Dzogchen in Wales
Phillip Gardner
Wales area in the U.K. to practise Dzogchen as taught along the lines of
Sogyal Rinpoche or Lama Surya Das. These are two teachers i have read books
by recently and am inspired. I know there are many schools of thought within
the Tibetan traditions which makes it a bit confusing to a newcomer, but any
advise would be helpfull.
Mary Finnigan
to steer clear of Sogyal. However, you will find:
Aro gTer
Check with a search engine for their web site. It has an e-mail address
on it. They are based at Penarth.
The UK Dzogchen Community
Students of Choegyal Namkhai Norbu
There are several in Cardiff.
There's a web site too. If any problems finding it e-mail
ba...@coventry.demon.co.uk Barry should be able to put you in touch with
the Cardiff people.
If you feel like a spin up the M4, the Bristol and Somerset Dzogchen
Community does Yantra Yoga every Monday. E-mail Cheh Goh at
c...@hplb.hpl.hp.com for details.
Mary
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
Mary Finnigan wrote:
>
> Aro gTer
> Check with a search engine for their web site. It has an e-mail address
> on it. They are based at Penarth.
Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful.
--
Yours in Dharma,
Henry Chia
(Ngawang Geleg)
email: ge...@pacific.net.sg
URL: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/4886/index.htm
<-: Ngawang Geleg's Buddhist Home Page :->
URL: http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/geleg/cults.htm
<-: Buddhist Cults A - Z :->
URL: http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/geleg/index.htm
<-: My Music Page :->
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
"Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)" wrote:
>
> Mary Finnigan wrote:
> >
> > Aro gTer
> > Check with a search engine for their web site. It has an e-mail address
> > on it. They are based at Penarth.
>
> Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful.
Just to add some notes, check this out:
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/geleg/aro00.htm
LStev3234
>
Doubtful to who? The folks who are practicing it, or the folks who never heard
of it?
LStev3234
>Just to add some notes, check this out:
>http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/geleg/aro00.htm<
Ohmigod! I had forgotten that you folks are the self appointed dharma police.
You got a guy somewhere in a little office with the official title of "Dharma
Censor" or do you folks just go off the deep end on hate binges whenever
somebody disagrees with you? Kinda like the reincarnation of the inquisition.
Mary Finnigan
>
>
I wrote:
>>
>> Aro gTer
>> Check with a search engine for their web site. It has an e-mail address
>> on it. They are based at Penarth.
>
>Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful.
I don't give a flying **** whether this lineage exists or not. It does
exist actually, but what seems to get some people into a lather is
whether it's present holder has a right to describe himself thus or not.
Again, this seems to me to be irrelevant. Chogyam and Dechen have a
following of kind, sincere people around them. They practice diligently
and harm no-one. I regard your inclusion of them on your cult web site
as an example of blind prejudice.
Mary
RickFinney
wrote:
<< Chogyam and Dechen have a
following of kind, sincere people
around them. They practice diligently
and harm no-one.>>
To which I reply: hear, hear!
Controversies aside (and there are some),
these are two of the kindest and most
gifted teachers my wife and I have ever
encountered. Their writings are powerful
and clear, and reflect outstanding insight.
In addition to this, we have been privil-
eged to have had the benefit of private
correspondence with Chogyam and Dechen.
In the things they said, they were profound-
ly helpful and extended themselves far
beyond the call of duty, with no apparent
thought for empire-building or whether
they could "rope us in" as students.
We have met other Western "lamas," who
have been authorized by senior throne-
holders, who have proved to be self-
aggrandizing villains. This has led us
finally to believe that pedigree counts
for nothing, whereas deeds, kindness,
and personal genuineness do. Anyone who
really wants to know about Aro gTer
should look at their web site (www.aroter.
org) and form their own impressions.
- Rick Finney
RickFinney
>Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful. >>
Dear Henry,
You really ought to do more research before accusing an organization of being a
cult. Speaking as someone who was once a member of a corrupted Dharma community
in Poolesville, Maryland, I know first-hand the experience of being an
interested party and eventually a student in such a group.
