SEX IN BAHAI FAITH
Erik M.
Saad Ahmed wrote:
>In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
>oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
Shoghi Effendi is quoted in Lights of Guidance as saying
that masturbation is not acceptable, exactly how he
put it i cannot remember.
erik
Rachel Woodlock
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 22:48:36 -0600, "Erik M." <eri...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>
>Saad Ahmed wrote:
>
>>In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
>>oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
>
Not all of them do - don't quote me, but I remember learning that so
long as impure substances weren't taken orally then it is okay, and I
know that Qaradawi rules that masturbation to stop a person from
committing adultery was permissible as well. See _The Lawful and the
Prohibited in Islam_. (Kuala Lumpur: Islamic Book Trust, 1985) p170
>Shoghi Effendi is quoted in Lights of Guidance as saying
>that masturbation is not acceptable, exactly how he
>put it i cannot remember.
"We have found in the Holy Writings no explicit references to
masturbation, but there are a number of principles and teachings which
can guide a Baha'i to the correct attitude towards it. In a letter to
an individual believer, written by the Guardian's secretary on his
behalf, it is pointed out that:
`The Baha'i Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but
condemns its illegitimate and improper expressions such as free love,
companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively
harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use
of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it
is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage
has been established. The Baha'is do not believe in the suppression
of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.'
"In response to another letter enquiring if there were any legitimate
way in which a person could express the sex instinct if, for some
reason, he were unable to marry or if outer circumstances such as
economic factors were to cause him to delay marriage, the Guardian's
secretary wrote on his behalf:
`Concerning your question whether there are any legitimate forms of
expression of the sex instinct outside of marriage: According to the
Baha'i Teachings no sexual act can be considered lawful unless
performed between lawfully married persons. Outside of marital life
there can be no lawful or healthy use of the sex impulse. The Baha'i
youth should, on the one hand, be taught the lesson of self-control
which, when exercised, undoubtedly has a salutary effect on the
development of character and of personality in general, and on the
other should be advised, nay even encouraged, to contract marriage
while still young and in full possession of their physical vigour.
Economic factors, no doubt, are often a serious hindrance to early
marriage but in most cases are only an excuse, and as such should not
be over stressed.'
"In another letter on the Guardian's behalf, also to an individual
believer, the secretary writes:
`Amongst the many other evils afflicting society in this spiritual low
water mark in history is the question of immorality, and over-emphasis
of sex...'
"This indicates how the whole matter of sex and the problems related
to it have assumed far too great an importance in the thinking of
present-day society.
"Masturbation is clearly not a proper use of the sex instinct, as this
is understood in the Faith. Moreover it involves, as you have pointed
out, mental fantasies, while Baha'u'llah, in the Kitab-i-Aqdas, has
exhorted us not to indulge our passions and in one of His well-known
Tablets Abdu'l-Baha encourages us to keep our `secret thoughts pure'.
Of course many wayward thoughts come involuntarily to the mind and
these are merely a result of weakness and are not blameworthy unless
they become fixed or even worse, are expressed in improper acts. In
`The Advent of Divine Justice', when describing the moral standards
that Baha'is must uphold both individually and in their community
life, the Guardian wrote:
`Such a chaste and holy life, with its implications of modesty,
purity, temperance, decency, and clean-mindedness, involves no less
than the exercise of moderation in all that pertains to dress,
language, amusements, and all artistic and literary avocations. It
demands daily vigilance in the control of one's carnal desires and
corrupt inclinations.'
"Your problem, therefore, is one against which you should continue to
struggle, with determination and with the aid of prayer. You should
remember, however, that it is only one of the many temptations and
faults that a human being must strive to overcome during his lifetime,
and you should not increase the difficulty you have by
over-emphasising its importance. We suggest you try to see it within
the whole spectrum of the qualities that a Baha'i must develop in his
character. Be vigilant against temptation, but do not allow it to
claim too great a share of your attention. You should concentrate,
rather, on the virtues that you should develop, the services you
should strive to render, and, above all, on God and His attributes,
and devote your energies to living a full Baha'i life in all its many
aspects."
(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to an individual
believer, a copy of which was sent to the compiler with a letter dated
March 8, 1981 quoted in Lights of Guidance, pages 364-365)
HMCMESOON
Pat Kohli
HMCMESOON wrote:
>
> What the heck is "Zina" and "Iiwat"?
Liwat is sodomy and zina is adultery.
Blessings!
- Pat
dar...@my-dejanews.com
Liwat= male homosexual behavior of any type (including that done by
heterosexual men fantasying they are having sex with a woman)
Masturbation (and pornography and sexual fantasy) is "discouraged", but not
"forbidden" as are zina and liwat. The word Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha use
for "forbidden" is "haram"; which means ABSOLUTELY forbidden (no exceptions).
