Bruce is Silly
Rialcnis
from David Cole
Bruce is plastering the ARBN with one awful remark after another about his
own fanny which is the basis for his Buddhism. His Buddhism is really
Buttism just like the way the Japanese pronounce it.
bruce--your ideas about Buddhism are fixated. You have no concept of what
it really is. You are looking for formality in Chaos and creating Chaos
where there is formality. You have partaken of doggie spit and donkey
cheese.
Your posts, one after another are hopelessly stupid, illogical and nasty.
You don't have any power in the Buddhist community, fortunately, so your
aren't equal to Davedatta or anything. You are just ignorant and scared.
Sorry,
David Cole
Big Bopper
In article <4vo8vh$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) wrote:
>Your posts, one after another are hopelessly stupid, illogical and nasty.
>You don't have any power in the Buddhist community, fortunately, so your
>aren't equal to Davedatta or anything. You are just ignorant and scared.
The only way to get me to stop,
is to show me some proof that the DaiGohonzon
is more than a plank of camphor wood,
that the 9th HP used to forge a Gohonzon,
and then claim Nichiren did it.
Why is that so hard to do?
Answer: Because it is not real!
Bruce
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
http://www.cris.com/~fujufuse/hokkekai.htm
(c) Hokke Kai International 1996
Michael Bowman
>
>In article <4vo8vh$d...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) wrote:
>>Your posts, one after another are hopelessly stupid, illogical and nasty.
>>You don't have any power in the Buddhist community, fortunately, so your
>>aren't equal to Davedatta or anything. You are just ignorant and scared.
>
>The only way to get me to stop,
>is to show me some proof that the DaiGohonzon
>is more than a plank of camphor wood,
>that the 9th HP used to forge a Gohonzon,
>and then claim Nichiren did it.
>Why is that so hard to do?
>
>Answer: Because it is not real!
>
>Bruce
Bruce, all animosity aside, I've asked you more than once to provide
me with a direct quote of the 9th HP where he makes even the
slightest mention of the Dai-Gohonzon.
I'm still waiting.
Seems to me that if someone had taken all the time and trouble to
manufacture an object of worship in order to elevate the status of
his own sect, he would have at least mentioned that object of
worship somewhere in his writings.
Fact is, he never did.
Prove me wrong.
Mike
Big Bopper
In article <4vrfa9$4...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>Bruce, all animosity aside, I've asked you more than once to provide
>me with a direct quote of the 9th HP where he makes even the
>slightest mention of the Dai-Gohonzon.
I have, but I'll dig up the info again and send it to you.
But, think of what you are saying.
Here we have the 9th HP and YOU cannot even find
anything from him about the so-called Ita Mandala.
The 9th HP was very prolific, and wrote lots of documents.
I suggest you ask your local devil, I mean priest
and ask for help.
I have no interest in the Daig,
other than my duty of pointing out that it is a
slander of Nichiren's and Shakyamuni's doctrine.
If your were to present the DaiG to Nichiren,
how in the world could you do it,
if you cannot even prove it to me
that it is authentic?
Michael Bowman
>
>In article <4vrfa9$4...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>>Bruce, all animosity aside, I've asked you more than once to provide
>>me with a direct quote of the 9th HP where he makes even the
>>slightest mention of the Dai-Gohonzon.
>
>I have, but I'll dig up the info again and send it to you.
I must have missed it. Looking forward to whatever you can produce
in that regard.
>But, think of what you are saying.
>Here we have the 9th HP and YOU cannot even find
>anything from him about the so-called Ita Mandala.
>The 9th HP was very prolific, and wrote lots of documents.
>I suggest you ask your local devil, I mean priest
>and ask for help.
>
>I have no interest in the Daig,
>other than my duty of pointing out that it is a
>slander of Nichiren's and Shakyamuni's doctrine.
>
>If your were to present the DaiG to Nichiren,
>how in the world could you do it,
>if you cannot even prove it to me
>that it is authentic?
>
>Bruce
Personal attacks aside, you see my point.
You've repeatedly said, in effect, that if ND had created this
object of worship for the entire world for the 10,000 years of the
era of the End of the Law (Mappo - Oh, and by the way, the end of
what Law?), seems reasonable to conclude that he would have
mentioned it somewhere.
I'm merely attempting to hold you to those same standards.
Btw, it's you, not me, who has repeatedly mentioned the 9th HP and
the Dai-Gohonzon in the same breath.
Fact is, and I have discussed this with my "devil" priest, the 9th
HP, in spite of your assertions, never once even remotely alluded
to the Dai-Gohonzon, much less championed it in order to promote
his own sect.
So prove me wrong with some direct quotes, if you can.
Mike
Hymen Kempon Hokke Kai
In article <4vumbs$p...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>So prove me wrong with some direct quotes, if you can.
>
>Mike
Sure, but only after Criag makes a fool of himself
by not producing any documentation regarding the Plank.
Mike, you seem rational,
If you are telling the world that the DaiG is real,
you are the one that has to show proof!
If I told you that Nichiren left a "wooden box" to be sent to the USA
and we have it in Oregon, and that it will last for 10,000 years and
create world peace, and it is the real Object of Worship,
wouldn't you want proof that it was real? You would not have to prove it
is "only a box", I would be in a position to show or document
why we make that "claim".
What the 9th -10th -15th- 56th Chief Priest says is totally irrelivant!
It is what Nichiren said,
Buddhism is about what Shakyamuni said.
Rogowdoc
Mike writes:
"Fact is, and I have discussed this with my "devil" priest, the 9th
HP, in spite of your assertions, never once even remotely alluded
to the Dai-Gohonzon, much less championed it in order to promote
his own sect."
Then, was it inscribed at a later date?
Mark
Michael Bowman
>
>In article <4vumbs$p...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>>So prove me wrong with some direct quotes, if you can.
>>
>>Mike
>
>Sure, but only after Criag makes a fool of himself
>by not producing any documentation regarding the Plank.
>Mike, you seem rational,
>If you are telling the world that the DaiG is real,
>you are the one that has to show proof!
So personal attacks against Craig aside, I guess you haven't managed
to come up with any direct quotes from the 9th HP concerning the
Dai-Gohonzon.
As for proving the validity of the Dai-Gohonzon, I've already
posted that Taisekiji possesses a document in Nikko Shonin's own
hand that he transferred said object of worship to Nichimoku
Shonin.
Your only response was that this document does not exist.
What can I say?
I'm sorry that the facts don't coincide with your view of reality,
but that's your problem, not mine.
>If I told you that Nichiren left a "wooden box" to be sent to the USA
>and we have it in Oregon, and that it will last for 10,000 years and
>create world peace, and it is the real Object of Worship,
>wouldn't you want proof that it was real? You would not have to prove it
>is "only a box", I would be in a position to show or document
>why we make that "claim".
>
>What the 9th -10th -15th- 56th Chief Priest says is totally irrelivant!
>It is what Nichiren said,
>Buddhism is about what Shakyamuni said.
>
>Bruce
I disagree. The problem is, as I see it, that not enough people are
truly cognizant of just what the Daishinin said, not to mention the
9th, 10th, 15th or 56th HP.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, had Daisaku seen fit to
promote his professed religion rather than his own greatness, all of
the above would have been translated. Instead, we have numerous
ghost-written works which insist that Daisaku is everybody's eternal
master.
