SGI-USA and NST Hokkeko Get-together
susieh
My name is Susanne Harris and I would like to tell you part of what's
behind this gathering.
I have been a member of the SGI (NSA) for 35 years. Throughout those
years, I was fortunate to have developed warm friendships with Don
Mentzer, Kurt Triffet, Mike Chacamaty, Sofia Faller, Mike Robbins and
many other wonderful folks who have chosen to practice with NST.
From 1990 to 1999 I battled an illness and was completely unaware of
whatever was going on between our two orgs. When I returned to the
practice in 1999, I was HORRIFIED, HUMILIATED AND INCENSED at the way
my friends in NST had been treated. From that point on I stood alone
and fought the behavior of the Soka Spirit lunatics. Week after week
I beat on my leaders with the following message: "These are
intelligent respectworthy people who have made a choice. We need to
embrace them as eternal friends and recognize that we have contributed
to their decision. The badgering, the criticism, and our obnoxious
self-righteousness must stop."
I was fortunate to have found an ally in Soka Spririt leader Bruce
Barnes. This reception is the culmination of four years of
gut-wrenching effort on our part to build a bridge... to heal our
wounds.
Those of you who know me know that while I am loyal to the SGI, I am
an outspoken critic of the SGI. Further, my behavior has never ever
contradicted my position on the NST issue.
Please join us in what should be an atmosphere of mutual respect and
compassion. It's a beginning.
With love, Susanne
dc
With love, Susanne<<<<<<<<<<<<
Very good Suzanne. I hope that something good will come of this gathering.
Plese invite the local Priests, I think that is essential. The
self-righteousness on both sides has been a mirror image.
dc
Cody
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
The beginning of what? Ikeda is finally going to take his getting fired like
a man and become a plain member and join the Hokkeko? Is he - and you for
indirectly for supporting it - going to apologize for the Seattle Lie, the
airbrushed photos, the Sho Hondo lie, etc.?
As it is an indisputable fact that SGI is not Buddhism, why would any
Hokkeko member want to attend this "gathering"?
Your statement, "atmosphere of mutual respect and compassion" is a bit
facetous when you consider the official lies that Ikeda and his minions have
publically declared in their publications.
As far as Bruce Barnes is concerned, I have spoken to some SGI members and
Mr Barnes is known for putting down and lying about Nichiren Shoshu.
I can't help but feel that this "gathering" is a trap but it might be a good
thing to go, video tape it, and put the "gathering" on the Internet for all
to see.
Cody
Cody
"dc" <dc...@ojai.net> wrote in message
news:K7hea.35$TW2....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
You're full of it, Cole, as usual. SGI lied about us. The stalked us. Etc.
And you think that SGI should be the one to reunite us? You really are a
traitor. Reunification with SGI is about as necessary as a fish needing a
bicycle.
Cody
Foon
> Dear NST friends,
> snip <
> Please join us in what should be an atmosphere of mutual respect and
> compassion. It's a beginning.
>
> With love, Susanne
Susanne,
Although we respect the potential Buddha nature of all life, the SGI (as a chartered lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu) was duly and properly ordered to disband many years ago. Since some few people still refuse to follow that instruction, they have harmed themselves and are burning their seeds of enlightenment. This is a very sad fact. Nonetheless, we cannot consort with such slanderers in any social pretext without becoming complicit in their slander.
We'd each be glad to help you overcome the SGI social addiction and return home to True Buddhism, but we won't play ecumenical games with you and thereby mix your sand with our rice, if you understand.
I'm not being glib or smarmy here. We all just feel such pity for you folks, and we have no choice but to tell you the truth.
Here's hoping that you will remember the concepts of "returning to the prime point" and "starting anew every moment" which are required in order to return home. We've all done it, and I'm sure you can too. :)
Take care,
- Larry Crimmins, Phoenix, USA
dc
> snip <
Susanne,
The Prime Point in Buddhism is not bowing down to any person....not Ikeda,
Not Nikken. Not bowing down to any organization, Not SGI not NST.
The Prime Point of Buddhism is not a faked lineage, not the Three
Presidents.
The Prime Point of Buddhism is not Lip Service to respecting Buddhas within
all people.
The Prime Point of Buddhism is to toss aside all the obstacle to Itai
Doshin, not to build up more obstacles with self-righteous proclamations of
gang loyalty.
Yes Larry, you are being "glib and swarmy" you even knew thats what you
were doing, for you named it yourself.
I am really ashamed of all the gang Buddhists. You are the laughingstock of
Buddhism.
dc
Cody
So sayeth the Great White Hope who thinks he is the only one who knows
anything about Nichiren Buddhism. So sayeth the man who has burned his
bridges with every single friend he has ever had. You have a lot of gall to
be talking about Itai Dosshin.
Cody
susieh
The local priests are very welcome.
Susanne
susieh
Dear Cody,
There are two reasons why I don't practice with the Temple: (1) I have
the Gohonzon because of the efforts of the pioneer SGI members and
unfortunately you don't get to choose your family; (2) I am extremely
critical of the SGI and while my outspoken rebel style can be
extremely honest and is often perceived as offensive, NOWADAYS they
listen. I have on 2 occasions confronted Pres. Ikeda publicly
regarding certain issues I have disagreed with. My key issue is that
the leaders exist for the sake of the members and when they step out
of line, believe me they hear about it. SO we're having this
get-together... please attend!
Susanne
Cody
"susieh" wrote
> "Cody" wrote
> > "dc" <dc...@ojai.net> wrote
Oh, so for the sake of your "family" you "have" to practise with the non
Buddhist SGI Ikeda cult. Do they have you chained up or something? Those
"pioneer SGI members" were first and foremost Nichiren Shoshu members. Now
they are cult members who are burning the seeds of Buddhahood. Why can't SGI
cult members realise that SGI was a lay organization, not the religion?
> (2) I am extremely
> critical of the SGI and while my outspoken rebel style can be
> extremely honest and is often perceived as offensive, NOWADAYS they
> listen. I have on 2 occasions confronted Pres. Ikeda publicly
> regarding certain issues I have disagreed with. My key issue is that
> the leaders exist for the sake of the members and when they step out
> of line, believe me they hear about it.
Why do you waste your time? Ikeda's SGI cult will continue to be his cult
and do whatever they want and, trust me, they don't care what you think.
SO we're having this
> get-together... please attend!
>
> Susanne
Send me the round trip ticket from Valencia, Spain to LA and I will consider
it.
Heh
Cody
susieh
Dear Larry,
Thank you for for your thoughtful and humanistic response. In my book
the jury's still out on which side is right or wrong. I found this
quote in a mundane layman's guide to Buddhism and for me it rings
true.
"Don't believe a teaching just because you heard it from a man who's
supposed to be holy, or because it's contained in a book supposed to
be holy, or because all your friends and neighbors believe it. But
whatever you've observed and analyzed
yourself and found to be reasonable and good, then accept that and put
it into practice."
-- The Buddha
Susanne
susieh
> "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> As far as Bruce Barnes is concerned, I have spoken to some SGI members and
> Mr Barnes is known for putting down and lying about Nichiren Shoshu.
>
> Cody
Cody,
I can't speak for Bruce or his position. By referring to him as an
"ally" I meant that he was open to different point-of-view.
Susanne
Cody
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
>
> Dear Larry,
>
> Thank you for for your thoughtful and humanistic response. In my book
> the jury's still out on which side is right or wrong.
>
LOL! Are you blind? Deaf?
Cody
Cody
LOL!
Sure. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. He is the head of
SGI's LA SS movement. This is the part of your org. that lies, cheats,
airbrushes photos, etc. I notice that that the INjustice Chronical is still
being sent every week with Ikeda's lies and hate messages. We are painfully
aware of what the SS' point-of-view is.
Either you are very naive or you're up to no good with this "gathering".
