Anti-Leiberman Backlash Already
Fred Cherry
In Message-ID: <3991F895...@hers.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 20:34:30 -0400
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Anti-Leiberman Backlash Already
Jewish-American Princess Susan Cohen <fla...@his.com> wrote:
> I had to go to my police station to see about getting
> an abandonned truck towed, and I overheard an
> officer talking on the phone. He was telling the other
> person about his "friends from West Virginia." They've
> always been solidly Democratic, but "they're Christian."
> These people are now very upset because "they believe
> in Jesus Christ, so now they're going to have to vote
> for Bush."
>
> The *polls* may say that 92% of Americans would vote
> for a qualified Jew, but what the polls don't show is how
> many people lie to pollsters so they won't look like bigots.
>
> Susan
How do you know that the person you overheard isn't one of the 8% who would
NOT lie to a pollster?
It doesn't make sense that people would lie to pollsters. What would people
be afraid of, that a pollster would tell the friends and neighbors what the
polled person had responded to the pollster's questions?
'Fess up, now. You like Lieberman because Lieberman is pro-fag.
jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
Grand Duke of Yugoslobia
Duke of Vulgaria
Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem
& Elector of Homophobia
Lost Boy
biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright than
most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for President.
Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck most of
the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he said.
Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need to
grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
Lost Boy
go crawl under a rock. The threat of terrorism is always there and always will
be. Are you too cowardly to stand up for yourself and your beliefs. If you
believe you should vote for Leiberman do not be afraid or weak. We will never
gain credibility with the Arabs until they desire to give it to us. We stand as
polar opposites on many issues and until all of them re resolved we will not have
it. Frankly, it is the very few that give most Arabs a bad rap. Most have no
beef with America. Think people think.
Actually you may like to read the proceedings of the last peace summit at Camp
David 2 and see what went on. It is an eye opener and you will truely understand
the issues better. I think when you do that you might have a different
understanding and opinion. They want what you and I want. Peace and Freedom.
Everyone wants it. Terrorists are not legitamate players in the scheme of
things. They thrive on fear and distortion of power.
Rustin Parr wrote:
> Funny that the media don't mention the other Jews currently or recently
> in positions of great power in the administration, Albright, Cohen,
> Greenspan, Reich....how the hell is the US supposed to gain credibility
> among the Arab states with this kind of bias?? Get ready for more
> conflict and terrorism from extremist Arabs who are already convinced
> that the US and Israel are joined at the hip.
Albert Reingewirtz
<noad...@noaddress.com> wrote:
> It amazes me sometimes what appears here on this newsgroup. This has to be
> the
> biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright than
> most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
> canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for President.
> Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck most of
> the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
> nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he said.
> Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
> Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need to
> grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
>
>
>
Hey a new angle a missionary has just invented. Go fuck off noudoick!
We do not need your Jeeesus nor your Lieberman.
Rustin Parr
in positions of great power in the administration, Albright, Cohen,
Greenspan, Reich....how the hell is the US supposed to gain credibility
among the Arab states with this kind of bias?? Get ready for more
conflict and terrorism from extremist Arabs who are already convinced
that the US and Israel are joined at the hip.
ZedMan2K
up there minds who to vote for..."Well if 51% of people like Bush I guess I
should vote for him"...
I don't think it's any diff then in grade school when someone said " come on
take a drag it will make you look cool" or High School " come on a little
JD will make you more loose"
Come on people, when are people going to grow up and think for with there
own mind and not what someone tells them??
After all TV is nothing more then people telling you 1% of the truth just
hoping you will beleave them.
People realy need to look into things and not just go buy what someone
said...!
"Fred Cherry" <jo...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:FzCKt...@world.std.com...
Mark Decker
vote.
Lost Boy wrote:
>
> It amazes me sometimes what appears here on this newsgroup. This has to be the
> biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright than
> most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
> canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for President.
> Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck most of
> the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
> nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he said.
> Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
> Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need to
> grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
>
Jennifer Usher
"Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> vote.
Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
--
Jennifer Usher
Orthodox
"Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
will
> probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
am no
> more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
are.
Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
R. L. Measures
<ark...@nospam.net> wrote:
> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> vote.
>
€ The Republicans are like unto the Democrats. They believe in Cash.
--
- Rich... 805.386.3734.
www.vcnet.com/measures, remove plus from adr.
R. L. Measures
"Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
Vernon O
Lost Boy <noad...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3999EA96...@noaddress.com...
> It amazes me sometimes what appears here on this newsgroup. This has to
be the
> biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright
than
> most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
> canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for
President.
> Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck
most of
> the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
> nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he
said.
> Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
> Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need
to
> grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
>
>
>
OK so you are died in the wool Democrat
but
1. Lieberman is not a Christian, for whatever that may mean in government.
2. Lieberman has changed his backing on several issues (right or wrong)
since being nominated.
3. Not recognizing these facts is to be unfit to discuss it at all.
Vernon O
"------------------"
The above is everything that can be considered valid by someone who has no
idea who or what Lieberman is.
Karen Horn
:
: "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
: news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
:> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
:> vote.
:
: Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
: probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
: more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
out and deliver a dead kid
Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
27 years....
I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
Karen Horn
: In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
: "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:
:> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
:> will
:> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
:> am no
:> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
:> are.
:>
:> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
:
: Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
:
: --
In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
Lost Boy
and are not supported by Gore or Lieberman. Even the Supreme Court has condemmed them.
Further, if you understand law you wiould understand that abortion is a non-issue. The
Courts rule to stay out of personal lives of individuals. They allow people to make choices
for themselves. I am sorry you dislike abortion. I dislike it. I abhore it, however I do
not have the right to make personal decisions for everyone either. The law is designed only
to rule when it affects people in general. Right now the fetus is termed not a person, but a
collection of living cells. If you do not like a person having an abortion you have the
right to sue them. You will never win though because it is their choice. Until a fetus is
considered a living human being than it will always be considered this way. The real problem
is how people view life. Too many view it less than sacred. Making abortion illegal does
not stop it. Many risked abortions when they were illegal and many girls died or could never
have children again. If you want to change abortion, change the hearts and minds of the
people. Educate people, get them to care, but do not try to force it through legislation.
Force only creates problems. I suggest reading Civil Disobedience and Ghandi for more
information.
Karen Horn wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> :
> : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> :> vote.
> :
> : Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> : probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> : more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
> :
>
Super Dave
>
>Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> out and deliver a dead kid
This is ridiculous. They do not support this. This is something that is
(possibly) done in the third trimester. Gore/Lieberman do not support
abortions after the second trimester is over.
By any means, this is not a regular occurrence (in the U.S). Check the
statistics. The mass majority of abortions are completed within the first
three months, and certainly not in the way you describe.
>Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
I wonder how these two men would feel if their wives were raped and became
pregnant? Would they go on with the pregnancy? People can talk all they
want, but until something unfortunate occurs in their life, they can never
really know how they would react. Instead they want to force their
opinions on and make decisions for everyone else.
>The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> 27 years....
Karen, I hope you are NEVER raped and have to make such an incredibly
difficult decision to have or not to have an abortion.
Abortions are not easy on any woman. But they are not murderers, as you
like to call them. They are women who must make a difficult decision on
whether to go on with a pregnancy and raise a child, many times a child
that they could never have planned for. When you raise the banner against
all abortions, you have no perspective on that issue. Nothing can ever be
cut and dry, black and white.
Some day you will also realize that making abortion illegal will not stop
abortion's occurrence -- it will result in unsanitary, underground
occurrences. It will result in the death of many women (we know about
this because it's what happened before Roe v Wade).
