Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha. Dr. C. Ainsworth Mitchell, 1930

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Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 16, 2007, 7:05:04 AM3/16/07
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Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell was the widely-recognized handwriting
expert at the British Museum who judged the purported will of Abdu'l-Baha to
be a fraud. Ruth White placed Dr. Mitchell's signed Report on the Writing
Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha with the Library
of Congress in 1930.

"That is to say, the writing does not agree with the hypothesis that
it was all written by one person."

"A minute comparison of the authenticated writing with the writing on
every page of the alleged will . . . has failed to detect in any part of the
will the characteristics of the writing of Abdu'l-Baha, as shown in the
authenticated specimens."


Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of
Abdu'l-Baha.
Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell. Certified Copy, Library of Congress
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm


--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/


Viv

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Mar 16, 2007, 1:24:02 PM3/16/07
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On 16 Mar, 11:05, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website"

<bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote:
> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell was the widely-recognized handwriting
> expert at the British Museum who judged the purported will of Abdu'l-Baha to
> be a fraud. Ruth White placed Dr. Mitchell's signed Report on the Writing
> Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha with the Library
> of Congress in 1930.
>
> "That is to say, the writing does not agree with the hypothesis that
> it was all written by one person."
>
> "A minute comparison of the authenticated writing with the writing on
> every page of the alleged will . . . has failed to detect in any part of the
> will the characteristics of the writing of Abdu'l-Baha, as shown in the
> authenticated specimens."
>
> Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of
> Abdu'l-Baha.
> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell. Certified Copy, Library of Congresshttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm
>
> --
> Frederick Glaysher
> The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Consciencehttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

>
> See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominationshttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Still no answer to the basic point - that Mitchell was a chemist who
specialised in detecting forgeyr through the analysis of inks and
papers, not primarily a handwriting expert - and yet he was the best
Mrs White could do, which tells us somehting about the weakness of her
case.

Fred and Nima have this in common - they continue to spam and lie
irrespective of facts. Fred shuns those who speak contrary to him,
Nima does the swearing + spam + subject change thing. And each of them
has set himself up as a person of spiritual insight!

Viv.

Death to Bahaism

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Mar 16, 2007, 7:51:46 PM3/16/07
to
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thre...
"It is interesting how the NSA can lament about the Egyptian case that
prevents them from calling themselves Baha'i, but they have no problem
seeking a court order to prevent the Orthodox Baha'is from doing the
same thing. In effect, they want us to recant our Faith."

1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais

The BAHAIM Technique

Caution - THE BAHAI TECHNIQUE

"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,
Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,
Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,
Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS


bayani....@gmail.com

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Mar 17, 2007, 1:48:29 AM3/17/07
to
> Viv.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Two excerpts from Abdul Baha’s Testament were released for
publication, one for consumption by Oriental Bahais and the other by
occidental Bahais. Any reference to alleged fratricide is suppressed
in the excerpts intended for occidental consumption but it would serve
as an eye-opener. Baha’s sons, Muhammad Ali and Ibn-al-Baha Badiullah,
their issues, Baha’s members of family and relatives, the BÂB’s
relatives, and Muhammad Ali’s partisans who resisted Abdul Baha’s
claims are not designated by name in Abdul Baha’s Testament. Muhammad
Ali is referred to as the Center of Sedition and all the rest is
clubbed together and dubbed as the company of Covenant-Breakers which
expression in eludes also Muhammad Ali. The term Aghsan (Branches)
refers to Muhammad Ali and Ibn-al-Baha Badiullah who survived Abdul
Baha and the the term Twigs (Afnan) means the Point’s kindred and
relatives. Reasons for non-designation by name are not far to seek:
disclosures of the names of Covenant-Breakers would have been fatal to
Abdul Baha’s vested interests.
Appended questions are from the Excerpts from the Will & Testament of
Abdul Baha Abbas, the Bahai World, Vol II, 1926-1928. PP. 81-89.

