how do you join the church
jhl...@webtv.net
but don't know how to join it. I go to a church but they don't seem to
have a call at the end of church for anyone who wants to be a member. I
gave up eatting pork severl weeks ago. but can't seem to give up my
tobacco.
pto...@attglobal.net
out that card and drop it in the offering plate someone should contact you.
I much quicker way is to ask one of the Sabbath School leaders, or ask to
speak to the pastor after the service. You should be able to contact the
church any day of the week by calling their telephone number.
Hope that helps,
Paul
Eldorado
You would do well to consider very prayerfully all that you might read here,
and the responses you may receive to your inquiry.
DaMao
1-877-EGW-MYTH.
or even ask some of us former Adventist.
http://www.formeradventist.com
PS..you want a TRUE Biblical sound doctrine, Bible believing belief system
to join? May I suggest a Baptist Church!
They have a history right back to Acts 2:42. Others may claim this, but the
truth is out there...
Do yourself a favor...investigate it. You will see they are a cult.
Radek Dobias
> to join? May I suggest a Baptist Church!
Baptist church?
I can tell you that I have visited Baptists churches, and have many good
Baptist friends, but there's nothing that would ever attract me.
If I were to consider an alternative to Adventism, I would pick one
of the Sabbath-keeping churches that came out of the worldwide church
of God.
But don't get me wrong, I do respect your opinion. You will answer for
your decisions, just like I will answer for mine.
Radek
dow
you will learn sola scriptura meaning the Bible alone. John Calvin is a
reformer as well as Martin Luther. Both claims that Papacy is the Antichrist
(Adventist have hatred for Catholics and always picking on them the wrong
way) but not the way the Adventist claims. There is a difference between
speculation and plain truth. At PCA, you learn that God does the work, not
you. Calvinist believes that God chooses you and works in you and Arminians
believe that You choose God and work for salvation. The Bible says He choose
you and the Arminains have it backwards. Don't get it backwards. Do you want
to join a Bible believing church? Then DON'T be an Arianian (SDA, JW, Way,
ect... {worst!}). Don't be a Arminian either. Be a Sola Scriptura Bible
believer! Trust God ONLY! If you obsolutly need to join a Saturday worship
church (which is not in the Bible), You might want to try Seventh Day
Baptist. That way you won't be swimming in a soup of speculations in the
Seventhday Adventist Church and REGRET it in the long run. SDA created their
OWN bible, "The Clear Bible" (guaranteed CULT). The Baptist Church that
Damao suggest would be a good one also. Most Baptist churches are Calvinist.
To learn more on what the Bible say, Check out the "T.U.L.I.P."
TulipBee
doctor...@my-deja.com
jhl...@webtv.net wrote:
> I was wandering how do you join the church . I like the SDA very much
> but don't know how to join it. I go to a church but they don't seem to
> have a call at the end of church for anyone who wants to be a member.
I
> gave up eatting pork severl weeks ago. but can't seem to give up my
> tobacco.
Congratulations on your victories.
How to join the church? It's easy. Contact one of the Deacons, Elders
or the Pastor and express your desire. Either the Pastor or one of the
elders will go over the fundamental beliefs of the church with you.
After you are both comfortable that this is what you truly want. You
will either be baptized by emersion or if you have already been
baptised by emersion you can join by profession of faith. It really
isn't all that hard
If you have any questions please feel free to email them to me.
Chris
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Eldorado
<doctor...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> You will either be baptized by emersion or if you have already been
> baptised by emersion you can join by profession of faith.
Actually, it is baptism by immersion, although there is an emersion at the
conclusion of the ritual.
(^_^)
optyk
All you should figure out that jhlvro may have been considering
his descision for a long time now. You don't just wake up one day
and say "I want to be an SDA" My father went into the church an
alcoholic and tabaco-holic. If he wouldn't have changed his
convictions he would probably have died already of liver disease
or cancer. I don't give a "ish" what you think of the SDA church.
God saved my old mans life. And it wasn't even the SDA church
that helped him. It was the Mormon church. Thier Christian
kindness is what mattered the most. Later my dad joined the SDA
church and I followed, ditching the Roman church. There is one
thing that has kept me in despite my disagreements on some SDA
beliefs and attitudes. And that is thier Christian love towards
others of all faiths and ethnic backgrounds and the fundamental
belief in Gods commandments, His second coming, and better health
habits. Over 150 years of studying bible prophesy and learning
through trial and error. A health system among the best. Most of
you wake up every morning to have some SDA food...Kellog's Corn
Flakes. Ofcourse it has no relation what so ever with the church
today but it was founded by a man who truly believed in the
Adventist faith and devoted his life to saving others and
preaching Biblical health reform through his practice.
