Mary is not needed to pray for you
antiaging
interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
If the Roman Catholic church really followed the New Testament, then
they would not teach that Mary is interceeding for people. The Bible
does not say that Mary is interceeding for people. The New Testament
says this:
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we
know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the
mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
according to the will of God.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea
rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who
also maketh intercession for us.
Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better
testament.
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not
suffered to continue by reason of death:
Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
unchangeable priesthood.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost
that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession
for them.
The New Testament, the Word of God, clearly says that Jesus Christ
Himself and the Holy Spirit are making intercession for the people of
God.
Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
pray for anybody.
The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely about Mary.
jsm
> The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
The Catholic Church does not teach that.
Where do you get your information? Please ask
a qualified person or persons, as a matter of
fact, I challange you to attend Catholic Mass.
See for yourself what the Mass is. The Mass is
beautiful, spiritual, and with God.
> If the Roman Catholic church really followed the New Testament, then
> they would not teach that Mary is interceeding for people.
My own (biological) mother prays for me,
why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
> The Bible
> does not say that Mary is interceeding for people. The New Testament
> says this:
>
> Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we
> know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
> maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
> Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the
> mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
> according to the will of God.
Yes of course it is the will of God, who said
asking the Blessed Virgin Mary was anything else?
> Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea
> rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who
> also maketh intercession for us.
>
> Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better
> testament.
> Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not
> suffered to continue by reason of death:
> Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
> unchangeable priesthood.
> Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost
> that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession
> for them.
>
> The New Testament, the Word of God, clearly says that Jesus Christ
> Himself and the Holy Spirit are making intercession for the people of
> God.
> Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
> pray for anybody.
Do you ever pray for anyone? If so, why
do you pray for them? Have you asked anyone
to pray for you?
> The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely about Mary.
What is false? She is the mother of Lord Jesus
Christ.
jsm
> interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
We ask her to pray for us, as we ask for prayers
from one another. Do you ask anyone to pray for you,
or have you ever prayed for someone? We are a family
and we pray for each other.
Gary Schooley
jsm wrote:
Why are Catholics afraid to pray to the Father in the name of the Son as Jesus taught?
GS
peter terry
"jsm" <jsm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b971a682.02060...@posting.google.com...
????????
"antiaging" <anti...@email-lotto.com> wrote in message
news:109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com...
O my dearest little daughter and son, the World Wide Message for all my
faithful children of the world. . . .
O my dearest little children of the world, through the Divine Light of the
Sacred Heart of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will you be led along the
way to our Heavenly Father. The days of your sufferings are now numbered. In
my Immaculate Heart I am preparing all my faithful children for a rebirth.
Soon. . . . our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will manifest Himself in such a
way for all of humanity to witness. Do not be frightened, my dearest little
ones, of the darkness that spreads more and more and more in the world
today. Pray, pray, pray, my beloved ones, to console our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ in these End Times. In these final hours allow your faith to be
strengthened by the Divine Truth. Open up your hearts and souls and receive
the Divine Love from our Heavenly Father. Do not allow yourselves to be
disturbed by the evilness and sin in the world today from my adversary. The
hour of Justice and Mercy has now arrived for the entire world. At the hour
of the great trial, Divine Love, Divine Peace and Divine Mercy shall shower
down from Heaven upon the earth, preparing the way for the Glorious Return
of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in fulfilling the Divine Will of our
Heavenly Father. In these final hours of sufferings, you shall be purified
through the Divine Mercy of my Son. Live each day in complete Faith, Trust
and Obedience in following the Commandments of our Heavenly Father. In my
Immaculate Heart will my children find peace in the hours of chastisement. I
am the Morning Star leading all of my faithful children along the road of
Eternal Life. I love you, my dearest little children. I love you, my dearest
little children. I will always love you, my dearest little children. I am
your Heavenly Mother calling all of my children along the road of prayer and
penance in order to receive Divine Healings and Divine Salvation.
Saudade
clearly that the future generations will call her "happy" and that her acts
will be remembered. At Cana, she told Jesus to help the bridegroom family
when they got out of wine. Although Jesus insisted that it was not his
time, he ended obeying his mother.
If that is no intercession, I don't know what it is.
But is intercession. Sorry for you.
Saudade
"antiaging" <anti...@email-lotto.com> wrote in message
news:109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com...
jsm
Repost, corrected spelling in subject line.
Don
What part of MARY IS DEAD do you not understand?
D*
Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.
- Lilliam Hellman
Damien Harrison
"Don" <calldo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qdsmfu09uadkr56im...@4ax.com...
> On 2 Jun 2002 23:49:12 -0700, jsm...@yahoo.com (jsm) wrote:
>
> >anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message
news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
> >> The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> >> interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
> >
> > We ask her to pray for us, as we ask for prayers
> >from one another. Do you ask anyone to pray for you,
> >or have you ever prayed for someone? We are a family
> >and we pray for each other.
>
> What part of MARY IS DEAD do you not understand?
I believe the Catholics would say,"What part of MARY IS ALIVE do you not
understand?" They believe none of the "saints" are dead, and they refer to
John 11:25. The difference is a matter of interpretation.
Harro.
V.O.
"Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
news:adfsnq$ubi$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
Shall live
Is alive
There is no correlation. There is no "interpretation"
There is no single verse in the bible which stands on its own.
Paul says "asleep in Christ"
Resurrection is another thing.
Stephen Quist
:: The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
:: interceeding for people.
You have not proven the teaching is false.
:: Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
Agreed.
[]
:: Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
:: pray for anybody.
I agree. Her prayers are not *needed*. But they sure are nice to have.
As James says in Chapter 5 of his letter:
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another,
that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very
powerful.
Who is more righteous than Mary?
Steve
Stephen Quist
:: On 2 Jun 2002 23:49:12 -0700, jsm...@yahoo.com (jsm) wrote:
::
::: anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message
::: news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
:::: The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
:::: interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
:::
::: We ask her to pray for us, as we ask for prayers
::: from one another. Do you ask anyone to pray for you,
::: or have you ever prayed for someone? We are a family
::: and we pray for each other.
::
:: What part of MARY IS DEAD do you not understand?
John 19:
26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said
to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son."
27 Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour
the disciple took her into his home.
Are you a disciple whom Jesus loves?
Steve
bfm
> Why are Catholics afraid to pray to the Father in the name of the Son as >Jesus taught?
We DO pray to the Father in the name of the Son. We also are firm
believers in the Communion of Saints and Intercessory prayer of not
only those living but those gone on before.
When do you intend to stop lying about the Church?
JimoftheDesert
Um, that *is* the Church's teaching, genius. Asking for Mary's intercession
may be effectual and praiseworthy, but it is not, absolutely speaking,
necessary.
Stephen Korsman
We are not. We do. My worry is that Protestants are scared to pray for
each other ... if it is unscriptural for Mary to pray for us, then it must
be unscriptural for us to pray for each other. And that would be very sad
indeed.
God bless,
Stephen
--
--
Stephen Korsman
skor...@global.co.za
skor...@theotokos.co.za
www.theotokos.co.za
www.theotokos.co.za/adventism
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
V.O.
