WHAT WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS?
Donna Kupp
We are all condemned to death for our past sins before being born
of God.
When we repent, all past sins which required our death because of
the law of sin and death are forgiven.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
The Greek word for "handwriting of ordinances" which were
nailed to the cross (KJV) is "cheriographon" which means - a
certificate of debt.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that
was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the
way, nailing it to his cross;
The Biblical concept of sin is that when we sin we owe a debt to
God which can only be paid by the shedding of blood - our death.
Remember the Lord's prayer.. Father forgive us our debts..."?
Paul was referring to the Roman practice of nailing a list of the
crimes a person has committed to the cross when that person was
crucified as an analogy for what was nailed to the cross of Christ.
Spiritually speaking what was nailed to the cross was a list of all
our past sins (debts) which are covered by the blood (death) of
Jesus.
Harold and Donna Kupp
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.freetruth.info
duke
>WHAT WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS?
>
>We are all condemned to death for our past sins before being born
>of God.
>
>When we repent, all past sins which required our death because of
>the law of sin and death are forgiven.
Says who?
>Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
>faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
>sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Yes, he gave us a sacrament of reconciliation in John 20:22-23.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Chuck
"Donna Kupp" <dk...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:9ab15a7a-c90c-4a58...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> WHAT WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS?
>
> We are all condemned to death for our past sins before being born
> of God.
>
> When we repent, all past sins which required our death because of
> the law of sin and death are forgiven.
>
> Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
> faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
> sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
>
> The Greek word for "handwriting of ordinances" which were
> nailed to the cross (KJV) is "cheriographon" which means - a
> certificate of debt.
>
> Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that
> was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the
> way, nailing it to his cross;
It is you who dissemble, for you pick and choose what you will take notice
of and what you will ignore of God's word:
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments
contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so
making peace; Ephesians 2:15 (King James Version)
Here we see Paul expressing exactly the same thought without using
"cheriographon". Thus we must not make doctrine out of a word the inspired
author didn't!
"the law of the commandments in ordinances" is a phrase that couldn't be
more clear that it refers to the laws given through Moses, and not some
mythical list of past sins. Further, "cheirographon" doesn't mean "a
certificate of debt", but simply "a handwriting" that is interpreted by some
translations as "a bond". However, since we have the same author,
expressing the same thought at Ephesians 2:14-15, and there it is
unmistakable, due to his extremely unambiguous Greek construction that he is
referring to the Law of Moses, it is simply WRONG to take advantage of his
more ambiguous word choice at Col. 2:14 to say there he is talking about
something else entirely, especially when we have his lengthy treatise on the
same subject in Romans!
The "biblical concept" is that we are creatures of God, and sinners or no we
can never repay God for creating us, for simply existing. Adam, BEFORE he
sinned owed God a debt he could never repay, and God, being unconditional
love, is not looking to be "paid off" for anything. Love doesn't look to
balance the ledger; accountants, which is to say legalists, do such things,
and delude themselves they DO balance them.
How could God ever require us to love our enemies if He doesn't do that
Himself? Maybe there are those here who think perfect love is capable of
intentionally hurting the beloved, but I don't happen to be one of them. 1
Corinthians 13 is as close to the perfect description of Divine Love as one
can find outside of the life of Jesus, and in neither place do we find the
notion that love seeks to revenge itself upon those its enemies, or keep a
balance sheet of trespasses and sins. Love loves, without end, without
condition. THAT is what Jesus came to teach us. We've never NOT known the
judgment and retribution Donna and Harold are selling in place of what Jesus
died to give us. It is that very knowledge that has created the abyss that
separates the sinner from God; the very same abyss Jesus died to fill, and D
& H spend all their time digging again for the unwary.
It is not God's "hostility"/"enmity" that Paul refers to in Ephesians 2:15
and Colossians 2:14, and that Christ came in the likeness of a man and died
to abate, but ours toward selfless, unconditional love; the very thing that
God is and the very thing that terrifies the sinner in his selfishness.
