HOLY SOW! --YOU GOTTA READ THIS
Donna Kupp
I was doing some research on Mrs. White and swine’s flesh and
found a fascinating article written by the Whites and published in
their Present Truth periodical. What is interesting is that it appears
that when the pioneer Adventist’s based their beliefs on the Bible
alone, they came up with some “Present Truth” that directly
contradicts the present truth about swine’s flesh shown to Mrs.
White by her spirit guide. Following are some excerpts on the
subject of swine’s flesh and Peter’s vision.
THE PRESENT TRUTH. VOL. I. - PARIS, ME.,. NOVEMBER,
1850. - NO. 11
SWINES FLESH
.
"Some of our good brethren are troubled in regard to eating swine's
flesh, and a very few abstain from it, thinking that the Bible
forbids
its use. We do not object to abstinence from the use of swine's
flesh,
if it is done on the right grounds. We think that too free and
abundant
use of it, and other animal food, of which many, and even some of our
brethren in the present truth are not guiltless, is a sin; for it
clogs
and stupefies the mind, and in many cases impairs the constitution;
but
we do not, by any means, believe that the Bible teaches that its
proper
use, in the gospel dispensation, is sinful. But we do object to a
misapplication of the holy scriptures in sustaining a position which
will only distract the flock of God, and lead the minds of the
brethren
from the importance of the present work of God among the
remnant. Error, however small it may appear, darkens and fetters
the soul, and if persisted in will lead to gross darkness, and great
errors, and sooner or later its fatal results will appear."
[WHAT? “…but we do not, by any means, believe that the Bible
teaches that its [swine flesh] proper use, in the gospel dispensation,
is sinful. Did I read that right?] read on…
"The principal texts that are quoted to prove that the Gentile church
is
forbidden to eat swine's flesh are Isa.lxv,4; lxvi,17. Now we do
really
think that these texts fall far short of affording sufficient proof
on
this point. In fact, we must believe they have no direct bearing on
this
time. The burning of "incense upon altars of brick," remaining "among
the graves," lodging "in the monuments," and sacrificing "in gardens"
are rebuked in connection with eating "swine's flesh." Now, if one
applies literally to our day, then, certainly all do; but we think
that
no one will undertake a literal application of the whole of Isa.lxv,
4;
lxvi,17, to this time. This is one reason why we think that these
texts
have no literal bearing on this time…."
[WELL – There goes the “eating swine's flesh and mouse” verse –
right out the window- according to the original present truth that
text has no bearing on this time…]
"…But as we may not all see just alike as to what the Prophet
teaches on this subject, let us come to the New Testament. And
what do we find? Certainly, if eating swine's flesh is a sin in the
sight of Heaven, in this dispensation, the New Testament has in
some way taught us the fact. But we find that the New Testament
does not, directly nor indirectly, teach any such thing."
[WOW! swine's flesh not a sin according to the New Testament.]
"… But the New Testament so far from teaching that the use of
swine's flesh is wrong, that it affords good testimony that it is not
forbidden. First, take the case of the Apostle Peter, when God was
about to send him to preach to the Gentiles. His Jewish views and
feelings in relation to common and unclean beasts that did not part
the hoof and chew the cud, see Lev.xi, must first be removed
before he could see that God was no respecter of persons, and that
there was salvation for the Gentiles. "About the sixth hour,"
(noon,) "Peter went upon the housetop to pray." "He became very
hungry, and would have eaten;" and in this state "fell into a trance."
The opening heavens discovered to him "a certain vessel"
descending, in which "were ALL MANNER of four-footed beast."
&c. Certainly, swine were there. The sudden appearance of these
beasts no doubt aroused Peter's Jewish feelings and prejudices for
he considered many of them "UNCLEAN." At this point "there
came a voice to him, Rise, Peter, kill and eat." But Peter said, "Not
so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or
UNCLEAN." This vision, and the connected circumstances, rid the
Apostle of his exclusive feelings, and opened the way for him to
preach to, and eat with the Gentiles."
[HOLY SOW! – Peter’s vision teaches just what everybody
(except the *new* present truth Adventists) thought it meant. That
the unclean meat laws did not apply to Christianity.]