Facsimile of the cover of Sir Abbas Efendi’s Will and Testament, with
a note inscribed upon it by Mirza Badiullah penned in his own
handwriting.

Facsimile of page 8 of the Will, with a marginal note by Mirza
Badiullah penned in his handwriting.

Requisites of A Will
Requisites of a Will are that it should be signed by the testator,
witnessed and dated. A codicil must be executed and witnessed in the
same manner precisely as a Will. No Will has any effect until it has
been proved. Probate of a Will may be granted by a court or tribunal
upon the application of an interested person in accordance with the
provisions of the relevant laws.

Sir Abbas Effendi died in Haifa, in the Holy Land on November 28,
1921. Sir Abbas Effendi left a Will and Testament, in which he
supplanted his half-brother Mirza Muhammad Ali, his successor-in-
office under Baha’s Will and Testament, in favour of his own grandson
Shoghi Effendi, whom Sir Abbas Effendi designated as the Guardian of
the Cause.

Without going into the question whether Sir Abbas Effendi’s Will
fulfils the requisites of a Will, no application was made by Shoghi
Effendi to a court or a Moslem ecclesiastical tribunal for grant of
probate. Likewise no proceeding were initiated by Mirza Muhammad Ali
for discovery on the grounds that Sir Abbas Effendi’s Will was ultra
vires of Baha’s Will. Neither party was willing to come forward and
contest the validity or otherwise of Sir Abbas Effendi’s Will before a
court or tribunal, as such a course was found to drag in Baha’s Will,
with his pretensions to divinity with unfavourable consequences to
both partisan pretensions which both parties meticulously sought to
keep under carpet, as Bahaism was an exportable commodity and not for
home consumption.

An Overview of The Will
Disregarding its defects in law, and without arguing whether it was
tampered with or not, Sir Abbas Will and Testament, with its title and
date, will be noticed on its merits contained in its printed version,
published by the Bahai Spiritual Assembly, Cairo, Egypt on Shawwal 27,
A.H. 1342 (June 1, 1924).
The colophon in page 29 runs as follows:
« پس از استئذان و تصویب و اجازه محفل روحانی مصر و درگاه میرزا
ابوالقاسم کاستانه شیرازی موفق به طبع گردید و مجانّا تقدیم خواهد شد. فی
یوم المسائل من شهر المعضمة سنه 81 موافق 17 شوال سنه 1242 »
المحفلی الروحانی بهائی
قاهره
The cover which forms page one of the Will is intituled as follows:
“Epistle of Holy behest of His Holiness Abdul Baha.”
الواح و وصایای مبارکه حضرت عبدالبهاء
The title and the contents of the Will consists of several epistles
which were written at different times. Support to lent to this view by
Mirza Abd-al-Husayn Ayati surnamed Awara in his al-Kawakib-al-
Durriyya, Vol. II, PP. 330-331, composed by him before his abjuration
of Bahaism and return to the fold of Islam.
The Will is in Persian, interjected with invocation in Arabic. The
Will is made of the following four Epistles:
Page Heading Initial or Signature
2-17 He is God A.A (Ayn Ayn first letters of Abdul Baha Abbas)
17 nil A.A
17-24 He is God A.A
24-25 He is God, the Witness, the All Sufficing
A.A
25-38 nil Abdul Baha Abbas

For the purpose of this study, Sir Abbas Effendi’s Epistles of
testamentary disposition will be referred to as Sir Abbas Effendi’s
Will and Testament.
In P. 11 Sir Abbas Effendi states that the document embodying his
testamentary disposition was affected with humidity as it was kept
intact and undisturbed as the Holy land was in a state of upheaval.
The text runs as follows:
این ورقه مدتی در زیر زمین محفوظ بود رطوبت در آن تأثیر نموده چون بیرون
آورده شد ملاحظه گردید که رطوبت بعضی مواقع تأثیر نموده و چون بقعة
مبارکه در اشد انقلاب بود ورق به حال خود گذاشته شد.