Chuck
Donna Kupp
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 05:38:35 -0800 (PST), Donna Kupp <dk...@charter.net> wrote:
> >WHAT WAS NAILED TO THE CROSS?
Donna Kupp wrote:
> >We are all condemned to death for our past sins before being born
> >of God.
[Duke: says who?]
Donna quotes:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed
in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Donna wrote:
> >When we repent, all past sins which required our death because of
> >the law of sin and death are forgiven.
[Duke: says who]
Donna quotes:
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Duke wrote:
> Yes, he gave us a sacrament of reconciliation in John 20:22-23.
" And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto
them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they
are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are
retained." John 20:22-23
Donna writes:
A person does not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit until after
they repent and are baptized. [Peter says so!]
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of
you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye
shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38
::: Jesus is LORD :::
> Donna writes:
>
> A person does not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit until after
> they repent and are baptized. [Peter says so!]
>
> "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of
> you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye
> shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me
in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
world. Amen. - Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me
in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the
world. Amen. - Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
--
___________________________________________________
http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de
http://the-beauty-of-the-psalms.blogspot.com
http://jesus-christ-is-my-lord-and-my-god.blogspot.com
http://bible-prophecy-and-revelation.blogspot.com/
duke
>Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through
>faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of
>sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
>Duke wrote:
>> Yes, he gave us a sacrament of reconciliation in John 20:22-23.
>" And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto
>them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they
>are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are
>retained." John 20:22-23
>Donna writes:
>A person does not receive the indwelling Holy Spirit until after
>they repent and are baptized. [Peter says so!]
We are all sinners.
>"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of
>you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye
>shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38
Yep, and when we fail, which is regular, Jesus gave us the sacrament of
confession to be made right with God.
Donna Kupp
Further, "cheirographon" doesn't mean "a
> certificate of debt", but simply "a handwriting" that is interpreted by some
> translations as "a bond". However, since we have the same author,
> expressing the same thought at Ephesians 2:14-15, and there it is
> unmistakable, due to his extremely unambiguous Greek construction that he is
> referring to the Law of Moses, it is simply WRONG to take advantage of his
> more ambiguous word choice at Col. 2:14 to say there he is talking about
> something else entirely, especially when we have his lengthy treatise on the
> same subject in Romans!
>
Donna writes:
Not my opinion
# Samuele Bacchiocchi notes that the Greek word for law (nomos) does
not exist in Colossians; therefore this handwriting that was canceled /
wiped out cannot be the Law. Even scholars who disagree with his pro-
Sabbath views recognize the strength of his position here.3
# Cheirographon is now widely understood to be not the Law but “an
‘IOU’, a statement of indebtedness, personally signed by the debtor.”4
# “This graphic image conjures up the plight of one whose faults are
staring him in the face, like a contract brandished before its
acknowledged signatory. Our sinfulness is just as plain as a
documentary pledge, upon which is written our plain duty towards
God.”5
# “The effective action seems more to lie in the removal of a list of
sins by wiping it clean. For this Isaiah 43:25 (LXX) provides some
anticipation: ‘I am the one who wipes out (Gr. xaleiphōn) your
iniquities and I will not remember them.’“6
Chuck
On Jan 6, 2:10 pm, "Chuck"
Further, "cheirographon" doesn't mean "a
> certificate of debt", but simply "a handwriting" that is interpreted by
> some
> translations as "a bond". However, since we have the same author,
> expressing the same thought at Ephesians 2:14-15, and there it is
> unmistakable, due to his extremely unambiguous Greek construction that he
> is
> referring to the Law of Moses, it is simply WRONG to take advantage of his
> more ambiguous word choice at Col. 2:14 to say there he is talking about
> something else entirely, especially when we have his lengthy treatise on
> the
> same subject in Romans!