After discovering the hidden side to the Maryland group, I left without
hesitation. I spent the next few years carefully examining several other Dharma
organizations. I learned about the Aroter from a friend. After some very
personal correspondence between myself and Ngakpa Chogyam and Khandro Dechen, I
can honestly say they are the kindest and most sincere Dharma teachers I have
spoken with.
I also had some correspondence with a senior student of theirs. She was very
helpful in advising me about my practice questions. During the nearly 12 years
I spent at the Poolesville center, I was never given any answers to my practice
questions. In fact, I was told by the lama there that "you'll get the teaching
when you have the Karma to get it." Meanwhile, we were all saddled with a daily
practice committment with no teachings about how to do the practice.
Chogyam and Khandro Dechen said that since Dharma is about kindness, there
should be no question in one's mind: if kindness is not present, there is no
Dharma.
Sincerely,
Chris Finney
LStev3234
okay.
Not as long as one has faith but continues to act like a bigot.
LStev3234
>Doubtful abt this lineage if it is REALLY recognised by the late Dilgo
>Khyentse Rinpoche.
So what? D. K. Rinpoche is DEAD. So you can't get him to do all your
thinking for you. When you gonna learn to think for yourself? Duh!
LStev3234
Nah, you write "this opinion" based on prejudice, self serving egotism, and
spiritual pride. Then you try to weasel out of recognizing your own shit by
claiming it's somebody elses opinion and you are just passing it on. Gutless
wonders are everywhere.
LStev3234
post this question to H.H. if time allows me.<
Quite right, Henry, do run to someone else to do your thinking for you. It's
way too much work to form your own opinion.
LStev3234
were not so, Dharma would be worthless.
LStev3234
I suppose one could define open mindedness as a type of prejudice. LOL!
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> Ohmigod! I had forgotten that you folks are the self appointed dharma police.
> You got a guy somewhere in a little office with the official title of "Dharma
> Censor" or do you folks just go off the deep end on hate binges whenever
> somebody disagrees with you? Kinda like the reincarnation of the inquisition.
I am no dharma police or self appointed dharma police. I will just speak
up my opinion if I feel that things are not right. Just share my views.
You have the rights to agree or to disagree with me.
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> >Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful.<
> >
>
> Doubtful to who? The folks who are practicing it, or the folks who never heard
> of it?
Doubtful abt this lineage if it is REALLY recognised by the late Dilgo
Khyentse Rinpoche.
--
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
Mary Finnigan wrote:
>
> I don't give a flying **** whether this lineage exists or not. It does
> exist actually, but what seems to get some people into a lather is
> whether it's present holder has a right to describe himself thus or not.
> Again, this seems to me to be irrelevant. Chogyam and Dechen have a
> following of kind, sincere people around them. They practice diligently
> and harm no-one. I regard your inclusion of them on your cult web site
> as an example of blind prejudice.
If they have faith with the Triple Gem, I hope that things are going
alright.
Just like the people who are following Lu of True Buddha School, if they
have faith with the Triple Gem, things should be okay.
I write this opinion based on Mind-Only School.
--
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
RickFinney wrote:
>
> Chogyam and Khandro Dechen said that since Dharma is about kindness, there
> should be no question in one's mind: if kindness is not present, there is no
> Dharma.
As I have said earlier on, if one have faith with Triple Gem, things
should be okay.
--
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> >As I have said earlier on, if one have faith with Triple Gem, things should be
> okay.
>
> Not as long as one has faith but continues to act like a bigot.
Actually, I have read a newspaper report that a dead-sentence prisoner
had several relics once he was cremated. He's a follower of Lu Sheng Yen
of True Buddha School.
What do you think?
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> So what? D. K. Rinpoche is DEAD. So you can't get him to do all your
> thinking for you. When you gonna learn to think for yourself? Duh!
Anyway, H.H. Penor Rinpoche, Pema Norbu, will be in town next mth. I
might post this question to H.H. if time allows me.
--
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> Nah, you write "this opinion" based on prejudice, self serving egotism, and
> spiritual pride. Then you try to weasel out of recognizing your own shit by
> claiming it's somebody elses opinion and you are just passing it on. Gutless
> wonders are everywhere.
Then, do you write your opinion based on your own prejudice?
