Bearing fruit the ICC way
Callisto
Every time I see this kind of garbage put out by the ICC I thank me God that
I have left.
What's funny is that when I spoke with the evangelist of the sac church
about my doctrinal differences, he said people shouldn't get focused on
fruit as being baptisms and this was not taught this way any longer (you
know because, "things are changing")
****************************************************************************
****************************
BEARING FRUIT
We as disciples can never forget our purpose in life is to bear fruit. To
bring people to God. It's so important to share our lives with our friends
and family and to help them to see the real God and Jesus we must serve. So
many people out there don't know who God/Jesus is and it's our job to teach
them. It's also very important to know that bearing fruit isn't just
helping others to get to know God but also how you change your life and
becoming more like Jesus every day. You need to add to your life every day
and work hard to get rid of the ugly things in your life. You need to
strive to be like Jesus every day. Here's a few scriptures that will help
you to bear "much" fruit.
Read John 15:1-8. How can I bring glory to God? What fruit have I borne?
(Be very real with where you are at and get help if you don't see any fruit
in your life.) What does God need to prune in me in order to become more
fruitful? How can I resist pruning? God guarantees us abundant fruit if we
remain in the vine. How do we do that? How does God treat the unfruitful?
We need to be concerned when we are not fruitful!!! You need to see that
God want's you to be fruitful. It's very important to God. Is it important
to you?
Read Matthew 9:35-38. What do you see when you look at people? How are
people harassed and helpless without God? You can never forget how you felt
when God wasn't part of your life. Do you remember the pain and the
loneliness? A good idea will be to make a list of the things you remember
feeling, it will help you to never forget. Are you a person of compassion?
You need to pray that God will help you to be a man/woman of compassion.
Let's take action and help others as we never forget where we came from
prior to following Jesus!!!
Read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. What was Paul's attitude about relating to
others? Who do you not relate to very easily? Why not? Make a list. Paul is
so amazing! I just love his heart for the lost. Pray that God will help you
to have a heart like Paul where you will go to any length to help people to
get to know God. Let's decide to learn how to relate to everyone to allow
all types of people to be saved because their salvation depends on it!!!
****************************************************************************
*******************
-Stacey
patm...@aol.comnospam
>Here is the e-mail from aces on-line for today:
>
>Every time I see this kind of garbage put out by the ICC I thank me God that
>I have left.
>
>What's funny is that when I spoke with the evangelist of the sac church
>about my doctrinal differences, he said people shouldn't get focused on
>fruit as being baptisms and this was not taught this way any longer (you
>know because, "things are changing")
"Have you been personally fruitful, and let me spell it out for you.
Someone you met, someone you studied with, and someone you personally
baptized. Who’s been personally fruitful since last year? Raise your
hand. Well, it’s better, but I want you to look around. These people
with their hands raised are not to be commended, they’ve simply done
their duty. But you that don’t, you need to be rebuked! You’re in sin!
Sin of cowardice, sin of unbelief, and the sin of laziness. And you need
to talk to someone right after this message."
- Kip McKean, Preach The Word,
Johannesburg World Leadership Conference, Aug 95
For those that haven't read it, New Covenant Publications has a
discussion of "Bearing Fruit" at:
http://www.newcovpub.com/go_forth.html
Be sure to read the Marty Fuqua quote! It's a classic.
Pat
>****************************************************************************
>-Stacey
Evon
news:7mief7$o3j$2...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> "Callisto" <Call...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Here is the e-mail from aces on-line for today:
> >
> >Every time I see this kind of garbage put out by the ICC I thank me God
that
> >I have left.
> >
> >What's funny is that when I spoke with the evangelist of the sac church
> >about my doctrinal differences, he said people shouldn't get focused on
> >fruit as being baptisms and this was not taught this way any longer (you
> >know because, "things are changing")
>
> "Have you been personally fruitful, and let me spell it out for you.
> Someone you met, someone you studied with, and someone you personally
> baptized. Who's been personally fruitful since last year? Raise your
> hand. Well, it's better, but I want you to look around. These people
> with their hands raised are not to be commended, they've simply done
> their duty. But you that don't, you need to be rebuked! You're in sin!
> Sin of cowardice, sin of unbelief, and the sin of laziness. And you need
> to talk to someone right after this message."