>
Donna writes:
Not my opinion
# Samuele Bacchiocchi notes that the Greek word for law (nomos) does
not exist in Colossians; therefore this handwriting that was canceled /
wiped out cannot be the Law. Even scholars who disagree with his pro-
Sabbath views recognize the strength of his position here.3
Chuck: To my knowledge, and I venture to guess, to everyone else's
knowledge as well, including Bacchiocchi's, neitehr he nor those scholars
who think some portion of his argument concerning Colossians has merit, were
at the council in Jerusalem where James, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, and the
elders decided the issue concerning the Law and the Church. I direct your
attention to Acts 15 and if that's not enough for you, then to the fact God
allowed his Temple, the supreme symbol and repository of the law he gave to
Israel through Moses, to be TORN DOWN, "until not one stone shall rest upon
another" ""until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled".
I'm sure there wree a few voices at that council who left it unsatisfied;
who felt they had lost some of their control over others by the council's
decision, just as I'm sure these same are your spiritual kinsmen unless or
until you repent of this legalistic madness.
Donna: # Cheirographon is now widely understood to be not the Law but "an
'IOU', a statement of indebtedness, personally signed by the debtor."4
Chuck: The argument against you doesn't rest on what cheirographon is or
isn't "widely understood" to mean at, and if my first reply gave that
impression, then I apologize, and will correct that impression now. You had
initially USED "cheirographon" at Colossians 2:14 to try and claim the Law
was still in effect for Christian; that we have an obligation to obey the
Law...or more precisely, it seems to me, whatever portion of the Law YOU'VE
deemed Christians to still be under.
I disputed you're exaggerated "definition" of "cheirographon" only as an
introduction to the fact that at Ephesians 2:14-15 the SAME AUTHOR makes it
CLEAR that at his Colossians 2:14 he WASN'T teaching anyone the Christian
was still under the Law! It could hardly be clearer from Eph. 2:14-15 that
this is true, but that's not the only place where Paul has made his meaning
in this regard crystal clear. I direct your, and anyone else's attention
who is confused on this point and lost in legalism to Paul's magisterial
treatise on the Law and the Christian in his letter to the Romans,
Galatians, ..
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are
under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become
guilty before God. Romans 3:19 (King James Version)
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but
under grace. Romans 6:14 (King James Version)
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith
which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we
might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to
the promise.
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from
a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of
the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of
a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption
of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into
your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an
heir of God through Christ.
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by
nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how
turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again
to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Galatians 3:23-4:11 (King James Version)
Paul concludes for us all, INCLUDING YOU, DONNA KUPP:
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for
an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed
one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of
the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the
flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the
things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery,
fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife,
seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I
tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do
such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:13-21 (King
James Version)
Donna, you go about zealously trying to place believers in Christ back under
a yoke no one could ever bear, and from under which Christ, by his awesome
manifestation of love on the cross has freed us who walk after the Spirit he
has sent to us to live in our hearts; the Spirit that allows us to cry "Abba
Father" with him.
You know...you must know, for it is plainly written in the Scripture you so
love to quote..that only those who DO walk in the Spirit are, as Paul points
out above, free from the law of sin and death, and that if you DON'T walk in
that liberty, much less if you go about trying to steal it from others all
the time, you don't have eternal life or peace with God. So this is MUCH
more than just about what day anyone thinks is the best day for publically
worshipping God. Again,, as Paul writes to us:
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day
alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that
regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. Romans 14:5-6a
(King James Version)
Donna: # "This graphic image conjures up the plight of one whose faults are
staring him in the face, like a contract brandished before its
acknowledged signatory. Our sinfulness is just as plain as a
documentary pledge, upon which is written our plain duty towards
God."5
Chuck: And if that's all you had tried to say in your initial post, you'd
have heard no challenge from me, for there is hardly anything more clearly
taught in Scripture than that all are wretched sinners, saved, if saved at
al by God's grace.
