Homosexuality (Topical Bible Message)
Bible John
or not?
Homosexuality is one of the many heated and controversial debates in our
society. The church seems to be divided on its views of homosexuality.
Many liberal denominations are very openly embracing homosexuality,
while many conservatives are not. There are of coarse different extremes
between the protestant liberal and conservative denominations regarding
Homosexuality. Some churches would ordain homosexuals into the ministry,
while on the opposite extreme there are churches that would never allow
a homosexual to enter the church.
Iąm sure you all have read stories of hate acts against homosexuals by
some so-called Christian pastors. Fred Phelps is a very well known
infamous Baptist pastor who preaches a message of hate geared at
homosexuals. Heąs no doubt the biggest anti-homosexual advocate in the
world.
Pastor Fred Phelps
http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/phelpsbio.html
Its tragic that Fred does not know the gospel according to Jesus,
because if he did he would have read the verse that says to love your
neighbor as yourself (Matt. 22:39 And the second is like it: ŚLove your
neighbor as yourself.ą).
Many follow Fredąs damming ways, and sadly many will join him in hell.
But my prayer is that Fred and his followers repent of their wickedness.
Because of Fredąs example and poor representation of Christians I can
understand why many homosexuals are hostile towards us, and I really do
not blame them.
Like Fred Phelps I am also a conservative Baptist and staunch Calvinist.
I may not be 5 point, but I see homosexuality from the same lens as
Pastor Fred, but the difference between us is our approach to the issue.
Pastor Fred may read this bible message, and I want him to know that I
do not hate him, I only love him, but hate his hypocrisy and
misrepresentation of Christ, which I only will say after using the bible
as my authority. Those that misrepresent Christ in such a way are surely
the church of Satan, and will go into hell before the Mormons, JWąs,
Oneness Pentecostals, Word of Faith heretics, and other such cults
sadly. But Lord willing hopefully many will repent and turn towards the
light.
Lets look at what the bible teaches on homosexuality
From the Old Testament
Lev. 18:22 ¶ "ŚDo not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is
detestable.
Lev. 20:13 ¶ "ŚIf a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both
of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their
blood will be on their own heads.
So you see in the OT homosexuality was clearly a very serious sin that
had very serious and yet swift consequences. Back in these dayąs sin
like this was dealt with very quick and swift. One way that people would
be put to death was by stoning. No quick and easy death like what may be
experienced by those who are put to death in our society.
Some will read this and ask me why homosexuality is so severe, and why
is it more so of a sin than the many other sins listed in Moses law?
This is a fair question which I will answer by first stating that
homosexuality is a "transcendent" sin, and seems to be such a sin before
and after Moses law. We all know the story of Lot, and how the angels
had to blind the homosexuals who attempted to have sex with them. In
Sodom there were many homosexuals, so many that God had to destroy the
city. Homosexuality was serious before Moses law.
Second do know that homosexuality is mentioned many times in the NT
which would be after Moses law while many of the Moral and Civil laws in
Moses law are not. For example the many kosher laws were abolished by
Christ, as well as the 7th day Sabbath. The new Sabbath was changed from
Saturday to Sunday, in celebration of Jesusąs resurrection from the dead.
NIV
1Cor. 6:9 ¶ Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom
of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters
nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
1Cor. 6:10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor
swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cor. 6:11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you
were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
and by the Spirit of our God.
KJV
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor
extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified,
but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of
our God.
Some KJV only advocates will respond and insist that the word
"homosexual" is never mentioned in the bible, and yes this is true, but
only from their point of view. The Greek word used for homosexuals is
"aresenokoites" which is properly translated into homosexuals. The KJV
gets it wrong in the passage above, while the NKJV corrects its mistake
below.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (New King James Version)
9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of
God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the
kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, but
you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NIV
1Tim. 1:9 We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for
lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and
irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
1Tim. 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and
perjurers &endash; and for whatever else is contrary to the sound
doctrine
For some reason the NIV does not use the word "homosexual" in the above
verses. However the NASB does use the "homosexual" word in place of the
NIVąs "perverts." This word is not a common word in the NIV translation,
as its used only once.
Rom. 1:26 ¶ Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even
their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
Rom. 1:27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with
women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed
indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty
for their perversion.
