Kip McKean's salary
Keith
salary is? A recent post here had a link that shows that the Gempel's
made $133,000 from HOPE alone in 1997, so I would guess that Kip raked
in far more.
Here is the link to how much the Gempel's made in 1997
<http://www.reveal.org/library/legal/hope/1997/hope0019.html>
--
Keith
Glad to be Free
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Allen Barnett
>
> Does anyone here know, from some reliable means, what Kip McKean's
> salary is? A recent post here had a link that shows that the Gempel's
> made $133,000 from HOPE alone in 1997, so I would guess that Kip raked
> in far more.
>
> Here is the link to how much the Gempel's made in 1997
>
> <http://www.reveal.org/library/legal/hope/1997/hope0019.html>
>
> --
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
***
Are you kidding ? --- Kip's salary is the most closely guarded
secret in the ICC.
But - I can tell you more about 'other' ICC people ...
From HOPE WW 990 Form for 1998
Robert Gempel 97,019 17,603
Patricia Gemple 35,000 599
David Matulinok 85,663 16,774
Shaun Wooten 93,243 6,789
Randolph Jordan 87,476 1,207 + 6,340
Daniel Liu 82,835 9,716
Marc Aguire 76,557 0
Gerald Fredrick 70,028 19,710
Lawton Chiles & Assoc 65,000
The first Column is Salary - the second is Contribution to
Employee Benefit Plans.
Yep --- that's 3/4 of a MILLION DOLLARS of Charity Money - spread
between 9 people with ICC connections.
This and other 990 forms can be downloaded in adobe.pdf format
from the following link. If you have questions about finding
stuff on this site - drop me a line.
PS --- You should see the pay-out at HOPE for Children - the
Adoption Agency !!!
--
Allen Barnett
Lawrenceville, Georgia
andy...@my-deja.com
Keith <pellu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Does anyone here know, from some reliable means, what Kip McKean's
> salary is? A recent post here had a link that shows that the Gempel's
> made $133,000 from HOPE alone in 1997, so I would guess that Kip raked
> in far more.
>
> Here is the link to how much the Gempel's made in 1997
>
> <http://www.reveal.org/library/legal/hope/1997/hope0019.html>
Actually Keith that is just what the gempels made from Hope World wide,
what did they make from other ICC sources? Also did you happen to
notice all the directors of Hope are leaders of the ICC, all owing
their livelihood to kip mckean. Not one outside board member is listed,
do you really think this board is in anyway, shape, or form independent
of kip mckean?
Anyway to answer your question, I don't know if anyone knows what he
makes (he gets everything from rich relatives you know), and those that
do know are not going to tell. I did do a economic reality test of the
mckeans lifestyle and came up that someone would have to have an income
of at least $200k (if memory serves but I'll do a deja search on my
post) remember that the payments on that condo alone will run close to
$30k a year and that doesn't include assessment (maybe $250/month or
more). Lets us not forget two kids in Bretwood ($13,000 a piece) and
one in Harvard ($30k/yr correct me if I'm wrong please) so we are
talking $89k just for all of these. Now add on other things and taxes
and you get the picture. Remember that according to the U.S. census the
85 percentile on family incomes is about $79K, that means that 85% of
American families have household incomes under $79k
Andy
> --
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
>
Keith
andy...@my-deja.com wrote:
Not one outside board member is listed, do you really think this board
is in anyway, shape, or form independent of kip mckean?
No. The manner in which HOPE is run and the deception of outsiders (not
revealing that HOPE is just a front of the ICC) figured prominently in
my decision to leave the ICC. I concluded that a dishonest church
cannot be "God's modern day movement".
Keith
allen_...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> This and other 990 forms can be downloaded in adobe.pdf format
> from the following link. If you have questions about finding
> stuff on this site - drop me a line.
>
> >
> http://www.guidestar.org/
>
> PS --- You should see the pay-out at HOPE for Children - the
> Adoption Agency !!!
>
> --
> Allen Barnett
> Lawrenceville, Georgia
>
Allen, maybe I am missing something?? I checked out the payouts for HOPE
for Children Adoption Agency in Georgia. I found that the highest
salary, $60K+, was a bit high, but not extreme. So what was it that you
had seen.
Allen Barnett
***
I'm glad you asked that question - because I think what you see
is a matter of 'perspective' gleaned from the 'whole picture'.
HFC is one of the most prominent and preached about HOPE Agencies
- [especially according to the Louisville group]. Let's take
their 1997 Form 990 - because it is available to all from
guidestar.