Cody
Xxxoooxxxooo123
From: "Cody" Iwant...@atall.com
Date: 2013Mar2003 3:15 AM
Message-id: <wphea.2448$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>Then please stay away Cody. This will happen whether you like it or not.
>>
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <1ohea.2447$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
Cody
>
>Why be nasty Cody? If your not interested and clearly you are not why not
just say so and be done with it? Do you think it's easy for Susanne and Bruce
to put this together and invite people like you who are so hateful? I think
it's a wonderful idea and will be chanting for the complete success of this
event. The two sides need to learn to "live together" and get along. This
divorce has not been a positive force for Kosen Rufu and now, more than ever,
we need to work together to accomplish our mutual goal of kosen rufu. I hope
the local priests do come and I am quite sure there will be some Hokkeko
members there as well.
>>
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Date: 2013Mar2003 8:09 AM
Message-id: <f55158c7.03032...@posting.google.com>
Dear Larry,
Susanne
>
>Excellent quote Susanne. Thank you for sharing.
>>
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Date: 2013Mar2003 8:30 AM
Message-id: <t0mea.2492$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>Why must you insult Susanne Cody? You don't even know her? Are you feeling
threatned by this get together? Afraid the power of the people might put an
end finally to the b.s.?
>>
Cody
"Xxxoooxxxooo123" <xxxooox...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030320114606...@mb-fg.aol.com...
Don't worry, I am not going to spend my money on a plane ticket to go to a
meeting and watch SGI cult members lie.
Cody
Cody
Truth hurts, eh?
If your not interested and clearly you are not why not
> just say so and be done with it? <<
I will post whatever and whenever I want to.
> Do you think it's easy for Susanne and Bruce
> to put this together and invite people like you who are so hateful?<
Projecting again?
> I think
> it's a wonderful idea and will be chanting for the complete success of
this
> event. <
Success? The only "success" would be if the SGI was disbanded and the SGI
members come back home to True Buddhism, a goal I doubt very seriously this
gathering is about.
> The two sides need to learn to "live together" and get along. <
No, SGI needs to learn not to lie about us and persecute us.
> This
> divorce <
What divorce? Ikeda reacted to having been fired like a spoiled brat.
> has not been a positive force for Kosen Rufu and now, more than ever,
> we need to work together to accomplish our mutual goal of kosen rufu.<
I hate to break the news to you but the SGI Ikeda cult is the antithesis of
kosen rufu.
> I hope
> the local priests do come and I am quite sure there will be some Hokkeko
> members there as well.
What for? SS has clearly stated its goal: destroy Nichiren Shoshu.
I wouldn't recommend that any Hokkeko member go.
Cody
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <Prmea.2496$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event? Why do
you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know Susanne
and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart and a
pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would like
nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of Kosen-Rufu.
Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
communication between us and bridge the gaps.
>>
Cody
LOL! You're joking, right?
> Why do
> you attack?<
Truth hurts, eh?
> Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know Susanne
> and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart and
a
> pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would like
> nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of
Kosen-Rufu.
The ONLY way for you to do that is to quit the SGI Ikeda cult and start
practising True Buddhism again with Nichiren Shoshu.
> Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> communication between us and bridge the gaps.
ONE side - SGI - has made mistakes and these "mistakes" were on purpose.
Cody
Cody
Er, I do know her from her anti NST posts on the Internet. I didn't insult
her. The fact that she came up with such a lie made me post like that.
Cody
Gina
Cody and David Cole that I would feel much more secure in attending an SGI
event if I knew for sure that the local priest would be there. Will Mr.
Robbins be attending?
I do also not completely trust the sincerity of this event since it is being
sponsored by Soka Spirit. I too have read the Justice Chronicle along with
some of your posts, and Bruce Barnes' posts on the SGI Reform boards when
you both were posting there.
Obviously (to me anyway) the entire purpose of your meeting is to try to get
Hokkeko members *back* to SGI, and I have not read anything else that would
convince me that this is not the case.
I have many friends in SGI, but am quite happy with my religion.
Gina
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote in message
news:f55158c7.03032...@posting.google.com...
Pat
>
> ONE side - SGI - has made mistakes and these "mistakes" were on purpose.
>
> Cody
>
No, Cody, both sides have made mistakes. The following were all actions by
your High Priest:
- Forbid priests to criticize the Sokagakkai
- Punished the priests who insisted in (correctly, in retrospect)
criticizing the Sokagakkai
- Required overseas believers to join Sokagakkai, rather than belong solely
to the temple or another lay organization
- Forbade overseas, non-Gakkai believers to go on Tozan
- Reinstated Daisaku Ikeda as Sokoto
- Ordained numerous adult Sokagakkai members as Nichiren Shoshu priests, and
the list goes on.
Pat
Cody
"Pat" <Sun_D...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OTmea.20$Bf...@news1.west.cox.net...
> "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message
> news:eFmea.2499$qF6.2...@news.ono.com...
> >
> > ONE side - SGI - has made mistakes and these "mistakes" were on purpose.
> >
> > Cody
> >
>
> No, Cody, both sides have made mistakes. The following were all actions by
> your High Priest:
>
> - Forbid priests to criticize the Sokagakkai
He had hopes that the Soka Gakkai would behave themselves. When he found out
they couldn't, he took appropriate action.
> - Punished the priests who insisted in (correctly, in retrospect)
> criticizing the Sokagakkai
See above.
> - Required overseas believers to join Sokagakkai, rather than belong
solely
> to the temple or another lay organization
What difference did that make then? Nonetheless, I knew Danto members back
in the 70s who were not members of SGI or NSA.
> - Forbade overseas, non-Gakkai believers to go on Tozan
Untrue. These same people went on Tozan.
> - Reinstated Daisaku Ikeda as Sokoto
A mistake that he later corrected.
> - Ordained numerous adult Sokagakkai members as Nichiren Shoshu priests,
and
> the list goes on.
>
> Pat
That was merely to make it easier for people to have Buddhist weddings and
administrative tasks. No one considered them to be priests. I was married by
Ted Osaki who was "ordained" but only because there were no priests
available in DC at that time.
Cody
Cashjlac
Message-id: <GJmea.2500$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>Er, you did insult her. Are you blind? Deaf? What is that? Love talk?
Susanne whom I know from various activities over the years is a very nice and
sincere woman. She doesn't deserve to be spoken to or about the way you are.
But then, you don't much care about anyone else do you.?
>>
Pat
>
> "Pat" <Sun_D...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:OTmea.20$Bf...@news1.west.cox.net...
> > "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message
> > news:eFmea.2499$qF6.2...@news.ono.com...
> > >
> > > ONE side - SGI - has made mistakes and these "mistakes" were on
purpose.
> > >
> > > Cody
> > >
> >
> > No, Cody, both sides have made mistakes. The following were all actions
by
> > your High Priest:
> >
> > - Forbid priests to criticize the Sokagakkai
>
> He had hopes that the Soka Gakkai would behave themselves. When he found
out
> they couldn't, he took appropriate action.
>
> > - Punished the priests who insisted in (correctly, in retrospect)
> > criticizing the Sokagakkai
It took TEN years to realize the gakkai wouldn't "behave themselves"? Or did
it take ten years to prepare financially to split?
> > - Required overseas believers to join Sokagakkai, rather than belong
> solely
> > to the temple or another lay organization
>
> What difference did that make then? Nonetheless, I knew Danto members back
> in the 70s who were not members of SGI or NSA.
>
> > - Forbade overseas, non-Gakkai believers to go on Tozan
>
> Untrue. These same people went on Tozan.
>
> > - Reinstated Daisaku Ikeda as Sokoto
>
> A mistake that he later corrected.
see above
> > - Ordained numerous adult Sokagakkai members as Nichiren Shoshu priests,
> >
> > Pat
>
> That was merely to make it easier for people to have Buddhist weddings and
> administrative tasks. No one considered them to be priests. I was married
by
> Ted Osaki who was "ordained" but only because there were no priests
> available in DC at that time.