The above scriptures seem to very clearly indicate 3 things.
a) Homosexuality is a sin that will be punished very severely
b) Practicing Homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven
c) There was a time when God got so fed up with the sin of sinners, so
he just allowed the homosexuals and others to continue to live in their
sin, and without any of his providence
Knowing the above to be true, and if you are a conservative evangelical
believing in the "verbal plenary view of interpretation" you will see 2
Tim 3:16 as literal, and will interpret the above verses pertaining to
homosexuality to indicate that this is indeed a very serious sin. But
then how to approach homosexuals is another manor. We cant be like Fred
Phelps, but we can be like Jesus who comes to set the captives free.
Homosexuals are people too and needed to be treated as such. Fred
Phelpsąs divisive unbiblical attitude has led many homosexuals to
believe that all Christians are as hateful towards homosexuals as he is,
which is very far from the truth. Many Christians do not preach a
message of hate towards homosexuals.
I remember once working with a homosexual at a computer sales/support
job I had for summer 2002. Anthony had really experienced nothing but
hatred from so many Christians and Catholics, that he was very skeptical
of me after he learned that I was a saved and sanctified follower of
Jesus. When the due time came for me to leave this job and return back
to school, Anthony told me that I was unlike any Christian he had ever
met. I was not bent on attacking and condemning him, but was very
interested in loving him in the same way that Jesus loves the world.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the
world, but to save the world through him.
So I believe that the only way to approach homosexuals is to love them
as I did with Anthony in 2002. Jesus loved me in such a way (only far
more powerful) and we need to love others likewise.
God bless!
John Wolf
BA Church Education Ministries, Simpson University 2005
AS Business Computer technology specialist, Canada College 2000
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, łI am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
maepe...@gmail.com
concequences of his actions? Were you able to witness to him and
introduce him to Jesus who can set him free from this sin?
If not, then you did not LOVE him but only accepted his sin and signed
his papers to be sent to the lake of fire.
Who will warn them if we don't?
Yes love is the answer but it may not be what you want to hear!
God Bless!
Pastor Dave
thusly:
>With your act of "LOVE" did you Love him enough to warn him of the
>concequences of his actions? Were you able to witness to him and
>introduce him to Jesus who can set him free from this sin?
>
>If not, then you did not LOVE him but only accepted his sin and signed
>his papers to be sent to the lake of fire.
Amen! There just might be another Christian in these here
news groups after all! :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
http://home.tampabay.rr.com/1stcentury
What shall I render to the Lord
for all His benefits toward me?
I will take up the cup of salvation
and call upon the name of the Lord.
- Psalm 116:12-13
• Ninure Saunders
maepe...@gmail.com wrote:
-With your act of "LOVE" did you Love him enough to warn him of the
-concequences of his actions? Were you able to witness to him and
-introduce him to Jesus who can set him free from this sin?
How do you know what that man's actions were?
Who are YOU to condenm him?
And what makes YOUR sins any better than anyone else's? For you do
knowif you are not in complete ineedience to the commands, ALL tthe
coomands of Christ, you are a sinner.
-
-If not, then you did not LOVE him but only accepted his sin and signed
-his papers to be sent to the lake of fire.
-
-Who will warn them if we don't?
Jesus told you took the ;og out of your eye before you worrry about the
speck of dust in someone else's eye, did He not?
-
-Yes love is the answer but it may not be what you want to hear!
It certainly is NOT the answer YOU want to hear!!
Below is a sermon that was given by the Reverent Dr Giles Fraser
(Anglican vicar of Putney and lecturer in philosophy at Wadham
College, Oxford).
=========
"I did not love God and was indignant towards him, if not in wicked
revolt, at least in silent blasphemy." Martin Luther's admission that he
had come to hate God sparked a theological revolution that transformed the
political geography of Europe.
For Luther, service to a God who demanded human beings earn his love had
become service to a heartless despot, impossible to please. The
confessional had become a private hell of never being good enough, of
never earning enough merit to satisfy the unattainable demands required
for salvation.
Luther's deep sense of human inadequacy meant that a God who dealt with
human beings strictly on the basis of merit was always going to be a God
of punishment. He thus came to see his former understanding of
Christianity as inherently abusive, as a destructive cycle in which the
abused child constantly returns to the abusive heavenly father for
comfort.