--
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> >Anyway, H.H. Penor Rinpoche, Pema Norbu, will be in town next mth. I might
> >post this question to H.H. if time allows me.<
>
> Quite right, Henry, do run to someone else to do your thinking for you. It's
> way too much work to form your own opinion.
And since H.H. is the Supreme Head for all Nyingma schools, I think it's
better to consult H.H.. If there's any reply, I will tell you in private
mail. Too much controversy within the Tibetan Buddhism nowadays though.
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> I think it's great that even on death row one can become enlightened. If it
> were not so, Dharma would be worthless.
But how many followers of TBS attain such level? So, I put it in this
way. As long as he/she has faith with Triple Gem, things should be okay.
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
LStev3234 wrote:
>
> >Then, do you write your opinion based on your own prejudice?
>
> I suppose one could define open mindedness as a type of prejudice. LOL!
LOL... I suppose that everything involves with using your mind to think
and act, is also a type of prejudice. :)
Alex Wilding
LStev3234 wrote in message <19991122122149...@ng-fn1.aol.com>...
(FIrst quoting Henry:)
>>Doubtful abt this lineage if it is REALLY recognised by the late Dilgo
>>Khyentse Rinpoche.
> So what? D. K. Rinpoche is DEAD. So you can't get him to do all your
>thinking for you. When you gonna learn to think for yourself? Duh!
authority. Is it not the Aroter people who claim the authority of DKR? And
is not the problem that this appears perhaps to have been a lie?
Now if they were not claiming that sort of authority, but "just" claiming
visionary insight, they might have slightly fewer followers, but would be
healthier and there would be no problem.
Or do I misunderstand?
Alex W
Mary Finnigan
>If I understand it correctly, it is not Henry who is quoting DKR as an
>authority. Is it not the Aroter people who claim the authority of DKR? And
>is not the problem that this appears perhaps to have been a lie?
of interpretation. I know the circumstances and when I view them in the
light of other western claims in this area, I reserve judgement on what
constitutes recognition and what could be seen as affirmation,
acknowledgement or just a friendly gesture. Any or all of these are
possible, given the cultural misunderstandings that proliferate around
these matters.
>visionary insight, they might have slightly fewer followers, but would be
>healthier and there would be no problem.
purpose, modus operandi and ethical integrity appear to me to be based
in a sincere agenda.
Mary
Joe Tarnow
since
I've only read a few books and heard a few discussions on the subject. I
just feel it is useless
to aruge about who is right or wrong, who is a better teacher and the like.
From what
I've read it seems many of the writers have my-temple-is-bigger-than-yours
disease. I think you
could all do much more for the greatest good by discussing the problems of
this world and how
we all can make it a better place for everyone.
Joe Tarnow
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser - FREE -
RadioTibet
>the Tibetan traditions which makes it a bit confusing to a newcomer, but any
>advise would be helpfull.
Make your own descison about what lineage you should be with.
If you choose Dzogchen in Wales, then go.
Follow sane guidelines for connecting with a Lama and that is all you need.
dana
PS. any thoughts from the crowd?????
Christopher John Fynn
news:ObTOYHAG...@pema.demon.co.uk...
Mary Finnigan wrote:
> >> Aro gTer
> >> Check with a search engine for their web site. It has an e-mail
> >> address on it. They are based at Penarth.
Henry Chia wrote:
> >Mary, I find that the existence of this lineage seems to be doubtful.
Mary Finnigan replied:
> I don't give a flying **** whether this lineage exists or not. It does
> exist actually, but what seems to get some people into a lather is
> whether it's present holder has a right to describe himself thus or not.
> Again, this seems to me to be irrelevant. Chogyam and Dechen have a
> following of kind, sincere people around them. They practice diligently
> and harm no-one. I regard your inclusion of them on your cult web site
> as an example of blind prejudice.
> Mary
Come on now Mary you seem quite happy to be convinced (and try to
convince others) that some of the most respected and revered teachers
in Tibetan Buddhism guilty of hypocrisy, an abuse of trust or worse on
the basis of a few unsubstantiable allegations by western students.
On the other hand when Henry feels that there is convincing evidence
that the "Aro Ter" tradition is a fraud you call it "blind prejudice".
