasteries.”
>
> > Good advice, and in fact the advice Metropolitan Jonah gave someone
> > interested in becoming a monk was to choose a monastery with a lot of
> > monks, not a small monastery. But size itself is not the only
> > criterion. The spirituality of the Igumen is important.
>
> Perhaps even more important is the spirituality of those who will be in
> close contact with the novices.
Indeed. One thing that seems clear from the many things I just posted
>
> > On Jun 26, 5:35 pm, nickk - not the imposter <nickkc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> “90% of the problems with monasticism in America can be solved by closing every monastery and building one. 100 monks is a lot healthier than 150 monasteries.”
>
> > Good advice, and in fact the advice Metropolitan Jonah gave someone
> > interested in becoming a monk was to choose a monastery with a lot of
> > monks, not a small monastery. But size itself is not the only
> > criterion. The spirituality of the Igumen is important.
>
> Perhaps even more important is the spirituality of those who will be in
> close contact with the novices.
today is that at the Arizona monastery , it was not Ephraim himself
who was Igumen, but a monk Paisios and it was even claimed that
Ephraim himself did not act as confessor or spiritual father at the
monastery
Jealosies start easily at monasteries, as I have seen and so sometimes
not even the Igumen or spiritual Father knows how bad the situation is
for some souls who keep their torment by others in secret, especially
while looking only at their own sins and not reporting the sins of
others..
>
> Under His mercy,
>
> --
> Catherine Jefferson <tw86...@ergosphere.net>
> Blog/Personal:http://www.ergosphere.net
Alexander Arnakis
Jun 28, 2012, 1:25:23 AM6/28/12
to
On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:39:24 -0700, Catherine Jefferson
<spam...@spambouncer.org> wrote:
>
>Perhaps even more important is the spirituality of those who will be in
>close contact with the novices.
>
I think the unspoken assumption here is that the novices will be
<spam...@spambouncer.org> wrote:
>
>Perhaps even more important is the spirituality of those who will be in
>close contact with the novices.
>
young, naive, and impressionable.
Perhaps there should be a minimum age limit for becoming a monk --
perhaps 25? That way the person has had a chance to explore other
alternatives in life.
Monasteries should not be a dumping ground for "troubled" youth.
nickk - not the imposter
Jun 28, 2012, 8:54:01 AM6/28/12
to
The REAL need is for all Orthodox to be enlightened as to what these monasteries really are. Monasteries are not just places filled with HOLY PEOPLE. They are places where broken people go to try and conquer their passions, repent and get closer to God. However, behind this mask are people also who can be filled with evil. This is why a very wise, tried & true Abbot is absolutely necessary in EVERY monastery. If the leader is corrupt, what can anyone expect!
A good visualization can be Hogwarts in Harry Potter. You have the very good and you have the very bad at constant odds!
A good visualization can be Hogwarts in Harry Potter. You have the very good and you have the very bad at constant odds!
Alexander Arnakis
Jun 28, 2012, 11:19:28 AM6/28/12
to
are not nursing homes, or places for group therapy. In fact, in Mt.
Athos, all the monasteries take great pains to screen out the nut
cases that apply (of which there are many).
In America, there may be an incentive to recruit monks that haven't
passed an adequate vetting, because the American monasteries tend to
lack the optimal numbers. There may be a tendency to let everybody in
who applies, just to inflate the numbers. The other factor is the
disconnect between monasticism and American culture, which is much
greater than the equivalent disconnect in places such as Greece,
Russia, etc. This leads to Orthodox monasteries in America being seen
a "cults," even by the mainstream Orhtodox.
As for corrupt abbots, what do you make of Abbot Ephraim of Vatopedi?
He was "corrupt" in making crooked land deals with the Greek state
that vastly enriched the monastery. But there is no showing that he
profited personally, or that he molested monks, etc. It can be argued
that whatever he did was for the good of the monastery, and therefore
he was obeying a "higher calling."
BTW, Vatopedi is the favorite monastery of that fan of Mt. Athos,
Prince Charles. It's always had the reputation of being the most
"modernizing" of the Mt. Athos monasteries (porcelain plumbing
fixtures, etc.). Maybe that's the sort of thing that draws Prince
Charles.
Catherine Jefferson
Jun 28, 2012, 4:30:29 PM6/28/12
to
On 6/27/2012 10:25 PM, Alexander Arnakis wrote:
> I think the unspoken assumption here is that the novices will be
> young, naive, and impressionable.
>
> Perhaps there should be a minimum age limit for becoming a monk --
> perhaps 25? That way the person has had a chance to explore other
> alternatives in life.
>
> Monasteries should not be a dumping ground for "troubled" youth.
No kidding. :( I actually think that spending some time at a monastery
> I think the unspoken assumption here is that the novices will be
> young, naive, and impressionable.
>
> Perhaps there should be a minimum age limit for becoming a monk --
> perhaps 25? That way the person has had a chance to explore other
> alternatives in life.
>
> Monasteries should not be a dumping ground for "troubled" youth.
can be positive for some troubled young adults as long as it's the right
young adult *and* a good monastery. There's a huge difference between a
short-term retreat with work, peace, quiet and prayer to regroup, and a
permanent withdrawal from the world. A teenager or young adult who
needs to deal with issues should not be a candidate for staying at the
monastery, though, not at that time. Later, after they've dealt with
the issues and come to the point where they know their choices and their
mind and are convinced that the monastery is right for them, is another
matter.
I also think that most people need to live on their own as an adult for
a few years, in their own apartment or with a roommate or two -- not
with mom/dad/adult guardians and not in a place where they are not able
to make their own choices and responsible for the consequences of those
choices. IMHO this should apply equally before marriage or entering a
monastery. You learn so much in those years, a lot of it really
necessary stuff about yourself that prevents you from making big
mistakes that can follow you for a lifetime.
Whatever the safety checks and maturity triggers in different cultures
and different periods of history, we seem to need that in twentieth and
twenty-first century America.
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