You want to say that aborting a multi-celled organism is murder, go
right ahead. But also remember that the next time you take an
anti-biotic, eat chicken or beef, or squash a cockroach.
>I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
Let me tell you something, Karen. I am pro-choice, but anti-abortion.
Pro-choice is a movement that asks the public NOT necessarily to agree
with a woman's decision, but to allow her to make that decision. You see,
one can be Catholic and be pro-choice. I know several who are.
Karen, I would like you to do something for me. Please look into Japan's
history and current practices. There's a great book called "Liquid Life:
Abortion and Buddhism in Japan" by William LaFleur. Excellent book. And
it will give you some perspective that you so desperately need.
David
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We must love each other or die."
--W. H. Auden
"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and
love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time
they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it,
ALWAYS."
--Mahatma Gandhi
Lost Boy
Jennifer Usher
"Karen Horn" <kah...@king.cts.com> wrote in message
news:8ne9gg$20q9$1...@thoth.cts.com...
> Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> out and deliver a dead kid
> Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
As I have said, I will almost certainly vote for Bush. It will make little
difference in the abortion debate. It is really all about politics. We
don't REALLY know how either side feels about abortion. We know what they
say to win votes.
> The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> 27 years....
>
> I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
I see a bunch of fools thinking that the pious words of ministers who have
been lured by the temptation of political power really mean anything.
God is not a Democrat or a Republican. As Christ said, you strain out a
gnat, and the swallow a big old camel whole.
--
Jennifer Usher
R. L. Measures
wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures
<meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> :
> :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> :> > Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
> :> will
> :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
> :> am no
> :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
> :> are.
> :>
> :>
> :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
> :
> : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> :
> : --
>
> In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
RIP, Mary Jo Kopecnie.
R. L. Measures
wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher
<jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> :
> : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> :> vote.
> :
> : Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> : probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> : more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
> :
>
> Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> out and deliver a dead kid.
€ Until a foetus takes its first breath, it is not a child.
> Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
>
> The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> 27 years....
>
> I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
€ Because he was not inculcated by the RCC before his sixth birthday.
cheers
In the RCC, salvation is based on rubber.
R. L. Measures
<noad...@noaddress.com> wrote:
> I think you are mixed up or something. Late term abortions are illegal
in almost every state
> and are not supported by Gore or Lieberman. Even the Supreme Court has
condemmed them.
€ no longer true. What would you do with a 8th-month foetus that is going
to be born with no skull?
€ as the twig is bent... I have never known a Catholic who could accept
that anyone besides the pope should be able to control their medical
treatment.
>
> Karen Horn wrote:
>
> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher
<jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > :
> > : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> > :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> > :> vote.
> > :
> > : Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> > : probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> > : more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
> > :
> >
> > Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> > womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> > out and deliver a dead kid
> > Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
> >
> > The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> > the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> > 27 years....
> >
> > I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
--
R. L. Measures
> I think you are mixed up or something. ....
Have you read the book *The Lost Boy*?
thanks
Susan Cohen
Karen Horn wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures <meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> :
> :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> :> > Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
> :> will
> :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
> :> am no
> :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
> :> are.
> :>
> :>
> :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
> :
> : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> :
> : --
>
> In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
Not true at all.
Susan Cohen
Karen Horn wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> :
> : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> :> vote.
> :
> : Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> : probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> : more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
> :
>
> Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> out and deliver a dead kid
Gore/Leiberman: It's okay for everyone to follow their
own religious views on a subject where medical science
hasn't ruled - and it's definitely okay to save the life of
women over that of an unborn child.
> Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
You can say that again.
> The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> the last is a-okay
The Gore/Leiberman position is the only one a non-theocracy
can legitimately adopt adopt.
> has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> 27 years....
Only if your religious beliefs say so. Mine don't.
> I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
Maybe because you're the one having difficulty seeing things
the way they are.
Paula
>
> Karen Horn wrote:
>
> > : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > :
> > :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > :> will
> > :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
> > :> am no
> > :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
> > :> are.
> > :>
> > :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
> > :
> > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> > :
> > : --
> >
> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
>
> Not true at all.
What? Please, I do hope I have misunderstood you. Are you saying that
Ted Kennedy is an *observant* (practicing) catholic? If you are, you
have got to be kidding. *cough*.
Paula
Paula
Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
Paula
Lost Boy wrote:
>
> I think you are mixed up or something. Late term abortions are illegal in almost every state
> and are not supported by Gore or Lieberman. Even the Supreme Court has condemmed them.
> Further, if you understand law you wiould understand that abortion is a non-issue. The
> Courts rule to stay out of personal lives of individuals. They allow people to make choices
> for themselves. I am sorry you dislike abortion. I dislike it. I abhore it, however I do
> not have the right to make personal decisions for everyone either. The law is designed only
> to rule when it affects people in general. Right now the fetus is termed not a person, but a
> collection of living cells. If you do not like a person having an abortion you have the
> right to sue them. You will never win though because it is their choice. Until a fetus is
> considered a living human being than it will always be considered this way. The real problem
> is how people view life. Too many view it less than sacred. Making abortion illegal does
> not stop it. Many risked abortions when they were illegal and many girls died or could never
> have children again. If you want to change abortion, change the hearts and minds of the
> people. Educate people, get them to care, but do not try to force it through legislation.
> Force only creates problems. I suggest reading Civil Disobedience and Ghandi for more
> information.
>
> Karen Horn wrote:
>
> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > :
> > : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> > :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> > :> vote.
> > :
> > : Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> > : probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> > : more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
> > :
> >
> > Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
> > womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
> > out and deliver a dead kid
> > Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
> >
> > The Gore/Lieberman position that any sort of abortion up to and including
> > the last is a-okay has lead to a holocaust of 35 million over the last
> > 27 years....
> >
Alan Ferris
>Lost Boy (good name for you)
>
>Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
>in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
>proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
>congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
they are stoping abortions!!!
They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
--
Alan Ferris
eligo, ergo sum Atheist #1211
EAC(UK)#252 Ironic Torture Div.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When the only colour is black -
the only sound
the broken bell
THEN talk to me about why. Spike Milligan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit me: http://www3.mistral.co.uk/xalan/
ICQ UIN: 12811297
Rick
>
> Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> they are stoping abortions!!!
1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
Rick
Lost Boy
weeks in the pregnancy unless doctors give the go ahead which is very rare as they are almost
exclusively for those whose lives are in danger if they deliver the baby. The Supreme Court has
ruled on those state's laws that have made them illegal as constitutional and within those rulings
have condemned partial birth abortions. Clinton vetoed those two bills because they were too broad
and covered just about everything and left uncovered just about everything. Your congressman has
them available if you ask them for a copy.
Lost Boy
Paula wrote:
> Lost Boy (good name for you)
>
> Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
> congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
>
> Paula
>
> Lost Boy wrote:
> >
> > I think you are mixed up or something. Late term abortions are illegal in almost every state
> > and are not supported by Gore or Lieberman. Even the Supreme Court has condemmed them.
> > Further, if you understand law you wiould understand that abortion is a non-issue. The
> > Courts rule to stay out of personal lives of individuals. They allow people to make choices
> > for themselves. I am sorry you dislike abortion. I dislike it. I abhore it, however I do
> > not have the right to make personal decisions for everyone either. The law is designed only
> > to rule when it affects people in general. Right now the fetus is termed not a person, but a
> > collection of living cells. If you do not like a person having an abortion you have the
> > right to sue them. You will never win though because it is their choice. Until a fetus is
> > considered a living human being than it will always be considered this way. The real problem
> > is how people view life. Too many view it less than sacred. Making abortion illegal does
> > not stop it. Many risked abortions when they were illegal and many girls died or could never
> > have children again. If you want to change abortion, change the hearts and minds of the
> > people. Educate people, get them to care, but do not try to force it through legislation.
