What does "saved" mean?
Donna Kupp
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be
saved." Romans 10:13
Does the word saved mean "receive eternal life"? That is the
concept that is taught by Modern Christianity. Is it true?
The word saved means "delivered or protect". Thayers lexicon
gives this as the primary meaning: 1) to save, keep safe and sound,
to rescue from danger or destruction.
All men are condemned to death because all have sinned. But
whosoever will call upon the name - the power and authority of
Jesus will be rescued and delivered from the kingdom of Satan so
they may repent and become the children of God.
To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
are saved do not have eternal life - but they can - if they will
continue on to true repentance. That is why Paul wrote:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my
presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your
own salvation with fear and trembling." Phi 2:12
Being saved leads to salvation and receiving eternal life. And how
does one inherit eternal life?
"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
commandments." Mat 19:17
There can be no question which commandments Jesus meant
because he referred directly to the ten commandments!
We cannot be saved from the clutches of sin and Satan by any
power of our own - only by the grace of God which comes through
believing in Jesus.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Eph 2:8
Those who receive Jesus are given the power to become the
children of God - that power is the grace of God. They are not born
of God until they come to true repentance.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become
children of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John
1:12
"But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Mat 24:13
To be saved we must endure to the end (Greek "goal reached") The
goal of those who believe in Jesus is to repent of sin and become
the children of God - those who are born of God.
To be saved is the first step in the process of receiving eternal
life.
One can easily see the confusion in peoples minds if they are
taught that to be saved means to receive eternal life.
Harold Kupp
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
duke
>What does "saved" mean?
>
>"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be
>saved." Romans 10:13
There you go. "From the fires of hell".
>Does the word saved mean "receive eternal life"? That is the
>concept that is taught by Modern Christianity. Is it true?
>The word saved means "delivered or protect". Thayers lexicon
>gives this as the primary meaning: 1) to save, keep safe and sound,
>to rescue from danger or destruction.
>
>All men are condemned to death because all have sinned. But
>whosoever will call upon the name - the power and authority of
>Jesus will be rescued and delivered from the kingdom of Satan so
>they may repent and become the children of God.
>To be saved is the first step in the process of salvation. Those who
>are saved do not have eternal life - but they can - if they will
>continue on to true repentance. That is why Paul wrote:
No, saved = salvation = one. But protest_ants, in particular, tend to use the
word "saved" as accepting Christ as savior. Now whether your future life style
as a "Christian" is in line with the teachings and expectations of the Lord is
another issue.
>"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my
>presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your
>own salvation with fear and trembling." Phi 2:12
>Being saved leads to salvation and receiving eternal life. And how
>does one inherit eternal life?
Jesus decides.
>"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none
>good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the
>commandments." Mat 19:17
>There can be no question which commandments Jesus meant
>because he referred directly to the ten commandments!
>We cannot be saved from the clutches of sin and Satan by any
>power of our own - only by the grace of God which comes through
>believing in Jesus.
Actually you can, and must. YOU must turn away from the sin. And only YOU can
do that. And with Jesus's call to you. He doesn't turn you around. YOU must
do that YOURSELF.
>"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
>yourselves: it is the gift of God:" Eph 2:8
>
>Those who receive Jesus are given the power to become the
>children of God - that power is the grace of God. They are not born
>of God until they come to true repentance.
>
>"But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become
>children of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John
>1:12
>
>"But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Mat 24:13
>
>To be saved we must endure to the end (Greek "goal reached") The
>goal of those who believe in Jesus is to repent of sin and become
>the children of God - those who are born of God.
>
>To be saved is the first step in the process of receiving eternal
>life.
>One can easily see the confusion in peoples minds if they are
>taught that to be saved means to receive eternal life.
It's not. YOU must endure to the end.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Randy ®
and presence (Romans 8) of our sin. All of these occur by grace,
through faith in Christ, not as a result of human merit. God,
being sovereign, has already glorified those whom he justified
(Romans 8), so salvation is eternally secured through faith in
Christ, before every aspect of deliverance has been experienced
by an individual.
When Jesus confronted the rich young ruler, and told him to keep
the commandments, he was simply using the Law as a mirror to
expose the man's sin, because the man, like many heretics in this
group, thought he was keeping the Law and achieving his own
righteousness. As a result of hearing the instruction to sell
all and give to the poor, the man went way grieved, because he
wanted to hang on to his possessions. Thus the Law achieved it's
purpose in exposing the man's sin. As Paul confirms in Galatians
3, the Law is a "tutor" to lead men to Christ, so they may be
justified by faith.
Thus, the purpose of the Law is not so men can achieve their own
righteousness and boast before God, but so they see themselves as
falling short of God's righteousness, and in need of Christ's
atonement.
