Antinomians Are The Bad Guys
Donna Kupp
No one wants to be called an antinomian because
antinomians are known as the bad guys of church history.
Since only a few Christians know what an antinomian
teaches, many will be shocked when they read the
definition and discover that they are one.
antinomian, (from Greek anti=against and nomos=law)
"One who holds that, under the gospel dispensation, the
moral law is of no use or obligation, faith alone being
necessary to salvation." (Webster's Collegiate)
The moral law is defined as:
"The Decalogue [The ten commandments] and the moral
maxims of the Mosaic law" (Webster's 20th Century)
As you can see, the fact is that anyone who says that a
Christian is under no obligation to obey the ten
commandments for salvation is an antinomian teacher.
Antinomianism is a spiritual cancer which has eaten away
the heart of modern Christianity. All that is left is a weak
and sickly counterfeit dressed in fine clothing. Unrepentant
sinners love this sin-filled fake which softly promises that
"faith alone is necessary to salvation". What a lie!
Jesus said:
"If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
(Matthew 19:17)
Only Satan, "the father of liars" would boldly contradict the
very words of Christ and call it Christianity. The simple
truth is that Jesus never said: "If you would enter life, have
faith." He said - keep the commandments!.
Down through the pages of history, the leaders and
teachers in the true church have fought this doctrine of
Antinomianism which teaches that a Christian can continue
to commit sin and still inherit eternal life.
From the time of Adam and Eve, Satan's plan has always
been to trick men and women into disobeying the laws of
God. That is what makes him the enemy of God. Think
about it, if Satan were to teach people that they must keep
the ten commandments in order to inherit eternal life he
would be saying the same thing as Jesus.
On the contrary, Satan's "antinomian" teachers say that as
far as salvation is concerned, Christians have no obligation
to obey any of God's ten commandments. They insist that
we are saved by grace --plus nothing.
This lie of Satan can take many subtle forms and is
sometimes difficult to pin down. But there is one question
that will always expose the true source of someone's
doctrine. If you are not exactly sure what a teacher believes
about salvation, ask him this question:
Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
life?
Anyone who says "Yes" is teaching antinomianism, whether
he knows it or not. The truth is that Christians must cease
from all willful sin in order to inherit eternal life. The good
news is that through the power of the Holy Spirit, we can.
Donna Kupp
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Randy ®
Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> As you can see, the fact is that anyone who says that a
> Christian is under no obligation to obey the ten
> commandments for salvation is an antinomian teacher.
You are an heretic who does not understand and who apparently
deliberately twists everything the Bible teaches. The purpose of
the Law was to show men they are sinners, who cannot measure up
to God's righteousness, and who therefore need an atoning
sacrifice (Romans 7). As Galatians plainly states, the Law is a
tutor to lead men to Christ, so they might be justified by faith,
not by the deeds of the Law.
Thus, the Law is good, in that it is a mirror to show men they
are sinners who cannot achieve their own righteousness, but who
need Christ's righteousness, provided through faith in His death
and resurrection for their sin. The Law is not, however, a means
by which men can achieve their own righteousness, and that damned
heresy is squarely refuted by Jesus when He strongly rebuked the
legalistic teachers such as yourself, as well as in Galatians,
which plainly rebukes your false gospel as one that will result
in eternal damnation.
--
Have you heard Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him
from the dead? Did you know God saves you from hell and
gives you eternal life through faith in this finished work alone,
not your merits (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess.
1:8-9)? This is so man cannot boast, and God alone gets the
glory (Eph. 2:8-9).
______________________________________________
www.faithguard.org
www.twitter.com/faithguard
www.facebook.com/faithguard
______________________________________________
Michael Gabriel
THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME
THOU SHALT NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE
THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN
REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY
HONOR THY FATHER AND THY MOTHER
THOU SHALT NOT KILL
THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY
THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS
THOU SHALT NOT COVET
IT IS THE LYING SPIRIT OF satan THAT WANTS THE WORLD TO BELIEVE:
THAT CHRISTIANITY AND MOST CHRISTIANS HAVE OTHER GODS
THAT THEY MAKE GRAVEN IMAGES
THAT THEY TAKE THE NAME OF GOD IN VAIN
THAT THEY DON'T REMEMBER THE SABBATH TO KEEP IT HOLY
THAT THEY DON'T HONOR THEIR PARENTS
THAT THEY KILL
THAT THEY COMMIT ADULTERY
THAT THEY STEAL
THAT THEY LIE
AND THAT THEY SEEK WHAT OTHERS HAVE
ONLY THE LYING SPIRIT OF satan WANTS THE WORLD TO BELIEVE THAT.