Donna: # "The effective action seems more to lie in the removal of a list
of
sins by wiping it clean. For this Isaiah 43:25 (LXX) provides some
anticipation: 'I am the one who wipes out (Gr. xaleiphon) your
iniquities and I will not remember them.'"6
Chuck: Again, had this been the thrust of your initial post, you would have
heard no objection from me, for again the proclamation and manifestation of
the Savior of the world, sent to wipe out the sins of the world is one of
THE consistent themes running though the entire Bible. It is what you try
to DO with that theme that demands my objection, Donna! God spends
MILLENNIA instructing mankind that when Shiloh comes his law will be done
away, having served it purpose (which was NEVER to save from sin; NEVER to
provide man with righteousness before God; NEVER given by God with ANY
expectation that it could be obeyed; but was ALWAYS the "schoolmaster" Paul
calls it to keep the world from becoming again as in the days of Noah, until
the time was right for God to send his Son into the world to save it "once,
for all"), and what do YOU spend your life doing? You go around trying to
convince all of us who have successfully ESCAPED the bondage of the law of
sin and death by FAITH that God's law is for sinners, to return to it!
Didn't you ever read Exodus?
10 And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes,
and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid:
and the children of Israel cried out unto the LORD.
11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast
thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus
with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt?
12 Is not this the word that we did tell thee in Egypt, saying, Let us
alone, that we may serve the Egyptians? For it had been better for us to
serve the Egyptians, than that we should die in the wilderness. Exodus
14:10-12 (King James Version)
Donna, you ARE the voice of these Israelites complaining to Moses, who is
the figure of Christ to come (Dt. 18:15). Christ has led us out of the sore
affliction of our bondage in Egypt, and you want us all to return! And when
someone tries to show you your madness, you say, in effect, to them, "Were
there not graves enough in the bondage of the law of sin and death that you
must lead us all into the wilderness of liberty in Chirst to die?"
You must put away the schoolteacher, Donna, take on Christ by faith and with
his grace BREAK the bondage, splinter the yoke of the law, and walk with the
true Israel, into the wilderness of liberty wherein there are no roads or
trails to follow, and only that pillar of smoke by day, and fire by night.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the
letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth
life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was
glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the
face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done
away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the
ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by
reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which
remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of
Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail
untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in
Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken
away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there
is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit
of the Lord. 2 Corinthians 3:6-18 (King James Version)
Donna, Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made
perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain; if it be
yet in vain. He that ministers the Spirit to you, and works miracles before
your eyes, does he do it by the works of the law, or according to faith?
Chuck
Donna Kupp
Donna wrote:
> Not my opinion
>
> # Samuele Bacchiocchi notes that the Greek word for law (nomos) does
> not exist in Colossians; therefore this handwriting that was canceled /
> wiped out cannot be the Law. Even scholars who disagree with his pro-
> Sabbath views recognize the strength of his position here.3
Chuck wrote:
>
> Chuck: To my knowledge, and I venture to guess, to everyone else's
> knowledge as well, including Bacchiocchi's, neitehr he nor those scholars
> who think some portion of his argument concerning Colossians has merit, were
> at the council in Jerusalem where James, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, and the
> elders decided the issue concerning the Law and the Church. I direct your
> attention to Acts 15 and if that's not enough for you, then to the fact God
> allowed his Temple, the supreme symbol and repository of the law he gave to
> Israel through Moses, to be TORN DOWN, "until not one stone shall rest upon
> another" ""until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled".
Donna writes:
Dear Reader --and Chuck,
Two apostles give us proof that the Jerusalem decree did not
eliminate The Ten Commandments (including the sabbath
commandment). They, unlike Chuck, knew that ancient Israel had
two laws; The Ten Commandments and "the yoke of bondage".*
"The yoke of bondage" contained ordinances that separated the
Jews from the Gentiles. For example: circumcision; the middle
wall of partition mentioned in Ephesians 2:11-16; and the food
laws.
Let's listen to the testimony of two unimpeachable witnesses WHO
DID ATTEND THE MEETING AT JERUSALEM:
PAUL
"Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but
{what matters is} THE KEEPING OF THE
COMMANDMENTS OF GOD."