In the Will Sir Abbas Effendi refers to himself as the Centre of the
Covenant, a title to which strong exception is taken by the opposition
camp on the grounds that the Centre of the Covenant is “god alone,
Baha, who himself covenanted with himself before the creation of the
heaven and the earth that man should worship none save god, as when he
says ‘He took the Covenant at the time of the Dawn from those who
believed that they should worship none but god.” Materials for the
Study of the BÂBi Religion by Prof. Browne, P. 111.
قد اخذ المیثاقه ؟ ؟ من الذین آمنوا بالله ان لا یعبدو الا الله
In the Will members of the opposite camp are referred to as Violators
of the Covenant or Covenant-Breakers, and Mirza Muhammad Ali, head of
the opposite camp, is branded as the Centre of sedition or Focal
Centre of hate, the Fallen Branch, to the accompaniment of some other
epithets.

The Will contains:
a) allegations against Subh-i-Azal
b) allegations against Mirza Muhammad Ali
c) allegations against Mirza Badiullah
d) a provision for the appointment of Shoghi Effendi as the Guardian
of the Cause of god and for succession of his lineal descendants; but
no provision is made for succession in the event of Shoghi Effendi’s
death without issue; and
e) a provision for houses of justice, national and international

Certain documents purporting to be in support of the allegations
preferred against Mirza Muhammad Ali and Mirza Badiullah and referred
to in the Will as enclosures thereto do not appear in the printed copy
of the Will. This defect is significant.
Excerpts from Sir Abbas Effendi’s Will appear in the Bahai World, Vol.
II, April 1926 – April 1928, New York, PP. 98-99; PP. 81-89.

http://www.bayanic.com/notes/Abbas/AbbasWill-03.html

Steve Blomberg

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 17, 2007, 7:52:46 AM3/17/07
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Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 17, 2007, 8:08:30 AM3/17/07
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A bibliography of Dr. Mitchell's 18 works on various aspects
of forensic science may be found at the bottom of the page
at this link:

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 18, 2007, 10:07:21 AM3/18/07
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A bibliography of Dr. C. Ainsworth Mitchell's published work is available from the Library of
Congress at the bottom of this page.

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell
Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

Link to Library of Congress SEARCH for your own confirmation: C. Ainsworth Mitchell


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YOU SEARCHED: Author/Creator Browse = mitchell c. ainsworth
SEARCH RESULTS: Displaying 1 through 18 of 18.
# Name Heading Name: Main Author, Creator, etc. Full Title Date
[ 1 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Allen, Alfred Henry, 1847-1904. Allen's
Commercial organic analysis; a treatise on the properties, modes of analysis, and proximate
analytical examination of the various organic chemicals and products employed in the arts,
manufactures, medicine, etc.; with concise methods for the detec 1923

ACCESS:
Jefferson or Adams Bldg General or Area Studies Reading Rms

CALL NUMBER:
QD271 .A45 1923

[ 2 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Fresenius, Theodor Wilhelm, 1856- [from
old catalog] Introduction to qualitative chemical analysis, by Th. Wilhelm Fresenius. 1921

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CALL NUMBER:
QD81 .F8 1921

[ 3 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Documents and their scientific examination with especial reference to the
chemistry involved in cases of suspected forgery, investigation of disputed documents, handwriting,
etc., 1922

SELECT TITLE FOR HOLDINGS INFORMATION
[ 4 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Edible oils & fats, by C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1918

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CALL NUMBER:
TP670 .M5

[ 5 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Expert witness and the applications of science and of art to human
identification, criminal investigation, civil actions & history / by C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1923

ACCESS:
Law Library Reading Room (Madison, LM201)

CALL NUMBER:
K2283 .M57 1923

[ 6 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Expert witness and the applications of science and of art to human
identification, criminal investigation, civil actions & history, by C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1923

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LAW

[ 7 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Fibres used in textile and allied industries, by C. Ainsworth Mitchell and R. M.
Prideaux, F.I.C. 1910

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CALL NUMBER:
TS1540 .M6

[ 8 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Flesh foods, 1900

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CALL NUMBER:
TX555 .M5 (Rare Bk. Coll.)

