Did Nichiren advocate Obutsu Myogo?
Christopher H. Holte
<a href="http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/books-frame.html">
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/books-frame.html</a> which has some
interesting articals in adobe (PDF) format. I'll post parts of them,
but in order to copy PDF files I either need to buy the full version or
convert them to another format. They have embedded Japanese Graphics
so I can't simply "cut and paste" to share them. The artical by Sueki
Fumihiko is particularly interesting because it is a balanced
discussion of the issue of validation of Nichiren's Gosho, the Hongaku
Issue, the Sandai Hiho Sho, and the letters to Sairenbo. I am
particularly fond of the Gosho written to Sairenbo and the Sandai Hiho
Sho, so his discusson is fascinating.
I'll try to summarize him a little:
The first published collection of Gosho was only 100 years after the
Daishonin's death and was known as the "Rokunai Gosho"(catalogued
writings). It was followed around 100-200 years later by the "Rokuge
Gosho" (uncatalogued writings). Nichiren sent his writings to his many
followers, and those writings ended up in the hands of people who
didn't always agree with one another. Allegations of forgery have
abounded at least since the Tokugawa period, as many of Nichiren's
writings seemed to contradict one another. The author of this article
first divides Nichiren's works into categories. Category a consists of
works with "autographs" (Handwriting can be verified and certified) and
works that are so obviously genuine that they don't contradict anyones
idea of what Nichiren said). Category A includes genuine Gosho where
Nichiren contradicts his own writings. This is assumed to be because he
grew as a teacher and taught differently at different times. Category
B includes documents where people disagree on the authenticity.
Category C includes those works that were written not by Nichiren
himself but by his later followers. <my note-- I'd have asked him about
altered originals, where part of a work is original but where glosses
or additions to the original might have been added>. Fumihiko discuses
the issue of "Hongaku works" in this light. He notes that one of the
first serious attempt at a scientific appraisal of Nichiren's writings
was by Asai Yorin, who categorically dismissed any text which contained
"Hongaku" ideas. Fumahiko notes that this categorical approach may not
be applicable in rejecting works as forgeries. He notes that the Sandai
Hiho Sho was examined by one Ito Zuiei in 1997 using a computerized
statistical analysis (probably compared it to other Gosho), and he
concluded that it was genuine. He notes that simply because a Gosho
contains text that is problematical to the examiner doesn't mean it is
in fact a forgery. He notes that before critical studies were began
there were many Gosho in the Showa Teihon that belonged to Category B,
and that better studies will not eliminate but only change the contents
of those contained in Category B.
The Sandai Hiho Sho was written and sent to Ota Kingo in 1281 (1 year
before Nichiren Died). It exists in a copy made by Nisshin in 1442.
(161 years after written). The original is gone.
"The full title of the Sandai hihõ shõ is Sandai hihõ honjõ ji,
or “Treatise on the transmission of the three great secret
Dharmas.” The three great secret Dharmas are the honzon û¨
(principal o ject of wor-ship), daimoku Û‡ (title of the Lotus
Sðtra), and kaidan w; (ordina-tion platform) revealed in honmon û– (the
“original gate,” that is, the latter half of the Lotus Sðtra). The
colophon says that it was written to Õta Kingo Ø,D7 , an earnest
lay adherent of Nichiren, on the eighth day of the fourth
month of the fourth year of Kõan (1281).
This was the year efore Nichiren’s death, when he was sixty years old.
It is extant as an old manuscript copy made y Nisshin ÕV in 1442.
The Sandai hihõ shõ consists of six questions and answers. The ³rst
question concerns the essential point of the Jinriki-bon Pjõ (chapter
on supernatural powers) of the Lotus Sðtra. The answer is
that it is nothing but the honzon, daimoku, and kaidan taught
in the Juryõ-bon 3gõ (chapter on fathoming the Tath„gata’s
lifespan), which had not been revealed even in shakumon )– (the
“gate of traces,” that is, the first half of the Lotus Sðtra), much
less in other sutras. The Bud-dha did not deliver them even to great
bodhisattvas such as Fugen or Monju but instead summoned Jogyo and his
other three companion bodhisattvas and taught the three Dharmas to
them. These 4 Bodhisattvas are teh leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the
Earth... The Buddha who taught them was not the mortal Buddha but the
Buddha who possesses the "originally existing and unproduced three
bodies (honmon musa no sanjin) and dwells in the originally existing
land of tranquil light. The second question asks when the teaching of
the three great Dharmas will spread, and the answer is Mappo, when the
white Dharma will perish and people will do nothing but fight. (hmm).