Donna Kupp
snip
Jesus said:
"If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
(Matthew 19:17)
So Michael,
Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
life?
Donna Kupp
Jude Alexander
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ad32059e-4cb1-4173...@b25g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
snip
Jesus said:
Donna Kupp
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
If a person couldn't possibly do good enough or follow the law in order to
attain their own salvation, how could anybody maintain that salvation by
doing what we couldn't do before... that is follow the law. Of COURSE, one
should not use the gift of grace by boldly and deliberately breaking the
golden rule, at least without recognizing that you've broken it, confess and
deliberate to do better. However, to do better won't maintain our salvation.
We're just not supposed to take our "liberty" for granted.
duke
>On Fri, 11/20/09, at 5:48:20AM,
>Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> As you can see, the fact is that anyone who says that a
>> Christian is under no obligation to obey the ten
>> commandments for salvation is an antinomian teacher.
>You are an heretic who does not understand and who apparently
>deliberately twists everything the Bible teaches. The purpose of
>the Law was to show men they are sinners, who cannot measure up
>to God's righteousness, and who therefore need an atoning
>sacrifice (Romans 7). As Galatians plainly states, the Law is a
>tutor to lead men to Christ, so they might be justified by faith,
>not by the deeds of the Law.
You're misunderstanding what constitutes the Law. It is not the 10
commandments, which will never go away.
The works of the law, all 639 of them, were manmade Levi laws to use to
determine standards to use to measure if one was following the commandments.
These are of no value in a faith based system. But works of the heart is a
definite mandate for us.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
I
> You are an heretic
Randy Young continues in his crazy crusade calling another Christian woman
"heretic". He usuall adds "whore".
Donna Kupp
> Jesus said:
>
> "If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
> (Matthew 19:17)
Donna Kupp asked Michael,
>
> Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
> commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
> life?
Jude Alexander wrote:
> If a person couldn't possibly do good enough or follow the law in order to
> attain their own salvation, how could anybody maintain that salvation by
> doing what we couldn't do before... that is follow the law. Of COURSE, one
> should not use the gift of grace by boldly and deliberately breaking the
> golden rule, at least without recognizing that you've broken it, confess and
> deliberate to do better. However, to do better won't maintain our salvation.
> We're just not supposed to take our "liberty" for granted.
Donna Kupp writes: Ahhh, but Jude,
Jesus said: "With men, this is impossible; but with God all things
are possible."
Matthew 19:26
If you cannot cease from willful sin, then you are still under the
authority of satan and Jesus is not your Lord. Nor are you born-
again; nor are you a new creation; nor do you have the indwelling Holy
Spirit. Jesus said:
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Luke 6:46
Jude Alexander
Jude Alexander wrote:
Donna Kupp
Verdy intedestin. Are you telling me you don't sin since you've been saved?
Donna Kupp
Jude Alexander comments:
>
> Verdy intedestin. Are you telling me you don't ***sin*** since you've been saved?
I refer you to: "What Does It Mean To Commit Sin" at this website:
(#3)
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
Donna Kupp
Michael Gabriel
> On Nov 20, 9:05 am, Michael Gabriel <m...@ablaze.il> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> Jesus said:
>
> "If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
> (Matthew 19:17)
> So Michael,
>
> Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
> commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
> life?
>
WHERE, AND HOW DID YOU CLEARLY ESTABLISH THAT A MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS
DELIBERATELY BREAK THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WITH THAT IN MIND--WITHOUT YOU
ACTUALLY BEING IN THEIR MINDS? ARE YOU GOD?
Jude Alexander
"Michael Gabriel" <m...@ablaze.il> wrote in message
news:he70e2$shv$1...@news.albasani.net...
: Donna Kupp wrote:
: > On Nov 20, 9:05 am, Michael Gabriel <m...@ablaze.il> wrote:
: >
: > snip
: >
: > Jesus said:
: >
: > "If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
: > (Matthew 19:17)
: > So Michael,
: >
: > Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
: > commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
: > life?
: >
: YOU HAVE AN OBVIOUS DISDAIN FOR A BROAD-SPECTRUM OF CHRISTIANS. WHEN,
: WHERE, AND HOW DID YOU CLEARLY ESTABLISH THAT A MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS
: DELIBERATELY BREAK THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WITH THAT IN MIND--WITHOUT YOU
: ACTUALLY BEING IN THEIR MINDS? ARE YOU GOD?
