Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
news.tvd.be
I am looking about some information about the KIngdom of Shambala. How is
this KIngdom seen by the important Bouddhist traditions.
Can we reach these Kingdown via Tantric Yoga or will this Kingdom be
revealed to us in a near future.
Thanks in advance for any information about this subject.
KInd greetings from Belgium
Peace and love
Bruno
--
xxxxxxxxxxx
Bev Thornton
> I am looking about some information about the KIngdom of Shambala. How is
> this KIngdom seen by the important Bouddhist traditions.
It's from Northern Buddhism, Vajrayana, the kind from Tibet, Western
China, Mongolia, Kalmykia.
> Can we reach these Kingdown via Tantric Yoga or will this Kingdom be
> revealed to us in a near future.
haha. Who knows?
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/OkarResearch/index.html
http://www.kalachakra.com/Shambhala/Shambhala.htm
http://www.kalacakra.org/
http://kalachakranet.org/
Kalachakrapa
One should be careful of the Berzin Archives that are not very "Buddhist" in
attitude and can account for a lot of the anti-Kalachakra lobbies' attitudes
and which find fuel in his site. He holds weird views about many things and
such sectarian views as calling the Dalaï-Lama the Shambala Rikden King,
implicitely, and then explicitely later on. Berzin's own campaign against
Islamic sects seems improper to me, given his lack of scholarship and
impossibility to see Islam otherwise than through his own skewed racial bias.
His attitude seems to be mostly sectarian and self-serving, without
consideration for any real scholarship. His view is based on an inside vision
of the Kalachakra, without learning about the other traditions - that the
Kalachakra overlaps onto. He has no truely tolerant, interfaithful, ecumenical
view that can alone achieve the uniting of all religions to achieve a state of
"beyond conflict". Berzin fuels conflict without bringing any solution that
Kalachakra is prophecied to achieve. It will kill the Gods and then achieve
peace. Berzin is far from that.
Bev Thornton
> One should be careful of the Berzin Archives that are not very "Buddhist" in
> attitude and can account for a lot of the anti-Kalachakra lobbies' attitudes
> and which find fuel in his site.
Well, none of those sites are the Berzin Archives, but since you mention
them, here's a link to the Kalachakra/Shambhala section:
http://www.berzinarchives.com/kalachakra/index.html
> He holds weird views about many things and
> such sectarian views as calling the Dalaï-Lama the Shambala Rikden King,
> implicitely, and then explicitely later on.
Where?
Someone can be a rigden without being a Rigden King. A 'rigden' is just
someone who unifies. The 21st Kalki King, aka Rigden King, Aniruddha,
ascended the throne in 1927, before His Holiness was born.
> Berzin's own campaign against
> Islamic sects seems improper to me, given his lack of scholarship and
> impossibility to see Islam otherwise than through his own skewed racial bias.
There is no campaign against Islamic sects. Maybe you should read what
he actually wrote sometime. And check what he's actually done regarding
Buddhist-Islamic dialogue.
> His attitude seems to be mostly sectarian and self-serving, without
> consideration for any real scholarship.
He is a scholar, for many years working as a Fulbright Scholar. As for
his attitude, I don't know, I've never met him, have you?
> His view is based on an inside vision
> of the Kalachakra, without learning about the other traditions - that the
> Kalachakra overlaps onto. He has no truely tolerant, interfaithful, ecumenical
> view that can alone achieve the uniting of all religions to achieve a state of
> "beyond conflict". Berzin fuels conflict without bringing any solution that
> Kalachakra is prophecied to achieve. It will kill the Gods and then achieve
> peace. Berzin is far from that.
Outside, inside and other. Before worrying about interfaith tolerance,
maybe you could think a bit about intrafaith tolerance and the effect of
attempting to split the greater Sangha. The Kammavaranata Sutta is
relevant too:
<http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/kammavaranata_sutta.htm>
As for fueling conflict, well, the appearance in emptiness is what you make it.
There are no 'Gods' to be killed. The peace to be achieved is Shambhala,
which means 'basis of joy.' The storming prophecied is of that, of the
basis of joy. The 'war' is external, internal and hidden, not a war of
lands, but one of the personal means, struggle or striving in that way,
of the realization of the basis of joy, buddhanature.
If you want to study Kalachakra, the Ornament of Stainless Light is
available in English translation now.
<http://www.snowlionpub.com/search.php?item_no=ORSTLI>
Kalachakrapa
In our day and age a bad karma is to be a woman because this the age of
jealousy of women towards men tha tthey see as being privileged and having
better pays etc....and not having to bear children still...
So, the good karma in our day of modern times is A. B. C....
A. to be a man, not a woman.
B. to be a Westerner and not another race or nationality like Arab or Muslim
(thier messiah in several traditions like Shiism et al. is not a Muslim but out
of that religion), or Indian, Chinese etc... because the messiah of Buddhism is
not from there but a Westerner...and a male too...Bwa bwa bwa ! No female
Maitreya-Messiah !!! Ha ha ha !
Being an Indian is a non-worker because they have the Kalachakra
Urgyen-incarnation that goes against being an Indian, and they also have the
Islamic prophecy's non-Muslim messiah that announces a messiah that will not be
Islamic but that being a Westerner the Maitreya-Messiah prophecy cuts Indians
out of that deal, so that Indians are the odd-men out in this and don't get any
deal out of it apart from being stuc with their rotted corrupt old system
that's based on unequality between people and that counters all modern equality
between people. Equality is one thing but a female messiah is too far in terms
of equality because that's not announced in any prophecy of any religon so
Indians are really the last in line in terms of ruling the future. Being Indian
is about t he worst karma one can imagine at this time and the ticket to the
caboose of human reincarnations. Indians do basically suck, that seems
undisputable in terms of human devlopment. I guess a female Indian has to be
the bottom of all. And Hindu is the worst of all too because....
C. to be a Buddhist is the world's present best incarnation because this
enables to embrace the principles of the Kalachakra that those believing in
eternal principles like those of godhead cannot accept and thus exclude
themselves like deafmutes from all prophetic superiority
A. A male B. Western C. Buddhist. And I'd add PPPPPlonk ! And why not "period"
(?)!!! Plerionkkedd
Kalachakrapa
>Well, none of those sites are the Berzin Archives, but since you mention
>them, here's a link to the Kalachakra/Shambhala section:
>http://www.berzinarchives.com/kalachakra/index.html
>
Berzin's in the first link you give...scrolling down through it.
>Kalachakrapa
>> He holds weird views about many things and
>> such sectarian views as calling the Dalaï-Lama the Shambala Rikden King,
>> implicitely, and then explicitely later on.
>
>Where?
>
>Someone can be a rigden without being a Rigden King. A 'rigden' is just
>someone who unifies. The 21st Kalki King, aka Rigden King, Aniruddha,
>ascended the throne in 1927, before His Holiness was born.
He says it in the site you cite.
>He is a scholar, for many years working as a Fulbright Scholar. As for
>his attitude, I don't know, I've never met him, have you?
>
I talked to him a long time ago, fifteen years ago, before I got into the study
of Kalachakra and it's secret traditions that others and people like him don't
know.
Eternal claimed-to-be, "creator"-, claimed-to-be truely existing gods have to
be trampled, crushed and driven into the ground so that no trace exists any
longer of these monstrous devils.
All the modern world's demise issues (don't you have any ecological-friendly
conscience ?) from the cultures of these monsters whose descendants are now
dividing the world up amongst themselves as to who will give it the final
death-kiss and we'll be stuck with a vsat desert here on earth and will have
the simple to right to shut up. They'll have managed to succeed in their evil
deed til the dire end, wreaked upon us all. They'll have killed us. But we'll
come back from the dead, us the Shambala Warriors, to take them to their
deserved hell-rebirths. We will be the avengers of the Lord of Death against
all who have sinned in this world against us. Those who divde through
sectarianism will pay big-time. We will bring them all their karma to enjoy and
to expereince the result, not of our deeds, but of their very own.
The paranoia that is wreaked upon the world by modern man has to be payed for
and will be payed for till the last cent. Kalachakra will guarantee that for
sure and the prophecy s true. Doubting of the Kalachakra prophecy is a hard
karma to experience because one will not be among the chosen that the Tantra
predicts to save the world.
Berzin is not scholarly enough. At all. He's not really scholarly actually; one
can really not say that when one knows the sources correctly. Which sources he
doens't know of.
Bev Thornton
> Berzin's in the first link you give...scrolling down through it.
Oh, mere mention of Berzin the Bogeyman draws a polemic? That's
funny.
>>> such sectarian views as calling the Dalaï-Lama the Shambala Rikden King,
>>> implicitely, and then explicitely later on.
>>
>>Where?
>>
>>Someone can be a rigden without being a Rigden King. A 'rigden' is just
>>someone who unifies. The 21st Kalki King, aka Rigden King, Aniruddha,
>>ascended the throne in 1927, before His Holiness was born.
>
> He says it in the site you cite.
Where? And how?
Would you like to see where he asks His Holiness about the Dalai Lamas
as being incarnations of Kalki Pundarika? You can if you look at this
web page:
<http://www.berzinarchives.com/kalachakra/question_hh_initiation_3.html#_Toc30837895>
>I talked to him a long time ago, fifteen years ago, before I got into the study
>of Kalachakra and it's secret traditions that others and people like him don't
>know.
Ah, secret traditions. There's certainly lots of those. Do you suppose
he hasn't learned anything in the past fifteen years?
> Eternal claimed-to-be, "creator"-, claimed-to-be truely existing gods have to
> be trampled, crushed and driven into the ground so that no trace exists any
> longer of these monstrous devils.
That's a lot of bother for impermanent illusions. Maybe it would be best
to not speculate on what form the Turning of the Iron Wheel will take.
It's not relevant today, anyway.
>All the modern world's demise issues (don't you have any ecological-friendly
>conscience ?) from the cultures of these monsters whose descendants are now
>dividing the world up amongst themselves as to who will give it the final
>death-kiss and we'll be stuck with a vsat desert here on earth and will have
>the simple to right to shut up. They'll have managed to succeed in their evil
>deed til the dire end, wreaked upon us all. They'll have killed us. But we'll
>come back from the dead, us the Shambala Warriors, to take them to their
>deserved hell-rebirths. We will be the avengers of the Lord of Death against
>all who have sinned in this world against us. Those who divde through
>sectarianism will pay big-time. We will bring them all their karma to enjoy and
>to expereince the result, not of our deeds, but of their very own.
Does the doctrine of anatta ring a bell? There's no coming back from the
dead. Basic Buddhism, like this:
http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm
If you want to do something about the "world's demise," do it now.
Kala-chakra, time-wheel.
If you want to go on vengance crusades, that's some pretty heavy
grasping, you'll have to deal with that if you also want to follow the
Eightfold Path. Generation of metta-karuna and bodhicitta will help.
> The paranoia that is wreaked upon the world by modern man has to be payed for
> and will be payed for till the last cent. Kalachakra will guarantee that for
> sure and the prophecy s true. Doubting of the Kalachakra prophecy is a hard
> karma to experience because one will not be among the chosen that the Tantra
> predicts to save the world.
Understanding the prophecy takes practicing the actual tantra.
>Berzin is not scholarly enough. At all. He's not really scholarly actually; one
>can really not say that when one knows the sources correctly. Which sources he
>doens't know of.
Oh, and what sources are those?
Kalachakrapa
>Oh, mere mention of Berzin the Bogeyman draws a polemic? That's
>funny.
Berzin is such a mess that really one doesn't now where to begin.>Where? And
how?
>
>Would you like to see where he asks His Holiness about the Dalai Lamas
>as being incarnations of Kalki Pundarika? You can if you look at this
>web page:
>
><http://www.berzinarchives.com/kalachakra/question_hh_initiation_3.html#_
Toc30837895>
He says that many people consider him to be so but it's on *his* site and thus
his responablitiy to further the idea by that method.
>Ah, secret traditions. There's certainly lots of those. Do you suppose
>he hasn't learned anything in the past fifteen years?
Why not ? The relevance of your answer is difficult for me to follow (unless
you're a stupid moron, but that's not certain.)
>That's a lot of bother for impermanent illusions. Maybe it would be best
>to not speculate on what form the Turning of the Iron Wheel will take.
>It's not relevant today, anyway.
>
That's good because I just want the heretical thoughts of the blind-faith idiot
worshippers of godheads to be smashed and totally eradicated from the surface
of Earth, here.
>Does the doctrine of anatta ring a bell? There's no coming back from the
>dead. Basic Buddhism, like this:
>http://www.buddhanet.net/nutshell09.htm
>
>If you want to do something about the "world's demise," do it now.
>Kala-chakra, time-wheel.
>
>If you want to go on vengance crusades, that's some pretty heavy
>grasping, you'll have to deal with that if you also want to follow the
>Eightfold Path. Generation of metta-karuna and bodhicitta will help.
As long as the enemies of Buddhist Doctrine are completely vanquished and
trodden underfoot. Quick and totally. And without reprieve; ever, ever.
>Understanding the prophecy takes practicing the actual tantra.
Those who realize it and attain enlightenment by it will be realized.
>Oh, and what sources are those?
Those sources are those that the Kalachakra prophecy announces and that is to
"rely on Secret Teachings" Nowadays the most precious of all Tibetan Teachings
are the complete Tantra Collection that my guru Phende Kenchen possesses and is
the sole holder of seeing the only other direct lineage holder from Tibet is
now old and feeble and unable to give the year-long teaching ( called the Gyu
De Kun Tus - i.e. "Collection of all the Tantras"). If the prophecy of
preserving the Tibetan tradition within the Kalachakra and Shambala is to
realize, it is only through this transmission of the Gyu De Kun Tus, seeing all
the big Tantric tradition-lineages are lost as of now already (I've sent to
Norbu's thread the link to the Karmapa Thaye Dorje site that states this). So
this announces the Armageddon of Tibetan Buddhism announced in the
Kalachakra-prophecy... and also it's salvation through the preserving of it
within the Kalachakra.... through incorporating into it's ceremonies, the Gyu
De Kun Tus..... or giving it under the protection of the Kalachakra and
Shambala. plonk.
Bev Thornton
> Berzin is such a mess that really one doesn't now where to begin.
Oh. That must be what makes it so difficult to demonstrate where he
states what you claim.
> He says that many people consider him to be so but it's on *his* site and thus
> his responablitiy to further the idea by that method.
Furthering the idea by that method is why the web-site was made.
So, back to the question, where is the statement you claim exists? the
one about His Holiness being Chogyal Magagpa, Aniruddha, the 21st Kulika
King, Rigden King. Where is that statement?
>>Ah, secret traditions. There's certainly lots of those. Do you suppose
>>he hasn't learned anything in the past fifteen years?
>
> Why not ? The relevance of your answer is difficult for me to follow (unless
> you're a stupid moron, but that's not certain.)
Berzin has his own secret traditions to follow. Yours may not be the
same. There's certainly lots of secret traditions. There's also a lot of
difference between fifteen years of study and fifteen years of practice.
>That's good because I just want the heretical thoughts of the blind-faith idiot
>worshippers of godheads to be smashed and totally eradicated from the surface
>of Earth, here.
Then you've got a lot to deal with in yourself.
> As long as the enemies of Buddhist Doctrine are completely vanquished and
> trodden underfoot. Quick and totally. And without reprieve; ever, ever.
There are no enemies of Buddhist doctrine other than those created as
illusions within your own mind. What appear as enemies are to be dealt
with by patience, compassion and bodhicitta.
>Those sources are those that the Kalachakra prophecy announces and that is to
>"rely on Secret Teachings" Nowadays the most precious of all Tibetan Teachings
>are the complete Tantra Collection that my guru Phende Kenchen possesses and is
>the sole holder of seeing the only other direct lineage holder from Tibet is
>now old and feeble and unable to give the year-long teaching ( called the Gyu
>De Kun Tus - i.e. "Collection of all the Tantras"). If the prophecy of
>preserving the Tibetan tradition within the Kalachakra and Shambala is to
>realize, it is only through this transmission of the Gyu De Kun Tus, seeing all
>the big Tantric tradition-lineages are lost as of now already (I've sent to
>Norbu's thread the link to the Karmapa Thaye Dorje site that states this). So
>this announces the Armageddon of Tibetan Buddhism announced in the
>Kalachakra-prophecy... and also it's salvation through the preserving of it
>within the Kalachakra.... through incorporating into it's ceremonies, the Gyu
>De Kun Tus..... or giving it under the protection of the Kalachakra and
>Shambala. plonk.
When Tibetan politics interferes with Tibetan, Vajrayana Buddhism, the
result quite often does not correspond to Sutra nor bears the Four
Seals. that means it is not The Buddha's teaching, not Buddhism, just
politics.
Evelyn Ruut
geir is not well. one cannot reason with him. he only hears the sounds in
his own head.
--
Regards,
Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")
"Bev Thornton" <Repl...@Not.Invalid> wrote in message
news:30q52kF...@uni-berlin.de...
Krishnacharya1
>Oh. That must be what makes it so difficult to demonstrate where he
>states what you claim.
Berzin in the opening lines of his link says that Buddhism waged religious war
just like the other religions, and this, contrary to what is largely said by
Buddhists, namely that it is the only religion, with Hinduism, that didn't ever
wage religious war. Berzin is anti-Buddhist.
>Furthering the idea by that method is why the web-site was made.
The idea here is that the Dalaï-Lama is the King. You're in left field by
saying that "that's why the site was made".
>So, back to the question, where is the statement you claim exists? the
>one about His Holiness being Chogyal Magagpa, Aniruddha, the 21st Kulika
>King, Rigden King. Where is that statement?
Why don't you read Berzin's site and check out where he says that the
Dalaï-Lama, indeed, is the Rikden Shambala-King ?
>Berzin has his own secret traditions to follow. Yours may not be the
>same. There's certainly lots of secret traditions. There's also a lot of
>difference between fifteen years of study and fifteen years of practice.
I don't know what agenda you're skuttling after, but I'd like you to know who I
am. I've been recognized as a Tibetan reincarnation by Phende Kenchen, the head
of the second largest Tibetan sect of Buddhism (the Ngorpas - 80 % of Sakya).
I'm a practitionner that's been a thirty-three year-long Buddhist. I speak
Tibetan which I studied for five years at Paris University with Heather
Stoddard.
>Then you've got a lot to deal with in yourself.
What you should know is who you're talking to. Shooting off your mouth isn't
all that difficult, is it ? If you're defending monotheistic religion just say
so so we know where you'r coming from, eh ?
>There are no enemies of Buddhist doctrine other than those created as
>illusions within your own mind. What appear as enemies are to be dealt
>with by patience, compassion and bodhicitta.
>
I don't think you know my mind and probably because you don't know your own, eh
? Bwa bwa bwa !
>When Tibetan politics interferes with Tibetan, Vajrayana Buddhism, the
>result quite often does not correspond to Sutra nor bears the Four
>Seals. that means it is not The Buddha's teaching, not Buddhism, just
>politics.
You're consitently coming across as sectarian. I've not done any sectarianism,
just stated the fact that the only one holding the direct Tibetan lineage for
the full Tantric transmission is Phende Kenchen. If you claim this to be
untrue, just say so. And leave sect-hatred and political whimpering outside :
the Buddha did no politics as for Him.
Bev Thornton
>geir is not well. one cannot reason with him. he only hears the sounds in
>his own head.
That's okay. I'm the same way.
om namo bhagawate bekhadze guru vaidurya prabha rajaya tathagataya
arhate samyaksambuddhaya tadyatha om bekhadze bekhadze maha bekhadze
bekhadze randzaya samugate soha
Krishnacharya1
>dear bev,
>
>geir is not well. one cannot reason with him. he only hears the sounds in
>his own head.
Very possible. In the Ngorpa school women weren't allowed inside the monastery
premises. I guess people like you weren't allowed to talk to monks in the
Ngorpa tradition (so that says a lot about what the response to your hot air
would be [have been at that time].). The Ngorpa school is so precious because
not only did it continue the holy Buddha's monastic tradition without the
corruption such as in the Gelugpa monasteries where pedofilia was rampant and
well-documetend (can someone post the many links about this, please ?) but also
it continued the pure Tantric tradition, the core of Buddha's Teaching and the
only path followed by all the Buddhas of the three times to attain fully
enlightened Nirvana (so this is also different from the Gelugpas because they
didn't allow Tantric study until the post-Geshe state, which eliminated about
99,9999 % of the people in the monasteries under them, when one thinks that the
Tantric path is extremely hard and off-limits for such old persons as Geshe
graduates that already were in their forties going on fifty - and given that
the life-span in Tibet was on average of thirty-five years old. Ha ha ha
!!!!.).
Krishnacharya1
>dear bev,
>
>geir is not well. one cannot reason with him. he only hears the sounds in
>his own head.
Bad mouth away.
You've done it before and will do it again.
Strengthens the people who hate you.
It also strengthens the people who say that the Buddha was right to not have
given women the nuns' vows until they asked it repeatedly, thus preserving the
monks from the rotting of their reputatoins and vows. Women with vows and who
would get raped would thus break them involuntarily and thus not be able to
prootect the chastity part. Buddha protected women from becoming celibate rape
victims and by remaining protected against rape by their husbands. He also
protected from the bad karma of being responsible of corrupting the Sangha vows
and thus shortening the life of the Dharma in history and thus having a bad
karma to carry for that. Shortening the life of the Dharma would have been a
very negative karma by harming countless beings in so doing. Buddha was thus a
true feminist in preventing women to accumulate that bad karma and preventing
them from being the prey of stalkers.
If you can't hold your tongue, it's a sign that the Buddha was forseeing in
protecting the Doctrine and not putting it the hands of people that are evil.