The third question is whether the Buddha's mercy is not partial, and
the answer is that Only the Juryo Chapter can save people during the
final Dharma age. The fourth question asks for proof and supplies the
answer. The fifth question then asks for a clarification of the three
great secret Dharmas and the answer explains them in sequence.
The author states that the Honzon should be Shakyamuni Buddha Lord of
the teachings who exists originally and possesses the unproduced three
bodies and has had an intimate relationship with this world for
countless kalpas. The Daimoku is different too. In the previous age it
as practice in terms of principle, in the later age it is practice for
oneself and others, with the 5 characters of MyohoRenge Kyo
corresponding to the 5 profound meanings of the Lotus Sutra set forth
by Chi'hi: Name, essence, gist, function and teaching. He then
explains the ordination platform.
"The kaidan will be established when the dharma of the ruler
(õbõ ÷À ) ecomes one with the Dharma of the Buddha
(buppõ [À ), when the Buddha Dharma is united with the
dharma of the ruler, and the ruler and his vassals all maintain
the three great secret Dharmas of honmon, so that the relation-ship
existing between King Utoku À” and Monk Kakutoku·” in the past
is transplanted to the future in this impure and evil Final
Dharma age. At that time, the ruler should issue a command to seek
out the most superlative site, resembling the Pure Land of
Eagle Peak, and there esta lish the ordina-tion platform. We should
await the appropriate time. This [ordination platform] will be the
[esta lishment of] the dharma of the precepts in actuality (ji ª ).…
After this dharma of the precepts has been established, the
ordination platform at Enryaku-ji ×”± [on Mt. Hiei] will become
useless, because it pertains only to the precepts in terms of
principle (rikai 7w )of shakumon. (STN 2: 1864–65)4"
Here the text clearly asserts the unity of the rulers dharma and the
Buddhas Dharma, or the unity of religion and politics.
Sueko Fumihiko goes on to evaluate Nichiren's political ideas. But
this is enough for today.
________
The Sandai Hiho Sho has been published in various Nichiren Shoshu and
Gakkai publications over the years, but I couldn't find it in the Major
Writings. If I could I would post it's entire text as translated by the
Gakkai.
-
<a href="http://www.gosho.net/">Read the Gosho for yourself!</a><br>
<a href= "http://www.geocities.com/athens/ithaca/9011/">
Christopher H. Holte</a>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte <> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
"The kaidan will be established when the dharma of the ruler
> (õbõ ÷À ) ecomes one with the Dharma of the Buddha
> (buppõ [À ), when the Buddha Dharma is united with the
> dharma of the ruler, and the ruler and his vassals all maintain
> the three great secret Dharmas of honmon, so that the relation-ship
> existing between King Utoku À" and Monk Kakutoku·" in the past
> is transplanted to the future in this impure and evil Final
> Dharma age. At that time, the ruler should issue a command to seek
> out the most superlative site, resembling the Pure Land of
> Eagle Peak, and there esta lish the ordina-tion platform. We should
> await the appropriate time. This [ordination platform] will be the
> After this dharma of the precepts has been established, the
> ordination platform at Enryaku-ji ×"± [on Mt. Hiei] will become
> useless, because it pertains only to the precepts in terms of
>
> Here the text clearly asserts the unity of the rulers dharma and the
> Buddhas Dharma, or the unity of religion and politics.
Reread what you have posted, Chris. As Japan and most countries nowadays are
ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people are all
chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be built and we
only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the Komeito Party or
the unity of religion and politics.
Stop being an apologist for a lay organization without a religion.
Cody
Jim Cub 3D
>
>http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/books-frame.html which has some
>interesting articals in adobe (PDF) format. I'll post parts of them,
Wow, Chris, great stuff. Can't wait for the rest. Thanks.
Jim
Visit <bekkoame.or.jp/~bone>
Visit <homestead.com/justicevictory
Cult Watcher International
>
>http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/books-frame.html which has some
>interesting articals in adobe (PDF) format. I'll post parts of them,
>>>Wow, Chris, great stuff. Can't wait for the rest. Thanks.
Jim<<<<
Yeah- amoung all the zen stuff I love the publication they advertise called:
Absolute Nothingness
FOUNDATIONS FOR A BUDDHIST-CHRISTIAN DIALOGUE
SGI should sell copies in their bookstores.
visit http://www.homestead.com/victoryjustice/
"To Dr. Yoshiro Tamura, associate professor of Toyo University, the "true nature" of
Soka Gakkai is "fanatic and dangerous." He says Soka Gakkai "makes politics
dependent upon religion as long as that religion is Soka Gakkai . . . and will eventually
act against freedom of religion."