I read her site and it just about made my eyes bleed! Talk about a web! The
text seems to be answering something but you don't exactly get a straight
answer.
Does one sin after they are saved is the SIMPLE question. A yes or no will
suffice. If accidentally or willful sinning is the difference being pointed
out, then just say so.
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
: On Nov 20, 12:19�ｿｽpm, "Jude Alexander" <Oneca...@swampland.net> wrote:
: > "Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
: >
: > news:e379049b-4ec9-4155...@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
: > On Nov 20, 11:22 am, "Jude �ｿｽAlexander" <Oneca...@swampland.net> wrote:
: >
: > > Jesus said:
: >
: > > "If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
: > > (Matthew 19:17)
: >
: > Donna Kupp asked Michael,
: >
: >
: >
: > > Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
: > > commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
: > > life?
: > Jude Alexander wrote:
: > > If a person couldn't possibly do good enough or follow the law in order to
: > > attain their own salvation, how could anybody maintain that salvation by
: > > doing what we couldn't do before... that is follow the law. Of COURSE, one
: > > should not use the gift of grace by boldly and deliberately breaking the
: > > golden rule, at least without recognizing that you've broken it, confess
: > > and
: > > deliberate to do better. However, to do better won't maintain our
: > > salvation.
: > > We're just not supposed to take our "liberty" for granted.
: > Donna Kupp writes: �ｿｽAhhh, but Jude,
: >
: > Jesus said: �ｿｽ"With men, this is impossible; but with God all things
: > are possible."
: > Matthew 19:26
: >
: > If you cannot cease from willful sin, then you are still under the
: > authority of satan and Jesus is not your Lord. �ｿｽNor are you born-
: > again; nor are you a new creation; nor do you have the indwelling Holy
: > Spirit. �ｿｽJesus said:
: >
: > "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
: > Luke 6:46
: >
: > Donna Kupp
:
: Jude Alexander comments:
: >
: > Verdy intedestin. �ｿｽAre you telling me you don't ***sin*** since you've been saved?
:
: I refer you to: "What Does It Mean To Commit Sin" at this website:
: (#3)
To understand what you're claiming, it's a good question to
answer: Have you not sinned since you've been saved?
:
: The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
: http://www.freetruth.info
:
: Donna Kupp
:
:
:
:
Michael Christ
"gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:594eg59e28qmbuoj9...@4ax.com...
> : > "Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
> : >
> : >
> news:e379049b-4ec9-4155...@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> : >
> : > > Jesus said:
> : >
> : > > "If you would enter life KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS"
> : > > (Matthew 19:17)
> : >
> : > Donna Kupp asked Michael,
> : >
> : >
> : >
> : > > Can a Christian continue to deliberately break any of the ten
> : > > commandments (including the sabbath) and still inherit eternal
> : > > life?
> : > Jude Alexander wrote:
> : > > If a person couldn't possibly do good enough or follow the law in
> order to
> : > > attain their own salvation, how could anybody maintain that
> salvation by
> : > > doing what we couldn't do before... that is follow the law. Of
> COURSE, one
> : > > should not use the gift of grace by boldly and deliberately breaking
> the
> : > > golden rule, at least without recognizing that you've broken it,
> confess
> : > > and
> : > > deliberate to do better. However, to do better won't maintain our
> : > > salvation.
> : > > We're just not supposed to take our "liberty" for granted.
> : >
> : > Jesus said: "With men, this is impossible; but with God all things
> : > are possible."
> : > Matthew 19:26
> : >
> : > If you cannot cease from willful sin, then you are still under the
> : > again; nor are you a new creation; nor do you have the indwelling Holy
> : >
> : > "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
> : > Luke 6:46
> : >
> : > Donna Kupp
> :
> : Jude Alexander comments:
> : >
> :
> : I refer you to: "What Does It Mean To Commit Sin" at this website:
> : (#3)
Gabriel wrote:
> To understand what you're claiming, it's a good question to
> answer: Have you not sinned since you've been saved?
And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been saved
from?
Michael Christ
Donna Kupp
Michael Christ wrote:
> And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been saved
> from?
Donna writes:
I refer you to a new post called: What does "saved" mean?
Donna
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
To understand what you're claiming, it's a good question to
Michael Christ
> On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:25:57 -0800 (PST), Donna Kupp
> <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> : On Nov 20, 2:50 pm, "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote:
> :
> : Michael Christ wrote:
> :
> : > And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been
> saved
> : > from?