Parallels with arguments that are now transforming the political geography
of Anglicanism are remarkable. For the debate about homosexuality is about
a great deal more than sex. It is about the nature of God's love for human
beings, and has much in common with debates that drove the Reformation.
The message the church has given to gay Christians is the message Luther
came to see as inherently abusive: God does not love you as you are - you
need to be completely different before he will love you.
Take the Bishop of Chester, Dr Peter Forster's advice that gay Christians
should seek to "reorientate themselves". "I would not set myself up as a
medical specialist on the subject, that's in the area of psychiatric
health," he said. But gay Christians who have tried to become acceptable
to God by subjecting themselves to electric shock therapy, or by being
bombarded with pornography, have been forced into precisely the sort of
private hell Luther experienced in the
confessional.
Luther's theological breakthrough was to describe a wholly non-abusive
God, who loves his children
===========gratuitously - not on the basis of merit. God's love is
experienced as grace, freely given, not as a demand that, in order to be
loved, human beings must become something impossibly different to what
they already are. It was a conception that released Christians from
bondage to a theological construction that made their lives seem as
desperate as a hamster on a wheel.
Against those who would conscript this desperation into financial gain
through the system of indulgences, Luther spoke of Christian freedom and
the Babylonian captivity of the church; against those who would make
sexuality part of a package of guilt and self-disgust, he would renounce
his monasticism by marrying a nun. Ecclesiastical authorities can no more
insist on celibacy than "forbid eating, drinking, the natural movement of
the bowels or growing fat," he declared.
Following Luther, generations of evangelicals described the joy of being
released from the burden of impossible expectations. Remember Charles
Wesley's hymn: "I woke, the dungeon flamed with light/My
chains fell off, my heart was free/I rose, went forth, and followed thee."
The next verse begins: "No condemnation now I dread."
Being saved is evangelical language for describing the new life beyond
the censure of an abusive God - the sense of facing the truth, of
admitting it to others, of being accepted as one is, of being released
from the burden of impossible condemnation. Being saved is an experience
emotionally identical to coming out of the closet.
This is not political correctness. It is about the nature of God. For the
one thing all Christians believe about God is that he seeks to call us out
of darkness into light, out of pain into joy, out of deceit into truth,
out of oppression into freedom. Amazingly, Gloria Gaynor's gay anthem - "I
am what I am, and what I am needs no excuses" - turns out to be the
contemporary voice of Luther's own protest: "Here I am, I can do no
other."
===============
--
Pax Christi,
• Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
Jesus is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
markwise
· Ninure Saunders wrote:
> -Who will warn them if we don't?
>
> Jesus told you took the ;og out of your eye before you worrry about the
> speck of dust in someone else's eye, did He not?
2 Timothy 4:2 (English Standard Version)
"2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove,
rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."
St. Paul writes that we are to preach the word rebuking false teaching
and upholding right teaching. It is not in our power to judge a person
eternally, but we are to condemn false teaching lest the Gospel be
distorted or lost.
Bible John
> With your act of "LOVE" did you Love him enough to warn him of the
> concequences of his actions? Were you able to witness to him and
> introduce him to Jesus who can set him free from this sin?
>
Sadly I did not work with him long enough to get a friendship going.
> If not, then you did not LOVE him but only accepted his sin and signed
> his papers to be sent to the lake of fire.
Relationships take time.
>
> Who will warn them if we don't?
>
> Yes love is the answer but it may not be what you want to hear!
>
> God Bless!
I am sorry but I do not condone the way you would preach to a
homosexual. I think we need to show him or her the truth in love, not
hate as you may vouch.
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, łI am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
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Bible John
"markwise" <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:
Amen!!!!
John
--
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/
John 14:6 Jesus answered, ³I am the way and
the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father
except through me.
AIM-Crucifyself03
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
• Ninure Saunders
-=B7 Ninure Saunders wrote:
-> -Who will warn them if we don't?
->
-> Jesus told you took the ;og out of your eye before you worrry about the
-> speck of dust in someone else's eye, did He not?
-
-2 Timothy 4:2 (English Standard Version)
-"2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove,
-rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."
-
-St. Paul writes that we are to preach the word rebuking false teaching
-and upholding right teaching. It is not in our power to judge a person
-eternally, but we are to condemn false teaching lest the Gospel be
-distorted or lost.
You alwways find an exyse ti disobey or ignore Jesus' direct teachings,
don't you?