LOOK Magazine, Sept. 1963
http://www.cebunet.com/sgi/memo.htm
"In order to destroy the overseas strategies of the Nikkensect, I want to
make a suggestion to all the representatives that we start a special SGI
campaign against the Nikkensect starting today to last until the end of
the Tozan of 100,000 people."
Sensei sent Mr Kitano to Ghana with these words: "When you start to fight
evil, you have to continue to the end. You cannot stop halfway. Fight
with all your strength, with all your might and use All means for that
fight"
"the daimoku campaign to close the temples in the US is NOT a freedom of religion issue..
I'll chant for the temples to close and for the sad people like your self to find wisdom to
cure your blindness."
Joe Stevens SGI-USA
"It's very important to "Nichiren" Shoshu that this 1o billion daimoku campaign
be about "closing temples". In fact, no one can tell anyone else what to chant
for; some are chanting to close temples.."
Jim Celer, SGI-USA Bureau Chief
"Those SGI-USA members who are chanting for the temples to close
are chanting just for that -- for the temples in the US to close."
Kathy Ruby
"I don't think if temples close it is a "bad thing"
Craig Ellis, SGI-USA
http://www.cebunet.com/sgi/distortion.htm
http://www.cebunet.com/sgi/memo.htm
"Currently, there are four Priests travelling in Europe, some on their way
to Ghana and others visiting the Danto members to hand out Gohonzons.
It would play right into the hands of Nikken if we allowed the building of
a Temple in Germany or in a German speaking country. We must, at all
costs, prevent that happening by utilising our combined strength.
Again: Somebody goes over to Danto and starts a point, but we do nothing.
A line or Danto group starts and we do nothing. It then increases-
regional, registered by law - and if we still do nothing then a Temple
will be built.
Sensei says: "If you challenge evil, then you must decide the time and
the place to destroy evil".
Basically: Choose the 'place' while it is still relatively small, and
this applies equally to the 'time', ie the time to attack is Now."
Initially and especially we should be "pro-active", in other words, be
informed of all the movements of the Nikkensect and apply a practical
system of "counter-action". As you have already been informed, the SGI
Strategy Dept. has been founded at the SGI-Head Office. In the past, the
movements of the Nikkensect have been carefully monitored outside of Japan
and in conjunction with the Bureau of the European Continent, counter-
activities were instigated. Moreover, the Strategic Department has been
provided to strengthen this system.In several countries in which seminars
about the Nikkensect were held, and guidance relevant to this was given,
camapigns to win the members back were carried out. In addition, measures
were taken against the Priests and Danto organisations."
we should establish a fighting spirit throughout the entire SGI
organisation. There have been various activities led by the Strategy
Dept. such as the campaign to win back members. As to the fight against
the Nikkensect, the members in the front line - especially in the Women's
Division - are aware of important information, ie the movements of the
sect and their methods of convincing people. But, if we don't have a
fighting spirit that is strong enough, this information will not reach
those responsible on the next highest level. Or, they receive the
information but neglect to pass it on to the next highest level of
responsibility.
MarcInMD
Daishonin's death and was known as the "Rokunai Gosho"(catalogued
writings). <<<
Just quick note. The Rokunai was naively thought to be a dependable list of
Nichiren's writings for many years. Unfortunatley the Rokunai has changed
several times and has appeared with a different list of writings three times,
the last version in 1833.
The truth about authenticity has been gotten to, thankfully, in this century.
The scholarship of people like Yorin Asai, Shigo Kaisho and Tamura Yoshiro have
sperated once and for all Nichiren's writings from forgery.
MarcInMD
"Hongaku" ideas. Fumahiko notes that this categorical approach may not
be applicable in rejecting works as forgeries.<<<
What I dont see mentioned is that Asai's main endevour was that he found many
of the forged Hongaku texts were straight rip offs of earlier Tendai texts.
They would read line by line exactly the same as some earlier known Tendai
tract with the occasional reference to chanting Daimoku wedged it. He also
found that there were absolutely no Hongaku texts that had an autograph and no
Hongaku texts that had an early mention or reference by relieable sources ( ie
Nikko). It is also clear that when you compare Hongaku preaching in the forged
texts to Nichiren's authenticated texts the ideas themselves are different.
One can safely dismiss any text attributed to Nichiren that uses exagerated
Hongaku imagry . These are mere copies of early Tendai tracts in many cases and
no one has yet to come up with an original signature on any of these. Nichiren
was not likely a plagerizer of the proportion needed to validate these texts
and if he was, then Nichren himself is invalidated as an honest person and
Bruce Maltz may indeed be his re-incarnation.