In Shia Islam, from whence the Faith arose, everything is either: 1)
Forbidden 2) Discouraged 3) Neutral 4) Recommended 5) Obligatory
From my readings of the Writings it appears as if the same is true in the
Faith. Many American Baha'is I've met take "forbidden" to mean "it's YOUR
choice, but we recommend against it."
There is a new publication coming out called *Sexual Ethics in the Baha'i
Faith* from Stonehaven Press. You may want to get a copy. Darrick Evenson
Stonehaven Press:
http://www.stonehaven-press.com
In article <19990307114556...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
hmcm...@aol.com (HMCMESOON) wrote:
> What the heck is "Zina" and "Iiwat"?
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Rachel Woodlock
On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 21:39:40 GMT, dar...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>Zina= fornication (pre-marital sex), adultery (extra-marital sex), Lesbianism.
Tsk tsk ...
"There is among them a section who distort the Book with their
tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but
it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from God," but it is
not from God: It is they who tell a lie against God, and (well) they
know it!" (AL-I-IMRAN 3:78)
The word zina does not mean "lesbianism".
zanaa / zinaa / zinaa': to commit adultery, fornicate, whore
zinan: adultery; fornication
zinaa': adultery; fornication
zaanin (pl. zunaah) fornicator, adulterer
zaaniyah (pl. zanaanin) whore, harlot; adulteress
In actual fact the word for lesbianism is "assiHaaq" and a lesbian is
a "suHaa'ii". (See Al-Mauwrid, p523 if you don't believe me).
Regards
Rachel
dar...@my-dejanews.com
So, is Lebianism NOT forbidden in the Faith?
Darrick Evenson
In article <36e2f6a...@news.freeserve.net>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
dar...@my-dejanews.com
although engaging in "sexual fantasy" is "discouraged".
Darrick Evenson
In article <36E2FE47...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>,
Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote:
> WHAT? porn is discuraged but not forbidden?
>
> eh?
>
> dar...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Masturbation (and pornography and sexual fantasy) is "discouraged", but not
> > "forbidden" as are zina and liwat. The word Baha'u'llah and 'Abdu'l-Baha use
> > for "forbidden" is "haram"; which means ABSOLUTELY forbidden (no
exceptions).
> r Start Your Own
rli...@nils.com
From the Baha'i (well, my) perspective, 'what' is not as important as 'why':
sex is designed to be a medium of love between husband and wife.
It is a universal drive/urge, but must be controlled else it destroys, much
like other drives, such as the drive to acquire knowledge. Without spiritual
controls, the pursuit of knowledge leads to weapons of mass destruction.
Controlled, it leads to medicine and the Swiss Army knife.
In like manner, sex, when it controlls the individual, brings about his/her
ruin. AIDS anyone?
Anal sex, by the way, is prohibited in the Baha'i Faith. Re masturbation or
oral sex, I would presume they are not prohibited.
Hope this satisfies your urge.
;)
Robert A. Little
In article <36E1FB9B...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>,
Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote:
> Hi I am interested in what aspects of sex is okay. Does your
> book talk in detail about this?
>
> In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
> oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
>
> Sex during periods or fasting is also forbidden.
>
> Is your faith similar?
>
> Sorry for the subject but am curious.
Rachel Woodlock
> So, is Lebianism NOT forbidden in the Faith?
>Darrick Evenson
What has that to do with my post?
But to answer your question, a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, it
was written:
"No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the
same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is
wrong."
So I guess if you are happy to accept this particular "spin" of one of
Shoghi Effendi's secretaries....
Rachel
dar...@my-dejanews.com
The only 'spins' I accept from Shoghi Effendi's secretaries are those that
agree with the Writings. If they don't agree, then I don't accept. For
example, Baha'u'llah wrote against 'liwat' and 'zina'. If the secretaries
agree that both are forbidden, then I concur. If one of their letters say
'tis not so', then I am suspecious of it. I am CERTAINLY not going to accept
the 'spins' of Baha'is in the Office of the Secretariat; who _daily_
reinterpret the Writings and the Guardian. The 'House' itself has not "right
of interpretation"; much less the Office of the Secretariat. Darrick Evenson
In article <36e373c7...@news.freeserve.net>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Rachel Woodlock
And here we come to the crux of the situation:
Darrick:
> The only 'spins' I accept from Shoghi Effendi's secretaries are those that
>agree with the Writings. If they don't agree, then I don't accept.
But it is your perception as to whether or not they agree. For
example, I see absolutely no contradiction with the fact that the
Baha'i Faith teaches equality of men and women and that in a marital
situation husbands sometimes defer to wives and wives sometimes to
husbands. It seems to me that if you exalt one sentence of scripture
out of context from the whole canon, then it is perhaps you who are
putting the "spin" on (if I may be so bold as to make the accusation).