> :
> : Donna writes:
> :
> : I refer you to a new post called: What does "saved" mean?
> :
> : Donna
Gabriel wrote:
> To understand what you're claiming, it's a good question to
> answer: Have you not sinned since you've been saved?
I'm still waiting on an answer to this please...
And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been saved
from?
Michael Christ
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
: "gabriel" <gabriel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
So you're claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
:
:
: Michael Christ
Donna Kupp
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:49:55 GMT, "Michael Christ"
>
>
> :: "gabriel" <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> :news:ae2kg5dt71lb968q8...@4ax.com...
> : > On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:25:57 -0800 (PST), Donna Kupp: > <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> : >
> : > : On Nov 20, 2:50 pm, "Michael Christ" <JesusisL...@Father.com> wrote:
> : > :
> : > : Michael Christ wrote:
> : > :
> : > : > And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been
> : > saved
> : > : > from?
> : > :
> : > : Donna writes:
> : > :
> : > : I refer you to a new post called: What does "saved" mean?
> : > :
> : > : Donna
> :: Gabriel wrote:
>
> : > To understand what you're claiming, it's a good question to
> : > answer: Have you not sinned since you've been saved?
> :
> : I'm still waiting on an answer to this please...
> :
> : And if you have, a good question to answer is, what have you been saved
> : from?
>
> So you're claiming you have not sinned since being saved?
>
> :
> :
> : Michael Christ
Donna to Gabriel and Michael,
I am referring you to todays post: Salvation is a Spiritual Journey
with the hope that it will answer your questions. I do not knowingly
disobey God. When the Holy Spirit shows me that I have made an error,
I confess it and forsake it. That is what is called "walking in the
light".
Donna
http://groups.google.com/group/Freetruth?hl=en,
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
Michael Christ
Simple question.
Michael Christ
gabriel
<dk...@charter.net> wrote:
To call a sin "an error" is a bit dangerous. We need to at least
be honest enough to admit we just sinned. Not "I committed an
error by [taking God's name in vain / insert other sin here], I
just didn't notice until the Holy Spirit showed me" and so on.
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and
his word is not in us.
So please realize you, too, sin on occasion - don't deceive
yourself by calling it an "error". So being that you sin on
occasion, and since you believe you are saved, then to you at
least it clearly must be false that if a person sins at all they
were never really saved; that they never really repented, which
you seem to imply in your posts.
Also it must then be false that we earn our way to heaven by not
sinning. Since you indirectly realize you've sinned, that would
mean you lost your salvation and have not earned, nor maintained
your place in achieving eternal life.
Realizing this, it's false to claim a person that sins is not
saved and never truly repented. The truth is even the most devout
Christian will occasionally sin - stumble.
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and
his word is not in us.
If a person is going to dismiss this by claiming they never
sinned but instead they "made an error", they make him a liar,
and his word is not in such a person - so please be careful in
trying to deny that you have sinned on occasion.
Salvation is by grace alone by faith, not of works. We obey God
out of our display of love for him, confessing our sins when we
sin, and praying for the spirit and strength to not sin again,
taking steps to help make sure it doesn't happen again.
May God Bless.
: That is what is called "walking in the
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: If you sin against God, what are you saved from Gabriel?
We all sin, Michael. When we are saved, we are showing God how
sorry we are for sinning against Him our whole life, and how we
don't *want* to live that way anymore but instead beg Him to
please forgive us, and allow the amazing sacrifice that Jesus did
on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins to apply to us. We
humbly beg Christ to forgive us and to come into our life as our
Lord and our Savior. God leads us to this repentance, opening our
eyes to this glorious truth.
Once we are saved, we will still occasionally stumble and sin.
But we hate it, we are to confess it, pray for strength and the
spirit to avoid that sin in the future, and take steps to help
make sure it doesn't happen again. We show our love for God by
doing our best to keep His commandments.
But it's not these works of obedience that save us or earn/keep
our salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:5 KJV
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but
according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of
regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Salvation is though Jesus Christ alone.
John 14:5-6 KJV
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
We will even be chastized and scourge and rebuked when we sin too
often for God's liking, and for a way that He will help us make
sure we don't keep doing it:
Hebrews 12:5-11 KJV
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you
as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the
Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every
son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons;
for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers,
then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected
us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own
pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of
his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but
grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit
of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Even Christians sin from time to time. If we confess (as we
should) He is just to forgive us. If we say we do not sin
anymore, we are deceiving ourselves.