Mr T
<yida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > As Japan and most countries nowadays are
> > ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people are all
> > chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be built and we
> > only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the Komeito Party
> or
> > the unity of religion and politics.
> >
> > Cody
>
> hehe, yeah right. and all federales are nice guys.
> the biggest of them all is usa(big in mouth and big in bag) and they arent
> even a democracy, as some people wants to believe...
But compared to some of the social anarchy and corruption in government we
see around the globe today, I'll take the US any day, thank you.
--
Kurt
anti-spam measure:
to reply send to: martman at primenet dot com
Yidaki
> ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people are all
> chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be built and we
> only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the Komeito Party
> the unity of religion and politics.
>
Cody in Spain
Yidaki <escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> > As Japan and most countries nowadays are
> > ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people are all
> > chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be built and
we
> > only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the Komeito
Party
> > the unity of religion and politics.
> >
>
> hehe, yeah right. and all federales are nice guys.
> the biggest of them all is usa(big in mouth and big in bag) and they arent
> even a democracy, as some people wants to believe...
How long did it take you to figure that out, dude?
Sooooooo, kosen rufu isn't here yet. What are YOU doing about it?
LOL
Cody
Bo D. Satva
>hehe, yeah right. and all federales are nice guys.
>the biggest of them all is usa(big in mouth and big in bag) and they arent
>even a democracy, as some people wants to believe...
>
>
Are you paranoid, or are you trying to tell us that it is a republic form of
democracy.
-Patrick
To reply remove ths SGI
"Those who declare themselves to be my desciples must never be cowardly."
--Nichiren Daishonin
Take a mortal man
put him in control
watch him become a God
--from Symphony of Destruction by Megadeth
Christopher H. Holte
that in a modern age it is the people who should decide when the
Ordination platform should be built and not the Emperor. But of course
that was over-ruled by your current High Priest. I found the interest
of the article in 3 issues, The debate over authenticity of the Dharma
contained in a text, the debate over the authority of texts of Gosho,
and the debate over the meaning of the information within texts of
Gosho. I was quoting and summarizing an article, not in adding my own
opinions (except for a few small comments). My usual way is to post
the original and then add text later. Sometimes that derails, but as
you can see the original sparks enough controversy on it's own.
In article <938690902.129269@cache1>,
"Cody in Spain" <i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
>
> Christopher H. Holte <> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> "The kaidan will be established when the dharma of the ruler
> > (õbõ ÷À ) ecomes one with the Dharma of the Buddha
> > (buppõ [À ), when the Buddha Dharma is united with the
> > dharma of the ruler, and the ruler and his vassals all maintain
> > the three great secret Dharmas of honmon, so that the relation-ship
> > existing between King Utoku À" and Monk Kakutoku·" in the
past
> > is transplanted to the future in this impure and evil Final
> > Dharma age. At that time, the ruler should issue a command to seek
> > out the most superlative site, resembling the Pure Land of
> > Eagle Peak, and there esta lish the ordina-tion platform. We
should
> > await the appropriate time. This [ordination platform] will be
the
> > [esta lishment of] the dharma of the precepts in actuality (ji ª )..
> > After this dharma of the precepts has been established, the
> > ordination platform at Enryaku-ji ×"± [on Mt. Hiei] will become
> > useless, because it pertains only to the precepts in terms of
> > principle (rikai 7w )of shakumon. (STN 2: 1864-65)4"
> >
> > Here the text clearly asserts the unity of the rulers dharma and the
> > Buddhas Dharma, or the unity of religion and politics.
>
> Reread what you have posted, Chris. As Japan and most countries
nowadays are
> ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people are
all
> chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be built
and we
> only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the Komeito
Party or
> the unity of religion and politics.
>
> Stop being an apologist for a lay organization without a religion.
>
> Cody
>
>
--
Christopher H. Holte
scholarship efforts are still in flux. Mr. Asai's assumption that
anything that contains Hongaku text, for instance, is based on some
faulty premises. No matter how you cut it there are three types of
Gosho; A; Those that are undisputably authentic. B; Those that are
disputable (either because the original is lost or the text is claimed
to be a forgery) but can be argued either way. And C; Those that were
written by subsequent Disciples, heavily altered, or can otherwise be
determined as forgeries or otherwise essentially later works.
In article <19990930142653...@ng-fh1.aol.com>,
marc...@aol.com (MarcInMD) wrote:
> The first published collection of Gosho was only 100 years after the
> Daishonin's death and was known as the "Rokunai Gosho"(catalogued
> writings). <<<
>
> Just quick note. The Rokunai was naively thought to be a dependable
list of
> Nichiren's writings for many years. Unfortunatley the Rokunai has
changed
> several times and has appeared with a different list of writings
three times,
> the last version in 1833.