I didn't say women are evil. I said the doctrine would have been shortened if
He had given nuns vows. That's what He said. At least He put it off for a long
time. Secondly, the full vows weren't given in Tibet which was a godsend.
Otherwise the full vows of monks wouldn't have held out so strongly as they
did until today. Now it's all finished but at least we had that to go on to
ffuther things today. The sins still endure under the surface though and the
causes for the Buddha to have acted thus are still there. Best to hold your
tongue, Evelyn.
You don't do womens' cause any good by dirtying the Buddha is your posts.
You stack up the whole ng against you when you go on your Crusades. I don't get
Pema who is down on you for it, but thinks it all irons out on the pillow when
we make up. Hey gang ! Evelyn's been a crazy from day one so, how can we expect
the leopard to change it's spots ?
People don't realize that Evelyn *can only hear* the sounds in her head,
because she has no erudition of Buddhism such as mine to compare with. She
attacks me on charcter but leaves all discussion on intelligence that we could
have aside, because she's not equipped to even broach it. As for character, as
I say, she has the whole ng stacked against (they're sleeping right now but you
know what they say : "Don't wake up a sleeping dog" - and when they wake up
it'll be full pandemonium here when Evelyn calls the hounds out. She's like the
Eskimo mutt-leader mushers. Very refined and really the kind of thing you'd
like about Tibetan Buddhism showing to the world (!!!!) Evelyn is the epitome
of refinement, very reminiscient of the Italian Renassance and the Floretine
School. Bwa bwa bwa !!! "Pearls to Swine". That's what it is. Bleah ! Like
Charlie Brown would say. Plonk, period. Plearionkd !)
Evelyn, have you ever studied the Dharma ? Do you so much as read Tibetan ? If
I were you, I wouldn't advise people and would be humble if I had your low
erudution. Being humble is a Buddhist virtue, just if you didn't know it. Why
do you bad mouth a lot ? It's sure bad for the KTT. And they're waiting for
the Gyu De Ku Tus from us to save their sect. So ? Where's the beef with
dirtying the people you (they) want teachings from ? The priority os respect to
the guru and the gur is the one you want teachings from and should be hamble
and respectful to. karmapa.org sure doesn't act rough to the people who they
want those ongs from. Their site states that they need those ongs to survive as
a sect. So, what's with doing that bad mouthing. Why don't you go ask them if
they can have the ongs and still bad mouth the sect giving it ? You should
choose what you want to do : bad mouth or shut up.
Bev Thornton
>Berzin in the opening lines of his link says that Buddhism waged religious war
>just like the other religions, and this, contrary to what is largely said by
>Buddhists, namely that it is the only religion, with Hinduism, that didn't ever
>wage religious war. Berzin is anti-Buddhist.
Ashoka, the Kalinga War. Hinduism isn't exactly a single religion, there
have been plenty of wars over time, India wasn't always the country it
is now.
> The idea here is that the Dalaï-Lama is the King. You're in left field by
> saying that "that's why the site was made".
No, the site exists as a furthering of Alexander Berzin's expression of
Dharma, his practice.
> Why don't you read Berzin's site and check out where he says that the
> Dalaï-Lama, indeed, is the Rikden Shambala-King ?
I've read the site. I don't remember such a statement.
>I don't know what agenda you're skuttling after, but I'd like you to know who I
>am. I've been recognized as a Tibetan reincarnation by Phende Kenchen, the head
>of the second largest Tibetan sect of Buddhism (the Ngorpas - 80 % of Sakya).
>I'm a practitionner that's been a thirty-three year-long Buddhist. I speak
>Tibetan which I studied for five years at Paris University with Heather
>Stoddard.
That's nice. Then you must know all about what happens when your
practice gets derailed or when dabbling in tantras without abhisheka and
instruction or when there is a problem with lung (rlung) and all that
sort of thing.
And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
this newsgroup?
> What you should know is who you're talking to. Shooting off your mouth isn't
> all that difficult, is it ? If you're defending monotheistic religion just say
> so so we know where you'r coming from, eh ?
I'm coming from the Gelug or Ganden Tradition. Can't you tell?
>>There are no enemies of Buddhist doctrine other than those created as
>>illusions within your own mind. What appear as enemies are to be dealt
>>with by patience, compassion and bodhicitta.
>
>I don't think you know my mind and probably because you don't know your own, eh
>? Bwa bwa bwa !
I don't need to know your mind or my own to know that 'enemy' is an
impression made on sunyata. I only need to know The Buddha's teachings
on the subject and to do the practices that make those teachings
obvious.
> You're consitently coming across as sectarian. I've not done any sectarianism,
> just stated the fact that the only one holding the direct Tibetan lineage for
> the full Tantric transmission is Phende Kenchen. If you claim this to be
> untrue, just say so. And leave sect-hatred and political whimpering outside :
> the Buddha did no politics as for Him.
The Buddha taught nothing about trampling and destroying illusory gods
and especially not about killing those who follow such idols. There are
teachings meant to be taken literally and others to be taken
figuratively and they should never be confused, even in eclipse.
GeirSmith
>Ashoka, the Kalinga War. Hinduism isn't exactly a single religion, there
>have been plenty of wars over time, India wasn't always the country it
>is now.
The exception that confirms the rule. The detail you omitted is his conversion
to a devout Buddhist rule and a total change in method. From what I see,
polemics seem to be your motive rather than anything. I'm not into polemics.
I'm into Tantrism only and the Gyu De Kun Tus teaching that incidentally is
indicated because it is the only possible way, today to preserve Tibetan
Tantric Buddhism in it's Secret tradition (this is the part indicated that
secret tradition will be preserved in the Kalachakra. This being solely in the
Gyu De... today, it has to be it. Without it the traditions will go extinct. I
posted the links to the Karmapa speaking about this on site but you haven't
requested *that*. Bwa bwa bwa ! Afraid to ask for that ? Afraid to see the
Karmapa asking for the Gyu De Kun Tus ? You're cowards here on ARBT.)
.>No, the site exists as a furthering of Alexander Berzin's expression of
>Dharma, his practice.
Berzin is wrong on his positions.
>I've read the site. I don't remember such a statement.
O.K. I can't help you remember, its not in my power. The Buddha said : "I've
shown you the way, it's up to you to tread it yourself." Tread.
>That's nice. Then you must know all about what happens when your
>practice gets derailed or when dabbling in tantras without abhisheka and
>instruction or when there is a problem with lung (rlung) and all that
>sort of thing.
>
>And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
>this newsgroup?
>
Who are you ?
I've repeatedly posted here about the intitiations my guru has that he is the
only one to have and that the rest of the lineages needs to save their Tantric
teachings, so respect for that is in due; unless one turns against Tantric
tradition and considers it no longer necessary, writing it off. Are the
intiations that the Karmapa has requested wrong ? The Dalaï-Lama has stated
that Tantric teachings are the supreme teachings and that only by practising
them can one attain fully realized Enlightement.
>I'm coming from the Gelug or Ganden Tradition. Can't you tell?
--------------------------------
>I don't need to know your mind or my own to know that 'enemy' is an
>impression made on sunyata. I only need to know The Buddha's teachings
>on the subject and to do the practices that make those teachings
>obvious.
I don't speak Chinese.
>The Buddha taught nothing about trampling and destroying illusory gods
>and especially not about killing those who follow such idols. There are
>teachings meant to be taken literally and others to be taken
>figuratively and they should never be confused, even in eclipse.
>
In practice I don't practise immoral practises.
People should gather to save real Buddhism from women, Orientals, and people
who object to the wholesale wanton destruction of gods that are attributed to
have created the world etc....Bev, alone here (I never brought this up...)
talks about "killing those who follow such idols". I can't stop her from
entertaining such heretical thoughts and falsely making use of them. But
slander, lying and rough language are widespread throughout the world and I
can't control this even with the best of intents.
This post here has started seeing vatly slanderous attitudes emerging like
usual : the first three posts are outwardly vaguely civil in tone and then once
my points start hitting home the post no logner answer my points but go on
offensiveness offensives of their own free choice. Then the objects get out of
control and madness kicks in. What to do ? I've posted here for a time but have
I found anyone with scholarship who knows about what I'm talking about ?
Norbu's learning is too limited, Pema is just a flower-child, Tuckard is just a
wild card, George's forgotten to get a return-ticket from above, Billy Hooper's
cfazy, so, .....
Kalachakrapa
>And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
>this newsgroup?
Forget about Kalachakra, forget about women (I have no gripes with them -
Pema's my love and when Ev isn't pissed, she stays quiet; I get along with the
others too.), forget about Gods and their crushing.
Do you see a problem with giving the Gyu De KunTus so as to save the Tantric
tradition of Tibet ?
Do you see a problem with the only one possessing the complete transmission
passing it on to others, which is what I'm posting about on this ng (forget
about all the other minor subjects next to this) ?
Do you have a problem with this ? Here is Karmapa asking for the teachings and
then the link to where it says that Phende Kenchen, my guru, is the only one
with has transmission (in direct line and not in broken transmission from
Tibet). When the teaching is mentioned in his biography, the expression "very
few possess the lineage of this teaching", it refers, in fact, just to him and
Chogye Trichen, his co-disciple, who received it. All others have only received
it outside of the real Tibetan origin. His co-disciple now being too old to
give it, all rests on Phende Kenchen's shoulders for the Gyu De Kun Tus. Thus,
I send here the links to A..this teaching being vital to the survival of the
Tantrism of Tibet, that only the Red Hats preserved until now B. that it rests
solely on Phende Kenchen's shoulders now as for it's pure Tibetan orgin. Other
subjects, Kalachakra, women, God, Allah, are trifling to me. They are all, in
gist at least, saved or subsummed within the preserving of the core Tibetan
Tantric tradition the supreme Teaching of Lord Buddha, this saving by Phende
Kenchen of the world Buddhist tradition that he has become the last holder of.
All other less educated masters than him can difficultly avoid his benediction
or the seeking of it. Making by without the Tantric blessing of the previous
Buddhas' and the present one seems totally mad and utopic to me, but madmen can
try it. I read it stated repeatedly in the texts that the Buddhas of the three
times all attained fully realized Enlightenment by these teachings alone. That
this is the sole path followed by them all. If someone has discovered a path
superior to this pleas inform us of it immediately. All frauds and uneducated
upstarts, please abstain from polluting these boards (as Tang would say).
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
H.H. receiving important initiations
The Karmapa was invited to the family home of Sandy Yen, a benevolent
sponsor of the Karma Kagyu School, to conduct teachings and initiations at the
Bodhipath Karma Kagyu Buddhist Center in Menlo Park.
At this time H.H. Karmapa also wanted to receive certain Kagyupa Tantra
initiations from Ludhing Khenchen Rinpoche of the Sakya School, who is 73 years
old. The 17th Karmapa recommended that this was the right place to receive the
initiations because of the pure and peaceful surroundings.
Over fifty very prominent Kagyu Tantras were brought from India to Tibet by the
Great Marpa Lotsawa in the 11th Century. These Tantras were preserved by the
Sakya Lineage for three generations from the early 19th century when the Kagyu
Lineage was in decline. A collection of fourteen Tantras were kept directly in
the Kagyu Lineage, and the rest continued to be secured within the Sakya
Lineage.
Difficulties in the Kagyu lineage had started during the time of the Tenth
Karmapa, Choying Dore, The Lineage was almost totally decimated when the 5th
Dalai Lama’s Prime Minister, Sonam Chopel invited the Mongolian warlord
Gushri Khan into Tibet in 1638. A bloody war was waged that destroyed the
ruling government of Tibet which at that time was under the “Spiritual
King,” the Karmapa. Over sixty years later during the time of the 12th
Karmapa, Jangchup Dorje (1703-1732) and the 8th Shamarpa, Chokyi Thondrub, the
8th Situ, Chokyi Jungne restored the Marpa Lineage teachings.
In the middle of the 18th century the Dalai Lama’s Regent, Kundeling
slandered the 10th Shamarpa, Chodrub Gyatso to their Emperor in Beijing. The
Emperor forcibly subdued all Kagyu activity throughout Tibet and the Shamarpa
incarnations were banned by official decree. At that time the Karma Kagyu
Lineage again became weak and almost disappeared.
In the early 19th century the well known scholar Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye
voluntarily searched throughout Tibet for the Marpa Lineage Tantras and
collected them from Lamas everywhere. He compiled the “Kagyu Tantra
Treasure” ( Kagyu Ngakdzo) of fourteen Tantras. Later he collected over forty
more Marpa Tantras. Then disaster struck once again, this time from within the
Kagyu Lineage. Kuzhab Situ Pema Kunzang (10th Situ throne holder) had been
jealous of Kongtrul’s fame and activity. Kongtrul was in fact a lower ranking
lama in Situ’s own Palpung Monastery. Situ had Kongtrul expelled from his
monastery and gave specific orders that none were to receive teachings from
him. Since Kongtrul could no longer spread the Marpa Tantras among the Kagyus,
he requested a great lama of the Sakya school, Jamyang Loter Wangpo to hold the
complete Marpa Tantra transmissions and he predicted that in the future they
would be returned to the Kagyupa tradition.
The 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje wanted to receive these Tantras from
Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche in the mid-1960s in Sikkim. At that time, Sikkim was
an independent Maharaja state. However, the Maharaja would not give permission
for Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche to come to Sikkim. It is only now after almost two
centuries that this Tantra transmission is being returned to the Kagyu lineage.
H.H. the 17th Karmapa originally wanted to receive the Marpa Tantras from the
great Sakya Lama, Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche. However, he is now quite old and
his health does not permit him to give long initiations. Therefore, Karmapa
requested to receive them from another prominent Sakya lama, Ludhing Khenchen
Rinpoche. His Holiness the 17th Karmapa asked that the Shamarpa obtain the over
forty Marpa Tantras from the Sakya Lama and he would then like to receive them
from Shamar Rinpoche himself. The Shamarpa replied that he would give the first
collection of Jamgon Kongtrul’s Marpa Transmission, the “Kagyu Ngakdzo,”
to the 17th Karmapa which Shamar Rinpoche had received twice from The 16th
Karmapa and to save time they would receive the other forty Tantras together.
As a matter of fact, the Sakyas keep the Tantric precepts and discipline pure
and carefully. Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so
you should do a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the
transmission to Kagyu lamas.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
A Short Biography
(A translation from the French original by R.M.L. Samuel)
His Eminence Phende Rinpoche was born early in the year of the Water bird, 1934
into a family of tantric practitioners (ngakpas) in the Tharlam district of the
Gaba region of Kham, Eastern Tibet. Early on the great sage Jamgon Ngawang Lepa
whose Tharlam Monastery lay close to the child's birthplace recognised in him
the signs of a Tulku. But he was two or three years of age when officially
recognised as the reincarnation of Ngor Phende Khenchen Jamyang Kunzang Thupden
Chokyi Gyaltsen; this by the two respective head lamas of Sakya Monastery's
Dolma (Kyabgon Kunga Rinchen) and Phuntsok (Dagchen Ngawang Thotup Wangchuk)
palaces, who after praying at length to the powerful Sakya protectors had made
very precise prophesies as to the family and (re) birth-place of this
reincarnation lineage which goes back to the great Indian Siddha Birwapa. At
the time of his birth auspicious signs had manifested in the sky, and his body
bore certain physical features of this line such as the markings of a tiger
skin.
Thus recognised, the young Phende Rinpoche was given a careful education and a
large number of profound teachings by his first root-guru Jamgon Ngawang Legpa
who was renowned throughout Tibet for his wisdom and realisation. In this way
he received at an early age the profound Lamdre Lobshey teachings (The Path and
its Result). Later he was to receive from him the Lam Dre Tsog Shey, and on a
number of occasions the great initiations of Hevajra, the seven mandalas of the
Ngor tradition, Naro Khachoma, Vajrabhairava, the Guardian-Protectors, the
Protections of Birwapa, and others along with a large number of commentaries.
With his uncle and teacher Ngawang Rinchen, head preceptor at Tharlam Monastery
he studied and memorised all the ritual texts. Hence by seven years of age he
knew by heart the mandala rituals of Hevajra, the nine-deity Amitayus,
Vairochana, Maitreya Buddha, Vajra-akshobya etc. At this age also he was
enthroned and had to leave the family home. There then followed for him a
period of study and intensive practice.
At nine years of age he received from his guru the vows of an accomplished lay
disciple, and a few months later his novitiate vows; also a number of
initiations from Phende Khen Rinpoche Ngawang Khedrup Gyamtso, a perfectly
accomplished and very saintly Lama who thus became his second Root-Guru. There
next ensued for the young Tulku a period of retreat lasting several years
during which he accomplished the retreats of Bhutadamara, Kunrik Vairochana,
Amitayus, White Tara, and the Lords of the Three Families.
He then received from Phende Khen Rinpoche the monunemtal teaching known as
"The Collection of all the Tantras (Gyu De Kun tus): a comprehensive collection
of all the great initiations with their mandalas and mandala rituals, a rare
teachung of which very few possess the lineage. This instruction lasted three
years during which he nonetheless continued in the pursuit of his studies. He
received from the Grand Abbot Ngaga of Jyekundo the eighteen great
philosophical treatises of six different categories, studied according to
Sakyapa custom and passed all the examinations brilliantly. He likewise
received from this source teaching on many other tantric texts, such as "The
General Catalogue of the Tantras", the Tag pa Nyi (The Two Examinations") etc.
Later he completed his astrological studies, studying all of the principal
texts and was finally able to compose the calendar of a full year which he
posted on the door of the temple at Jyekundo for the benefit of all. He also
studied and mastered the different types of physical yoga and related
activities. And he received partly from Lama Ngaga and partly from Phende Khen
Rinpoche the complete collection of initiations and sadhanas known as the Drup
Thab Kuntu compiled by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and completed by his student
Loter Wangpo.
After this five year period of study and practice at Jyekundo monastery he
began a new period of retreat with the retreat of Naro Khachoma, of whom he
received numerous signs. He was also fully successful in accomplishing the
Pho'wa practice of transference of consciousness. After this he accomplished
the retreat of Mahakala whose manifest and certain protection accompanied him
in all of the many dangers he would meet on the road, with the Chinese, and in
many events of his life. On completion of this retreat, as the 21 Ngor
monasteries of the Gaba region had long been asking him to do, he undertook to
visit them all. All of these monasteries and the neighbouring country-side were
under a rule and laws established by the great Palden Tcheu Tchiong, the first
Tibetan of H.E. Phende Rinpoche's reincarnation lineage. Thus it naturally fell
to him to check the respect in which these rules and laws were held. He began
with the monastery of Tharlam where he was welcomed with great ceremony, then
toured the other 20 monasteries giving numerous initiations and teachings. It
was only at the end of this long period of travelling that he at last undertook
for the first time the lengthy journey to his monastery of Ngor Ewam Choden,
situated in the Tsang region of Tibet itself, lying more than three month's
journey from Kham. He was accompanied on this journey by the Venerable Khen
Chen Nwawang Khedrup Gyamtso and a numerous following. He was welcomed on his
arrival by the four "Ladrangs" (Houses of Ngor). Then began preparations for
his occupancy of the throne of Ngor when his turn should come. The throne was
occupied for three consecutive years by the head of one Ladrang, then came the
turn of the head of another Ladrang, and so on for the four Ladrangs, each of
their turns thus recurring every twelve years. During his three year occupation
of the throne the Lama had to teach the Lam Dre annually and many other
teachings besides. Equally he had to administer the monks of all the affiliated
monasteries who could only receive ordination by going to the seat of Ngor Ewam
Choden. And when the Lama had held the throne of Ngor in this way for three
years he was given the title of Khenpo, signifying Abbot.
Thus the young Phende Rinpoche had to recite from memory before a great
assembly of monks the four treatises as required by the rule. Then throughout a
full year he had to preside over all the assemblies devoted to recitation of
all the great mandala rituals in usage at Ngor, participating in the
preparation of mandalas, establishing the measures, casting the coloured
powders etc. During his stay at Ngor he received from the very holy and
illustrious Khenchen Tampa Rinpoche of the Khangsar Ladrang a large number of
initiations and teachings, such as the initiations of the seven mandalas of
Ngor, the common and uncommon cycles of the three Reds, the initiation of White
Mahakala, Vajrakilaya (Tele and Mele), Naro Khachoma, each of the protectors of
the eight-fold Mahakala cycle, Hevajra, Vajrabhairava, etc.
These comprehensive teachings lasted several months and the great Tampa
Rinpoche thus became his third Root Guru. Then, and from this time from
Khenchen Ngawang Khedrup who had meanwhile become the throne-holder and thus
seated on the red throne of the great Ngorchen Dorje Chang Kunga Zangpo, he
received the Lam Dre Tsog Shey teachings, also the vows of a fully ordained
monk (gelong), and further numerous initiations. Afterwards he himself gave a
great number of initiations at Ngor. At this time be began an eighteen month
Hevajra retreat followed by a retreat of the three Reds, above all Kurukulle of
whom he also obtained numerous signs. At the end of this first stay at Ngor,
which lasted over four years, he left again for Kham where he remained for
several years alternating studies at the monastery of Jyekundo with retreats at
the Dzuphu Ladrang. Then on the pressing invitation of the Ngor monasteries in
several regions of Kham he undertook yet another long journey leading to the
Nangchen region of Dema, then to Derge where at the monastery of Gonchen for
approximately a month he conducted the great ritual of Hevajra and the Torma
ritual of Vajrabhairava, reuniting seven branch monasteries into one.
As relations with the Chinese became ever more tense and the situation at Derge
deteriorated dangerously, Rinpoche continued on his way to Konjo, then to Gaba.
