Manila Leaders conference part 2

Scott W. Schreiber

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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Does Kip ever research what he preaches? This tape was made in 1994,
and he is talking about his 13 year old daughter and 2 younger sons
defining generation X. I believe Generation X has been defined, since
most of it has reached adulthood already...

Also, he lists the "heros" of Generation X, and among them he lists
the Menendez brothers. Heroes??? I think not. I don't fully
understand what he is saying there.

There is a brief disertation on how one of his sons was acting
deceitfully one time, and how he got caught. He then says "remember
that, son??" and the whole audience laughed at the poor kid. "Real
nice" I thought.

He also quotes a conversation with his daughter, in which he pressures
her to run for student council president. Why does he encourage her
to run? Because if she wins, she will be able to *influence* other
people (WAV file of this to follow.) I always thought that the
purpose for public office was to best serve the needs of your
constituents (service) not to influence other people. No wonder
washington is sooooooo screwed up, if the parents of the current
congress etc gave advice like Kip does.

He also talk about his kids being in tennis, and the only reason is so
they can bring more people to Bible talk, (numbers & works, not fun
and fitness!) and win souls for Jesus.
It could be me....but I thought we plant the seed, and the Holy Spirit
is the one who does the winning. Am I wrong?

BTW, the title of this message is "Malachi: God's radical demand for
remaining radical" and I have heard MAYBE 4 minutes of Bible verses.

Kip later gets to the verses about tithes and offerings. He says "We
don't have that spirit, because we've made that a *LAW* in our
church." He says the law kills the spirit, but he's "not gonna lay
off on it." THis carries into sacrifice, which is to give more,
sacrificially from the heart. The "law" is still in effect.

Finally! A wav is behind this one!! TWICE Kip says "If a church is
not growing, it's SIN!"

Some guy gave over $100,000 to start the Moscow church, and Kip says
"God says `I like this guy.'" Since WHEN can we buy God's favor?
That is the implication here. "Give more, God will like you."

(as I listen, I think "this guy is raving" I can imagine the spittle
flying from the pulpit, and surely there is someone in the front row
"blessed" enough to catch it on the cheek....)

About the comments on overweight persons, my wife said she would tell
him where to put it and walk out on him. She just could NOT believe
that people would sit there and take that, and eat it up, at that.

Ahh here we have Kips "I believe I'm a prophet." Anyone heard
anything prophetic from him? I mean straight from God prophetic, or
is he just climbing to get higher on his pedestal?
He goes on to ask if the listeners believe they are prophets too, then
the qualifier for being a prophet is to preach the Word. I thought
that was a preacher....I guess Kip thinks that's being a prophet.

Jesus was "cranking" in Mat chap 18.....?

Jesus was a prophet, says Kip. I thought He was God's Son...

(we're getting a _little_ more Bible verses here....He reads them
about 100 MPH! He could read the WHOLE book of Malachi in less than 5
minutes....Makes me think of "Micro-Machines-Bible study")

He calls himself "God's preacher" in here...not "one of God's
preachers, but "God's preacher."

After the sermon, the people who didn't raise their hands are gonna
get to rebuke the poor suckers that did when Kip asked how many had
_not_ studied and baptized someone in so many months.

At the end, uproarious applaus, and rythmetic clapping for Kip, like a
giant, throbbing, pulsating riot, or dare I say....orgy. It reminds
me of the "golden calf" scene in "The Ten Commandments."

Thanks to all the folks in the "kingdom" who made this tape available.
Now I know what Kip is really like, where his focus lies, and the
purpose for everything he does. I can safely say that as long as
"God's preacher" is preaching works based malarky and insults, I will
never be a member of the "kingdom." I will remain a faithfull
Christian, and will continue to do my feeble best to manage my family
in a godly fashion, without the help of "true disciples."

Thanks also to the person (not in the kingdom) who sent me the tape!

Check out the wavs.

Scott W. Schreiber

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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This is Kip telling us all of the wonderfull thing the ICC is (at
least indirectly, but I think he believes directly) responsible for.