>
> Cody
Actually, there were many adult Sokagakkai members ordained after the split
to make up for the loss of 200 priests excommunicated by Rev. Abe
Pat
Cody
> "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message
> news:D2nea.2513$qF6.2...@news.ono.com...
> >
> > "Pat" <Sun_D...@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:OTmea.20$Bf...@news1.west.cox.net...
> > > "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message
> > > news:eFmea.2499$qF6.2...@news.ono.com...
> > > >
> > > > ONE side - SGI - has made mistakes and these "mistakes" were on
> purpose.
> > > >
> > > > Cody
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, Cody, both sides have made mistakes. The following were all
actions
> by
> > > your High Priest:
> > >
> > > - Forbid priests to criticize the Sokagakkai
> >
> > He had hopes that the Soka Gakkai would behave themselves. When he found
> out
> > they couldn't, he took appropriate action.
> >
> > > - Punished the priests who insisted in (correctly, in retrospect)
> > > criticizing the Sokagakkai
>
> It took TEN years to realize the gakkai wouldn't "behave themselves"? Or
did
> it take ten years to prepare financially to split?
I guess he had more patience that the Shoshinkai. I would say he waited that
long out of consideration for the members.
I thought you were talking about before the split. I don't know much about
that, sorry, other than many of them went back to the Gakkai.
Note that the mistakes you are referring to came about due to human error,
not a planned hate campaign like SGI is engaged in.
Cody
Cody
"Cashjlac" <cash...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030320125202...@mb-ck.aol.com...
When someone says the "jury's out on which side is right or wrong", they
must be deaf or blind to not be able to see the perscution campaign that
Ikeda has waged against us. Either that or she is - like you - in denial.
> Susanne whom I know from various activities over the years is a very nice
and
> sincere woman. <
Read her posts on the Yahoo boards and then get back to me.
> She doesn't deserve to be spoken to or about the way you are.
> But then, you don't much care about anyone else do you.?
I was merely amazed that she came up with such an obviously untrue
statement. I care about a lot of people but you wouldn't know about that
because you don't know me. This doesn't stop you, though, from stating it as
though it were fact.
Cody
dc
> compassion. It's a beginning.
>
> With love, Susanne<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Very good Suzanne. I hope that something good will come of this
gathering.
> Plese invite the local Priests, I think that is essential. The
> self-righteousness on both sides has been a mirror image.
>
> dc
You're full of it, Cole, as usual. SGI lied about us. The stalked us. Etc.
And you think that SGI should be the one to reunite us? You really are a
traitor. Reunification with SGI is about as necessary as a fish needing a
bicycle.
Cody
>
>Then please stay away Cody. This will happen whether you like it or not.
Cody, What part of "Mirror Image," do you not understand?
dc
dc
just say so and be done with it? Do you think it's easy for Susanne and
Bruce
to put this together and invite people like you who are so hateful? I think
it's a wonderful idea and will be chanting for the complete success of this
event. The two sides need to learn to "live together" and get along. This
divorce has not been a positive force for Kosen Rufu and now, more than
ever,
we need to work together to accomplish our mutual goal of kosen rufu. I hope
the local priests do come and I am quite sure there will be some Hokkeko
members there as well. <<<<<<<<<<<<<
I hope that the local Priests are formally invited. In this way the best
use of such a gathering can happen. Angry people standing on petty dogma
distinctions forget the true nature of Buddhism.
dc
dc
Clearly, the spirit of the meeting as presented by Suzanne and Bruce is a
sincere one. It is a step. The suspicion that it is a Gakkai Plot is the
same suspicion many Gakkai would have, were the temple to invite the Gakkai
to attend a friendship meeting, but that kind of suspicion is if no value.
I think it would wonderful if people in this country would stop buying into
schismatic attitudes, arguing over dogma, when essentially the teaching of
Itai Doshin and unity of priesthood and laity is far more of a buddhist
attitude then peoople breaking into insulated gangs. When that happenes
both "sides" are in the wrong.
Buddhism is not about dogma and divisions. Buddhism is not about
hierarchies and lineages, "Masters," or "disciples." Buddhism is not
about getting everyone to jump over to your side, "avenging," your side, or
excludinig others by decree and excommunication.
Buddhism is about breaking down the walls in the mind and working together
to remove suffering. Buddhism is not about perpetuating small mindedness
and false pride. Buddhsim is about transcending differences.
dc
dc
Pat<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Although fluid protocols are essential for some semblance of order and
organization, rigid walls of organizational power and control is shallow.
Buddhism is not about purity of dogma, it is about purity of compassion.
Buddhism isn't about fighting about opinions of orthodoxy, it is about
transcending differences. Buddhism isn't about Revering a Priesthood or a
President. Buddhism is about revering the essense of life and protecting
everyone and everything.
The schims of the past are simply demonic obstacles-----let them go and tell
others to do the same. resist the old and create the new.
Nothing can proceed until this changes. No matter how people imagine that
their side is in the right and other sides are in the wrong. As long as
people are attached to shallow differences nothing will proceed.
dc
Cody
I understand it completely. I also understand that Nichiren Shoshu and SGI
are not "mirror images".
The SGI was never an asset, David, and never will be. Nichiren Shoshu grew -
and grows - despite the SGI.
Have fun at the SS gathering.
Cody
Gina
>
> Clearly, the spirit of the meeting as presented by Suzanne and Bruce is a
> sincere one. It is a step. The suspicion that it is a Gakkai Plot is the
> same suspicion many Gakkai would have, were the temple to invite the
Gakkai
> to attend a friendship meeting, but that kind of suspicion is if no value.
>
on the various buddhist boards they are on and have been on, to know that
their intent of this meeting has been "misrepresented". But, they are the
ones who are misrepresenting their intent.
One only needs to read the Justice Chronicle to realize the "intention" of
Soka Spirit.
I speak from realism, not paranoia. I did agree with your comments about
the priest being present, but I don't think that you have a very deep
understanding of the Gakkai and the Soka Spirit within it, if you are
praising this meeting.
Sorry, not buying. Gina
xt
> "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message news:<wphea.2448$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>...> > news:K7hea.35$TW2....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> > And you think that SGI should be the one to reunite us? You really are a
> > traitor. Reunification with SGI is about as necessary as a fish needing a
> > bicycle.
> >
> > Cody
>
>
> There are two reasons why I don't practice with the Temple: (1) I have
> the Gohonzon because of the efforts of the pioneer SGI members and
> unfortunately you don't get to choose your family; (2) I am extremely
> critical of the SGI and while my outspoken rebel style can be
> extremely honest and is often perceived as offensive, NOWADAYS they
> listen. I have on 2 occasions confronted Pres. Ikeda publicly
> regarding certain issues I have disagreed with. My key issue is that
> the leaders exist for the sake of the members and when they step out
> of line, believe me they hear about it. SO we're having this
> get-together... please attend!
>
> Susanne
Dear Susanne:
I see nothing wrong with holding a dialogue/debate or whatever you
wish to call it with SGI members. You don't mention whether there will
be any gongyo because NST members absolutely will not chant to the SGI
mandala, that would be out of the question. They do have have
permission to do that nor the desire. Attending a discussion or
attempt at rapprochement is in everyone's best interests, but it would
be impossible to get NST members to chant with you unless it is to a
Gohonzon that signifies the Heritage of the Lifeblood. The alternative
is to ask permission of Reverend Takano to attend the temple because
as you may know, SGI members may not attend the temple uninvited.
I have a question for you. Do you not see a contradiction between the
tenor of the weekly Soka Spirit emailer and this invitation. The SS
has been very strident in its position towards the temple and
especially in regard to our High Priest. Why the change of heart now?
Sincerely,
Una
Cashjlac
Date: 2013Mar2003 11:04 AM
Message-id: <3hoea.145$TW2.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net>
dc
>
>I agree the priests should get a formal invitation. It will make them feel
more comfortable going I believe.