During the course of this lengthy circuit he had accepted invitations from more
than sixty monasteries and given an incalculable number of initiations and
teachings. Back in Gaba, the Chinese becoming menacing, he decided to flee from
Kham making a wide detour through the extensive deserts of the Northern Plains
(Chang Thang). Thus during 1957-58 he arrived at Ngor where, the situation only
worsening, he decided to flee to India accompanied by his mother, his tutor
uncle, and some twenty servants. By chance his party met up with that
accompanying His Holiness Sakya Trizin who was likewise fleeing to India. In
1959 they simultaneously arrived in Sikhim. Here he met Kyentse Rinpoche
Jamyang Chokyi Lodro and received from H.H. Sakya Trizin the great initiation
of Chakrasamvara. He then went to Mussourie where he often met His Holiness the
Dalai Lama who had recently arrived there.
During his ten year stay in India he succeeded in re-establishing at Kamrao the
Jyekundo monastery with refugee monks, while a certain number of Ngor
monasteries were likewise reconstituted with great difficulty. During these ten
years he repeatedly gave many initiations and teachings whilst continuing his
own daily practice without interruption.
Taking note of the growing interest of Westerners in Buddhism and being invited
to Great Britain by the Samye Ling Tibetan Centre in Scotland, he arrived there
in 1969 and remained teaching there for several months. Then having decided on
the support of a consort, the mudra possessed of the charactaristics and
learned in the Tantras as the Path to Awakening , he thus repeatedly prayed to
Mahakala. Thus he met at Cambridge a young French woman who was to become his
wife Jamyang Khandro, who possessed all the qualities of faith and respect for
the Dharma and who was moreover already conversant with the Tibetan language
and script. Settling in France with the idea of founding a centre there, he
succeeded a few years later in 1974 in establishing Ngor Ewam Phende Ling in
Normandy with the help of his disciples . Here he has since given numerous
profound teachings including the complete Lam Dre; numerous initiations such as
those of Hevajra, Vajrayogini, Bhutadamara, the Protectors, the Wealth Deities,
Avalokitesvara, Tara, Vajrasattva, Manjusri, and Sakya Pandita; and numerous
explanations on practice, on the tantric root vows, the Noble Discourses of
Sakya Pandita (Leg she), the lives of the Mahasiddhas, and others besides.
Meanwhile three sons were born to him, Jamyang Nyima in 1972, Jigme Dorje in
1973, and Jampal Yeshe in 1981. All three have been recognised as Tulkus.
His Eminence Phende Rinpoche was later able with the help of his disciples to
establish two additional centres in France: Ngor Ewam Kunzang Ling in Paris,
and Ngor Ewam Cho Ling at Poitiers. He now travels regularly to India; and to
Taiwan where he has established two centres, one in Taipei and the other in
Tainan. He hopes, with the help of his disciples there and in France, to be in
a position to provide regular help to all the Sakyapa monasteries in India.
With the support of his disciples, principally those from Taiwan, he has
already been able to establish his main seat of Phende Ladrang in the head
monastery of Ngor Ewam Choden at Manduwala in North West India.
Subsidiary notes on the Tradition. The Ngor Ewam Choden monastery, of which His
Eminence Phende Rinpoche was thus recognised as one of the heads of one of the
four lama houses or "Ladrangs" directing this monastery, is the widely famed
mother monastery at the head of hundreds of affiliated houses throughout Tibet
collectively constituting the Ngor branch of the Sakyapa School, one of the
four great schools of Tibetan Buddhism. The Sakyapa School consists of three
branches: Sakya, Ngorpa, and Tsarpa, whose teachings are uniform but whose
ritual, monastic tradition, and administration vary. The Sakyapa School is
characterised in its history by a very large number of lamas learned in the
ocean of Sutras and Tantras as well as by realised sages among whom the
illustrious Sakya Pandita was alone among all Tibetan lamas in possessing the
thirty-two physical marks and eighty characteristic qualities of the fully
enlightened Buddhas, besides other sages as well. This Sakyapa School is
directed overall by His Holiness Sakya Trizin, who is resident in India.
"May the lotus-seat of the Lama, wealth of the Dharma, flourish! May holy
beings, holders of the Dharma, abound! May the wealth and success of the Dharma
benefactors prosper! And long may the Holy Dharma abide!"
LONG-LIFE PRAYERS
1. You, the great Master Kunga Zangpo, are the holder of the doctrine of the
holy Sakyapas, incarnations of Manjushri; you who are the dharma-regent of the
distant tradition, Chokyi Gyamtso, long may you remain here. (This prayer was
composed by Jamyang Chokyi Lodro, having been requested by Tamdrin Gonpo).
2. THE ROLLING THUNDER OF THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF IMMORTALITY You, Manjushri who
embodies the primordial wisdom of the Buddhas, you are the regent seated on the
throne of temporal and spiritual rule of Kunga Zangpo who was predicted by the
Buddha; Master of the ocean of the Bodhisattvas, long may you live! Lord among
sages, you are accomplished in hearing, thinking and meditating; you flawlessly
maintain the three vows, possessing a great wave of Bodhicitta; Vajradhara,
long may you remain! Through the blessing of this prayer may your supreme lotus
feet be firm as vajras. May the divine activity of your three secrets be
indestructable, and may the doctrine of E-wam spread. (This prayer was composed
by the learned abbot Khyenrab Chokyi Ozer).
3. You Manjushri, great treasure of the knowledge of all Buddhas, like
Vajradhara Kunga Zangpo you embody the three secrets; You have completely
mastered the Buddha's doctrines of sutra and tantra; Chokyi Gyamtso, long may
you remain. (This prayer was composed by H.E. Phende Rinpoche himself on
request by his students at Ewam Phende Ling).
GeirSmith
Thrinley one too) Karmapa and only in the possession of one single man in the
whole wide world, to preserve Tibetan Tantric Buddhism ?
A. Yes
or
B.. No.
I'd really request all objections and/obstacles to this be made known clearly
now, as the future of world Buddhism hinges on it : and having obstacles to
this made known is thus important as it can play a major historical role to
have people representing such obstacles hanging around and creating problems
right here. Being the seniormost disciple of my guru, this is an important
point as indeed, only I of all his disciples make his tradition known openly,
all others keeping the holy master's tradtion secret. They don't actually know
about the impact of his heritage being little educated and little familiar with
the world just as people here on ARBT are. Most people operate as people from
on the block and have little world-experience and/travellig. So, if you have a
long or short term plan of being a major obstacle to the Buddha's Dharma and
harming many sentient beings through that - and of being an obstacle to Tantric
Buddhism as in the Gyu De Kun Tus, please make it known to all clearly. It'll
be my work to convince that your project is madness and contrary to the Buddha.
By living in an ivory tower where you think that all is illusion but actually
closing you to the view of the world is an error... it's an heretical path that
you must abandon. Harming others is a wrong path and it must be abandoned. It
is right to live in accord with the views of the world and that's not what I'm
seeing here. People live in illusion-worlds where they only serve their own
purposes not serving vast beneficial deeds for all beings in accord with the
Bodhisattva-vow such as I with this teaching project for all sentient beings's
benefit for all eternity, by saving the Buddha Dharma from extinction at our
time-period.I fight the wasting of time by buying time for Buddha in our modern
world and fighting the destruciton of Buddhism by so-called "Modern Progress"
The Ngorpa school I belong to is a Tantric path and thus as such, it follows
the path of harmonizing with the worldly view in order to benefit all beings
without exception. The mongrel culture of modern times is a destructoive
monster that one must neutralize so as to save the Buddha's Dharma and to do
that the Gyu De Kun Tus must be furthered to the whole of humanity, through
formal initiation to all - through their representatives - that are to be
initiated.
Bev Thornton
> The exception that confirms the rule. The detail you omitted is his conversion
> to a devout Buddhist rule and a total change in method. From what I see,
Apparently not enough history. If Ashoka is too boring to hold your
interest, try the Sinhalese/Tamil wars between 1200 and 1650 AD. Or you
can look at the history of Southeast Asia before European occupation.
Developing arrogance of some supposed peacefulness of Buddhism is wrong
enough, basing it on an imagined history only makes it worse.
> polemics seem to be your motive rather than anything. I'm not into polemics.
But you keep writing one, over and over again.
> I'm into Tantrism only and the Gyu De Kun Tus teaching that incidentally is
> indicated because it is the only possible way, today to preserve Tibetan
> Tantric Buddhism in it's Secret tradition (this is the part indicated that
> secret tradition will be preserved in the Kalachakra. This being solely in the
> Gyu De... today, it has to be it. Without it the traditions will go extinct. I
> posted the links to the Karmapa speaking about this on site but you haven't
> requested *that*. Bwa bwa bwa ! Afraid to ask for that ? Afraid to see the
> Karmapa asking for the Gyu De Kun Tus ? You're cowards here on ARBT.)
There. You did it again. The same polemic. The secret tradition is
preserved in the Kalachakra Tantra. Fait accompli.
> Berzin is wrong on his positions.
What positions are those?
It's not politics.
>>I've read the site. I don't remember such a statement.
>
> O.K. I can't help you remember, its not in my power. The Buddha said : "I've
> shown you the way, it's up to you to tread it yourself." Tread.
However, you didn't show the way, you just made some wild claim and then
failed to back it up.
What did The Buddha say about those who would make controversy and
schism within and about the Sangha? What did The Buddha say about gossip
or speaking ill of another? What did The Buddha say about those who
teach theirs is the only way?
> Who are you ?
My name is in the headers.
> I've repeatedly posted here about the intitiations my guru has that he is the
> only one to have and that the rest of the lineages needs to save their Tantric
> teachings, so respect for that is in due; unless one turns against Tantric
> tradition and considers it no longer necessary, writing it off. Are the
> intiations that the Karmapa has requested wrong ? The Dalaï-Lama has stated
> that Tantric teachings are the supreme teachings and that only by practising
> them can one attain fully realized Enlightement.
Yes, that is all well and fine, but those are things for them to deal
with, not for us to worry about.
>>I don't need to know your mind or my own to know that 'enemy' is an
>>impression made on sunyata. I only need to know The Buddha's teachings
>>on the subject and to do the practices that make those teachings
>>obvious.
>
> I don't speak Chinese.
You don't need to speak Chinese. The Dharma has spread to English. It
may get a little convoluted with the problems of verbal tense or be
missing words and senses, but the motivation comes through and the means
of practice remains coherent so for now, even English will do.
> In practice I don't practise immoral practises.
When you write them in words, like type them out or speak them into a
microphone for sending in to this newsgroup, you bring those thoughts into
your mindstream, the mental images and senses related to the words. The
same happens for others when they read what you write. When you write in
about eradicating this or that, however fun it might be to you at the
moment or however pressing it may seem to be to you, all you are doing
is spreading obscuration and confusion. That isn't ethical on the
Eightfold Path.
> People should gather to save real Buddhism from women, Orientals, and people
> who object to the wholesale wanton destruction of gods that are attributed to
> have created the world etc....Bev, alone here (I never brought this up...)
> talks about "killing those who follow such idols". I can't stop her from
> entertaining such heretical thoughts and falsely making use of them. But
> slander, lying and rough language are widespread throughout the world and I
> can't control this even with the best of intents.
That is all nonsensical. You can control your own propensity to slander,
lie and use rough language. Generation of bodhicitta, just staying with
the practice can take care of that.
Bev Thornton
> Forget about Kalachakra,
Sorry, no.
> forget about women
Can't do that either.
> forget about Gods and their crushing.
Then stop bringing it up.
> Do you see a problem with giving the Gyu De KunTus so as to save the Tantric
> tradition of Tibet ?
There's no problem. Care of that aspect of lineage is someone else's
practice.
> Do you see a problem with the only one possessing the complete transmission
> passing it on to others, which is what I'm posting about on this ng (forget
> about all the other minor subjects next to this) ?
That's not a problem either. Why are you posting about it? It's
irrelevant. The person who started this thread was interested in
information concerning the Kingdom of Shambhala, and not in whatever
madness has overcome you. Have you been dabbling in tantras that you
shouldn't?
> Do you have a problem with this ?
Not at all. I'm just doing the same kind of nonsense that you are. After
all, this is a newsgroup.
GeirSmith
>Kalachakrapa
>> Forget about Kalachakra,
>
>Sorry, no.
>
>> forget about women
>
>Can't do that either.
>
>> forget about Gods and their crushing.
>
>Then stop bringing it up.
>
>> Do you see a problem with giving the Gyu De KunTus so as to save the
>Tantric
>> tradition of Tibet ?
>
>There's no problem. Care of that aspect of lineage is someone else's
>practice.
I've posted the reproduction of the positions of the two lamas who want the
teachings on one side and the one(s) [there are two Karmapas] who want it.
People can consult that now. Now, if women are an issue fine, people can debate
it here. If Gods are an issue, fine, people can debate that. As for Kalachakra,
if that also is an issue, well call me when the issue of saving Tibetan culture
in our age has been resolved as this is the sole urgent issue as far as my
concerns.
I prefer to go to the essentials rather than cover the world with leather.
Tibetan Buddhism is so destroyed now not to attack the sects of others. I thus
serve national Tibetan Cultural Salvation and let all other preoccupations to
others. I serve only Buddha and no worldy ways.
GeirSmith
>GeirSmith
You're just a pretence of erudite. You don't actually know about the real
things of this. You're fake.You talk to avoid the main subject. I've known a
lot of people just like you. Very common. This is Mantrayana, the Tantric Path.
All the rest is included in it.
Old lamas from Tibet that are now almost dead and very old, still harping about
a country that's lost remind me of crazy men. Time to think about the next life
and practise Tantra............quick !!!! Fighting in a sectarian manner when
one is over seventy, is like sawing the branch one is sitting on ! Suicidal and
immature. A lot of people return to childhood in old age. They don't grow up !
Save your soul and forget the world. Everybody has their own karma and don't
need your help....Realize emptiness in one dharma and you will realize it in
all. Nagarjuna.
Confronted with the end of Tibet's culture only mad men could keep on fighting
amongst themselves. When all is lost, it is time to think about one's self. If
one has just one last day, it's time to do it.
Bev Thornton
> Save your soul and forget the world.
What soul?
Kalachakrapa
rails on rails again.
Rally brave Warriors of the courageous faith.
Now Bev's off the radar, God is again the main stream target for Shambala.
God-Creator must be crushed; he doesn't exist, never has existed and never
*will* exist, we, the Warriors of Shambala, oathed to Kalachakra, we take that
sacred oath to prevent the mushrooming of God to grow : stamp it back into the
ground. Burn it to ashes Raze it to the ground.
Now Bev's been eradicated from this ng, she had the double evil omen of
A.being a woman, and B. a crypto-Christian (see how she flew to the rescue of
the religions of the Book's God ? Wow ! Talk about lip-service !!!!) C. is she
a Westerner ? Thornton is Islamic, a deformation of Al-Thor-Ibn. Bwa bwa bwa !
I demasked her...Fatima Al-Thor-ibn.
So now with her off the screen's face, we go for our own private objectives
(keep this top-secret amongst us - we don't want any tattle-tails - tales
ratting on us back to the gals just to keep Buddha's Word from being furthered
and protected by our mission for [God bwa bwa bwa - Blues Brothers....]
Buddha.We don't want those traotors on the ng to back-track to stab us in the
back, so...) which private, top-secret objectives, which must impertaively be
kept secret and not divulged....use code four/ų%*ĩ before each post to identify
yourselves and not the enemy,...objective is A. women and the bad consequences
they entail on monks....even now that monks have been wiped out of Buddhism (do
you really think that what's going on in India is what was going on in Tibet ?
Monks in Tibet were life-monks; not high-school graduates disrobing at
eighteen. Buddha had another view of the Sangha of monks than the fake ones in
India, that are no more what Buddhism was and represent nilch coma zilch of it
now) B. objective # 2 Kalachakra. Now that the Gyu De Kun Tus agenda can
realize and the link to the Karmapas' wishes to receive it has been sent here,
the Kalachakra propecy to save world Buddhism within it can realize, something
that wasn't possible without that Gyu De Kun Tus agenda. Kalachakra thus
realizes by the Gyu De Kun Tus being given and Karmapa is a main benefactor for
it to happen during it's one-year bestowal that must be given to the major
people in Buddhism to ensure the saving widely of the Dharma for the next
generations upon generations and always into all eternal eternity.... et al.
etc...and so on...C. God(s) and how to crush, stamp, destroy, eliminate them :
mainstay of the Buddhist creed. "Thou shalt forthwith not prostrate to worldly
gods" excerpt from the Buddhist Refuge.
We, the secret Warriors of Shambala herewith, by congregating secretly, without
the interfering eye of enemies of our people, make our fight mainstream,
because Johnny, our membership man, *is* mainstream, using the code four for
intercepting inimical posts and smashing them afgainst our smash-wall, now go
an all-out attack on bads because good will survive in this world. Women ar for
equality n our day and age and being anti-women is A not modern and not B.
Tantric. Saying evil about women is a root-downfall of the Tantric vows. I
don't say evil about women. But the Buddha wanted women to not have nun-vows
for along time and put it off as long as possible to preserve the life-span of
the Doctrine. If He had given it to them the Dharma would have had it's life
halved; from what He said. So, women and men are equal, but the monks's
congregation that the Buddha set up before that of women and kept separarte fro
along time was for men. Women are not the same as men and men's characteristics
are a penis and testicles. If someone finds out that women have this too
please make this known because it'll be a big breakthrough and we can make the
Sangha open to them. Women with the full apparel ! Yippeee ! That'll be the day
! Modern Science is doing miracles, eh ! That'll be the day.
Only the Ultimate exists if one conceptualizes it.
Only the Ultimate exists if one conceptualizes it.
The Ultimate only exists if one conceptualizes it.
The Ultimate exists only if one conceptualizes it.
The Ultimate exists if only one conceptualizes it.
The Ultimate exists if one only conceptualizes it.
The Ultimate exists if one conceptualizes only it.
The Ultimate exists if one conceptualizes it only.
GeirSmith
so, Warriors of Shambala reign.
Unless you see that, as children, the world is ruled by the ones whose eyes are
pure - Harry Potter sells most books today, well then you won't rule the world,
you, the Warriors.
Be as children and see beyond ordinary appearances. Then, among the many
called-upon, you will be the chosen. Then you wilthst thou realize only, the
prophecy of Lord Kalachakra.
Original face 12
>From: geir...@aol.com (GeirSmith)
>Date: 11/28/2004 7:28 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041128102833...@mb-m20.aol.com>
>"Those who are children at heart are blessed for they will inherit the world"
true enough
Bev Thornton
> God is again the main stream target for Shambala.
What 'God?'
> God-Creator must be crushed; he doesn't exist, never has existed and never
> *will* exist, we, the Warriors of Shambala, oathed to Kalachakra, we take that
> sacred oath to prevent the mushrooming of God to grow : stamp it back into the
> ground. Burn it to ashes Raze it to the ground.
That is nonsense, untrue.
http://www.berzinarchives.com/vows/kalachakra_root_tantric_pledges.html
There are a couple of short Sutras you may find useful:
The Neyyattha Sutta
<http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/neyyattha_sutta.htm>
The Abhasita Sutta
<http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/abhasita_sutta.htm>
> Now Bev's been eradicated from this ng, she had the double evil omen of
> A.being a woman, and B. a crypto-Christian (see how she flew to the rescue of
> the religions of the Book's God ? Wow ! Talk about lip-service !!!!) C. is she
> a Westerner ? Thornton is Islamic, a deformation of Al-Thor-Ibn. Bwa bwa bwa !
> I demasked her...Fatima Al-Thor-ibn.
Have you ever heard the Johnny Cash song, Boy Named Sue? It has several
interesting lessons in it.
> The Ultimate exists if one conceptualizes it only.
Ah, and another Sutra, is relevant here:
The Heart Sutra
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mooncharts/heartsutra/english.html
Bev Thornton
> "Those who are children at heart are blessed for they will inherit the world"
> so, Warriors of Shambala reign.
Shambhala Warriors serve - as warriors, of a sort. Paraphrasing of
mleccha doctrine is not necessary nor conducive to understanding or
practice, it is conducive to confusion and perversion of practice.
>Unless you see that, as children, the world is ruled by the ones whose eyes are
>pure - Harry Potter sells most books today, well then you won't rule the world,
>you, the Warriors.
Harry Potter sells books? Since when? What is Harry Potter?
> Be as children and see beyond ordinary appearances. Then, among the many
> called-upon, you will be the chosen. Then you wilthst thou realize only, the
> prophecy of Lord Kalachakra.
Geez, that comes across like something from Sunday morning television.
Original face 12
>Date: 11/28/2004 10:42 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <30ukhcF...@uni-berlin.de>
and gier is right on here
i agree
those who eyes are with little dust
shall know the blessing of LORD BUDDHA
simply beautiful
begin again Bev
Krishnacharya1
>What 'God?'
duh
>That is nonsense, untrue.
whatever
>http://www.berzinarchives.com/vows/kalachakra_root_tantric_pledges.html
>
>There are a couple of short Sutras you may find useful:
>The Neyyattha Sutta
><http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/ne
yyattha_sutta.htm>
>The Abhasita Sutta
>
><http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/ab
hasita_sutta.htm>
>Have you ever heard the Johnny Cash song, Boy Named Sue? It has several
>interesting lessons in it.
I don't listen to farmer music.>Ah, and another Sutra, is relevant here:
>The Heart Sutra
>http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mooncharts/heartsutra/english.html
>
Also, I do know that what the Ngor tradition had was that women weren't allowed
inside the monastery premises and monks talking to women were pretty off-limits
for good gor monks and bringing them close to losing their vows. I'm married
and my previous incarnation was certainly a monk. That'll be declared sometime
after time. Anyways, the Buddha Dharma is still hobbling along but women in
accord with the Buddha-Dharma are what I saw of Asian women in Asia where I
lived for a year and not what I see in our "beoved" West. The kind of women
talking loud like I hear here are not anyway what the Buddha talked about.