"JimoftheDesert" <card...@helpmejebus.com> wrote in message
news:yYOK8.18628$DU.587...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
It is also
Ineffectual
Useless
Heretical
Non-Christian
Terry
"Saudade" <sau...@ahora.net> wrote in message
news:%bIK8.10888$rX.18...@e420r-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> In the Gospel of Luke, when Mary visits her cousing Elizabeth, says very
> clearly that the future generations will call her "happy" and that her
acts
> will be remembered. At Cana, she told Jesus to help the bridegroom family
> when they got out of wine. Although Jesus insisted that it was not his
> time, he ended obeying his mother.
> If that is no intercession, I don't know what it is.
> But is intercession. Sorry for you.
>
> Saudade
Yes but at that time Mary was alive.
And nobody had prayed to her, she just wanted
the wedding feast to go well.
Terry
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "jsm" <jsm...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.
religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.c
hristian
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: Mary is not needed to pray for you
> anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message
news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
> > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> > interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
>
> The Catholic Church does not teach that.
> Where do you get your information? Please ask
> a qualified person or persons, as a matter of
> fact, I challange you to attend Catholic Mass.
> See for yourself what the Mass is. The Mass is
> beautiful, spiritual, and with God.
>
>
> > If the Roman Catholic church really followed the New Testament, then
> > they would not teach that Mary is interceeding for people.
>
> My own (biological) mother prays for me,
> why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
Your biological mother is alive.
>
> > The Bible
> > does not say that Mary is interceeding for people. The New Testament
> > says this:
> >
> > Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we
> > know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
> > maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
> > Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the
> > mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
> > according to the will of God.
>
> Yes of course it is the will of God, who said
> asking the Blessed Virgin Mary was anything else?
It sounded to me like that scripture was talking about the
Holy Spirit.
>
>
> > Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea
> > rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who
> > also maketh intercession for us.
> >
> > Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better
> > testament.
> > Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not
> > suffered to continue by reason of death:
> > Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
> > unchangeable priesthood.
> > Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost
> > that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession
> > for them.
> >
> > The New Testament, the Word of God, clearly says that Jesus Christ
> > Himself and the Holy Spirit are making intercession for the people of
> > God.
> > Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
> > pray for anybody.
>
> Do you ever pray for anyone?
Yes but I am alive.
>If so, why
> do you pray for them? Have you asked anyone
> to pray for you?
Yes, saints that are alive.
>
> > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely about Mary.
>
> What is false? She is the mother of Lord Jesus
> Christ.
Yes of course and she deserves our deepest respect.
But she can't help you with your prayers?
Terry
Terry
"bfm" <b...@justcatholic.org> wrote in message
news:e202c322.02060...@posting.google.com...
> Gary Schooley <scho...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:<3CFB1F0D...@texas.net>...
>
> > Why are Catholics afraid to pray to the Father in the name of the Son as
>Jesus taught?
>
> We DO pray to the Father in the name of the Son. We also are firm
> believers in the Communion of Saints and Intercessory prayer of not
> only those living but those gone on before.
Do you want to see a communion of saints?
Just walk into a protestant church during worship service.
Intercessory prayer is fine but the dead can't pray for you.
A prayer for the dead is a prayer spoken too late.
Terry
Terry
"Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
news:adfsnq$ubi$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
>
you can have if you ask him for it.
I have known several saints who have died, I saw them buried.
It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
now and they can't pray for me.
Terry
Terry
"????????" <????????@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KcGK8.215657$o66.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Terry
"Stephen Quist" <qui...@spamfree.msei-co.com> wrote in message
news:EMLK8.593$5P6....@news.uswest.net...
Terry
"????????" <????????@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KcGK8.215657$o66.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
skii
> interceeding for people.
Correct! There is no proof that any human that passed on has the power to
intercede
except for Jesus.
As they ask why you say we worship mary!
JCarew
"Terry" wrote in message
>"bfm" wrote in message
>>Gary Schooley wrote in message
>>>Why are Catholics afraid to pray to the Father in
>>>the name of the Son as Jesus taught?
>>We DO pray to the Father in the name of the Son.
>>We also are firm believers in the Communion of
>>Saints and Intercessory prayer of not
>>only those living but those gone on before.
>Do you want to see a communion of saints?
>Just walk into a protestant church during
>worship service.
>
>Intercessory prayer is fine but the dead
>can't pray for you. A prayer for the dead
>is a prayer spoken too late.
Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
even in this day and age ever hear of the term
"Kaddish"
The Jewish Kaddish:
Kaddish is a prayer for one's departed which is recited
daily during the first year after a person's passing.
It has the ability to lift the soul out of Gehinnon and
bring it to Gan Eden (the Garden of Eden, not to be
confused with the Garden of Eden in Genesis).
On the day of the Yahrzeit, the Kaddish can cause the soul
to rise to higher levels in Gan Eden itself. When a person
leads the prayer in the synagogue on the Yahrzeit, it can
elevate the soul even more than the Kaddish.
The Yahrzeit is a time of judgment for the deceased.
Therefore, charity or any good deeds which are done
on behalf of the departed can help him or her pass
judgment and even be elevated. Some people have the
custom to fast on the Yahrzeit. This brings atonement
to his or her parents.
See:
http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/terms.html#kaddish
for definition of Kaddish and related items
Jim Carew sfo
Robert A. Walker
Why is Gary Schooley such a complete idiot and bigot?
Robert A. Walker
> Mary worship is a pagan cult.....end of story dude.
And your comments are too vacuous to require comment.
Robert A. Walker
There has been a real genius convention around here lately, hasn't
there? Peter Terry, Gary Schooly, Jim of the Desert. What fun.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"Terry" <ter...@northstate.net> wrote in message
news:ufnngm7...@corp.supernews.com...
> I have known several saints who have died, I saw them buried.
> It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
> now and they can't pray for me.
That's why we know you are outside of the historic Christian faith, Terry -
those WITHIN historic Christianity believe people become alive in Christ.
Clearly you don't share that historic Christian belief......
antiaging
> > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
>
> The Catholic Church does not teach that.
> Where do you get your information? Please ask
> a qualified person or persons, as a matter of
> fact, I challange you to attend Catholic Mass.
> See for yourself what the Mass is. The Mass is
> beautiful, spiritual, and with God.
The catholic church does teach that. This is from the 1994 catechism
of the catholic church:
"Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the
titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Pg. 252,
#969
The function of both a mediator and an advocate is to intercede on
behalf of others. Catholic tradition assigns this position to Mary,
Catholic error about Mary that contradicts the New Testament:
Mary: The Intercessor
Many faithful Catholics fervently pray to the virgin Mary, believing
that she is the mediator who intercedes on their behalf before the
Father:
"Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the
titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Pg. 252,
#969
Here, four specific titles are attributed to Mary. Does she fulfill
them? Let' s look at each one:
Advocate
The belief that Mary is an advocate before the Father is yet another
man-made tradition, not supported by Scripture. Moreover, the Bible
defies Catholic doctrine by declaring that Jesus, not Mary, is the
only Advocate:
"...if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ
the righteous:" 1 John 2:1
Helper
Once again, the Bible disagrees with Catholicism by declaring that
Jesus, not Mary, is the only supernatural Helper:
"Behold, God is mine helper..." Psalm 54:4
"So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear
what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:6
"Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth
him out of them all." Psalm 34:19
Never in the Word of God is Mary mentioned as being a supernatural
helper.