The total revenue - Income - was $ 876,838.00 . Two people
within this organization took the following:
Marc Johnson 64,783 8,550
Marcus Crockett 30,000 1,533
Just these two employees took $ 104,866.00 in Salary and
Benefits. That's 8.4% of the total revenue - paid out to these
two individuals. Another $ 278,331.00 plus $ 40,171.00 in other
employee benefits and another $ 49,487.00 was paid out in payroll
taxes. Let's add this up ... that's $ 472,855 spent on Employees
Salary Related Expenses to adopt out a total of [27] 13 + 14
kids. That's 54% of the total revenue spent on salary - or - 27
kids adoption cost $17,000 each in employee salary expenses -
alone.
Take a look at Statement 3 - Other Expenses - $ 81,777 for a
Special Event ? --- Fund Raising ! $ 52,943 for
Advertising/Promotion ? Add $ 172,482 UN-Specified Program
Expense ... What could that be ??? There's a reporting column
for just about everything pre-printed on the 990 form.
Then take a look at Part VII line 93a --- $ 300,506 was Collected
from the Adoptive Parents for Adoption Services. This means that
in order to get these 27 kids properly adopted - somebody paid
HOPE - CASH for their Services ... IN Addition to all they
collected under the guise of being an Awesome Charity.
Charities should not Waste Money. I think it is proper to hold
the the Director and his supreme commander responsible. IF HFC
is 'about getting Kids adopted' --- then their only focus should
be ... tada ... Adopting Kids. HFC seems to be more about good
preachin' material - and collecting money - than their stated
mission.
Give me a Million Dollars to work with --- and I'll personally
get more than 27 kids adopted! HOPE claims to have the same
mission.
Allen Barnett
>
> ...
> No. The manner in which HOPE is run and the deception of outsiders (not
> revealing that HOPE is just a front of the ICC) figured prominently in
> my decision to leave the ICC. I concluded that a dishonest church
> cannot be "God's modern day movement".
> --
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
***
Thanks for saying that !!
You could take it one step further by saying that Kip McKean
controls everything ... through deception. This applies to the
ICC as well as HOPE. All of this public disclosure of FACT -
might cause the ICC to leave the public as well. I'm sure that
the public will hear more about HOPE. The public needs to know
more about the ICC. Your 17 points of dis-agreement are valuable
toward that goal. Have you considered submitting your essay to
REVEAL for publication to the world? I really think you should.
I don't think that the ICC is a real church. I do think that
whatever it it --- it has proven itself to be dis-honest in too
many ways.
--
Allen Barnett
Keith
allen_...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm glad you asked that question - because I think what you see
> is a matter of 'perspective' gleaned from the 'whole picture'.
> HFC is one of the most prominent and preached about HOPE Agencies
> - [especially according to the Louisville group]. Let's take
> their 1997 Form 990 - because it is available to all from
> guidestar.
As a former member of the Louisville church, I have to say that
hard-to-adopt and international babies are being adopted. Nearly 25% of
the married couples in the church, and one non-member couple, have
adopted. I think it is around five children who were adopted by other
means than HOPE. The international adoptions cost $20,000/each, but the
figure is less for some cases. The Louisville church helps fund anyone
willing to adopt these children. [My brother-in-law and sister-in-law
adopted a critically ill child, who is now in far less risk, via HOPE.]
I am not saying that I approve of all of HOPE's practices, but the
Louisville church cannot be criticized here because it has proven
itself. Bear in mind that there is enough wrong with the Louisville ICC
to compel me to leave, but on the issue of adoption, it must be honored.
As for the HOPE adoption agency itself, I'd like to see how its expenses
compare to other not-for-profit adoption agencies. I am willing to
speak out against the ICC/HOPE when warranted, as is usually the case,
but if it does something well then I will not bring a charge on that
point.
--
Keith
Glad to be Free
Fox Mulder
Allen Barnett wrote:
> Give me a Million Dollars to work with --- and I'll personally
> get more than 27 kids adopted! HOPE claims to have the same
> mission.
Somehow, I don't think HFC is going to finance you here Allen ;-}
But, interesting enough, they are still charging recipients of the adopted
children an average of $14K (More for domestic adoptions [avg. $15,771] than
international [avg. $12,270].)
--
______________________
Fox Mulder AKA Lewis Johnson
DID 360.750.0314
FAX 360.750.9150
lewjo...@uswest.net
ICQ 1363586 <--For lurkers that need to talk--<<
http://www.geocities.com/~lewjohnson/icc/
______________________
My old church welcomes all denominations,
but mainly they prefer twenties and fifties.