>
> The truth about authenticity has been gotten to, thankfully, in this
century.
> The scholarship of people like Yorin Asai, Shigo Kaisho and Tamura
Yoshiro have
> sperated once and for all Nichiren's writings from forgery.
>
--
Christopher H. Holte
Just for argument sake, you note that most of the "Hongaku Works"
included what looks like plagiarized quotes from the Tendai Authors of
Hongaku teachings. But you also claim that those Authors came after
Nichiren. Could the plagiarism be the other way around?
I will grant you that some (or all) of those works may be forgeries,
but Asai Yorin's scholarship was faulty to exclude Hongaku Text simply
because of his own biases.
In article <19990930143758...@ng-fh1.aol.com>,
marc...@aol.com (MarcInMD) wrote:
> Asai Yorin, who categorically dismissed any text which contained
> "Hongaku" ideas. Fumahiko notes that this categorical approach may
not
> be applicable in rejecting works as forgeries.<<<
>
> He notes that the Sandai
> Hiho Sho was examined by one Ito Zuiei in 1997 using a computerized
> statistical analysis (probably compared it to other Gosho), and he
> concluded that it was genuine.
>
--
Richard Thieme
>
(snip)
> > He notes that the Sandai
> > Hiho Sho was examined by one Ito Zuiei in 1997 using a computerized
> > statistical analysis (probably compared it to other Gosho), and he
> > concluded that it was genuine.
> >
>
completely worthless. We aren't talking dating here or chemical
examination of types of ink. Just how many times a term such as
"hongaku" apears in differing texts. Computers don't read gentlemen, and
they do not comprehend, at least not yet.
Regards,
Richard Thieme
Christopher H. Holte
> > > Hiho Sho was examined by one Ito Zuiei in 1997 using a
computerized
> > > statistical analysis (probably compared it to other Gosho), and he
> > > concluded that it was genuine.
> > >
> >
be
> completely worthless. We aren't talking dating here or chemical
> examination of types of ink. Just how many times a term such as
> "hongaku" apears in differing texts. Computers don't read gentlemen,
and
> they do not comprehend, at least not yet.
>
as a statistical tool. The old saying applies a caution "lies, damned
lies, and statistics". But used properly it is useful. Since the
oldest extent copy was made approximately 160 (Nisshin in 1442) years
later the Sandai Hiho Sho belongs to the category "B" of Gosho that
will be forever argued about unless some archeologist turns up a hidden
treasure trove while digging in some long ago burned temple. The
analysis only helps move it back from category "C" (obvious forgeries)
where analysts had assigned it immediately after World War II when
concepts like Obutsu Myogo became less popular.
The Sandai Hiho Sho contains important teachings which are worth
studying whether the Gosho is "authentic" or not.
--
Cody in Spain
it because you know I am right but don't have the grace to admit it?
Show me where, anywhere, that the Komeito party is justified by the
Daishonin.
Cody
Christopher H. Holte <> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> I'm not in any way advocating the rule of "parties". I fully agree
> that in a modern age it is the people who should decide when the
> Ordination platform should be built and not the Emperor. But of course
> that was over-ruled by your current High Priest.
Please explain this inanity.
Cody in Spain
Cody
Mr T
<i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
> Hate to disagree with you , Kurt, but I will take Spain,
>
> Cody
Hope to go there soon! The Prado is high on my list of places to go.
Hey, I was even born in Toledo!
(Ohio)
Christopher H. Holte
reading the Sandai Hiho Sho with a critical eye. I looked for it in the
"Major Writings" and even though I remember it in various publications
I didn't see it in the 7 volumes. However, when Nichiren talks about
Obutsu Myogo, I doubt he meant rule by "One religious ORGANIZATION"
but rather "The Dharma of the ruler in concordance with the Dharma of
the Religion". That is a country where True Buddhism is ascendent and
where people rule according to Buddhist Principle.
In the Letter to Gijobo he says:
The teaching of the Juryo chapter bears special significance for me,
Nichiren. T’ien-t’ai and Dengyo understood it in a general way but did
not reveal it in words, and the same was true of Nagarjuna and
Vasubandhu. The Jigage section of the chapter states, ‘...single-
mindedly desiring to see the Buddha, not hesitating even if it costs
them their lives...’ I, Nichiren, have called forth Buddhahood from
within my life by living this sentence. This means that I myself
embodied the Three Great Secret Laws, or the reality of the three
thousand realms in a single moment of life, implied in the Juryo
chapter. But let us keep this to ourselves!
