Marriage in the Movement
RICK & SARAH BAUER
I recently received a copy of the November 5, 1995 LA Bulletin. The
story on page 3, "How Disciples Stay Married" caught my eye. In bold
letters, in the top right hand corner it reads, "HAPPY ANNIVERSARY
TO THE FIRST COUPLE MARRIED IN THE MOVEMENT - MARTY & CHRIS FUQUA."
The article is written by Roger Lamb who is Managing Editor of the
LA Bulletin. I believe Roger is also associated with the production
of KNN. A quote - "Married October 12, 1981 by Kip in Boston, the
couple celebrates their 14th year..."
So.....were Kip and Elena not married "in the movement?" How about
Bruce and Robin Williams or Martin & Carmen Bently? What about
Willie and Tonya Flores or Randy and Kay McKean, were they not
married "in the movement?" Were Reese & Mary Kay Neyland not part
of "the movement" or Marty and Cathy Wooten or Sam & Geri Laing, how
about them? And how about Ed and Karen Townsend or Steve & Kim Sapp?
Do these marriages not count because they took place before 1979, or
is it because they took place at the Crossroads church of Christ? Or
maybe it's because these marriages were performed by Chuck Lucas and
not Kip McKean.
To lead members to believe that Marty and Chris Fuqua were the "first
couple married in the movement" is outrageous!
This movement did not begin in 1979. Where did Kip come from? Who
met Kip at the University of Florida, and invited him to church?
Was it not Sam Laing? Where was Bruce Williams orginally trained for
Campus Ministry? Where was Randy McKean baptized by Kip?
Why does the top leadership of the ICC continue to publish material
that revises their history? Why does Kip allow this to happen?
Why is the ICC trying to distance itself from Crossroads?
"The Lord put it upon my heart to write this letter of appreciation
to all of you. In a very real way, I owe you my ministry, my
marriage, and my very soul.
I have also been very excited about the Lord sending out the Denver
church planting from the Crossroads. Through the leaving of excellent
leaders such as Marty and Cathy, Rick and Sarah, Rich and Kerry, and
Brother and Sister Wooten is a great price to pay...we treasure
each of these individuals, because they have been so well equipped
for the ministry!"
Quote from a letter written by Kip McKean "to the Elders, Evangelists,
Deacons and all the Members of the Crossroads church of Christ,"
dated March 28, 1986
Sarah
Gintas Jazbutis
RICK & SARAH BAUER wrote:
> Why does the top leadership of the ICC continue to publish material
> that revises their history? Why does Kip allow this to happen?
> Why is the ICC trying to distance itself from Crossroads?
>
1. The victors get to write history. They're the ones left.
2. Revisionism is done to make one look good.
3. "Selective memory." Done to stay in a certain individual's
good favor.
4. Crossroads is bad history. It makes others look good, and
that Kip is just an inheritor of someone _else's_ heritage, not
the creator of a new one.
Just guesses; better guesses welcome. All will come to light
eventually.
Gintas
--
Gintas Jazbutis
Georgia Tech
e-mail: gin...@ecrc.gatech.edu
http://www.ecrc.gatech.edu/~gintas
Ovum
In article <4okpql$7...@news.internetmci.com>, RICK & SARAH BAUER
<rgb...@umd5.umd.edu> writes:
>So.....were Kip and Elena not married "in the movement?" How about
>Bruce and Robin Williams or Martin & Carmen Bently? What about
>Willie and Tonya Flores or Randy and Kay McKean, were they not
>married "in the movement?" Were Reese & Mary Kay Neyland not part
>of "the movement" or Marty and Cathy Wooten or Sam & Geri Laing, how
>about them? And how about Ed and Karen Townsend or Steve & Kim Sapp?
How bout Mark & Connie Mancini? Or the Taliaferros? Or Barry & Lynn
Beatty? The list goes on and on.....
RICK & SARAH BAUER
There were hundreds of weddings that took place at Crossroads. I
believe Tom and Kelly Brown's was one of the first I attended. It
was beautiful. The Crossroads building is excellent for such events!
I also attended Kip and Elena's wedding. The reception was held at
the Gainesville Country Club with limited invitation. I was there,
and it was extravagant.
As the movement has continued to qualify their statements on divorce,
I believe any couple who was married before 1979, outside the Boston
Church, not performed by an officially appointed Evangelist will not
count as a divorce stat *if* (when) such a thing were to happen.
"Incredibly, there have been no divorces among those married in the
ICC when both spouces have remained faithful members of the church."
ICC HomePage March, 1996
You see the ICC was not the official name of "the movement" until
1992. So there's a back door for any divorce that has taken place
between 1979 and 1992. The leadership just sweeps this dirty little
problem right out that door.
"There has never been a divorce in all the years of the Boston church."
Kip McKean - Boston Bulletin - 9/4/88
Sorry, all you folks married at the Crossroads, your union is inferior.
Does Kip group himself in that catageory? How about Carmen, Elena's
sister? Or Randy, Kip's brother?
Sarah
King Biggdan and Princess Stephanie
RICK & SARAH BAUER <rgb...@umd5.umd.edu> wrote:
>There were hundreds of weddings that took place at Crossroads. I
>believe Tom and Kelly Brown's was one of the first I attended. It
>was beautiful. The Crossroads building is excellent for such events!
What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
find out.
Dan
Dennis E. Bateman
In <4onef8$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> big...@ix.netcom.com (King
Biggdan and Princess Stephanie) writes:
>What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
>find out.