>>
Cashjlac
Message-id: <seoea.144$TW2.1...@news1.news.adelphia.net>
dc
>
>The part that applies to his own life.
>>
xt
>
> > snip <
>
> > Please join us in what should be an atmosphere of mutual respect and
> > compassion. It's a beginning.
> >
> > With love, Susanne
>
>
> Although we respect the potential Buddha nature of all life, the SGI
> (as a chartered lay organization of Nichiren Shoshu) was duly and
> properly ordered to disband many years ago. Since some few people still
> refuse to follow that instruction, they have harmed themselves and are
> burning their seeds of enlightenment. This is a very sad fact.
> Nonetheless, we cannot consort with such slanderers in any social
> pretext without becoming complicit in their slander.
>
> We'd each be glad to help you overcome the SGI social addiction and
> return home to True Buddhism, but we won't play ecumenical games with
> you and thereby mix your sand with our rice, if you understand.
>
> I'm not being glib or smarmy here. We all just feel such pity for you
> folks, and we have no choice but to tell you the truth.
>
> Here's hoping that you will remember the concepts of "returning to the
> prime point" and "starting anew every moment" which are required in
> order to return home. We've all done it, and I'm sure you can too. :)
>
> Take care,
> - Larry Crimmins, Phoenix, USA
Larry:
I agree with you that the SGI is an organization of slander which,
from the correct perspective, is trying to destroy Buddhism. And you
may be right about attending an organized gathering such as this one,
if one is unaware of being complicit in slander. I once asked one of
our priests about the admonition of Nikko Shonin not to sit with
slanderers and his reply was that we are all slanderers. Certainly one
would never chant with them to their mandalas. But one can not avoid
complicity simply, one can be complicit in thought as well as action.
I have recently been able to shakabuku an SGI member and at the temple
it is very common now to see SGI members coming back to receive kankai
ceremony on a Sunday so I am very optimistic about this, although I
would check with Reverend Takano first. If we believe that it is
impossible to shakabuku them, then that will be the outcome. But,
correct me if I am wrong, as I understand it our High Priest has
encouraged us to shakabuku SGI members on many occasions.
The gosho "On the Buddhas's Behaviour" illustrates this very well.
Those who came to harm the Daishonin were converted into followers.
The Tatsunokuchi Persecution is another wonderful example of changing
poison into medicine. The Daishonin achieved his hosshaku kempon and
avoided beheading at that time. I am sure that even the SGI members
understand these examples.
Since most of us have been to SGI meetings and know what that is all
about we may be non-plussed by such an invitation, especially after
the awesome experiences of Gokaihi and attending the temple to chant
to the Joju Gohonzon which has more power than our household
Gohonzons. In that case, I would invite the SGI members to learn about
the ceremonies of Nichiren Shoshu so that they will understand what
real Buddhism is all about. But I wouldn't give up on them completely.
xt
Akira
> regarding certain issues I have disagreed with.
What did you say to him? Who interpreted for you and what was his
reply?
By the way- I found this statement of yours on the IRG board. Any
comments?
"I personally consider Pres. Ikeda to be my mentor, receive the WT and
support Soka Spirit"
Akira
dc
the priest being present, but I don't think that you have a very deep
understanding of the Gakkai and the Soka Spirit within it, if you are
praising this meeting.
Sorry, not buying. Gina<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I have no interest in any of the artifacts of past organizational behaviors
that lead to disunity, whether it is a fanatical "Soka Spirit," or a
fanatical anti-gakkai sentiment. None of this is Buddhism. It is childish
fighting from people who do not even know what they they are fighting about,
exceopt that they know they are waving gang colors and attacking the other
side. All the dogma or "orthodoxy," in the universe, will never lead to
enlightenment or world peace.
dc
dc
Throughout American history there have been family names that conjure up
images of pride and respect. But in Appalachia, the names Hatfield and McCoy
did neither. Now, the descendants of the famous feud are writing a new
chapter in their family's history.
The folklore of appalachia is filled with stories of triumph and tragedy,
poverty and riches. Deep in the tug valley is a true story of two feuding
families - the Hatfield and the McCoy.... And their patriarchs, Devil Anse
Hatfield and Randolph McCoy.
a suspected stolen pig, murder, family pride and loyalty all contributed to
the hostilities. The feud ended more than a 100 years ago, but folklore
keeps it alive.
Bo McCoy
Reunion Organizer
It's sad when you say Hatfields and McCoy, people think of killing... yes
there was blood shed, it was not people sitting on their porches shooting at
each other, these people were passionate, intelligent business, people who
had a life in these woods.
That's why bo McCoy, a great, great, great grandson is bringing the
families together on peaceful terms.
Bo McCoy
Reunion Organizer
It's time we undo some of those stereotypes and hold hands with another
Hatfield and say the Hatfields and McCoys are something more than bitter
strife and fighting. The two sides have come together on the site of
Reverend Anderson Hatfield's property, the home where the hog trial took
place.
Sonya Hatfield
Reunion Organizer
We want people to know we are not ignorant, illiterate hillbillies who
fought over a hog, we want people to understand what the feud is.
The Tug River, separated the two families, the Hatfields on the West
Virginia side, and the McCoys on the Kentucky side, but it's on this bridge
where the two families will come together for a church service.
Because of the feud, the stereotype of the residents went from brave
frontier people to back wood bumpkins. These decendents want to break that
image their families helped to create.
The reunion festival is open to everyone, with all day events Friday, June 9
through Sunday June 11. It wraps up with a friendly tug of war and softball
game.
For more information, you can call 304-235-5240 or 606-353-9719.
Natalie Tennant Traveling West Virginia and Kentucky.
FOR MORE INFORMATION:
Phone: 304-235-5240
Phone: 606-353-9719
Website: www.real-mccoys.com
Email: story...@cyberriver.net
momo
I have a question, if you would be willing to answer it.
Did you exchange your Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzon for the SGI honzon?
And if so, did you respectfully return The Nichiren Shoshu Gohonzon,that was
entrusted to you by Nichiren Shoshu, back to the Temple?
Thank you in advance for your honest reply.
Sincerely,
Momo
> > "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
>
> > As far as Bruce Barnes is concerned, I have spoken to some SGI members and
> > Mr Barnes is known for putting down and lying about Nichiren Shoshu.
> >
> > Cody
>
> Cody,
>
> I can't speak for Bruce or his position. By referring to him as an
> "ally" I meant that he was open to different point-of-view.
>
> Susanne
susieh
> "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> >
> > Dear Larry,
> >
> > Thank you for for your thoughtful and humanistic response. In my book
> > the jury's still out on which side is right or wrong.
> >
> > Susanne
>
> LOL! Are you blind? Deaf?
>
> Cody
Dear Cody (great name!),
While it is painful to watch the SGI continue to shoot itself in the
foot again and again, my personal battle for the egocentric in both
our organizations to opt for equality in front of the Gohonzon. That
goes for presidents, priests, doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs. A
bizarre concept, EQUALITY. But this is ANERICA!!!
Susanne
Akira
> I hope that the local Priests are formally invited.
But you said you hate nips, dc
Akira
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <8Mnea.2520$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
>I don't need to get back to you. I know what she is like in person, you
don't. She is a very nice person and you really should get a handle on your
negativity.
CLK
Susanne,
We are all equal in front of the gohonzon anyway, despite certain ego
problems we may have.
But, can you see that a meeting sponsored by Soka Spirit, without a priest
in site, held at an SGI center, just might not be a place where truly open
discussion could occur?
No meeting where the other "side" is intent on converting someone else to
their "side" will turn out well, in my opinion.
Una's idea that you contact the priest at Myohoji and set up something with
him, if you want to have a friendship type gathering, was, I think, a good
one.