In article <nert-30099...@ip35-213.bur.primenet.com>,
ne...@bobco.com (Mr T) wrote:
> In article <xfRI3.1005$HX....@nntpserver.swip.net>, "Yidaki"
> <yida...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > As Japan and most countries nowadays are
> > > ruled by a democracy, the "ruler" is the people. When the people
are all
> > > chanting and we have kosen rufu, the High Sanctuary should be
built and we
> > > only have to "await the time". This in no way justifies the
Komeito Party
> > or
> > > the unity of religion and politics.
> > >
> > > Cody
> >
> > hehe, yeah right. and all federales are nice guys.
> > the biggest of them all is usa(big in mouth and big in bag) and
they arent
> > even a democracy, as some people wants to believe...
>
> But compared to some of the social anarchy and corruption in
government we
> see around the globe today, I'll take the US any day, thank you.
>
> --
> Kurt
>
> anti-spam measure:
> to reply send to: martman at primenet dot com
>
--
Christopher H. Holte
meaning mistake and that Ikeda compounded it, by starting a political
party and tying it to the Gakkai. I've talked about this extensively on
IRG and Ichinet. It laid the Gakkai open to political machinations or
charges of political machinations (just as bad). It drew fire from the
evil political parties of Japan (Socialists, Communists and Liberal
Democrats - none of whom have reputations for complete honesty or
strait forwardness). It led to Ikeda going to jail. It caused the
Gakkai to be attacked by people who would otherwise have not been
interested in it (for political reasons). It gave a vehicle for
attacking the Gakkai as a political organization to the Gakkai's social
and religious enemies within Nichiren Shoshu and without. Political
involvement by lay organizations or by religions is a long and
honorable tradition in other countries (Catholic Socialist anyone?),
nevertheless, it's corrupting potential is always there. If Toda could
have divorced his political from his religious activities it would have
been one thing, but that was impossible. Now, when the Komeito **is**
officially divorced from the Gakkai, it doesn't matter -- because the
two organizations still draw fire directed at or through the other one.
The danger is that the lure of money is also the lure of convenient
thinking. It is easy to justify Gucci shoes or fancy cars as having
been "earned" for both Politicians and religious leaders. With
Political power, it is possible to cover up ones behavior, deflect it
to others, or intimidate others without necessarilly even trying.
Power corrupts and corruption tends to spread in all directions. How
many people led the Komeito or infiltrated the Gakkai because of dreams
of secular power rather than the desire to save people from suffering?
How many of the people who are leading the "charge" are sincere?
No the Komeito was a mistake, and it is a damn good lesson for what not
to do in the pursuit of Kosenrufu.
In article <938782219.414791@cache1>,
"Cody in Spain" <i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
--
Christopher H. Holte
> Daishonin's death and was known as the "Rokunai Gosho"(catalogued
> writings). <<<
>
list of
> Nichiren's writings for many years. Unfortunatley the Rokunai has
changed
> several times and has appeared with a different list of writings
three times,
> the last version in 1833.
>
> The truth about authenticity has been gotten to, thankfully, in this
century.
> The scholarship of people like Yorin Asai, Shigo Kaisho and Tamura
Yoshiro have
>
Well the trouble is that an objective examination of Yorin Asai's work
casts doubt on the quality of his analysis.
--
Christopher H. Holte
> "Hongaku" ideas. Fumahiko notes that this categorical approach may
> not
> be applicable in rejecting works as forgeries.<<<
>
> he found many of the forged Hongaku texts were straight rip offs
> of earlier Tendai texts. They would read line by line exactly
> the same as some earlier known Tendai tract with the occasional
> reference to chanting Daimoku wedged it. He also found that there
> were absolutely no Hongaku texts that had an autograph and no
> Hongaku texts that had an early mention or reference by relieable
> sources ( ie Nikko). It is also clear that when you compare Hongaku
> preaching in the forged
> texts to Nichiren's authenticated texts the ideas themselves are
> different.
have my book with me with the calculations) that are in dispute.
Additionally there are many more that are undoubtedly forgeries (such
as at least one of those two "transfer documents" that Nichiren Shoshu
likes to tout as justification for it's "inheritance of the Law"
theory). There are three things that cast doubt on Asai's hacksaw.
One: There are undoubted hongaku ideas (not exagerated -- but there
nevertheless) in works with "autographs" (original copies).