Benefactress
Here is another tradition of men. The Bible calls no one, including
Mary, a "benefactress."
Mediatrix
The Bible never elevates Mary to the position of mediatrix, but it
does ordain Jesus as the one and only mediator:
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5
"And for this cause he (Christ) is the mediator of the new
testament..." Hebrews 9:15
Intercessor
The function of both a mediator and an advocate is to intercede on
behalf of others. Catholic tradition assigns this position to Mary,
whereas God's Word exalts the Lord Jesus Christ as the intercessor,
and also shows that the Holy Spirit is an intercessor for the people
of God.
"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands... but
into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:"
Hebrews 9:24
"Wherefore he (Jesus) is able also to save them to the uttermost that
come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for
them." Hebrews 7:25
Scripture could not be any plainer about the identity of the true
intercessor:
"... It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is
even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."
Romans 8:34
"... he (Jesus) maketh intercession for the saints according to the
will of God." Romans 8:27
The Bible reveals that anyone who reaches the Father must go through
Jesus Christ:
"For through him (Jesus) we both have access by one Spirit unto the
Father." Ephesians 2:18
"According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus
our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access..." Ephesians 3:11-12
Mary is never mentioned as an intercessor.
Jesus is degraded again
The Bible is quite definite. Jesus is the only Advocate, Helper,
Mediator and Intercessor before the Father. Yet, Catholic tradition
strips these four titles away from Him and drops them in Mary's lap
instead. Why?
Why is Jesus degraded at every turn? Why is Catholicism determined to
take from Jesus everything the Bible attributes to Him and give it to
someone or something else?
If Mary is so exalted, why did Bible characters like the Apostle Paul
utter words like:
"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ,
and him crucified." 1 Corinthians 2:2
Conclusion
Now you know the positions of both the Bible and Catholic tradition.
Will you reject the Word of God and give glory to Mary? Or will you
reject the traditions of men and give glory to Jesus Christ?
The New Testament teachings lead to heaven. Traditions of men, that
contradict the New Testament, could lead to hell.
"But now hath he (Jesus) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how
much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was
established upon better promises." Hebrews 8:6
Reference: Understanding Roman Catholicism by Rick Jones found at this
website:
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/160/160_19.asp
>
>
> > If the Roman Catholic church really followed the New Testament, then
> > they would not teach that Mary is interceeding for people.
>
> My own (biological) mother prays for me,
> why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
>
> > The Bible
> > does not say that Mary is interceeding for people. The New Testament
> > says this:
> >
> > Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we
> > know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
> > maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
> > Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the
> > mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
> > according to the will of God.
>
> Yes of course it is the will of God, who said
> asking the Blessed Virgin Mary was anything else?
>
>
> > Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea
> > rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who
> > also maketh intercession for us.
> >
> > Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better
> > testament.
> > Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not
> > suffered to continue by reason of death:
> > Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
> > unchangeable priesthood.
> > Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost
> > that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession
> > for them.
> >
> > The New Testament, the Word of God, clearly says that Jesus Christ
> > Himself and the Holy Spirit are making intercession for the people of
> > God.
> > Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
> > pray for anybody.
>
> Do you ever pray for anyone? If so, why
> do you pray for them? Have you asked anyone
> to pray for you?
>
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
<Dr.G...@son.net> wrote in message
news:79snfu46ljrrkm1f9nan0ondbmajf5n5fq@watsnet...
> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
ATTENTION ALL PROTESTANT SECT MEMBERS!
Now that you've been so informed by "Doctor Watson", be sure to close down
all prayer groups, prayer circles, prayer chains, and any other sort of
ongoing operations in your protestant sect "churches" wherein one person
prays on behalf of another, lest you be guilty of becoming an "intercessor"
like Mary, the dreaded Mother of God!
REMEMBER NOW: No more interceding in prayer on behalf of the sick, the
hurting, the needy! So hath proclaimed "Doctor Watson"!!!
Stephen Korsman
"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
<Dr.G...@son.net> wrote in message
news:79snfu46ljrrkm1f9nan0ondbmajf5n5fq@watsnet...
> spake these words as Gospel truth on Usenet newsgroups:
>
> >The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> >interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
>
> And again, AMEN.
>
> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
Nope, we all intercede for each other. The Bible never labels Christ as the
ONLY intercessor.
> It is such a shame that the people in the RCc are being misled
> cpncerning her, because all it has done is confuse a lot of people,
> and some people literally hate Mary for the RCc's false teaching, when
> it's not Mary's fault.
Are you sure? She did say that ALL generations would call her blessed.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> Mary does NOR\T intercede for anyone. SHE IS DEAD.
Sorry Doc, but we Christians believe that followers of Christ are ALIVE in
Christ, not "DEAD".
Obviously you are outside of the historic Christian faith. That is your
choice, and we will defend your right to place yourself outside of the
historic Christian faith if you wish, Doc.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> Catholics always say I'm 'hateful and
> bashing thrm' when I remind 'em of this------------ I'm NOT hateful,
> but I guess to THEM, I'm bashing because I disagree.
Well, I haven't seen any Catholics say that to you Doc, but if they ever
start saying that to you I think they should stop.
They should merely and simply point out that you are obviously outside of
the historic faith beliefs of Christianity, that you are entitled to place
yourself in that position outside of Christianity if you wish, and just
leave it at that.
Aren't you the guy who claimed earlier that Mary (the Mother of God) is
"dead"? See what I mean about you being outside of the historic Christian
faith, Doc? REAL Christians believe that followers of Christ are ALIVE in
Christ, not "dead" as you seem to believe. Which is our big, fat clue that
you are clearly outside of Christianity, Doc.
Terry
"30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!" <rain...@att.net> wrote in message
news:o7SK8.21781$UT.14...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Dead to sin and alive in christ, Yes thats true and I can't argue against
it.
But the scriptures indicate that there is a death.
The term "Alive in Christ" must surely mean that the death is not permanent.
Here is why I believe that this is the case.
Check out 1Thes 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of {the} archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will
rise first.
Correct me if you think I am wrong. "The dead in Christ" means
followers of Christ who have died.
Check out Heb 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this {comes}
judgment,
Then check out John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in
Me will live even if he dies,
In order for there to be resurrection there first must be a death.
Check out Rev 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were
completed. This is the first resurrection.
This leads me to believe that the resurrection will not occur untill
the end of Christ's 1000 year reign on the earth and untill then the dead
are dead.
This thread has been one of the most fun we have had in a while.
Terry
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
>
> "30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!" <rain...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:o7SK8.21781$UT.14...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Terry" <ter...@northstate.net> wrote in message
> > news:ufnngm7...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I have known several saints who have died, I saw them buried.
> > > It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
> > > now and they can't pray for me.