[ 9 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Forensic chemistry in the criminal courts. 1938

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RA1057 .M57

[ 10 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Ink, by C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1923

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TP946 .M65

[ 11 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Inks--- 1904

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TP946 .M68

[ 12 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Inks: their composition and manufacture, including methods of examination and a
full list of British patents, 1937

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CALL NUMBER:
TP946 .M68 1937

[ 13 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Oils, animal, vegetable, essential, and mineral. 1916

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TP670 .M513 1916

[ 14 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Recent advances in analytical chemistry. Editor: C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1930

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QD75 .M5

[ 15 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Scientific detective and the expert witness, by C. Ainsworth Mitchell. 1931

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[ 16 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles
Ainsworth), 1867- Vinegar: its manufacture and examination. By C. Ainsworth Mitchell, with 5 plates
and 49 other illustrations. 1916

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TP445 .M6

[ 17 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Oppenheimer, Karl, 1874- Ferments and
their actions. By Carl Oppenheimer ... Tr. from the German by C. Ainsworth Mitchell ... 1901

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QP601 .O62

[ 18 ] Mitchell, C. Ainsworth (Charles Ainsworth), 1867- Tognoli, Edgardo. Reagents and
reactions, by Edgardo Tognoli ... Tr. from the Italian by C. Ainsworth Mitchell ... 1918

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Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 19, 2007, 8:05:32 AM3/19/07
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CAUTION - Susan Maneck: A Widely-Recognized Liar and Slanderer

NOTE Maneck's disclosure that she's hiding behind
the false identity of Hasl...@aol.com from which she posted:

"Once a religion becomes organized it is no longer a 'family affair.' "
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/be7d06aae33c2848?dmode=source&hl=en

" Read what I said, Ron. I said when *religions* get organized they are
no longer family affairs."
http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/dde7a4eb485f3207?dmode=source&hl=en

--

CAUTION - Susan Maneck: A Widely-Recognized Liar and Slanderer

Dear Newcomer:

Susan Maneck is a widely-recognized liar and slanderer,
which is documented below by many, many people on
talk.religion.bahai and elsewhere in Baha'i cyberspace:

Susan Maneck, Baha'i scholar:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck8.htm

Rod Wicks, January 22, 2004:
I disagree...and my disagreement is based on years of online discussions
in which Susans [Maneck] propensity to accuse (openly or through innuendo)is
reflected by other fundamentalist Baha'is. So too the evasiveness, the glib,
trite smarmy non answer, the drive by 'blipvert' of one line innuendo, the
refusal to stand and defend/justify/explain any attack or allegation, the
retreat into cowards killfile when her dishonesty is exposed.....all these
are common features of what has been described as the Baha'i Technique.
I did not believe such a phenomena could exist when I first came online...
today the evidence is irrefutable and undeniable. Susan M perfectly reflects
all that is worst about contemporary Baha'i culture...'they' know it and
love her for it.

No....Manic and fundamentalist co workers do not simply "represent" the
Baha'i community...they *ARE* the community...their identification is
total/complete. Any criticism of any aspect of Baha'i is perceived by
Manic and Co as a direct personal attack and they respond by attacking
the individual rather than the argument. They will invent and
manufacture 'enemies of the faith', 'violators of the Covenant' and
even stoop to open allegations of criminal activity.

The AO cannot possibly be deaf, dumb and blind to this activity any
more than the online Baha'i gallery and lurkers are blind to it.
It is granted approval, formal or informal, open or tacit...it matters
not.