Being an SDA is a fundamental part of my life and I thank God my
Savior for all He has done even when I have been a phalus with my
church brothers and sisters and a skeptic. God has always
answered my prayers and all has turned out all right.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
DaMao
Radek Dobias wrote:
> PS..you want a TRUE Biblical sound doctrine, Bible believing belief system
> to join? May I suggest a Baptist Church!Baptist church?
Why not, they are closest to any TRUTH out there today.
Here is an outline of "most" Baptist belief's.
SCRIPTURE
They believe the complete Old and New Testaments of the Bible to be
verbally inspired of God and divinely preserved, without
error, in the original writings (autographs); that these are the final
and supreme authority of God for faith and life in the local church. II
Tim 3:16; John 5:39; II Peter 1:21; Rom. 15:4; Rev. 22:19
THE GODHEAD
They believe the Godhead eternally exists in three persons; namely
the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are
one God having the same nature, attirbutes and perfections. John 4:24;
Gen. 1:26; Mt. 28:19-20; Eph. 2:18; II Cor 13:14.
THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST
They believe in His eternal existence as God; His incarnation by means
of the virgin birth; His death on the cross as the substitutionary atonement
for our sin; His literal bodily resurrection from the dead; His present
misistry in heaven; His personal return to the earth. Lk. 1:35; Jn 1:1;
I Peter 2:24; Eph. 1:7; Heb. 9:24; Rom. 8:34; I John 2;1-2
THE HOLY SPIRIT
They believe the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Godhead, convicts
men of sin, regenerates, baptizes, indwells, seals,
and sets believers apart unto Holy living; that He is the teacher of
the Word of God and the guide for our dailylife. John 16:8; 14:16-18; Rom.
8:9; I Cor. 6:19-20; Eph. 1:13-14; I John 2:20-27
MAN
They believe that man was created in the image of and in the likeness
of God, but in disobedience to God's word sinned, thus causing separation
from a Holy God; that man is totally depraved and, of himself, is utterly
unable to remedy his lost condition. Gen. 1:26-27; Rom. 3:24; Eph.
2:1-3, 12.
SALVATION
They believe that salvation is by grace and a free gift of God apart
from works and is through personal faith in Christ as Savior
and Lord. All who receive Him are generated by the Holy Spirit
and become children of God. Eph. 2:8-9.
THE SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER
They believe that all saved (born again, from above) people are God's
children and kept by God's power
and are thus secure in Christ forever. Jn. 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Rom.
8:1,39; I Cor. 1:4-8; I Peter 1:5.
THE TWO NATURES Theybelieve that believers in Christ possess two natures,
the old and the new, when they become children of God. The teaching
of eradication of the old nature is not scriptural. Victory is possible
over the old through confession of known sin, Bible study, prayer
and complete dependence upon the spirit of God. Rom. 8:12-13; Gal. 5:16;
Eph. 4:22-24; Col. 3:9-10; I Peter 1:4.
THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST They believe in that blessed hope, the
personal, imminent pre-millineal coming of the Lord Jesus Christ
for His redeemed ones and in His subsequent return to earth with His saints
to establish His millenial kingdom. I Thes. 4:13-18; Zech. 14:4-11;
Rev. 19;11-16; 20:1-6.
THE ETERNAL STATE They believe in a radical and essential difference
between the righteous and the wicked in their eternal state. (A.) They
believe the souls of the redeemed are, at death, absent from the body and
present with the Lord and are in conscious bliss as they await the first
resurrection where spirit and soul and body are reunited to be glorified
forever with the Lord. Luke 23:43; Rev. 20:4-6; I Thess. 4:16-17; II Cor.
5:8; Phil. 7:23. (B.) They believe that the souls of unbelievers remain
in conscious misery after death until final judgment at the great white
throne and at the close of the millenium when soul and body are reunited
and cast into the lake of fire NOT TO BE ANNIHILATED but to be punished
forever. Luke 16:19-31; Rev 20:12-15.
I too believe these TRUTHS.
But I won't join a CULT (NO MORE).
Adventism, When you can identify it as CULTIC, your view will be different.
I can tell you that I have visited Baptists churches, and have many good
Baptist friends, but there's nothing that would ever attract me.