> >
> >
> > That's why we know you are outside of the historic Christian faith,
> Terry -
> > those WITHIN historic Christianity believe people become alive in
Christ.
> > Clearly you don't share that historic Christian belief......
> >
>
> Dead to sin and alive in christ, Yes thats true and I can't argue against
> it.
Good, it's nice to hear you back off a bit and backpeddle from your earlier
intemperate remarks, Terry. Now that you have admitted you were wrong to
have claimed that about the Virgin Mary, you can stop claiming Mary, the
Mother of God, is "dead".
It makes you sound stupid, Terry. Either that, or it makes you sound like
someone totally outside of the historic Christian faith.
We are all trying to judge you fairly, but when you make dumb claims like
you had earlier about Mary, you leave us no options.
Terry
>
> "Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
Hey 3000 what do you mean by "historic Christian faith" ?
Is it catholic tradition that you are reffering to?
Actual "historic Christian faith" would be the faith described
the New Testament wouldn't it? After all the churches described
in the letters of Paul did come first. So....are we really outside
of "historic Christian faith"?
Interceding in prayer is great but it only works if you pray to the Lord.
Terry
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> Interceding in prayer is great but it only works if you pray to the Lord.
Yes, good point, Terry!
Which is PRECISELY what Mary and all the Saints do when they intercede to
the Lord on our behalf.
Good, you're learning.......
Terry
3000 didn't you the scriptures. Everybody dies Mary included.
If you suggested some scriptures for me to read, I would do it
and comment on it.
You had to see what the scriptures said, they were right in front
of you. Everybody dies. Show me a scripture that says Mary is
alive and I will show you two that say otherwise.
When ressurection day comes we will get to meet her and it
will be cool. (That is if you are saved. Are you?)
But untill then the dead in Christ are "dead in Christ".
If you want to prove a protestant wrong you must do it with
scripture. Catholic tradition doesn't mean anything to us.
Terry
JY Kelly
>
> "Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
How many gods do you need to pray to? Isn't one good enough to do the job?
JY Kelly
gga...@cfl.rr.com
1. The word intercessor only appears one time in the Bible and that
is in the Old Testament. Isa. 59:16, "and he saw that there was
no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor....It does not
appear in the New Testament.
2. The word in Hebrew is paga (paw-gah'), which can mean, to meet,
reach, intreat, make intercession and etc.
3. A word of similar meaning would be Mediator: one who intervenes
between two persons who are at varience with a view to reconcile.
It'snot found in the Old Testament but is used in the New Testament to
denote simply an ambassador. In this sense Moses is called a mediator
in Gal. 3:19. In aThesaurus mediator is defined as a "go-between."the
word in Greek is mesites(mes-ee'-tace) or one who intervenes.
4. 1 Tim. 2:5 clearly states, "For there is one God, and one Mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
It really doesn't matter what Bible, what version or whatever you wish
to read, Eph. 2:8,9 puts it pretty clearly. "For by Grace are you
saved through faith and that not of yourselves, not of Works, lest any
man should boast." I have had my fill of spiritual boasters here on
earth and am glad to know I won't have to worry about running into any
when I get to heaven.
Gator
On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:55:03 +0200, "Stephen Korsman"
<skor...@theotokos.co.za> wrote:
>
>"Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> 3000 didn't you the scriptures.
Sorry Terry, but that's not even a coherent sentence.
Please write again when you're sober, OK?
I don't mean to exclude even the drunks and the mentally incoherent
protestant sect disciples from entering into this discussion. I merely ask
that you sober up first, and begin to post English Language-coherent posts,
that's all........
JY Kelly
If you pray long and hard enough to anyone or anything, something good will
eventually happen. It works for me.
JY Kelly
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"JY Kelly" <Osamabi...@church.com> wrote in message
news:ufo7nnk...@corp.supernews.com...
> If you pray long and hard enough to anyone or anything, something good
will
> eventually happen. It works for me.
That's doubtful, Kelly.
Terry
Did you read the scriptures that I suggested?
If so what did you think?
Your formerly drunken protestant buddy
Terry
JY Kelly
Right over your head.
Damien Harrison
> Don wrote:
> :: On 2 Jun 2002 23:49:12 -0700, jsm...@yahoo.com (jsm) wrote:
> ::
> ::: anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message
> ::: news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
> :::: The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> :::: interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
> ::: We ask her to pray for us, as we ask for prayers
> ::: from one another. Do you ask anyone to pray for you,
> ::: or have you ever prayed for someone? We are a family
> ::: and we pray for each other.
> :: What part of MARY IS DEAD do you not understand?
> ::
> John 19:
>
> 26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said
> to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son."
> 27 Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour
> the disciple took her into his home.
>
> Are you a disciple whom Jesus loves?
The Apostle John does not frequent these newsgroups. So none of us are that
disciple.
Harro.
Damien Harrison
>
> "Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
> news:adfsnq$ubi$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
> >
> >
> > > What part of MARY IS DEAD do you not understand?
> >
> > understand?" They believe none of the "saints" are dead, and they refer
> to
> > John 11:25. The difference is a matter of interpretation.
> >
> >
> John 11:25 sounds to me like Jesus was reffering to the eternal life that
> you can have if you ask him for it.
> I have known several saints who have died, I saw them buried.
> It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
> now and they can't pray for me.
Agreed. They have earned a rest from their ministry.
Harro.
Damien Harrison
"JCarew" <oth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:swRK8.1526$Wh.53...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> JMJ
>
> Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
> even in this day and age ever hear of the term
> "Kaddish"
>
> The Jewish Kaddish:
So?. Any basis in Scripture?
Harro.
Damien Harrison
> "Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
> news:8gsnfu80ughfdeiou7het3p690odp2pecm@watsnet...
> > Mary does NOR\T intercede for anyone. SHE IS DEAD.
>
>
> Sorry Doc, but we Christians believe that followers of Christ are ALIVE in
> Christ, not "DEAD".
I guess we just believe that you should look at Scripture as a whole, rather
than take out one verse to back up your claims. In a sense, all Christians
remain alive in Christ. But this one Scripture needs to be taken in context
with the myriad of others that show that a person dies a mortal death.
Harro.
Damien Harrison
Snipping & ignoring Terry's main points AND deliberately taking him out of
context makes you look like a troll.
Harro.
peter terry
"Robert A. Walker" <rwa...@nycc.edu> wrote in message
news:8d9ab0cb.02060...@posting.google.com...
> Gary Schooley <scho...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:<3CFB1F0D...@texas.net>...
> > jsm wrote:
> >
> > > anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message
news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
> > > > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> > > > interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
> > >
> > > We ask her to pray for us, as we ask for prayers
> > > from one another. Do you ask anyone to pray for you,
> > > or have you ever prayed for someone? We are a family
> > > and we pray for each other.
> >
Jesus taught?
> >
> > GS
>
>
> Why is Gary Schooley such a complete idiot and bigot?
Gee you have a special way with words fella.....so full of meaning and
vision...
^reaches out for bucket.^
JCarew
"Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
>
>"JCarew" <oth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
>>even in this day and age ever hear of the term
>>"Kaddish"
>>The Jewish Kaddish:
>So?. Any basis in Scripture?