Mike
Aunti Pasta
In article <508fa4$n...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>As for proving the validity of the Dai-Gohonzon, I've already
>posted that Taisekiji possesses a document in Nikko Shonin's own
>hand that he transferred said object of worship to Nichimoku
>Shonin.
Mike. This document is not in Nikko's or Nichimoku's handwriting.
This letter was already talked bout on AOL about a year ago.
Of course, If it is real, than I would have no recourse but to admit that the
DaiG is real. Show it to me.
Bo Fugen
Michael Bowman wrote:
>
> In <4vvada$q...@herald.concentric.net> fuju...@cris.com (Hymen Kempon Hokke Kai) writes:
>
> >
> >In article <4vumbs$p...@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
> >>So prove me wrong with some direct quotes, if you can.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >
> >Sure, but only after Criag makes a fool of himself
> >by not producing any documentation regarding the Plank.
> >Mike, you seem rational,
> >If you are telling the world that the DaiG is real,
> >you are the one that has to show proof!
>
> So personal attacks against Craig aside, I guess you haven't managed
> to come up with any direct quotes from the 9th HP concerning the
> Dai-Gohonzon.
>
> posted that Taisekiji possesses a document in Nikko Shonin's own
> hand that he transferred said object of worship to Nichimoku
> Shonin.
Mike, has anyone seen it or do we have to take your word for it?
And, do you think it is wrong to question the authenticity of things
that are so vital to our faith? After all, I am sure that you don't want
to follow false teachings either. I don't see any Nichiren Shoshu member
going out of their way to provide the answers to Bruce's and Susan's
questions. It's been said that if those questions can be answered and
the answers validated, all would convert to Nichiren Shoshu.
Until such time it is safe to assume that most of faith in Nichiren
Shoshu is blind.
Gassho,
Bo Fugen
Cult Buster
In article <322857...@sprynet.com>, Bo Fugen <fu...@sprynet.com> wrote:
>> As for proving the validity of the Dai-Gohonzon, I've already
>> posted that Taisekiji possesses a document in Nikko Shonin's own
>> hand that he transferred said object of worship to Nichimoku
>> Shonin.
>
>Mike, has anyone seen it or do we have to take your word for it?
>And, do you think it is wrong to question the authenticity of things
>that are so vital to our faith? After all, I am sure that you don't want
>to follow false teachings either. I don't see any Nichiren Shoshu member
>going out of their way to provide the answers to Bruce's and Susan's
>questions. It's been said that if those questions can be answered and
>the answers validated, all would convert to Nichiren Shoshu.
>
>Until such time it is safe to assume that most of faith in Nichiren
>Shoshu is blind.
>
>Gassho,
>Bo Fugen
Let me put this out to Mike.
If I can prove to you that the so-called document you refer to is a "fake"
will you then leave Nichiren Shoshu?
Rialcnis
A question was just asked to the Nichiren Shoshu Overseas Bureau Chief
Priest about those asking for proof of the Dai-Gohonzon's heritage.
He said, among other things, (Paraphrased, secondhand) "Tell them to prove
what they say. What they say is ...(essentially) stupid....Don't dirty
your robe to try to prove anything to them."
David Cole
Cult Buster
Dave, I think they have Ka-Ka on their robe for saying such a
ridiculous statement. Think about how absurd that statement is.
It proves once again, that the DaiG is nothing but wishful thinking,
on a Plank of Camphor.
Can you image Nichiren saying: "Don't dirty your robe......"
He would say, "Get dirty, roll in the mud if you have to, but prove to the
world that the Object of Worship is the DaiG"
NIKKO
In article <50an2u$c...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) wrote:
>A question was just asked to the Nichiren Shoshu Overseas Bureau Chief
>Priest about those asking for proof of the Dai-Gohonzon's heritage.
>
>He said, among other things, (Paraphrased, secondhand) "Tell them to prove
>what they say. What they say is ...(essentially) stupid....Don't dirty
>your robe to try to prove anything to them."
>
>David Cole
"Deposition of Yori Moto Chin Jo"
which is written in a legal format and more importantly, was later written out
by none other that *Nikkyo Shonin*
(who added inserts of clarification when he was very advanced in age, so this
should be considered Nikko speaking to us, so listen carefully)
" We believe the Reverend Nichiren Shonin is the Bodhisattva Jogyo. The
Hokekyo shows the Master of the three worlds as the Mother and Father of All
Beings, the Tathagata Shakya."
Showa Teihon p.1358, foot note #1(textual variance)
The "textual variance refers to Nikko's clarifying insert about "Bodhisattva
Jogyo."
There are two copies of this document.
A revised and an unrevised copy.
The revised copy ***contains Nikko's colophon***.
At the bottom:
"I have copied the revised edition, BYAKUREN"
(Nikko s formal name) "at age 71".
So, the Taissekiji claim of Nichiren
as the Eternal Buddha is completely defeated.
Rialcnis
Bruce
From David Cole
Because you are looking at the Dai-Gohonzon theoretically, you cannot see
the obvious.
There were times when the Daishonin said, "don't dirty your robe."
So did Shakyamuni.
You are ignoring the Sutra and the Gosho passages referring to the secret.
You think you know what the "secret," is. But you are giving it a
theoretical meaning. The real secret is bigger than life itself and is
most certainly the Dai-Gohonzon. You saw it even before your present
life.
You are still only looking at surface meaning. The answer will not come
in shallow logic. the Secret and Mystic Power of the Buddha actually
stops slanderers from remembering.
No wonder you don't remember!
David Cole
Rialcnis
Bruce
you are so gullible.
But....most importantly you are lacking in the Buddhist experience to back
up your adamant position. You are relying on the same old tired stuff
which means nothing. enemies of Nichiren Daishonin already tried
everything to disprove Nichiren Shoshu and never can, do you think you are
PROVING anything?
You aren't. But, for you I will, "dirty my robe." But only if you ask the
right questions and I cannot tell you what those questions are.
David Cole
Bo Fugen
Dave, I think you're insane.
Please don't take it as an insult and see a doctor.
Gassho,
Bo Fugen
Bo Fugen
Rialcnis wrote:
..... I will, "dirty my robe." But only if you ask the
> right questions and I cannot tell you what those questions are.
>
> David Cole
David, what is the sound of one foot tapping?
Bo Fugen
Rialcnis
To Bo
From David Cole
it is so glaringly stupid that people are pretending to practice Buddhism
and have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it came to exist.
You comments are lame and meaningless. You don't have the understanding
of a gnat. It's not one shoew tapping, it's your brain cells dying that's
the only sound you are hearing.
Please don't take this as an insult. Take 1200 mcg of LSD after fasting
for two weeks and call me in the morning.
David Cole
Warren Peace
In article <50kaob$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) wrote:
>
>Please don't take this as an insult. Take 1200 mcg of LSD after fasting
>for two weeks and call me in the morning.
>
>
>David Cole
Finally, we learn the secret of Dave's visions.