"Now look at some of the trials of the apostolic church, on the
subject of eating with the Gentiles, and some other points of the
law of Moses, and the final decision of the conference of apostles
and elders assembled at Jerusalem. See Acts,chap.xv. Judaizing
teachers taught the churches that they, in order to be saved must
keep the law of Moses. This at once caused divisions among them,
and called forth the following from the Apostle Paul. "Let not him
that eateth, despise him that eateth not; and let not him which
eateth not, JUDGE him that eateth." See Rom.xiv,1-6. "Let no man
therefore JUDGE you in meat, &c." See Col.ii,14-17. The Gentile
converts used swine's flesh, and other meats which were
"abomination" to the Jews, while the converts from the Jewish
church were inclined to still follow the law of Moses in these
things, and were JUDGING the Gentile converts, and binding on
them burdens which the gospel did not require…Some of our good
brethren have added "swine's flesh" to the catalogue of things
forbidden by the Holy Ghost, and the apostles and elders
assembled at Jerusalem. But we feel called upon to protest against
such a course, as being contrary to the plain teaching of the holy
scriptures. Shall we lay a greater "burden" on the disciples than
seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and the holy apostles of our Lord
Jesus Christ? God forbid. Their decision, being right, settled the
question with them, and was a cause of rejoicing among the
churches, and it should forever settle the question with us."
[WOW AGAIN- “…contrary to the plain teaching of the holy
scriptures…should forever settle the question with us.”
The irony is overwhelming – when the early Adventists stuck with the
Bible they were certain that eating flesh meat – even swine's flesh
was
not a sin. And then what happened – the original “present truth” was
replaced by a *new* present truth revealed to Mrs. White by her
spirit
guide in 1863.
The *new* present truth forbids all flesh meat and it revealed that
God
wanted mankind to return to a vegetarian diet, contrary to Jesus’
example in word and deed. One can only wonder why Jesus did not tell
us
God’s will when he was here on earth? Instead – Jesus ate flesh and
offered flesh food to others and then more than1800 years later
supposedly told Mrs. White “Not an ounce of flesh-meat should enter
our
stomachs. The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's
original purpose in the creation of man." {TSDF 78.3}
Harold Kupp
The entire article is found at:
http://www.presentdaytruth.com/books/present-truth/present-truth-vol1-no11.php
hk
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Andrew
The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's
original purpose in the creation of man." {TSDF 78.3}
True, God's original diet was indeed vegetarian and is the
most conducive to overall health. But remember, there are
those who because of location or circumstance may find
strictly adhering to it to be impractical.
In the final day, the issue will be did we eat and drink the
flesh and blood of Jesus Christ.
"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of
Man and drink his blood, you cannot have eternal life within
you. But anyone who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has
eternal life, and I will raise that person at the last day. For my
flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Anyone who
eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in
him."
John 6:53-56
Donna Kupp
> The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's
> original purpose in the creation of man." {TSDF 78.3}
Andrew,
From the New Testament, please show where Jesus or the apostles ever
taught that we must return to the original diet of the garden of
eden.
If you cannot quote book, chapter and verse, then Ellen White preached
another gospel.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other
gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be
accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any
other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be
accursed.
Donna Kupp
I am not a Seventh Day Adventist (and never have been), a natural
Jew, or a Catholic. I am simply the least of Christ's brethren who
love Him and keep His Commandments.
Andrew
> From the New Testament, please show where Jesus or the apostles ever
> taught that we must return to the original diet of the garden of eden.
Donna, unless you learn what this means and daily
follow what Jesus says you will remain in darkness.
vernono
"Andrew" <andrew....@usa.net> wrote in message
news:f8SdnQxDXYfCHeLV...@earthlink.com...
>
> The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's
> original purpose in the creation of man." {TSDF 78.3}
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Only someone TOTALLY ignorant of the Bible, and human physiology would think
such.
vernono
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:7ece3ba6-ab60-460e...@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 17, 10:24 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
> The eating of flesh is unnatural. We are to return to God's
> original purpose in the creation of man." {TSDF 78.3}
Andrew,
From the New Testament, please show where Jesus or the apostles ever
taught that we must return to the original diet of the garden of
eden.
ORIGINAL, cut animals up, eat them, clothe yourself in them.
ORIGINAL, Man was created as an omnivore or did God make a mistake.
vernono
Yep, learn what it means.
Jesus is no longer flesh and blood..
Omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent.
Possible ONLY as a spirit.
THE VEGETARIAN RETURNS!!!
What kind of people were Adventists in 1858? What light did they have in
regard to the diet question? Many will think, they can eat clean meats;
“Those who labor with their hands must nourish their strength to perform his
labor, and those also who labor in word and doctrine must nourish their
strength; for Satan and his evil angels are warring against them to tear
down their strength. They should seek rest of body and mind from wearing
labor when they can, and should eat of nourishing, strengthening food to
build up their strength; for they will be obliged to exercise all the
strength they have. I saw that it does not glorify God in the least for any
of His people to make a time of trouble for themselves. There is a time of
trouble just before God's people, and He will prepare them for that fearful
conflict.” {1T 206.2}
They should eat good nourishing food to build up their strength. There is a
time of trouble coming, we should make a time of trouble prematurely. Now
what type of good nourishing food did Sr White say we should have;
“I saw that your views concerning swine's flesh would prove no injury if you
have them to yourselves; but in your judgment and opinion you have made this
question a test, and your actions have plainly shown your faith in this
matter. If God requires His people to abstain from swine's flesh, He will
convict them on the matter. He is just as willing to show His honest
children their duty, as to show their duty to individuals upon whom He has
not laid the burden of His work. If it is the duty of the church to abstain
from swine's flesh, God will discover it to more than two or three. He will
teach His church their duty.” {1T 206.3}
What happens there? In 1858 we must have nourishing food, and one of those
good nourishing foods is PORK! That’s right, and in your judgement you have
made pork eating a test. To be a good SDA in 1858, you kept the Sabbath and
you also ate pork. It was good nourishing food.