Your pefer Paul pver Jesus, if it will suot your pirpose, is that not so?
Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
point, he has become guilty of all.
markwise
· Ninure Saunders wrote:
> In article <1131553056.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "markwise" <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> -=B7 Ninure Saunders wrote:
> -> -Who will warn them if we don't?
> ->
> -> Jesus told you took the ;og out of your eye before you worrry about the
> -> speck of dust in someone else's eye, did He not?
> -
> -2 Timothy 4:2 (English Standard Version)
> -"2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove,
> -rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."
> -
> -St. Paul writes that we are to preach the word rebuking false teaching
> -and upholding right teaching. It is not in our power to judge a person
> -eternally, but we are to condemn false teaching lest the Gospel be
> -distorted or lost.
>
> You alwways find an exyse ti disobey or ignore Jesus' direct teachings,
> don't you?
>
> Your pefer Paul pver Jesus, if it will suot your pirpose, is that not so?
Scripture is Scripture. All divinely inspired. So what's the
difference here?
> Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
> someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
> condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
>
> James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
> point, he has become guilty of all.
Interesting but you quote Paul over Jesus here as well? Ain't that a
bit hypocritical?
Rebuking false teaching is different from judging a person.
• Ninure Saunders
"markwise" <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:
-=B7 Ninure Saunders wrote:
-> In article <1131553056.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
-> "markwise" <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:
->
-> -=3DB7 Ninure Saunders wrote:
-> -> -Who will warn them if we don't?
-> ->
-> -> Jesus told you took the ;og out of your eye before you worrry about the
-> -> speck of dust in someone else's eye, did He not?
-> -
-> -2 Timothy 4:2 (English Standard Version)
-> -"2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove,
-> -rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching."
-> -
-> -St. Paul writes that we are to preach the word rebuking false teaching
-> -and upholding right teaching. It is not in our power to judge a person
-> -eternally, but we are to condemn false teaching lest the Gospel be
-> -distorted or lost.
->
-> You alwways find an exyse ti disobey or ignore Jesus' direct teachings,
-> don't you?
->
-> Your pefer Paul pver Jesus, if it will suot your pirpose, is that not so?
-
-Scripture is Scripture. All divinely inspired. So what's the
-difference here?
If Scripture is Scripture is Scripture..than can I have all yiur money?
Because Scripture says to give to anyone who asks, asking NOTHING in
return.
Oh wiat..I'm sure you'll tell me that is not what that Sxropture means, right?
-
-
-> Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
-> someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
-> condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
->
-> James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
-> point, he has become guilty of all.
-
-Interesting but you quote Paul over Jesus here as well? Ain't that a
-bit hypocritical?
Paul amd James here in agreement with Jesus.
-
-Rebuking false teaching is different from judging a person.
Riiiiighhhht.
markwise
· Ninure Saunders wrote:
> -Scripture is Scripture. All divinely inspired. So what's the
> -difference here?
>
> If Scripture is Scripture is Scripture..than can I have all yiur money?
> Because Scripture says to give to anyone who asks, asking NOTHING in
> return.
Scripture says "Give to every man that asketh of thee," It doesn't
say give to every man "what" he asks" but to give to that man who asks.
This speaks specificially of giving to "the least of these (see Mat.
25:31-46)", that is, giving to those who are in need and giving in love
as Christ did.
If you demand specifically my money and refuse all else that I would
offer then you will be guilty literally of the 7th commandment, that
is, "you shall not steal." For you will be taking from me that which
is not yours. If you simply "demand" what I have rather than taking it
would be then guilt of the 10th commandment.
> Oh wiat..I'm sure you'll tell me that is not what that Sxropture means, right?
> -
> -
> -> Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
> -> someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
> -> condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
> ->
> -> James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
> -> point, he has become guilty of all.
> -
> -Interesting but you quote Paul over Jesus here as well? Ain't that a
> -bit hypocritical?
>
> Paul amd James here in agreement with Jesus.
As was Paul in agreement with Jesus when I quoted him earlier from 2
Timothy to which you accused me of taking Paul over Jesus. .
> -Rebuking false teaching is different from judging a person.
>
> Riiiiighhhht.
Your opinion has been noted.
rogue
> Topical Bible Message- HOMOSEXUALITY- Is it right or wrong? Is it a sin
> or not?