Bruce
Bo Fugen
Rialcnis wrote:
>
> To Bo
>
> From David Cole
>
> it is so glaringly stupid that people are pretending to practice Buddhism
> and have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it came to exist.
>
> You comments are lame and meaningless. You don't have the understanding
> of a gnat. It's not one shoew tapping, it's your brain cells dying that's
> the only sound you are hearing.
>
> for two weeks and call me in the morning.
>
> David Cole
My dear friend. Your brain has been fried, as is very obvious by your
empty, idiotic posts. You keep claiming that your insane delusions,
produced by over-intake of dope, constitute the proof of your faith and
are trying to convince others that it's the way to go...
You are a pathetic loser, worthy of pity and compassion. Buddhist you're
NOT, so in NO WAY you're in a position to judge anyone's understanding
of Buddhism.
Please get some professional help!
With pity,
Bo Fugen
jonpetry
rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) wrote:
>
>Please don't take this as an insult. Take 1200 mcg of LSD after fasting
>for two weeks and call me in the morning.
>
>
>David Cole
Sorry Dave but none of us care to follow the Dave Cole diet plan for
"true" [?] enlightenment.
Michael Bowman
In <508j9b$7...@herald.concentric.net> fuju...@cris.com (Aunti Pasta) writes:
>
>In article <508fa4$n...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>>As for proving the validity of the Dai-Gohonzon, I've already
>>posted that Taisekiji possesses a document in Nikko Shonin's own
>>hand that he transferred said object of worship to Nichimoku
>>Shonin.
>
>Mike. This document is not in Nikko's or Nichimoku's handwriting.
>This letter was already talked bout on AOL about a year ago.
>Of course, If it is real, than I would have no recourse but to admit that the
>DaiG is real. Show it to me.
>
>Bruce
Yea, like I've got it here on my bookshelf.
I have no idea what was discussed on AOL about a year ago, so I
can't comment upon that.
But it exists, in Nikko Shonin's own hand, at Taisekiji. If you want
to see it, I suggest you contact your nearest Nichiren Shoshu
priest.
Taisekiji also possesses two Gohonzons inscribed by Nikko Shonin in
the later years of his life which proclaim Nichimoku Shonin as his
true disciple and a master at remonstrating to the throne, which
contradicts your incessant assertions that Nikko Shonin left
Taisekiji in a huff, never to return.
Mike
Michael Bowman
In <509rl6$6...@herald.concentric.net> fuju...@cris.com (Cult Buster) writes:
>Let me put this out to Mike.
>If I can prove to you that the so-called document you refer to is a "fake"
>will you then leave Nichiren Shoshu?
>Bruce
Do it, or grab some bench beside Lori.
Mike
Michael Bowman
>Mike, has anyone seen it or do we have to take your word for it?
>And, do you think it is wrong to question the authenticity of things
>that are so vital to our faith? After all, I am sure that you don't want
>to follow false teachings either. I don't see any Nichiren Shoshu member
>going out of their way to provide the answers to Bruce's and Susan's
>questions. It's been said that if those questions can be answered and
>the answers validated, all would convert to Nichiren Shoshu.
>
>Until such time it is safe to assume that most of faith in Nichiren
>Shoshu is blind.
>
>Gassho,
>Bo Fugen
I appreciate and respect your point.
The main problem, from where I'm sitting, is that up to now,
Nichiren Shoshu has focused its efforts on Japan, and so those of
us of the non-Japanese persuasion, much to the consternation of the
priest at the Chicago temple, btw, have been given short shrift in
terms of dealing with the issues and questions we face here in this
country.
My long years in the Gakkai have taught me, if nothing else, that it
is never wrong to question anything.
But my sense is that just because people have what they feel are
legitimate and probing questions, they also assume that there are no
legitimate and probing answers.
Just because my fellow believers, due to the language barrier, do not
have access to all of the materials which address these questions,
that doesn't mean the materials don't exist.
My priest and I are looking forward to the day when Nichiren Shoshu
turns its attention to our little problems and questions here.
Mike
Warren Peace
In article <50m4rq$q...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>But it exists, in Nikko Shonin's own hand, at Taisekiji. If you want
>to see it, I suggest you contact your nearest Nichiren Shoshu
>priest.
Like I am going to wait for you to give me this idea....NOT
I have already done this. The document is not at Taisekiji
but at another Temple, and was only recently discovered,
and it is not in Nikko's handwriting.
>Taisekiji also possesses two Gohonzons inscribed by Nikko Shonin in
>the later years of his life which proclaim Nichimoku Shonin as his
>true disciple and a master at remonstrating to the throne, which
>contradicts your incessant assertions that Nikko Shonin left
>Taisekiji in a huff, never to return.
No, it doesn't.
Nichimoku followed Nikko to the Fuji area,
and settling at Taisekiji.
Nikko left and never Never NEver NEVer NEVER returned.
You would think that before he died he would want to
see the so-called DaiGohonzon wouldn't you?
I see from your anger that I am tapping into your false belief system,
don't get mad at me, I have not lied to you,
Taisekiji has.
Warren Peace
In article <50m6ss$f...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>>Let me put this out to Mike.
>>If I can prove to you that the so-called document you refer to is a "fake"
>>will you then leave Nichiren Shoshu?
>>Bruce
>
>Do it, or grab some bench beside Lori.
>
>Mike
Your response is bizarre!
Why wouldn't you leave a sect of liars?
Warren Peace
In article <50m6l9$f...@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com (Michael Bowman) wrote:
>The main problem, from where I'm sitting, is that up to now,
>Nichiren Shoshu has focused its efforts on Japan, and so those of
>us of the non-Japanese persuasion, much to the consternation of the
>priest at the Chicago temple, btw, have been given short shrift in
>terms of dealing with the issues and questions we face here in this
>country.
The mail problem, Mike, is that there is not documentation to support the
ideas of Taisekiji. Have you found the Kegi Sho by Nichiju? Read it, it will
open your eyes. Why would Nichiju refer to Nichiren as Jogyo, and the Original
Buddha as Lord Shakyamuni?
There is no document at Taisekiji written by Nikko regarding the DaiG
Because, there was no Daig while Nikko was alive.
Rialcnis
To Bruce
from David Cole
No. You have not found the secret to Dave's vision yet.
But you will be ashamed when you do.
You are so ignorant that you cannot see the obvious!
Buddhism is based on an amazing experience!
Are you so dumb you don't understand this?
Do you think Buddhism is stiff and cardboard dogma?
Buddhism is an exploding nebula! The shattering experience of the speed
of light.
Buddhism is the incredible awareness of the ten directions of space.
Buddhism is the interconnectedness of all life in a single consciousness.
Buddhism is the ultimate science.
Buddhism is the chemistry of your brain and the storage of every thought,
feeliong and perception of all beings.
Cowards will never grasp what buddhism is.
read your books Bruce. Spin your wheels.
David Cole
Rialcnis
To Bo
I am professional help.
This is exactly what I am trying to illustrate.
You think buddhism is some safe little pansy practice.
What insight?
What clarity of thought.
Tell me Bo explain to me what exactly you think Buddhism is?
Was Shakyamuni sitting there picking lint from his navel?