Well most Baptist churches I know, are not pefect.
Besides if you find one that is PERFECT for you, don't join, because
once you join, it won't be PERFECT no more.
If I were to consider an alternative to Adventism, I would pick one
of the Sabbath-keeping churches that came out of the worldwide church
of God.
Sabbath-keeping is up to you guys. They do it in ignorance....
But don't get me wrong, I do respect your opinion. You will answer for
your decisions, just like I will answer for mine.
Radek
> They have a history right back to Acts 2:42. Others may claim this, but the
> truth is out there...
>
> Do yourself a favor...investigate it. You will see they are a cult.
DaMao
Radek Dobias wrote:
> PS..you want a TRUE Biblical sound doctrine, Bible believing belief system
> to join? May I suggest a Baptist Church!
Baptist church?
I can tell you that I have visited Baptists churches, and have many good
Baptist friends, but there's nothing that would ever attract me.
If I were to consider an alternative to Adventism, I would pick one
of the Sabbath-keeping churches that came out of the worldwide church
of God.
But don't get me wrong, I do respect your opinion. You will answer for
DaMao
doctor...@my-deja.com
forgot to use the spell checker on the message.
Thanks for the correction
DW4
P.S. I didn't spell chek ths iethre. ;-)
pto...@attglobal.net
Here is my support. I appreciate what you wrote and am glad God has used
you to His glory. I think it is time to either be positive and speak about
the good, or just leave this ng. We need to avoid those who would want to
draw us into defensive arguments and just praise God.
Paul
Eldorado
"DaMao" wrote...
> Here is an outline of "most" Baptist belief's.
> SCRIPTURE
> They believe the complete Old and New Testaments of the Bible to be
> verbally inspired of God and divinely preserved, without
> error, in the original writings (autographs); that these are the final and
> supreme authority of God for faith and life in the local church. II Tim
3:16;
> John 5:39; II Peter 1:21; Rom. 15:4; Rev. 22:19
Without bringing comment on the authority of the scriptures, both OT and NT,
and without commenting on the balance of the stated Baptist beliefs, I would
like to point out that the above is quite impossible. The autographs do not
exist for any book of the bible, or at least no one is in possession of them
(so they may be in jars of clay somewhere -- who knows?).
Therefore, while it is one thing to suppose that the autographs would have
been perfect according to God's will, it is another thing altogether to
claim such knowledge in any kind of authoritative manner. One may choose to
accept on faith that the accuracy of the translations rendered in modern
times (ie, the past 1000+ years) are protected by God's watchkeeping, but
until an autograph surfaces such faith cannot be proven.
Eldorado
<doctor...@my-deja.com> wrote...
> Thanks, I really do have a problem with spelling when I'm tired and I
> forgot to use the spell checker on the message.
>
> Thanks for the correction
>
> DW4
>
> P.S. I didn't spell chek ths iethre. ;-)
You are very welcome. Actually, there is an interesting twist to your slip,
in that the emersion of the newborn Christian is as important as the
immersion of the old sinful self.
And keep in mind: Pobody's nerfect.
DaMao
Eldorado wrote:
> "DaMao" wrote...
> > Here is an outline of "most" Baptist belief's.
> > SCRIPTURE
> > They believe the complete Old and New Testaments of the Bible to be
> > verbally inspired of God and divinely preserved, without
> > error, in the original writings (autographs); that these are the final and
> > supreme authority of God for faith and life in the local church. II Tim
> 3:16;
> > John 5:39; II Peter 1:21; Rom. 15:4; Rev. 22:19
>
Russell
While many churches have long calls for repentence (sometimes
good sometimes not) Adventist churches will have the rare
appeal.
If you are uncomfortable around the pastor then check for one of the
deacons or elders of the church. They can also work with you and
get you the information you need.
I also understand the tobacco problem. That habit is one of
the most difficult to get rid of. Caffene is another. Check with
your local church or Dorcas Society and see when they are
going to have the next 5 day stop smoking clinic. They do work
and if you have connection with Jesus, they work all the better.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
God's richest blessings to you,
Russell G
jhl...@webtv.net wrote in message
<3485-38C...@storefull-166.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Eldorado
"DaMao" wrote...
> Eldorado...I like to listen to Jars of Clay..don't you?
:-) Not really my style, but my wife and kids do. Point of Grace is my
wife's favorite, though. I lean a bit more to the southern gospel styles. I
pay so little attention to the artists, however, that I will hear a song on
the radio but have no idea who performs it. Which makes purchasing CDs a bit
difficult. I know they're out there, but just who are they?!