Her question about how you can reconcile your Soka Spirit sponsored friendly
meeting with the temple members and the current commentary in the Justice
Chronicles? I'd like to know that too. I am a member of SGI who doesn't
approve of the Soka Spirit movement at all. All the Justice Chronicle
rhetoric, and that type of thing, are thorns in my side as a member. In my
personal opinion, and using my personal ego to judge, Soka Spirit is just
wrong.
As for me, I will continue to have friends of many different religions,
without the thought that they must agree with mine. No jihad for me,
thanks.
clk
susieh
> Message-id: <Prmea.2496$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>> news:20030320114606...@mb-fg.aol.com...> > Date: 2013Mar2003 3:15 AM
> > Message-id: <wphea.2448$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
> > > compassion. It's a beginning.
> > >
> > > With love, Susanne<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > >
> gathering.
> > > Plese invite the local Priests, I think that is essential. The
> > > self-righteousness on both sides has been a mirror image.
> > >
> > > dc
> >
> > You're full of it, Cole, as usual. SGI lied about us. The stalked us. Etc.
> > And you think that SGI should be the one to reunite us? You really are a
> > traitor. Reunification with SGI is about as necessary as a fish needing a
> > bicycle.
> >
> > Cody
> > >
> > >Then please stay away Cody. This will happen whether you like it or not.
>
> meeting and watch SGI cult members lie.
>
> Cody
> >
> >Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event? Why do
> you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know Susanne
> and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart and a
> pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would like
> nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of Kosen-Rufu.
> Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> communication between us and bridge the gaps.
>
>
> Dear Dave,
> Thank you.
Susanne
>
>
>
> >>
Cody
You're getting redundant in your old age, Cole.
Yawn.
Cody
Cody
Nope, Akira already posted some. I see you are being very quiet about that.
> I know what she is like in person, you
> don't. She is a very nice person and you really should get a handle on
your
> negativity.
>
If she's anything like you, she's not a "nice" person. It's a hoax, a trap.
It's totally absurd. Her "sincerity" is a ploy to try and get Hokkeko
members to come back to SGI and was planned at a SS meeting which Bruce
Barnes being the "cho". She has been very clear on her hateful feelings
towards True Buddhism.
Cody
susieh
> Oh, so for the sake of your "family" you "have" to practise with the non
> Buddhist SGI Ikeda cult. Do they have you chained up or something?
Cody,
I stay with the Gakkai out of appreciaton. It has enabled me to
revolutionize my life. But I don't push my choice on others.
> Send me the round trip ticket from Valencia, Spain to LA and I will consider
> it.
>
> Heh
>
> Cody
How much is it?
Heh
Susanne
Cody
news:<t0mea.2492$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>...
> > "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> > >
> > > Dear Larry,
> > >
> > > Thank you for for your thoughtful and humanistic response. In my book
> > > the jury's still out on which side is right or wrong.
> > >
> > > Susanne
> >
> > LOL! Are you blind? Deaf?
> >
> > Cody
>
> Dear Cody (great name!),
It is my surname, thanks.
>
> While it is painful to watch the SGI continue to shoot itself in the
> foot again and again, my personal battle for the egocentric in both
> our organizations to opt for equality in front of the Gohonzon. That
> goes for presidents, priests, doctors, lawyers and Indian chiefs. A
> bizarre concept, EQUALITY. But this is ANERICA!!!
> Susanne
There is equality in front of the Gohozon, if you have a valid Gohonzon. The
SGI is keeping you away from this equality and has for years now.
See http://www.cebunet.com/sgi for the evidence that your ploy is simply
that, a ploy to get Hokkeko members to leave the Hokkeko and join your cult.
Save the pollyanna democratic bullshit for the new members you meet at the
indy boards.
Cody
Cody
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> > >Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event?
Because I am not stupid.
> Why do
> > you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know
Susanne
> > and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart
and a
> > pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would
like
> > nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of
Kosen-Rufu.
> > Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> > communication between us and bridge the gaps.
You're in fantasylandia, David.
> >
> >
> > Dear Dave,
>
> > Thank you.
>
> Susanne
For what? SGI will never, ever be a part of Nichiren Shoshu again. Ikeda
cannot afford the political price he would have to pay to show some humility
and take his firing like a man, order the SGI disbanded, and join the
Hokkeko as a plain member . How many times were leaders told in NSA that
they were no longer a leader or one of their juniors became their leader.
The explanation was always, check your faith, it's "humility training", ad
brainwashingeum.You are neglecting to see what is really important to Ikeda
and, baby, it ain't you, equality or world peace. He is a politician and
consumed by a fanatical passion for fame, wealth and power. He is obessessed
with getting awards and honorary degrees. And you think this guy will humble
himself and admit he isn't the True Buddha of the Modern Age, Philosopher
King, Poet, University founder, named after a tree, a lake, a garden, a
lagoon, an island, an auditorium, a hall ad nauseum? The man is a phony who
doesn't even write his own books or poems. A charlatan When he visits a
country, his "movement" is a lot of SGI YMD unpaid volunteers who go on a
shopping trip for awards and "honorary" degrees for their "sensei". I have
been on such a movement. SGI is a cult, face it.
Meanwhile, Nichiren Shoshu continues to do what it has done since the
Daishonin's times without changing the doctrine one iota and we are growing.
You don't need a gathering to "dialogue". You need to do zange and go to
your nearest temple and start practising True Buddhism again. You're still
alive; so it's not too late, honin myo and all.
Cody
Cody
>
> > Oh, so for the sake of your "family" you "have" to practise with the non
> > Buddhist SGI Ikeda cult. Do they have you chained up or something?
>
> Cody,
>
> I stay with the Gakkai out of appreciaton. It has enabled me to
> revolutionize my life. But I don't push my choice on others.
No, you and your practise have revolutionized your life, despite the cult
you think did it for you. How can you belong to a cult like SGI?
>
> > Send me the round trip ticket from Valencia, Spain to LA and I will
consider
> > it.
> >
> > Heh
> >
> > Cody
>
> How much is it?
>
> Heh
>
> Susanne
I was of course joking.
Cody
susieh
Dear Una,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. You raise some excellent
points. I'm a little backed up but will get back to you ASAP! Best,
Susanne
susieh
> sgha...@att.net (susieh) wrote in message
> > I have on 2 occasions confronted Pres. Ikeda publicly
> > regarding certain issues I have disagreed with.
>
> What did you say to him? Who interpreted for you and what was his
> reply?
Hi Akira. There is a full account of these two incidents on the IRG
board.
>
>
I personally consider Pres. Ikeda to be my mentor, receive the WT and
support Soka Spirit"
Pres Ikeda is my mentor because at crucial times in my life, his
guidance has pulled me through. However to me mentor-disciple is an
INTERACTIVE PROCESS and equality dictates that it is his
responsibility to listen as well as to talk.
I have supported Soka Spirit by changing it. And I use the WT to line
the cat box.
Susanne
susieh
Hi Gina,
I completely understand and support your very valid perceptions. Would
you be kind enough to be more specific about the above? Thank you,
Susanne
susieh
My Gohonzon was inscribed by the previous High Priest and is
considered neutral by both sides. It was not necessary to exchange it.
Good question, tho!
Susie
momo...@my-deja.com (momo) wrote in message news:<a3562011.03032...@posting.google.com>...
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <9Ltea.2619$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> > >Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event?
Because I am not stupid.
> Why do
> > you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know
Susanne
> > and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart
and a
> > pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would
like
> > nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of
Kosen-Rufu.
> > Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> > communication between us and bridge the gaps.
You're in fantasylandia, David.
>
>David didn't post that(see above) I did.<
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <jntea.2614$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
>
Cody
>
>You seem to think anyone I say is a good person is not. Did you like Ted
Osaki?
susieh
Part of the reason we're having a "Soka Spirit" meeting at an SGI
Center is to change the consciousness of our organization as well.
It is my understanding that Rev Takano and Rev Hosai have been
invited. Mike Robbins also.
The NST believers who have expressed an interest in attending are all
very secure in their choice of religious organizations.