The truth is apparent in examination of the facts...the facts are
available in review of the archives...the archives reveal incident
after incident/event after event in which Susan (or co fundamentalist)
levels a baseless and unprovoked serious allegation, refuses substantiation,
hides behind glib and evasive [expletive] and/or killfile and receives
open or tacit support for doing so.

Susan represents a prevailing culture of abuse, slander, denial and
evasion.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8ccded73.0401212239.6e99f512%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

"In short, she has lied and made misleading statements about
me in the past and this recent statement of hers is just
another example of her lack of honesty." Steven Scholl
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm

"...she has behaved toward me in an academic setting
with dishonesty and deceit in such a way as deprives her
of the right to debate me publicly. She spied on me and
lied about it. She betrayed confidences in such a way as
to cause her academic colleagues to demand and get her
resignation from a position she had held." Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole20.htm

Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."

"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"

"Isn't it sort of suspicious that she shows up at AOL
backbiting me so assiduously on a forum where I am not
even present? ... Is the only way to stay a Baha'i
to capitulate morally in this way?" Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole19.htm

"As for Maneck's relationship to the Baha'i authorities,
she has herself boasted to common friends of ours of
corresponding with House members about how to 'deal with
Cole', and she served as a spy on an academic editorial
committee for counselor Ghadirian, passing over to him
detailed reports on confidential discussions, one of
which she accidentally sharedwith an editor. And now
she wishes to make my revelation of this role itself
a reason for which *I* should be thought delusional?"
Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole74.htm

> [Susan Maneck's] notion of "integrity" is clearly revealed here- [snip]
> It involves misrepresentation, slander, psychic assumptions, refusal
> to substantiate or explain and repetitious ad hom as an evasive device
> to avoid acting in an ethical manner. [Susan Maneck's] will go to any
> lengths
> to avoid responding to a justifiable call for substantiation of her
> baseless allegations...she will cut, snip, evade, convolute and red
> herring her way away from the question.
> When called to account she will plead "hounding".
>
> All ethical connect to the notion of 'integrity' has been forfeit by
> her.
>
> Rod in news:8ccded73.03091...@posting.google.com

"You, Madam, are devoid of propriety, dignity and morality." El Baquiano
"Since I prize the Baha'i Faith, words that insult it are vile. And
since I never uttered nothing resembling them, I say that you are
falsely attribute them to me. You continuously imply that my
motivations are suspect and nefarious and that I am attacking the
Faith and its institutions. Yet in the face of irreproachable proof to
the contrary, you continue to add to your mound of lies.".El Baquiano


Further details on Baha'i scholar Susan Maneck at
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm

See her slandering other views as garbage:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck3.htm

See her slandering other views as litter:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck7.htm

See also messages related to her abuse of AOL :
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship.htm

Bahai institutions DRIVING people out - Maneck's "get over it" 9/17/03
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck9.htm

"Michael McKenny" <bn...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message news:etltq4$nht$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> Hi, Hasley.
>
> (Has...@aol.com) writes:
>> They could have said whatever they wanted. Shoghi Effendi would never
>> have made such a claim. He himself expected only to be called upon to
>> convene the Universal House of Justice. He had no idea there would be
>> a Guardianship.
>
> Thanks for your comments. That's interesting. So, you suggest that if this
> will didn't exist there wouldn't be a guardianship? I think, given the
> Shiite background of Baha'i, it's logical to expect at least some such
> institution, though maybe he would have been called "Commander of the
> Faithful", imam or caliph or all three. Just my opinion.
>
>> In any case, all who knew the Master, who knew Persian and were
>> familiar with His handwriting have testifed that this Will was written
>> in Abdu'l-Baha's own pen. This includes those who would later defy
>> Shoghi Effendi's authority. The only people who have asserted it was
>> not Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting are those who cannot even read the
>> script. That includes this so-called expert.
>
> So, no one who knew the handwriting of Abdu'l Baha doubted he actually
> wrote it, rather than dictate it? How many such reports do we have? How
> many actually saw the original, or a photocopy, rather than a copy in
> someone else's hand?
>
> Best Wishes,
>
> Michael


Viv

unread,
Mar 21, 2007, 5:26:01 AM3/21/07
to

Thanks for providing the evidence for what I have been sating all
along, Fred. The bibliography confirms that Mitchell's primary
interest lay in chemical detection of fraud by analysis of ink and
paper, and that handwiritng examination was _not_ his primary
interest.