Radek Dobias
> Why not, they are closest to any TRUTH out there today.
I strongly disagree.
> THE SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER
> They believe that all saved (born again, from above) people are God's
> children and kept by God's power
> and are thus secure in Christ forever. Jn. 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Rom.
> 8:1,39; I Cor. 1:4-8; I Peter 1:5.
There is no such thing. I have spoken to many Baptists, and they simply
could not reconcile that with the notion of free will. Parables of Lord
Jesus Christ deny the teaching of once saved, always saved.
> Adventism, When you can identify it as CULTIC, your view will be
> different.
Well, depends on your definition of cultic. But my relationship is with
Jesus Christ. Not with corporate church organizations of men, that are
run by men and controlled by men.
> Well most Baptist churches I know, are not pefect.
I never required perfection. What I am interested in are open hearts and
minds. People who are not afraid to yield to the Spirit, when sin is
exposed in their heart. (this is what we must all do)
> Sabbath-keeping is up to you guys. They do it in ignorance....
??
> > > Do yourself a favor...investigate it. You will see they are a
> > cult.
?? I never claimed that they are not. And it doesn't bother me.
Good day.
Radek Dobias
John Weatherly
Remember when Peter was at the home of Cornelius? He was on the roof
sleeping, when the Lord lowered the sheet with all the various food
animals on it. Peter saw animals that he considered "unclean", such as
pigs. God commanded, "kill and eat". Peter objected, "No, Lord, I
can't take anything unclean!" God said, "don't call unclean that which
I, your God, have cleansed." (This applied to food, and it applied to
Gentiles. Because Peter was then called to preach to the Gentiiles.
And may I ask, what attracts you to the SDAs? They focus on the law,
not on God's love.
John
john_wea...@yahoo.com
comments welcome/spams,flames ignored
dow
> There is no such thing. I have spoken to many Baptists, and they simply
> could not reconcile that with the notion of free will. Parables of Lord
> Jesus Christ deny the teaching of once saved, always saved.
Romans 8:35-39 says: "Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will
tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril,
or sword? Just as it is written, 'FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH
ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED.' But in all
these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am
convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor
things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor
any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God,
which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Since it is God's will that the Son lose none of those that were given to
Him, the believer can be sure that He will successfully guard him from the
attempts of Satan to destroy him and separate him from God. 2 Timothy 1:12
says, "For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for
I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what
I have entrusted to Him until that day."
Sometimes people say that God would definitely like to make our ultimate
salvation a certainty but that He is not able to because that would
interfere with our so-called free will. But the Bible teaches that He is
able. Jude 24-25 reaffirms this when it says, "Now to Him who is able to
keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory
blameless with great joy, to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ
our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now
and forever. Amen." This passage does not teach that God is able to keep us
from stumbling and stand blameless before Him if we continue to do our part,
for then, salvation would be dependent on our own ability, our own efforts.
No, it is God who keeps the believer from stumbling; it is God who makes him
to stand before Him justified.
There are several doctrines which prove Perseverance of the Saints. One of
them is Predestination. The Bible teaches that God predestines certain
people to be saved. Ephesians 1:5 says that "He predestined us to adoption
as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of
His will " To be adopted as a son is to be saved. God also predestines us to
be conformed to the image of Christ. Now, everyone whom God predestines to
be saved and conformed to Christ's image will eventually be glorified in
heaven. Romans 8:30 says that "these whom He predestined, He also called;
and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He
also glorified." Here we see that predestination is an unbroken golden
chain. Paul says that the ones who get predestined are the ones who get
called. The ones who get called are the ones who get justified. The ones who
get justified are the ones who get glorified. If you get the first part of
salvation you get it all. It is an unbreakable chain. All those who get the
first part of salvation get the last. All those whom God predestined to be
saved will be glorified in the end. And how could it be otherwise? How could
the Sovereign God predestine a thing to occur and it not occur? It is
impossible!
"After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who
called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm,
strengthen and establish you." (1 Peter 5:10) We truly are saved by grace
through faith, and that not of ourselves, for it is the gift of God, lest
anyone should boast. We have no reason to boast about anything. Not even for
making a decision for Christ. We serve a gracious and merciful God who chose
us before the foundation of the world; who shed His precious blood which
covered our sins; who changed our hearts so that we would willingly serve
Him for all of eternity; who gave us the faith we need; and who holds us in
His hand now and forever. To Him be all glory and praise forever and ever!
tulipBee
optyk
optyk
>And may I ask, what attracts you to the SDAs? They focus on the
law,
>not on God's love.