Best,
Susanne Harris
doppelganger
redundant... I would agree with Larry, Cody, Una and others.
I think the correct direction for you is to be an example to the
sgi( and all the people you feel apprecation to) and return to NST and
the Temple...thereby leading your friends correctly and helping to
achieve the unity you desire.
It requires some humility and a bit of courage.
The idea of dogma gangs, neutrality, or meetings organized by sgi
...along with other forms of aversion to correcting the "mind of faith
"...... while holding reunification opinions, positions, and meetings
or letter writing campaigns....... that gloss over manipulations to
erase each individuals enlightenment and replace it with mentors or
philosophical intellectuals who continue to demean/trivialize/confuse
what is profoundly true and good ........notwithstanding...... I
think half measures are not as effective as returning to Nichiren
Shoshu and going on Tozan to express your appreciation to the True
Buddha. Expressing your loyalty and appreciation to the Dai-Gohonzon.
Opening the mind to more than what the ego requires.
d
sgha...@att.net (susieh) wrote in message news:<f55158c7.03032...@posting.google.com>...
Cody
news:<fc4f7dcc.03032...@posting.google.com>...
> > sgha...@att.net (susieh) wrote in message
> > > I have on 2 occasions confronted Pres. Ikeda publicly
> > > regarding certain issues I have disagreed with.
> >
> > What did you say to him? Who interpreted for you and what was his
> > reply?
>
> Hi Akira. There is a full account of these two incidents on the IRG
> board.
> >
> >
> I personally consider Pres. Ikeda to be my mentor, receive the WT and
> support Soka Spirit"
>
> Pres Ikeda is my mentor
So, you are his protégé?
> because at crucial times in my life, his
> guidance has pulled me through. <
His "guidance" is vague truisms like "Forge ahead", "The sky is blue." "Be
nice to your members."
However to me mentor-disciple is an
> INTERACTIVE PROCESS
Er, the "mentor-disciple" relationship doesn't exist. In proper English, it
is "master-disciple" and "mentor-protégé". "Mentor-disciple" is new age
soka-speak designed to appeal to new members. You know, like the new SGI
Gongyo Lite.
and equality dictates that it is his
> responsibility to listen as well as to talk.
LOL! Him listen? ROTFLMAO!
>
> I have supported Soka Spirit by changing it.
You may think you've changed it but the latest Justice Chronical says
differently.
And I use the WT to line
> the cat box.
>
> Susanne
The fact that you "subscribe" to the WT means you give money to the SGI
Ikeda cult. Not a good cause.
Cody
Cody
> << Subject: Re: SGI-USA and NST Hokkeko Get-together
> From: "Cody" Iwant...@atall.com
> Date: 2013Mar2003 5:17 PM
> Message-id: <9Ltea.2619$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
>
>
> "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
>
> > > >Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event?
>
> Because I am not stupid.
>
> > Why do
> > > you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know
> Susanne
> > > and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart
> and a
> > > pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would
> like
> > > nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of
> Kosen-Rufu.
> > > Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> > > communication between us and bridge the gaps.
>
> You're in fantasylandia, David.
> >
> >David didn't post that(see above) I did.<
Why don't you learn how post normally? If you did, it would be easier to
know what is your post and what is not. I noticed that your alter ego,
Eugene, posts the same way on Tim's Soka Gakkai Buddhism board. Since I
pointed out that "Eugene" is you, "Eugene" has left. LOL!
Cody
Cody
Akira has been kind enough to research your posting history on IRG.
Here's a taste:
IRG board
From: "sunderlandmick" <mickg1@e...>
Date: Wed Aug 21, 2002 5:44 am
Subject: Re: Soka Spirit in America: Now What?
--- In irgdaimoku@y..., "susieh90210" <sgharris@a...:
Dear Friends in the SGI,
There is talk on the street that during the next several months we
may see various individuals defect from the ranks of Nichiren Shoshu.
This is NOT a credit to the aggressive efforts of Soka Spirit and the
rabid temple-bashing that has humiliated us all. It appears, however,
that the sincere Daimoku of the Soka Spirit members has had an impact.
Hi Susanne - news on the streets around here is that various
individuals have defected from the SGI. I give some of the credit for
this to the aggressive efforts of Soka Spirit, which opened our eyes
to the reality of the SGI. I personally wish that SS and people like
yourself would direct your sincere Daimoku to combating the
intolerance and weirdness and Sensei-worship that drives people out
of the SGI, instead of trying to save people from the very similar
features of Nichiren Shoshu.
S - I have always asserted that we, ourselves, contributed to
populating the Temple and that the inherent wisdom of those members
must be honored. At the same time, I absolutely believed that that
same wisdom would eventually enable them to see through the
authoritarian and exploitative nature of the priesthood. And if the
SGI organization had grown enough to deserve to have them, they would
be back.
M - my own wisdom finally allowed me to see through the authoritarian
and exploitive nature of the SGI leadership, and make my escape to
the swelling ranks of NSA. Maybe you and the other Soka Spirit folks
can now turn the mighty sword of your Daimoku to the task of bringing
me back to the SGI.
S- While the subjective experience of each potential NST defector
seems to be different, at the heart of the matter is the heart of the
matter: they have found no heart at the Temple.
M- Not a lot of heart in the SGI in my subjective experience. Just
shunning and demonisation and Tariq-isms.
S - Some of the reasons they cite: the priesthood subjects them to
overly rigid thought control (not my words) through condescension and
disrespect.
M- Tariq and the rest of our leaders have developed these forms of
behavior into an art form. When my thoughts started
becoming "incorrect" I was subjected to a level of condescension and
disrespect that would match anything the Priesthood could come up
with.
S- They are required to stop all communication with SGI members.
M - SGI members were encouraged not to communicate with me, even
before I left, on the grounds that my reform activities were causing
disunity and confusion.
S - Nichiren Shoshu's facade of "orthodoxy" seems to have cracked
away, revealing a profound lack of humanism at its core.
M - Do you think Tariq Hasan's cold-hearted diatribe at the reformers
revealed a wealth of humanism ?
Mick
Cody
Not really. He was into the people control techniques. I remember him
telling me, as a YMD, that the members should be fighting to pass me, the
guard, to get to him, the guidance giver. That way they would have the
"proper seeking spirit". He taught me many crowd control techniques and mind
control techniques. He ruined a lot of people's lives with his "guidance".
The only leader I had any respect for was Kenji Sudo and all the priests I
met. The rest of them, including Osaki, would cream in their pants at the
mention of Ikeda. Nonetheless, Osaki had quite an influence and had SGI not
killed him, he probably would have taken most of the American members with
him to the temple. Sudo, well, they fired him for reading the real financial
figures and explanations at a big meeting. I would have loved to have been
there to see the expression on Sadanga's face.
You see, I joined because I was interested in, of all things, Buddhism, not
crowd control, mind control, silly fanfare, Ikeda adulation and the World
Tribune campaign. The only meetings I liked were the shakubuku meetings. I
didn't like the conventions or any of the other silly activities.
Cody
Cody
>
> Part of the reason we're having a "Soka Spirit" meeting at an SGI
> Center is to change the consciousness of our organization as well.
Not to mention being on home turf with the right to not admit or expell
participants.
>
> It is my understanding that Rev Takano and Rev Hosai have been
> invited. Mike Robbins also.
I hope they don't go.
>
> The NST believers who have expressed an interest in attending are all
> very secure in their choice of religious organizations.
>
> Best,
>
> Susanne Harris
The only way you can do any good is to quit the SGI Ikeda cult and come back
home to True Buddhism. Everything else is bullshit.
Cody
CLK
>
> "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote in message
> news:f55158c7.03032...@posting.google.com...
> > Dear clk,
> >
> > Part of the reason we're having a "Soka Spirit" meeting at an SGI
> > Center is to change the consciousness of our organization as well.
>
> Not to mention being on home turf with the right to not admit or expell
> participants.