You want to know what delusion really is? People who pretend they are
Buddhists and have absolutely NO idea what it is they are practising or
the nature of the very experience at he root of it.
In my own experience in 1968, prior to reading the lotus Sutra or no
anything about Nichiren (at least in this life time.) I recapitualated
the entire thread of the Buddhist Sutras, viewed the Middle path and enter
the Stupa of taho buddha.
The expereience was real. Nothing like what you may imagine. Yet
unconsciously you know too. You remember nothing, that is why what i am
saying is hard to believe and difficult to understand.
In reality my experience was nothing extraordinary. It is very common to
say the least.
Cowards cannot understand.
Thank You
David Cole
Rialcnis
To Jon
From David Cole
There is another way.
Buddhism is the Middle Way.
For a bunch of stiff cardboard donkey brains like you guys, you need an
extreme
disruptive force. Mappo is an interesting time.
You guys need a severe wake up call. To find the middle, guys like you
need a big jolt --something to remind you about life and death in it's
more vigorous manifestation.
Let your egos melt away and find the Middle Path.
Fast for three months. That would be comparative moderation.
Why do you all want to make buddhism a weak-tit religion. Buddhism is
Awesome....you guys are locked into a tinsy-winsy itsy bitsy
non-functional-cowardly -non-faith vehicle. TINY-YANA
Thank You
David Cole
Fred Wolff
>To Bo
>From David Cole
>it is so glaringly stupid that people are pretending to practice Buddhism
>and have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it came to exist.
>You comments are lame and meaningless. You don't have the understanding
>of a gnat. It's not one shoew tapping, it's your brain cells dying that's
>the only sound you are hearing.
>Please don't take this as an insult. Take 1200 mcg of LSD after fasting
>for two weeks and call me in the morning.
>David Cole
David:
Would you consider moving and taking a job in another area? I know a village
that is missing an idiot.
Please don't take this as an insult 8^)
I can't believe I stooped to your level. Oh well, nobody's perfect.
Fred
Fred Wolff
>To Jon
>From David Cole
>There is another way.
I know I shouldn't say this, as it is certainly not right, but are you sure
that you, Dave, weren't a poster child for prophylactics?
Fred
jonpetry
Rialcnis wrote:
>
> To Jon
>
> From David Cole
>
> There is another way.
>
> Buddhism is the Middle Way.
>
> For a bunch of stiff cardboard donkey brains like you guys, you need an
> extreme
> disruptive force. Mappo is an interesting time.
>
> You guys need a severe wake up call. To find the middle, guys like you
> need a big jolt --something to remind you about life and death in it's
> more vigorous manifestation.
>
> Let your egos melt away and find the Middle Path.
>
> Fast for three months. That would be comparative moderation.
>
> Why do you all want to make buddhism a weak-tit religion. Buddhism is
> Awesome....you guys are locked into a tinsy-winsy itsy bitsy
> non-functional-cowardly -non-faith vehicle. TINY-YANA
>
>
> David Cole
Sorry Dave but your posts indicate that you have lost your way and have wandered far
from the path. I am truly sorry that this has happened to you. It is clear that you
have no understanding of my experience just as it is clear that no small part of your
experience has been chemically induced and is inherently suspect. I hope you find your
way back someday.
Fred Wolff
>To Bruce
>Do you think Buddhism is stiff and cardboard dogma?
>Buddhism is an exploding nebula! The shattering experience of the speed
>of light.
>Buddhism is the incredible awareness of the ten directions of space.
Sounds to me like Dave has boldly gone where no man has gone before.
>Buddhism is the interconnectedness of all life in a single consciousness.
How would you know if you are unconscious?
>Buddhism is the ultimate science.
>Buddhism is the chemistry of your brain and the storage of every thought,
>feeliong and perception of all beings.
I think this is a contradiction in terms. Wouldn't you have to have a brain
to experience this? You must be relating someone else's experience.
>Cowards will never grasp what buddhism is.
>read your books Bruce. Spin your wheels.
He will...right over you.
Fred
Fred Wolff
>To Bo
>I am professional help.
You're a legend in your own mind.
>This is exactly what I am trying to illustrate.
>You think buddhism is some safe little pansy practice.
Are you implying a connection between Buddhism and horticulture?
>What insight?
You need the definition?
>You want to know what delusion really is? People who pretend they are
>Buddhists and have absolutely NO idea what it is they are practising or
>the nature of the very experience at he root of it.
Are you again speaking from personal experience?
>In my own experience in 1968, prior to reading the lotus Sutra or no
>anything about Nichiren (at least in this life time.) I recapitualated
>the entire thread of the Buddhist Sutras, viewed the Middle path and enter
>the Stupa of taho buddha.
Do you own a dictionary or a spell checker?
>The expereience was real. Nothing like what you may imagine. Yet
>unconsciously you know too. You remember nothing, that is why what i am
>saying is hard to believe and difficult to understand.
>In reality my experience was nothing extraordinary. It is very common to
>say the least.
>Cowards cannot understand.
You are proof of that!
Fred
Rialcnis
To Fred \
From David Cole
Your comments don't have any meaning.
If you want to attack me on some grounds be specific and make sense.
Answer my question.
What is the basis of YOUR practice?
Are you aware Buddhism is based on individuals, mystical, cosmic
experience,
Shakyamuni, Tien-t'ai, Nichiren Daishonin. They all became aware of the
True Law through amazing experience. Then donkeybrains come along and
made their teachings weak-tit and forget the nature of the Buddhist
experience, it becomes dogmas, with some imaginary God-Buddha running
things. That ios not the case in buddhism. You yourself at the moment of
death experience the same thing, but you forget...didn't you. You look
for proof in books and cheap experience rather than seriously persuing the
depths of buddhism.
I come along and relate my experience which actually is the foundation
of my own practice, and you and other ridicule it arrogantly. When in
fact you should be overjoyed!
Think about it silly people.
David Cole.
Rialcnis
To Fred
From David Cole
Fred your a donkeybrain.
You have no idea what buddhism is.
Do you?
Answer honestly to yourself.
Buddhism is not weak prissy cardboard dogma.
What do you think Buddhism is? What is it based on?
You don't know do you?
David Cole
Rialcnis
To Fred
From David Cole
At least be funny if you are trying to be funny.
That was an really old joke. At least be original.
Again, if you have a specific question about something i said ask me.
Are if you disagree with something i am saying regarding Buddhism be
specific.
I am saying now that you guys are trying to turn Buddhism into an IMPOTENT
relgion. That is exactly what you are doing with your own relationship to
Buddhism.
Buddhism is awesome. You need disruptive forces to realize this.
to break the pattern with leads to TINYYANA.
David Cole
Rick A Hukkanen
rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis) writes:
>
>To Bo
>
>From David Cole
>
>it is so glaringly stupid that people are pretending to practice
>Buddhism and have absolutely no idea what it is, or how it came to
>exist.
>You comments are lame and meaningless. You don't have the
>understanding of a gnat. It's not one shoew tapping, it's your brain
>cells dying that's the only sound you are hearing.
>
>Please don't take this as an insult. Take 1200 mcg of LSD after
>fasting for two weeks and call me in the morning.