What a bunch of bs. You just made a false generalization which
has no basis. Forgive my crude language but that is what it is.
You cant be saved if you don't love [Christ] God. Jesus said
"if you love me you will keep My [God] commandments."
Do you love Jesus [God]?
doctor...@my-deja.com
John Weatherly <john_wea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why would you give up pork?
> Remember when Peter was at the home of Cornelius? He was on the roof
> sleeping, when the Lord lowered the sheet with all the various food
> animals on it. Peter saw animals that he considered "unclean", such as
> pigs. God commanded, "kill and eat". Peter objected, "No, Lord, I
> can't take anything unclean!" God said, "don't call unclean that which
> I, your God, have cleansed." (This applied to food, and it applied to
> Gentiles. Because Peter was then called to preach to the Gentiiles.
>
> not on God's love.
>
Obviously John, you know very little of the Adventist faith and even
fewer Adventists. The main focus of all Adventist is God's love. Stop
by one of our churchs and talk to the people you may find it very
enlightening.
DW4
> John
> john_wea...@yahoo.com
> comments welcome/spams,flames ignored
>
> Wed, 15 Mar 2000 14:45:27 -0500 (EST), jhl...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> >I was wandering how do you join the church . I like the SDA very much
> >but don't know how to join it. I go to a church but they don't seem
to
> >have a call at the end of church for anyone who wants to be a
member. I
> >gave up eatting pork severl weeks ago. but can't seem to give up my
> >tobacco.
>
>
Radek Dobias
parable of Matthew 18. The destiny of the unforgiving servant was
established by his own decision. He wasn't predestined for anything by
the "king" (God). He cherished unforgiving spirit and that made him LOSE
his salvation. His salvation depended only on his decision, with regard
to his attitude and love towards others.
You quote Romans 8. Yes, who indeed would separate ANYONE from the love
of Christ. Perhaps those who say that one is predestined to be lost.
Radek
dow
> "if you love me you will keep My [God] commandments."
> Do you love Jesus [God]?
You're saved when God CHOOSES you to be saved. NOT you. You can OBEY the law
all you want since you hope that God will choose you as result that you
followed the law and loved Jesus on your own.
Even though free and uncoerced, the fallen will has no desire for anything
except to indulge the evil tendencies of the heart. As long as a person is
inclined only to evil, he chooses only evil. Fallen humanity loves darkness
and hates light. So whenever a person is confronted with a choice between
darkness and light, he chooses darkness. He chooses what is attractive to
him, what his free will desires. John 3:19-20 says: "This is the judgment,
that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather
than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates
the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be
exposed." A person always chooses according to his inclination. Every member
of the human race is bonded to choose what he loves. Where is the bondage in
choosing what we want? The bondage comes in the result of the sin he loves,
the consequences of which he does not like. In sin, we may get what we want,
but we do not want what we get. The sinner wants to live forever. He wants
joy, love, peace, but only on his terms rather than God's. The sinner seeks
these things, yet hates righteousness. Zechariah 1:3 says: "Therefore say to
them, Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Return to Me," declares the LORD of
hosts, "that I may return to you," says the LORD of hosts.'" Commenting on
this verse, the great reformer Martin Luther said, "It is not in your power
to turn to God. If you think that it is in your power to turn to God you
have missed the whole Reformation and don't understand total depravity. It
is not in your power to turn to God. You are a sinner, you're dead, you're
eaten up with corruption. Every free choice of yours is evil and not good.
So how can we turn to Him who is light, righteousness, holy and good?" Since
all of us are sinners, we have a duty to return to God, but we are unable to
do so. We simply do not have the ability. Because we are responsible for our
sins before God and are commanded by Him to return to Him in repentance does
not mean that we have the natural ability to do so.
Perseverance of the Saints first needs to be properly understood. This
doctrine does not mean that all those who merely appear to have faith (i.e.,
said a certain prayer, walked down the church isle, joined a church, were
baptized, etc.) will be kept by God and will therefore persevere to the end.
There are many people who profess to be believers but then later fall away.
Instead, Perseverance of the Saints means that all those who have a genuine
faith in Christ will be kept by God forever and will persevere to the end.