>
> - Kip McKean, Preach The Word,
> Johannesburg World Leadership Conference, Aug 95
AND.....for an update:
In October of 97, Kip McKean wrote a letter to the L.A. church in which he
claimed to have redefined his ideas concerning personal fruitfulness. He
wrote:
"Let me remind you that since the Discipleship Series, we have redefined
personal fruitfulness as either 'planting' or 'watering'. Therefore, let me
encourage each disciple to not be a dead-end disciple, but to strive to be
personally fruitful in one of three ways: One, meet someone who becomes a
disciple. Two, study and become best friends with someone who becomes a
disciple. Or three, to baptize your child into Christ."
This quote was taken from an article entitled: The Cutting Edge, A Letter to
the LA Church, by Kip McKean. It appears on page 3 of the Dec 97 / Jan 98
issue of The LA Story. Apart from Kip admitting that something (else) he has
been teaching (for almost 20 years) was incorrect and in need of being
"redefined", he is still teaching that being personally fruitful has to do
with getting someone baptized. He is still teaching that "fruit" is
something (or someone) produced by baptism. He appears to still believe that
a disciple (convert) is a "fruit".......
http://www.newcovpub.com/go_forth.html
(Much thanks, again, to New Covenant Publications for both of the above
quotes.)
(Snipped)
(Continuing with the ACES article:....)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >BEARING FRUIT
> >
> >We as disciples can never forget our purpose in life is to bear fruit. To
> >bring people to God. It's so important to share our lives with our
friends
> >and family and to help them to see the real God and Jesus we must serve.
So
> >many people out there don't know who God/Jesus is and it's our job to
teach
> >them. It's also very important to know that bearing fruit isn't just
> >helping others to get to know God
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...it is about BAPTISING people into the ICC.......just like it has always
been.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
but also how you change your life and
> >becoming more like Jesus every day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
....by BAPTISING people into the ICC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You need to add to your life every day
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.....by adding to the number of people you BAPTISE into the ICC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >and work hard to get rid of the ugly things in your life. You need to
> >strive to be like Jesus every day. Here's a few scriptures that will help
> >you to bear "much" fruit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
....and help you to want to BAPTISE more people into the ICC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >Read John 15:1-8. How can I bring glory to God? What fruit have I borne?
> >(Be very real with where you are at and get help if you don't see any
fruit
> >in your life.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
,,,,and "fruit in your life...as we can see by Kip's own definition of
"fruitfulness" is.......
yes....BAPTISING people into the ICC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What does God need to prune in me in order to become more
> >fruitful? How can I resist pruning?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
....OF COURSE.......by BAPTISING more people into the ICC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God guarantees us abundant fruit if we
> >remain in the vine. How do we do that? How does God treat the unfruitful?
> >We need to be concerned when we are not fruitful!!! You need to see that
> >God want's you to be fruitful. It's very important to God. Is it
important
> >to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Keep BAPTISING those new members, or God may cut your "unfruitful" self
right off the vine.
If you are not being "fruiful" enough, that ( as is insinuated above and has
been the experience of many former members) can be evidence that you do NOT
"remain in the vine".
This is justification for RE-BAPTISMS.
(Continuing with the ACES article:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >Read Matthew 9:35-38. What do you see when you look at people? How are
> >people harassed and helpless without God? You can never forget how you
felt
> >when God wasn't part of your life. Do you remember the pain and the
> >loneliness? A good idea will be to make a list of the things you remember
> >feeling, it will help you to never forget. Are you a person of
compassion?
> >You need to pray that God will help you to be a man/woman of compassion.
> >Let's take action and help others as we never forget where we came from
> >prior to following Jesus!!!
> >
> >Read 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. What was Paul's attitude about relating to
> >others? Who do you not relate to very easily?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How about......anyone who does NOT want to be baptised into the ICC? Can
you relate to them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Why not? Make a list.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Would anyone want to wager that such a list would start off with:
1)I cannot relate to someone who chooses to live a life of sin rather than
join, or remain in the "One True Church"...or something to that effect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul is
> >so amazing! I just love his heart for the lost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How "fruitful" was Paul....if we are measuring personal "fruitfulness" by
numbers of those we personally baptise?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pray that God will help you
> >to have a heart like
Paul where you will go to any length to help people to
> >get to know God.