Why is it alright to spread certain kinds of unsubstantiated allegations
in this usenet group and on the web but not alright for Henry to publish
the fact that several of the lamas Ngakpa Chogyam claims as his teachers -
- and whose names and pictures NC uses to give credibility and authenticity
to what he is teaching - say that the Aro Ter tradition is not the genuine
article?
Ngakpa Chogyam may be harmless and have a following of kind sincere people
- but plenty of charlatans have appeared to be more or less harmless
(at least until something went wrong) and there have been many who had
followings of kind, sincere people around them. These things do not of
themselves prove that "Aro Ter" is or is not a fraud.
Ngakpa Chogyam and Dechen may be 100% sincere, they may be kind,
generous people and what they teach may even benefit people but is what
they teach what they claim that it is? This is a perfectly reasonable
question
to ask - if the supermarket sold cartons of orange juice and people found
they
contained water (or even apple juice) most people would be unhappy - even
though the water might quench their thirst.
Martin Boord who was Ngakpa Chogyam's first teacher, and his Tibetan
teachers like Chime Rigdzin Rinpoche (who NC says recognised him as
the rebirth of one "'a-Shul Pema Legden") and Ngagpa Yeshe Dorje have
said that they feel the "Aro Ter" tradition is false - and any other learned
Nyingma lama I've asked about it has said the same thing.
Why get yourself "into a lather" when Henry points this out?
- Chris
Christopher John Fynn
> Phillip Gardner writes
> >I am new to Tibetan Buddhism and am keen to join with others in the South
> >Wales area in the U.K. to practise Dzogchen as taught along the lines of
> >Sogyal Rinpoche or Lama Surya Das. These are two teachers i have read
books
> >by recently and am inspired. I know there are many schools of thought
within
> >the Tibetan traditions which makes it a bit confusing to a newcomer, but
any
> >advise would be helpfull.
> You won't find Surya Das students in S.Wales and I strongly advise you
> to steer clear of Sogyal. However, you will find:
> Aro gTer ...
Mary
Given your usual uncompromising attitude to charlatans, frauds and snake-oil
salesmen, I'm somewhat surprised to see you publicly suggesting "Aro gTer"
to someone who is new to Tibetan Buddhism without attaching a great big
CAVEAT EMPTOR.
As far as I can determine there is little evidence that "ARO gTÉR" and the
"Ngak'phang [sic] Tradition" is more than something dreamed up or imagined
by "Ngakpa Chogyam" himself.
In Tibetan "Aro" is an unusual name. The only Aro who is at all well known
in Tibetan religious history is Aro Yeshe Jungney (a ro ye shes 'byung gnas)
the teacher of rBa gom bSod rnams rGyal mtshan who was in turn the teacher
of the famous Kha rag sGom chung. This A-ro was so called because, as a
child, he was found by a nun laying like a corpse (ro) emitting the sound "A
A". She took care of him and called him "A-ro" ("corpse [saying] 'AA'" /
"corpse of AA"). This A-ro was the author of a text known as Aro's
Mahayana Yoga (a ro'i theg chen naljor) and of "Aro's Great System of
Guidance" (a ro'i khrid mo che don khor) which is also known as "The
Esoteric Instructions of the Great Perfection according to Aro" (rdzogs chen
a ro'i man ngag), "The Essential Spirituality of Aro" (a ro' thugs bcud) or
"The Seven Sessions of Aro" (a ro thun bdun). It is a system of the mental
class of Dzogchen (rdzogs chen sems sde) known as the tradition of Khams.
Aro Yeshe Jungney held both the Chinese and Indian traditions of the Mental
Class of Dzogchen during the seventh generation of their transmission.
Although Atisha himself praised the oral instructions of Aro Yeshe Jungney,
they were later attacked by many including Je Tsongkhapa's disciple
Keydrubje.
You might recall that a couple of years ago I asked one of Ngakpa Chogyam's
students if their "tradition" had anything to do with that of Aro Yeshe
Jungney and I was told that it didn't. Curiously since then
they have added something about Aro Yeshe Jungney to their web-site which
seems to be based on what I wrote at the time. This and a few similar things
give me the impression that they are making things up or filling in the gaps
as they go along.
I also asked where the Aro Ter and it's terton were prophesised and
authorised by Padmasambhava or Yeshe Tsogyal - since this is usually
considered to be one of the important ways of determining the authenticity
of a terton and terma - but I was given an answer to the effect that since
this is a "mind terma" there is no prophecy etc.