Yes according to Jewish scripture as interrupted by
the Jewish Rabbis
See http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/kaddish.html
Jim Carew sfo
dennis
You posted:
> anti...@email-lotto.com (antiaging) wrote in message news:<109e20c8.0206...@posting.google.com>...
> > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
> > interceeding for people. Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
>
> The Catholic Church does not teach that.
> Where do you get your information?
I quote: "Hail Mary full of grace, blessed art thou amongst women.
Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, PRAY FOR US
SINNERS now and at the hour of our death, amen."
IS THAT _NOT_ what you pray with GREAT regularity amongst yourselves?
And WHO are you praying to? Mary. And WHAT FOR? For her to PRAY FOR
YOU.
DOESN'T the catholic church teach that? OF COURSE IT DOES!
> > If the Roman Catholic church really followed the New Testament, then
> > they would not teach that Mary is interceeding for people.
>
> My own (biological) mother prays for me,
> why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
Because she is DEAD. She is NOT an intercessor for anyone, she is
DEAD.
NOBODY WHO IS DEAD PRAYS FOR ANYONE. Not according to the Bible.
>
> > The Bible
> > does not say that Mary is interceeding for people. The New Testament
> > says this:
> >
> > Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we
> > know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself
> > maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
The Holy Spirit is GOD, and HE is NOT DEAD.
> > Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the
> > mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints
> > according to the will of God.
And WHO _IS_HE_??? JESUS of course. NOT dead Mary.
>
> Yes of course it is the will of God, who said
> asking the Blessed Virgin Mary was anything else?
Since the Bible NEVER SAYS IT IS THE WILL OF GOD for DEAD PEOPLE to
pray for LIVE PEOPLE, it is a MANMADE Doctrine, a lie.
>
>
> > Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea
> > rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who
> > also maketh intercession for us.
WHO? JESUS. NOT dead mary.
> >
> > Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better
> > testament.
> > Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not
> > suffered to continue by reason of death:
> > Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an
> > unchangeable priesthood.
> > Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost
> > that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession
> > for them.
> >
> > The New Testament, the Word of God, clearly says that Jesus Christ
> > Himself and the Holy Spirit are making intercession for the people of
> > God.
And THEY ARE _GOD_, not just dead people.
> > Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
> > pray for anybody.
>
> Do you ever pray for anyone? If so, why
> do you pray for them? Have you asked anyone
> to pray for you?
I'm not dead. Nobody I have ever asked to pray for me was dead when I
asked it of them.
The Bible NEVER tells us to ask dead people to pray for us.
Only manmade religion does that.
>
> > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely about Mary.
>
> What is false? She is the mother of Lord Jesus
> Christ.
The Bible NEVER calls her the mother of God. She is the PHYSICAL
mother of Jesus, but NOT THE SPIRITUAL MOTHER of Jesus. HE existed
LONG BEFORE SHE WAS BORN. (see John 1:1, 14)
Of course, you catholics hardly know your Bible at all.
in Christ Jesus,
dennis
Damien Harrison
Wasn't much Scripture quoted. Nothing that seemed to give rise to the
Kaddish. What "Jewish Scripture" are you talking about?
Harro.
antiaging
> "Terry" <ter...@northstate.net> wrote in message
> news:ufnngm7...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I have known several saints who have died, I saw them buried.
> > It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
> > now and they can't pray for me.
>
>
> That's why we know you are outside of the historic Christian faith, Terry -
> those WITHIN historic Christianity believe people become alive in Christ.
> Clearly you don't share that historic Christian belief......
Define what you mean by historic Christian faith. True Christianity is
based on the New Testament teachings of Jesus and His followers the
apostles. Any church that has strayed from following the New Testament
teachings has ceased to be a real Christian church. What do you mean
by historic Christian faith? If you mean Roman Catholicism, then you
are mistaken.
Roman catholicism has much pagan teachings that came from the old
pagan Roman religion, mixed in with Christianity; it is all mixed
together. Allow a catholic cardinal himself to tell you this:
Cardinal Newman admits in his book that; the "temples,
incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, Holidays, and
seasons of devotion, processions, blessings of the fields,
sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests, munks and nuns),
images, and statues... are all of PAGAN ORIGIN." The Development of
the Christian Religion Cardinal Newman p.359
Real Christianity is based on the New Testament without all of these
pagan teachings that come from the ancient pagan Roman religion, that
Roman catholicism has mixed in it. (The orthodox churches also have
much of the same pagan teachings.)
JCarew
"Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message:
>
> "JCarew" <oth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>>>>Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
>>>>even in this day and age ever hear of the term
>>>>"Kaddish"
>>>>The Jewish Kaddish:
>>>So?. Any basis in Scripture?
>>Yes according to Jewish scripture as interrupted by
>>the Jewish Rabbis
>> See http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/kaddish.html
>Wasn't much Scripture quoted. Nothing that seemed
>to give rise to the Kaddish.
So?
>What "Jewish Scripture" are you talking about?
I never referenced any scripture, but the Rabbis
reference Deuteronomy. They should know so
I'll take there word for it.
Jim Carew sfo
Bari Stepanovich
> I have had my fill of spiritual boasters here on
>earth and am glad to know I won't have to worry about running into any
>when I get to heaven.
>
>Gator
CHRIST IS RISEN!
Something you might want to keep in mind, Gator:
Automatically assuming that Heaven is your final destination is the
very thing that will guarantee that you will NEVER see it.
You denounce "spiritual boasters" in one breath and then become one
with the next.
Never forget, for even a moment, that we are ALL deserving of Hell.
In XC,
Bari Stepanovich
*****************************************************************************
IC XC
--+-- "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner."
NI KA
bam
> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
No, Jesus is our mediator for Redemption - this has nothing to do with
praying to the saints.
But your mind is clouded in sin, Doc - that's why you can't think straight.
BAM
bam
> I honestly don't know HOW I can voice my disagreement of the teachings
> of the RCc without sounding that way, because clearly, they are NOT
> foillowing the TRUE Scriptures in their teaching.
> Any suggestions are welcomed.
And of what value are the words of a false Christian abortionist?
BAM
Damien Harrison
"Bari Stepanovich" <nomail...@thanx.com> wrote in message
news:3cfc4db7...@tornado.usenetplanet.com...
> On Tue, 04 Jun 2002 01:32:53 GMT, gga...@cfl.rr.com wrote:
>
>
> Automatically assuming that Heaven is your final destination is the
> very thing that will guarantee that you will NEVER see it.
Why?
Harro.
Damien Harrison
> JMJ
>
> "Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message:
> >
> > "JCarew" <oth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>
> >>>>Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
> >>>>even in this day and age ever hear of the term
> >>>>"Kaddish"
>
> >>>>The Jewish Kaddish:
>
> >>>So?. Any basis in Scripture?
>
> >>Yes according to Jewish scripture as interrupted by
> >>the Jewish Rabbis
>
> >> See http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/kaddish.html
>
> >Wasn't much Scripture quoted. Nothing that seemed
> >to give rise to the Kaddish.
