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You Are Clearly And Unmistakably Lost In Zen, Noel +^
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Chas.
Nov 20, 2022, 5:29:09 AM11/20/22
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You Are Clearly And Unmistakably Lost In Zen, Noel +
On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 1:58:34 AM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
>
> But Nichiren lived in the 1200s! OOPSIE!!! So naturally, since religious people have little use for facts unless they suit their own religious purposes, they just moved Shakyamuni back another 500 years in order to make the timeline work for Nichiren.
>
> Its also said that Shakyamuni didn't teach the Lotus Sutra but rather a group of enlightened monks at a later time during one of the Buddhist councils.
>
> What is more important to me is not who said what and when but rather the substance of what it is that has been said such as the theory of ichinen sanzen that is the heart of the Lotus Sutra that Chih-i systemised and Nichiren materialised through Nama Rupa/name and Form Ji no ichinen sanzen, Daimoku and Gohonzon
BTW, Noel, the very thought that you could divorce Shakyamuni from the Lotus Sutra demonstrates, without a doubt, that you are adrift on an "ocean of nescience" to anyone who understands the fundamental and genetic relationship between the lotus, the entity and enlightenment thereof.
The very idea that Shakyamuni could preach the Juryo chapter without the title of Saddharma Pundarika Sutra is completely erroneous. There is a critical and necessary relationship between the Lotus and the entity of the mystic Law, in all versions of the Lotus Sutra preached by any of the Great Buddhas, anywhere, anytime.
The only source of enlightenment anywhere, anytime, is the Lotus Sutra with the Law at the heart of it. That is what the Gohonzon is all about.
There is no other preaching that can discuss true enlightenment than the Lotus Sutra.
If Shakyamuni was a Great Buddha, he could only be preaching the Lotus Sutra as his highest teaching. Since that is true, then his later followers did not create that teaching by augmentation.
Nichiren Daishonin makes this much more clear than I can in "The Opening of the Eyes" and the "Entity of the Mystic Law" Goshos.
You are clearly and unmistakably lost, Noel.
-Chas.
___________________________________________________________
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 6:51:56 PM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
>
> Aren't we all but just don't know it! Thinking that we have found the Golden fleece that gives us a temporary sense of well being for now when we are more like particles of dust blowing in the winds of eternity to where ever, thinking that we are in control of our eternal destiny.
>
> All are like straw men building kingdoms on the imaginations of others or our own. Clasping at these conceptual straws is more like the brutal truth of it all, however, there is a peace that surpasses all understanding that exists within us all that is not dependent on word, thought and deed, if only the insane mind can sense it for a second, there would be a way out of this Bedlam
>
> So happens I experience this peace while chanting in front of the Gohonzon and when sitting in silent Meditation as in the tradition of many of the great masters of pre-Buddhist and Buddhist times which happens to be non-exclusive of any persuasions
>
> You can spin all the concepts you like to entangle those you seek to trap but you can never have control over that which is beyond time and space, birth and death yet exist within it. It is the intelligence through which all is orchestrated that has no difference from us.
>
> The paradox of Nam[u] Myoho Renge Kyo is that it is a name for that which cannot be named
>
> Noel
The poignant pathos expressed in that non sequitur statement leaves me a little breathless. And silent meditation is mixing practices with Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. As it says in the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, the only meditation in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra is chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/Separate-Transmission/1#para-137
... This passage is saying that when the single mind is in a
... state of quietude, this is "to enter meditation," and when
... the single mind is released from quietude, this is to
... "emerge from meditation." To "know all those" is to know
... the original enlightenment that is both quietude and
... release from quietude. To enter meditation and emerge from
... meditation is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Beware of mixing practices, Noel. Nichiren Daishonin admonishes strictly against it (I have BOLDED the critical part to focus your attention):
From "Letter to Akimoto," WND I, pp. 1014-1015:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/144#para-7
... A vessel is a kind of utensil. Because the great earth is
... hollowed out, water collects on it; and because the blue
... sky is pure, the moon shines in it. When the moon rises,
... the water glows with a pure light; and when the rain falls,
... the plants and trees flourish.
...
... A vessel is hollowed out like the earth, and water can be
... collected in it the way water is stored in a pond. And the
... reflection of the moon floats on the surface of the water
... in the same way that the Lotus Sutra pervades our being.
...
... But a vessel is susceptible to four faults. The first is
... being upset or covered, which means that the vessel can be
... overturned or covered with a lid. The second is leaking,
... which means that the water leaks out. The third is being
... defiled, which means that the contents can be contaminated.
... Though the water itself may be pure, if filth is dumped
... into it, then the water in the vessel ceases to be of any
... use. The fourth is being mixed. If rice is mixed with filth
... or pebbles or sand or dirt, then it is no longer fit for
... human consumption.