Cor 7:19 (NAS)
JAMES
"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in
one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not
commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit
no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor
of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be
judged by the law of liberty." James 2:10-12 (KJV)
The One who said: "Do not kill", also said, "Remember
The Sabbath Day to keep it holy."
The decision of the council was a moral discipline, or
instruction, that served to show Gentiles things that were
deeply offensive to the Jews (and God). It also protected
them from drifting back into their old way of idolatry. The
apostles and elder's decision upheld the Ten Commandments,
just like Paul said:
"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means!
On the contrary, WE UPHOLD THE LAW."
Romans 3:31 RSV
Now, let us consider THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID ...
Before and after the resurrection of Christ, Gentiles were
joining themselves to the LORD. Because of their faith,
they were turning from their many gods to serve the Creator
of the heaven and the earth.
The council at Jerusalem declared the conversion of the
Gentiles as the fulfillment of the words of the prophets --
and they specifically quoted Amos 9:11
See: Acts 15:14-18.
The Mount Zion of ancient Israel is where David pitched
the tent that the apostles have called "The tabernacle of
David." That simple tent contained The Ten
Commandments in The Ark of The Covenant.
Amos, an old testament prophet, spoke of a time when the
tabernacle of David would be raised up and Gentiles would
join themselves to the Lord, we read:
"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is
fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up
his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they
may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen,
which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth
this." Amos 9:11-12 (KJV)
GENTILES MUST KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY
Today, the Gentiles who join themselves to the LORD, take
hold of the New Covenant that God made with the house of
Israel. Only those who keep the Sabbath holy and obey the
Covenant can come to "His holy mountain" and fulfill this
prophecy of Isaiah:
"Neither let the son of the stranger [Gentile], that hath
joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath
utterly separated me from his people ... the sons of the
stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him,
and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants,
EVERY ONE THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH FROM
POLLUTING IT, AND TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT;
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful
in my house of prayer: ... for mine house shall be called an house
of prayer for all people." Isa 56-3-7 (KJV)
The Scriptures are absolutely clear ... Those whom God
brings to His holy mountain are those who keep the
Sabbath:
"...the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the
LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to
be his servants, Every one that keepth the sabbath from
polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant EVEN
*THEM* WILL I BRING TO "MY HOLY MOUNTAIN"
"And I saw, and behold, the Lamb *STANDING ON THE
MOUNT ZION*, and with him a hundred and forty and
four thousand, having his name, and the name of his Father,
written on their foreheads." Rev 14:1 (ASV)
Donna Kupp
Note:
The Greek word for "handwriting of ordinances" which were
nailed to the cross (KJV) is "cheriographon" which means - a
certificate of debt.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that
was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the
way, nailing it to his cross;
I refer the reader to the original post of this thread: WHAT WAS
NAILED TO THE CROSS? Colossians 2:14 has nothing to do
with law. "cheriographon" refers to a certificate of debt. All men
have a debt to God for their past sins.
* I refer the reader to "The Two Laws" under related subjects
at the website below.
Chuck
Donna writes:
Dear Reader --and Chuck,
Chuck:
This is the strawman that Donna and her legalistic ilk invariably turn to
once it becomes apparent that the Law a) was never meant to provide or
produce righteousness before God, and b) is the "schoolmaster" that has now
been set aside for the believer in Christ, who by that faith is now a "son"
and an "heir", and no longer a "servant", the "letter" that, as Paul says,
produces "death" for us.
As I've said multiple times, and as is CLEAR from the New Testament, the
"law" was given by the Divine love of God, and is therefore only able to be
fulfilled as that Divine love is manifest in anyone's life, and as it WAS
manifest perfectly in the life of Jesus. That manifest Love taught both
that all the law must be fulfilled, but that not all the "law" must be
obeyed. Particularly any part of the "law" that spoke about special
observances of "days" dedicated to God's honor and worship.
Thus, we don't set aside, or seek to get others to set aside the law's
prohibitions of adultery, or theft, or murder, or envy, but we DO recognize
JESUS' and JESUS' INSPIRED APOSTLES' AND DISCIPLES' authority to MODIFY how
certain of those laws are to be obeyed, or can be obeyed, which cannot, and
which are to be set aside altogether, and it is my STRONG contention that
Donna Kupp is NOT one of these Apostles or disciples!