> > Force only creates problems. I suggest reading Civil Disobedience and Ghandi for more
> > information.
> >
> > Karen Horn wrote:
> >
> > > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Jennifer Usher <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > :
> > > : "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> > > : news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> > > :> I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> > > :> vote.
Paula
>
> Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote ...
> >Lost Boy (good name for you)
> >
> >Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> >in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> >proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
> >congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
>
> term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> they are stoping abortions!!!
>
> the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
> but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
> dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
> wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
>
One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
Paula
Karen Horn
: Susan Cohen wrote:
:>
:> Karen Horn wrote:
:>
:> > : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
:> > : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:> > :
:> > :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:> > :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
:> > :> will
:> > :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
:> > :> am no
:> > :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
:> > :> are.
:> > :>
:> > :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
:> > :
:> > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
:> > :
:> > : --
:> >
:> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
:>
:> Not true at all.
:
: What? Please, I do hope I have misunderstood you. Are you saying that
: Ted Kennedy is an *observant* (practicing) catholic? If you are, you
: have got to be kidding. *cough*.
:
: Paula
Most definitely. I call it "irony."
Karen
Paula
*I* call it *lying*.
Paula
Karen Horn
: On 16 Aug 2000, Karen Horn wrote:
:>
:>Gore/Lieberman = it's totally okay to pull a kid almost out of the
:> womb entirely, stab it in the base of the skull, suck the brains
:> out and deliver a dead kid
: This is ridiculous. They do not support this. This is something that is
: (possibly) done in the third trimester. Gore/Lieberman do not support
: abortions after the second trimester is over.
Snicker, snicker----boy you have really been baboozled. If Lieberman
didn't support them, why the hell didn't he vote to OUTLAW
partial birth abortions. You are one sick puppy.
:
: By any means, this is not a regular occurrence (in the U.S). Check the
: statistics. The mass majority of abortions are completed within the first
: three months, and certainly not in the way you describe.
Who said the mass majority WASn't done in the 1st trimester---I merely
point out the DEMOCRATS are so beholden to the abortion industry
for their money and support they can't bring themselves to even
ban INFANTICIDE when they get a chance.
:>Bush/Cheney = no it isn't
:
: I wonder how these two men would feel if their wives were raped and became
: pregnant? Would they go on with the pregnancy? People can talk all they
: want, but until something unfortunate occurs in their life, they can never
: really know how they would react. Instead they want to force their
: opinions on and make decisions for everyone else.
Bush/Cheney are protestants and most protestants want an exception
for rape/incest---however rape/incest are a tiny, tiny percentage
of all abortions and I am smart enough to vote for someone who
is going to try and ban the vast majority of abortions, rather than
vote for AlphaGore and Joe "sure does wrestle a lot with his
conscience and always loses" Lieberman who never met an abortion they
didn't like---INCLUDING taking a nine month fetus, pulling it out
of a womb except for the head, jabbing scissors in the skull, and
sucking the brains out---this is what they permit to happen---the
care for the abortion industries money and Kate Michelman's approval
more than they do for God's law.
:
: Karen, I hope you are NEVER raped and have to make such an incredibly
: difficult decision to have or not to have an abortion.
WTF difference does this make on anything. WRONG is WRONG, dammit.
What trouble do you have understanding it? If someone killed a family
member of mine, does that mean I get to pull out a gun and shoot
them myself without trial judge jury? Two wrongs don't make a right,
bozo.
: Abortions are not easy on any woman. But they are not murderers, as you
: like to call them. They are women who must make a difficult decision on
THEY ARE. I don'T care how you dance and prance it's the slaughter
of the innocent.
: whether to go on with a pregnancy and raise a child, many times a child
: that they could never have planned for. When you raise the banner against
: all abortions, you have no perspective on that issue. Nothing can ever be
: cut and dry, black and white.
:
Can I steal your car then? Can I burn down your house?
: Some day you will also realize that making abortion illegal will not stop
: abortion's occurrence -- it will result in unsanitary, underground
: occurrences. It will result in the death of many women (we know about
: this because it's what happened before Roe v Wade).
Boo-hoo-hoo----nobody's MAKING them get abortions----guess what snookums---
in a "legal, safe" abortion someone dies every SINGLE TIME....over
35 MILLION in the US since Roe v. Wade. Ever wonder where all the
retarded people are? Those "extra chromosome people" aren't allowed
to live any more---ditto if they're the wrong sex--or 15 year old
felt like spreading her legs for her boyfriend and decided to use
abortion as "birth control."
I guess you're pretty clueless about the championship "Saint" Margaret
Sanger had for the eugenics movement. Rather like Hitler---she hated
all those immigrant Catholic italians, russian Jews etc. having
babies and screwing up her white anglo-saxon protestant world...
so every time you donate to planned parenthood---don't forget to
sieg heil in Herr Hitler's direction.
: You want to say that aborting a multi-celled organism is murder, go
: right ahead. But also remember that the next time you take an
: anti-biotic, eat chicken or beef, or squash a cockroach.
Cockroaches don't have souls, dumb-dumb.
:
:>I don't know why this is so difficult for you to see.
:
: Let me tell you something, Karen. I am pro-choice, but anti-abortion.
yeah sure ya are. you're full of crap.
: Pro-choice is a movement that asks the public NOT necessarily to agree
: with a woman's decision, but to allow her to make that decision. You see,
: one can be Catholic and be pro-choice. I know several who are.
Bullshit.
:
: Karen, I would like you to do something for me. Please look into Japan's
: history and current practices. There's a great book called "Liquid Life:
: Abortion and Buddhism in Japan" by William LaFleur. Excellent book. And
: it will give you some perspective that you so desperately need.
:
What the hell for? I have NOTHING to learn from them.
Karen
Karen Horn
:
: OK so you are died in the wool Democrat
: but
: 1. Lieberman is not a Christian, for whatever that may mean in government.
: 2. Lieberman has changed his backing on several issues (right or wrong)
: since being nominated.
: 3. Not recognizing these facts is to be unfit to discuss it at all.
:
I'm going to faint...I agree with Vernon.
K.
Lost Boy
That is eleven times higher. So what? The rate of children born addicted
to drugs is higher than that. Even worse is the number of mothers who
drink and smoke while pregnant. Some of those babies are also born with
problems or even still born. So is numbers the issue? Because 10,000 is
nothing in comparison. Let's talk numbers for a second. There are 25 to
34 million abortions a year. The number is unknown because there are still
underground ones, the numbers fluxuate (down mostly in recent years), and
accounting of the born dead sometimes are considered aborted. Let's say
though there is no abortion for 20 years. That would spell out 500 to 680
million children who would be unwanted. Even if only half went to
orphanages that would mean for every person there would be an orphan.
Feeding, clothing, and employing these children would be a nightmare. I am
not advocating abortions use for birth control. However I think there is a
logical and good purpose it does serve. Perhaps better birth control and
planning would prevent it's use and would be considered more justified.
Even though the purpose is the same is it not -- birth control?
Rick wrote:
> Alan Ferris wrote:
> >
> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > they are stoping abortions!!!
>
Lost Boy
much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
you believe and say for once.
Paula wrote:
> Alan Ferris wrote:
> >
> > Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote ...
> > >Lost Boy (good name for you)
> > >
> > >Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> > >in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> > >proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
> > >congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
> >
> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > they are stoping abortions!!!