Passages that say things like, "he who endures to the end shall
be saved", simply observe, from an outward perspective, the fact
that those God has justified through faith, will evidence this by
enduring to the end. It does not mean that they are all
unregenerates, somehow supposedly doing God's will, then being
rewarded with salvation.
Galatians 1:8-9 strongly warns that anyone who promotes a gospel
other than the one of justification by faith in Christ alone,
will be eternally condemned.
--
Have you heard Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him
from the dead? Did you know God saves you from hell and
gives you eternal life through faith in this finished work alone,
not your merits (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess.
1:8-9)? This is so man cannot boast, and God alone gets the
glory (Eph. 2:8-9).
______________________________________________
www.faithguard.org
www.twitter.com/faithguard
www.facebook.com/faithguard
______________________________________________
In My Fathers House
> Salvation is from the penalty (Romans 1 - 5), power (Romans 6),
> and presence (Romans 8) of our sin.
Posts the guy who lies every day. Stop telling lies and then maybe
you would know something about salvation ~from the presence~ of sin.
Till that day you live in sin - trapped in it.
Donna Kupp
"1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
God."
***********************************************************************
The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the
person who is doing it. An old Chinese Proverb
***********************************************************************
Randy ®
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> The apostle John wrote:
>
> "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
> seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
> God."
"Sin" is in the present tense, and means we don't keep on
practicing the same sin, habitually, not that we never sin again.
> ***********************************************************************
> The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the
> person who is doing it. An old Chinese Proverb
> ***********************************************************************
Is this not Donna claiming to be without sin? If so, what does
this verse say?
1 John 1:8 NIV
(8) If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the
truth is not in us.
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
:
So are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
Pastor Dave
<gabriel...@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
Donna is too easy! :) Quote certain passages to her
and she disappears! No lie! :)
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 3:7,10,12
7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O GENERATION of vipers, who hath
warned YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.
Michael Christ
Donna wrote:
> : The apostle John wrote:
> :
> : "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
> : seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
> : God."
Gabriel wrote:
> So are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
That is exactly what the verse is saying! It cannot be clearer!
But you in your sin and looking through a glass darkly decides that the
verse says something else.
Michael Christ
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Firstly, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ...a Person.
:
: Donna wrote:
: > : The apostle John wrote:
: > :
: > : "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
: > : seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
: > : God."
:
: Gabriel wrote:
: > So are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
:
: That is exactly what the verse is saying! It cannot be clearer!
So are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being
saved?
:
: But you in your sin and looking through a glass darkly decides that the
Michael Christ
>> The apostle John wrote:
>>
>> "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
>> seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
>> God."
Randy wrote:
> "Sin" is in the present tense, and means we don't keep on practicing the
> same sin, habitually,
What a white wash that is, and what a load of religious dung.
Randy wrote:
>not that we never sin again.
All you are doing is twisting the scripture to try and justify yourself as
you are.
The scripture says 'does not' and 'cannot', it isn't changed to 'sometimes
sin' because you haven't given your life to a worthy God.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
>Firstly, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ...a Person.
Donna wrote:
>The apostle John wrote:
>"1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
>seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
>God."
Gabriel wrote:
>So are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
Michael Christ wrote:
>That is exactly what the verse is saying! It cannot be clearer!
>But you in your sin and looking through a glass darkly decides that the
>verse says something else.Gabriel wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
> So are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being
> saved?
How on earth are you supposed to understand that answer being blind??!!
If you say you are in Christ and sin, you are saying Jesus sins.
Since Jesus does not sin, you are not in Christ.
Just what part of this Bible verse do you not understand, Gabriel???
"1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
God."
Please tell me. It is not going to do you any good trying to judge me, that
is not your role.
A person that sins and says they are in Christ is declaring in spiritual
places that Jesus is a sinner. How can anyone not understand that??
The problem with you and Randy, and God knows who else, is that you lack
faith.
Michael Christ
Randy ®
Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> Firstly, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ...a Person.
And faith in Christ comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of
God (Romans 10:17).
> Donna wrote:
>> : The apostle John wrote:
>> :
>> : "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
>> : seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
>> : God."
>
> Gabriel wrote:
>> So are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
>
> That is exactly what the verse is saying! It cannot be clearer!
No it isn't. Commit "sin" is in the present tense not aorist
tense, meaning we don't keep on practicing the sin habitually,
not that our sin nature was eradicated, which Romans 8 plainly
says won't happen till glory. Even the context of 1 John makes
that clear.
1 John 1:8 NASB
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves
and the truth is not in us.
You: I have not sinned.
God's word: You deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.
> But you in your sin and looking through a glass darkly decides that the
> verse says something else.