...
... The vessel here stands for our bodies and minds. Our minds
... are a kind of vessel, and our mouths too are vessels, as
... are our ears. The Lotus Sutra is the Dharma water of the
... Buddha's wisdom. But when this water is poured into our
... minds, then we may jar and upset it. Or we may shut it out
... by placing our hands over our ears, determined not to
... listen to it. Or we may spit it out of our mouths,
... determined not to let our mouths chant it. In such cases,
... we are like a vessel that has overturned or has had a lid
... placed on it.
...
... Again, although we may have a certain amount of faith, we
... may encounter evil influences and find our faith weakening.
... Then we will deliberately abandon our faith, or, even
... though we maintain our faith for a day, we will set it
... aside for a month. In such cases, we are like vessels that
... let the water leak out.
...
... Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra
... whose mouths are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment,
... but Namu Amida Butsu the next. This is like mixing filth
... with one's rice, or putting sand or pebbles in it. THIS IS
... WHAT THE LOTUS SUTRA IS WARNING AGAINST WHEN IT SAYS,
... "DESIRING ONLY TO ACCEPT AND EMBRACE THE SUTRA OF THE GREAT
... VEHICLE AND NOT ACCEPTING A SINGLE VERSE OF THE OTHER
... SUTRAS." [NOTE 1. LOTUS SUTRA, CHAP. 3.]
...
... THE LEARNED AUTHORITIES IN THE WORLD TODAY SUPPOSE THAT
... THERE IS NO HARM IN MIXING EXTRANEOUS PRACTICES WITH THE
... PRACTICE OF THE LOTUS SUTRA, AND I, NICHIREN, WAS ONCE OF
... THAT OPINION MYSELF. BUT THE PASSAGE FROM THE SUTRA [THAT I
... HAVE JUST QUOTED] DOES NOT PERMIT SUCH A VIEW.
Mixing seated meditation (basically Soto Zen) with Nichiren Daishonin's practice of the Lotus Sutra is not just a small evil, it undermines your future entirely.
-Chas.
________________________________________
On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:33:00 AM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:46:30 AM UTC+10, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > The gosho that mentions shikan meditation says that priests that have wisdom can do that. Is noel a Priest ?
> >
> > ~ Katie
>
> Wisdom is the keyword here
Gee Noel, you really are accelerating away from Nichiren Daishonin at a greater rate, now. Now you ignore his direct admonitions regarding what the meditation on Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is (I have UPPER-CASED the critical instruction in the vain hope that you might pay attention):
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/Separate-Transmission/1#para-137
--> This passage is saying that when the single mind is in a
--> state of quietude, this is "to enter meditation," and when
--> the single mind is released from quietude, this is to
--> "emerge from meditation." To "know all those" is to know
--> the original enlightenment that is both quietude and
--> release from quietude. TO ENTER MEDITATION AND EMERGE FROM
--> MEDITATION IS NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO.
And you ignore what Nichiren Daishonin SPECIFICALLY STATES NOT TO DO in a Gosho written five years before his death (late in Gosho history):
From "On the Four Stages of Faith," WND I, p. 788:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/94#para-36
--> QUESTION: WHY DO YOU NOT ADVOCATE THE MEDITATION ON THE
--> THREE THOUSAND REALMS IN A SINGLE MOMENT OF LIFE, BUT
--> INSTEAD SIMPLY ENCOURAGE THE CHANTING OF THE DAIMOKU?
-->
--> Answer: The two characters that comprise the name Japan
--> contain within them all the people and animals and wealth
--> in the sixty-six provinces of the country, without a single
--> omission. And the two characters that make up the name
--> India—do they not likewise contain within them all the
--> seventy countries of India? Miao-lo says, "When for the
--> sake of brevity one mentions only the daimoku, or title,
--> the entire sutra is by implication included therein." He
--> also says, "When for the sake of brevity we speak of the
--> Ten Worlds or the ten factors, the three thousand realms
--> are perfectly encompassed therein."
-->
--> When Bodhisattva Manjushrī and the Venerable Ānanda came to
--> compile all the words spoken by the Buddha at the three
--> assemblies during the eight years [in which the Lotus Sutra
--> was preached], they wrote down the title Myoho-renge-kyo,
--> and to show their understanding [that the entire sutra is
--> contained in these five characters], they proceeded with
--> the words "This is what I heard."
Chas.
_________________________________________
Quoting from "The Entity of the Mystic Law", Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, p. 418 ...
The Complete and Final Teaching on Perfect Enlightenment Sutra declares, "The beginningless illusions and ignorance that beset all living beings are all produced by the perfectly enlightened mind of the Thus Come Ones."