There are many professing Christians who trust in their own works, goodness,
merits for their salvation. These people are trusting in their own
"righteousness, instead of Jesus' blood, and do not have true faith in Jesus
Christ. Therefore, later on they may get discouraged and decide to leave the
faith and no longer be a Christian. This does not prove that they were saved
and then lost their salvation, but simply that they deserted the Christian
religion because they had only a said faith rather than a genuine one. The
Apostle John clearly described such people in 1 John 2:19. Speaking of some
who had renounced the Christian religion and had become anti-Christ, he
said, "They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they
had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that
it would be shown that they all are not of us. " It is clear from this
passage that those who profess faith in Christ and appear to be true
believers, and yet later fall away, were never really a part of God's people
in the first place.
tulipBee
pto...@attglobal.net
you are wasting your time though because there is a prejudgement combined
with a deep ignorance of what SDA'a believe in these type of posts. Its
like mud-wrestling with a pig, you both just get mudy and the pig likes it.
:-)
Sincerely,
Paul
tulipBee
> Predestination is plainly false.
Human curiosity renders the discussion of predestination, already somewhat
difficult of itself, very confusing and even dangerous. [Therefore] if
anyone with carefree assurance breaks into this place, he will not succeed
in satisfying his curiosity and he will enter a labyrinth from which he can
find no exit.
The Word of the Lord is the sole way that can lead us in our search or all
that it is lawful to hold concerning him, and is the sole light to illumine
our vision of all that we should see of him, it will readily keep and
restrain us from all rashness; Let this, therefore, first of all be before
our eyes: to seek any other knowledge of predestination than what the Word
of God discloses is not less insane than if one should purpose to walk in a
pathless waste, or to see in darkness.
Whoever, then, heaps odium upon the doctrine of predestination openly
reproaches God, as if he had unadvisedly let slip something hurtful to the
church.
tulipBee
sims...@my-deja.com
do those of "dow" below. The bible teaches plainly we are
predestined. But, unlike dow's statment of it, predestination is not a
declaration of God that we will do it. It simply means that we are
created to do his will. But, we are also created in carnal form.
Thus, it is up to us to follow that predestination. Thus, is
highlighted what you call "free will".
I notice he/she referred to Eph. 1: 5 below, as a proof of our required
adherence to that predestination, wherein he/she said [start quote]"To
be adopted as a son is to be saved. God also predestines us to be
conformed to the image of Christ. Now, everyone whom God predestines to
be saved and conformed to Christ's image will eventually be glorified
in heaven. Romans 8:30 says that "these whom He predestined, He also
called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He
justified, He also glorified." Here we see that predestination is an
unbroken golden chain." [End quote]
Look at what Eph. 1 does say, including the verse "dow" referenced to
prove we are predestined forever; and can do nothing else; but what is
predestined for us. You will clearly "dow's" statement false.
Ephesians 1:4-12
4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Look how verse 5 is prefaced by 4. It says we were chosen before the
world began to ***be holy and without blame***. We weren't made that
way by his death. We were predestined by his will to be this type
person. Yet, this whorish doctrine of "Predestination" as they call it
has nothing to do with our predestination. For it allows them to live
like whores, concerning Christ, while making them think they are
themselves righteous.
5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus
Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
They think this makes us children of God by Jesus. Yet, John 1:12 says
he gave us the ***power*** to ***become***. He did not make us so.
Rather, he not only predestined that we should be this; but he gave us
the power to do it. He did not made us that already, allowing us to
live the life of the whore. Doing as we wish, somehow assured that we
can't die because his predestination of us, somehow made us beyond his
judgment.
11. In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated
according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the
counsel of his own will:
12. That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted
in Christ.
Notice verse 11 shows that being predestinated, we were done so
according to the purpose of God. What is that purpose? That we obey
the commands of Jesus. That is, to love our neighbour as ourself; and
God with all our heart, mind and soul. Yet, they turn it to mean we go
to heaven regardless of what we might have done. Thus, they live and
breathe Rom. 8:29-39 while abhoring Rom. 8:1-14. Yet, they think this
splitting of scripture is justified, for surely, they could not be
wrong, could they? They have the teachings of their friend Calvin,
don't they? Surely, his word overrides any scripture?
So, Radek, you too, are mistaken when you say "Predestination is
plainly false." Yet, I think you mean their doctrine of the same name,
which surely is false. For what you say about Matt. 18 is surely
true. Therefore, even when your statement is not correct, your intent
is true.
Peace to you, Radek
Allan Sims