> >
Super Dave
>One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
What does PBA stand for? can we please refrain from using acronyms
unless you define them first. And this means define them in every post,
even if you are just replying to a previous post.
Lost Boy
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Susan Cohen wrote:
> >
> > Karen Horn wrote:
> >
> > > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures <meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> > > :
> > > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> > >
> > > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
> >
> > Not true at all.
>
> What? Please, I do hope I have misunderstood you. Are you saying that
> Ted Kennedy is an *observant* (practicing) catholic? If you are, you
> have got to be kidding. *cough*.
I should have thought it would be obvious
that I am stating that the analogy is incorrect
>
>
> Paula
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Karen Horn wrote:
> >
> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > : Susan Cohen wrote:
> > :>
> > :> Karen Horn wrote:
> > :>
> > :> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures <meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> > :>
> > :> > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> > :> > :
> > :> > : --
> > :> >
> > :> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
> > :>
> > :> Not true at all.
> > :
> > : What? Please, I do hope I have misunderstood you. Are you saying that
> > : Ted Kennedy is an *observant* (practicing) catholic? If you are, you
> > : have got to be kidding. *cough*.
> > :
> > : Paula
> >
> > Most definitely. I call it "irony."
> >
> > Karen
>
> *I* call it *lying*.
>
> Paula
That Leiberman isn't observant? Yes, it's a lie that he isn't.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Alan Ferris wrote:
> >
> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > they are stoping abortions!!!
> >
> > They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
> > the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
> > but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
> > dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
> > wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
> >
>
> One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
cannot be forced on everyone else.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Rick wrote:
> Alan Ferris wrote:
> >
> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > they are stoping abortions!!!
>
> 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
>
> 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
> thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
Not to me.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Vernon O wrote:
> Lost Boy <noad...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
> news:3999EA96...@noaddress.com...
> > It amazes me sometimes what appears here on this newsgroup. This has to
> be the
> > biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright
> than
> > most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
> > canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for
> President.
> > Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck
> most of
> > the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
> > nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he
> said.
> > Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
> > Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need
> to
> > grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
> >
> >
> >
>
> OK so you are died in the wool Democrat
> but
> 1. Lieberman is not a Christian, for whatever that may mean in government.
He didn't say he was. He was merely stating that to him, G-d
is another form of Jesus. Whatever.
> 2. Lieberman has changed his backing on several issues (right or wrong)
> since being nominated.
I've heard of only two changes, and in circumstances
that ayone but a died in the wool republican would
understand as normal.
> 3. Not recognizing these facts is to be unfit to discuss it at all.
I'd say that insisting on calling him "Lieberman" makes you unfit,
for starters.
Paula
>
> One is too much huh. Well one mother who dies that could have prevented it is too
> much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
> you believe and say for once.
If a woman does not want a child then she should not have sex. Period.
End of discussion. That is what is RIGHT.
Paula
>
> Paula wrote:
>
> > Alan Ferris wrote:
> > >
> > > Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote ...
> > > >Lost Boy (good name for you)
> > > >
> > > >Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> > > >in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> > > >proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
> > > >congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
> > >
> > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > > they are stoping abortions!!!
> > >
> > > They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
> > > the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
> > > but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
> > > dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
> > > wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
> > >
> >
> > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
> >
Paula
>
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Paula wrote:
>
> unless you define them first. And this means define them in every post,
> even if you are just replying to a previous post.
>
> David
PBA = Partial Birth Abortion. (keep up)
Paula
Paula
>
> Paula wrote:
>
> > Alan Ferris wrote:
> > >
> > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > > they are stoping abortions!!!
> > >
> > > They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
> > > the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
> > > but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
> > > dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
> > > wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
> > >
> >
>
> cannot be forced on everyone else.
>
> Susan
Has nothing to do with religion.
Paula
Paula
>
> Rick wrote:
>
> > Alan Ferris wrote:
> > >
> > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > > they are stoping abortions!!!
> >
> >
> > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
> > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
>
> Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
> Not to me.
>
> Susan
PBA's do not do anything to *save the life of the mother*. PBA's take
place during periods of viability (7 to 9 months) and it requires a full
labor and vaginal delivery or a surgical proceedure (c-section) to
remove the fetus. Those who obtain these and perform these proceedures
should be prosecuted for murder.
Paula
Paula
>
> In article <399AFF...@bellsouth.net>, spoc...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> > Lost Boy (good name for you)
> >
> > Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> > in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> > proceedures,
>
> matter between patient and doctor.
>
Cite source.
Paula
> .
>
> --
> - Rich... 805.386.3734.
> www.vcnet.com/measures, remove plus from adr.
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Lost Boy wrote:
> >
> > One is too much huh. Well one mother who dies that could have prevented it is too
> > much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
> > you believe and say for once.
>
> If a woman does not want a child then she should not have sex. Period.
> End of discussion. That is what is RIGHT.
In your opinion. (And it's not like that's always the way it works anyway!)
Susan
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Susan Cohen wrote:
> >
> > Paula wrote:
> >
> > > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
> >
> > And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
> > cannot be forced on everyone else.
>
> Has nothing to do with religion.
>
> Paula
Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
an unborn fetus is more important than the
woman is a specific religious doctrine.
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> Susan Cohen wrote:
> >
> > Rick wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Ferris wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
> > > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
> > > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
> > > > they are stoping abortions!!!
> > >
> > > 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
> > >
> > > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
> > > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
> >
> > Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
> > Not to me.
> >
> > Susan
>
> PBA's do not do anything to *save the life of the mother*.
Only according to the anti-choice people,
who have been known to lie to advance their agenda.
> PBA's take
> place during periods of viability (7 to 9 months) and it requires a full
> labor and vaginal delivery or a surgical proceedure (c-section) to
> remove the fetus.
Not exactly.
> Those who obtain these and perform these proceedures
> should be prosecuted for murder.
Go ahead and try it.
Susan
Paula
>
> Paula wrote:
>
I suppose that stimulating one's private parts are the greatest joys and
accomplishments of their lives.......
Paula
Paula
> :>
> :> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> :> : Susan Cohen wrote:
> :> :>
> :> :> Karen Horn wrote:
> :> :>
> :> :> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures <meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> :> :> > : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> :> :> > :
> :> :> > :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> :> :> > :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> :> :> > :> > Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
> :> :> > :> will
> :> :> > :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
> :> :> > :> am no
> :> :> > :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
> :> :> > :> are.
> :> :> > :>
> :> :> > :>
> :> :> > :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
> :> :> > :
> :> :> > :
> :> :> > : --
> :> :> >
> :> :> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
> :> :>
> :> :> Not true at all.
> :> :
> :> : What? Please, I do hope I have misunderstood you. Are you saying that
> :> : Ted Kennedy is an *observant* (practicing) catholic? If you are, you
> :> : have got to be kidding. *cough*.
> :> :
> :> : Paula
> :>
> :> Most definitely. I call it "irony."
> :>
> :> Karen
> :
> : *I* call it *lying*.
> :
> : Paula
>
>
> Karen
I got it.. I got it.. I got it.
Paula
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
Whatever floats your boat.
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>
>
>Rick wrote:
>
>> Alan Ferris wrote:
>> >
>> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
>> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
>> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
>> > they are stoping abortions!!!
>>
>> 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
>>
>> 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
>> thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
>
>Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
>Not to me.
>
>Susan
ALL of those children are murdered, yet not nearly the number
of women would die, only "inconvenienced" for their sluttish
behaviour.
Yes, and I love you, too.