On Thursday, November 30, 2017 at 1:58:34 AM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
>
> But Nichiren lived in the 1200s! OOPSIE!!! So naturally, since religious people have little use for facts unless they suit their own religious purposes, they just moved Shakyamuni back another 500 years in order to make the timeline work for Nichiren.
>
> Its also said that Shakyamuni didn't teach the Lotus Sutra but rather a group of enlightened monks at a later time during one of the Buddhist councils.
>
> What is more important to me is not who said what and when but rather the substance of what it is that has been said such as the theory of ichinen sanzen that is the heart of the Lotus Sutra that Chih-i systemised and Nichiren materialised through Nama Rupa/name and Form Ji no ichinen sanzen, Daimoku and Gohonzon
BTW, Noel, the very thought that you could divorce Shakyamuni from the Lotus Sutra demonstrates, without a doubt, that you are adrift on an "ocean of nescience" to anyone who understands the fundamental and genetic relationship between the lotus, the entity and enlightenment thereof.
The very idea that Shakyamuni could preach the Juryo chapter without the title of Saddharma Pundarika Sutra is completely erroneous. There is a critical and necessary relationship between the Lotus and the entity of the mystic Law, in all versions of the Lotus Sutra preached by any of the Great Buddhas, anywhere, anytime.
The only source of enlightenment anywhere, anytime, is the Lotus Sutra with the Law at the heart of it. That is what the Gohonzon is all about.
There is no other preaching that can discuss true enlightenment than the Lotus Sutra.
If Shakyamuni was a Great Buddha, he could only be preaching the Lotus Sutra as his highest teaching. Since that is true, then his later followers did not create that teaching by augmentation.
Nichiren Daishonin makes this much more clear than I can in "The Opening of the Eyes" and the "Entity of the Mystic Law" Goshos.
You are clearly and unmistakably lost, Noel.
-Chas.
___________________________________________________________
On Friday, December 1, 2017 at 6:51:56 PM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
>
> Aren't we all but just don't know it! Thinking that we have found the Golden fleece that gives us a temporary sense of well being for now when we are more like particles of dust blowing in the winds of eternity to where ever, thinking that we are in control of our eternal destiny.
>
> All are like straw men building kingdoms on the imaginations of others or our own. Clasping at these conceptual straws is more like the brutal truth of it all, however, there is a peace that surpasses all understanding that exists within us all that is not dependent on word, thought and deed, if only the insane mind can sense it for a second, there would be a way out of this Bedlam
>
> So happens I experience this peace while chanting in front of the Gohonzon and when sitting in silent Meditation as in the tradition of many of the great masters of pre-Buddhist and Buddhist times which happens to be non-exclusive of any persuasions
>
> You can spin all the concepts you like to entangle those you seek to trap but you can never have control over that which is beyond time and space, birth and death yet exist within it. It is the intelligence through which all is orchestrated that has no difference from us.
>
> The paradox of Nam[u] Myoho Renge Kyo is that it is a name for that which cannot be named
>
> Noel
The poignant pathos expressed in that non sequitur statement leaves me a little breathless. And silent meditation is mixing practices with Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. As it says in the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, the only meditation in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra is chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/Separate-Transmission/1#para-137
... This passage is saying that when the single mind is in a
... state of quietude, this is "to enter meditation," and when
... the single mind is released from quietude, this is to
... "emerge from meditation." To "know all those" is to know
... the original enlightenment that is both quietude and
... release from quietude. To enter meditation and emerge from
... meditation is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Beware of mixing practices, Noel. Nichiren Daishonin admonishes strictly against it (I have BOLDED the critical part to focus your attention):
From "Letter to Akimoto," WND I, pp. 1014-1015:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/144#para-7
... A vessel is a kind of utensil. Because the great earth is
... hollowed out, water collects on it; and because the blue
... sky is pure, the moon shines in it. When the moon rises,
... the water glows with a pure light; and when the rain falls,
... the plants and trees flourish.
...
... A vessel is hollowed out like the earth, and water can be
... collected in it the way water is stored in a pond. And the
... reflection of the moon floats on the surface of the water
... in the same way that the Lotus Sutra pervades our being.
...
... But a vessel is susceptible to four faults. The first is
... being upset or covered, which means that the vessel can be
... overturned or covered with a lid. The second is leaking,
... which means that the water leaks out. The third is being
... defiled, which means that the contents can be contaminated.
... Though the water itself may be pure, if filth is dumped
... into it, then the water in the vessel ceases to be of any
... use. The fourth is being mixed. If rice is mixed with filth
... or pebbles or sand or dirt, then it is no longer fit for
... human consumption.
...