Sorry, a Buddhism dominated by pushy, loud women, well, forget it. I lie Asian
women who are really women. Too bad for Western women, I don't think much of
them.
Krishnacharya1
>GeirSmith
Ha ha !
Bev Thornton
>Sorry, a Buddhism dominated by pushy, loud women, well, forget it. I lie Asian
>women who are really women. Too bad for Western women, I don't think much of
>them.
Then you are certainly having difficulties with your practice and are
expressing what is bondage to what you believe are your masculine
qualities.
Sannoga Sutta
The Dhamma Discourse on Bondage and Lack of Bondage
"I will teach you a Dhamma discourse on bondage and lack of bondage.
Listen and pay close attention. I will speak."
"Yes, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said: "A woman attends inwardly to her feminine
faculties, her feminine gestures, her feminine manners,
feminine poise, feminine desires, feminine voice, feminine charms.
She is excited by that, delighted by that. Being excited and delighted
by that, she attends outwardly to masculine faculties, masculine
gestures, masculine manners, masculine poise, masculine desires,
masculine voices, masculine charms. She is excited by that, delighted
by that. Being excited and delighted by that, she wants to be bonded to
what is outside her, wants whatever pleasure and happiness that arise
based on that bond. Delighting, caught up in her femininity, a woman
goes into bondage with reference to men. This is how a woman does not
transcend her femininity.
"A man attends inwardly to his masculine faculties, masculine gestures,
masculine manners, masculine poise, masculine desires, masculine voice,
masculine charms. He is excited by that, delighted by that. Being
excited and delighted by that, he attends outwardly to feminine
faculties, feminine gestures, feminine manners, feminine poise,
feminine desires, feminine voices, feminine charms. He is excited by
that, delighted by that. Being excited and delighted by that, he wants
to be bonded to what is outside him, wants whatever pleasure and
happiness that arise based on that bond. Delighting, caught up in his
masculinity, a man goes into bondage with reference to women. This is
how a man does not transcend his masculinity.
"And how is there lack of bondage? A woman does not attend inwardly to
her feminine faculties... feminine charms. She is not excited by that,
not delighted by that... does not attend outwardly to masculine
faculties... masculine charms. She is not excited by that, not
delighted by that... does not want to be bonded to what is outside her,
does not want whatever pleasure and happiness that arise based on that
bond. Not delighting, not caught up in her femininity, a woman does not
go into bondage with reference to men. This is how a woman transcends
her femininity.
"A man does not attend inwardly to his masculine faculties... masculine
charms. He is not excited by that, not delighted by that... does not
attend outwardly to feminine faculties... feminine charms. He is not
excited by that, not delighted by that... does not want to be bonded to
what is outside him, does not want whatever pleasure and happiness that
arise based on that bond. Not delighting, not caught up in his
masculinity, a man does not go into bondage with reference to women.
This is how a man transcends his masculinity.
"This is how there is lack of bondage. And this is the Dhamma discourse
on bondage and lack of bondage."
For free distribution only
Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
--
We create
bevth...@despammed.com that which
we defend against.
<http://icbl.org/><http://www.msf.org><http://ifaw.org><http://foei.org>
Pema
> >Bev
>
> >And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
> >this newsgroup?
>
> Forget about Kalachakra, forget about women (I have no gripes with them -
> Pema's my love
when you kick someone when they are down and kick them some more, you
have no capacitcy for love, only illusions of it.
GeirSmith
>when you kick someone when they are down and kick them some more, you
>have no capacitcy for love, only illusions of it.
Retribution of karma is a complicated thing and what animates the world, both
for oneself and for others. All is interconnected, right ? The butterfly
flapping it's wings in the Amazon, begets a tidal in the Pacific...Who can see
it in all detail, apart from the Omniscient Buddha ? We can see what affects
us, that's all. But concerning the causes, only the Omniscient One can see
them.
Bev Thornton
> Retribution of karma is a complicated thing and what animates the world, both
> for oneself and for others.
Karma doesn't do retribution. Karma ripens, in a way. Or it could be
said to resolve, but it doesn't have will so retribution simply isn't
possible. Wrong view.
The idea of karma animating the world is from the Mahabharata, that
conception and definition of karma is from within theistic, eternalist
belief. The Buddha taught with a different conception and definition
where motivation and intent of either action or inaction is the critical
factor in karma where karma is one of five processes which animate the
world, the niyamas.
> All is interconnected, right ?
Ultimately, conventionally, both ultimately and conventionally, or
neither ultimately or conventionally, which do you mean?
> The butterfly flapping it's wings in the Amazon, begets a tidal in the
> Pacific...
Not alone, not by itself, so there is no begetting.
Believing that all is result of karma or action is called
pubbekatahetuvada, it is a wrong view, past-action determinism.
You can read The Buddha's refutation in the Tittha Sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/anguttara/an03-061.html
> Who can see it in all detail, apart from the Omniscient Buddha ?
> We can see what affects us, that's all. But concerning the causes,
> only the Omniscient One can see them.
Acintita Sutta
Unconjecturables
"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured
about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured
about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas [i.e., the range of powers a Buddha
develops as a result of becoming a Buddha] is an unconjecturable that
is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation
to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana [i.e., the range of powers that
one may obtain while absorbed in jhana]...
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an
unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring
madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured
about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured
about them."
For free distribution only.
Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Pleasant is it
to do no evil.
<http://icbl.org><http://www.dalailamafoundation.org><http://iccnow.org>
Paul Kekai Manansala
> Hello,
>
> I am looking about some information about the KIngdom of Shambala. How is
> this KIngdom seen by the important Bouddhist traditions.
> Can we reach these Kingdown via Tantric Yoga or will this Kingdom be
> revealed to us in a near future.
> Thanks in advance for any information about this subject.
>
> KInd greetings from Belgium
>
> Peace and love
>
> Bruno
Visit this URL:
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/szpintro.htm
Regards,
Paul Kekai Manansala
Kalachakrapa
and thus establish what the areas of interest are that make people most
particular. The area that makes people rise in arms, as if their house was on
fire, is the All-Mighty Book Religion-God or Allah or et al, other godly
labels. This has to be totally crushed and stamped out. Warriors of Shambala
gather for the finla battle on the devil-deity that pollutes our, this world
and let's retake our due from this imposter. We are the right posters, and he's
the un(im)poster ! Let's depost him ! Let's launch the final destruction of
thos imposter to our temple that we will retake and reign in the Kingdom of
Shambala from, the rule of Justice and good vs evil. We, are the ngood and he's
the evil. He's the monster and we're the good. He's the Manichean Evil-Doer and
the super-duper good guys.
Kalachakrapa
>Krishnacharya1
A Buddhism dominated by masculine women, like nuns, I think not, but a Buddhism
in accord with Tantrism and feminine women in accord with men, yes, I think so.
Tantrism, as prophecied everywhere in Tibetan culture, and in the Kalachakra
particularly, is the teaching of modern times and the teachings of monks and
nuns is finished. The modern times's teachings are those of celibate spinsters
and of married couples.
Kalachakrapa
>Harry Potter sells books? Since when? What is Harry Potter?
Harry Potter is like David Copperfield, magic for the masses.
Fraud.
He's like Lobsang Rampa, bringing the mistaken masses inadvertantly into the
wonderful world of magic. By error, he creates goodness. It's like from
superstition discrimative wisdom can arise by reaction; or from wild weeds,
beautiful flowers can mix in. Amidst many false prophets, as we see today
everywhere, the Lord will come through all of a sudden. Meanwhile we'll have
organised the Gyu De Kun Tus teaching to preserve Tibetan Buddhism. From a
solid base a good thing will arise. And usurpers and frauds will be defeated.
Harry, we're going to debunk you, down from the upper bunk ! Ha ha ha ! Upstart
!
Kalachakrapa
>Then you are certainly having difficulties with your practice and are
>expressing what is bondage to what you believe are your masculine
>qualities.
From your post I take it you're lesbian. I wouldn't ever take any offence from:
this, not being homophobic... and honestly, I don't mind what sexuality you
have. I'm not asking. Protestants ask people to stand up and defend themselves
so as to abslove them, like Clinton publically confessing. This is the
Inquisition like France did with Joan of Arc in the Middle Ages. Don't need any
of that. That's not a good afternnon. That's hell. Joan *did* die in flames if
anyone forgot. Its not fun. Lynching mobs gahtering to watch hangings are not
the top of evolution. Darwin had other ideas for that, I guiess. Maybe
attaining Nirvana was his crown of creation. .HItler's dead, so leave him in
his grave. Those Grand Inquisitors are into Notzie systems.
Gay sex and anal sex is not my personal choice but my opinion is not to
criticize others about what they choose. Starr and Clinton, and all that
looking into others' sex lives. Sheesh ! Gynecology first hand. Starr to me is
sweaty, balmy, slimy guy reading to many magazines with pin-ups.Why talk about
others' sex ? In France people really dislike it. They had confessionals with
priests here until about the time I came to this country in the early
'60s.Freeing oneself basically was to get away from that and live a sex-life
without the priest getting a report on Monday morning. I don't think the Maha
Siddha had some fundie-guru they gave reports to about their brothel-outings
like in Birwapa's story amongst the Siddhas. America's narrow-minded (England's
tabloid scandal business blowing up government panty-stories shy-high is the
same) scrutinizing between-the-legs area is sickening and a sign of mental
illness within religion I think. Discretion i sex experience is France's
present-day rule in our secular, non-religious state. As an example, Mitterand
had two wives known to the people around him and people kept the secret for
decades. That's typical of that attitude. The rigid mind-frame of Protestants
that want to get into peoples'sex-lives is really antinomical with French
present, freeer moral ethics. Sex is a personal thing that nobody interferes
with. If gays use their anus for sex so it is (not for me though, but that's
just personal only....), lesbians love each other, so it is (I knew good
friends who became lesbians - we got to know them as being lesbians after some
time - they chose to not remain close to my family but heck, it's their life,
not mine.). But the problem for me is elsewhere : it's the frame of mind of
people that repress others' freedom of speech, sex, or thought. It's people who
want to limit others, which is why I supposed you to be lesbian because the
most persecuting of homosexuals are closet-homosexuals themselves, Hoover,
McCarthy's man, Roy Cohn ("Angels in America" and "Citizen Cohn" excellent film
about gay and communist persecution in the U.S. in the '50s. America is
mentally challenged, definitely). The protestant, fundamnetalist attitude is a
real problem to freedom and human rights. France is much more a country of
human rights thatn the U.S. Freedom in life, imbued with tolerance and the
wisdom of Buddhism is only to be found in Asia and the country most preserved
from the abysses of Communism and it's total denial of humans, is Taiwan. Never
being under the Red boot, it still has the flame of freedom in it, that's been
extinguisshed in America since the flickering it hasd in the late XXthe cent.
Why is that ? It's due mostly to Fundamentalism that thinks that what their
neighbour does in the intimacy of his or her bedroom is of his and public
interest, is to me and to French opinion, and to the opinion of most people
liking freedom, intolerable. Trespassing into one's bedroom is against the law
by my book. Human rights say that freedom extends to discriminating for racial,
sexual, gender reasons etc....Fundies like Ken Starr are against human rights
by my book and should be prosecuted. Henry the VIIIth created Protestantism
because the Pope wouldn't let him have eight wives. Look now : his descendants
have become worse than the Pope and the Catholics in France have become more
cool than them. Figure. So, you can be lesbian for me, no problem. Anal-sex
isn't right to me....it's for me.... but I don't want to tell others what their
lives should be. Heck ! Tantric deities have dog, swine or horse-heads, so what
will I worry about what peoples' genital-lives ? Starr could have gone on the
Letterman show : "David, have you been having sex lately ? What sexual details
can you give us ? The president alone shouldn't be asked these questions....."
To me, what doesn't touch me is not a concern to me and what others do is fine
with me. I'm for being free, be it myself or others. And I wish others to be as
I am with others back again. I bet the fundies would balk at Gepa Dorje or
Kalachakra to be their ideal of worship ! Dorje Pagmo, the Adamatine Sow ? Uhhh
! Clinton's "No see, no tell" in the military is the right thing in this matter
of respecting freedom of thoght. This is my opinion. Fundamentalists don't do
this. They do like things SSes. They barge into peoples lives and mess them up
with evil thoughts. They're like Hezbollahs that want to paint the whole town
in their colours. Like the Youth Parades that Hitler organized to fill all
space and all time with his "Eternal Reich". I mean, fundies should give people
a break. With them, what future is there for a religion like Tantrism ? You go
to bed at night with their music in your ears and next morning they're still
there in their crisp ironed uniforms telling you what to think. Sheesh ! Does
this mean they only understand force and ejecting them by electoral victory
will be the only way for these animals to stand down ? Why can't just elling
them so be enough for them to understand ? Telling them isn't enough, you have
to use force and go after them in a big way with a massive election attack.
Does the word "nice" evoke anything to a brain that never has studied ? What's
great about what they do ? They're interfering in what's peoples' most intimate
part : their sex-lives. It's like dressing someone naked before the audience.
What's great about that ? That's the way to their God ? Come on ! That's the
Pol Pot rule, with tying electrodes to the genitals and so forth. Kenneth Starr
is about as close to a Grand Inquisitor as one can get. Up same alley as
Islamic Ayatollahs, veiling their women, keeping them hime for beating :
they're just about what Ken Starr is, from my pint of view. His ideal must be
17th cent. Holland in some Calvinistic sect that was rejceted and expelled to
America. They probably were too idiotic to be in Europe and kicked out because
they rejected all modernity that was entering Europeans' philosophy at that
time. The Revolution was bringing new ideas and morals that were more open to
peoples' frreedoms and rights. This is a Tibetan ng and that's *Tantric* in
it's gist. That means sexually implicit (secrecy being the essence... the
border between implicit and explicit become entwined. One taste emerges and
outer, inner and secret blend into one.) and completely free about it. I don't
give hoot about your being lesbian or not. You're absolutely free from my
point, of view.
Crush fundamentalist thought and the God that's the world-creator that they
worship too ! Join me Warriors, let's make Tantrism rule this world and save it
from the destruction that the religions of the Book are wreaking on it ! Let's
make Shambala rule ! Rule Kalachakra :!
Masculine women lost it when they lost their husbands, eh ! They're sure not
going to make it big with nunneries : they're not doing any better than the
monasteries in India. Total failures and nothing like Tibet and it's
discipline, sole way to attain success. in religion. Everything's going rotten
so join the Kalachakra to vanquish and rule this moutain of rot that the world
has become ! No way back and the only way is forward or you'll get bogged down
and you're done with. Shambala only reveals itself for a short time so take
your chance quick : the light shines through the slit for an instant only.....
Bev Thornton
> From your post I take it you're lesbian.
Sunyata has a way of hitting you in the imagination. I'm male.
http://baby-names.adoption.com/search/Beverly.html
Maybe I'm a lesbian born in a male body. Who knows?
> This is the Inquisition like France did with Joan of Arc in the Middle Ages.
What's that, some Christian stuff? How about discussing Yeshe Tsogyal or
Machig Labdron in this newsgroup?
> extinguisshed in America since the flickering it hasd in the late XXthe cent.
> Why is that ?
That's just in your imagination, don't be silly.
> will I worry about what peoples' genital-lives ?
Apparently.
> Starr could have gone on the Letterman show : "David, have you been
Too much tv.
>Crush fundamentalist thought and the God that's the world-creator that they
>worship too ! Join me Warriors, let's make Tantrism rule this world and save it
>from the destruction that the religions of the Book are wreaking on it ! Let's
>make Shambala rule ! Rule Kalachakra :!
Where do you get that from? Like, this just isn't the time. Nor is that
the way.
> Total failures and nothing like Tibet and it's discipline, sole way to
> attain success.
No attainment, no non-attainment.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Virtue is persecuted more by the evil
than loved by the good.
Kalachakrapa
Warriors without names' guide to the ultimate saving of Buddhism in it's
highest form of Tantricism and it's saving by the sole manner still available
to do : the Gyu De Kun Tus. By this, all the Religions of the Book will be
destroyed in their evil intent of intolaerntly fighting all religions except
their own and even fighting each other, even more than others in fact. Their
virtues will be remaining while all their sins will be eradicated : let's get
the initiations needed for that on the road - Karmapa to sponsor them and my
guru Phende Kenchen to bestow it.
People who haven't got it and are jealous that the two Karmapas get it and that
they don't; well they can just leave the road open for others and not block it
by doing obstructionism here, trying to divert the attention to minor subjects.
This is about saving Tibetan Buddhism quick in the next few years before it's
too late. Turn away from this world and it's tempting allure. Save this
tradition before the time is up. Each second counts now and people playing hide
and seek are off topic here.
Here's the previous link to the initiation with the full posts reposted below :
enjoy :
Kalachakrapa (kalach...@aol.com)
Object :Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
>Bev
>And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
>this newsgroup?
Forget about Kalachakra, forget about women (I have no gripes with them -
Pema's my love and when Ev isn't pissed, she stays quiet; I get along with the
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
LONG-LIFE PRAYERS
Poster une réaction en réponse à ce message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
©2004 Google
Kalachakrapa
and my guru around receiving the Gyu De Kun Tus.(posted below - the fourty
Marpa Tantras, that take fifty days to give I guess approximately - belong to
the Gyu De Kun Tus collextion and must also be gotten with the rest, taking a
year to give or else the Karmapa has gotten only smitherens fo the total which
is senseless - that would be such as being in front of a treasure which you
only stoop down to take a aprt of !!!! That would mean the Karmapa remained
ignorant of the other parts. He gets out of ignorance for the Marpa Tantras but
not for the others - parttial blindness - the other lamas who don't even
request these teachings are of course even more ignorant of the Tantras than
the Karmapa... Ha ha ha !)
Being rare on this is ng isn't difficult to understand : Bev is part of the
Shambala org, that claims to be the saviours of Tibetan culture and if Karmapa
gets this Gyu De Kun Tus he becomes the Kkagyu Warrior of Shambala and no
longer Bev's org. that's up in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
Up in the North we have out outpost and the poster there, North Tuckard that we
haven't heard from about this nor have we heard from Thornton's alter-ego
seeing Rotkidon, if you take away "ki" there's rot don in his alias - or name.
Thornton and invert "rot" for "tor"......Look at Thor(n)ton and then Tordon.
Same. Neither the one nor the other are different. Nor can one say either nor
the one are equal.
Those north people are into this Shambala thing but have no background. I bring
the background and bring this back to reality. These woodsmen are, in their
words, the Shambala Warriors but just in word and off the wall.
I noticed also that Thornton also spells "nro" when spelled backwards. It's
almost like the Virgin Madonna in the hamburger that sold on E-Bay for a few
dozen hundred dollars !!!!
Well, I noticed that Bev's not showed up ever since I posted the link below
Bev's not been here because Karmapa tops Trungpa and Bev's thus bottled up and
silenced because Karmapa is superior to Trungpa in the pecking order of the
Kagyus. Ha ha ha ! No more Shambala for them !!!! Check out the Marpa Tantras
below and the Gyu De Kun Tus teachings Karmapa requested from my school to get
them. Bev's silenced.
Kalachakrapa (kalach...@aol.com)
Object :Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
>Bev
>And does your guru or do your gurus know what you are writing in to
>this newsgroup?
Forget about Kalachakra, forget about women (I have no gripes with them -Pema's
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
and carefully. Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Kde Rinpoche
LONG-LIFE PRAYERS
©2004 Google
sco...@nowhere.net
It is -- shall I, charitably, say unmodern? unskillful? -- to say that a
leader is doing women a favor by denying them equal rights in order to
protect them from unchastity. If a woman is raped, she has not broken a vow
of celibacy. And those who seek to dominate and control others always claim
to "protect" them -- e.g., China says it has "liberated" Tibet, America says
it has "freed" Iraq, Islamic fundamentalists claim they restrict women to
"protect" them. Please, let's not allow Buddhism to fall into the same trap!
And to talk about "dirtying" the historic Buddha also falls into error -- it
puts him on a pedestal of inerrancy, just like some people put Jesus or
Mohammed on similar pedestals and refuse to consider that anything they
uttered might be conditioned by the cultures they lived in, let alone
incorrect. That is a dangerous ideology, because by making our leader into a
god, we deny that we can be like him. That's why Jesus said (contrary to
orthodox Christian teaching) that God was "our Father" (not his alone). We
all have to think for ourselves, willing to consider and even criticize our
forebears. Everyone from Sakyamuni himself, to Ralph Waldo Emerson (in his
address to the Harvard Divinity School), emphasized that. That's why Zen
teaches that if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him.
"Buddha", the concept, is perfect. Sakyamuni, the man, even after
enlightenment, was not necessarily perfect. For a woman to note Sakyamuni's
reluctance to admit women as nuns is not a bad thing -- it shows that we all
can continue to grow.
maurilio
GeirSmith
>Friend, coming in to this conversation late, it sounds as if you're too
>attached to a doctrine or a religion, and at risk of losing the dharma.
>Remember sand mandalas. If you let go and it blows away, it blows away. If
>you hang on and "save it", you lose your way and nothing really is saved
>(because there is nothing to save, and nothing can be saved, or unless
>everything is saved nothing is). The main subject isn't "the Gyu De Kun Tus
>asked by Karmapa and the guru Phende Kenchen." If that "point" is the Buddha
>to you -- kill him.
>
>Let go. Attachment is suffering.
>
>You probably won't like the above, or agree with it, but I wish you peace.
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm not surprised by you response because it was exactly what I predicted i.e.
a cop-out. Bev, transforming from Norbu into Scoobey but always keeping it's
tiger's spots of defaulting on the meaning without fighting for it's positions.