And here's the pompous arrogance the hypocrite accuses others of.
He's without sin, and anyone who claims otherwise is too
blinded by their sin to know what the Bible means.
On the contrary. 1 John 1:8 indicates Michael is the one walking
in the darkness of his self-deceit.
Randy ®
Michael Christ <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
> Just what part of this Bible verse do you not understand, Gabriel???
>
> "1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
> seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
> God."
The part where you try to turn the present tense into the aorist
tense. "Commit sin" is in the present, not aorist tense. That
means it's not talking about someone never committing sin at any
point in time, but that they won't keep on practicing the sin
habitually.
Romans 7 - 8 makes it clear that the sin nature remains with the
believer until God redeems his body in glory (Romans 8). The
context of 1 John also says:
1 John 1:8 NASB
(8) If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves
and the truth is not in us.
You: I have no sin.
God: You are self deceived and the truth is not in you.
Any questions?
Michael Christ
Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Randy.
With God, all things are possible, with Randy...well...
Michael Christ
"Randy �" <pulpi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4budne4DgLhxRJXW...@giganews.com...
Michael Christ
>> Firstly, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ...a Person.
Randy wrote:
> And faith in Christ comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God
> (Romans 10:17).
Then you haven't heard.
He is the Word of God.
Its relationship, not theology. You have to let go of the schoolmaster (the
ground/grounding) to fly like an eagle on the wind (Spirit of God). The
Wind blows here and there, and is not subject to leaning on your
understanding or your brilliant "I am sinner" glass darkly biblical
exegesis, Randy.
Michael Christ
grumpy
(NOTHING.)
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
:
You didn't answer the question.
Are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being
saved?
:
:
: Michael Christ
:
:
:
:
:
duke
>The apostle John wrote:
>
>"1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his
>seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of
>God."
And the only one like that is Jesus Christ. Heb 4:15.
duke
She only means "saved" as professing belief in Christ. Jesus said he'd decide
our final fate at our moment of judgment. Mat 25:31-46.
Not that he doesn't already know the answer. He already knows the status of our
soul when we die. But we don't. Live carefully, live wisely.
Pastor Dave
<gabriel...@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
The sign of those absorbed with themselves, folks.
And Gabriel is right and smart to keep the subject
in focus and not allow Mikey's distractions.
You see, if you don't agree with them, then of course,
you are blind and so, how could you understand? So
it is your fault, because "you just don't understand the
Bible". Translation: If you don't agree with me, then
you work for Satan.
Let us not refer to Acts 17:10-12, in which Paul says
that it must be found in Scripture, or it is not so and
that those who do that, are "more noble" for doing so.
Rather, according to Mickey and his ilk, we must dismiss
that idea and just believe him/them, or we work for Satan.
--
Pastor Dave
The following is part of my auto-rotating
sig file and not part of the message body.
Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you
is determinism; the way you play it is free will.
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pfdig5dulfmctcv5t...@4ax.com...
The question is redundant. It's dead.
Jesus took away the sin of the world, there is no debt anymore. Don't you
believe that?
It is not about what you have done, it is about what you haven't done.
The question is do you want Him or don't you?? And if you do, it must be
with all your heart, soul and mind, or the answer is no.
You can't win because the Lord Jesus Christ has won; its finished. Choose.
:-).
Michael Christ
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
: "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
You still didn't answer the question.
Michael Christ
> You still didn't answer the question.
> Are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being saved?
The answer that you are going to get...has been giveneth.
:-).
Michael Christ
Donna Kupp
I am referring you to todays post: Salvation is a Spiritual Journey
with the hope that it will answer your questions. I do not knowingly
disobey God. When the Holy Spirit shows me that I have made an error,
I confess it and forsake it. That is what is called "walking in the
light".
Donna
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
: Donna to Gabriel and Michael,
You continue to avoid answering the question. What you refer to
does not answer the question.
So again, are you claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
Donna Kupp
Donna writes:
Have you read Deception #3 at this web-site? We need to be working
with the same definitions before we can understand each other.
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Donna
Michael Christ
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:76bb2a85-32c5-4763...@a10g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
No no no Donna, you must kneel and surrender to Gabriel's all knowing
understanding and his perfection, for all things ebb and flow through him
and his glory.
Plus...he's a Baptist. :-).
Michael Christ
Donna Kupp
Good evening Michael
Sometimes, it gets hard to communicate because people are not using
the
same definitions. That is why my husband and I have taken so much
time to
write articles that define words according to the scriptures.
Harold established this website a few years ago:
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
It represents years of research and study --and it is free to anyone
who is interested.
This year, I have been compiling essays that have been written over
the years regarding a variety of subjects. They needed to be
organized so that they can be located easily.
and I am sharing them here:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
Until communications are established with individuals, through common
definitions, I am not going to answer questions like: "Are you
claiming you have not sinned since being saved?"