Somehow I wasn't surprised by that answer nor am I surprised that there are
no facts which might be easily checked in the History of the A-ro gTer
lineage as given at http://www.aroter.org/history/history_toc.htm. I'm
thinking about things like the full name of the terma, the title of the
texts, any references to this terma or tradition in other texts or
biographies etc; the names of places associated with "Jomo Chhi-'mčd
Pema", "Gomchenma Pema 'ö-Zér", " Rang-rig Togden",
"Khyungchen Aro Lingma", "'a-Shul Pema Legden", "Khalding Lingpa",
"Ngak'chang A-Kyong Dudül Dorje"
and the other characters associated with this lineage (no body else seems
to have heard of any of these figures).
Maybe I'm wrong or overly cynical, but to me this whole thing looks like the
product of a fertile imagination and might be rather good fun if it was only
supposed to be a humorous work of fiction or a parody about Tibetan yogis.
Asking people to take it seriously just seems to be taking advantage of and
reinforcing some of the Shangri-la fantasies many people have about Tibet.
- Chris
Mary Finnigan
I replied to your comments about Chogyam and Dechen privately and I
don't have much to add to it here. Not possible for me to defend them
any more than I have done so far. Have you met and talked with Chogyam
recently? Have you read his books? Or is your critique based on second
hand information from people who already have an agenda? And dear Chris,
I really do feel hurt at your use of the word *unsubstantiated*. I find
myself back on the cracked record here ...never done this... always have
more than one source... always check.
Mary
Tim Knutton
John Pettit
Tim Knutton wrote:
>
> How about this guy?
> http://www.khepa.com/
They've had a major face-lift at the site since I last saw it -- and
much needed. The first time I went there, I saw a picture of "Khepa" --
smeared with ashes, a huge potbelly, staring wildly into space. Sort of
a cross between Nityananda, Da Free John and a drenched campfire.
I loved this part:
> Sanctimonious authority is the rigormortis of lineage. Fawning disciples
> kissing ass are the maggots of lineage. Hope and fear are the dusty
> bleached bone remains of lineage. Always be careful about the quality of
> lineage!
Evidently the words of someone who didn't feel like kissing ass in order
to become a Guru.
John
Louis
against Kalu Rinpoche.
Mary wants us to believe in Nicky Skye, the pen-name of an in-truth-
anonymous serial victim of abuse.
Mary wants us to believe that the so-called Aro gTer lineage "does
actually exist" in spite of the evidence to the contrary.
A little over a year ago, when Shannon Schroeder posted the old
"Richard Gere and a baby gerbil" rumour, and Ross Nelson answered "No.
It's just another rumor", it was the same Mary who jumped in to tell us
" The RG story is not a rumour...it has been authenticated by several
people..."
Not terrific as a track record, is it?
LM
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mary Finnigan
>Mary wants us to believe June Campbell's unsubstantiated allegation
>against Kalu Rinpoche.
>Mary wants us to believe in Nicky Skye, the pen-name of an in-truth-
>anonymous serial victim of abuse.
>Mary wants us to believe that the so-called Aro gTer lineage "does
>actually exist" in spite of the evidence to the contrary.
>A little over a year ago, when Shannon Schroeder posted the old
>"Richard Gere and a baby gerbil" rumour, and Ross Nelson answered "No.
>It's just another rumor", it was the same Mary who jumped in to tell us
>" The RG story is not a rumour...it has been authenticated by several
>people..."
assiduous attention. I also wonder why you do this? And I should tell
you that I don't *want* you to believe anything. Along with everyone
else here, I say what I believe. Nada mas.
Mary
Alex Wilding
Or there is this one:
http://www.celticbuddhism.org/
Maybe we should start a collection?
Alex W
Tim Knutton
Alex Wilding wrote:
Right! I've seen that one, what a hoot! Ever seen that advert in the
Shambhala Sun for the vibrating pendants? Made by another "western
terton"!
How about Karma blah-blah Rinpoche? Long Hair, goatee and red robes, i
can't remember his full name. Foundation for Dzogchen Studies or
something like that.