Alan
Fundies, atheists, and Satanists are...
(A.) ...on my nerves.
(B.) ...clueless.
(C.) ...trolling.
(D.) ...spiritually dysfunctional.
(E.) ...in for it.
(F.) ...all of the above.
R. L. Measures
"Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Mark Decker" <ark...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:399A0FD7...@nospam.net...
> > I am confident the Republicans believe in Christ, so they have my
> > vote.
>
> Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I will
> probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I am no
> more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others are.
>
€ In Texas, Bush grants special operating permits for environmental
polluters who contribute soft money to the RNC. This sounds pretty
Christian to me.
later, Jennifer
R. L. Measures
> Karen Horn wrote:
>
> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures
<meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
> > : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > :
> > :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > :> > Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
> > :> will
> > :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
> > :> am no
> > :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
> > :> are.
> > :>
> > :>
> > :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
> > :
> > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
> > :
> > : --
> >
> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
>
> Not true at all.
[chortle]
R. L. Measures
> Lost Boy (good name for you)
>
> Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
> in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
> proceedures,
€ last month the USSC did issue a ruling. Essentially, it is a private
matter between patient and doctor.
.
Karen Horn
:> :>
:> :> Karen Horn wrote:
:> :>
:> :> > In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic R. L. Measures <meas...@vcnet.com> wrote:
:> :> > : In article <klwm5.10675$4T.6...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
:> :> > : "Orthodox" <spamN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
:> :> > :
:> :> > :> "Jennifer Usher" <jenni...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:> :> > :> news:d3wm5.7148$Cc2.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
:> :> > :> > Really? That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard. I
:> :> > :> will
:> :> > :> > probably vote for Bush, as I don't care for any of the others, but I
:> :> > :> am no
:> :> > :> > more convinced that Bush is a Christian than I am any of the others
:> :> > :> are.
:> :> > :>
:> :> > :>
:> :> > :> Lieberman may or may not be Jewish either.
:> :> > :
:> :> > : Lieberman says he is an observant Jew.
:> :> > :
:> :> > : --
:> :> >
:> :> > In the way that Ted Kennedy is an "observant" Catholic.
:> :>
:> :> Not true at all.
Super Dave
Alan Ferris wrote:
>
> ALL of those children are murdered, yet not nearly the number
>of women would die, only "inconvenienced" for their sluttish
>behaviour.
>
>Yes, and I love you, too.
And what about all those slutty men who impregnate the women? It takes
two to conceive, you know (or maybe you don't know).
But of course, all women who have sex for recreation are sluts, right?
Whereas men who have recerational sex are just "being men".
I think you might want to rephrase your idiotic statement, Alan.
Next time you have the baby.
David
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>In article <399B51D2...@hers.com>, fla...@his.com wrote:
>
>> Paula wrote:
>>
>> > Susan Cohen wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Paula wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
>> > >
>> > > And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
>> > > cannot be forced on everyone else.
>> >
>> > Has nothing to do with religion.
>> >
>> > Paula
>>
>> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
>> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
I'd go further, and back, to say that it begins
upon the ejaculation of semen into the vagina.
At that point, a cessation of human will occurs
allowing God to take over, and He's always
for life.
>> an unborn fetus is more important than the
>> woman is a specific religious doctrine.
>
>using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
In that murdering entails dispossessing someone,
or in this case a potential someone, of their life, yours
may be far more plausible than intended.
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, it was written:
>
>Alan Ferris wrote:
...no such thing, as I did instead.
>>
>> ALL of those children are murdered, yet not nearly the number
>>of women would die, only "inconvenienced" for their sluttish
>>behaviour.
>>
>>Yes, and I love you, too.
>
>And what about all those slutty men who impregnate the women? It takes
>two to conceive, you know (or maybe you don't know).
>
>But of course, all women who have sex for recreation are sluts, right?
>Whereas men who have recerational sex are just "being men".
>
>I think you might want to rephrase your idiotic statement, Alan.
Quick! Run from the scene, before someone spots you conversing
with an idiot.
Karen Horn
:
:
: Paula wrote:
:
:> Susan Cohen wrote:
:> > Rick wrote:
:> >
:> > > Alan Ferris wrote:
:> > > >
:> > > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
:> > > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
:> > > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
:> > > > they are stoping abortions!!!
:> > >
:> > > 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
:> > >
:> > > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
:> > > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
:> >
:> > Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
:> > Not to me.
:> >
:> > Susan
:> PBA's do not do anything to *save the life of the mother*.
:
: Only according to the anti-choice people,
: who have been known to lie to advance their agenda.
And the AMA has admitted that people lied in congress when asked if
it was EVER a necessary procedure to save anyone's life... It's NOT
Let's recap what happens here:
anywhere from 5 months onward up to 9 months the mother is preped
for a few days by dilating her. Then when the procedure is to
be done, the abortionist goes in with ultrasound to locate the
feet---then he takes forceps, grabs the feet and turns the child
into a feet first delivery posture breech. NO DOCTOR who ever
wanted a safe delivery would do this...babies CAN be delivered
breech, but it's more dangerous, and now the common procedure
is to have a C-section if the baby can't be turned--there's more
danger of choking... anyway, the abortionist deliberately turns
the child into this dangerous position...then the doctor
pulls the feet out. He pulls the legs out, the child's butt is
delivered, the torso is delivered, the hands are delivered, the
shoulders are delivered....what the abortionist does not deliver
is the head....he can't deliver the head, you see because if the
baby is delivered, and especially if it's 20 weeks old, then
you're looking at one expensive preemie---so the abortionist has
to be very careful to kill it before it snatches a breath of air.
So keeping the head firmly in the birth canal so the head isn't
out, the doctor grabs scissors and stabs the child in the base
of the skull. No, I didn't skip the part where the abortionist
gives the kid a pain killer, even though children at this stage
of development are capable of feeling a great deal of pain...anyway,
after the scissors stab, a tube is inserted into the brain---the
brains are sucked out---not unlike sucking out nasting cobwebs under
a sofa---and then the skull collapses and you deliver the now dead
kid---stick him on ice over there---because a few ghoulish
go-betweens have arranged for a nice kick back to the abortion clinic
for a certain price for the heart, lungs, etc---all with a nice work
order. that can be Mastercard, Visa, Amex---no Discover card, thanks
for your business, do come again.
If you didn't have the guts to read the above, or got squeamish--
tough...it's what happens.
Karen
Karen Horn
: One is too much huh. Well one mother who dies that could have prevented it is too
: much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
: you believe and say for once.
What the hell kind of mormon believes in PBA?
Karen
: Paula wrote:
:
:> Alan Ferris wrote:
:> >
:> > Paula <spoc...@bellsouth.net> wrote ...
:> > >Lost Boy (good name for you)
:> > >
:> > >Late term abortions (partial birth abortions) are currently not banned
:> > >in all states, the Supreme Court has not issued a ruling on these
:> > >proceedures, and President Clinton has, at least twice, vetoed
:> > >congressional bills to make (partial birth abortions) illegal.
:> >
:> > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
:> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
:> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
:> > they are stoping abortions!!!
:> >
:> > They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
:> > the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
:> > but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
:> > dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
:> > wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
:> >
:>
:> One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
:>
:> Paula
:
Karen Horn
:
:> Alan Ferris wrote:
:> >
:> > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
:> > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
:> > they are stoping abortions!!!
:> >
:> > They are ignoring the 99+% for a nice media hype. They also ignore
:> > the fact that it is illegal to do a later term abortion for any reason
:> > but an emergency. Something they never mention? Why? So much
:> > dishonesty surrounds the "PBA" fight that I am amazed that anybody
:> > wishes to leap on the bandwagon!