> >
> > It is my understanding that Rev Takano and Rev Hosai have been
> > invited. Mike Robbins also.
>
> I hope they don't go.
> >
Why hope they don't go? Nothing wrong with that. But, doubt if they will.
Again, I think that any meeting with the temple should be arranged with
those priests, and Mike, in advance, to make sure they are definitely
present. My opinion. clk
Cody
"CLK" <none...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:VaFea.45922$Ad6....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Cody" <Iwant...@atall.com> wrote in message
> news:dRDea.2660$qF6.2...@news.ono.com...
> >
> > "susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote in message
> > news:f55158c7.03032...@posting.google.com...
> > > Dear clk,
> > >
> > > Part of the reason we're having a "Soka Spirit" meeting at an SGI
> > > Center is to change the consciousness of our organization as well.
> >
> > Not to mention being on home turf with the right to not admit or expell
> > participants.
> > >
> > > It is my understanding that Rev Takano and Rev Hosai have been
> > > invited. Mike Robbins also.
> >
> > I hope they don't go.
> > >
>
> Why hope they don't go? Nothing wrong with that.
Why should they? It's obviously a set up.
> But, doubt if they will.
> Again, I think that any meeting with the temple should be arranged with
> those priests, and Mike, in advance, to make sure they are definitely
> present. My opinion. clk
There is no need for SGI to meet with NST or Hokkeko. What the SGIers should
do, as I have explained time and again, is return to Nichiren Shoshu if they
want to practise True Buddhism again.
Cody
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <KEDea.2652$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>What on earth are you talking about now Cody? Who's Tim and what is the Soka
Gakkai Buddhism Board? And who is Eugene?
Cody
Maybe you're not Eugene. He learned how to post and you still haven't
Cody
Xxxoooxxxooo123
Message-id: <hXGea.2690$qF6.2...@news.ono.com>
Cody
>
>You really are sad Michael. The only person who engages in alter ego's are
your best friend Bratcher who has at least 40 alter ego's.
Cody
You have a few different sceen names, Cash. I have only one, my name.
Cody
Akira
>Dear Akira,
>For the most part I agree. So have a get-together at the Temple and
we
>can come there!
>Susane
Great news. As soon as I see that the cult propaganda websites are
down, including the Soka Spit website, and the public apologies come
in from you, Barnes and others for your roles in the Soka Spit hate
campaigns, I will arrange one immediately. You can work on arranging
the resignations and the burning of all the cult hate literature in
the mean time.
Akira
>akira...@yahoo.com (Akira) wrote in message
>>>In addition, the cult is still holding chanting sessions at the LA
>"friendship" center focused on destroying us. If Bruce were really
>sincere, he would use his leadership position in the SS to STOP the
>hate campaign. But he will not. If he did, he would immediately lose
>his position. And this in itself proves that SGI is not interested in
>ending it's hate campaign.
>>>I guess I'm asking too much of the cult to prove to us that they
are
>sincere. I'm not surprised that no senior leader is willing to stick
>his neck out and apologise for the things that Suzanne is so appalled
>about, including Bruce Barnes himself. If Bruce was sincere, he would
>resign his post of the SGI SS hate group, and apologise for his role
>in the war that they are waging against us. The cult is only
>interested in getting more followers of Ikeda, apparently.
>>
>> If you guys have the kind of influence to change SGI, then use it
to
>> take down all those nasty websites about us. You know- the
kachiyuke
>> sites, the watchbuddh site, all the various sites that tell lies
and
>> attack us. After that, an apology from Daisaku Ikeda for inciting
the
>> fanatics with his sick poems and his hate speeches. Then, after he
>> resigns and turns the organization over to the members, you should
pay
>> back Tonga the millions SGI stole from them, and then fire all the
>> various senior leaders like Kitano, McIlraith, McClosky, and the
>> others all appointed by Ikeda. And finally, after the "soka spit"
>> group is disbanded, and Bruce Barnes apologises for his role in
>> attempting to destroy us, and all the hate literature is burned in
a
>> public bon fire, we will be happy to meet with all of you... at the
>> temple.
>>
>> Akira
Akira
>
> While it is painful to watch the SGI continue to shoot itself in the
> foot again and again<<
Yeah- especially when it's YOUR foot, and YOUR finger was on the trigger
IRG board
From: "sunderlandmick" <mickg1@e...>
Date: Wed Aug 21, 2002 5:44 am
Subject: Re: Soka Spirit in America: Now What?
--- In irgdaimoku@y..., "susieh90210" <sgharris@a...:
Dear Friends in the SGI,
There is talk on the street that during the next several months we
may see various individuals defect from the ranks of Nichiren Shoshu.
This is NOT a credit to the aggressive efforts of Soka Spirit and the
rabid temple-bashing that has humiliated us all. It appears, however,
that the sincere Daimoku of the Soka Spirit members has had an impact.
Hi Susanne – news on the streets around here is that various
individuals have defected from the SGI. I give some of the credit for
this to the aggressive efforts of Soka Spirit, which opened our eyes
to the reality of the SGI. I personally wish that SS and people like
yourself would direct your sincere Daimoku to combating the
intolerance and weirdness and Sensei-worship that drives people out
of the SGI, instead of trying to save people from the very similar
features of Nichiren Shoshu.
S - I have always asserted that we, ourselves, contributed to
populating the Temple and that the inherent wisdom of those members
must be honored. At the same time, I absolutely believed that that
same wisdom would eventually enable them to see through the
authoritarian and exploitative nature of the priesthood. And if the
SGI organization had grown enough to deserve to have them, they would
be back.
M – my own wisdom finally allowed me to see through the authoritarian
and exploitive nature of the SGI leadership, and make my escape to
the swelling ranks of NSA. Maybe you and the other Soka Spirit folks
can now turn the mighty sword of your Daimoku to the task of bringing
me back to the SGI.
S- While the subjective experience of each potential NST defector
seems to be different, at the heart of the matter is the heart of the
matter: they have found no heart at the Temple.
M- Not a lot of heart in the SGI in my subjective experience. Just
shunning and demonisation and Tariq-isms.
S - Some of the reasons they cite: the priesthood subjects them to
overly rigid thought control (not my words) through condescension and
disrespect.
M- Tariq and the rest of our leaders have developed these forms of
behavior into an art form. When my thoughts started
becoming "incorrect" I was subjected to a level of condescension and
disrespect that would match anything the Priesthood could come up
with.
S- They are required to stop all communication with SGI members.
M – SGI members were encouraged not to communicate with me, even
before I left, on the grounds that my reform activities were causing
disunity and confusion.
S - Nichiren Shoshu's facade of "orthodoxy" seems to have cracked
away, revealing a profound lack of humanism at its core.
M – Do you think Tariq Hasan's cold-hearted diatribe at the reformers
susieh
LOL!!! I am an outapoken critic of both sides! Here are some excerpts
from a recent email I sent to the national leadership of the SGI-USA.
Enjoy!
"Excerpts from
A BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF THE PLAZA
By Susanne Harris
2-21-03
…While at times hardworking and dedicated, "hypocritical" might best
characterize some of you (SGI staff members) when you think no one is
looking. I call you the CHICKENS.
…Sensei's disciples in Japan are highly trained and overwhelmingly
sincere. But their measure of "faith" seems to be irrational cult-like
subservience. I call them the CUCKOOS.
…Maybe we should rename the org SGA for Soka Gakkai Aviary."
Sincerely,
Susanne
Cody
Ikeda cult.
Cody
"susieh" <sgha...@att.net> wrote
> Dear Akira, Mick and others,
>
> LOL!!! I am an outapoken critic of both sides! Here are some excerpts
> from a recent email I sent to the national leadership of the SGI-USA.
> Enjoy!
>
> "Excerpts from
> A BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF THE PLAZA
> By Susanne Harris
> 2-21-03
>
> .While at times hardworking and dedicated, "hypocritical" might best
> characterize some of you (SGI staff members) when you think no one is
> looking. I call you the CHICKENS.