And you *still* haven't addressed the fact that this is the third time
I've caught you fabricating the meanings of Arabic words.
Rachel
Pat Kohli
Martin wrote:
>
> I searched for some time in many places the meaning of the word ruhi in «Ruhi
> institute». Is it the name of a Bahá'í martyr? How this name came to be
> selected for this institute?
>
> La langue internationale Ido
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/idolinguo.html
'Ruhi' means 'spirit'; this might be comparable to 'atmos' in some
Indo-European languages. I'm not sure if there is a specific person who
had that name, but it might not be very uncommon for a Baha'i name, Ruhi
or Ruhollah.
Blessings!
- Pat
Martin
I searched for some time in many places the meaning of the word ruhi in «Ruhi
institute». Is it the name of a Bahá'í martyr? How this name came to be
selected for this institute?
Martin
La langue internationale Ido
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/idolinguo.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Rachel Woodlock
>Did you see the thread about religion and science? Darrick has posted
>the 'Abdu'l Baha on Blacks' message to soc.culture.african.american
>http://x10.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=qs]/getdoc.xp?AN=452459686&CONTEXT=920948117.1403060282&hitnum=14
Hah! It's so off the planet I don't know where to start. Apart from
to state the fact that the Baha'i Faith arose out of an Islamic
context and Islam teaches that all people are created equal and that
the only person who is better is the one who is more pious. And Allah
knows best!
As somebody else pointed out, science is supposed to be the watchdog
of religion, making sure it doesn't fall into superstition. It seems
to me that when people use religion to support evil then, science has
a duty to respond and clear people's minds of this ignorance. However
if a person brandishes science like a religion (only putting forth
those conclusions that fit with his previous belief system) then that
person cannot claim to be using science as a tool of rationality.
Having said all of that,
Cornell tells us that Americans aren't getting dumber (<sarcasom on>
although recent posts about blacks on this newsgroup might throw the
national aggregate off somewhat <sarcasm off>):
http://www.news.cornell.edu/science/Nov97/race.class.ssl.html
They found that "Racial differences in intelligence narrowed by about
half between 1970 and 1988 and have since remained fairly constant"
which would seem to suggest that instead of being inherent in a race,
differences in intelligence are due to lack of access to education and
other factors that deprive one subunit or another of society .
Any other differences, as Tim pointed out, are inconsequential - for
example, my genetic makeup allows me to absorb more vitamin D from
sunlight than a black skinned person. If that makes me a better human
being then whipdidoo for me!
http://www.friesian.com/notes/note-b.htm has an interesting article as
well.
"...the argument is a relatively simple one: "innate" mental abilities
do not develop spontaneously but must undergo development, which is
differentially fostered by different cultures, even when the abilities
are general and abstract and do not consist of items of cultural
knowledge.
"Thus the difference between black and white IQ scores in the United
States is comparable to the difference between Protestant and Catholic
scores in Northern Ireland, or Ashkenazic and Sephardic scores in
Israel, where the question of racial differences is trival to
meaningless."
As this site says elsewhere, it is the application of "worth" to
matters of difference in race that makes racism such an abhorrant
evil. One to which I hope even my old nemesis Darrick has not fallen
prey.
Regards
Rachel
afshin.a...@utoronto.ca
I suggest baha'is ignore this pervert. He has been in alt.religion.islam for
a while and we all know him as a pervert and a trouble-maker. He has no
sincere desire for knowledge but likes to just mess around with people. All
he asks are sex questions (sometimes really twisted ones too) in religious
newsgroups and pokes fun at the sacred. This is my sincere advice to you
baha'is....ignore this pervert. There are serious issues to be discussed that
have to do with the salvation of our souls.
Peace,
Afshin
Answering Bahau'u'llah
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/main.htm
In article <36E1FB9B...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>,
Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote:
> Hi I am interested in what aspects of sex is okay. Does your
> book talk in detail about this?
>
> In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
> oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
>
> Sex during periods or fasting is also forbidden.
>
> Is your faith similar?
>
> Sorry for the subject but am curious.
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Martin
> 'Ruhi' means 'spirit'; this might be comparable to 'atmos' in some
> Indo-European languages. I'm not sure if there is a specific person who
> had that name, but it might not be very uncommon for a Baha'i name, Ruhi
> or Ruhollah.
Ruhi means 'Ascension of the soul' in sanskrit.