Let's decide to learn how to relate to everyone to allow
> >all types of people to be saved because their salvation depends on it!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can we assume that being "relatable" and willing to "go to any length" does
not include being dishonest, feigning a false interest in someone in order
to get them involved with your church, inviting people to church functions,
with a motive to recruit, under false pretenses, or ganging up on someone
during a "Bible study" to take advantage of the peer pressure that this
encourages in order to assure that an individual comes to prearranged
conclusions?
I mean....being "relatable" can, obviously, means different things to
different people can't it?
Especially when you are in fear of being "cut off the tree" for being
"unfruitful".
<Snipped rest>
mra...@my-deja.com
I think it would be better to let the Bible define fruit as opposed to
ICC leadership. What do you think?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
ch...@icat.rmci.net
wrote:
> Here is the e-mail from aces on-line for today:
> Every time I see this kind of garbage put out by the ICC I thank me God that
> I have left.
*snip something hideous*
I'd hate to insult grammar school students in the USA ... but I would
expect them to produce better writing.
Yuck.
AHig250980
>
>In October of 97, Kip McKean wrote a letter to the L.A. church in which he
>claimed to have redefined his ideas concerning personal fruitfulness. He
>wrote:
>
>"Let me remind you that since the Discipleship Series, we have redefined
>personal fruitfulness as either 'planting' or 'watering'. Therefore, let me
>encourage each disciple to not be a dead-end disciple, but to strive to be
>personally fruitful in one of three ways: One, meet someone who becomes a
>disciple. Two, study and become best friends with someone who becomes a
>disciple. Or three, to baptize your child into Christ."
Yeah, I always got the feeling that Kip redefined this because the leaders in
the ICC rarely fit the bill of "personal fruitfulness" and something had to be
done to make them look like they were "about their purpose." Every time I
brought an unwitting victim to the group, they were always snagged by the
leaders. Although for some reason I was always glad of this since I didn't have
the heart to drag someone else into this mess.
Of course, it always IRKED me that the fruits of the Spirit in Galatians 5 were
never addressed (just ignored), but I guess that would be a whole other thread.
Athena H.
Former Member 1988-1998
Paris, New York, San Diego, Seattle
rellim
> In October of 97, Kip McKean wrote a letter to the L.A. church in
which he
> claimed to have redefined his ideas concerning personal fruitfulness.
He
> wrote:
>
> "Let me remind you that since the Discipleship Series, we have
redefined
> personal fruitfulness ...
If there ever was an act or statement to convict Mr. McKean of hubris,
that is it.
--
“A destructive cult is any group that engages in
deception as a means to achieve its ends.”
Steve Johnson Upside Down , Jan 1993
dance...@yahoo.com
mra...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <hC6j3.65278$Fz2....@news.rdc1.az.home.com>,
> "Evon" <mev...@home.com> wrote:
> ICC leadership. What do you think?
I agree.
However, I'm sure Kip McKean knows by now which side his bread's
buttered on. I guess he finally figured out it's stupid to run people
off - the mortgage and the car payments ain't gonna get made if too
many people leave the ICC.
It's just good PR for Kip McKean to throw his minions a few stale
crumbs every now and then.
(Btw, I wonder why they never let him talk on camera anymore?)
Sarah M.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atlantis/7815
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Veranda/6087
dance...@yahoo.com
dance...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In article <7mjcph$1mq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> mra...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <hC6j3.65278$Fz2....@news.rdc1.az.home.com>,
> > "Evon" <mev...@home.com> wrote:
to
> > ICC leadership. What do you think?
I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but Kip opened up a huge
loophole in his redefinition of fruitfulness:
"Or three, baptize your child into Christ."
So, does this mean that the poor schmucks who don't have kids to
baptize into the ICoC are the only ones who still have to go out and
pound the pavement. And, that would be a process - if you're "working
on your kid," could you use this as an excuse not to recruit others?
(whether by cold calls, at work, etc.) Since Kip and Elena have
baptized at least two of their kids that I know of, they are really
setting themselves up for the easy life from here on out. (Has anyone
seen him out at Starbucks lately, inviting people to church or
anything?)
Gee, the ICC is getting more and more like "those other churches" all
the time, eh? I guess Kip and the WSL's were just getting tired and
burned out playing by the "rules" that they themselves made - so now,
the rules have been changed.
(And on a side note, what's this crap about baptizing into "Christ"?
Kip may well believe that, but I would have to argue. I don't question
the hearts of the people being baptized - just the agenda of those
doing the baptizing.)
Sarah M.
--