>
> So?
>
> >What "Jewish Scripture" are you talking about?
>
> I never referenced any scripture,
Never said you did. You said "according to Jewish scripture". And because
the Scriptures referenced in that website never said anything about dead
people, as far as I could see, I was wondering if you meant something else.
> but the Rabbis reference Deuteronomy.
Their reference didn't have anything to do with prayer for the dead though.
> They should know so I'll take there word for it.
They should know what. How to invent new traditions?
Harro.
bfm
> Do you want to see a communion of saints?
> Just walk into a protestant church during worship service.
I used to be a Protestant. I do not have any desire to go back to that
half-baked watered down religion they call the true faith. The
Communion of Saints is bigger than just this world.
> Intercessory prayer is fine but the dead can't pray for you.
Yes they can, and who are you to claim they can't?
> A prayer for the dead is a prayer spoken too late.
Not for those undergoing purification in Purgatory. Our prayers are
very helpful to them.
bfm
> It's OK because I know that I will see them again but they are dead
> now and they can't pray for me.
Just who do you think you are to think that you can dictate to God
what He can or cannot allow the Saints in Heaven to do?
bfm
> When ressurection day comes we will get to meet her and it
> will be cool.
We will meet her at our own death actually. Some people (as in the
various appearances of Mary throughout history) in history have
actually met her in this life.
> If you want to prove a protestant wrong you must do it with
> scripture. Catholic tradition doesn't mean anything to us.
Just because Protestants have thrown away 2/3 of the Christian faith,
doesn't make us bound by your rules. You are the one in heresy.
bfm
> > My own (biological) mother prays for me,
> > why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
>
> Your biological mother is alive.
Mary is alive too. Body and soul, in heaven
> > > The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely about Mary.
> >
> > What is false? She is the mother of Lord Jesus
> > Christ.
>
> Yes of course and she deserves our deepest respect.
> But she can't help you with your prayers?
I'll ask you again. Who do you think you are to dictate to God that He
cannot allow Mary to hear our requests and interceed for us?
bfm
> I couldn't find that in the bible anywhere.
All of the Christian Faith is not in the Bible. Throw off your
protestant brainwashing and heresy.
bfm
> Sure but it only works for people who are alive.
Mary IS alive.
Noone is truly dead.
We on earth are alive in body and soul.
Those who have died are alive in soul and are either in Heaven, Hell,
or Purgatory.
Mary is alive body and soul. She also has a body like we will have
after the ressurection.
Stephen Quist
:: "Stephen Quist" <qui...@spamfree.msei-co.com> wrote in message
John's delicately ambiguous phrase, "the disciple whom he loved",
invites us all to place ourselves in that role.
Steve
Stephen Quist
::: antiaging wrote:
::::: The Roman catholic church is teaching falsely to say that Mary is
::::: interceeding for people.
::: You have not proven the teaching is false.
:::
::::: Mary is not needed to pray for anybody.
::: Agreed.
:::
::: []
::::: Mary is not needed to interceed for anybody. Mary is not needed to
::::: pray for anybody.
:::
::: I agree. Her prayers are not *needed*. But they sure are nice to
::: have.
:::
::: As James says in Chapter 5 of his letter:
::: 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one
::: another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous
::: person is very powerful.
:::
::: Who is more righteous than Mary?
:::
::: Steve
:::
:: Sure but it only works for people who are alive.
Why is that? One of the common understandings we have is that
there is no time, as such, in heaven.
Steve
gga...@cfl.rr.com
name of the Son of God, THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE have eternal life,
and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Psalms 44:8 "In GOD we BOASTalll the day long, and praise Thy Name
forever. Selah.
Gator
JCarew
"Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message:
>>>>>>Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
>>>>>>even in this day and age ever hear of the term
>>>>>>"Kaddish"
>>>>>>The Jewish Kaddish:
>>>>>So?. Any basis in Scripture?
>
>>>>Yes according to Jewish scripture as interrupted by
>>>>the Jewish Rabbis
>>>> See http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/kaddish.html
>>but the Rabbis reference Deuteronomy.
>Their reference didn't have anything to do with prayer
>for the dead though.
According to the Rabbis interpretation as stated in
the website it does. I figure they should know so I'll
take there word for it.
quote
"Grant atonement to your nation Israel whom you
have redeemed." (Deut:21:8)
The Rabbis explained in the Pesikta:
" ... this refers to the dead who can receive atonement
thorugh the charity of the living."
Thus we learn that the dead derive benefit from charity
which the living give on their behalf ... This also applies
to one who recites KADDISH or any blessing
publicly in the synagogue. (R' Bachya, Deut:21:6)
unquote
Jim Carew sfo
Don
>Mary is alive body and soul. She also has a body like we will have
>after the ressurection.
And the proof is this is???
Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.
- Lilliam Hellman
Don
>
>"Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
><Dr.G...@son.net> wrote
>
>> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
>
>No, Jesus is our mediator for Redemption - this has nothing to do with
>praying to the saints.
The scriptures teach there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and Man.
The scriptures do NOT teach there is one mediator FOR REDEMPTION.
The scriptures do NOT teach there are MANY MEDIATORS for prayer in
Heaven.
The scriptures teach there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and Man...the
man Christ Jesus, NOT MARY, NOT any so-called saints, not your
favorite aunt.
D*
Damien Harrison
Such a big leap in doctrine for such a little phrase.
Harro.
Damien Harrison
> JMJ
>
> "Damien Harrison" <har...@netspace.net.au> wrote in message:
>
> >>>>>>Besides Catholics, Jews also pray for there dead
> >>>>>>even in this day and age ever hear of the term
> >>>>>>"Kaddish"
>
> >>>>>>The Jewish Kaddish:
>
> >>>>>So?. Any basis in Scripture?
> >
> >>>>Yes according to Jewish scripture as interrupted by
> >>>>the Jewish Rabbis
>
> >>>> See http://www.mnemotrix.com/kaddish/kaddish.html
>
> >>but the Rabbis reference Deuteronomy.
>
> >Their reference didn't have anything to do with prayer
> >for the dead though.
>
> According to the Rabbis interpretation as stated in
> the website it does. I figure they should know so I'll
> take there word for it.
Why should they know?
Harro.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
news:uukpfu4p8d5i162ar2mto7iagv5ba21131@watsnet...
> Protestant Baptist Christian and proud of it.
> Doc
Question for ya, Doc: Do you Baptists ever gather into "prayer meetings"?
And if you guys do hold "prayer meetings", do you intercede on behalf of
others? You know, pray for them by asking God to "help Joe with his job" or
"help Sarah get well" or "help Pastor to preach a powerful sermon this
coming Sunday", that sort of thing?
Or do you Baptists AVOID interceding (mediating, if you will) before God on
behalf of others?
The reason I ask is because I notice you seem to get kinda ansy when the
idea of Mary interceding (mediating, if you will) in prayer for others comes
up, Doc.
V.O.J
> On 4 Jun 2002 03:46:46 -0700, b...@justcatholic.org (bfm) spake these
> words as Gospel truth on Usenet newsgroups:
>
> >"Terry" <ter...@northstate.net> wrote in message
news:<ufnmc1q...@corp.supernews.com>...