Allen Barnett
>
> ...
> Actually Keith that is just what the gempels made from Hope World wide,
> what did they make from other ICC sources? Also did you happen to
> notice all the directors of Hope are leaders of the ICC, all owing
> their livelihood to kip mckean. Not one outside board member is listed,
> do you really think this board is in anyway, shape, or form independent
> of kip mckean?
***
Let me add a point of observation that supports what andy says
above ... Mr. Gemple's Form 990 Salary dropped from a 1997 value
of $ 102,886 - to - a 1998 value of $ 97,019 - [but his employee
benefit plans increased - I therefore don't feel quite so much
pity for him going broke at this point]. This is interesting -
but ALSO in full compliance with a new 1998 IRS rule which
reads: [or clearly asks the following question]
"Did any officer, director, trustee, or key employee receive
aggregate compensation of more than $100,000 from your
organization and all related organizations, of which more than
$10,000 was provided by the related organizations?" 1998 IRS 990
Part V - line 75
HOPE WW 1998/990 answer was NO. What does this mean? It looks
to me like Mr. Gemple agreed to a reduced salary from HOPE in
order to avoid disclosing his 'other salaries' which would have
been publicly reported on a separate IRS required schedule.
Adding to this theory - all other HOPE WW salaries were reduced
to less than $100,000 between 1997 and 1998.
Without a proper explanation from Mr. Gemple [why bother to ask -
he's too busy saving souls for the lord] --- this shows evidence
of deception [by all concerned] to avoid complete public
disclosure of his ICC related income! How do you read it?
--
Allen Barnett
Allen Barnett
>
> ...
> As a former member of the Louisville church, I have to say that
> hard-to-adopt and international babies are being adopted. Nearly 25% of
> the married couples in the church, and one non-member couple, have
> adopted. I think it is around five children who were adopted by other
> means than HOPE. The international adoptions cost $20,000/each, but the
> figure is less for some cases. The Louisville church helps fund anyone
> willing to adopt these children. [My brother-in-law and sister-in-law
> adopted a critically ill child, who is now in far less risk, via HOPE.]
>
> I am not saying that I approve of all of HOPE's practices, but the
> Louisville church cannot be criticized here because it has proven
> itself. Bear in mind that there is enough wrong with the Louisville ICC
> to compel me to leave, but on the issue of adoption, it must be honored.
>
> As for the HOPE adoption agency itself, I'd like to see how its expenses
> compare to other not-for-profit adoption agencies. I am willing to
> speak out against the ICC/HOPE when warranted, as is usually the case,
> but if it does something well then I will not bring a charge on that
> point.
>
> --
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
***
Let me ask ... do you know [if or if not] ... HOPE Adoptions
[other than that one or perhaps five others] has often adopted a
kid into a NON-ICC family? What percentage does this 501c Public
Charity - serve the NON-ICC Public? Positive Adoptions are good
all around --- failure to Adopt *because the adoptive family was
not ICC positive* - might be bad. What are the rules by which
they decide? What do you know about the overall Historical
Adoption Record [ICC positive -vs- ICC negative] of HFC? IS HFC
promoting ICC membership as a pre-requsite for obtaining an
otherwise acceptable adoption request? Adoptions for the Public
- or Adoptions for the ICC --- that is the question.
Other Adoption Agencies: You can use Guidestar to search ANY
Public Charity. Some may not be listed there ... but what the
hey ... most of the HOPE Affiliates don't even file !
--
Allen Barnett
Allen Barnett
>
> Allen Barnett wrote:
>
> > Give me a Million Dollars to work with --- and I'll personally
> > get more than 27 kids adopted! HOPE claims to have the same
> > mission.
>
> Somehow, I don't think HFC is going to finance you here Allen ;-}
> But, interesting enough, they are still charging recipients of the adopted
> children an average of $14K (More for domestic adoptions [avg. $15,771] than
> international [avg. $12,270].)
>
> --
> ______________________
> Fox Mulder AKA Lewis Johnson
***
Fox --- have you been 'fancy ciphering' again ??? It's not the
math that concerns me ... it is the fact that HOPE FC collects
money from so many sources to facilitate their stated mission -
Adoptions. The money is coming in from: 1) the public 2) the
gov't 3) corporations 4) the ICC special collections 5)
prospective adoptive families 6) friends of prospective adoptive
families 7) who knows where else.
Once this $money$ is there [it's never enough] ... It's under the
'Board control' of the ICC - and some of us know WHO that means.