>
>
>David Cole
Pretty negative, Dave. Ever tried Chanting?
Rick
Rialcnis
Rick,
Rick tells, me "Why don't you try chanting."
I have been invoking the wonderful, mystical law for 27years.
it just so happens that the first time I did correctly, (this lifetime),
was 28 years ago, virtually by accident, while coming on to 6 tablets
(250 mcg. each) of Blue Cheer Lysergic Acid Diethyamide after fasting for
two weeks.
Although I was already a Tibetan style Buddhist, who was following a short
essay on meditation by Chih I, at the time I had not yet read the Lotus
Sutra, I had not heard of Nichiren Daishonin, my brother had given me his
gohonzon and it was on my wall (no butsudan) and I had his Sutra book,
but i was unaware it was any type of buddhism, I just thought it was neat.
The Sutra book seemed to come out of no where, I Chanted
NNNNNAAAAAMMMMMUUUUUU ...............
The whole universe opened up in my third eye and the MIDDLE WAY opened up
and the Stupa of Taho Buddha, which was closed was on the horizon.
Flowers fell from the sky.
two giant Black and Gold Candlestick stood on either side of the middle
path, with Gold Tsuru birds embossed on each.
The culmination of the experience was realizing Honmon and Hon'nin-myo and
knowing the identity and functin of the True Buddha of Kuon Ganjo.
the experience i had was far different than previous Hindu/Christian/lower
Buddhist/zen experiences i had had while involved in serious meditation
for the past 1 and a half years.
I found the Lotus Sutra afterwords and was blown away...HERE IT WAS!!!!
I WASN"T THE ONLY ONE!!! I was very relieved to know this.
When I realized that there was this giant organization who chanted nam
myoho renge kyo, i at first assumed that they must have had the same
experience i had had. It was soon apparent that with the exception of
Toda apparently, there was no one who ever mentioned anything of the kind.
of course i kept my mouth shut....
It takes years to assimilate the experience.
I was disillusioned with the gakkai when i realized that the leaders I had
although apparently sincere seemed to have NO idea WHY they were
practicing. people seemd to take things for granted but their faith
seemed strong. I worried that if in the future if obstacles appeared
would these people who I cared about stay on the right path? Just such a
tragedy occurred with the schism created by mr. Ikeda.
i am not saying, "everybody drop acid." because few would be prepared
anyway, but what i am saying is I am a Witness, perhaps with some
Taho-like function to say, "Yes, that is the way it is...."
I know from my own experience that Nichiren Shoshu and the Dai-Gohonzon
is correct.Naturally I have to speak out now!
Put away your Weak-tit Buddhism.
Thank You
David Cole
I
I
Fred Wolff
>To Fred
>From David Cole
>Fred your a donkeybrain.
>You have no idea what buddhism is.
>Do you?
We must be related somehow....I'm a donkeybrain and you're a horse's ass.
>Answer honestly to yourself.
>Buddhism is not weak prissy cardboard dogma.
>What do you think Buddhism is? What is it based on?
>You don't know do you?
I know what it is NOT....it is not the stuff you are trying to spread.
Fred
Rogowdoc
In article <50vreg$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis)
writes:
Dave, you are leading anyone foolish enough to
listen to you down the path to hell, in this very life. Nichiren Daishonin
himself would tell you to cease and desist.
Mark
Rick A Hukkanen
In <50vreg$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> rial...@aol.com (Rialcnis)
Put away your drugs, you asshole.
Rick
Fred Wolff
>To Fred
>From David Cole
>At least be funny if you are trying to be funny.
>That was an really old joke. At least be original.
It is about as old as the snake oil you are trying to sell. You are not
leading anyone down the correct path at all.
>Again, if you have a specific question about something i said ask me.
>Are if you disagree with something i am saying regarding Buddhism be
>specific.
OK, fair enough. I disagree with everything you are saying about Nichiren's
Buddhism. Since you are putting me in a position to defend myself, how about
we play courtroom? As the defense, the burden of proof is not on me, it is on
you. Show me concrete proof of Nichiren being the True Buddha of the Latter
Day. Show me documented proof that Nichiren created a "Dai Gohonzon" for all
mankind. C'mon, Mr. DA, time to fish or cut bait. And don't give me any crap
about being a donkey brain. Support your position. Show me the proof and I
will come to your door and have you lead me to the temple.
Let's hear it, Dave. Send me copies of the documented proof of Nichiren's
signature on the Dai Gohonzon.
>I am saying now that you guys are trying to turn Buddhism into an
IMPOTENT relgion. That is exactly what you are doing with your own
relationship toBuddhism.
What makes it impotent is chanting to a false object of worship. There is
nothing wrong with my relationship to Buddhism.
>Buddhism is awesome. You need disruptive forces to realize this.
I need disruptive forces like I need a Barium enema. I have you. That is
enough.
>to break the pattern with leads to TINYYANA.
>David Cole
You didn't say "Thank You" to me like you do everyone else....I'm hurt :(
Switch to Kempon Hokke now and avoid the rush!
Fred
Mark Herrick
Rick A Hukkanen wrote:
> Put away your drugs, you asshole.
>
> Rick
Another remarkable example of the high life condition from the SGI and
NSS people.
Wow! Such actual proof!
Keep rubbin' that plank, it sure seems to help. [NOT]
--
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
Mark Herrick
whtl...@nichiren.org
Nichiren Buddhist Fellowship
The Buddha himself seemed to know that Buddhism would never die if it
maintained this pattern of new growth. When someone asked him how a drop
of water could be prevented from ever drying up, he answered, "by
throwing it into the sea."
"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic
religion for the future: it transcends a personal god, avoids dogmas
and theology; it covers both the natural and spiritual, and it is based
on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural
and spiritual, as a meaningful unity."
Einstein
Rialcnis
To Mark
from David Cole
Gee Mark...you are such an expert. Why don't you explain it a little.
Are you questioning my experience and if you are be specific. Exactly
what don't you believe?
David Cole
Bo Fugen
Mark Herrick wrote:
>
> Rick A Hukkanen wrote:
>
> > Put away your drugs, you asshole.
> >
> > Rick
>
> Another remarkable example of the high life condition from the SGI and
> NSS people.
>
> Wow! Such actual proof!
>
> Keep rubbin' that plank, it sure seems to help. [NOT]
I don't think that has anything to do with "life-condition". No one is
"holy-er" than anyone else. We're all common mortals, for buddha's sake!
Bo
Rick A Hukkanen
In <323465...@nichiren.org> Mark Herrick <whtl...@nichiren.org>
writes:
>Rick A Hukkanen wrote:
>
>
>> Put away your drugs, you asshole.
>>
>> Rick
>
>
>Another remarkable example of the high life condition from the SGI and
>NSS people.
>
>Wow! Such actual proof!
>
>Keep rubbin' that plank, it sure seems to help. [NOT]
>
Mark! You finally found something you could reply to. I'm so pleased to
have drawn you out of hiding.
Rick
Nunset
To fred
From David Cole
Well, Fred again, no substance to your comments, just cute litle
slanders.
You said thew same thing about the Lotus Sutra and left the
ceremony angry.