> >
> >> > My own (biological) mother prays for me,
> >> > why shouldn't Gods' Mother pray for us?
> >>
> >> Your biological mother is alive.
> >
> >Mary is alive too. Body and soul, in heaven
> >
> Her soul is in heaven with the Lord, the same as all others who have
> died in Christ.
> Her BODY continues to await the final resurrection, just like all
> others who have died in Christ.
>
Her body no longer exists.
Stephen Quist
It happens all the time with bible exegesis. However, in this case
there are other texts that support the notion. I'm thinking specifically
of the passages that make all Christians members of the same family.
Steve
Don
JOKE!" <rain...@att.net> wrote:
>
>"Dr. G. Watson -- ©Copyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved ®"
><Dr.G...@son.net> wrote in message
>news:uukpfu4p8d5i162ar2mto7iagv5ba21131@watsnet...
>> Protestant Baptist Christian and proud of it.
>> Doc
>
>
>Question for ya, Doc: Do you Baptists ever gather into "prayer meetings"?
>And if you guys do hold "prayer meetings", do you intercede on behalf of
>others? You know, pray for them by asking God to "help Joe with his job" or
>"help Sarah get well" or "help Pastor to preach a powerful sermon this
>coming Sunday", that sort of thing?
When "Baptists" and other believers gather at "prayer meetings," they
pray to God the Father through Jesus, the mediator. They do NOT feel
any need to pray through any dead person...whether their spirit be in
Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, Cleveland or anyplace else! Why bother when
you can go directly to the Father???
Jesus said,
"Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name. etc., etc., etc."
Jesus did NOT say,
"Pray, then, in this way:
'Hail Mary, etc., etc., etc.
Stephen Korsman
<gga...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3cfc08d8...@news-server.cfl.rr.com...
> If I may intercede, I would like to make a few coments.
>
> 1. The word intercessor only appears one time in the Bible
The concept of intercession is not limited to the quotes you have. Eph
6:18, Romans 15:30, Col 4:3, 2 Thess 1:11 ... intercession is not limited to
Christ. We are all intecessors.
God bless,
Stephen
--
--
Stephen Korsman
skor...@global.co.za
skor...@theotokos.co.za
www.theotokos.co.za
www.theotokos.co.za/adventism
IC | XC
---------
NI | KA
Stephen Korsman
"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
news:q0mpfu4jpv8qgqas396plqt2jubg9q4o2l@watsnet...
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:55:03 +0200, "Stephen Korsman"
> <skor...@theotokos.co.za> spake these words as Gospel truth on Usenet
> newsgroups:
>
>
> >> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
> >
the
> >ONLY intercessor.
> >
> Nope. The BIBLE says this:
>
> Job 16:20
> 20 My intercessor is my friend as my eyes pour out tears to God;
> NIV
You ignore Eph 6:18, Romans 15:30, Col 4:3, and 2 Thess 1:11. If this is
NOT intercession, what English word do YOU use to describe it?
> Now, I've shown you the BIBLICAL PROOF of my argument........
I wouldn't call it proof, when you quote two texts that do not even come
close to saying that there is only one intercessor. One mediator, yes ...
one intercessor, no, far from it.
Until you can show me from the Bible that we may NOT intercede for each
other, I will continue to do so, and I am sure all Catholics, Orthodox, and
most Protestants who believe the Bible will as well.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> On Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:57:10 GMT, "30000+ protestant sects are a
> JOKE!" <rain...@att.net> spake these words as Gospel truth on Usenet
> newsgroups:
>
> >"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
> ><Dr.G...@son.net> wrote in message
> >> Mary does NOT intercede for anyone. SHE IS DEAD.
> >
> >
> >Sorry Doc, but we Christians believe that followers of Christ are ALIVE
in
> >Christ, not "DEAD".
> >
> Their SOULS are laive, yes, but their pyhsical bodies are DEAD.
So you Southern Baptists reject the parts of scripture which say that people
get new bodies, and reject the parts of scripture which report that certain
people were directly assumed up into Heaven?
What OTHER parts of the Bible do you Southern Baptists also reject, Doc??
> I have
> said this all along, and will continue to say it. MARY does NOT
> intercede for anyone.
Do you have a verse from scripture which backs up that dogma of yours, Doc?
> She is not authorized to, for one, and secondly, SHE IS PHYSICALLY
> DEAD.
Just out of curiousity, Doc: do you Southern Baptists also feel the saints
(mentioned in the Revelation of Saint John) are "not authorized" to pray?
Which is kind of a shame, since the Bible says they ARE praying....
Second question for you, Doc: do you Southern Baptists have any sort of
plan you guys intend to put in place so as to shut down that "unauthorized"
praying that the Saints are doing?
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
news:lhmpfu04cghsgf7i3ueej8a211jvvnlt5d@watsnet...
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:51:35 -0400, "bam" <b...@digital.net> spake these
> words as Gospel truth on Usenet newsgroups:
>
> >
> ><Dr.G...@son.net> wrote
> >
> >> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
> >
> >No, Jesus is our mediator for Redemption - this has nothing to do with
> >praying to the saints.
> >
Maybe you've answered this already, so forgive me for asking you a second
time if you have, but are you saying that you Southern Baptists don't
intercede in prayer for others? You guys actually don't have "prayer
groups" and "prayer circles" in which you intercede on behalf of others??
You guys never intercede on behalf of others during your "worship" services,
perhaps led in prayer by your pastor or something??
Assuming for the moment that you Southern Baptists actually DO intercede for
others by praying, can you point out where in the Bible it authorizes you
Southern Baptists to intercede for others in prayer, and can you also point
out where the Bible says Mary is NOT authorized to intercede for others,
Doc?
Thanks.
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
"Don" <calldo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u0npfu4pbknkqvovd...@4ax.com...
> When "Baptists" and other believers gather at "prayer meetings," they
> pray to God the Father through Jesus, the mediator. They do NOT feel
> any need to pray through any dead person...
So you think the Saints mentioned in the Revelation of Saint John (it talks
about how they are praying) are "dead persons"??
Oddly, the Bible seems to refer to them as being quite alive......
Don
So you think that WE are to PRAY TO those dead folks?
Oddly, the Bible seems to lack any instruction or command to PRAY TO
those who have died in Christ.
D*
What is more relevant is the nature of fundamentalism. The ultimate
goal of fundamentalism is to defend doctrine while attacking all
alternative ideas. Similarly, the ex-gay movement seems to be about
pressuring participants to defend ex-gay theory while attacking any
alternative ideas about sexuality. Both movements, fundamentalism
and the ex-gay sub-movement, do not empower their participants, but
seek to ensure that their participants blindly maintain doctrine.