Two: While Hongaku teachings may have been written down after
Nichiren's day, they were current during Nichiren's day and many of
them are attributed to Tendai Thinkers coterminous with Nichiren or
slightly before his time. This means that if he was as bright and as in
touch with reality as he seems, that he was very well acquainted with
the debates and had his own opinions. Hongaku imagery was popular
among the poor and dispossessed -- but is never popular among priests
who depend on donations to get by -- it could well be that the
originals for those texts were indeed destroyed. It could well be
that later Tendai Writers were either thinking on the same sheet of
music or were actually stealing from Nichiren's ideas, and that those
works attributed to earlier writers were orally discussed by Nichiren.
He would not have been compelled to attribute ideas not yet written
down or attributed to anyone to anyone else.
Three: Assai's method would rule some authenticated works as "Hongaku"
and is a sectarian approach to what is basically a conservators
problem. Now there is no doubt that some of the works attributed to
Nichiren that contain Hongaku Doctrine are forgeries, but Asai's
approach was too ready with the hacksaw. The author of the article
used the letters written to Sairenbo and the Sandai Hiho Sho as his
text in his discussion. Noting that the Sandai Hiho Sho contains and
develops ideas first taught in other texts and has only a few unique
ideas within it. These works belong to a category "B" that does not
admit either full authentication or full discrediting. I do know that
before accepting doctrines that come from Gosho in category "B" it
would be best to review the 131 works with original copies and see if
those ideas correlate.
>
> One can safely dismiss any text attributed to Nichiren that uses
> exagerated Hongaku imagry . These are mere copies of early Tendai
> tracts in many cases and no one has yet to come up with an original
> signature on any of these. Nichiren was not likely a plagerizer of
> the proportion needed to validate these texts and if he was, then
> Nichiren himself is invalidated as an honest person and
> Bruce Maltz may indeed be his re-incarnation.
As to "exagerated hongaku imagery" that really depends on what you
mean. The author of the critique pointed out several instances of
"exagerated hongaku imagery" in some of Nichiren's authenticated
works. Nichiren would not have plagerized anyone, but if as noted
these works weren't yet written down or in general circulation -- but
the ideas were, then he was simply speaking in his time. I have
written poems and songs that were very similar to others that came out
long after mine were written, and yet I did not plagerize these people,
nor did they plagerize me (as I had not published them). Likewise with
other ideas. If one has a good idea it is very likely that someone is
thinking something similar if one takes as given that they are reading
the same sources and are in a similar environment. Hongaku ideas as
well as criticisms of their misuse, are present in Nichiren's writings.
>
> He notes that the Sandai
> Hiho Sho was examined by one Ito Zuiei in 1997 using a computerized
> statistical analysis (probably compared it to other Gosho), and he
> concluded that it was genuine.
>
0f course there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, so we cannot say
that those works are not forgeries either unless we have an original in
Nichiren's, or one of his immediate, disciples.
--
Cody in Spain
I would say you need to look at Ikeda for that answer: power, wealth,
position, influence; all the things Nichiren said are not Buddhism.
Cody
Christopher H. Holte <> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> Cody this may surprise you, but I think that Josei Toda made a well
> meaning mistake and that Ikeda compounded it, by starting a political
> party and tying it to the Gakkai.
snip
Christopher H. Holte
are still related. That is probably appropriate. The mistake was in
the execution not the intentions. We could use a clean government
party here in the USA, just not one created by Fred Zaitsu or some
other Gakkai leader.
As to your second point, the point that Nichiren made was that a true
Buddhist should seek to bring the dharma of the nation in accordance
with the dharma of the law. Power, wealth, position and influence, are
all secondary acquisitions compared to the wealth that one generates
from practicing Buddhism correctly, and avail a man little if he
doesn't. I am not interested in judging Ikeda or deifying him. He is a
man who leads the SGI organization, is not perfect, and is not evil
either.
In article <939066199.108734@cache1>,
"Cody in Spain" <i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
--
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte <escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> The Komeito is formally separate from the Gakkai.
Is this the same logic that Ikeda resigned from the Gakkai and then because
the Honorary President of the SGI?
Give me a break, Ikeda calls the shots for both organizations, and you know
it. Soon it will be Hiromasa.
Cody
Christopher H. Holte
I really don't care what you say about it. Ikeda has influence but
doesn't call the shots in the Komeito as far as I know. If and when
they try to put Hiromasu in charge I will cross that bridge. When
Ikeda was honorary president it was honorary president of the
Sokagakkai. He soon managed to become the real president of SGI. Akiya
follows his direction, and Ikeda has massive influence over the Gakkai,
and through that influence over the Komeito. Because these are
Japanese Organizations we may never know how much is what. Komeito
recently had several leaders who went against Ikeda, so I doubt his
influence is total.