:> >
:>
:> One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
:
: cannot be forced on everyone else.
: Susan
:
Really? YOUR religious opinion was forced on US.
Karen
Super Dave
>> > Has nothing to do with religion.
>> >
>> > Paula
>>
>> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
>> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
>> an unborn fetus is more important than the
>> woman is a specific religious doctrine.
>
>using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
Not true at all. Please get your facts right.
Contraception is not allowed in Catholicism because Catholics believe that
sex is for procreational purposes (not recreational).
But using a contraceptive does not constitute murder within Catholicism.
You want to fight Catholic beliefs, go right ahead. But at least know
what these beliefs are before you dive into a debate.
Paula
>
> Paula wrote:
>
> > Susan Cohen wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
> > >
> > > And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
> > > cannot be forced on everyone else.
> >
> >
> > Paula
>
> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
> an unborn fetus is more important than the
> woman is a specific religious doctrine.
My views on abortion are not based on my religion.
If a religion happens to agree with my views.. wonderful.
Paula
Paula
>
> Paula wrote:
>
> > Susan Cohen wrote:
> > >
> > > Paula wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One is too much huh. Well one mother who dies that could have prevented it is too
> > > > > much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
> > > > > you believe and say for once.
> > > >
> > > > End of discussion. That is what is RIGHT.
> > >
> > > In your opinion. (And it's not like that's always the way it works anyway!)
> > >
> > > Susan
> >
> > I suppose that stimulating one's private parts are the greatest joys and
> > accomplishments of their lives.......
>
> Whatever floats your boat.
Float your own, don't sink one of another.
Paula
R. L. Measures
> Paula wrote:
>
> > Susan Cohen wrote:
> > >
> > > Paula wrote:
> > >
> > > > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
> > >
> > > And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
> > > cannot be forced on everyone else.
> >
> > Has nothing to do with religion.
> >
> > Paula
>
> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
> an unborn fetus is more important than the
> woman is a specific religious doctrine.
using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
--
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, it was written:
>
>Alan Ferris wrote:
...no such thing, as I did instead.
>>
>> ALL of those children are murdered, yet not nearly the number
>>of women would die, only "inconvenienced" for their sluttish
>>behaviour.
>>
>>Yes, and I love you, too.
>
>And what about all those slutty men who impregnate the women? It takes
>two to conceive, you know (or maybe you don't know).
>
>But of course, all women who have sex for recreation are sluts, right?
>Whereas men who have recerational sex are just "being men".
>
>I think you might want to rephrase your idiotic statement, Alan.
Quick! Run from the scene, before someones spots you conversing
Rick
>
> Rick wrote:
>
> >
> > 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
> >
> > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
> > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
>
> Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
> Not to me.
>
> Susan
Why not do a c-section? In 5 minutes, snip-snat-snout,
its out. No one needs to die. I rather doubt that there
are that many cases where the mother will die if the
baby is not removed in 30 seconds.
Rick
James Kahn
>In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Susan Cohen <fla...@hers.com> wrote:
>And the AMA has admitted that people lied in congress when asked if
>it was EVER a necessary procedure to save anyone's life... It's NOT
>Let's recap what happens here:
[description of PBA snipped]
My only concern with this focus on PBA is that alternative late-term
abortion methods might be viewed as relatively benign. They're not.
As I understand it, the main alternative technique involves essentially
carving up the fetus inside the uterus and then extracting the remains
piece-by-piece.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
Rick
>
>
> Really? YOUR religious opinion was forced on US.
The day when "thou shall not murder" should have to be
forced on US, its over.
For those women out there that have had an abortion
in the past, you have essentially two paths to take:
1. you can continue to live a lie by telling yourself
its only a mass of tissue, the world is better without
another mouth to feed, yadda yadda yadda...
2. Or, you can grow up, be an adult, cry, weep, pray,
seek penance, and leave you soul in God's forgiving
hands. As we all must do.
Rick
R. L. Measures
<Pine.SOL.3.96.100081...@ascc.artsci.wustl.edu>, Super
Dave <dbso...@artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, R. L. Measures wrote:
>
> >> > Has nothing to do with religion.
> >> >
> >> > Paula
> >>
> >> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
> >> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
> >> an unborn fetus is more important than the
> >> woman is a specific religious doctrine.
> >
> >using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
>
> Not true at all. Please get your facts right.
>
> Contraception is not allowed in Catholicism because Catholics believe that
> sex is for procreational purposes (not recreational).
>
> But using a contraceptive does not constitute murder within Catholicism.
>
> You want to fight Catholic beliefs, go right ahead. But at least know
> what these beliefs are before you dive into a debate.
€ There are oral-only teachings within Catholicism. For example,
Catholic children are taught that they will burn in Hell for telling on a
Catholic priest who is sexually abusing altar boys. Since nothing is in
writing, that which the church teaches can not be proven.
>
€ A Catholic friend told me that quite a few of her high-school pals had
managed to get pregnant. This was happening even though the HS nurse
supplied condoms whenever requested. The problem was that very few
Catholic girls were asking the nurse for help. My guess is that the
reason why is the RCC verbal-only teaching against rubber.
How many Catholics know that when medical abortions first became
available, pope Gregory XXXIII permitted abortions during the first
40-days. The 40-day/ensoulment rule continued for several subsequent
popes. (see *Vicars of Christ - The Dark Side of the Papacy* by Fr.
Peter DeRosa, SJ)
>
later, David
R. L. Measures
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic wrote:
€ I don't understand, Alan.
Pied Piper
others. Just another political whore. If he were a true Orthodox Jew he
would not sell out his core beliefs just to get elected. Expescially on
abortion which is an abomination to true Orthodox Jews. He is like all the
other Democrats that worship the opinion poll and will embrace Satan to get
elected.
Pax
"Susan Cohen" <fla...@hers.com> wrote in message
news:399AF1F1...@hers.com...
Mike Richey
>
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Lost Boy
> : <noad...@noaddress.com> wrote: One is too much huh. Well one
> : mother who dies that could have prevented it is too much.
> : Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of.
> : Think about what you believe and say for once.
> :
>
> What the hell kind of mormon believes in PBA?
Official LDS Church policy states that abortion (any kind) is
acceptable when the life of the mother is at stake.
--
Mike Richey
James Kahn
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:45:30 GMT, meas...@vcnet.com (R. L. Measures)
emanated:
> >using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
>
> In that murdering entails dispossessing someone,
> or in this case a potential someone, of their life, yours
> may be far more plausible than intended.
According to that logic, sexual abstinence is also murder.
No disrespect intended, I just don't think you can extrapolate these
sorts of "logical" arguments.
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>In article <4pvmpsgvfqa1f5mo3...@4ax.com>,
>€ I don't understand, Alan.
You were serious in that, and not sarcastic?
Forgive me, if the former, as I've been conditioned
in expecting the latter.
Jennifer Usher
"Mike Richey" <mike@***REMOVE_THIS***bigplanet.com> wrote in message
news:96652596...@news1.bigplanet.com...
> > What the hell kind of mormon believes in PBA?
>
>
> Official LDS Church policy states that abortion (any kind) is
> acceptable when the life of the mother is at stake.
I believe abortion is moral IF the mother's life is really in danger.
HOWEVER, from what I understand, there is NEVER a case where PBA is
required. In fact, common sense would tell you that PBA would be no less
traumatic than simply giving birth, or a Caesarian section.