And yet you keep troting him out as a handwriting expert and ignoring
the question - was this really the best Mrs White could do? With all
her money could she not find a first-line handwriting expert to
examine the Will/

Of course maybe she did, and we don't hear about that because she
didn't like the answer she got, and she puts up the grapholigical
analysis by a chemist instead as the best she could get.

Viv.

Asparagus

unread,
Mar 21, 2007, 12:26:09 PM3/21/07
to

"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1174469161....@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

>
> Thanks for providing the evidence for what I have been sating all
> along, Fred. The bibliography confirms that Mitchell's primary
> interest lay in chemical detection of fraud by analysis of ink and
> paper, and that handwiritng examination was _not_ his primary
> interest.

this is not a very good line of attack many people are experts in a general
field while specialising in parts of it for example a doctor is a doctor
even though he is expert on say cancer you would not say he could not
diagnose or treat common cold for example


> And yet you keep troting him out as a handwriting expert and ignoring
> the question - was this really the best Mrs White could do? With all
> her money could she not find a first-line handwriting expert to
> examine the Will/

from what we see in what fred sent mitchell did handwriting analysis you
will have to prove he was no good at it by showing cases where he got it
wrong fror example where another expert showed him to be at fault


Viv

unread,
Mar 26, 2007, 3:48:20 AM3/26/07
to
On 21 Mar, 17:26, "Asparagus" <k...@spimspam.com> wrote:
> "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message

What you say supports my points Asaparagus - that Mitchell was a
forgery-detection expert but his specialism was in the technical
aspects not in handwriting analysis, so wheeling him on as "a leading"
or, mendaciously "the leading" handwriting expert is like taking a
doctor who specialises in the treatment of brain cancers and using him
as an expert witness in a case involving bowel cancer. He would be
demolished in court and the question would be asked - why could not an
expert in bowel cancer be found if that's what the case is about? Such
a case would be demolished in court - which is, perhaps, why a legal
case was not brought to try to have Abdu'l-Baha's will overturned.

Viv.

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Mar 26, 2007, 9:24:22 AM3/26/07
to
The attempts in this thread to discredit Dr. Mitchell and Ruth White are the usual ones used for
over 75 years by the usurpers of the Faith of Baha'u'llah. Slander and ad hominem are no more
convincing now than they have ever been. Note the attempt to shift from his conclusions and call for
an examination of the original to the man himself.

I ask the reader to reflect on the fact that Dr. Mitchell remains one of the most respected forensic
researchers of the 20th century and is still quoted and cited by academics and legal experts. His
professional integrity is beyond question as is his ability to assess the authenticity of the
purported will itself. As the document curator for the British Museum, Dr. Mitchell used techniques
and methods still widely used and recognized whether or not one has a command of the language being
scrutinized. Knowledge of a language in and of itself has never been the essential for handwriting
experts, and informed people know that to be a fact. Those who seek to conceal the act of forgery
hope to confuse the uninformed about what is involved.

"Documents And Their Scientific Examiniation" (1920)
Author: C. Ainsworth Mitchell
Date 1920
http://www.archive.org/details/DocumentsAndTheirScientificExaminiation


Ruth White:
"Dr. Mitchell's report also shows that none of the handwriting of the alleged will is the same as
the authentic specimens of Abdu'l-Baha's handwriting that were submitted to him" (69).