>
>Dan
>
Dan,
I don't know James Lloyd (Guess i haven't been around that long) but
Tom and Kelly are doing just fine here in the LA Church. Just today, a
couple of my friends helped them move some stuff for a yard sale
they're having this weekend.
Regards,
Dennis Bateman
member
LA Church of Christ
International Churches of Christ
I-Chun Lin
In article <4onef8$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
King Biggdan and Princess Stephanie <big...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
>find out.
James Lloyd, who had been an evangelist at the London Church of
Christ, left the ICC a few years ago.
I-Chun Lin
i...@leland.Stanford.EDU
Catherine Hampton
Dennis E. Bateman (vsma...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: >What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
: >find out.
: I don't know James Lloyd (Guess i haven't been around that long) but
: Tom and Kelly are doing just fine here in the LA Church. Just today, a
: couple of my friends helped them move some stuff for a yard sale
: they're having this weekend.
Thanks for the update, Dennis. I knew Tom and Kelly back when they were
at the Boulder Church of Christ, before any of the reconstructions, and
again when they were at the old Berkeley Church of Christ, before it
became the San Francisco Church of Christ.
Let's see.... You wouldn't by chance know Ron and Renee Quint, would you?
Catherine
RICK & SARAH BAUER
big...@ix.netcom.com (King Biggdan and Princess Stephanie) wrote:
>
> RICK & SARAH BAUER <rgb...@umd5.umd.edu> wrote:
> >There were hundreds of weddings that took place at Crossroads. I
> >believe Tom and Kelly Brown's was one of the first I attended. It
> >was beautiful. The Crossroads building is excellent for such events!
>
> find out.
Tom and Kelly were brought back from LA in 1990, after planting the
church due to "marriage problems." They later moved to DC, then to
Atlanta, and I believe are now living in LA.
James Lloyd is no longer a member of the movement. He and his wife
left several years ago. I'm not sure exactly where they are living.
Sarah
RICK & SARAH BAUER
vsma...@ix.netcom.com (Dennis E. Bateman) wrote:
>
> In <4onef8$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> big...@ix.netcom.com (King
> Biggdan and Princess Stephanie) writes:
> >What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
> >find out.
> >Dan
>
> I don't know James Lloyd (Guess i haven't been around that long) but
> Tom and Kelly are doing just fine here in the LA Church. Just today, a
> couple of my friends helped them move some stuff for a yard sale
> they're having this weekend.
> Dennis Bateman
Dennis,
How do Tom and Kelly feel about their marriage not being considered
part of "the movement." According to the logic of the article printed
in the LA Bulletin, the first marriage took place in 1981 when Marty
and Chris Fuqua said "I do."
There are literally hundreds of marriages that took place before 1981
within "the movement." Some of those folks happen to be your leaders
in LA. And actually the leaders of "the movement" was married before
1981.
Ask Tom and Kelly how long they've been in "the movement." Ask Tom
and Kelly if they were married while "in the movement."
I'd like you to seek truth on this issue. What about Kip? How long
has he been "in the movement?" Ask Bruce Williams the same. Where
they folks not "married in the movement."
Let's not get of the subject of the post here.
Sarah
King Biggdan and Princess Stephanie
i...@leland.Stanford.EDU (I-Chun Lin) wrote:
>In article <4onef8$s...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
>King Biggdan and Princess Stephanie <big...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>What happened to Tom and Kelly? How about James Lloyd? Can't seem to
>>find out.
>James Lloyd, who had been an evangelist at the London Church of
>Christ, left the ICC a few years ago.
Does anyone have more details on James Lloyd? Did he split up with
his wife before leaving? I spent time with him in Boston in fall of
'88 right after he had been recalled to Boston from London and they
were having extreme problems. I used to love to hear James preach.
It's funny, even though I look back and see all the wrongs of the ICC
(that I willingly participated in of course), I still think fondly of
and remember how exciting it was to hear certain ones preach. I
always liked James and Tom Brown most. I find it ironic that now both
of them, my two favorites, are out of the ministry. Hmmmm.
Dan
R.L.Measures
In article <4okpql$7...@news.internetmci.com>, RICK & SARAH BAUER
<rgb...@umd5.umd.edu> wrote:
---snip---
> Why does the top leadership of the ICC continue to publish material
> that revises their history? Why does Kip allow this to happen?
> Why is the ICC trying to distance itself from Crossroads?
>
--In 'God's One True Church', history revision is a tenet. The person
who calls himself 'God's Man' did not allow this happen, he ordered
it.
The Son of man said "...I am the truth...". Does it seem likely that such
a church is his?
--Rich--
Starr
RICK & SARAH BAUER <rgb...@umd5.umd.edu> wrote:
>"The Lord put it upon my heart to write this letter of appreciation
>to all of you. In a very real way, I owe you my ministry, my
>marriage, and my very soul.
>I have also been very excited about the Lord sending out the Denver
>church planting from the Crossroads. Through the leaving of excellent
>leaders such as Marty and Cathy, Rick and Sarah, Rich and Kerry, and
>Brother and Sister Wooten is a great price to pay...we treasure
>each of these individuals, because they have been so well equipped
>for the ministry!"
Well, a 50% retention rate, just like Kip said - Rick & Sarah out of
the ICC (although still married :), Rich and Kerry divorced (Rich out,
Kerry in) tho I believe all the Wootens (elder & junior) are still in.