The person who is asking the question could be referring to committing
murder, eating a a piece of chocolate cake, wearing jewelry -- or a
temptation that comes into my mind.
I do what I can to explain things; but I can't give understanding.
Someone once said that a mind is like a parachute --neither of them
work unless they are open. I just pray that all of us will have open
minds as we search for the Father's truth with all our hearts.
Donna
Randy ®
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
No one needs to take your seven step course in eternal damnation.
You proclaim a false gospel that is soundly refuted by
Galatians. Salvation is not a reward for man's merits, but God's
sovereign gracious, unmerited favor towards undeserving sinners.
Michael Christ
Good evening Michael
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
Hi Donna,
Don't worry about Gabriel's question, it is asked with the wrong spirit; a
spirit of condemnation. And as you correctly infer the mind is closed. All
he is doing is trying to 'baptise' you into death.
I will have a look at your writings but we may clash when it comes to the
issue of the law but I promise I won't be calling you an idiot, a fool,
Satan and goodness knows what else those good sinner Christians like to
offer up in their glory. :-).
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
> On Mon, 11/23/09, at 9:03:29PM,
> Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Donna writes:
>>
>> Have you read Deception #3 at this web-site? We need to be working
>> with the same definitions before we can understand each other.
>>
>> The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
>> http://www.freetruth.info
>>
>> Donna
Randy wrote:
> No one needs to take your seven step course in eternal damnation. You
> proclaim a false gospel that is soundly refuted by Galatians. Salvation
> is not a reward for man's merits, but God's sovereign gracious, unmerited
> favor towards undeserving sinners.
All the theology, none of the Christ likeness.
Go away.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
Donna Kupp
Good morning Michael,
I so appreciate your good-will toward me. Thank you.
Donna
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
Yes, that is clearly a sin.
Exodus 20:13 KJV
13 Thou shalt not kill.
: eating a a piece of chocolate cake, wearing jewelry --
So you believe eating a piece of chocolate cake or wearing a
piece of jewelry is a sin?
If you believe it is a sin, then for you personally at the
moment, it would be a sin:
Romans 14:21-23 KJV
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any
thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made
weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he
that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth
not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
: or a
: temptation that comes into my mind.
A temptation (not to be confused with lust, which Jesus pointed
out separately as a sin) is not a sin until we act upon it.
:
: I do what I can to explain things; but I can't give understanding.
: Someone once said that a mind is like a parachute --neither of them
: work unless they are open. I just pray that all of us will have open
: minds as we search for the Father's truth with all our hearts.
I expounded before on the types of sins when asking the question,
but you didn't respond to it.
So, are you claiming you have not disobeyed
- any of the 10 commandments,
- the commandment to love God with all your heart, soul, mind
and strength,
- to love your neighbor as yourself, to live Godly,
- that you always had faith that what you were about to do was
not a sin (Rom 14:21-23 above)?
You've lived that perfect life since being saved without any of
those sins?
:
: Donna
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
God defined sin quite clearly in the Bible:
1 John 3:4 KJV
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin
is the transgression of the law.
:
: The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
: http://www.freetruth.info
:
: Donna
Randy ®
gabriel <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> God defined sin quite clearly in the Bible:
>
> 1 John 3:4 KJV
> 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin
> is the transgression of the law.
Correct. I also like Romans 3:23, "all have sinned, and fall
short of the glory of God". Sin is anything that fails to
reflect God's glory.
Donna Kupp
> > God defined sin quite clearly in the Bible:
>
> > 1 John 3:4 KJV
> > 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin
> > is the transgression of the law.
>
> Correct. I also like Romans 3:23, "all have sinned, and fall
> short of the glory of God". Sin is anything that fails to
> reflect God's glory.
Dear Reader,
I refer you to this mornings post: THE DEFINITION OF SIN.
Now, I will refer you to this verse the will show you your whole duty
to God:
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep
his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall
bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be
good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
Donna Kupp
I
> Sin is anything that fails to reflect God's glory.
... such as Randy Young's posts.
--
A Trew Kristyun is a deranged individual living in the current
Fundamentalist Dark Age who believes:
- The One God Yahweh is really three gods.
- Jesus, a finite Jew from Nazareth, is the infinite One God Yahweh
- A human sacrifice was required by God because God needs blood, gore and
guts in order to forgive sins.
- The Bible, a collection of fallible ancient Near Eastern books / letters /
myths, is "God's word" and inerrant
Donna Kupp
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I
make thine enemies thy footstool." Psalms 110:1
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a
name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every
knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and
things under the earth;" Philippians 2:9-10
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