--
Jennifer Usher
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>In article <4pvmpsgvfqa1f5mo3...@4ax.com>,
>alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:45:30 GMT, meas...@vcnet.com (R. L. Measures)
>emanated:
>> >using a condom is first degree murder according to His Holiness.
>>
>> In that murdering entails dispossessing someone,
>> or in this case a potential someone, of their life, yours
>> may be far more plausible than intended.
>
>According to that logic, sexual abstinence is also murder.
Only if said abstinence was not Scripturally sanctioned,
that is, for Christians.
>No disrespect intended, I just don't think you can extrapolate these
>sorts of "logical" arguments.
...the very thing I've been doing, consensus notwithstanding.
I am but @poorcatholic.com Alan W. Craft
>
>"Mike Richey" <mike@***REMOVE_THIS***bigplanet.com> wrote in message
>news:96652596...@news1.bigplanet.com...
>
>> > What the hell kind of mormon believes in PBA?
>>
>>
>> Official LDS Church policy states that abortion (any kind) is
>> acceptable when the life of the mother is at stake.
>
>I believe abortion is moral IF the mother's life is really in danger.
The child has not yet had the chance to live, and you
would kill it in favor of the mother who has?
All I have to say to you is...
Have you sewn your pee-pee back on yet, and repented?
>HOWEVER, from what I understand, there is NEVER a case where PBA is
>required. In fact, common sense would tell you that PBA would be no less
>traumatic than simply giving birth, or a Caesarian section.
Alan
Super Dave
>>
>>Alan Ferris wrote:
>>
>>I think you might want to rephrase your idiotic statement, Alan.
>
> Quick! Run from the scene, before someone spots you conversing
>with an idiot.
Alan, I'm don't quite understand why you would make fun of yourself. Of
course, I wasn't calling you an idiot. I was calling your statement
idiotic. Big difference.
Alan Ferris
>Susan Cohen wrote:
>>
>> Paula wrote:
>>
>> > >
>> > > One is too much huh. Well one mother who dies that could have prevented it is too
>> > > much. Especially if she has eight children at home to take care of. Think about what
>> > > you believe and say for once.
>> >
>> > End of discussion. That is what is RIGHT.
>>
>> In your opinion. (And it's not like that's always the way it works anyway!)
>>
>> Susan
>
>I suppose that stimulating one's private parts are the greatest joys and
>accomplishments of their lives.......
Paula who admits people sin, but expects them really to be perfect!!
Alan Ferris
>Super Dave wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Paula wrote:
>>
>> >One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
>> unless you define them first. And this means define them in every post,
>> even if you are just replying to a previous post.
>>
>> David
>
>PBA = Partial Birth Abortion. (keep up)
And where can I find a reference to this "Medical" term?
Alan Ferris
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 05:45:30 GMT, meas...@vcnet.com (R. L. Measures) emanated:
>
>>In article <399B51D2...@hers.com>, fla...@his.com wrote:
>>
>>> Paula wrote:
>>>
>>> > Susan Cohen wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Paula wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > One PBA is too many. That is my opinion.
>>> > >
>>> > > And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
>>> > > cannot be forced on everyone else.
>>> >
>>> > Has nothing to do with religion.
>>> >
>>> > Paula
>>>
>>> Has everything to do with it. "Life begins at
>>> conception" is a specific religious doctrine. That
>
> I'd go further, and back, to say that it begins
>upon the ejaculation of semen into the vagina.
>At that point, a cessation of human will occurs
>allowing God to take over, and He's always
>for life.
Why then do most of these lives suffer termination in the first month?
All gods plan?
Pied Piper
stood for on abortion, quotas, and morality just to be Gores partner. As a
Othodox Jew he is a hypocrite, he sold out his religion for polotics.
Typical Democrat. he also spoke out against the pervert then voted against
impeaching him. He is a typical Democrat, full of shit to the core.
Pax
"Lost Boy" <noad...@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:3999EA96...@noaddress.com...
> It amazes me sometimes what appears here on this newsgroup. This has to
be the
> biggest load of crap ever. Leiberman has my vote. He is more upright
than
> most claimed Christians and Jews for that matter. Further he is the best
> canidate of all the four on the ticket. I wish he was running for
President.
> Do not vote based on one issue so petty as his belief in Christ. Heck
most of
> the world does not believe in Christ. Most the people that claim to, know
> nothing of him or try very little if any to put into practice what he
said.
> Secondly, Leiberman is extremely devout. To Christ, but in the form of
> Jehovah. They were the same person, so I do not fear much. People need
to
> grow up and stop being so emotionally driven and think more.
>
>
>
> Fred Cherry wrote:
>
> > In Message-ID: <3991F895...@hers.com>
> > Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 20:34:30 -0400
> > Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
> > Subject: Anti-Leiberman Backlash Already
> > Jewish-American Princess Susan Cohen <fla...@his.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I had to go to my police station to see about getting
> > > an abandonned truck towed, and I overheard an
> > > officer talking on the phone. He was telling the other
> > > person about his "friends from West Virginia." They've
> > > always been solidly Democratic, but "they're Christian."
> > > These people are now very upset because "they believe
> > > in Jesus Christ, so now they're going to have to vote
> > > for Bush."
> > >
> > > The *polls* may say that 92% of Americans would vote
> > > for a qualified Jew, but what the polls don't show is how
> > > many people lie to pollsters so they won't look like bigots.
> > >
> > > Susan
> >
> > How do you know that the person you overheard isn't one of the 8% who
would
> > NOT lie to a pollster?
> >
> > It doesn't make sense that people would lie to pollsters. What would
people
> > be afraid of, that a pollster would tell the friends and neighbors what
the
> > polled person had responded to the pollster's questions?
> >
> > 'Fess up, now. You like Lieberman because Lieberman is pro-fag.
> >
> > jo...@world.std.com (Fred Cherry)
> >
> > Grand Duke of Yugoslobia
> > Duke of Vulgaria
> > Grand Muff-Diver of Jerusalem
> > & Elector of Homophobia
>
Alan Ferris
So you got your idea about life beginning at conception from another
source. Can you please tell us where?
Alan Ferris
>In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Susan Cohen <fla...@hers.com> wrote:
>:
>:
>: Paula wrote:
>:
>:> Susan Cohen wrote:
>:> > Rick wrote:
>:> >
>:> > > Alan Ferris wrote:
>:> > > >
>:> > > > Why do people still refuse to accept that "PBA's" (where did that
>:> > > > term start?) make up less than 1% of abortions....but they sound nice
>:> > > > and nasty so the pro-life choose to go after it so they can pretend
>:> > > > they are stoping abortions!!!
>:> > >
>:> > >
>:> > > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
>:> > > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
>:> >
>:> > Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
>:> > Not to me.
>:> >
>:> > Susan
>:> PBA's do not do anything to *save the life of the mother*.
>:
>: Only according to the anti-choice people,
>: who have been known to lie to advance their agenda.
>
>And the AMA has admitted that people lied in congress when asked if
>it was EVER a necessary procedure to save anyone's life... It's NOT
>
>Let's recap what happens here:
>
> for a few days by dilating her. Then when the procedure is to
> be done, the abortionist goes in with ultrasound to locate the
> feet---then he takes forceps, grabs the feet and turns the child
> into a feet first delivery posture breech. NO DOCTOR who ever
> wanted a safe delivery would do this...babies CAN be delivered
> breech, but it's more dangerous, and now the common procedure
> is to have a C-section if the baby can't be turned--there's more
> danger of choking... anyway, the abortionist deliberately turns
> the child into this dangerous position...then the doctor
> pulls the feet out. He pulls the legs out, the child's butt is
> delivered, the torso is delivered, the hands are delivered, the
> shoulders are delivered....what the abortionist does not deliver
> is the head....he can't deliver the head, you see because if the
> baby is delivered, and especially if it's 20 weeks old, then
> you're looking at one expensive preemie---so the abortionist has
> to be very careful to kill it before it snatches a breath of air.