"Fleeing is the best attack". The French expression is "Courage ! Flee." In
english we say : "Coward !" People here know that I'm ruthless and never let go
of preys. You want it : you get it.
Below is the link posted for all to read. Bonus today : here's the total thread
on Google Groups new formatting that gives the thread in a better and cleaner
aspect. In it one sees the whole thing from Berzin and the Dalaï-Lama to
Trungpa etc... Your attitude is basically to avoid any me,ntion of Trungpa
which is the basis of what you're fighting for. Covering for Trungpa....That's
whay I send my guru Phende Kenchen's past record which is the anti-thesis based
on authentic lineage and erudition. Having the tradition or not is the
question. Buddha never rejected tradition and lineage which is what you do.
Buddha established the Sangha precisely to do what you propound to reject,
namely propose contiuity in teaching so that it not be lost. You're
anti-Buddhist and I'm the Buddhist champion. People should not see you as a
Buddhist champion and me as an anti-Buddhist person as you paint me to be. I'm
the one saving Buddhism and you're the one condemning it by covering for your
guru Trungpa. You're the evil-propounder; I'm the goodness-prophet here today.
Inverting roles is not an issue. Any person of any integrity or/and learning
can see that throughout the historicity of this thread : (OT the bonus to this
thread is the news just out that "Rolling Stone " magazine voted "Like a
Rolling Stone" by Bob Dylan as the song of the century...of the world...of all
time [?!!!!] Dylan on 60 Minutes CBS....)(The Marpa Tantras are part of the Gyu
De Kun Tus that Phende Kenchen's bio - second link - possesses, alone in the
world. He also possess the unique Drutap Kun Tus collection of Sadhanas and
Tantras too. A second year of prospective teachings to be given to the high
brass of TB there. Two full years of initiations in perpective and a whole lot
of ceremonies by G.d ! - God Kalachakra of course .....When that's all been
given the whole brass will be initiated, the lineage ensured by all the various
sects and Buddhism saved. [Tantrism is vital and important to Buddhism : it's
the only path practised by all the Buddhas of the three times to attain fully
realized Enlightenment !!!!])
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
H.H. receiving important initiations
and carefully. Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so
you should do a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the
transmission to Kagyu lamas.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
GeirSmith
The main subject is the Gyu De Kun Tus asked by Karmapa and the guru Phende
Kenchen, my master, who now alone has it in the world.
All other minor subjects aren't the main issue because Tibetan Buddhism is on
the brink of going extinct, and no losing time is now possible.
All the fake Messiahs, Trungpa,(Bev alias Norbu because both from Shambala.org
and big Sanskrit quoters such as none other on this ng....they/he thinks
Trungpa is a Messiah of Shambala etc...despite the drunkard aspect of the
presonnage....Maitreya's a drunk for them....shows what level they've fallen to
!!!!) Maitreya, Li Hong,;Tulku Maitreya etc...Harry Potter, or Bush.... or
whoever is on line for being the Messiah, none of them have the ability to be
the Shambala King because he will be the one to save the Tantric heritage of
Tibetan Buddhism as prophecied.
Thus it's all contained in the Gyu De Kun Tus and no Shambala will exist, as
prophecied, without it.
And none of the fakes have the gyu De Kun Tus becuas eno one has it in the
world outside of Phende Kenchen and who still has the ability, alone in the
world....to give it to others.
The string has now worn down to it's barest thread. All time to procrastinate
is finished and now is time for express action; no more talk.
Being the Kalachakra King and throwing away Buddhism's Tantrism is senseless
and the subjects that don't serve that purpose are not of any meaning to me
anymore, if it's to be said that earlier, they ever did have any meaning.
They don't now anyways.
If anyone hasn't seen the link to this tell me I'll post it now.
I want this point to be rammed home fully and be understood even by the less
intelligent on this ng.
Either ask for this link or answer to the point or else I'll post it on the
next.
There's no reason why people should always avoid the point and all the interest
of Karmapa for this teaching, and act as if all that didn't exist.
It's just fleeing reality to remain blind to this vital point for Tibetan
Buddhism as people on this ng are doing.
I want to save Tibetan Buddhism as prophecied in the Kalachakra Tantra.
sco...@nowhere.net
GeirSmith
entering the Realm of Ridcule here an ARBT. It looks like the Secret Warriors
of the ng have won and the era of Victory is heralded here, hereforth and
herewith. Drink and revel; the weapon is ready and sent off at the slightest
wincing of the grimacing gremlins. The oost with Phende Kenchen that none have
answerd to will be sent off and even bettered on by slimming it down to a
shorter paragraph-version so that any one can get the gist at a glance and thus
run all enemeis into the ground by gathering vast followings behind the meaning
of that post here on ARBT, thus estranging all enemies to it's message and
essence from gathering their troops here and misleading the people as to the
message that is to be furthered here as to what the truth really is;
GeirSmith
Ah was at the beginning.
Julianlzb87
When was that?
What was the date?
Julianlzb87
Julianlzb87
"Hence the sutra predicts that Devadatta, though he has committed the
five cardinal sins, will in the future become a Buddha called the Thus
Come One Heavenly King, and tells how the dragon king's daughter,
though as a woman subject to the five obstacles and thought to be
incapable of attaining Buddhahood, was able instantly to achieve the
Buddha way in the southern realm. "
A sage and an unenlightened man. Nichiren.
Julianlzb87
sco...@nowhere.net
UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GeirSmith
>When was that?
>What was the date?
>
>Julianlzb87
The question is rather whether the Tantrism of Tibet is saved or not and it's
being or not being, not of where, why and when it came about.
Original face 12
>From: geir...@aol.com (GeirSmith)
>Date: 12/3/2004 10:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041203132504...@mb-m25.aol.com>
of
are they for the average person like me
thanks
GeirSmith
>When was that?
>What was the date?
>
>Julianlzb87
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Turning people away from the Path of the Dharma is very serious misdeed. By the
encouragement to preserve Tibetan Buddhism incredible merit is created. By
preventing me from attaining this, incredible dis-merit, in similar proportion,
is created, and the results very really exist. Sayingthis and nothing else
exist is evil in intent because it exists very really for he who sees it.
Telling someone aspiring to Nirvana that it and nothing exists is unskillful
and not in accord with the worldy view which is the path taught by the Buddha.
Speaking unskillfully to someone with faith (and discouraging from the Buddhist
path of accumulating merit and wisdom) is a negative action that the one
practising it will endorse the responsability of. I've seen that this ng has
the tendancy to discourage open action to preserve the Buddha Dharma and thus
is negative - which I underline here because of seeing this. Negative attitude
towards someone intent on practise virtue and the Buddhist path is an evil
deed/and motivation.
GeirSmith
>are the Tantras u always speak
>of
>are they for the average person like me
>thanks
They're for the initiated and those who have obtained the teaching.
Krishnacharya1
I've slimmed down the post so that just the gist is left. The Marpa Tantras are
included in the Gyu De Kun Tus. Here are the excerpts concerning them.
This is necessary because there are several people on this ng that are openly
anti-Buddhist. They're saying things against the Buddha very openly. Thus, to
save the Buddha Dharma from slander, I state the meaning of my post even more
clearly here : so that those who indeed love the Buddha can see clearly what
I'm driving at and that my intent is clearly outlined by it. The fake Messiahs
on one hand and the anti-Buddhist clan on the other : furthering their agendas
here, make it urgent enough to be clear. So....:
Kalachakrapa (kalach...@aol.com)
Object :Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
H.H. receiving important initiations
The Karmapa >snip> wanted to receive certain Kagyupa Tantra
>snip> from >snip>the Sakya School, >snip>
Over fifty very prominent Kagyu Tantras were brought from India to Tibet by the
Great Marpa Lotsawa in the 11th Century. These Tantras were preserved by the
Sakya Lineage for three generations from the early 19th century when the Kagyu
Lineage was in decline. A collection of fourteen Tantras were kept directly in
the Kagyu Lineage, and the rest continued to be secured within the Sakya
Lineage.
>snip>. Over sixty years later during the time of the 12th
Karmapa, Jangchup Dorje (1703-1732) and the 8th Shamarpa, Chokyi Thondrub, the
8th Situ, Chokyi Jungne restored the Marpa Lineage teachings.
>snip>
In the early 19th century the well known scholar Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye
voluntarily searched throughout Tibet for the Marpa Lineage Tantras and
collected them from Lamas everywhere. He compiled the “Kagyu Tantra
Treasure” ( Kagyu Ngakdzo) of fourteen Tantras. Later he collected over forty
more Marpa Tantras. [Geir : This is the Gyu De Kun Tus : it includes not only
the "Marpa Tantras" but much more so, a whole lot of other initiations as well
- coming to a total of more than three hundred] >snip>Then disaster struck once
again, this time from within the
Kagyu Lineage. Kuzhab Situ Pema Kunzang (10th Situ throne holder) had been
jealous of Kongtrul’s fame and activity. Kongtrul was in fact a lower ranking
lama in Situ’s own Palpung Monastery. Situ had Kongtrul expelled from his
monastery and gave specific orders that none were to receive teachings from
him. Since Kongtrul could no longer spread the Marpa Tantras among the Kagyus,
he requested a great lama of the Sakya school, Jamyang Loter Wangpo to hold the
complete Marpa Tantra transmissions and he predicted that in the future they
would be returned to the Kagyupa tradition.
The 16th Karmapa, Rangjung Rigpe Dorje wanted to receive these Tantras from
Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche in the mid-1960s in Sikkim. At that time, Sikkim was
an independent Maharaja state. However, the Maharaja would not give permission
for Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche to come to Sikkim. It is only now after almost two
centuries that this Tantra transmission is being returned to the Kagyu lineage.
H.H. the 17th Karmapa originally wanted to receive the Marpa Tantras from the
great Sakya Lama, Chobgye Trichen Rinpoche. However, he is now quite old and
his health does not permit him to give long initiations. >snip>
As a matter of fact, the Sakyas keep the Tantric precepts and discipline pure
and carefully. Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so
you should do a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the
transmission to Kagyu lamas.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
A Short Biography
(A translation from the French original by R.M.L. Samuel)
>snip>
He then received from Phende Khen Rinpoche the monunemtal teaching known as
"The Collection of all the Tantras (Gyu De Kun tus): a comprehensive collection
of all the great initiations with their mandalas and mandala rituals, a rare
teachung of which very few possess the lineage.[Geir :This is the collection
mentioned above in the Karmapa link] This instruction lasted three
years during which he nonetheless continued in the pursuit of his studies.[It
is given quickly nowadays as people don't have three years to give. But there's
also the DrupThab Kuntu collection (below) which to receive together takes a
two year period in all, so it's still a long thing to receive both these
precious collections. They're the most precious colections in the world and the
only way possible to save Buddhism and Tantrism from disappearing.] >snip> And
he received partly from Lama Ngaga and partly from Phende Khen
Rinpoche the complete collection of initiations and sadhanas known as the Drup
Thab Kuntu compiled by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and completed by his student
Loter Wangpo.
>snip> Settling in France with the idea of founding a centre there, he
succeeded a few years later in 1974 in establishing Ngor Ewam Phende Ling in
Normandy with the help of his disciples .[Geir : I came into the picture with
the first disciples - of which I'm the only one left now...next door
http://www.sakya-ngor.org/enpages/program1.htm] Here he has since given
numerous
profound teachings including the complete Lam Dre; numerous initiations such as
those of Hevajra, Vajrayogini, Bhutadamara, the Protectors, the Wealth Deities,
Avalokitesvara, Tara, Vajrasattva, Manjusri, and Sakya Pandita; and numerous
explanations on practice, on the tantric root vows, the Noble Discourses of
Sakya Pandita (Leg she), the lives of the Mahasiddhas, and others besides.
[Phende Kenchen is the most learned lama of all of Tibetan Buddhism, not least
because of this unique and encyclopedic collection of the Gyu De Kun Tus as
well as the Drup Thab Kuntu ! In the most deep learning of the Tantras which
are the most precious of all Buddhist teachings, he is peerless, matchless. I
hope this is crystal clear to one and all in this post. The fake messiahs and
anti-Buddhist Christians, Muslims, Jews etc...can all go jump in their own
personal lakes : they don't even know what the word Tantra means - so could
they give initiations ? Bwa bwa bwa ! I looked at the dictionnary for the
definition of the word moron but wasn't smart enough to understand it
!!!!]>snip>
His Eminence Phende Rinpoche was later able with the help of his disciples to
establish two additional centres in France: Ngor Ewam Kunzang Ling in Paris,
and Ngor Ewam Cho Ling at Poitiers. He now travels>snip> to
Taiwan where he has established two centres, one in Taipei and the other in
Tainan. >the end snipped too>
Bev Thornton
> are the Tantras u always speak
> of
> are they for the average person like me
There are three kinds of students, from Atisha's
Lamp for the Path to Enlightenment:
#v+
Anyone who takes keen interest in himself or herself
(Achieving), by some means, merely the happiness
Of uncontrollably recurring samsara
Is known as a person of minimum spiritual scope.
Anyone with the nature to turn his or her back
on the pleasures of compulsive existence
And to turn back negative impulses of karma,
And who takes keen interest in merely his or her own state of peace,
Is known as a person of intermediate spiritual scope.
Anyone who fully wishes to eliminate completely
All the sufferings of others
As the sufferings included in his or her own mental continuum
Is someone of supreme motivation.
#v-
The person of supreme motivation best suits tantra.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.foei.org/>
The way is not in the sky.
The way is in the heart.
Bev Thornton
> Dude, I'm not Bev, I'm a newbie to this group. Hear the Lion's Roar: WAKE
> UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
haha, and I'm not Norbu and I practice in Gelug tradition. I think he may
be having a some difficulty.
Om Vajrasattva Hum
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.alertnet.org/>
The pleasure in truth
excels all other pleasures.
GeirSmith
and a parenthsis I forgot on the original within the guru's biography.
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
>snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------http
://sakya-ngor.org/enpages/vierinp1.htm
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
A Short Biography
(A translation from the French original by R.M.L. Samuel)
>snip>
He then received from Phende Khen Rinpoche the monunemtal teaching known as
"The Collection of all the Tantras (Gyu De Kun tus): a comprehensive collection
of all the great initiations with their mandalas and mandala rituals, a rare
teachung of which very few possess the lineage.[Geir :This is the collection
mentioned above in the Karmapa link] This instruction lasted three
years during which he nonetheless continued in the pursuit of his studies.[It
is given quickly nowadays as people don't have three years to give. But there's
also the DrupThab Kuntu collection (below) which, to receive both it and the
Gyu De Kun Tus together, takes a
Original face 12
>From: Bev Thornton Repl...@Not.Invalid
>Date: 12/4/2004 3:50 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <31dmkpF...@individual.net>
one can not say where exactly the way is
yet the way is as brite as the sun
the three are one
each being is a dharma within the dharma
each being is fully realised
such is birth and death
there are no greater or lessor
students
each being is the beginners
mind
William Tucker
"Original face 12" <origina...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041204101114...@mb-m28.aol.com...
you are misleading in your words,
and rose colored in your words....all is so easy, so there.
persnaps in the future....not now.
beginners mind refers to being in a state of moving into awareness
and as such is true
there are different stages
even in the cloisterd world of zen
catch bull at four o'clock
Wm
Original face 12
>Date: 12/4/2004 9:17 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <Bimsd.28586$Rf1....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>
all have finished tea
one takes a walk
the cat tails by the shore
are swayed little by the easy wind
the frogs are sleeping now
and tad poles soon to come
nature is
who can change its simplicity
blessings
GeirSmith
>snip>
----------------------------------------------------------------------http
://sakya-ngor.org/enpages/vierinp1.htm
(Karmapa Urgyen Trinley Dorje - the other one - Phende Kenchen's visit there :)
http://www.karmapa-europe.net/Website_fr/KKTL_FR/kktl_fr.html# >
This is a state of art post of this thread. First, the Karmapa link stating
that the Sakyas have the lineage of the Kagyus lost and called the "Marpa
Tantras". Second, Phende Kenchen's link and biography with the teachings that
he possess and that include the (above - "Marpa Tantras") Kagyu teachings that
the Karmapas need to save their sect. Thirdly, the link to the other Karmapa
and Phende Kenchen's visit to his temple this summer.
These three elements are enough for all to understand the need for this to be
organised so that Tibetan Buddhism is protected from extinction upon Phende
Kenchen's death, the only lama possessing the full teachigns of Tibetan
Buddhism in the world today and able to pass them on. All other lamas possesing
them are now too old to do that. There is thus no other reason to be invoked by
people of intelligence and seeing that all other hope is lost to save Buddhism.
Kalachakrapa
Trinley Dorje's temple in France
B. Link to Karmapa Thaye Dorje asking for the Gyu De Kun Tus (what he wants
particularly is the "Marpa Tantras" that are included in it.) that only Phende
Kenchen now possess.
C. Phende Kenchen's biography with his study and practise of the
afore-mentioned teaching.
A. I'm going to post the link to the visit to the Karmapa temple that Phende
Kenchen paid this summer : so he's open to both Karmapas and open to giving the
intitatiations of Gyu De Kun Tus, that are the lineage of all sects... to all,
be they of any sect or school as long as they're Tibetan Buddhist Tantrics
(that also includes the Gelugpas finally, seeing Atisha was a Tantric adept and
also a Kalachakra follower par excellence. So, they also belong. Although the
scourge against Tantrism over the centuries is difficult to erase, eh !)
http://www.karmapa-europe.net/Website_fr/KKTL_FR/KKTL_Programme_fr/kktl_pr
ogramme_fr.html
(this is the link to Phende Kenchen's 2004 visit to the temple of Karmapa
Urgyen
Thrinley Dorje. The two Karmapas are thus candidates to the saving of their
tradition through the Gyu De Kun Tus teachings !!! It's which one will come to
it's wits first and wake up from the ignorance of Samasara !!! Sleep is good as
long as it doesn't last too long, right ? Saving the Kagyu school from
extinction must be prioritary in the mind of a head of it's lineage.)
B. the Karmapa Thaye Dorje link :
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
>snip>
C. the Phende Kenchen biography link : (this way being clear, I think people of
all intelligences can read this....)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://sakya-ngor.org/enpages/vierinp1.htm
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
A Short Biography
(A translation from the French original by R.M.L. Samuel)
>snip>
He then received from Phende Khen Rinpoche the monunemtal teaching known as
"The Collection of all the Tantras (Gyu De Kun tus): a comprehensive collection
of all the great initiations with their mandalas and mandala rituals, a rare
teachung of which very few possess the lineage.[Geir :This is the collection
mentioned above in the Karmapa link] This instruction lasted three
years during which he nonetheless continued in the pursuit of his studies.[It
is given quickly nowadays as people don't have three years to give. But there's
also the DrupThab Kuntu collection (below) which, to receive both it and the
Gyu De Kun Tus together, takes a
two year period in all, so it's still a long thing to receive both these
precious collections. They're the most precious colections in the world and the
only way possible to save Buddhism and Tantrism from disappearing.] >snip> And
he received partly from Lama Ngaga and partly from Phende Khen
Rinpoche the complete collection of initiations and sadhanas known as the Drup
Thab Kuntu compiled by Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and completed by his student
Loter Wangpo.
>snip> Settling in France with the idea of founding a centre there, he
succeeded a few years later in 1974 in establishing Ngor Ewam Phende Ling in
Normandy with the help of his disciples .[Geir : I came into the picture with
the first disciples - of which I'm the only one left now...next door
http://www.sakya-ngor.org/pages/program1.htm
http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm ] Here he has since given
GeirSmith
will be able to follow the proceedings of this thread. I worry about these
people. So, I've assembled the links in one; the rest is the same below :
http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
A. I'm going to post the link to the visit to the Karmapa (I) temple that
Phende
Kenchen paid this summer : so he's open to both Karmapas and open to giving the
intitatiations of Gyu De Kun Tus, that are the lineage of all sects... to all,
be they of any sect or school as long as they're Tibetan Buddhist Tantrics
(that also includes the Gelugpas finally, seeing Atisha was a Tantric adept and
also a Kalachakra follower par excellence. So, they also belong. Although the
scourge against Tantrism over the centuries is difficult to erase, eh !)
http://www.karmapa-europe.net/Website_fr/KKTL_FR/KKTL_Programme_fr/kktl_pr
ogramme_fr.html
(this is the link to Phende Kenchen's 2004 visit to the temple of Karmapa
Urgyen
Thrinley Dorje. The two Karmapas are thus candidates to the saving of their
tradition through the Gyu De Kun Tus teachings !!! It's which one will come to
it's wits first and wake up from the ignorance of Samasara !!! Sleep is good as
long as it doesn't last too long, right ? Saving the Kagyu school from
extinction must be prioritary in the mind of a head of it's lineage.)
B. the Karmapa (II)Thaye Dorje link :
http://www.karmapa.org/karmapa_org_redesign/news/news_june_1.htm
>snip>
>snip>
from
>snip>
the Sakya School,
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
centuries that this Tantra transmission is being returned to the Kagyct, the
Sakyas keep the Tantric precepts and discipline pure
and carefully. Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so
you should do a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the
transmission to Kagyu lamas.”
C. the Phende Kenchen biography link : (this way being clear, I think people of
all intelligences can read this....)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://sakya-ngor.org/enpages/vierinp1.htm
His Eminence Ngor Ewam Phende Rinpoche
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
http://www.sakya-ngor.org/pages/program1.htm ] Here he has since given
numerous
profound teachings including the complete Lam Dre; numerous initiations such as
those of Hevajra, Vajrayogini, Bhutadamara, the Protectors, the Wealth Deities,
Avalokitesvara, Tara, Vajrasattva, Manjusri, and Sakya Pandita; and numerous
explanations on practice, on the tantric root vows, the Noble Discourses of
Sakya Pandita (Leg she), the lives of the Mahasiddhas, and others besides.
