Just what exactly does the Merneptah Stele say?
Jeffrey Graham
<excerpted from Pritchard, James B. Ancient Near Eastern Texts.
Princeton, 1969., pp. 376-378. >
The princes are prostrate, saying: "Mercy!"
Not one raises his head among the Nine Bows.
Desolation is for Tehenu; Hatti is pacified;
Plundered is the Canaan with every evil;
Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer;
Yanoam is made as that which does not exist;
Isiral (Israel) is laid waste, his seed is not;
Hurru (Syria) is become a widow for Egypt!
All lands together, they are pacified;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Doug
>
> <excerpted from Pritchard, James B. Ancient Near Eastern Texts.
> Princeton, 1969., pp. 376-378. >
>
> The princes are prostrate, saying: "Mercy!"
> Not one raises his head among the Nine Bows.
> Desolation is for Tehenu; Hatti is pacified;
> Plundered is the Canaan with every evil;
> Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer;
> Yanoam is made as that which does not exist;
> Isiral (Israel) is laid waste, his seed is not;
> Hurru (Syria) is become a widow for Egypt!
> All lands together, they are pacified;
Thanks for printing that.
It's also important to realize the dating of this stela. It's from about
1209 BC. It's the earliest mention that we have of Israel as a people
group.
Ken Smith
I don't know why we would care; that Israel existed as a
nation in ca. 1200 BC is generally accepted, largely on the
basis of the evidence of the Stele.
It proves nothing more.
Doug
> I don't know why we would care; that Israel existed as a
> nation in ca. 1200 BC is generally accepted, largely on the
> basis of the evidence of the Stele.
>
> It proves nothing more.
ROTFL. The stela proves nothing more than what it proves. ROTFL.
Kenny, you really crack me up.
Jeffrey Graham
OK, now we've established that Israel existed about a couple centuries
after the Exodus is alleged to have occurred. Now show me something
that mentions Moses or events related to the exodus. Surely the Ten
Plagues would have been mentioned. And Joshua causing the Earth to
stop rotating would have adversely effected Earth's gravity and would
have been noticed worldwide. But nobody seems to have deemed it
worthy of mention...
I personally suspect that the original person that Moses was based on
was an Egyptian. Moses (sometimes spelled "Meses") is Egyptian for
"son" or "offspring". It can be seen in the names "Ramesses" (son of
Ra", Thutmose ("son of Thoth") and Ahmoses ("son of Ihe (the
Moon-God). It was a common element in Egyptian names and comes up in
inscriptions alot. The hieroglyphic characters involved are a stick
with three fox-pelts tied to it and a side-view of a papyrus
(sometimes two) and an optional seated man.
Moses may have originally been named Ramesses, or Thutmose or
something like that but dropped the god-name part when he renounced
the egyptian religion in favor monotheism (Akhenaten, the monotheistic
pharaoh, had been pretty much demonised in the historical records, so
Moses was understandably reluctant to adopt his Aten-based monotheism)
BTW, I personally believe that Akhenaten was a prophet and that his
god, Aten is another manifestation of YHWH/Allah/etc.
Ken Smith
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 07:10:46 -0700, Doug <jaco...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Ken Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I don't know why we would care; that Israel existed as a
> >> nation in ca. 1200 BC is generally accepted, largely on the
> >> basis of the evidence of the Stele.
> >>
> >> It proves nothing more.
> >
> >ROTFL. The stela proves nothing more than what it proves. ROTFL.
> >
> >Kenny, you really crack me up.
>
> OK, now we've established that Israel existed about a couple centuries
> after the Exodus is alleged to have occurred. Now show me something
> that mentions Moses or events related to the exodus. Surely the Ten
> Plagues would have been mentioned. And Joshua causing the Earth to
> stop rotating would have adversely effected Earth's gravity and would
> have been noticed worldwide. But nobody seems to have deemed it
> worthy of mention...
They're all myths. No evidence whatever.
Doug
> They're all myths. No evidence whatever.
Take it up with Jihad Bin Ladin.
Ken Smith
Nice snip, dougie.
Doug
> I personally suspect that the original person that Moses was based on
> was an Egyptian.
Of course he was. He was born in Egypt and adopted by the daughter of
the Pharaoh.
> Moses (sometimes spelled "Meses") is Egyptian for
> "son" or "offspring".
OK.
> It can be seen in the names "Ramesses" (son of
> Ra", Thutmose ("son of Thoth") and Ahmoses ("son of Ihe (the
> Moon-God). It was a common element in Egyptian names and comes up in
> inscriptions alot. The hieroglyphic characters involved are a stick
> with three fox-pelts tied to it and a side-view of a papyrus
> (sometimes two) and an optional seated man.
> Moses may have originally been named Ramesses, or Thutmose or
> something like that but dropped the god-name part when he renounced
> the egyptian religion in favor monotheism (Akhenaten, the monotheistic
> pharaoh, had been pretty much demonised in the historical records, so
> Moses was understandably reluctant to adopt his Aten-based monotheism)
> BTW, I personally believe that Akhenaten was a prophet and that his
> god, Aten is another manifestation of YHWH/Allah/etc.
I'm not surprised that you do.
Doug
> OK, now we've established that Israel existed about a couple centuries
> after the Exodus is alleged to have occurred.
Couple of interesting points at this juncture.
#1 - This is a bona fide reference to Israel. And it happens at ca. 1207
BC.
#2 - The mention is of a people group, not a country.
#3 - The next mention in archaeological evidence doesn't happen till the
middle 800's BC. This shows the scarcity of the references. There just
are not that many.
Before #3, the critics all claimed Israel didn't exists that far back
and that it was all an invention. Amazing how flawed their method is.
> Now show me something
> that mentions Moses or events related to the exodus.
Why no mentions of this people in any record (other than the Amarna
letters) prior to this time? Because they were not in Canaan. They were
living in Egypt. The missing references are themselves consistent with
the Biblical record.
> Surely the Ten
> Plagues would have been mentioned.
I'm sure that they were. Just need to look at the right place and the
right time. You've been looking at the wrong time.
> And Joshua causing the Earth to
> stop rotating would have adversely effected Earth's gravity and would
> have been noticed worldwide.
I guess miracles don't happen in Islam, do they?
> But nobody seems to have deemed it
> worthy of mention...
Other than the Chinese?
Jeffrey Graham
>Why no mentions of this people in any record (other than the Amarna
>letters) prior to this time?
There is no mention of Israel in the Amarna records...
>> Surely the Ten
>> Plagues would have been mentioned.
>
>I'm sure that they were. Just need to look at the right place and the
>right time. You've been looking at the wrong time.
OK, then show me the "right" place to look.
>
>> And Joshua causing the Earth to
>> stop rotating would have adversely effected Earth's gravity and would
>> have been noticed worldwide.
>
>I guess miracles don't happen in Islam, do they?
So why did nobody else see this alleged "miracle"?
>
>> But nobody seems to have deemed it
>> worthy of mention...
>
>Other than the Chinese?
How about a precise reference that I could verify. That "chinese
missing day' is known to be a hoax. Where are records of mass
destruction caused when the slight variation in the earth's gravity
altered the weight id buildings, causing them to collapse? Or all the
people who would be killed or injured?