Fall of the Berlin wall, communism and apartheid....

Scott W. Schreiber

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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Here is Kip saying that you all belong to one church. Those of you
that say (and there have been some) "we follow Christ, not necessarily
what Kip says, just because he is the leader of LA" this kinda shows
that at least Kip thinks you are following him

Scott W. Schreiber

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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Scott W. Schreiber

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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begin 644 1church.wav
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end

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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On Tue, 6 Aug 1996, Scott W. Schreiber wrote:

Scott, thank you so much for posting this run-down of the sermon. Simply
terrifying, but I'm glad that it's been posted. Great work.

[snip]

> Ahh here we have Kips "I believe I'm a prophet." Anyone heard

[Snippage again]

>
> Jesus was a prophet, says Kip. I thought He was God's Son...
>

If Kip says the he is a prophet and the Jesus is a prophet, what does
this say about how Kip views himself? This is a rather scary point.
From just being a man, to being God's Man, to being a prophet, to
comparing himself to Paul and to Jesus, what's the next step?

--Ian

Gintas Jazbutis

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Aug 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/6/96

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Scott W. Schreiber wrote:

> About the comments on overweight persons, my wife said she would tell
> him where to put it and walk out on him. She just could NOT believe
> that people would sit there and take that, and eat it up, at that.
>

Maybe that's why they're overweight.

Gintas

--

Gintas Jazbutis
gin...@concentric.net

DJRTX

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Aug 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM8/13/96

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I too am unable to access the Wav. files Scott posted. (I am
not a Mac user) However, here are two transcribed segments
of Kip McKean's sermon in which he discusses prophets. One of
these segments should be the one which is on the Wav. file.

Joanne

Kip McKean, August 1994 Manila World Missions Leadership
Conference. Beginning of the sermon:

"Let's pray together. Our Father in Heaven, we come back here
this morning, Heavenly Father, moved and inspired by the way
that your Word was preached so powerfully by Mark (JR note: Templer)
and Gordon (JR note: Ferguson) yesterday. Father, we're so
inspired by the incredible hard work and organization of the
Shepherds and the Kim's. We're so touched by the incredible vision
of the Gempel's (JR note: Bob and Pat), Heavenly Father, to
actually make a difference of the poor of this city and this world,
Heavenly Father.

"Father, we're so inspired by the Metro Manila Church: the way
they have poured themselves out to serve us at every turn.

"Heavenly Father, we realize that this indeed is the place that
your angels and you are most focused at this hour. No other
meeting on the face of the earth can compare with the magnitude
and the importance of this hour.

"Heavenly Father, we pray that you'll shield us from all of Satan's
darts and arrows and all of his demons, Heavenly Father, that
can get into our mind, and our heart, and stop us from hearing your
word to change our lives, and become the radical prophets and
prophetesses that we need to be in order to win this world in
one generation."

<snip>

(Note: Later On In The Sermon:)

See, a lot of us, we don't understand Biblical preaching. We
want to have all the laughs. We want to be inspirational. We've
become so inspirational we've not learned how to inspire people.

Let me tell you something, what is true Biblical preaching? Biblical
preaching is disturbing the comfortable and comforting the disturbed.
But we've been comforting the disturbed for so long, we've forgotten
how to disturb the comfortable.

I'll tell you something. I don't believe that we have prophets that
write scriptures anymore, but I believe that every generation needs
prophets. I don't even want to qualify it.

See, we've gotten so Church of Christ. We don't want to say
"Well, there are prophets today." Might as well break in another
tradition. I believe there are prophets today. I'll be extra bold.
I believe I am a prophet today.

Now my question for you is do you believe that you're a prophet?
Do you believe that you're a God-sent prophet, who has been
sent as his messenger, to preach His Word, to His people,
to make a difference in this generation?

You know, our view of Jesus is so distorted. When Jesus was
asking the guys, "Well, who do people say that I am?" Matthew 16.
The guys said, "Well, some people say that you remind them of
Elijah. Some people even say you're Elijah come back from the
dead."