[Phende Kenchen is the most learned lama of all of Tibetan Buddhism, not least
because of this unique and encyclopedic collection of the Gyu De Kun Tus as
well as the Drup Thab Kuntu ! In the most deep learning of the Tantras which
are the most precious of all Buddhist teachings, he is peerless, matchless. I
hope this is crystal clear to one and all in this post. The fake messiahs and
anti-Buddhist Christians, Muslims, Jews etc...can all go jump in their own
personal lakes : they don't even know what the word Tantra means - so could
they give initiations ? Bwa bwa bwa ! I looked at the dictionnary for the
definition of the word moron but wasn't smart enough to understand it
!!!!]
>snip>
His Eminence Phende Rinpoche was later able with the help of his disciples to
establish two additional centres in France: Ngor Ewam Kunzang Ling in Paris,
and Ngor Ewam Cho Ling at Poitiers. He now travels>snip> to
Taiwan where he has established two centres, one in Taipei and the other in
Tainan.
>the end snipped too>
Concerning the Beast and Anti-Christ and the name George spelling out 666;
well, I'm no Bible-believer and people here know I'm a no uncertain cynical (in
the good meaning of the expression, meaning I'm a real realist per se).
The question indeed, remains after all, of whether the Bible really knows what
it speaks of, or whether it's all hogwash. Are the Bible authors real
visionaries that have prediction powers ? Just as Tibetans have famous oracles
that have been proven right incredible number of times throughout history and
that no one would dream of questioning in Tibetan tradition..... their failings
are also predicted and documented. When the oracle fails it means you're just
about toasted. Reading the oracle favourably is itself half the cure : like
going to a doctor, means you can still be saved. Ummh ! Bwa bwa bwa !
So, if the Bible's Beast and Anti-Christ are real or not, as a cynical, I play
both sides. For me, it dooesn't matter in the least, because it's evident that
the Gyu De Kun Tus's is the role of saving Tibetan Buddhism - because
rationnally, seeing Phende Kenchen is the last lama to hold it,- after him,
comes the abyss. This is not an oracle saying this, this is mathematical. It's
just an old man dying.Thus, the Kalachakra prophecy of preserving and saving
Tibetan Buddhism is filled out by Phende Kenchen and by no other lama, and
nothing can be answered to this irrefutable logic, far from Bible prophecy and
oracle-interpretation. So, I want to ram home that ARBT has to drag itself out
of superstitious thinking so as to enter the realm of logic and real
understanding and no longer hover around in it's uncertain musing about obscure
things and just hold to the facts that are put forth without diversive thinking
that distract from the real truth of this historical moment that only the most
intelleigent here will intercept with.
Things have to be seen clearly with one's eyes.
GeirSmith
http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
Can someone light up these links for me and post them back in the post
preceding this in the thread (below) in the same set-up ?
Thanks. I've tried about three times and they all go dead on me....
(previous post with the dead links :)
Subject: Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
From: geir...@aol.com (GeirSmith)
Date: 06/12/04 12:35 Paris, Madrid
Message-id: <20041206063513...@mb-m17.aol.com>
sco...@nowhere.net
Zen and practiced some, and am still working out the relationship between
Buddhism and Theism, both of which I find some truths in. (As someone else
on this ng put it: "Jesus and Buddha had the same dealer"!)
I'm confident that, in most Zen traditions, what I advised our friend,
above, would be at least close to correct. How does it come across in the
Tibetan context?
GeirSmith
fundies or else other fanatics in all religions of the book or still in
Hinduism etc....all further the doctrine of intolerance and hatred. God must be
eradicated by the Warriors of Shambala. It is the scourge of this world and the
source of all evil. It is the Demon par excellence. It is the great demon that
by being killed will free the world of today from evil. Deliver the world to
compassion and euchumenical tolerance and respect ofr others. Stop the campaign
of terror and hatred of God that is killing the world everywhere.
GeirSmith
the belief in erroneous conepts. God is the worship of error. Furthermore, they
are not aware of the need to see that the Karmapas are intent on saving just a
aprt of Tibetan Buddhism but that's already a good thing in itself. People
should realize that the rest of Tibetan Buddhism that's in the lineage given in
the Gyu De Kun Tus (that the Karmapas wish to receive) is also necessary to be
passed on and received by both the Karmapas and all the lineage holders of
Tibet that still survive in the world and so as to preserve that tradition.
The links here should be lit up so as to help the less intelligent to just
click on them and browse the links. Doing nothing to help me light them up is
conducive to letting Tibetan Buddhism extinguish, as one snuffs out lights.
People of any moral integrity and intellectual breadth should help me in doing
this. Lighting up four links can't be the end of the world. I don't understand
the moral paralysis of people that can't do good and must, as if posessed, do
evil and by abstaining (from helping me) they/you're doing just as bad as evil.
Saying "I didn't know" is the excuse of the French that saw/sent off all the
deportees to camps in WWII and they pay hefty for that till now.
I'm the only one who can help in turn others in this operation seeing the
nature of people is to flock like sheep and follow others. In my Sangha, I've
become over the years the shepherd. People of my Sangha follow me like blind
people, like they do in all Sanghas - to their gurus.
Being the disciple of the last holder of all the lineages of Tibetan Buddhism,
all thus rests upon my posts and you not lighting up my posts means you're
condeming the least intelligent here to not be able to cut and paste (too
difficult for them - a lot of people of leeser wits are not even able to do
that) these links below and thus not understand what I write. Thus, you are
preventing the last preserving of Tibetan Buddhism from continuing. Also, all
those who fight my ideas here, are also doing that, so that's just like Pontius
Pilate's.... just looking away when I pass by. People should realize that this
is/are heady historical moments when the tradition of Tibet must finally be
saved. This is like finding the relics from Egypt and saving them from decay.
People in America used the mummy-wrappings for their meat-papers and thus the
colour of that paper is still brown today,- following that habit. Using Tibetan
tradition too, for packaging one's most stupid ideas, which is what people do
on this ng, is of the same ilk. I use this stupidity and this ng for, my
purpose which is to broadcast virtue and wisdom so that this tradition not be
eradicated and disappear from the world. I turn mud into beauty. I use this ng
so that the lotus grows out of the mud of you, the popel on ARBT that won't
help anyone unless viloence is used. The only language that you understand is
that of vilence. G W Bush understands this and treats you all as enemies, which
is the key to his success. Kalalchakra too just rules by powerful means.
Peaceful means just don't work and the hand helping you is bitten forthright,
right ?
The whole Tibetan Buddhist Salvation rests on me. Take the opportunity or just
stay in your swilled pen. I don't undersatnd why you peoeple are so idiotic and
little intelligent.
http://www.karmapa-europe.net/Website_fr/KKTL_FR/KKTL_Programme_fr/kktl_pr
ogramme_fr.html
>snip>
>snip>
from
>snip>
the Sakya School,
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
very few possess the lineage.[Geir :This is the collection
Bev Thornton
> I'm confident that, in most Zen traditions, what I advised our friend,
> above, would be at least close to correct. How does it come across in the
> Tibetan context?
The same. Impermanence, suffering, grasping, attachment, all that, and the
concepts for them, have to be like the sand mandala and it's all about
waking up in the end.
In some views, Zen is considered Vajrayana.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.irteams.org/>
Happiness is
the outcome of good.
Bev Thornton
> Can someone light up these links for me and post them back in the post
> preceding this in the thread (below) in the same set-up ?
>
> Thanks. I've tried about three times and they all go dead on me....
The only reason they're not 'lighting up' is because of your newsreader
program. They're 'lighting up' just fine on other people's monitors,
those who have theirs' set to do so. You have your's either turned off,
or they are appearing in a different colour in your newsreader program
because you've already visited the links.
The links are fine in everybody else's newsreader, just not in yours.
Doesn't that tell you something about your activity on this newsgroup?
Sunyata.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.foei.org/>
You can only
lose what you cling to.
Bev Thornton
> Deliver the world to compassion and euchumenical tolerance and respect
> ofr others.
You have to start with compassion, tolerance and respect.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.directrelief.org/>
Bev Thornton
>click on them and browse the links. Doing nothing to help me light them up is
>conducive to letting Tibetan Buddhism extinguish, as one snuffs out lights.
>People of any moral integrity and intellectual breadth should help me in doing
>this. Lighting up four links can't be the end of the world. I don't understand
>the moral paralysis of people that can't do good and must, as if posessed, do
>evil and by abstaining (from helping me) they/you're doing just as bad
>as evil.
This is help for you:
Help for Geir Smith
Don't Panic!
1. Talk to The Guru.
The End.
> http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
http://www.tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
> http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://www.tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
> http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://www.tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
> http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
http://www.tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
Are they all lit up for you now? Can you see them with your eyes, clearly?
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.msf.org/>
When you realize how clear everything is,
you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky.
Kalachakrapa
From: kalach...@aol.com (Kalachakrapa)
Date: 07/12/04 14:11 Paris, Madrid
Message-id: <20041207081144...@mb-m11.aol.com>
In Buddhism, once one takes Refuge in the Buddha, one no longer takes refuge in
worldly gods anymore. God is demonic, being the creator of the world, being
truely self-existent etc...and other heretical, erroneous views, and inspiring
all sorts of fanaticism in it's wake. It is the most aweful thing in the world
: the Demon, incarnated. Those that support it are merely misguided heretics
that have no proper philosophical grounding in Buddhismm and know no differnece
between good and evil. The first basis of Buddhism that is morality is totally
foreign to them. The only possible expalantion to such an incredible thing is
that they're just crypto-Christians that won't admit it publically. In Asia,
people all know about Christianty and their deceit. They all know the routine
of missionnaries to deceive their preys. They can deceive people without
education. They are, in turn, our prey. They're not free any longer : we've
cornered them and will now crush them and destroy their God.
>Bev
This is help for you:
Help for Geir Smith
>snip>.
The End.
> http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
http://www.tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
> http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://www.tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
> http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://www.tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
> http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
http://www.tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
Are they all lit up for you now? Can you see them with your eyes, clearly?
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.msf.org/>
When you realize how clear everything is,
you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky.
GeirSmith
>Doesn't that tell you something about your activity on this newsgroup?
>
>Sunyata.
>
So, I'm not a computer-buff and my wife is worse even than me (she set it up
and wanted it to happen but doesn't know how to do it any further than that. If
you want me to shine, take a plane and do our set-up for us. Welcome. Any help
is welcomed. So don't complain. People who are asking can't be complaining. I'm
the one givng you'll the Tnatras and world Buddhism's saving...it's salvation.
So, don't complain to me. I'm your godsend.) ? So ? The Buddha isn't supposed
to a buff at anything but being a pure being and understanding karma and it's
good and evil impact on his fellow men. The Islamic Messiah to come is supposed
likewise to be a totally incapable scholar of Islam who has so little as never
even read the Koran and this is who will be their messiah so ? Figure. Being a
computer-ass is fine. The last will inherit the world and be first. I welcome
the coming of a new age of Light. I don't admire the first, the computer-buffs
of this age of ignorance and darlness that's now.
Julianlzb87
As long as you are welcoming the coming of a new age light
you're in the dark mate.
Julianlzb87
sco...@nowhere.net
Krishnacharya1
http://www.tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
> http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://www.tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
> http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://www.tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
> http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
http://www.tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
I'm not sending anything but the link above of the Karmapas and their intent of
receiving the Gyu De Kun Tus teaching that my guru is alone in possession of at
present.
This is the sole link because this ng is in the hands of Arabs and women. It
doesn't enable anything else to happen. If I speak out, the Arabs close in and
the women attack : it's as simple as that. Thus, the freeing to the next world
comes from this link alone because no other exit is available in this world
that's mined ground.
Choose to be free and not in this world that no longer has any choice in it.
It's the sign of these times that through this link the Tibetan Buddhist
culture is touched adversely by Arabs just as the whole world has been.
Assieged everywhere. For the future of the world - preserving from it also
being blown up, - preserving Tibetan Buddhism is essential as enabled in this
link. It can seem kind of crazy but the facts are like that, that the hostility
here does come from women and Arabs. Must be chance but it sure wouldn't have
been like that ten years ago. But it's them that are at the forefront of
agression and agressivity now. People would have been much more calm in the
past but the freeing of beings in their identity has lead to this kind of
agression.
GeirSmith
Subject: Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
From: geir...@aol.com (GeirSmith)
Date: 06/12/04 12:35 Paris, Madrid
Message-id: <20041206063513...@mb-m17.aol.com>
> http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
http://www.tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
> http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
http://www.tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
> http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
http://www.tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
> http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
http://www.tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
http://www.karmapa-europe.net/Website_fr/KKTL_FR/KKTL_Programme_fr/kktl_pr
ogramme_fr.html
>snip>
>snip>
from
>snip>
the Sakya School,
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
He then received from Phende Khen Rinpoche the monunemtal teaching known as
"The Collection of all the Tantras (Gyu De Kun tus): a comprehensive collection
of all the great initiations with their mandalas and mandala rituals, a rare
teachung of which very few possess the lineage.[Geir :This is the collection
>snip>
>snip>
>snip>
>the end snipped too>
Mahakala : I'm sending this link simply so that the less intelligent among the
readers here can understand my drive. Women and Arabs being the rulers of this
ng, I won't add anything. The Tantric heritage of Buddhism being lost unless
this link goes through and the initiation in it being bestowed, well, it is the
most important part of this post. People here who are oblivious to being
cultivated and that this is the most important factor in the world today (and
that Tibetan culture and Buddhism is the most rare and presious thing in the
world) should learn from this post. Those among you that have no learning,
because of poor karma, should learn from those here that do have learning and
are able to understand the content of my posts. So, many people here, despite
seeing the wrting on the post, don't understand what the lines there mean.
People here are of several kinds : those that understand and those that don't.
The first should initiate the second. Or at least, tell them they're less
intelligent. The beginning of wisdom is seeing oneself's madness. The less
intelligent should do as told to do in the sacred books. First of all, seek a
qualified guru. I'm a thirty-three year Buddhist, but there are also some
posters here who have a relative understanding too, and that can be of a degree
of help to someone who understands practically nothing of the contents of my
posts. Ask them for help rather than resist and fight with your deficiencies
alone without outside help to your inner dilemma.
This is important because, after all, the main harm is that which you do to
yourself and helping yourself out is also helping, first of all, yourself.
Sylva Simsova
It may interest you to know that clicking on one of the addresses at the
top of your email produced a connection with the Web page.
(I did not test the others)
You don't need to worry that the people would not be able to read these
pages.
The links are not dead.
In article <20041206112156...@mb-m16.aol.com>, GeirSmith
<geir...@aol.com> writes
>http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
> Can someone light up these links for me and post them back in the post
>preceding this in the thread (below) in the same set-up ?
>
>Thanks. I've tried about three times and they all go dead on me....
>
>
>
>(previous post with the dead links :)
>
>Subject: Re: Hello : Kingdom of Shambala
>From: geir...@aol.com (GeirSmith)
>Date: 06/12/04 12:35 Paris, Madrid
>Message-id: <20041206063513...@mb-m17.aol.com>
>
>The links are not lighting up so I'm afraid that the less intelligent on the ng
>will be able to follow the proceedings of this thread. I worry about these
>people. So, I've assembled the links in one; the rest is the same below :
--
Sylva Simsova
Kalachakrapa
Dear Geir,
Geir : Thanks for the information.
Kalachakrapa
>From: Sylva Simsova
Dear Geir,
Geir : I need to elucidate some things around the giving of this cycle of
Tantras mentioned in this link.
Arabs blowing up the world in panorama vision and surround sound isn't very
good - at all.
God as the ideology that Buddhism has combatted for a few millenia and it being
denied the right to be debated here on the ng, because of objections based on
denying the right to opinon and to debate, is not favourable to freedom of
opinion in our times.
Arab objection to freedom is not right and using force to impose on others is
not right - at all.
The objection to sex si also not right. Not in Tantrism of all traditions. It's
denying the essential kernel of Tantrism to do that. The fundamentalist
puritanism that is invading America has no room on ARBT. Indeed, (as all
Tantrics know - to begin with the Karmapas and all lamas as well....) what is
the norm in public life in America cannot be correct in this ng's life here,
which is based on Tibetan Buddhism : and it's emphasis on Tantra. Tantra's
sexual emphasis is well enough known to not need more explaining. Denying the
right to speak explicitly about sex in the view of objections formulated by
fundamental Christianity's thinking, is a denial of the nature of Buddhism and
it's thousand year-old fight against prejedices and fundamentalist ideas.
Women denying the right to speak out for men, also denies the right for men to
practise Buddhism far from the influence of women, that both the Buddha
instaured by creating the Sangha, and that was continued by the Ngor tradition
that followed the Buddha's pure discipline, not falling into the error of
pedofilia f.ex. nor letting go of the essence of Tantra, the highest of
Buddha's Teachings, recognized by all lamas; to begin with the Dalaï-Lama.
Women observing the tradition of the Buddha in a respectful way is good.
Disrespect for the Buddha-Dharma in women is not good in my opinion. Communists
support all those who oppose and vow for Buddha's destruction. I oppose this
with force.
The Karmapas asking for the teaching, that my guru now alone possesses,
supports the continuing of the tradition of the Tantras and the Buddha Dharma,
and thereby enhances the continuation of it's fight against the doctrines that
it judges to be heretical, which fight is the basis for it's existence.
When Buddha's Sangha will disappear, the Dharma will also disappear, as the
Buddha Himself stated. Attacks to the Sangha, either from women that hate
monks, or by Arabs that just want to destroy all culture other than their own,
are not conducive to any continued culture in our difficult times.
If they are let to be free, only rubbles will be left in the world today.
Being in harmony with the world is a part of the Buddha Dharma that one should
learn from, because that's what makes the world a place one can live happily
in.
GeirSmith
>http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
The Karmapas may not meet up to the historic opportunity and it's small window
of opportunity that's now before us. Then the decadence of tradition will be
fulfilled and they'll only have the incomplete tradition they have gotten, and
also that being a broken one, from India, and not a direct one from Tibet, as
my guru will bestow. Thus, the doors will be thrown open to the enemies of
Buddhism, that vow to finish with it : Christianity, Islam, Atheism, modern
progressive culture, vowing to counter all religions and traditions, deeming
them to be archaic, as the most primitive Darwinist scientists openly declared
earlier in the century,.... even if they hide a little more now to do so,
covertly adopting an open attitude towards old traditions. Also, the
puritanical rejection of all sexuality that makes sex-debunking open hunting
for fundamentalists, is a power to be reckoned with. Indeed, for Tantrics, such
as on a Tibetan ng like here, it is a matter of survival of culture to forward
the agenda of sex within society, and to combat the forces that made the open
trial of Clinton a matter of international concern. The post I sent about the
Mahasiddha Bhabahi earlier,(Is this shocking to fundamentalists ? I hope so.)
thus is not only appropriate to post here, but so much more so, necessary. So
as to forward the cause of Tantrism in an obscurantist society such as America
is creating now. It is thus absolutely essential to debunk the fundamentalist
puritanism that prevails and that some ignorants on ARBT seem to want to also
permeate this ng with. Bhabahi, because, being one of the 84 Mahasiddhas , He
constitutes the cornerstone, the fundamental basis of Tantrism upon which it is
built; that unique and wonderful culture : that unique culture in the world,
it's highest and purest among cultures of the world. No other culture can
compare to it in purity and refinement.
I'll thus repost Bhabahi from it's previous thread onto this thread here. Thus,
the Tantric teachings to be obtained by the Karmapas and this Tantric
illustration are all on the same thread together. Appropriately so for Tantric
lore.
>Geir : Let me add : In the "Buddha's Lions" by Abhayadatta; translated by
James
B. Robinson. Publisher "Dharma". p. 141.
Babhahi.
The meaning of Babhahi is "the Man Who Gets Milk from Water". In the land of
Dhanjura, there lived a man of ksatriya caste, who was attracted to all the
advantages of kingship. A well-disciplined yogin came to him asking for food
and provisions. The ksatriya offered him food and drink, and then took faith
and asked for the Dharma.
The yogin said, "Faith is the root of the entire Dharma. The guru is the root
of all siddhi." Then he gave him the intitation which transfers spiritual power
and gave instructions on the siddhi, prajna, and bindu, in this way. (note.)
"With that special body possessing method
mix the semen with the great ocean of blood
and hold it in the mandala of the vulva.
When you have carried it to it's proper place,
it will spread within, causing unbroken joy.
When you have overcome joy with joy,
Meditate that it is inseparable from emptiness."
Taking this into his mind, he purified the stains obstructing his vision, and
in twelve years, he obtained siddhi. He performed many benefits for those to be
trained, saying :
"As the king of geese
separates milk from water,
the instructions of a revered guru
draw out the elixir of enlightenment"
And in that very body, he went to the realm of the Dakas.
Note : The nadis (Tibetan "rtsa") are the three columns or "veins" visualized
in Tantric practises, which run through the length of the head and torso : the
right vein (Sanskrit "lalana", Tibetan "ro-ma"), the left vein (Sanskrit
"rasana", Tibetan "rkyang-ma") and the middle vein (Sanskrit
"avadhuti", Tibetan "dbu ma").