> So keeping the head firmly in the birth canal so the head isn't
> out, the doctor grabs scissors and stabs the child in the base
> of the skull. No, I didn't skip the part where the abortionist
> gives the kid a pain killer, even though children at this stage
> of development are capable of feeling a great deal of pain...anyway,
> after the scissors stab, a tube is inserted into the brain---the
> brains are sucked out---not unlike sucking out nasting cobwebs under
> a sofa---and then the skull collapses and you deliver the now dead
> kid---stick him on ice over there---because a few ghoulish
> go-betweens have arranged for a nice kick back to the abortion clinic
> for a certain price for the heart, lungs, etc---all with a nice work
> order. that can be Mastercard, Visa, Amex---no Discover card, thanks
> for your business, do come again.
>
> If you didn't have the guts to read the above, or got squeamish--
> tough...it's what happens.
Try actually reading the real and correct method and not some
anti-abortion lie. At least the AMA admitted that some doctors lied.
But you have lied also. The AMA did not and never has claimed all the
testimony was lies, or that D&X is never required. You like many just
lap up the half truths and outright lies that people want to feed you.
Why?
Alan Ferris
>
>>And the AMA has admitted that people lied in congress when asked if
>>it was EVER a necessary procedure to save anyone's life... It's NOT
>
>>Let's recap what happens here:
>
>My only concern with this focus on PBA is that alternative late-term
>abortion methods might be viewed as relatively benign. They're not.
>As I understand it, the main alternative technique involves essentially
>carving up the fetus inside the uterus and then extracting the remains
>piece-by-piece.
Very dangerous to!
Alan Ferris
>Susan Cohen wrote:
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > 1% of 1,000,000 is 10,000
>> >
>> > 10,000/yr about-to-be born babies getting a surgical spike
>> > thrust into their innocent skulls. Yep! Sounds nasty to me.
>>
>> Sound nastier than 10,000 women dying?
>> Not to me.
>>
>> Susan
>
>its out. No one needs to die. I rather doubt that there
>are that many cases where the mother will die if the
>baby is not removed in 30 seconds.
There are often medical reasons why the woman cannot be anesthetised.
Are you willing to be cut up without anesthetics!
Alan Ferris
>In <8nfvr4$1kjl$1...@thoth.cts.com> Karen Horn <kah...@king.cts.com> writes:
>
>>In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Susan Cohen <fla...@hers.com> wrote:
>
>>And the AMA has admitted that people lied in congress when asked if
>>it was EVER a necessary procedure to save anyone's life... It's NOT
>
>>Let's recap what happens here:
>[description of PBA snipped]
>
>My only concern with this focus on PBA is that alternative late-term
>abortion methods might be viewed as relatively benign. They're not.
>As I understand it, the main alternative technique involves essentially
>carving up the fetus inside the uterus and then extracting the remains
>piece-by-piece.
A description they will not like to hear:
D&X Abortions A rare procedure in which the brain is removed from a
fetus when it is partly born. Perhaps 3,000 out of the 1.8 million
yearly abortions in the US use this procedure. The size of the skull
is reduced; this permits the fetus to be removed more easily through
the woman's cervix. Its use is normally restricted to very rare
instances in which: the fetus is already dead
the fetus is alive but must be killed in order to save the life of
the woman
the fetus is alive but must be killed in order to avoid very serious
injury and long term or permanent disability to the woman
Testimony before a Senate committee indicated that a few doctors in
the United States routinely performed D&X abortions for reasons other
than stated above. One exception was a physician in New Jersey. The
alternative to performing a D&X is a hysterotomy. This is a type of
Cesarean Section which is far more dangerous to the woman; it can
cause perforation or tearing of the uterus, hemorrhaging, and/or
complications in future pregnancies
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_defn.htm
I recomend a visit to this website. It fights intolerance, something
we all can learn from.!
Rick
>
> Rick <pe...@cray.com> wrote ...
> >Susan Cohen wrote:
> >>
> >> Rick wrote:
> >
> >Why not do a c-section? In 5 minutes, snip-snat-snout,
> >its out. No one needs to die. I rather doubt that there
> >are that many cases where the mother will die if the
> >baby is not removed in 30 seconds.
>
> There are often medical reasons why the woman cannot be anesthetised.
> Are you willing to be cut up without anesthetics!
And do they result in death? An are there some 10,000
of these rare cases every year? Are you a doctor? If you
are, do you know these answers for sure or are you just
guessing to win an argument.
Rick
Alan Ferris
I am an ex-medical radiographer. So I do know that some conditions
mean that you cannot be anesthetised.
Compare your figure to the number of pregnancies. Then compare it to
the old figures of how many women used to die in pregnancy etc.
Susan Cohen
Pied Piper wrote:
> Lieberman has changed many of his beliefs on Abortiion, Quotas, and many
> others.
So I keep hearing, but without proof.
> Just another political whore. If he were a true Orthodox Jew he
> would not sell out his core beliefs just to get elected. Expescially on
> abortion which is an abomination to true Orthodox Jews.
Shows how nuch you know.
> He is like all the
> other Democrats that worship the opinion poll and will embrace Satan to get
> elected.
As opposed to the Republicans who worship Satan & don't
give a damn what anyone thinks.
>
>
> Pax
Susan Cohen
Jennifer Usher wrote:
> "Mike Richey" <mike@***REMOVE_THIS***bigplanet.com> wrote in message
> news:96652596...@news1.bigplanet.com...
>
> > > What the hell kind of mormon believes in PBA?
> >
> >
> > Official LDS Church policy states that abortion (any kind) is
> > acceptable when the life of the mother is at stake.
>
> I believe abortion is moral IF the mother's life is really in danger.
> HOWEVER, from what I understand, there is NEVER a case where PBA is
> required.
This is not what the latest reports say.
At best, the AMA states that they can't come up with a situation
where it would be the *only* procedure possible.
> In fact, common sense would tell you that PBA would be no less
> traumatic than simply giving birth, or a Caesarian section.
Unless you're a doctor who knows a more abot it
than the rest of us.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Paula wrote:
> My views on abortion are not based on my religion.
In which case you have even less reason to impose them on
*anyone* else, much less everyone.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Karen Horn wrote:
> In alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic Susan Cohen <fla...@hers.com> wrote:
>
> : And luckily, in American, religious opinions such as this
> : cannot be forced on everyone else.:
>
> Really? YOUR religious opinion was forced on US.
You keep telling this lie, but without proof.
Susan
Susan Cohen
Rick wrote:
> Karen Horn wrote:
> >
> >
> > Really? YOUR religious opinion was forced on US.
>
> The day when "thou shall not murder" should have to be
> forced on US, its over.
The day when medical science gets thrown out the window
for one narrow religious stance like the above, it's more than over.
>
>
> For those women out there that have had an abortion
> in the past, you have essentially two paths to take:
>
> 1. you can continue to live a lie by telling yourself
> its only a mass of tissue, the world is better without
> another mouth to feed, yadda yadda yadda...
>
> 2. Or, you can grow up, be an adult, cry, weep, pray,
> seek penance, and leave you soul in God's forgiving
> hands. As we all must do.
Or you can say: "Thank G-d I live in a country where my
life is valued above that which cannot even sustain itself."