... The vessel here stands for our bodies and minds. Our minds
... are a kind of vessel, and our mouths too are vessels, as
... are our ears. The Lotus Sutra is the Dharma water of the
... Buddha's wisdom. But when this water is poured into our
... minds, then we may jar and upset it. Or we may shut it out
... by placing our hands over our ears, determined not to
... listen to it. Or we may spit it out of our mouths,
... determined not to let our mouths chant it. In such cases,
... we are like a vessel that has overturned or has had a lid
... placed on it.
...
... Again, although we may have a certain amount of faith, we
... may encounter evil influences and find our faith weakening.
... Then we will deliberately abandon our faith, or, even
... though we maintain our faith for a day, we will set it
... aside for a month. In such cases, we are like vessels that
... let the water leak out.
...
... Or we may be the kind of practitioners of the Lotus Sutra
... whose mouths are reciting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo one moment,
... but Namu Amida Butsu the next. This is like mixing filth
... with one's rice, or putting sand or pebbles in it. THIS IS
... WHAT THE LOTUS SUTRA IS WARNING AGAINST WHEN IT SAYS,
... "DESIRING ONLY TO ACCEPT AND EMBRACE THE SUTRA OF THE GREAT
... VEHICLE AND NOT ACCEPTING A SINGLE VERSE OF THE OTHER
... SUTRAS." [NOTE 1. LOTUS SUTRA, CHAP. 3.]
...
... THE LEARNED AUTHORITIES IN THE WORLD TODAY SUPPOSE THAT
... THERE IS NO HARM IN MIXING EXTRANEOUS PRACTICES WITH THE
... PRACTICE OF THE LOTUS SUTRA, AND I, NICHIREN, WAS ONCE OF
... THAT OPINION MYSELF. BUT THE PASSAGE FROM THE SUTRA [THAT I
... HAVE JUST QUOTED] DOES NOT PERMIT SUCH A VIEW.
Mixing seated meditation (basically Soto Zen) with Nichiren Daishonin's practice of the Lotus Sutra is not just a small evil, it undermines your future entirely.
-Chas.
________________________________________
On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 2:33:00 AM UTC-8, Noel wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:46:30 AM UTC+10, Katie Higgins wrote:
> > The gosho that mentions shikan meditation says that priests that have wisdom can do that. Is noel a Priest ?
> >
> > ~ Katie
>
> Wisdom is the keyword here
Gee Noel, you really are accelerating away from Nichiren Daishonin at a greater rate, now. Now you ignore his direct admonitions regarding what the meditation on Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is (I have UPPER-CASED the critical instruction in the vain hope that you might pay attention):
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/Separate-Transmission/1#para-137
--> This passage is saying that when the single mind is in a
--> state of quietude, this is "to enter meditation," and when
--> the single mind is released from quietude, this is to
--> "emerge from meditation." To "know all those" is to know
--> the original enlightenment that is both quietude and
--> release from quietude. TO ENTER MEDITATION AND EMERGE FROM
--> MEDITATION IS NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO.
And you ignore what Nichiren Daishonin SPECIFICALLY STATES NOT TO DO in a Gosho written five years before his death (late in Gosho history):
From "On the Four Stages of Faith," WND I, p. 788:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/94#para-36
--> QUESTION: WHY DO YOU NOT ADVOCATE THE MEDITATION ON THE
--> THREE THOUSAND REALMS IN A SINGLE MOMENT OF LIFE, BUT
--> INSTEAD SIMPLY ENCOURAGE THE CHANTING OF THE DAIMOKU?
-->
--> Answer: The two characters that comprise the name Japan
--> contain within them all the people and animals and wealth
--> in the sixty-six provinces of the country, without a single
--> omission. And the two characters that make up the name
--> India—do they not likewise contain within them all the
--> seventy countries of India? Miao-lo says, "When for the
--> sake of brevity one mentions only the daimoku, or title,
--> the entire sutra is by implication included therein." He
--> also says, "When for the sake of brevity we speak of the
--> Ten Worlds or the ten factors, the three thousand realms
--> are perfectly encompassed therein."
-->
--> When Bodhisattva Manjushrī and the Venerable Ānanda came to
--> compile all the words spoken by the Buddha at the three
--> assemblies during the eight years [in which the Lotus Sutra
--> was preached], they wrote down the title Myoho-renge-kyo,
--> and to show their understanding [that the entire sutra is
--> contained in these five characters], they proceeded with
--> the words "This is what I heard."
Chas.
_________________________________________
Quoting from "The Entity of the Mystic Law", Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, p. 418 ...
The Complete and Final Teaching on Perfect Enlightenment Sutra declares, "The beginningless illusions and ignorance that beset all living beings are all produced by the perfectly enlightened mind of the Thus Come Ones."
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