"Most persons are unaware of the fact that handwriting experts use modern inventions that measure
the slants, the spaces, and the tremors of writing so accurately that it makes the difference
between two specimens of different writing overwhelmingly apparent, when these are enlarged, even
though one of the specimens may be so clever a forgery of the other as to appear identical to the
naked eye" (69-70).

"Those Bahais who assert that they are familiar with the handwriting of Abdu'l-Baha, and have
compared it with the writing of the will, and have found them identical, reveal the fact that they
are either totally unaware of the science used by the best handwriting experts, or else fear has
prompted them to assert their belief in the authenticity of the will--fear of being excommunicated
if they so much as question the document. This science that the best handwriting experts use is so
mathematically accurate that any number of experts using these modern inventions will arrive at the
same results" (70).

"Dr. Mitchell not only spent months examining the enlarged specimens submitted to him, but he
examined minutely every line of the ten photographs of the alleged will, and his conclusion is that
it is not written throughout by the same person. This fact, in addition to others, indicates that
the will is spurious, especially if we bear in mind that Shoghi Effendi, and the Spiritual Assembly
of Bahai's, assert that every word of it is written in the hand of Abdu'l-Baha. Also if we bear in
mind that it is undated and unwitnessed, and that it contradicts the teachings that both Baha'u'llah
and Abdu'l-Baha gave during their lifetimes--that the Bahai Cause is a spiritual democracy and not a
theocracy. The appointment of an hereditary guardianship contradicts this" (69).
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

Ruth White. Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament.
Beverly Hills: White, 1946.

It has always been the desperate strategy of those who forged a will for Abdu'l-Baha to discredit
the incontestable evidence of their perfidy.

--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm


"Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaice...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message
news:FL2dncblIM145GfY...@comcast.com...

Viv

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 3:46:37 AM3/27/07
to

This response is a fine specimen of the Glaysher Technique:

1. Do not actually address the points made by those who disagree with
you.
2. Condemn all disagreement with you as slander and ad hominem.
3. Repeat the original points.
4. Spam, spam, spam.

It is no slander or ad hom on Mitchell to point out the facts of his
expertise and career, facts which are supported by the material
Frederick Glaysher himself has posted.

It is no slander or ad hom to point out that Mrs Whyte, despite her
money and obsession, could not obtain the support of a forgery expert
who specialised in handwriting and was familiar with the Arabic
alphabet to support her contention that the Will was a forgery.

It is no slander or ad hom to point out that she gained no support
from the very people who stood to gain the most if the Will were shown
to be a forgery, and ask why.

These are Inconvenient Truths - and Mr Glaysher, as usual, fails to
address them but instead resorts to his default position - spam, ad
hominem, and shunning.

Viv.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 5:46:13 AM3/27/07
to
Viv ranted:

> It is no slander or ad hom to point out that Mrs Whyte, despite her
> money and obsession, could not obtain the support of a forgery expert
> who specialised in handwriting and was familiar with the Arabic
> alphabet

She sure did, and from within the family: Mirza Badi'ullah ibn al-
Baha. Read his will and testament and weep for yourself. He identifies
the actual forger:
http://www.bayanic.com/notes/MuhammadAli/MuhammadAli-01.html

W

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 5:47:40 AM3/27/07
to

Viv

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:00:41 AM3/27/07
to

This would be the "this week I support Muhammad Ali, this week I
support Abdu'l-Baha" weathervane Badiullah. Hardly a reliable witness.
And clealry deemed so by Mrs Whyte, who doesn't place any reliance on
him. And of course also deemed not enough to go to court with. If
that's the best you can do the Will rmeainds without serious contest.

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:06:21 AM3/27/07
to
Friends,

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930:

In addition to Dr. Mitchell's Report, these documents constitute the entire collection that Ruth
White deposited with the Library of Congress in 1930, now available online:

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm

Ruth White, Excerpts, Bibliography
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm


--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

"Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaice...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message

news:ju6dnZMns5QXVJrb...@comcast.com...