You also were there in the presense of the Daishonin and went
away making stupid remarks.
If you don't know what Buddhism is, how would you know what it is
not?
David Cole
--
donkeyheads of the saha world unite!!!
jonpetry
David:
Lots of people have experiences. Jimmy Swaggart and Pat Robertson have them all the
time, being washed in the blood of Jeeeeeeeeezus and all. Most people have them without
the necessity of inducing a chemically influenced state. Nichiren talked about faith,
practice and study but you seem to value your drug induced dreams much more.
Personally I tend to view any such drug related experiences with a great deal of
suspicion, particularly when it is westerners relating them. Your experience, while
interesting from a pathological point of view, has no self validation and is suspect. I
am sorry if this upsets you but it is the simple truth. You have wandered off on a side
path and need to get back on the right one before you are able to adequately and
appropriately interpret the true import of the Lotus Sutra and the teachings of
Nichiren.
Nunset
To Rick
From David Cole
The LSD was 28 years ago. It's no surprise to me that people
call LSD a "drug." Drugs are Cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine,
methadrine, etc.
LSD is a substance which causes a temporary change in the brain
chemistry which causes the same thing to happen that happens to
people performing long-term meditation and fasting, except muvch
more effective. Although this is not politically correct to say.
The amazing thing is that the sudden interest in oriental
religion and philosophy which began mostly in the 60's in this
country can be attributed to the disruptive force LSD provided a
generation in this country.
In japan, the disruptive force was the Kanto Earthquake and then
a couple of Nuclear Bombs.
In ancient religion, there was Soma and Amrita, called "heavenly
Nectar," The Daishonin mentions this in a number of places.
The Vedas of course center around the use of Soma.
And is related to the "food"of the Shoten Zenjin. It's Mystical.
Kenneth W. Burchell
In article <323618...@slip.net>, jonpetry <jonp...@slip.net> wrote:
> David:
>snip< arrogant,presumptuous, judgemental material >snip>
> Your experience, while
> interesting from a pathological point of view, has no self validation
and is suspect. I
> am sorry if this upsets you but it is the simple truth. You have
wandered off on a side
> path and need to get back on the right one before you are able to
adequately and
> appropriately interpret the true import of the Lotus Sutra and the
teachings of
> Nichiren.
Jon, I've seen some good posts by you from time to time. This isn't one of them.
You slam Bratcher for being a homophobe. Now you show yourself to be what?
A pharmaphobe? An herbaphobe? A mycophobe?
It's not your place to denigrate his life-experience. If your practice
doesn't produce a more generous character than that it can't be working
very well.
--
Ken Burchell
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price on its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated" Thomas Paine
Information on Nichiren's True Buddhism:
http://www.primenet.com/~martman/ns.html
http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~glenz/shoshu.html
http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/jqpublic/lectures1.html
Information on Thomas Paine:
http://www.mediapro.net/cdadesign/paine
Bruce Maltz
CAN WE PLEASE CHANGE THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD...
OR START A NEW ONE.
Bruce
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
To access the TRUE AUTHENTIC teachings of
Kempon Hokke Shu
Nichiren Daishonin & Shakyamuni
http://www.cris.com/~fujufuse/hokkekai.htm
(c) Hokke Kai International 1996
Rialcnis
To Fred
From David Cole
I didn't NOT say thank you on purpose. Sometimes I don't I can't predict
when it's random.
You have to realize that I am saying that documentation is not enough to
prove Buddhism. Stop loking for documentation. No doubt you owe total
appreciation to Nichiren Shoshu for passing this Law across time. Do you
think that after an earthquake destroys tokyo and two atomic bombs hit
major cities, that afterwords the wrong sect would spread?
The Proof you are looking for is far more amazing and convincing then any
amount of documentation. You have the proof inside your body. You can
tap into this proof. It will NEVER be proved with documentation alone.
If it could it would be weak-tit Buddhism.
Think. Don't you see how Nichiren Shoshu alone has faced almost unanimous
criticism from the other sects while most of them get along tolerantly?
That is because they have the wrong idea entirely. This is mappo. YThe
world is emersed in horrible suffering and people are desparate! There is
misery everywhere. Evil people abound. Evil is the majority not the
exception. Without Nichiren Shoshu and the Sokagakkai. the other
Nichiren Sects would die and without Nichiren Shoshu, the Sokagakkai will
die!
If you want proof you will have to get far more serious about dealing with
the real issues. The first issue I think you should deal with is> "Where
does Buddhism come from and what is the nature of the mystical experiences
of Shakyamuni, Tientai and Nichiren Daishonin?"
I will talk to you about this if you want, but if you are going to recite
the minobumantra then there is nothing I can do for you. The priests that
discarde the dpth of the Daishonin's Buddhism and slandered Nikko and made
uip these stupid stories and twisted idea, are total and complete
slanderers and are merely fulfillinf the prophecies in the Sutra and the
words of the Daishonin.
I am saying that I personally have my own proof of Nichiren Shoshu and it
is based on experience and Objectivity as well as my own subjective
understanding.
I am a sceptical sciene oriented person. Without the right kind of proof
I would not believe. I believe i am far more sceptical type of person
then you or bruce or the marks or the others who rag and ragagainst the
holders of the Supreme Lifeblood.
I knew because of a mystical thing that happened that i can remeber.
Something i realized i experience many time before. So did you! You just
don't remeber! I am not saying i am special in any way. But as a simple
donkeybrain person and can be witness to the true law. And I can tell you
that you can also. To me this is a significant thing we need in this
horrible world. True Proof of the sole protcol of the Dai-Gohonzon.
When I think of how stupid the slanders are about the Dai-Gohonzon and the
sheer ignorance and stupidity in forgetting and can only think of my own
stupidity when I too had forgotten. So I remeber the shame of forgetting.
It is actually funny when you realize how stupid you are! I laughed with
shame. so will you be will you remeber later that is the question and I
think fundamental to the issue of slander. Forgetting destroys faith and
slander destroys the memory of the True Law and the actual identity of the
True Buddha.
THANK You
David Cole
Michael Bowman
In <50mtrn$p...@herald.concentric.net> fuju...@cris.com (Warren Peace)
writes:
>
>In article <50m4rq$q...@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, wt...@ix.netcom.com
(Michael Bowman) wrote:
>>But it exists, in Nikko Shonin's own hand, at Taisekiji. If you want
>>to see it, I suggest you contact your nearest Nichiren Shoshu
>>priest.
>
>Like I am going to wait for you to give me this idea....NOT
>I have already done this. The document is not at Taisekiji
>but at another Temple, and was only recently discovered,
>and it is not in Nikko's handwriting.
Sorry for the delay in replying. Access problems, now resolved, at
least for now.
So what exactly is the source for your inside information?
>>Taisekiji also possesses two Gohonzons inscribed by Nikko Shonin in
>>the later years of his life which proclaim Nichimoku Shonin as his
>>true disciple and a master at remonstrating to the throne, which
>>contradicts your incessant assertions that Nikko Shonin left
>>Taisekiji in a huff, never to return.
>
>No, it doesn't.
>Nichimoku followed Nikko to the Fuji area,
>and settling at Taisekiji.