Further, even Donna her SELF will agree that the Christian is no longer
under the law of God as it pretains to the celebration of the annual feasts.
For example, it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to obey the command of God to
slaugheter a lamb and wipe it's blood on the doorpost of your house, and
that night eat the Passover meal, burning whatever is left of the lamb the
next morning. And why would Donna NOT advocate that we do that if she is
advocating we observe the Jewish Sabbath? Does she not make allowances for
the fact that Jewish Sabbath cannot be observed as the Jews did and still
do? In a synogogue? Denying the Savior has come? Of course not. Instead,
she ADAPTS the Jewish observation of the Sabbath, modifying it so she can
stuff it into some context SIMILAR TO, but not truly Christian.
Why is it not truly Christian? Because it DENIES SPECIFIC statements in the
New Testament telling the Christian NOT to try and make a "yoke" to place on
the necks of fellow believers out of when we are to publicly worship
God...so in Paul's letter to the Galatians, which stands as the DIRECT
condemnation of all who would seek to place upon the neck of another
believer some obligation to a day of the week:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the
grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would
pervert the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:6-7 (King James Version)
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the
grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands
of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the
circumcision. Galatians 2:9 (King James Version)
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might
be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by
the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are
found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a
transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ
liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith
of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the
law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:15-21 (King James Version)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the
truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth,
crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by
the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles
among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:1-5 (King James Version)
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Galatians 4:10-11 (King James Version)
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the
other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the
freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one
from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which
now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and
cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than
she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born
after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her
son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the
freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Galatians 4:21-31 (King James Version)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall
profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor
to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by
the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:1-4 (King James Version)
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for
an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed
one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of
the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the
flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the
things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Galatians
5:13-18 (King James Version)
What is amazing, then, to me, is that Donna Kupp seems to go on
pontificating as if Paul never wrote this epistle, which it seems was
dedicated to her and her ilk, and, in fact, it may very well have been. For
Paul wrote to the Galatians to try and RESTORE them to their faith, which
was crumbling under EXACTLY the same type of legalistic "Judaizing" as was
taking place in Galatia, and that prompted this letter!
The above is Paul's STRONG general condemnation of such calls to return to
observing the "Law" in hopes of being or becoming "righteous", but what is
fantastic to me is that not only is Donna condemn by God's word on a general
level, but also on a SPECIFIC level in that she advocates for believers
having to observe a certain day of worship during the week!
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an
holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Colossians 2:16 (King
James Version)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a
new moon or sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and
worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly
puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and
knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from
God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the
world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to
regulations--
21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the
commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed
religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value
against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-23 (New King James
Version)
It's as if Paul could look down through the ages and right into Donna Kupp's
heart, isn't it "dear reader"? I pray you are not lulled into the trap she
sets for the unwary and unstable in their faith, and that you will look for
yourselves into what is taught concerning the law of God in the New
Testament.
Chuck
Donna Kupp
Speaking of the writing of Paul, Peter said this:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these
things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they
that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other
scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things
before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the
wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
(Since Peter was addressing Christians, who had "precious faith", he
is warning them to beware of being led astray by the wicked who refuse
to obey God.) Read more about Peter's warning at this free link:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?u=1110823
Donna Kupp
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/show.php?i=630302&cat=0
Fred A Stover
removed as far as the east is from the west.
Only the devil and his Donna's try to remember them.
--
His,
More @ www.selah-tx.net
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the
Lord
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Verily I say unto you, Whosoever
shall not receive the kingdom of God
as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
(Mark 10:15)
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<)))))))><
::: Jesus is LORD :::
> Our sins were nailed to the cross never to be remembered. They've been
> removed as far as the east is from the west.
>
>
> Only the devil and his Donna's try to remember them.
Amen!