In article <939144648.584869@cache1>,
"Cody in Spain" <i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
>
--
Cody in Spain
Christopher H. Holte escribió en el mensaje de noticias
> Well Mr. Cody. I don't know for a fact that Ikeda calls the shots, and
> I really don't care what you say about it.
If you really don't care, why are you responding to what I say? I care what
you say, Chris.
Ikeda has influence but
> doesn't call the shots in the Komeito as far as I know.
I get the feeling you don't know who does call the shots. Major news
services say Ikeda does and I don't see any "Forever Sensei" songs sung
about anyone else.
If and when
> they try to put Hiromasu in charge I will cross that bridge.
Yep, you will cross the bridge if you run fast enough before it collapses.
When
> Ikeda was honorary president it was honorary president of the
> Sokagakkai. He soon managed to become the real president of SGI. Akiya
> follows his direction, and Ikeda has massive influence over the Gakkai,
> and through that influence over the Komeito. Because these are
> Japanese Organizations we may never know how much is what. Komeito
> recently had several leaders who went against Ikeda, so I doubt his
> influence is total.
What are these Komeito leaders doing now? And, you have to agree, no-one has
more influence in either the SGI or Komeito than Ikeda.
Cody
Christopher H. Holte
Ikeda has such influence that it amounts to control. I don't know if
this power has gone to his head or not. Others allege that it has, but
that is the nature of people with power. Others will always find fault
out of either jealousy, misplaced anger, or inadvertant slights -- even
if the person is a saint. But how can one have such power and
expectations placed on one -- for so long -- and not have it go to ones
head? Depending on heros leads to the power of such people for good or
ill to be exagerated. Like Ikeda, like Nikken. I can judge neither of
them as individuals. I can only judge what they say and do with regard
to the organization. I can second guess Ikeda, it is easy, he is
human, he has to have made errors. He is human, no matter what the
rhetoric he has to have engaged in "infighting". He is human, so some
of what he is doing has to be self serving. Whether he is aware of
that I can't judge -- and I won't. I could post day after day, attacks
on his character, attacks on the Gakkai, attacks on our organization,
but if I did I'd be a slanderer of the Law and I'd be a liar. I'd be a
liar because I don't ***know*** the truth -- no matter what I may
suspect.
Only in the area of doctrines can we judge, and that is only because we
can compare what is written with what is said, or what is written now
with what was written by the original master. Even there it is not
easy, because people grow. It is true that the doctrines of Nichiren
changed as he grew. The ones written before Tatsunokuchi Beach are
different from those later. For that reason it would be better if we
had well trained teachers among us, who could guide us in our studies.
Fortunately the core teachings of Nichiren's Buddhism are rather
simple. Ultimately each person judges themselves. Ultimately what goes
around does come around. Ultimately the truth does come out -- if one
is willing to face it when it does.
There are still Shingon, Zen, Jodo believers in this world. Doubtless
the Kegon sect is still around. Tendai is still more Shingon than
Lotus Sutra. There are still people who defend Kobo Daishi as a great
teacher, 750 years after Nichiren first showed that he was mistaken.
There are still people who believe in the Emperor 50 years after the
emperor proved he was just a foolish man who should have been condemned
for all the murders he was responsible for (not just war but
atrocities). There are still people who believe that white folk are
somehow superior to black folk, or that the world is flat. There are
people who collect fossils and deny evolution. There are few people
who are willing to "honestly discard" the provisional teachings and
look for the truth. When they do they easilly stop for a rest in
mistaken groups. Just as you allege that the only reason people like
me hang with the Gakkai is because our friends are there. The
difference between a foolish person and a wise person is that the wise
person is not taken in by the magic city, though he may enjoy it's
comforts for a time.
I go into a Catholic Church, listen to the priest, and I can sit and
examine his words with equanamity. Weighing the parts that are true and
correct against those parts that have caused uncalculatable suffering
over the years. I don't stand and say "your teaching is a teaching of
devils!" But I don't pretend to be a Catholic either. I will talk
about the Bible to such people, and people will nod their heads in
agreement until I really get warmed to my topic and then they simply
stare. What is this man to condemn a great prophet like Samuel as an
advocator of genocide? He is slandering God! But didn't Samuel pick
David because Saul refused to commit genocide? If I go against a God,
when he does evil, perhaps I will be punished. Perhaps lightening bolts
will fall on me. But perhaps that was no god, but a false god, and the
falseness was in foolish people claiming authority they never should
have claimed.
The enemy is the lies, and the liars are victims of their own lies.
In article <939201474.211197@cache1>,
"Cody in Spain" <i...@jamthespamersciberia.com> wrote:
>
--