Tim Knutton
Alex Wilding
Tim Knutton wrote in message <3843FDE4...@unamax.com>...I addedTim again:
>Right! I've seen that one, what a hoot! Ever seen that advert in the
>Shambhala Sun for the vibrating pendants? Made by another "western
>terton"!
site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
for having been taken in!
The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
"Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
Alex W
Tim Knutton
> It was only when JP pointed it out to me that I realised that the Celtic
> site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
> for having been taken in!
> The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
> actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
> stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
> "Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
> Alex W
I've been watching Khepa's page for a while now, he used to claim not have any
human teachers. As the story goes, he was in a public library when Yeshe Tsogyal
apeared to him, bigger than life. He fell to his knees and then drank wisdom
nectar from her 'lotus'. This awoke memories of his past life as a wandering
yogi in Tibet and he then revealed his 'termas'. He also says that he sends his
students to other Dzogchen Masters in California such as Chagdud Rinpoche and
Lama Tharchin.This is more or less how i remember it. He doesn't have that stuff
posted on his site anymore. I'm going to look for the other guy's page i
mentioned, i'll keep you posted.
I never realized western tertons could be so much fun.
Tim Knutton
Mary Finnigan
>It was only when JP pointed it out to me that I realised that the Celtic
>site is almost certainly a spoof. Slow of me, but I enjoyed the joke more
>for having been taken in!
>The funny thing about Khepa is that for all he talks about lineage, he never
>actually seems to give a mention to any of his teachers! (Though I didn't
>stay long at the site - maybe it is somewhere.) The mention of the
>"Ngak'phang style" makes it look like an Aro gTer spin-off.
Aroter and yes, Khepa is associated. I gather that the connection is
friendly but not close.
Mary
Tim Knutton
> How about Karma blah-blah Rinpoche? Long Hair, goatee and red robes, i
> can't remember his full name. Foundation for Dzogchen Studies or
> something like that.
>
> Tim Knutton
Ok, here's the site for 'Lama Padma Karma Rinpoche'
http://pages.cthome.net/tibetanbuddhism/
It seems less ornate and exotic than it once was.
Tim Knutton
Henry Chia (Ngawang Geleg)
Tim Knutton wrote:
>
> I've been watching Khepa's page for a while now, he used to claim not have any
> human teachers. As the story goes, he was in a public library when Yeshe Tsogyal
> apeared to him, bigger than life. He fell to his knees and then drank wisdom
> nectar from her 'lotus'. This awoke memories of his past life as a wandering
> yogi in Tibet and he then revealed his 'termas'. He also says that he sends his
> students to other Dzogchen Masters in California such as Chagdud Rinpoche and
> Lama Tharchin.This is more or less how i remember it. He doesn't have that stuff
> posted on his site anymore. I'm going to look for the other guy's page i
> mentioned, i'll keep you posted.
> I never realized western tertons could be so much fun.
Remind me of Lu Shen Yen of True Buddha School.
Care to give me a list of such persons whose lineage's existence seems
to be very doubtful?
Steven Lightfoot
wrote:
I don't know the web address but there was, for a day at least, a
suspecious Dorji Porji who claims to have been a practicing Tibetan
Buddhist for 20 years who think exactly like DT trying to convince
others of his authenticity.
As a matter of fact, on a number of occassions DT himself has claimed
that he has been practicing Insight Meditation and Buddhist meditation
for decades. I think he should go on the *falsie* list as well.
>
Christopher John Fynn
Alex Wilding <wil...@eircom.net> wrote
in message news:820f9d$edn$1...@scotty.tinet.ie...
> Or there is this one:
> http://www.celticbuddhism.org/
Wow - you need sunglasses to look at this guys' robes.
LStev3234
struck by the following:
The one Aro gTer person I visited was quite self impressed with her "sacred"
and therfore "untouchable" relics. I was offered the opportunity to see a
small book containing pic's and various writings concerning the Aro gTer folks,
the page was turned to a specific picture of R and his wife, and when I got
bored with the picture and started to leaf through the other pages the book was
immediately grabbed from my hands with the comment "you can't see that." Was I
going to go to Vajra Hell if I peeked without permission? I didn't ask, in
order to be polite. When inquiring about dancing (lama dancing to the
uninformed) I was told that they weren't "allowed" to learn any more dances as
R. had instructed them to make all their costumes first. I fail to see why a
custume is necesary to express one's spirituality but again I was silent as it
would have served no purpose to ask a question which would have been seen as
offensive. Needless to say, my visit was mercifully short.