1 John 1:8-10 KJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and
his word is not in us.
On the other hand, some people who sin over and over and clearly
do not care are most likely not saved and never really repented.
That's for God to judge for sure - we can only point out that
something's wrong if a person seems to willingly sin over and
over, not seem to care, not to pray about help with it, and not
to take any actions to help make sure it stops.
So have you not sinned even once since you were "saved"? Have you
remained perfectly sinless?
:
: Simple question.
:
:
:
: Michael Christ
Michael Christ
the way).
Now can you please stop trying to justify yourself and answer the
question...
Michael Christ wrote:
> : If you sin against God, what are you saved from Gabriel?
You can water it down with 'occasional' all you like but it is a crock of
@#$%.
You sin against God just as a prolific sinner sins. Sin is sin. A man
murders 1 man or a 1000 men, he is still every bit a murderer.
You need to understand what real repentance is.
Where is your remorse, regret, distaste, loathing, hatred, disgust in
yourself and the crying out to God to change what your are???!!!
Where???!!!
That is a person God will change.
Michael Christ
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Amen, I agree with your emotive subject header (don't know who said it by
: the way).
:
: Now can you please stop trying to justify yourself and answer the
: question...
I answered the question - you deleted the entire response and
acted like I didn't answer it. Here it is again:
We will even be chastised and scourge and rebuked when we sin too
:
: Michael Christ wrote:
: > : If you sin against God, what are you saved from Gabriel?
:
: You can water it down with 'occasional' all you like but it is a crock of
: @#$%.
:
: You sin against God just as a prolific sinner sins. Sin is sin. A man
: murders 1 man or a 1000 men, he is still every bit a murderer.
:
: You need to understand what real repentance is.
:
:
: Where is your remorse, regret, distaste, loathing, hatred, disgust in
: yourself and the crying out to God to change what your are???!!!
:
: Where???!!!
:
: That is a person God will change.
:
:
:
:
: Michael Christ
:
So then, Michael: you continue to avoid answering the question.
Are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being saved?
It's a simple question.
gabriel
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Amen, I agree with your emotive subject header (don't know who said it by
: the way).
:
: Now can you please stop trying to justify yourself and answer the
: question...
:
: Michael Christ wrote:
: > : If you sin against God, what are you saved from Gabriel?
:
: You can water it down with 'occasional' all you like but it is a crock of
: @#$%.
The short version:
You are saved from a *lifestyle* of sinning countless times every
single day; as you put it, becoming remorseful, regretful, having
distaste for, loathing of, hatred for, disgust in sin. So God
saves you from that lifestyle. But to claim you can now perfectly
keep from sinning for the rest of your life and never fall to
temptation that is always around us and sin on occasions is to
deceive yourself.
The struggle with the sin nature even as a saved person:
Romans 7:14-25 NKJV
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold
under sin.
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to
do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law
that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in
me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good
dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what
is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I
will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do
it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who
wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law
of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin
which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body
of death?
25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the
mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of
sin.
Written to those who are saved:
1 John 1:8-10 NKJV
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and
His word is not in us.
:
: You sin against God just as a prolific sinner sins. Sin is sin. A man
: murders 1 man or a 1000 men, he is still every bit a murderer.
:
: You need to understand what real repentance is.
:
:
: Where is your remorse, regret, distaste, loathing, hatred, disgust in
: yourself and the crying out to God to change what your are???!!!
Good question.
On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:58:22 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Heard this before but maybe you haven't...
:
: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
:
: A man and his ever-nagging wife went on vacation to Jerusalem. While they
: were there, the wife passed away.
:
: The undertaker told the husband, "You can have her shipped home for $5000,
: or you can bury her here, in the Holy Land, for $150."
:
: The man thought about it and told him he would just have her shipped home.
:
: The undertaker asked, "Why would you spend $5000 to ship your wife home,
: when it would be wonderful to be buried here and you would spend only $150?"
:
: The man replied, "A long time ago a man died here, was buried here, and
: three days later he rose from the dead. I just can't take that chance."
:
:
:
: :-).
:
: Michael Christ
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 04:03:40 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: [..]
: Holiness, righteousness and purity, without which a man will never be with
: God...has it registered yet? Or, are you just going to ignore it like an
: idiot while glorying in your awesome theological correctness?
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:16:00 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
:
: You must think the Lord is a complete blind dickhead.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:26:35 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: ..