So, when individuals were making the issue of pork a test, it was premature.
Was there anything wrong with their doctrine? No.
In the foot note James White wrote;
[THIS REMARKABLE TESTIMONY WAS WRITTEN OCTOBER 21, 1858, NEARLY FIVE YEARS
BEFORE THE GREAT VISION OF 1863, IN WHICH THE LIGHT UPON HEALTH REFORM WAS
GIVEN. WHEN THE RIGHT TIME CAME, THE SUBJECT WAS GIVEN IN A MANNER TO MOVE
ALL OUR PEOPLE. HOW WONDERFUL ARE THE WISDOM AND GOODNESS OF GOD! IT MIGHT
BE AS WRONG TO CROWD THE MILK, SALT, AND SUGAR QUESTION NOW, AS THE PORK
QUESTION IN 1858.-- J.W., NOTE TO SECOND EDITION.] FOOTNOTE. 1T 206.
When would that time come? When would the time come to give up pork? We
know biblically speaking, God would never permit his people to eat pork, but
they were blinded.
1844 Egyptian blindness
They were coming out of Egyptian blindness. They left Egypt in 1844 and God
was educating his people. When would be the time when God would say pork
was not for his people?
“God is leading out a people, not a few separate individuals here and there,
one believing this thing, another that. Angels of God are doing the work
committed to their trust. The third angel is leading out and purifying a
people, and they should move with him unitedly. Some run ahead of the angels
that are leading this people; but they have to retrace every step, and
meekly follow no faster than the angels lead. I saw that the angels of God
would lead His people no faster than they could receive and act upon the
important truths that are communicated to them.” {1T 207.1}
God is going to reveal himself to his people as fast as they are able to
bear it.
“But some restless spirits do not more than half do up their work. As the
angel leads them, they get in haste for something new, and rush on without
divine guidance, and thus bring confusion and discord into the ranks. They
do not speak or act in harmony with the body. I saw that you both must
speedily be brought where you are willing to be led, instead of desiring to
lead, or Satan will step in and lead you in his way, to follow his counsel.
Some look at your set notions, and consider them an evidence of humility.
They are deceived. You both are making work for repentance.” {1T 207.1}
Can you believe it? These people were making work for repentance and they
were telling people not to eat pork. That was a bible doctrine, but what
was wrong? The wrong was the timing, it was premature.
It was only as Gods people were able to bear that light that it became an
issue.
This paragraph gives the important reason when pork was to be made a testing
issue.
Sacred things would not be discerned from eating pork.
“God has given you light and knowledge, which you have professed to believe
came direct from Him, instructing you to deny appetite. You know that the
use of swine's flesh is contrary to His express command, given not because
He wished to especially show His authority, but because it would be
injurious to those who should eat it. Its use would cause the blood to
become impure, so that scrofula and other humors would corrupt the system,
and the whole organism would suffer. Especially would the fine, sensitive
nerves of the brain become enfeebled and so beclouded that sacred things
would not be discerned, but be placed upon the low level with common things.
Light showing that disease is caused by using this gross article of food has
come just as soon as God's people could bear it. Have you heeded the light?”
{2T 96.2}
When did the light come? Only when Gods people were able to bear it. When
they were unable to bear it, it was premature and they were told to repent
of that message.
1905 When pork became a test
“The tissues of the swine swarm with parasites. Of the swine God said, "It
is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead
carcass." Deuteronomy 14:8. This command was given because swine's flesh is
unfit for food. Swine are scavengers, and this is the only use they were
intended to serve. Never, under any circumstances, was their flesh to be
eaten by human beings. It is impossible for the flesh of any living creature
to be wholesome when filth is its natural element and when it feeds upon
every detestable thing.” {MH 313.3}
We have learned some very important lessons in regards to the use of Swines
flesh although we are clearly taught we are not to make this point a test
back in 1858, there must come a time when it is a test. That time came when
the people of God were able to bear the light. God gave the light for their
own benefit, not to punish them. He revealed it to his church.
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:93a2c393-596d-475d...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...