--Norm
olc...@cox.net
Can't you just buy an indulgence? Or doesn't the church sell them
anymore?
gga...@cfl.rr.com
When I posted my statement, I was in no way referring to the "concept
of intercessor." I simply made the statement that the WORD
intercessor, only appearts one time in the Bible and that is in Issiah
59:16. I have a concept of how the engine in my automobile works but
that does not mean I am going to take it apart and try to put it back
togather. When I am studying a portion of scripture and am trying to
find the best understanding of the verses possible, I look up six or
seven different translations plus I also research the Hebrew and the
Greek or Aramaic. It takes a little time but I guess that's what it
means in 2 Tim. 2:15, "study to show thyself approved unto God" and it
doesn't simply mean to read a verse or portion of scripture if you
really want to be able to find the most accurate meaning. I am not a
minister or any of the other titles we use to describe a "man of the
cloth." Actually, I am a returning prodigal that did not go to church
for 25 years and just recently discovered how God uses Grace, Faith
and Works in the lives of His believers. It's like Hunter used to say
on TV, "It works for me."
Gator
"It's a miracle only if you do NOT expect it to happen"
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> So you think that WE are to PRAY TO those dead folks?
Yes, and for two very good reasons:
1. They're not "dead"; they are alive in Christ, according to the Bible
2. Christians are SUPPOSED to pray for one another, according to the Bible
I suppose it all comes down to whether you believe the Bible or not, Don.
BTW, if you are a follower of one of the many protestant sects, it is highly
likely that your sect has what your sect refers to as "prayer meetings", in
which your sect members sit around in a circle on metal folding chairs or in
the pews and "PRAY TO" one another. Most educated Christians refer to that
as "praying for" one another, but hey, if your particular sect likes to
refer to what you guys do when you're sitting around in those circles on
metal folding chairs as "praying TO" one another, we can go with that
terminology of yours, Don.
Terry
"JCarew" <oth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:se3L8.8340$d7.388...@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
atonement
of the living for the death of the man found dead.
See Deut 21:5
"Then the priests, the sons of Levi, shall come near, for the LORD your God
has chosen them to serve Him and to bless in the name of the LORD; and every
dispute and every assault shall be settled by them.
Notice: "every dispute and every assault shall be settled by them."
(atonement was to be made for the killing, the killer would need the
atonement and he was still alive)
Next read Deut 21:9
"So you shall remove the guilt of innocent blood from your midst, when you
do what is right in the eyes of the LORD.
Notice: "remove the guilt of innocent blood" (make atonement for the
killing)
Notice: "from your midst" (this obvoiusly wasn't written for the dead man to
read so "your midst" must mean the midst of the living)
So you see, there is nothing here about atonement for the dead.
At least you tried to use scripture instead of tradition.
I respect you for that.
Terry
>
>
>
>
>
Terry
From: "bfm" <b...@justcatholic.org>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.
religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.religion.c
hristian
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Scipture does not forbid us from asking others to pray for us.
> "Terry" <ter...@northstate.net> wrote in message
news:<ufnmnao...@corp.supernews.com>...
>
> > Do you want to see a communion of saints?
> > Just walk into a protestant church during worship service.
>
> I used to be a Protestant. I do not have any desire to go back to that
> half-baked watered down religion they call the true faith. The
> Communion of Saints is bigger than just this world.
The term "saint" simply means any follower of christ.
>
> > Intercessory prayer is fine but the dead can't pray for you.
>
> Yes they can, and who are you to claim they can't?
I cannot find any scripture that says they can.
Where did you get this information?
>
> > A prayer for the dead is a prayer spoken too late.
>
> Not for those undergoing purification in Purgatory. Our prayers are
> very helpful to them.
Where did you get this information?
I couldn't find one single reference to purgatory in the bible.
If you know of one, please share it with the group.
I am sure that you believe it but scripture doesn't back it up.
Terry
Terry
"bfm" <b...@justcatholic.org> wrote in message
news:e202c322.02060...@posting.google.com...news:<ufo3g7r...@corp.supernews.com>...
>
> > When ressurection day comes we will get to meet her and it
> > will be cool.
>
> We will meet her at our own death actually. Some people (as in the
> various appearances of Mary throughout history) in history have
> actually met her in this life.
>
> > If you want to prove a protestant wrong you must do it with
> > scripture. Catholic tradition doesn't mean anything to us.
>
> Just because Protestants have thrown away 2/3 of the Christian faith,
> doesn't make us bound by your rules. You are the one in heresy.
What 2/3 are you reffering to ?
30000+ protestant sects are a JOKE!
> > > Intercessory prayer is fine but the dead can't pray for you.
> >
> > Yes they can, and who are you to claim they can't?
>
> I cannot find any scripture that says they can.
I cannot find any scripture that says Christians can post on the Internet
either. Is that a problem for you also, Terry?
bfm
> > WRONG.
> > Her soul is in heaven with the Lord, the same as all others who have
> > died in Christ.
> > Her BODY continues to await the final resurrection, just like all
> > others who have died in Christ.
> >
>
> Her body no longer exists.
It certainly DOES exist. And it is the glorified body like we will all
get after the ressurection.
bam
> What abortions have I committed LIAR?
> I am not an abortionist.
> You are libeling me in posting this .
There were many who fought for the South in Civil War that didn't have
slaves. But they defended the rights of slaveholders to own slaves.
You'e no different.......wait.........no.......you'e worse - because
abortion is worse than slavery.
BAM
bam
"Don" <calldo...@earthlink.net> wrote
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:51:35 -0400, "bam" <b...@digital.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dr. G. Watson -- ŠCopyrighted 2000... All Rights Reserved Ž"
> ><Dr.G...@son.net> wrote
> >
> >> Jesus Christ is our intercessor, not Mary.
> >
> >No, Jesus is our mediator for Redemption - this has nothing to do with
> >praying to the saints.
>
> The scriptures teach there is ONE MEDIATOR between God and Man.
> The scriptures do NOT teach there is one mediator FOR REDEMPTION.
Why do I argue with ignorami?
1Tim 2:5 " For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man
Christ Jesus: who gave Himself a redemption for all. Whose testimony in due
times is confirmed."
> The scriptures do NOT teach there are MANY MEDIATORS for prayer in
> Heaven.
You don't know what the passage means because you only read the one
sentence. You've never even read the whole paragraph you buffoon. You don't
even know what a mediator is. So shaddaap - and that goes for Doc, as well.
BAM
bam
> AMEN to that Don.
And what does "Amen" mean from the mouth of an abortionsit?
BAM
bam
> and you are totally sinless, is that right?
I was the other day.
> I have admitted I am a sinner from day one-------- in need of a
> Savior, that Savior being Jesus Christ.
Not good enough - you have to itemize them or they will not be forgiven.
> I KNOW where my final destination will be------ and with whom.
> I know I am a forgiven person, who will still continue to commit sin,
> unfortunately, until the day I go to be with the Lord.
>
> Now----- you were muttering ...?
That you are in denial.
BAM
Bari Stepanovich
<har...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>> Automatically assuming that Heaven is your final destination is the
>> very thing that will guarantee that you will NEVER see it.
>
>Why?
>
>Harro.
The moment one deems himself "saved" and therefore Heaven-bound is the
very same moment that true repentance ends.
In XC,
Bari Stepanovich
*****************************************************************************
IC XC
--+-- "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner."
NI KA