: You walk as though God is a blind complete dickhead.
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:40:03 GMT, "Michael Christ"
<Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
: Those who are called need the Bible, but those who are chosen don't need it
: anymore because they walk in the Spirit with the Lord.
:
: I remember when the Lord began my chastening, He took my Bible away from me,
: twice in fact.
:
: I had my KJV, the version He gave me as the best there was, and for an
: unexplained reason at the time, it just vanished.
:
: About 3 months later I was mucking around in the garage and lo and behold it
: turned up on top of a clothes cabinet.
:
: Anyway, it went missing again almost straight away, and to this day I never
: knew what happened to it.
Good question. Where is your remorse, regret, distaste, loathing,
hatred, disgust in yourself and the crying out to God to change
what your are?
:
: Where???!!!
:
Michael Christ
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:36:20 GMT, "Michael Christ"
> <Jesus...@Father.com> wrote:
>
> : Amen, I agree with your emotive subject header (don't know who said it
> by
> : the way).
> :
> : Now can you please stop trying to justify yourself and answer the
> : question...
Gabriel wrote:
> I answered the question - you deleted the entire response and
> acted like I didn't answer it. Here it is again:
(snipped again then)
Your answer, if you want to call it that, is full of holes, and is drenched
in lukewarmness. Therefore is spewable; you have to aim higher.
Tell me Gabriel, have you sinned against me in the conversations you have
had with me?
Seriously now, think very carefully before you answer, just because you
can't see Him doesn't mean He isn't watching.
Gabriel wrote:
> So then, Michael: you continue to avoid answering the question.
> Are you claiming you have not sinned even once since being saved?
> It's a simple question.
My life is hid in Him. Therefore you have to ask the Lord that question; He
alone is judge.
Michael Christ
Michael Christ
>Amen, I agree with your emotive subject header (don't know who said it by
>the way).
>Now can you please stop trying to justify yourself and answer the
>question...
Michael Christ wrote:
>If you sin against God, what are you saved from Gabriel?
>You can water it down with 'occasional' all you like but it is a crock of
>@#$%.
Paul is talking about his physical body (body of death) in Romans 7 (18 For
I know that in me (that is, in my flesh))
For example, I wish could stay awake all night and pray but that which I
will, I do not, but that which I would not, that I do (out of fatigue I
can't/don't in this body of death). He was [is] pure, innocent, like a
child. To the pure all things are pure.
Paul is talking about spirit in Romans 8. That is why it starts with no
condemnation. If Romans 7 means what the religious world wants it to mean,
he would have condemnation.
You have to understand that all organised religion is false, its theology is
geared to accommodate the fallen nature. You have to come through the
religion God brought you into; doesn't matter which one. You think the
Baptists love you buddy boy?? Forget it!! You'll find that out very
quickly if you cross them.
You are going to find that out smartly if you *****really***** want
something done about your sinning.
Gabriel wrote:
> Written to those who are saved:
No, absolutely no, it is written to those who are called.
A man of God walks in the spirit with the Lord and is in no need for any man
or letters to teach him anymore the things of God, for he knows Him, or as
Hebrews puts it...
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and
write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be
to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man
his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to
the greatest.
Gabriel wrote:
> 1 John 1:8-10 NKJV
> 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
> truth is not in us.
> 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
> our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
> 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and
> His word is not in us.
Here is the exegesis of 1 John 1...
To those who have not repented with all their heart, it is present tense.
To those who have repented with all their heart, it is past tense.
Many are called, few are chosen.
As unlikely as it seems it is the TRUTH.
Michael Christ wrote:
> : You sin against God just as a prolific sinner sins. Sin is sin. A man
> : murders 1 man or a 1000 men, he is still every bit a murderer.
> :
> : You need to understand what real repentance is.
> :
> :
> : Where is your remorse, regret, distaste, loathing, hatred, disgust in
> : yourself and the crying out to God to change what your are???!!!
Where???!!!
That is a person God will change, not an 'occasioner' whose happy to settle
for that! I am telling you this for your good, Gabriel, despite your
propensity to condemn me in your religious fervour.
One of first things you need to learn about the Lord is that He detests
bullshit, Gabriel, so you can imagine how well He would go down in those
Sunday gatherings.
A lot of people have this Hollywood picture of Jesus, like He sat around
with the 12 men saying things like, oh isn't that lovely wallpaper over
there.
Oh dear, is the world ever in for a shock, and none more than the religious
world.
Michael Christ