Through these veins move the "breath" (Sanskrit "prana", Tibetan "rlung") and
the "energy flow" (Sanskrit "bindu", Tibetan "thig le"). Sexual imagery is
often used to indicate a process of unification and purification. As the right
and left veins merge into the middle vein, which is the main channel for
the "breath" ("rlung gi les") that which has started as desire/attachment then
rises into the great joy of Buddhahood.>
Krishnacharya1
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
The news about the teaching the Karmapas wish for and their getting it from
Phende Kenchen is indeed good tidings seeing the Tantric Buddhism of Tibet can
be preserved for the lamas by it being bestowed with their sponsorship. I hope
this good news is propagated widely because such good news only is possible
this time and will never come again. This is a one-time thing and I hope this
news-flash will bring joy and happiness to all the followers of Tantrism and
Lord Buddha !.
Kalachakrapa
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
Delaying in the asking of this teaching from my master is not a good idea for
the Karmapas nor for other lamas.
He's an old man now and the result will be terrible otherwise.
Time will bring hell, so this delay is just a false peace, and a real road to
hell.
All lamas should hasten because the Karmapa II asked Chobgay Trichen for that
teaching.... and because he was unable to give the long ceremony of it, he
resorted to getting it from the other lama that had gotten it from Chobgay. But
that initiation was not received in Tibet, straight from the great master
there, but from India. It is thus a broken lineage. One that is indirectly
received.
People here on ARBT can be the Guardians of the Temple and the over-watchers of
It's purity.
With Buddhism lost in the sands of exile, it is thus most important, when
receiving initiations, that they be of the utmost, impeccable purity : and be
straight from the original source in Tibet. Fake sources will not do.
For the Karmapas, that are intent on reactivating their lost tradition, getting
the tradition from second hands, as in India, is thus greatly detrimental to
them.
Only they will suffer from this and the tradition will also be lost due to
this.
There being doubt, as I voice here, will not be beneficial to it, because
covering it up as a pure tradition, will not be beneficial either because of
this not being, in fact, true.
Basing all on deceit is not the true Tantric Path.
We can all be witness to this : that if the real tradition is not requested,
slowly the slipping into decadence will happen before our eyes. Tibetan
Buddhism will no longer have any relevance, unless the high hierarchy reacts,
requiring the utmost, best quality of ceremony, rather than going for
substitutes.
At present, in India, the quality of Buddhism is miserable : resorting to
merely this quality of Buddhism, is really as miserable as it is.
We see thus that Buddhism is taking a hit in India that is unprecedented in all
of it's history.
The end of Buddhism is thus outlining for the future, and it looks as if the
high hierarchy is not up to this challenge that is not able to meet with.
The new generation of lamas is not of the cloth of the preceding one that could
face great hardship and challenge.
The new one just accepts defeat and humiliation without budging one bit.
They take everything sitting down.
Thus, the true tradition of Tibet cannot be continued because it requires
people going beyond their boundaries to realize it.
It looks as if the highest and most difficult teachings of Tantrism are on the
verge of being lost.
This is due to the bad quality of disciples available today in the world.
Unless the Karmapas can request those teachings, and offer their sponsorship so
that vast numbers of people can, likewise, receive the direct, pure tradition
from Tibet, all will be lost for ever.
This is the only way becaus unless given to a large number, it's perennity
cannot be insured for generations to come.
The false peace of today will thus just lead to hell on earth.
Only by breathing fire and brimstone can real creative continuation be insured.
Peace and quiet is the death of night.
GeirSmith
>http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
>Delaying in the asking of this teaching from my master is not a good idea for
>the Karmapas nor for other lamas.
>
>He's an old man now and the result will be terrible otherwise.
>
Delaying is giving in to the Lord of Death when one could escape his grasp
seeing the teaching mentioned here insures immortality.
The Karmapas that I mention here are not minor lamas, so I don't understand the
omitting of any mention, on this ng, of me and my presence. In the gossip of
self-interested posters, that talk about themselves, and count themseves - like
club-members - as a group of clansmen that count themselves - so as to develop
a feeling of belonging; and thus of being different from others, well, I'm
always omitted and cut out. This is good for me.... because belonging is not a
thing the Buddha ever recommended : He who chose the outcaste status in his
wandering, fearless, unfettered life. He always took the seat of the least
honoured and the least "accepted".
But it's rather that I don't understand the functionning of the brains of the
people here in their very error of constiuting a favoured group of people,
which group, of course, "they" occupy the choice positions in ! Duh ! Don't
expect them to take the back or bottom seats ! Nothing but the best for them,
of course...
Why don't I understand it ? Because the Karmapas are high lamas that had a
position reserved for the top ten of the official hierarchical pecking-order of
Tibet. the Karmapa-Dzurphu temple though not of the size of Sakya, to mention
it, was still a pretty big center of religion. I've sent the links to the
Karmapas and don't understand that these important links and the meanings
behind sending this, not include this evolution of the threads on the ng and
it's internal gossipping. Even less intelligent people, who are unable to
sustain a discussion about the basics of Tantric Buddhism, being totally
unaware of the basics of it; should nevertheless understand the high status of
such lamas as Karmapa.
My guru, Phende Kenchen, the head of Ngor, was the fourth highest lama after
the Dalaï-Lama, the Panchen and Sakya Lamas, in Tibet, Ngor being the head of
Tibet's second biggest sect. His monastery of Ngor was the largest monastic
centre with it's dependant temples of Tibet, after the Gelugpa ones.
I thus tick at this omitting of my presence on the ng that's systematically cut
out of all the recaps of posters and their influences on the ng;. I'm indeed,
the one who brings the links to real things here rather than the
dream-illusuions of people here that have no idea what they'retalking about at
all. In the years here, I've practically not ever been mentionned except for
being attacked. (Not an ego thing for me, but the influence of my links and
posts is so proportionally.... phenominally more important than all the
others.... that It's like 'crying out loud' in terms of non-sensical
misunderstanding.)
It's mostly in peoples' heads that things are not in, what I see as, order.
The four highest lamas,- the three others and my guru - can't be ignored : the
Penchen is the head officially, as of now, of the Chinese I,2 billion-strong
Chinese Buddhist Church. And He's just the second in pecking-order; so no one
on this planet and even less so Buddhists per se; can just brush off, as
insignificant, the links to these lamas, and their deeds. A person that's fully
aware of these implications such as me, and also being myself recognized (as
reincarnation from Tibet) by the fourth highest lama of this hierarchical order
(Phende Kenchen) thus makes this omitting of all mention of it, laughable on
this ng. Of this ng, indeed, no one knows the functionning of real Tibet, and
it's top brass, better than me. I've indeed, never read anything but lop-sided
accounts of all this. From one single point of ,view only. I've been impressed
by the lack of the reality-on-the-ground displayed by the posters here, who all
live in virtual worlds, created by, not only their minds, but by their
illusion, and accessorily too, by their misinformed sources, misconceptions and
idiocies.
The general impression one gets of people on ARBT, is of slothenly, lazy
posters, without any real interest in factual reality but rather the will to
indulge in infantile dreams. Also a general lack of grasp of reality as a
whole. It's a real handicap to communication actually.
Through the top brass of Tibet, I thus live in the world of the 1,6 billion
Buddhists worldwide and their chief-clergies, but also, I have no link to the
dark little worlds that the people fo this ng live in, in their dudgy little
existences that they can't see beyond, to embrace the premises of reality that
lies out before them. This is created by their befoggled minds and cannot be
explored outside of the supernatural powers of the fully realized Buddhas'
Omniscience. Maybe this is the reaason I'm here on ARBT, but it better just be
a shortening stop-over, because the problems in this dump, are truely
immeasureable,... as are also the powers of Buddhas.
But living next to people for years here, I don't see why a kind of deference
has set in between me and people, a deference that borders on insanity. I do
have close relations to the list of people on this list that I talked about
last week and with just about everyone else as well. And we have had our posts
together wit all practically : even if cordial relations are limited to the few
of us that mutually respect each other. But those are also quite a few if one
looks at the list of them. So, I don't think a very deferential treatment is in
order on a Buddhist ng - where all are to be treated equally.... and where
differences should not be a problem. If I come from Mars, (being from Tibet ? -
in my previous life - Tibet's not Mars anyways) that shouldn't be a problem.
"Mars Attacks !" shouldn't be the script for this action-scenario. After all,
that was a movie not reality and we're in the world now. This is, after all,
about the high lamas that direct the actions of over a billion people out of
the six in the world, which in turn means it concerns the destinies of one out
of four "Earthlings" !!! So, just a footnote in the recaps of the posters of
this ng seems appropriate, to say the least. I mean, the Tsar of Russia lived
in the USA for years, but being a total "nobody" after ruling the world's
largest country is not the most appropriate thing I can imagine.But he was a
wordly person. It's not he same with clergy who have spernatural powers and
erudition to boot. My guru is now little in the world, but his teachings still
make him the Lord of the Universe. These make Him unique above all the other
lamas just for the uniqueness of the rareness of this lineage-transmission.
People who don't understand this are not in my opinion true Buddhists. At
least, they're oblivious innocents here on a Buddhist ng, and should be at
alt.Idon/didn't know.
Kalachakrapa
are in Buddhism but just indulge in specualtive banter insoired by Christian
theological quest. Can't fathiom people who, confronted with Buddhism, see it
through the lense of Western thought and philosophical thinking that's straight
out of the Western Chrtistian theology. Can't fathom people who go to an
enchanted treasure island and come back with nothing. Can't fathom people who
sow on an old field that'll reap no new crop. Can't fathom boring people
that're conseravtive in their initiative and not adventurous at all in
searching for new things in religion - like birds migrate to new climes when it
gets cold. Can't fathom people like birds in winter. Can't fathom people that
don't know what flying means and that are wing-clipped on the ground, hopping
around miserably as if one-foot jumps were travelling. Can't fathom people that
can't see the religious dimension the Buddhist religion and make reductionist
assessments of it boiling tit, down to university speculative art. Can't fathom
people without inspiration in the least degree.
GeirSmith
Geir : China will get it's arms but it'll have to face up about the human
rights issue in it's country. ARBT have any morality ?
EU split on China arms ban, but 'tide turning' toward lift
THE HAGUE (AFP) - The European Union (news - web sites) remains split over
lifting the 15-year-old arms embargo on China, but "the tide is turning" and
the bloc appears set to end the ban sooner or later, diplomats said.
While few were willing to speculate on when that might be, the campaign
spearheaded by France and Germany appears to be gaining momentum inside the
25-member bloc, they said.
"The tide is turning in that direction," said an EU source after an EU-China
summit in The Hague (news - web sites) clouded by the arms embargo issue, which
Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao slammed as a relic of the Cold War.
French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder have
been the most vocal supporters of lifting the embargo, slapped on Beijing after
the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, while Italy has also made it clear it backs
ending the ban.
According to EU sources, countries which might lean towards ending the ban
include Spain, while Britain and Sweden could also be convinced under the right
circumstances.
The most reluctant to ease restrictions on selling arms to China are understood
to include the Nordic states, where concerns about human rights abuse remain
the strongest, diplomats say.
EU source underline that the rights concern is shared by all, even if views
vary on whether it should be decisive on the arms issue. "There is a linkage
between human rights and arms sales," said one EU source.
But apart from rights, two key factors are influencing the debate: one
technical and one political.
The technical one is an already-existing voluntary EU code of conduct on arms
sales to anywhere in the world.
There is general agreement that, if the China ban is to be lifted, the code of
conduct has to be beefed up -- to ensure the floodgates are not opened to allow
China, for instance, to bolster its arsenal in its tense standoff with Taiwan.
How exactly to strengthen the code is under intense discussion among the 25 EU
member states, with the focus on options such as bolstering the obligation to
notify all fellow EU states about any arms deals.
One official said there could even be agreement on this by the end of the year,
although others urge caution.
But the political factor influencing the debate is potentially more tricky: it
is pressure from the United States, which is openly fiercely opposed to lifting
the embargo.
It is understood that this is potentially a greater factor for countries with
traditionally strong ties with Washington, such as Britain whose special
relationship was so well tested during the Iraq (news - web sites) war.
This could even include the Netherlands, which currently holds the EU
presidency, some critics suggest, although Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot
underlined Wednesday that he was working "assiduously" to lift the ban.
Bot also said he hopes the embargo can be ended next year. "I hope so, for
them," he told a small group of reporters.
The embargo was decided on June 27, 1989, three weeks after the Tiananmen
Square crackdown which left hundreds, perhaps more than a thousand dead and
sparked outrage around the world.
Countries like France argue that, a decade and a half later, the ban is
"outdated." The Chinese premier said Wednesday it was "a result of the Cold
War."
Whatever its fate, China's prime minister sought to reassure his European
counterparts at Wednesday's summit that Beijing has no intention of going on an
arms spending spree once the ban ends.
"Lifting the embargo would not mean that China would start buying lots of arms
from the EU," he said.
"It would mean getting rid of a political discrimination against China."
Kalachakrapa
I'm not a lama - but I'm a genuine Tibetan reincarnation, officially recognized
by Phende Kenchen, the fourth highest lama of Tibetan Buddhism.
Nobody on ARBT, or in the world, has this, as far as Westerners are concerned,
so why the deferential and outcasting tone ?
Among Westerners, I'm unique and all the more so on ARBT. Is ARBT too small for
this ? Can't take stock of it ? I don't know and can't /don't give a darn.
People have to move fast and make their days because these will otherwise turn
into their nights.
This is the last run for Tibetan Buddhism, and the only possibility to save it
is now; so people who block up and can't react to the situation and remain
operational in these times of need, well, only the people who can hit the
ground running, only they should report up to Shambala for service.
So, yeah ! Why am I a pariah here ? Even if people can't relate to me on a
personal level, they should relate to the role that's been given me by the
Tibetan hierarchy on the level of a Buddhist practitionner.
The question of my role here on ARBT, is in fact a quetion being high-lighted
here, of the level of consciousness of each of people of ARBT, and their fear
of the outside world and their relationship to that inner force inside them :
their fear of the other.
And I'm not that other, just their own misconception of their minds..Dealing
with peoples' anguishes is tough, but it's all in a day's work. Patience is
very much a part of the job... but getting people to wake up with some
electro-shocks is also a full part of it too. Zonkkkkkkkk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bev Thornton
> WHy'm I a pariah on ARBT ?
You're not. You're just writing too much nonsensical material that is
being driven by some kind of madness; passion, aggression and ignorance.
> I'm not a lama - but I'm a genuine Tibetan reincarnation, officially
> recognized by Phende Kenchen, the fourth highest lama of Tibetan Buddhism.
That's nice, but we've all been your mother, we've all been your father
and we've all had a go at life here and there, everywhere. Never let
rebirth go to your head, it's already there and that is the problem.
> Nobody on ARBT, or in the world, has this, as far as Westerners are concerned,
> so why the deferential and outcasting tone ?
Because you're confused and you are confusing other people too with what
you write here. A lot of it is just plain wrong, misleading, not true.
> Among Westerners, I'm unique and all the more so on ARBT.
That's one of those, 'you know you're in trouble when' things. I follow
Gelug tradition, it's one of the first things about the qualities of
students covered in Lam Rim. It's in all the rest of the sects too and
it's in other forms of tantra as well. Thinking you're special this way or
special that way is an obstacle. Deal with it.
> Is ARBT too small for this?
ARBT does not really have fixed size. It's a newsgroup, a kind of
virtual bulletin board that just keeps growing. Recognize illusions.
> Can't take stock of it ? I don't know and can't /don't give a darn.
If you "don't give a darn," then why are you writing all the panicked
material about the Gyu De Kun Tas? All people need is the opportunity. The
material that you're writing here is more likely to turn individuals away
from the teachings than lead them to the teachings. When the teachings
expand, we'll all celebrate; when they become available, many will attend.
There's nothing to worry about, there's only practice to actually do.
> People have to move fast and make their days because these will otherwise turn
> into their nights.
All days turn into nights. All born die. Basic impermanence.
> This is the last run for Tibetan Buddhism,
'Tibetan' refers to a nation, it's political, ethnic. The Vajrayana is
alive and practiced in Bhutan, Kalmykia, Mongolia, Nepal and Tibet and is
spreading throughout the world. The last run won't be for 400 years and by
then the cat will be in the bag. So, there's nothing to worry about that
way, there's only practice to do. Have confidence.
> and the only possibility to save it is now;
If 'Tibetan' Buddhism passes that doesn't matter. The Dharmachakras are
already turning. The Forceful, Iron Wheel will come with Rudra Chakrin. If
you want to help it come, just do your practice. 'Tibetan' is just a word
for some thing illusory, for a mind-made distinction. Basic emptiness.
It's up to the lineage holders to maintain their lineages, not anyone
else. His Holiness, the two Karmapas, and so on, are all doing that as
best they can. So, there's no need to panic people here, that is no use
for anyone's practice.
Besides, look:
Venerable Tenga Rinpoche
Kalachakra Initiation - Jonang Tradition
August 16 to 21, 2005
Grabnik, Poland
http://www.benchen.org.pl/
http://www.kalachakra.org.pl/
So, now both Sun and Moon shine in the West and around the World. There's
nothing to get all worked-up about other than your own practice.
> so people who block up and can't react to the situation and remain
> operational in these times of need, well, only the people who can hit the
> ground running, only they should report up to Shambala for service.
Oh, knock it off already. That's the problem, egoistic elitism. Like, the
Kalachakra and Shambhala teachings themselves, who were they for in the
first place? Everyone can report for 'Shambhala service,' anyone. And for
those who don't want to sign-up, well, we'll just do our thing and let
them see the Ten-Fold Powerful One and whatever and that will spread the
seed just fine.
> So, yeah ! Why am I a pariah here ? Even if people can't relate to me on a
> personal level, they should relate to the role that's been given me by the
> Tibetan hierarchy on the level of a Buddhist practitionner.
And what role is that? Confuser of Westerners? We've had enough of those.
Political pawn? We don't need anymore of those either. Buddhist
practitioner? Well, join the Sangha and stop playing politics and
spreading confusions.
> The question of my role here on ARBT, is in fact a quetion being high-lighted
> here, of the level of consciousness of each of people of ARBT, and their fear
> of the outside world and their relationship to that inner force inside them :
> their fear of the other.
No. That is all your problem. Your fear of whatever it is you have
concocted in your head as the 'other.' Basic buddhanature.
> And I'm not that other, just their own misconception of their minds..Dealing
> with peoples' anguishes is tough, but it's all in a day's work. Patience is
> very much a part of the job... but getting people to wake up with some
> electro-shocks is also a full part of it too. Zonkkkkkkkk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But you're not waking anyone up. You're stirring conflict and creating
schism. You're practicing and promoting elitism. You've fostered violent
imagery in the minds of others. You've slandered the Dharma.
Somehow you are missing the impermanence, emptiness and buddhanature of
the situation. Your practice is off-kilter, messed-up somehow, you'd best
write to, or better, see your teacher, than write strange polemics on the
Internet.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.canadianlandmine.org/>
Always think of giving.
Kalachakrapa
>Kalachakrapa
F minus.
Tantrism being lost, makes your post a F minus.
By the Gyu De Kun Tus not being preserved and only preserved partially by the
Karmapas concerning the few Tantras of it they received and that from a broken
lineage from India (not the direct one from Tibet) make your post a F minus
because when that lineage of teaching becomes all lost because of people like
interfering with people who have faith (and thus committing the root Tantric
down fall of turning someone with faith away from the Dhamra - so the person
with bad attitude and braeth isyo not me Mister ! And tone down your brotherly
Dharmic tone when talking to fellow Buddhists or else I see little reason for
thinking you have that Buddhist cultivation you boast of having, seeing you
critisize me - isn't it said, "Thrown not stones from a glass house" ?)
F minus and your post sent straight into the trashcan because if you can't
conjure up the Guyu De Kun Tus from the dead once it's been *disappeared* by
the likes of you.... distracting people from righteously being afraid (as you
so consistantly criticize in the litany of criticisms in your post s) of the
disappearing of tradition, and if you can't conjure it up from the dead with
some magical potion, I don't think your logic is worth a penny.
My Ngor tradition is based on logic.
Apparently your tradition is absed on magic.
Without Tantras I don't think you're on any path. The Dalaď-Lama claims rightly
that the Tantras are the highest of the Buddha's teachings. I agree with him;
you're at odds with that, because nowhere do you adress saving Tibetan Buddhism
and it's Tantric heritage. You have an irresponsable attitude towards the holy
tradition of Tibet. New people here on ARBT should, indeed, now, have a good
idea about exactly what kind of speech you're in the midst of expressing here.
I adress the cause of downfall and then pinpoint the antidote to it's saving.
You deny the downfall and the losing of the Tantric tradition with the deaths
of it's two last representatives and then go on to so uncouth a thing as to
write that those who would engage in this administring of the antidote through
helping to make it avaliable because they're, indeed, afraid of the future and
being lost, well, you go on to declare these people wrong and erring in
intention or design. You're on an all-wrong agenda : and fear-mongering
doesn't seem something *you* are foreign to. My fear-mongering or what you
claim that to be, is a well-founded and understood fear of the future just as
anyone would worry about getting his meals everyday. It's just avoiding being
left in one's next life without having done one's utmost to protect the Dharma
from decadence which indeed, is an important part of the Buddha's Dharma and an
important part of the Bodhicitta vow towards all beings.
Ad hominem attacks without any basis in the real issue of the posts are a thing
that this ng has given up a few years ago and the new-comers like you have not
laundered in. This ng has gone on to other things, Namdrol, and what you saw
when you were here three years ago is over and out on the garbage heap as of
now. This ng has now actually been taken over by forces that you don't
understand. Give up your weapons and come nicely now. Lower your head to get
into the car. It's all over now. I never saw you again after the invasion of
Afganistan, Moron of the Quadrimillenium.
Or was it "Dickhead" ? If you weren't so vociferous....you could be more civil.
Bev Thornton
> Tantrism being lost, makes your post a F minus.