Is HOPE [any of em'] - really a 501c Public Charity - or another
box full of money for: "you know who" - to disburse as he wishes?
Tell you what ... if you gave me a cigar box full of money [hi
Rule] ... by the end of the year I could not tell you where it
all went --- but somehow, given enough time, I could tell the
IRS. Every single HOPE 990 is filed late. They are due at the
IRS in April - and ICC members who happen to work for HOPE are
paid well to act as 'Financial VPs or Accounting
SubContractors'. HOPE reports are always late. Where is the
leadership when you need a strong rebuking ???
The Public deserves a representative on the Board of each and
every 501c HOPE Charity. So far - it seems that Kip has us [the
Public] by the ball_. Dang ... excuse the _ ... I meant to say $
.
--
Allen Barnett
Keith
> Let me ask ... do you know [if or if not] ... HOPE Adoptions
> [other than that one or perhaps five others] has often adopted a
> kid into a NON-ICC family? What percentage does this 501c Public
> Charity - serve the NON-ICC Public? Positive Adoptions are good
> all around --- failure to Adopt *because the adoptive family was
> not ICC positive* - might be bad. What are the rules by which
> they decide? What do you know about the overall Historical
> Adoption Record [ICC positive -vs- ICC negative] of HFC? IS HFC
> promoting ICC membership as a pre-requsite for obtaining an
> otherwise acceptable adoption request? Adoptions for the Public
> - or Adoptions for the ICC --- that is the question.
There was one non-ICC member HOPE adoption in Louisville. There were
about five non-HOPE adoptions by ICC members.
As far as I know, HOPE itself is open to any qualified persons, but does
not particularly seek out non-ICC people. In Louisville, the passion is
strong in the church and there have been efforts to get non-ICC people
to adopt. Unlike the usual case, the passion is real for adopting and
is not being shoved down people's throats.
On this isoloated issue the Louisville ICC is setting an example that
should be followed. Nevertheless, I have not seen any evidence that
HOPE-elsewhere is calling out to the community to adopt these kids.
--
Keith
Glad to be Free
Keith
I know that the HOPE engaged in at least two acts of public deception
locally.
1. As part of getting a government grant, it was supposed to have a
training workshop to teach the community about lead poisoning
prevention. On the mid-week service just prior to this event, ICC
member were told they had to "volunteer" to be there, not as HOPE
volunteers, but as members of the community so that there would be
enough people "trained" to comply with the grant requirements. NOTE:
the vast majority of these people had already been trained in this area
and had been out to community drives in previous years. I do not think
that any laws were broken, but certainly the "spirit" of the grant's
terms was.
2. The usual act of covering up the ICC relationship when soliciting
funds from the community.
Allen Barnett
>
> ...
> On this isoloated issue the Louisville ICC is setting an example that
> should be followed. Nevertheless, I have not seen any evidence that
> HOPE-elsewhere is calling out to the community to adopt these kids.
>
> --
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
***
Well, ... from my perspective [Atlanta, and studying all of HOPE]
- I have seen that HOPE is calling out to the community for
Members or Money. As a 501c Public Charity ... IF that was even
Kip's 'plan' in the first place ... HOPE should seek and install
qualified Board Members from the Public arena to assure that Kip
McKean is not in charge of the direction of the HOPE entities.
This is either a Charity to benefit the Public - or a Charity to
benefit his ICC. At the moment - it appears that Kip has us by
the _ _ _ _ $ - by retaining Board Member Control of the entire
HOPE organization.
I just want this fact to be well known - the Public will decide.
I'm totally tired of all the deception that hovers over Kip
McKean, the ICC and HOPE.
--
Allen Barnett
Allen Barnett
> Keith
>
> Glad to be Free
***
You'll feel a lot better, - IF in addition to telling us here -
you tell the people in charge of this public funding - the
Officials of your state gov't. - what you just told us here.
Deception was outlawed by God in the Old Testament. Only
habitual liars and leaders of the ICC want to excuse what God
said. I don't believe for a minute that any 'new reading of the
scriptures' could possibly produce a christian attitude like this
...
"...there are times, certainly, that the only way to get into a
country, would be to get in illegally - because there are many,
many places in the world that it's against the law to preach
Christ and Christianity. In those cases the Bible would say you,
you have to ignore those laws. {interview continues} Jesus must
be preached everywhere. {interview continues} I'm not going to
lie - if there's any other way, to do it." (Al Baird, transcribed
from an Interview on BBC's NewsNight Broadcast)
--
Allen Barnett