>Nikko left and never Never NEver NEVer NEVER returned.
>You would think that before he died he would want to
>see the so-called DaiGohonzon wouldn't you?
Bruce, come on. While I'll never publicly post Stephanie's private
e-mails to me, she once mentioned the Gohonzon in question, and said,
in effect, that she had no explanation for the existence of this
Gohonzon.
Omosu, now known as Honmonji (btw, Byakuren Ajari Nikko never referred
to it as such - prove me wrong) is minutes away from Taisekiji on foot.
What proof do you have that he left, never to return?
>
>I see from your anger that I am tapping into your false belief system,
>don't get mad at me, I have not lied to you,
>Taisekiji has.
>
>Bruce
If you perceive my prior post as having been made in anger, I can only
suggest that perhaps you are reading it based upon your present
life-condition, and, like Daisaku habitually does, are merely
projecting your own life-condition upon what you see, in the assumption
that since you think and act in a certain way, then everyone else must
also think and act with that same agenda.
Mike
jonpetry
Kenneth W. Burchell wrote:
>
> In article <323618...@slip.net>, jonpetry <jonp...@slip.net> wrote:
>
> > David:
> >snip< arrogant,presumptuous, judgemental material >snip>
>
> > Your experience, while
> > interesting from a pathological point of view, has no self validation
> and is suspect. I
> > am sorry if this upsets you but it is the simple truth. You have
> wandered off on a side
> > path and need to get back on the right one before you are able to
> adequately and
> > appropriately interpret the true import of the Lotus Sutra and the
> teachings of
> > Nichiren.
>
> Jon, I've seen some good posts by you from time to time. This isn't one of them.
> You slam Bratcher for being a homophobe. Now you show yourself to be what?
> A pharmaphobe? An herbaphobe? A mycophobe?
>
> It's not your place to denigrate his life-experience. If your practice
> doesn't produce a more generous character than that it can't be working
> very well.
>
> --
> Ken Burchell
>
Sorry Ken but I happen to feel that enlightenment doesn't come out of the ingestion of
chemical substances. David ignores all that Nichiren says and did in his lifetime and
then states that he knows what is right because he ingested some LSD and had an
interesting experience. There is great danger in that and it seems to me that it is
indicative of a rather silly american practice of trying to shortcut everything.
"Instant enlightenment, just add LSD and stand back." it demeans everything that
Nichiren stood for and imo it demeans all Nichiren Buddhists including the NST.
Fred Wolff
>To Fred
>From David Cole
>I didn't NOT say thank you on purpose. Sometimes I don't I can't predict
>when it's random.
No big thing.
>You have to realize that I am saying that documentation is not enough to
>prove Buddhism. Stop loking for documentation. No doubt you owe total
>appreciation to Nichiren Shoshu for passing this Law across time. Do you
>think that after an earthquake destroys tokyo and two atomic bombs hit
>major cities, that afterwords the wrong sect would spread?
Agreed. Documentation is not enough. Documentation serves a purpose, but
experience is the ultimate proof. Earthquakes and destruction from atomic
blasts have nothing to do with the right or wrong sect spreading its
teachings. But, I understand what it is you are trying to bring out.
>The Proof you are looking for is far more amazing and convincing then any
>amount of documentation. You have the proof inside your body. You can
>tap into this proof. It will NEVER be proved with documentation alone.
>If it could it would be weak-tit Buddhism.
Again, I agree. Do not look without for what is already within. However,
certain things can be proven with documentation. With respect to the
Dai-Gohonzon, maybe there was written proof that it was inscribed by Nichiren;
it could have been lost or destroyed. I would think, though, that a document
of such extreme importance would have been guarded with gret care and
reverence. However, it is difficult the accept the authenticity of something
when recognized experts have offered what appears to be proof to the contrary.
>Think. Don't you see how Nichiren Shoshu alone has faced almost unanimous
>criticism from the other sects while most of them get along tolerantly?
So has Soka Gakkai, the Zen sects, Roman Catholicism and Islam.
As it is approaching time to get ready for work, I will end this for the
moment but will complete my response later today.
Thank YOU.
Fred
Nunset
To Jon
From David Cole
You are making major assumptions from a point of view that is not
fully informed. The assumptions about me and the assumptions you
are making about Buddhism.
As far as jimmy Swaggert etc. As i said there are many levels of
experience imbedded in our lives. As i said one can
recapitualate all these levels, depending upon the object of
worship at each stage, ultimately they are all stages of
Buddhism. the experience i had, was the Lotus Sutra experience.
Is that what you are calling "pathological"?
When I joined Nichiren Shoshu, I had looked them up in the phone
book and went down to get gojukai at Joint HDQ on beach not a
part of any group, this because of my experience. I had been
told about Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, receiving slips of paper on three
occasions, but strangly no one had told me it was Buddhism--which
I was already heavily involved with. I even had my brother's
gohonzon on my wall but wasn' really aware it was Buddhism at the
time, because i was into tibetan, Chih I and Zen.
more later.....Thank You David Cole
jonpetry
Nunset wrote:
>
> To Jon
> from David Cole
>
> When you say , "you have wandered off ...." You are making a
> statement out of ignorance. You don't really know me or what I
> know and naturally you are suspicious because that is the nature
> of humankind in mappo.
I can only evaluate what I have seen you post on the newsgroup. If you have chosen to
present yourself in this fashion then that is your choice. Nichiren spoke of faith,
practice and study not LSD or other chemicals that alter one's perception. I do have an
inherent distrust of anyone who has any experience under the influence of any mind
altering substance and then proclaims that experience to be "true". I have some
knowledge of this and it is true that in certain cultures some different types of
substances are used to provoke a spiritual state. This is a far cry from the
experience you cited.
> You use the word "pathological" about the
> exp. I am relating. and "drug experience" what I am relating is
> neither. Granted a drug was involved (remember this was 1968),
> but don't be so closed minded to think that you really understand
> Buddhism through what is just political correctness of society or
> the constant anti-drug brainwashing we all get daily.
Now who is making assumptions? Pathological is a word that I use to describe some of
the disjointed ramblings you have indulged in here in the newsgroup. I have no position
on drugs per se and [if you knew me you would hardly say that I was indulging in
political correctness]. Personally I strongly disagree with the drug hysteria that has
been whipped up in this country. My focus is really quite narrow.
> There is
> more to it than that. I am not in favor of bad drugs. Nor am i
> in favor of use of hallucinogens by the un prepared, nor do i use
> them now. But I know that they are amazing keys to life and I
> think that eventually people will begin to study them once again
> from a buddhist perspective openly.Don't be closed minded. There
> are characters on the Gohonzon whose original existence in the
> Vedas revolved areound the use of Soma and Amrita. There is more
> to this then a closed mind will understand. I have spent many
> years researching these subject and have only related a tiny bit
> of what I understand about this and about my experience. I may
> relate more if the right questions are asked.
> Thank You, David Cole
> I personally do not care what research you have or have not done concerning drugs.
Tricycle Magazine just did an issue concerning this issue and I would assume that you
have read it. My concern is westerners who treat drugs as a panacea for all ills,
physical and spiritual. Enlightenment does not come out of a testube or smoke inhaled
from a joint. You are not a member of the cultures which have incorporated these types
of practices into their cultures and used them for centuries, understanding their
limitations. While your experiences are interesting on a sociological level, they have
little value when it comes to Buddhism.