Tantrism is not lost. And what is missing from Tibet now is being put
back. Just last night I attended a presentation documenting it. All the
lineage holders are working together and keeping everything going just
fine. Even the United Nations is helping in a way. You could maybe get
some relief just from paying attention to what is really going on
regarding preserving the traditions.
This assumption you seem to have, "Tantrism being lost," is simply wrong,
misleading. The Buddha did what had to be done, the Wheels are turning.
Guru Rinpoche did what had to be done, the termas are planted. Tantrism
was almost lost by the mid-20th century, but now it is strengthening and
growing again. It is spreading.
> By the Gyu De Kun Tus not being preserved and only preserved partially by the
> Karmapas concerning the few Tantras of it they received and that from a broken
> lineage from India (not the direct one from Tibet) make your post a F minus
> because when that lineage of teaching becomes all lost because of people like
> interfering with people who have faith (and thus committing the root Tantric
> down fall of turning someone with faith away from the Dhamra - so the person
> with bad attitude and braeth isyo not me Mister ! And tone down your brotherly
> Dharmic tone when talking to fellow Buddhists or else I see little reason for
> thinking you have that Buddhist cultivation you boast of having, seeing you
> critisize me - isn't it said, "Thrown not stones from a glass house" ?)
You've built your own glass house out of those sorts of ravings. For
instance, in 1959 there was only a single Rinpoche holding the lineage of
Stainless Light, Venerable Kirti Tsenshab Rinpoche. That was before the
Tibetan diaspora. Now that lineage is spread all over the world. Maybe you
should review the teachings regarding the reign of King Aniruddha.
Besides, the Other Kalachakra is being taught now, not lost at all.
The lineage holders are doing everything they can to preserve the
teachings; everything we can do to preserve those teachings is to practice
them. Inflaming passions and fears in the hearts and minds of others is
not practicing them at all.
Also, you have to consider the entire cycle of teachings and pay attention
to the entire cycle of practice, not just little bits here and there
isolated out of context. Dukkha, samudaya, nirodha, magga, sila, prajna,
samadhi, annata, anitya, sunyata, tathagatagarbha. Nothing to worry about,
everything is perfect.
> F minus and your post sent straight into the trashcan because if you can't
> conjure up the Guyu De Kun Tus from the dead once it's been *disappeared* by
> the likes of you.... distracting people from righteously being afraid (as you
> so consistantly criticize in the litany of criticisms in your post s) of the
> disappearing of tradition, and if you can't conjure it up from the dead with
> some magical potion, I don't think your logic is worth a penny.
"Righteously being afraid"? What kind of Buddhist practice is that?
Spreading of fear? and no one "the likes of" me is going to be doing any
disappearing of any cycles of teachings, that's simply not in a normal
person's power. If the lineage becomes broken because it is not passed on
before the two current holders die that will have to do with the play of
the five niyamas in the time of life for them and those around them, where
willful activity will actually have influence. Myself, right now, I just
want to see more people initiated into the mandala and more people
practicing. Fear and hatemongering won't cause that, so viola, you have
something here to reply to.
> My Ngor tradition is based on logic.
>
> Apparently your tradition is absed on magic.
No, it's based on the teachings of The Buddha which include methods of
developing sila, prajna and samadhi through the practice of the Eightfold
Path. The logic used follows Nagarjuna. The actual method I follow is
from Lama Je Tsongkhapa. There's no 'magic' involved. It all lies
alongside Sutra and all bears the Four Seals. People are sometimes
confused by appearances, but that is how these times are and dealing with
it is only a matter of heedfulness.
>Without Tantras I don't think you're on any path. The Dalaď-Lama claims
>rightly that the Tantras are the highest of the Buddha's teachings. I agree
>with him; you're at odds with that, because nowhere do you adress saving
>Tibetand Buddhism and it's Tantric heritage.
We save it by practicing and dedicating the practice to the beings of the
realms and bardos. We do it by actually working, not by raving our
personal confusions to all and sundry. And certainly not by making
misleading presentations regarding the Dharma.
> You have an irresponsable attitude towards the holy tradition of Tibet.
> New people here on ARBT should, indeed, now, have a good idea about
> exactly what kind of speech you're in the midst of expressing here.
I'm pretty sure they can read or listen for themselves. There's nothing to
worry about regarding that either.
You may have heard of the dangers of tantra gone wrong. Some of what you
have written in to this newsgroup appears just like that. That is why I've
asked you to contact your Guru. Another person asked about writing your
Guru too. Maybe they did that for the same reason, I don't know, but I
imagine it was the same.
One thing I've noticed is that you've failed to make the distinction
between teachings that are fully drawn out and those which must be
inferred. That causes the same misunderstandings as occur to hearers when
they contact teachings that are beyond their current capability to
understand. There is one bad sign. Another thing is fomenting of passions,
of fear and such, in self and others; so, there are two bad signs. Annd
then, where is your faith in the Guru? If not the current lineage holder
and the activity he can take to teach Vajra Masters for the Gyu De Kun
Tus, then even for Guru Rinpoche, his teachings and termas, and Shakyamuni
Buddha and what Wheels He already set in motion?
> I adress the cause of downfall and then pinpoint the antidote to it's saving.
If you'd take a look at the world, you'd see that the antidote has already
been applied. If it works, great; if it doesn't, great. Rudra Chakrin is
coming. We await the 97th year of his reign.
> You deny the downfall and the losing of the Tantric tradition with the deaths
> of it's two last representatives
Stop right there. First, they aren't dead yet. Second, the Other
Kalachakra is already preserved and being taught. Third, that is how it
should be for now; this is the reign of King Aniruddha.
> and then go on to so uncouth a thing as to
> write that those who would engage in this administring of the antidote through
> helping to make it avaliable because they're, indeed, afraid of the future and
> being lost, well, you go on to declare these people wrong and erring in
> intention or design.
No "these people" to it--just you with what you write into this newsgroup.
you are misleading people. You've even slandered Dharma with what you've
written about women. Things like that, within appropriate context, are to
be addressed. This being an appropriate newsgroup makes the context
appropriate for addressing those views.
> You're on an all-wrong agenda : and fear-mongering doesn't seem
> something *you* are foreign to.
That's because I keep encountering it in the world, sometimes in your
posts made to this newsgroup. As a Buddhist, part of my practice is to
subdue fear and terror. As an engaged Buddhist, part of my practice is to
subdue fear and terror in others. So, I am no stranger to fear and terror
nor its mongers.
What kind of Buddhism promotes fear? and where can those teachings lie
alongside Sutra? or how is it that they could bear the Four Seals?
Study and meditate on that for a moment.
> My fear-mongering or what you claim that to be, is a well-founded and
> understood fear of the future just as anyone would worry about getting
> his meals everyday.
That's right. It's just the grasping for nutriment. So give it up already.
Practice makes perfect.
> It's just avoiding being left in one's next life without having done
> one's utmost to protect the Dharma from decadence which indeed, is an
> important part of the Buddha's Dharma and an important part of the
> Bodhicitta vow towards all beings.
Maybe it would be useful for you to review those vows right now.
>Ad hominem attacks without any basis in the real issue of the posts are a thing
>that this ng has given up a few years ago and the new-comers like you have not
>laundered in. This ng has gone on to other things, Namdrol,
Who's Namdrol? My name is in the headers and I haven't used an online
pseudonym since the early 1990's.
> when you were here three years ago is over and out on the garbage heap as of
> now. This ng has now actually been taken over by forces that you don't
> understand. Give up your weapons and come nicely now. Lower your head to get
> into the car. It's all over now. I never saw you again after the invasion of
> Afganistan, Moron of the Quadrimillenium.
> Or was it "Dickhead" ? If you weren't so vociferous....you could be more civil
Have you ever heard the expression, 'paranoia will destroy ya?'
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.1000dinners.com/>
Think this of the fleeting world:
a star at dawn, a bubble in a stream.
GeirSmith
>Tantrism is not lost.
>snipped because of length>
The Gyu De Kun Tus must be given because of the disappearing of it's last
holder in the near future. What do you have to say ? Karmapa I and II want to
get this to block the prophecy oof the disappearing of their sect unless they
get it back along with it's Marpa Tantras. You can be happy and leave them to
their own devises. Everyone os free you know, including the Karmapas and you
have no hold on what they are allowed or should be told to do.People are free
to practise what they want and you should practise rather than bother about
what other people do. Your teachers seem to be from... where did you say ?
If there's something you have to say about this do so or go in peace and feel
in harmony with beings, eh ! I don't think the Tantras will be hindered from
being saved by you. All Tibetan lamas consider them to be the highest teachings
and they wouldn't be too happy to hear about whoever you are being trying to
quell it. The only other lama with the lineage Chogye Trichen gave up giving it
to Karmapa I (Urgyen Trinley) because of old age (given to begin with at
Plazac, - Tendar Ling - France). You're talking to me about preventing the
other holder from giving it and the total Tantric lineages collection from
being passed on with it's many otherwise extinct traditions. Are you mad ? Are
you some arch-enemy of the Buddha-Dharma ? Where' the beef ? You flabbergast
me truely. I didn't think people like you could exist, truely.
Bev Thornton
> The Gyu De Kun Tus must be given because of the disappearing of it's last
> holder in the near future. What do you have to say ?
The current lineage holders must make provision for initiating more or at
least another Vajra Master, to preserve it through a regency or to plant
terma. Or all three.
> Karmapa I and II want to
> get this to block the prophecy oof the disappearing of their sect unless they
> get it back along with it's Marpa Tantras. You can be happy and leave them to
> their own devises.
That's right. I have my own practice to do. Everyone has their part in the
mandala.
> Everyone os free you know, including the Karmapas and you
> have no hold on what they are allowed or should be told to do.
That's right too. There isn't much that I could do for them anyway other
than attend teachings, make offerings and dedicate practice.
> People are free
> to practise what they want and you should practise rather than bother about
> what other people do. Your teachers seem to be from... where did you say ?
Ganden tradition, Gelugpa. And Nyingma and Kagyu Rinpoches have helped me a
lot too. But I practice in the lineage of Lama Je Tsong Khapa. Most of the
people who have taught me are from Tibet, but one was born in India,
another in Nepal and the only one who is not Tibetan was born in Canada.
Do you want a list of names?
> If there's something you have to say about this do so or go in peace and feel
> in harmony with beings, eh ! I don't think the Tantras will be hindered from
> being saved by you.
That's right. That's why you need not worry about it, why you need not
worry others about it.
> All Tibetan lamas consider them to be the highest teachings
> and they wouldn't be too happy to hear about whoever you are being trying to
> quell it.
Oh, I don't know. If you mean this exchange we've been having in this
newsgroup I think some of them might think it's kind of funny. One would
probably tell me to get off the computer. Another would likely give me
some questions to ask.
> The only other lama with the lineage Chogye Trichen gave up giving it
> to Karmapa I (Urgyen Trinley) because of old age (given to begin with at
> Plazac, - Tendar Ling - France). You're talking to me about preventing the
> other holder from giving it and the total Tantric lineages collection from
> being passed on with it's many otherwise extinct traditions. Are you mad ? Are
> you some arch-enemy of the Buddha-Dharma ? Where' the beef ? You flabbergast
> me truely. I didn't think people like you could exist, truely.
No one is preventing any such thing or even writing about it for that
matter. You're seeing demons where there aren't any, where it isn't even
possible for them to exist, and then you write on and on, into this
newsgroup, with bizarre ravings about irrelevant religions and their
theistic beliefs. Occasionally, you've written some really strange things,
things that really misrepresent Buddhism, Kalachakra, Shambhala, Tantra;
like the odd thing you've written about women. Do you need to be reminded
of Niguma, Sukkasiddhi, Yeshe Tsogyal, Machig Labdron? or even Uppalavana,
Sujata and Khema? Some of the things you are writing are just coming out
of your own head and can give people very wrong ideas about Refuge.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://indiarenalfoundation.org/>
If you hold yourself dear then guard, guard yourself well.
GeirSmith
>Kalachakrapa
>>Without Tantras I don't think you're on any path. The Dalaļ-Lama claims
>http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
No time to post now but contact the Karmapas about what prospects there are for
their asking for the teaching quickly now before my guru Phende Kenchen dies.
It has to be organized really quickly without a second to spare; right now.
He's not the one to ask : he's the one giving it. He agrees to give it or not
and that 's for the disciples, the Karmapas to ask for. The omniscient guruis
not the one to organise anything : it's the disciples.
Here on ARBT, the people to ask this of the Karmapas are here ; they post to
Kagyu groups daily and actively. For that look at Evelyn Ruut, Norbu (crazy but
active), Schmetterling, Rebecca, Dar, etc....They can give clear indication of
the Karmapas intentions.
There's nothing uncertain or secret about this question, Phende Kenchen's bio
is for all to see and he clearly states that he has this lineage and that he is
alone or among the few that have it. In fact, he told me clearly that only
Chogye and him have it now. Chogye having given up giving it he's alone.
No, it's a good thing to contact the lamas, the Karmapas abouit this, because
this is vital to the future of the world; and giving the teachings has to be
organized, and indeed, there's no secret to hide from anyone. On the contrary,
Phende Kenchen's biography clearly says what teachings he possesses and thus
has to pass on, alone. His life is an open book as per his site, which I've
been posting for a long time here.
I want the lamas to organize the necessary proceedings because the balance of
the world's spirituality will be restored.
Bev Thornton
>>http://tinyurl.com/3l5c5 The Karmapa I link.
>>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
>
>No time to post now but contact the Karmapas about what prospects there are for
>their asking for the teaching quickly now before my guru Phende Kenchen dies.
>It has to be organized really quickly without a second to spare; right now.
Isn't that already being arranged? I was under the impression that both
Karmapas seek the complete Marpa tantras.
> He's not the one to ask : he's the one giving it. He agrees to give it or not
> and that 's for the disciples, the Karmapas to ask for. The omniscient guruis
> not the one to organise anything : it's the disciples.
Well, are they or are they not organizing the event?
How many students of His Eminence Phende Rinpoche do you suppose read here?
>Here on ARBT, the people to ask this of the Karmapas are here ; they post to
>Kagyu groups daily and actively. For that look at Evelyn Ruut, Norbu (crazy but
>active), Schmetterling, Rebecca, Dar, etc....They can give clear indication of
>the Karmapas intentions.
Does one of them work in the office or what? live with the guru? I don't
know, but I imagine most of the people who use this newsgroup are just
regular practitioners, go to a centre somewhere, attend what teachings and
retreats they can, initiations, and then just practice as best they can. I
don't think many of us have direct lines to the head lamas of the various
sects.
I think the gurus might be a little too busy to be bothered with pleadings
by people from a Usenet newsgroup, especially when it would be about
something that the gurus themselves know much more about, devoted
lifetimes of care.
>There's nothing uncertain or secret about this question, Phende Kenchen's bio
>is for all to see and he clearly states that he has this lineage and that he is
>alone or among the few that have it. In fact, he told me clearly that only
>Chogye and him have it now. Chogye having given up giving it he's alone.
Well then, you do it. Ask for the teaching. Volunteer to put the program
together, find a suitable place, whatever.
> No, it's a good thing to contact the lamas, the Karmapas abouit this, because
> this is vital to the future of the world; and giving the teachings has to be
> organized, and indeed, there's no secret to hide from anyone. On the contrary,
> Phende Kenchen's biography clearly says what teachings he possesses and thus
> has to pass on, alone. His life is an open book as per his site, which I've
> been posting for a long time here.
Yeah, but are you aware of the prophecy of their return to the Kagyu?
> I want the lamas to organize the necessary proceedings because the balance of
> the world's spirituality will be restored.
That will all happen, but it may not happen the way you imagine. You don't
need to get all worked-up about it, neither does anyone else.
You could make a nice little FAQ file and post it every two weeks. Then
people would be able to almost always see it and you would have a thread
to keep the conversation on it going.
--
bevth...@despammed.com Support: <http://www.ccisd.org/>
Whoever meditates with awareness obtains great joy.
GeirSmith
If the Karmapas ask for the teaching (so this explains the need to get our
in-house posters over at Kagyu groups to report about that) then the whole
Kagyu brass will want to be there as well as most of the rest of Tibetan
religious brass. A one thousand-seating temple is thus necessary. This is
beyond the capacity of the temples of Phende Kenchen that can muster about the
means to get a several hundred seating temple at best. He's the top guru for
lineage - but not for worldly attainment. He is a purely spiritual person, not
worldly. Not with big means and the organizatoin will have to come from the
Karmapas who alone can foot ihe bill for such size in organizing and financing.
It has to last a year seeing the massive text of the empowerment. It's the most
all-encompassing empowerment in Tibetan Buddhism and thus will draw from all
avenues of the religion.
Those who receive it must thereafter (so as to be qualified to bestow it in
turn,) recite the required amount of mantras of the deities in question and
thus allow for retreats of several years. Those who go into this process will
thus sacrify their remaining lives for the sake of saving tradition, going into
decades of retreat. In link # 2, Shamarpa says this to Karmapa Thaye Dorje :
http://tinyurl.com/3v6d9
"Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so you should do
a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the transmission to Kagyu
lamas."
To save these teachings requires many young lamas or practitionners sacrificing
the bigger part of their lives. If the required number of mantras have not been
recited for each of the hundreds of deities, their traditions are lost for lack
of being passed on, even if they have been received. Practising the
empowerments' sadhanas are a requirement. Tantric Buddhism is a displine and
the most difficult path of Buddhism. It requires students of extremely sharp
intelligences to understand the many contrary (but nevertheless existing)
meanings that it teaches. A teaching for one type of student will be bad for
another type of student. Black will be white for another.
Kalachakrapa
>http://tinyurl.com/4hjv7 The Karmapa II link
>http://tinyurl.com/5fkx6 Phende Kenchen site link
>http://tinyurl.com/5v3hm Photo of the temple and of my house
"Therefore, Shamar Rinpoche said to Karmapa, “You are young, so you should do
a retreat on each of these Tantras and later pass the transmission to Kagyu
lamas."
This teaching of Gyu De Kun Tus must this be received, done retreat on and then
passed on in time for all tb be swell.
The first step now to buy all the time we can is to quicky bestow it to the
masses. Only a massive bestowal will ensure things being done right. Indeed,
the more receive it, the better possiblity that they will be able to find,
among many, the candidates so as to A.carry out the long retreats B. bestow the
empowerments later themselves. Thus, if we have some losses along the way, we
can still manage with the ones we have left. A few may get sick or not be able
to bestow it later in life, so a comfort margin of people having received it is
needed; direly. One should not think in tightly calculated numbers but leave
some margin for error or uncertainty.
Now, the person to organize this empowerment quickly is me, because (far from
doing any ego thing) I'm the most senior disciple of Phende Kenchen and even if
the material side of things is not my cup of tea, still, I'm the one to take
care of the various aspects of things in the general sense. I'm the one who'll
have to take charge. Here, in France, although Phende Kenchen has been here for
decades, I'm the only one who has followed him throughout. The others have
flaked out and not managed to organize a strong Sangha around him. No growth
here has completely emptied our temple of all energy. Phende Kenchen's
present-day strong Sangha is in Taipei, Taiwan. That's where we'll have to
organize this for the Tibetans and the Karmapas and all their disciples or
other people who want to go the long trudge through a one-year empowerment like
the Gyu De Kun Tus.
In Taipei, it'll have to be me organizing because no French speak English or
their English is not understandable by anyone, even less the Taiwanese who have
their own English language-problems and can't even dicipher what French
speakers say. Also, no French people or particularly those from our temple can
travel out to Taiwan and be operational. Being non-operatniional in France, how
could they do a thing in Taiwan. So, I'm the only one to do this. Now, in
Taiwan, there are a few disicoples that are extremely dynamic and enthusiastic.
They display great faith for the Dharma, even if they englobe Phende Kenchen
within the general faith without really seeing the difference between the
various lamas and their traditions.
Taiwan offers a lot of people to do all the oganizing work and in a very
enthusiastic spirit. I am the person to speak both in English with the educated
Taiwnese English-speakers who are often the high disciples that are
well-educated. Parallel to this, I am the only person who also speak to another
group of disicples in Taiwan who don't really speak much English but have
specialized in Tibetan and pursue studies in it. The top echelon of our Sangha
in Taiwan is thus easy to talk to for me while it's impossible for French
people that might go there. (pure speculation - no French have ever done
anything for my lama in all the years he's been there !)
Within the general organization of a new temple, that would require great
effort, it would have to be spearheaded by someone who is from outside, like
me, (being from our French temple and thus a bit removed from the life of our
temple Taiwanese there) for the simple reason furthermore, that Taiwan being
traditiaonal Buddhist, the temples there, obey to the hierarchy within it.
Very much like in a Chirtian chruch where everyone knows what their role and
place is and little squabbling for seats happens as in Western Buddhist
temples, where no one is ever really nominated to any post by anyone. Thus, the
whole system is based upon who has pecking priority. As I have the natural
priority of being Phende Kenchen oldest disicple, to get things revved up to
top gear quick, I have to intervene and geting things rolling with them out in
Taiwan will really be tough if someone tries without me. Good luck ! I know
what it's like. I'd also add that in both France or Taiwan, nothing can happen
because people are not able to move to organize things quickly. If a temple of
big size is to be set up now, I can do it because I'm ready and the idea is
mine to begin with.
Furthermore, most of what's been builtup in Taiwan making it presently the
richest per capita in the world, has been done cooperations with foreigners and
Amercians have particularly, who had mlitary basese there until not long ago.
I'm American so this is a well-trodden path for the Taiwanese and Americans,
used to trusting each othre and prospering together. A great many projects in
Taiwan in all fields, whether technological or architectural etc...are foreign
cooperations and Taiwan is totally Westernized in it's outer appearance. It is
the right prospect for our project.
The retreats of the Gyu De Kun Tus can also be organized there afterwards.