I have no idea what R is actually teaching. I just know he has at least one
neurotic student. So what? Every teacher has neurotic students. Every teacher
has his or her own neurosis to deal with in the process of becoming/being a
teacher. Caveot Emptor.
After leaving Glastonbury (home of a few thousand new age/spiritualy
enlightened/crystal weilding/guru channelling nutcases from hell) I traveled to
Edinburgh where I saw (among other things) the famous Scottish Crown Jewels.
Gad, what a miserable collection of metal and rocks, notwithstanding the fact
that many folks were killed in order to possess or not possess them, for
whatever reasons. And it is still a big deal for the Scots to have their crown
jewels which were carefully hidden away from the other owners of other crown
jewels. It reminded me of the person I had visited in Wales and I didn't see
any difference between her untouchable relics and the glass-encased,
religiously guarded toys in the Castle at Edinburgh.
It seems inevitable that adults will again revisit the stages of a two year old
in the process of exploring spiritual practices, including the idea of "mine"
and "not yours" and all that stuff. Of course there is a great deal of
suffering generated when they find out that their projections of spirituality
and specialness are nothing but ego trips and don't mean a hill of beans to
anyone else but them. But we have to go through it, as experience is the best
(and often only) teacher. There is a lot of suffering generated with the idea
of specialness, inner and outer.
LStev3234
Cool site. Crazy wisdom and good medicine all for the click of a mouse.
Tang Huyen
LStev3234 wrote: <<It seems inevitable that adults will again revisit the stages of
a two year old in the process of exploring spiritual practices, including the idea
of "mine" and "not yours" and all that stuff. Of course there is a great deal of
suffering generated when they find out that their projections of spirituality and
specialness are nothing but ego trips and don't mean a hill of beans to anyone else
but them. But we have to go through it, as experience is the best (and often only)
teacher. There is a lot of suffering generated with the idea of specialness, inner
and outer.>>
Heaven forbid! You mean that *my* guru is not the best guru in the world? Even the
*only* guru in the world? And that not *all* redemption must be mediated by him?
How cruel can you be? What kind of Buddhist are you?
Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut
LStev3234 <lste...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991203081106...@ng-cf1.aol.com...
> Having just returned from a trip to Wales and other parts of the UK
Welcome back Linda!
Evelyn
LStev3234
>Heaven forbid! You mean that *my* guru is not the best guru in the world? Even
the *only* guru in the world? And that not *all* redemption must be mediated by
him?
How cruel can you be? What kind of Buddhist are you?<
The kind the gurus don't like.
Tang Huyen
LStev3234 wrote:
Tang: <<Heaven forbid! You mean that *my* guru is not the best guru in the world?
Even the *only* guru in the world? And that not *all* redemption must be mediated
by him?
How cruel can you be? What kind of Buddhist are you?>>
Linda: <<The kind the gurus don't like.>>
What? You want to take away my sole title to fame?
Tang Huyen
LStev3234
Not to worry, you can be a legend in your own mind.
Tang Huyen
LStev3234 wrote:
Tang: <<What? You want to take away my sole title to fame?>>
Linda: <<Not to worry, you can be a legend in your own mind.>>
Excellent! I can wallow in my own mud!
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
LStev3234 wrote:
Tang: <<Excellent! I can wallow in my own mud!>>
Linda: <<Oink!>>
Two pigs are merrier than one in the mud.
Tang Huyen
LStev3234
Pardon me, sir, but this is my mud pond and you will have to find your own mud
pond as this one is sacred and you haven't been properly empowered by the head
piggie. Besides, we are spotted and you don't have spots, so obviously you
aren't wearing the right skin. Kindly change your spots or at least cover them
with another unspotted skin prior to requesting wallowing rights.
Mary Finnigan
Linda makes my day......
Eat you heart out George Orwell.
Mary
LStev3234
>Eat you heart out George Orwell.
The big O is definately the Grand Poobah of barnyard antics.