>
> Homosexuality is one of the many heated and controversial debates in our
> society. The church seems to be divided on its views of homosexuality.
> Many liberal denominations are very openly embracing homosexuality,
> while many conservatives are not. There are of coarse different extremes
> between the protestant liberal and conservative denominations regarding
> Homosexuality. Some churches would ordain homosexuals into the ministry,
> while on the opposite extreme there are churches that would never allow
> a homosexual to enter the church.
JERRY
Since all but one of the gay people I have known and worked with in my
life has told me that they were born gay, I have to say, "If God
doesn't like gay people, why did he make so many of them?"
> BJ
> I¹m sure you all have read stories of hate acts against homosexuals by
> some so-called Christian pastors. Fred Phelps is a very well known
> infamous Baptist pastor who preaches a message of hate geared at
> homosexuals. He¹s no doubt the biggest anti-homosexual advocate in the
> world.
>
JERRY
Fred is a fucking moron who physically abuses his children and wife and
can't be happy unless he's making someone else, ANYONE else, miserable.
He's a pathological liar, has been disbarred in Kansas (where EVERY
SINGLE FEDERAL JUDGE in the state signed his disbarment) and may have
been involved in murder. There is nothing christian about him in any
fashion.
>
> BJ
> Pastor Fred Phelps
> http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/phelpsbio.html
JERRY
Nope, try this one. It's much more informative about Fred. That one
just gives you his propaganda, and there is no point in giving those
morons hits on their web pages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rev._Fred_Phelps
> BJ
> Its tragic that Fred does not know the gospel according to Jesus,
> because if he did he would have read the verse that says to love your
> neighbor as yourself (Matt. 22:39 And the second is like it: ŒLove your
> neighbor as yourself.¹).
>
> Many follow Fred¹s damming ways, and sadly many will join him in hell.
> But my prayer is that Fred and his followers repent of their wickedness.
>
> Because of Fred¹s example and poor representation of Christians I can
> understand why many homosexuals are hostile towards us, and I really do
> not blame them.
JERRY
How very patronizing of you. Jesus would be so proud.
> BJ
> Like Fred Phelps I am also a conservative Baptist and staunch Calvinist.
JERRY
Then you would go to hell too, if hell actually existed. Since it
doesn't, you probably feel safe to continue your hateful posting and
ways.
> I may not be 5 point, but I see homosexuality from the same lens as
> Pastor Fred, but the difference between us is our approach to the issue.
> Pastor Fred may read this bible message, and I want him to know that I
> do not hate him, I only love him, but hate his hypocrisy and
> misrepresentation of Christ, which I only will say after using the bible
> as my authority. Those that misrepresent Christ in such a way are surely
> the church of Satan, and will go into hell before the Mormons, JW¹s,
> Oneness Pentecostals, Word of Faith heretics, and other such cults
> sadly. But Lord willing hopefully many will repent and turn towards the
> light.
JERRY
Ah, you are just afraid that Fred's family would sue you. He's the
most letigious son-of-a-bitch in the US. Or, he would send his
Manson-like cult family to picket you.
Those sorry fuckers were in Indiana twice in the past month. Once was
to picket and disrupt the funeral of a servicemember who died in Iraq.
They shouted obscenities at the family and friends at the funeral and
tried to claim that the young man was killed because God hates gays so
much that he murders our military because we allow gays to live in the
US.
Fred is one of the few cases I can think of where state-sponsored
murder is allowable.
>
> BJ
> Lets look at what the bible teaches on homosexuality
JERRY
The bible is irrelevent since it's incorrect on history, prophecy and
contradicts itself. It's obviously not a book from any deity and
therefore has no authority.
>
>
>
> From the Old Testament
>
> Lev. 18:22 ¶ "ŒDo not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is
> detestable.
JERRY
Let's see, what else is "detestable" (abomination) to God according to
Leviticus?
All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto
you.--Lev.11:20
7:18 And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be
eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall
it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination,
and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.
(this makes a little sense, since eating old meat might make you ill)
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls
... the bat--Lev.11:13, 19
Ok, bats are an abomination, so God doesn't like his own creation. Of
course, bats aren't really fowls, are they? Think someone should tell
god that?
11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the
rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which
is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: (11:10-12)
11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of
their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
So, God hates catfish and mammals that swim, like porpoises and whales.