Amike,
Martin
La langue internationale Ido
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/8009/idolinguo.html
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
rlit...@my-dejanews.com
The person Pat was responding to is not a member of the Baha'i Faith, and
while he does have some knowledge, he appears to have neither accepted the
station of Baha'u'llah nor the faithfulness of His followers. I would
respectfully suggest that when reading his (Darrick's) posts you please keep
in mind that he is speaking for himself, and not as an acknowledged Baha'i.
On numerous topics, Darrick holds very strong opinions which are at odds with
the generality of Baha'is who post here.
I recommend that you visit bahai.com or bahai.org for accurate information on
the Baha'i Faith. Bahai.com has an extensive Arabic site as well.
One final comment. Much as Sunni Muslims refer to the haadiths (ahaadith?) for
guidance or interpretations of meaning, the Baha'i Faith has a medium of
guidance. Before the passing of Baha'u'llah, He appointed 'Abdu'l-Baha' to be
His only authorized interpretor, and the exemplar of His teachings. Before
'Abdu'l-Baha' died, He named Shoghi Effendi to be the Guardian of the Baha'i
Faith. Whenever Baha'is or Baha'i institutions wish to know or understand a
topic, they must read and study all three.
Thank you for your interest. May God guide you in your search for truth.
Robert A. Little
In article <36E58689...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>,
Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote:
> Pat Kohli wrote:
>
> > > Darrick:
> > > > The only 'spins' I accept from Shoghi Effendi's secretaries are those
that
> > > >agree with the Writings. If they don't agree, then I don't accept.
> > >
> > > But it is your perception as to whether or not they agree. For
> > > example, I see absolutely no contradiction with the fact that the
> > > Baha'i Faith teaches equality of men and women and that in a marital
> > > situation husbands sometimes defer to wives and wives sometimes to
> > > husbands. It seems to me that if you exalt one sentence of scripture
> > > out of context from the whole canon, then it is perhaps you who are
> > > putting the "spin" on (if I may be so bold as to make the accusation).
> >
> > Point out the out of context and inconsistent interpetations. We
> > wouldn't want Saad to get the wrong idea. It's bad enough that we are
> > allowed to eat pork which was not found dead.
>
> Excuse me? Whats Pork got to do with this thread.
Brian F. Walker
It seemed obvious to me from his earliest posts that this was phrased in
a way which suggested a perverted thought process. Nice to hear the
confirmation. Not that the topics in themselves have no merit ... just
the questioner is more concerned with his perversion than with the
spirituality of life.
Best regards,
Brian
afshin.a...@utoronto.ca wrote:
>
> Peace upon those that receive true guidance,
>
> I suggest baha'is ignore this pervert. He has been in alt.religion.islam for
> a while and we all know him as a pervert and a trouble-maker. He has no
> sincere desire for knowledge but likes to just mess around with people. All
> he asks are sex questions (sometimes really twisted ones too) in religious
> newsgroups and pokes fun at the sacred. This is my sincere advice to you
> baha'is....ignore this pervert. There are serious issues to be discussed that
> have to do with the salvation of our souls.
>
> Peace,
>
> Afshin
>
> Answering Bahau'u'llah
> http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3016/main.htm
>
> In article <36E1FB9B...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>,
> Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote:
> > Hi I am interested in what aspects of sex is okay. Does your
> > book talk in detail about this?
> >
> > In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
> > oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
> >
> > Sex during periods or fasting is also forbidden.
> >
> > Is your faith similar?
> >
> > Sorry for the subject but am curious.
> >
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
_________________________________________________________
Brian F. Walker
br...@bfwalker.com
http://www.bfwalker.com
Danny Blubaugh
Saad Ahmed <sa...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com> wrote in article
<36E1FB9B...@nospam.mobius8.u-net.com>...
> In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
> oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
> Sex during periods or fasting is also forbidden.
> Is your faith similar?
No. The only restriction is that sex be between husband and wife.
Danny Blubaugh
dar...@my-dejanews.com
dil.di...@gmail.com
> Greetings!
> Saad Ahmed wrote:
> >
> > Hi I am interested in what aspects of sex is okay. Does your
> > book talk in detail about this?
>
> > In Islam e.g. anal sex is forbidden, and jurists also say
> > oral sex and masturbation is forbidden.
>
> or prohibited.
> > Sex during periods or fasting is also forbidden.
>
> in the mood during the day when I'm fasting.
>
> > Is your faith similar?
>
> I think it is similar in general, but there are some differences.
> > Sorry for the subject but am curious.
>
> thing I'd like to tell people about, but you probably already know about
> God, prayers, etc.
>
> One Baha'i wrote up his views on sex and the "Kitab-i-Aqdas". Though
> his views are not authoritative, they might be rerpesentative of many
> Baha'is. http://bahai-library.org/conferences/sex.aqdas.html
>
> Blessings!
> - Pat
is anal sex is allowed in bahai religion after marriage?