>
> .Sensei's disciples in Japan are highly trained and overwhelmingly
> sincere. But their measure of "faith" seems to be irrational cult-like
> subservience. I call them the CUCKOOS.
>
> .Maybe we should rename the org SGA for Soka Gakkai Aviary."
Akira
>Thank you for your wise and orthodox counsel. However, I think you
and
>this dispute have inadvertently pidgeon-holed me into one
organization
>or the other.
You pidgeon holed yourself when you said that Daisaku Ikeda is your
mentor. The rest of your duplicitous sermon means nothing since you
still have not apologised for your role in the Soka Spit hate and lie
campaign. After all why should we trust the cult when they have not
disavowed their hate campaign to destroy us. But it's OK, we can see
right through you.
"If, with the mind of the Buddha, one practices the Lotus Sutra as the
Buddha taught, in the right manner and at the right time, then these
seven obstacles and devils will confront him. The Devil of the Sixth
Heaven is the most powerful. He will possess one's sovereign, parents,
wife or children, fellow believers or evil men, and through them will
attempt in a friendly manner to divert him from his practice of the
Lotus Sutra, or will oppose him outright. The practice of Buddhism is
always accompanied by persecutions and difficulties that become more
severe as one moves to the practice of more profound sutras."
Nichiren Daishonin
Akira
>Here's the way I see it: As a bodhisattva of the earth, I have an
>eternal bond with Nichiren Daishonin. It is not determined nor
limited
>by "membership" in any externally-imposed "organization." It is
simply
>my life.
>
>That said, who suffers from this absurd tug-of-war over the members?
The
>members. And that's why we should he mature enough in faith to confer
>together for the sake of generations to come.
>
>The guys at the top can slug it out. I refuse to be a pawn in their
game
>of "whoever dies with the most members wins." They've both made
mistakes
>as far as I'm concerned.
>
>Let's try another road. Let's communicate with our leaders -- priests
>and lay leaders alike -- wholeheartedly to attend this get-together.
>
>It may be a rocky at first but let's open our hearts. Let's give each
>other another chance. If it ends in an impasse, let's shake hands and
go
>back to our corners. At least we can say we tried.
>
>The Devil divides, the Buddha unites.
>
>Sincerely,
>Susanne Harris
Mercia
> Don't worry, I am not going to spend my money on a plane ticket to go to a
> meeting and watch SGI cult members lie.
>
> Cody
> >
> >Why can't you just accept the sincerity of the spirit of this event? Why
do
> you attack? Don't come, it's simple. Say no thanks. You don't know
Susanne
> and you have no idea what her spirit is. I do. She has a pure heart and
a
> pure spirit. There are many of us, SGI and Hokkeko members who would like
> nothing more than to end this split and get on with the buisness of
Kosen-Rufu.
> Both sides have made mistakes but it is time to open up the lines of
> communication between us and bridge the gaps.
>
Some people just cannot accept happiness in their lives so they pull others
down in their pit of darkness. They are like human vampires who thrive on
draining other people's positive energy and life force.
It is a wonderful opportunity for lay members to get together and for those
Hokkeko members who are concerned about Gohonzon, is it not the Dai-Gohonzon
which carries the Supreme Power? Once again people are limiting their full
potential because they base their decisions on personality clashes which
arise from the EGO. Buddha HAS NO EGO. The Dharma teaches about the
non-attachment and sowing the seeds of no suffering.
Then again, Hokkeko members wanting to share the goodwill and who are
concerned about the Gohonzon can stay without the chanting. No different to
going to a church when attending somebody's wedding who is a non-Hokkeko
member.
There are those of course who just love to foster hatred and will carry on
doing so for centuries. Reminds me of the story of the scorpio who asked the
frog to carry him across the water. The frog said, no, for you will sting me
and I shall surely die. The scorpio said, don't be stupid, if I sting you,
we shall drown and we shall both die. So the frog agrees and mid-stream the
scorpio stings the frog and says, sorry, couldn't help myself, as it is
within my nature.
Mercia
>
>
>
>
> >>
>
>
>
susieh
so I'm going to rest now. Hope to see you on the 30th.
All the best,
Susanne
Akira: Your faith is awesome. Thank you for the exchange.
Cody: Like your style!
David: Glad we crossed paths again! Appreciate the support.
Larry: Thanks for your sincere thoughts.
Gina, Una and everyone who has taken the time to correspond: It has
truly been a pleasure "meeting" you.
susieh
Mr T
"Mercia" <mer...@nospampleaseblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Mercia responds :
> Some people just cannot accept happiness in their lives so they pull others
> down in their pit of darkness. They are like human vampires who thrive on
> draining other people's positive energy and life force.
>
> It is a wonderful opportunity for lay members to get together and for those
> Hokkeko members who are concerned about Gohonzon, is it not the Dai-Gohonzon
> which carries the Supreme Power? Once again people are limiting their full
> potential because they base their decisions on personality clashes which
> arise from the EGO. Buddha HAS NO EGO. The Dharma teaches about the
> non-attachment and sowing the seeds of no suffering.
Mercia, I'm right in the thick of all this here in LA. The problem is
Soka Spirit and how the SGI tends to milk everything it can for PR
value. The notion of Hokkeko members meeting at a major SGI building
would be the biggest coup they could hope for in their campaign to get
NS believers back into the SGI. Irregardless of the attendees beliefs,
word would be spread around the SGI among their higher leadership that
they made headway into getting "us" back into the SGI.
I really hate to say that this would happen, but look at who is in their
high leadership: you have everything from the YMD chief who gained
notoriety planting himself in our temple to spy for several months (I
knew him), feigning to want to be a Hokkeko member, to the men's chief
who is outspoken with his intolerance to dissent within the SGI.
These people are rewarded and encouraged within their group.
Soka Spirit is one of this year's top campaigns.
Susie sincerely wants us to be together on this. I have never discounted
her intentions as anything but sincere. She is a wonderful and kind
person.
The bigger problem is the SGI leadership and how they take advantage of
things.
--
Kurt
susieh
Thank you for the kind words. FYI, I agree with you on the
exploitation issue. As you know, for me this is not about putting
anyone on display. If anything were to occur to betray your trust
they'd have me to contend with and I can make a lot of noise. In the
spirit of equality, I slam the leadership whenever I feel they step
out of line. Here are some excerpts from an email I sent to the
national leadership of the SGI-USA the last time they pissed me off.
"Excerpts from
A BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF THE PLAZA
By Susanne Harris
2-21-03
...While at times hardworking and dedicated, (in this particular
instance) "hypocritical" might best characterize some of you when
you think no one is looking. I call you the CHICKENS.
...disciples in Japan are highly trained and overwhelmingly sincere.
But their measure of "faith" seems to be irrational cult-like
subservience. I call them the CUCKOOS.
...Maybe we should rename the org SGA for Soka Gakkai Aviary."
The whole SGI/NST conflict can't get any heavier. Why not approach it
with wit and creativity? We're smart people. Let's get together and
think outside the box. There will be refreshments, after all. Hey,
dude, how would you like a nice Hawaiian Punch? hahahahaha!!!
Love, Susie
Mr T <ab...@renaultcaravelle.com> wrote in message news:<abuse-D38A79....@news-west.giganews.com>...
Derek N.P.F. Juhl
> Susie sincerely wants us to be together on this. I have never discounted
> her intentions as anything but sincere. She is a wonderful and kind
> person.
> The bigger problem is the SGI leadership and how they take advantage of
> things.
I believe that Susie is a lovely and sincere lady, but the SGI
*organisation* is not known for its honesty. It seems that many SGI
members can not see or choose not to see how the senior leaders
manipulate them.
I would not attend a Soka spirit gathering for any reason. The
motivation of that entire movement is abhorrent, no matter how SGI
tries to candy coat it.
Derek Juhl