Now was Elijah a hard line guy or not? I mean he took out those
450 prophets of Baal, and then some, amen? Talk about a kick
butt guy. And everybody goes, "You remind me a bit of Elijah."
And not chapter 19, where he's hiding, it was chapter 18, where
he was cranking right there.

"Well the other guy you remind me of, maybe you're Jeremiah
come back from the dead." Maybe the most hard line guy of them
all. "Or another guy who just died recently, you remind me of him,
is John the Baptist. These are the three guys, Jesus, people, you
remind people of."

See, Jesus was a prophet. He laid it out. I am afraid that we have
failed to understand the preacher and his preaching is the feeling
of spirituality of a congregation. We've treated the Bible as
something that we want to tell stories, and make love songs, and
entertain the people after. We've been watching the TV. We want to
be loved too much.

What is the Bible? What is the BIBLE ? (JR note: he spells it out)
It's basically this: basic instructions before leaving earth. That's
serious stuff.

You've got to talk about life and you've got to talk about death.
You've got to talk about heaven and you've got to talk about Hell.
Let me tell you something: when you start talking about heaven
and Hell, and where souls are going to spend eternity, it's going
to shake up, but it's going to inspire the good-hearted in your
congregation.

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Sep 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/10/96

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In article <4u6fc8$9...@madrid.visi.net> sco...@nhr.com (Scott W. Schreiber)
had the following to say:

>Thanks to all the folks in the "kingdom" who made this tape available.
>Now I know what Kip is really like, where his focus lies, and the
>purpose for everything he does. I can safely say that as long as
>"God's preacher" is preaching works based malarky and insults, I will
>never be a member of the "kingdom." I will remain a faithfull
>Christian, and will continue to do my feeble best to manage my family
>in a godly fashion, without the help of "true disciples."

You know, until I actually heard Kip speak (I have the tape of him speaking to
the congregation in Indianapolis after the Ed Powers situation), I never
really understood what a master manipulator (and liar) Kip is.

The first thing that *shocked me* was when Al Baird came up in front of the
congregation and told them a *bald-faced lie*. He was reading a letter that
was being sent to all of the ICC congregations. He read that "Ed Powers asked
for and received a unanimous vote to leave the International Churches of
Christ" (or something very similar to that). In fact, *nothing* could be
further from the truth. First of all, Ed did not received a "unanimous vote"
(it was a majority). Second, Ed stressed *repeatedly* that he did not want to
leave the International Churches of Christ. I could not *believe* that Al had
the testicular fortitude required to read this to the congregation.

Next, I noticed how manipulative Kip was in the opening of his speach. He
prayed "Lord, let me say this as if Jesus himself was saying it." Now, either
God answered that part of Kip's prayer that night or he didn't. I'm guessing
that God did *not* answer that prayer (Jesus didn't lie or manipulate
scriptures), but I wonder how many people in that audience believed that it
*was* answered. After all, why *wouldn't* God answer a prayer like
that...especially when Kip was praying it!

Third, Kip gave this convoluted argument that ended with the conclusion that
"If you disagree with me, you disagree with God." I'm pretty sure no one in
that audience wanted to disagree with God...

Fourth, Kip's whole argument centers around trying to compare Ed Powers's
action with those of Korah (I'm sure I spelled that wrong <g>) in Numbers. The
comparison seems valid on the surface, but is completely falacious unless you
*equate* Moses's leadership ofIsrael (and how Moses got into that position)
with Kip's leadership of the ICC (and how *he* got into that position). In
fact, his argument is so bad, that Kip takes 2.5 hours to make it, just so
that it *begins* to sound reasonable!!

All in all, it was a very eye-opening tape. In fact, it was instrumental in my
making the decision to leave the ICC. I was "lukewarm" about it until that
point. Listening to that tape really solidified in my mind that I did *not*
want Kip as a leader; and since he is the "leader's leader" in the ICC, there
was no way to get away from Kip without leaving the movement entirely.

Love in Christ,
Bryan