Eating catfish is an abomination. Clams, oysters, crabs, lobsters,
and shrimp are abominations.
(God Hates Shrimp) Nice to know.
11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the
fowls ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle,
and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite
after his kind;
11:15 Every raven after his kind;
11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk
after his kind,
11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the
bat.
11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an
abomination unto you. Which flying creeping things may we eat?
11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth
upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon
the earth;
11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the
bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the
grasshopper after his kind.
11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall
be an abomination unto you.
Lots of abominations to God, it seems.
11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an
abomination; it shall not be eaten.
11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all
four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep
upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing
that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that
ye should be defiled thereby.
So, all those snake-eatin' Rangers and Green Berets should give that
stuff up! (Even though I'm told that rattlesnake tastes just like
chicken!)
And, lets remember that God hates the disabled and handicapped and
doesn't want them around him
For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a
blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing
superfluous.--Lev.21:18
So, if God hates them, why did he create them?
>
> Lev. 20:13 ¶ "ŒIf a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both
> of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their
> blood will be on their own heads.
JERRY
Who else is put to death?
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard,
shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their
blood shall be upon them.--Lev.20:27
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put
to death.--Lev.20:9
24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, The Blasphemer
William Blake (ca 1800)
24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all
that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the
congregation stone him.
24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
If a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto thou shalt
kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their
blood shall be upon them.--Lev.20:16
All the sexual stuff in Lev chapt 20
19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid,
betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given
her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she
was not free.
And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be
put to death.--Lev.20:12
Now, John, consider this: perhaps what you are reading here are not
really the words of a god, but rather the rules of a tribe, put
together through years of trials in order to keep peace and harmony
within the tribe. That would explain the silly "abomination" stuff
regarding bats as fowls and no eating catfish and shrimp.
> BJ
> So you see in the OT homosexuality was clearly a very serious sin that
> had very serious and yet swift consequences. Back in these day¹s sin
> like this was dealt with very quick and swift. One way that people would
> be put to death was by stoning. No quick and easy death like what may be
> experienced by those who are put to death in our society.
JERRY
Or, they were the rules of the tribe put together to ensure peace
within the tribe so it would be stronger and able to fight off enemies
outside the tribe. The Ten Commandments are very similar.
>
><snipped for brevity and because the statements are irrelevent.>
>
> The above scriptures seem to very clearly indicate 3 things.
>
> a) Homosexuality is a sin that will be punished very severely
JERRY
Or that Paul was a homophobe. He was certainly a misogynist and being
homophobic would be in keeping with the time and his already narrow
minded view of others.
> BJ
> b) Practicing Homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven
JERRY
See my statement above re: Paul as homophobe.
> BJ
> c) There was a time when God got so fed up with the sin of sinners, so
> he just allowed the homosexuals and others to continue to live in their
> sin, and without any of his providence
JERRY
which is not in keeping with God as unchanging, therefore, this isn't a
very good presumption on your part.
> BJ
> Knowing the above to be true,
JERRY
which it can't be since the bible isn't true on history, prophecy and
it's contradictory.
>BJ
> and if you are a conservative evangelical
JERRY
Both with and without the lobotomy.
> BJ
> believing in the "verbal plenary view of interpretation" you will see 2
> Tim 3:16 as literal, and will interpret the above verses pertaining to
> homosexuality to indicate that this is indeed a very serious sin. But
> then how to approach homosexuals is another manor. We cant be like Fred
> Phelps, but we can be like Jesus who comes to set the captives free.
JERRY
See my statement above re: lobotomy.
> BJ
> Homosexuals are people too and needed to be treated as such. Fred
> Phelps¹s divisive unbiblical attitude has led many homosexuals to
> believe that all Christians are as hateful towards homosexuals as he is,
> which is very far from the truth. Many Christians do not preach a
> message of hate towards homosexuals.
JERRY
Nope, only the conservative evangelicals.
<snipped this passage as patronizing and irrelevent.>
Michael Voytinsky
> Many follow Fred¹s damming ways, and sadly many will join him in hell.
I do not think that Fred will go to "hell". He will, I suspect, go to
the same place that many of the people he hates go - the Big Gay Bar in
the Sky.
Willy
". Ninure Saunders" <Ninure...@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in message
news:Ninurenohate-0...@h-66-167-65-183.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...
> . Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian