Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
58 views
Skip to first unread message
stephen
Sep 9, 2016, 11:21:51 AM9/9/16
to
Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
they are God.
Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
doesn’t consider himself to be God.
What the pope DOES consider himself to be:
1. Peter’s successor, with Peter being left in charge of the Church
after Jesus, who was God, returned to heaven
2. The representative of God to his flock
3. Sort of like a prime minister, left in charge by the king (Jesus)
while he is away
I’ll deal with several of the common quotes supposedly claiming the pope
is God.
"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth… by divine right the
Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every
pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire
church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible
ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils;
the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme
judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God
himself on earth."
– New York Catechism
The document doesn’t exist. Nobody has ever found it.
"In the “Extravagantes” of Pope John XXII (Cum. Inter, title 14, chapter
4, “Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium”, Column 140, Paris, 1685), Roman Canon
Law says that it is heresy to deny the power of “Our Lord God the Pope.”
In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words occur in column 153."
This is deceptive, for the following reasons:
1. The claim is false, adding in the word “God”. The original text reads
“our Lord Pope”. “Lord” doesn’t mean God, it is just a title for an
important person or leader. Think of the British system of commoners and
nobility. They have Lords and Dukes and Barons etc. Try to think of this
in the language of the time, when such appellations were the norm.
2. The words themselves were not the words of Pope John XXII, and did
not form part of canon law. They were a gloss by a canon lawyer. A gloss
in this context means a comment written in the margin to clarify
something the glossist thinks he should clarify. It doesn’t form part of
the actual text. This makes it a) an unofficial comment on the side, and
b) not part of official Catholic teaching. The gloss itself is harmless,
in the original form – all it does is express that the pope is the
representative of Jesus, something Catholics believe anyway.
"Pope Pius X. made the blasphemous claim that he was “Jesus Christ
hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus
Christ who speaks.”
– Pope Pius X, Church Review, Oct 3 1895, also in Evangelical
Christendom, 1 Jan 1895"
In 1895 Protestant newspaper, “Church Review” and “Evangelical
Christendom”, claimed that this was said by Cardinal Sarto, who later
became Pope Pius X. The claim by the newspaper was investigated, and
found to be false. Cardinal Sarto produced the original document, and
all it claimed was that “the pope represents Jesus Christ himself”.
Nothing like what was claimed by the anti-Catholics.
"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty
– Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894"
This is from a letter titled “The Reunion of Christendom“. And all this
says is that the pope is God’s representative, or prime minister, left
in charge of the Church after Jesus ascended back into heaven.
The context:
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, who will
have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and
now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on
towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the
example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, who when about to
return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest prayer, that
His disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: “I
pray…that they all may be one, as thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that
they also may be one in Us.”
– Pope Leo XIII, The Reunion of Christendom, 1894
Clearly the pope doesn’t consider himself to be his own “Redeemer and
Master” whose example he follows and whose prayer he prays.
"I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God,
hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can
do… wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man,
but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the
Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all
prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no
marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the
precepts of Christ.
– Pope Nicholas I, Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661"
This is a made-up quote, and the source is the anti-Catholic book “Acts
and Monuments” by John Foxe, who quoted a lot of statements that never
existed.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus
Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.
– Catholic National July 1895"
Another bogus quote from a publication that doesn’t exist.
"The appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope,
who being God, cannot be judged by man.
– Pope Nicholas I, Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can 7 Satis Evidentur Decret
Gratian Primer Para"
Bogus source, real quote, but badly translated from the Latin to make
Pope Nicholas appear to be saying that the pope is God. Pope Nicholas I
is really saying that the pope gets his authority from God.
Don’t fall for misquotes and bogus quotes.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
they are God.
Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
doesn’t consider himself to be God.
What the pope DOES consider himself to be:
1. Peter’s successor, with Peter being left in charge of the Church
after Jesus, who was God, returned to heaven
2. The representative of God to his flock
3. Sort of like a prime minister, left in charge by the king (Jesus)
while he is away
I’ll deal with several of the common quotes supposedly claiming the pope
is God.
"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth… by divine right the
Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every
pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire
church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible
ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils;
the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme
judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God
himself on earth."
– New York Catechism
The document doesn’t exist. Nobody has ever found it.
"In the “Extravagantes” of Pope John XXII (Cum. Inter, title 14, chapter
4, “Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium”, Column 140, Paris, 1685), Roman Canon
Law says that it is heresy to deny the power of “Our Lord God the Pope.”
In an Antwerp edition of the Extravagantes, the words occur in column 153."
This is deceptive, for the following reasons:
1. The claim is false, adding in the word “God”. The original text reads
“our Lord Pope”. “Lord” doesn’t mean God, it is just a title for an
important person or leader. Think of the British system of commoners and
nobility. They have Lords and Dukes and Barons etc. Try to think of this
in the language of the time, when such appellations were the norm.
2. The words themselves were not the words of Pope John XXII, and did
not form part of canon law. They were a gloss by a canon lawyer. A gloss
in this context means a comment written in the margin to clarify
something the glossist thinks he should clarify. It doesn’t form part of
the actual text. This makes it a) an unofficial comment on the side, and
b) not part of official Catholic teaching. The gloss itself is harmless,
in the original form – all it does is express that the pope is the
representative of Jesus, something Catholics believe anyway.
"Pope Pius X. made the blasphemous claim that he was “Jesus Christ
hidden under the veil of the flesh. Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus
Christ who speaks.”
– Pope Pius X, Church Review, Oct 3 1895, also in Evangelical
Christendom, 1 Jan 1895"
In 1895 Protestant newspaper, “Church Review” and “Evangelical
Christendom”, claimed that this was said by Cardinal Sarto, who later
became Pope Pius X. The claim by the newspaper was investigated, and
found to be false. Cardinal Sarto produced the original document, and
all it claimed was that “the pope represents Jesus Christ himself”.
Nothing like what was claimed by the anti-Catholics.
"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty
– Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter of June 20, 1894"
This is from a letter titled “The Reunion of Christendom“. And all this
says is that the pope is God’s representative, or prime minister, left
in charge of the Church after Jesus ascended back into heaven.
The context:
But since We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty, who will
have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, and
now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on
towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the
example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, who when about to
return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest prayer, that
His disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: “I
pray…that they all may be one, as thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that
they also may be one in Us.”
– Pope Leo XIII, The Reunion of Christendom, 1894
Clearly the pope doesn’t consider himself to be his own “Redeemer and
Master” whose example he follows and whose prayer he prays.
"I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God,
hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can
do… wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man,
but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the
Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all
prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no
marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the
precepts of Christ.
– Pope Nicholas I, Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661"
This is a made-up quote, and the source is the anti-Catholic book “Acts
and Monuments” by John Foxe, who quoted a lot of statements that never
existed.
"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, He is Jesus
Christ himself, hidden under the veil of flesh.
– Catholic National July 1895"
Another bogus quote from a publication that doesn’t exist.
"The appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope,
who being God, cannot be judged by man.
– Pope Nicholas I, Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can 7 Satis Evidentur Decret
Gratian Primer Para"
Bogus source, real quote, but badly translated from the Latin to make
Pope Nicholas appear to be saying that the pope is God. Pope Nicholas I
is really saying that the pope gets his authority from God.
Don’t fall for misquotes and bogus quotes.
--
blog: http://blog.theotokos.co.za/
ebook: https://www.facebook.com/DiscussingAdventismBook/
duke
Sep 10, 2016, 8:51:59 AM9/10/16
to
On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 17:21:47 +0200, stephen <ste...@poo.com> wrote:
>Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
>
>Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
>they are God.
>
>Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
>doesn’t consider himself to be God.
No way is he God. In fact, his is actually "Vicar of Christ", ie,
>Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
>
>Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
>they are God.
>
>Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
>doesn’t consider himself to be God.
administrative assistant.
the dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
stephen
Sep 10, 2016, 11:08:32 AM9/10/16
to
duke
Sep 11, 2016, 7:46:56 AM9/11/16
to
On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 17:08:28 +0200, stephen <ste...@poo.com> wrote:
>On 10/09/2016 14:51, duke wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 17:21:47 +0200, stephen <ste...@poo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
>>>
>>> Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
>>> they are God.
>>>
>>> Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
>>> doesn’t consider himself to be God.
>>
>> No way is he God. In fact, his is actually "Vicar of Christ", ie,
>> administrative assistant.
>On 10/09/2016 14:51, duke wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 17:21:47 +0200, stephen <ste...@poo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chapter 93: Does the pope claim to be God on earth?
>>>
>>> Adventists, and other anti-Catholics, claim that popes have taught that
>>> they are God.
>>>
>>> Anyone who knows anything about the Catholic Church knows that the pope
>>> doesn’t consider himself to be God.
>>
>> No way is he God. In fact, his is actually "Vicar of Christ", ie,
>> administrative assistant.
>Glad to see some familiar faces still around :-)
Still here kicking some ignorant butts. <grins>
0 new messages