Nunset
To Jon
from David Cole
When you say , "you have wandered off ...." You are making a
statement out of ignorance. You don't really know me or what I
know and naturally you are suspicious because that is the nature
of humankind in mappo. You use the word "pathological" about the
exp. I am relating. and "drug experience" what I am relating is
neither. Granted a drug was involved (remember this was 1968),
but don't be so closed minded to think that you really understand
Buddhism through what is just political correctness of society or
the constant anti-drug brainwashing we all get daily. There is
more to it than that. I am not in favor of bad drugs. Nor am i
in favor of use of hallucinogens by the un prepared, nor do i use
them now. But I know that they are amazing keys to life and I
think that eventually people will begin to study them once again
from a buddhist perspective openly.Don't be closed minded. There
are characters on the Gohonzon whose original existence in the
Vedas revolved areound the use of Soma and Amrita. There is more
to this then a closed mind will understand. I have spent many
years researching these subject and have only related a tiny bit
of what I understand about this and about my experience. I may
relate more if the right questions are asked.
Thank You, David Cole
--
Rialcnis
To Jon
From David Cole
re: your reply to Ken:
Jon, you are saying it is demeaning to the Daishonin's Buddhism to mention
drug experiences and enlightenment together.
See, here is where you are relying on many years of social brainwashing
rather than facts or science, or Buddhism for that matter.
I think you must be totally unaware of the reality of the fact, that
certain substances like LSD, is not like a drug to get "high" on although
some dorky people try to. Part of me feels a shortcut is needed in Mappo.
it is Buddhas mercy. realize how the big explosion of interest in
oriental religion in this country in the 1960's was directly related to
LSD usage. Do you understand this/
It is not a question of a shortcut to enligtewnment---there is NO SHORCUT,
I AGREE. But in that sense there is no shortcut to UNITY and KOSEN RUFU.
Without which there is no real enlightenment by my definition. What could
helkp, is a basic awareness of the depths of an individuals life and how
it is forever intertwined with the Mystical Law.
The Daishonin experienced much suffering, originally meditating severely
in a cave for 49 days, following tien-t'ais practice. He was also a
sickly person as a child and was said to be in some kind of swoon when he
talked to bodhisattva Kokuzo. Experiences of ALTERED STATES of
consciousness are related to changes in the brain chemistry and the
person's ichinen and faith. Thius happens on many different levels and
when we start getting into strictly Buddhist expereinces we begin to see
how the statges of sutras themselves refer to stages of realization and
Experience, culminating in the experience of the Lotus Sutra and
especially in the honmon chapter and the meaning of the original Buddha of
Kuon ganjo.
The True Buddha is not a being in space on a throne or a enrgy force or
anything like that. It is very personal. The daishonin knew this.
The entire Buddhism of shakyamuni is extinct. This is clear when you
witness the experience. The temples are barren the people have departed
to other lands and the Stupa of Taho Buddha is closed forever.
I got off the point of this post but let me say that I am always amazed at
how people can be buddhist or at least say they are buddhists and not
realize that the basis of Buddhism is mystical awakenings.
Believe me it no more a shortcut than DEATH is a shortcut!!!
Think about it.
David Cole
Rialcnis
To Jon
From David Cole
Again you are failing to understand.
LEt me ask you directly about some of these points i am making. Are awae
that Taishaku, Bonton and other characters which appear on the Gohonzon
are beings who supposedly fought a huge cosmic battle to possess the SOMA
and AMRITA?
Are you aware that the Daishonin refers to Amrita in a number of Goshos.
Are you aware the daishonin had a number of key mystical expoeriences in
his life that appeared during conditions of altered consciousness of one
sort or another.
Whether it is austerities, food after a long fast, soma, LSD or just
plain traumatic suffeing or a near death experience. people can
experience an altered state of awareness. Most of these experiences are
"garden variety" and they range from simple, oneness with "god" or oneness
with nature, or realization of transiency, or awareness of past present
and future, or out of body experience, or reliving a past life or various
other phenomena whcih are neither dreams or imagination. They occur at
different times to different people for different reasons. DEATH BIRTH
AND the MIDDLE WAY and the Ceremony in the air however, are expereinces in
common we forget and can remeber if we experience a disruptive force, Toda
in jail, etc.
If you realize what I am saying than you should realize that what i am
really offering you is concrete knowledge of Nichiren Shoshu from an
objective standpoint.
This is what I want to convey. Ego stands in the way, I undserstand this.
Sorry, but if you wish to be so pretend knowledgable as you act in your
posts and you wish not to use any shortcuts, then I believe you better bow
down to the true Gohonzon at Taisekiji and chant with every bit of your
life until your false self is gone and all that you are is pure faith,
willing to give your whole life for Kosen Rufu.
If you cannot do this you have no faith and NO shortcut will work for you
either!
David Cole
Ipsissimus
Rialcnis wrote:
> it is Buddhas mercy. realize how the big explosion of interest in
> oriental religion in this country in the 1960's was directly related to
> LSD usage. Do you understand this/
I think not.
LSD did not really kick off until the early 60's whereas the interest
in Eastern religion was already established.
See writings of Jack Kerouac and Alan Watts for examples.
Rialcnis
Right Julian. And Alan Watts and Keroac weren't into drugs?
there are numerous autobiographical accounts.
David Cole
JulianLZB87
Rialcnis wrote:
>
> Right Julian. And Alan Watts and Keroac weren't into drugs?
They certainly were. Though Kerouac was non-psychedelics I believe.
I wouldnt be suprised if Nichiren knew a thing or two about
Medecin either. Shijo Kingo certainly dabbled.
fu...@sprynet.com
Rialcnis wrote:
>
> Right Julian. And Alan Watts and Keroac weren't into drugs?
>
>
> David Cole
I'm not sure about Kerouac, but Watts committed suiside.
Not a happy-end.
Bo
JulianLZB87
fu...@sprynet.com wrote:
> I'm not sure about Kerouac, but Watts committed suiside.
> Not a happy-end.
I quite like the idea of taking my own life.
Certainly more than accidental death or being murdered or being
dumped in an old folks home.
There is even some software to ease the processs although I am
not sure if it runs on windows 3.1.1 in which case I'll have to wait
a while yet.
PS. I don't think the link between the use of psychedelics and
suicide is particularly strong.
Michael Bowman
In <3254EE...@js.btx400.co.uk> JulianLZB87
<Julian.S...@atropose.blk.js.com> writes:
>
>fu...@sprynet.com wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure about Kerouac, but Watts committed suiside.
>> Not a happy-end.
>
>I quite like the idea of taking my own life.
(snip)
Rev. Kawabe addressed this issue a couple weeks ago.
He said, in effect, that anyone who takes his/her own life is admitting
that they cannot handle the responsibilities of being born as a human,
and hence, relinquish the right to do so.
He went on to say that unless someone offered serious prayers for that
person's enlightenment, it would be extremely difficult for that person
to be born as a human being in the future.
Mike