Viv

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:11:10 AM3/27/07
to
On 27 Mar, 13:06, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website"

<bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote:
> Friends,
>
> Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930:
>
> In addition to Dr. Mitchell's Report, these documents constitute the entire collection that Ruth
> White deposited with the Library of Congress in 1930, now available online:
>
> Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm
>
> Ruth White, Excerpts, Bibliographyhttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm
>
> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm
>
> --
> Frederick Glaysher
> The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Consciencehttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
> "Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in messagenews:ju6dnZMns5QXVJrb...@comcast.com...
> > (69).http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

>
> > Ruth White. Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament.
> > Beverly Hills: White, 1946.
>
> > It has always been the desperate strategy of those who forged a will for Abdu'l-Baha to discredit
> > the incontestable evidence of their perfidy.
>
> > --
> > Frederick Glaysher
> > The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> >http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
> > See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
> >http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
> > Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell
> >http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm
>
> > "Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message

> >news:FL2dncblIM145GfY...@comcast.com...
> >> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell was the widely-recognized handwriting
> >> expert at the British Museum who judged the purported will of Abdu'l-Baha to
> >> be a fraud. Ruth White placed Dr. Mitchell's signed Report on the Writing
> >> Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha with the Library
> >> of Congress in 1930.
>
> >> "That is to say, the writing does not agree with the hypothesis that
> >> it was all written by one person."
>
> >> "A minute comparison of the authenticated writing with the writing on
> >> every page of the alleged will . . . has failed to detect in any part of the
> >> will the characteristics of the writing of Abdu'l-Baha, as shown in the
> >> authenticated specimens."
>
> >> Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha.
> >> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell. Certified Copy, Library of Congress
> >>http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm
>
> >> --
> >> Frederick Glaysher
> >> The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> >>http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
> >> See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
> >>http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Same old same old. Still doesn't address the basic point.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:13:09 AM3/27/07
to
MOZDUR ranted:

> This would be the "this week I support Muhammad Ali, this week I
> support Abdu'l-Baha" weathervane Badiullah.

No, MOZDUR. That material has been sitting on Bayanic.com for 2 years
now. If you personally had cared to take your head out of your bottom,
you would realize it's not about supporting anyone, least of all the
children of a serpent made flesh. It is about revealing the
replicating patterns, the dark karma within the false creed of the
dajjal. Muhammad 'Ali and Badi'ullahs testamony on the contrived will
and testament of Abbas Effendi is independent of Ruth White's and her
expert. Both of them identify the forger and actual author of that
will as none other than the mother of Shoghi Effendi. Perhaps if your
house of pancakes made this document available now publicly and
allowed independent handwriting experts to compare it together with
samples of the writings of Shoghi Effendi's mum and other assorted
relatives around the household of Abbas Effendi, the truth could be
established once and for all that this thing is in fact an outright
forgery.

So let's see this will in public, if you fascists dare to bring it out
to public scrutiny.

W

Viv

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:16:23 AM3/27/07
to

That's a non sequitur of a response if ever there was one.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 8:33:23 AM3/27/07
to
MOZDUR ranted:
> That's a non sequitur of a response if ever there was one.- Hide quoted text -

On the contrary. Let's see the original "will and testament" of Abbas
Effendi now in 2007. You don't like Ruth White's expert, fine, we can
arrange several dozen experts in 2007 - and ones who know Persian-
Arabic handwriting - to take another look at this thing.

The non sequitor, red herring and straw man is all yours who refuse to
show this thing to anyone.

W

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 2:23:52 PM3/27/07
to
wahidaza...@gmail.com wrote

>The non sequitor, red herring and straw man is all yours who refuse to show this thing to anyone. W

--

They can't. It's a fraudulent will. Any qualified person
will agree with Dr. Mitchell, who was eminently qualified
to judge its authenticity in 1930. Only slander and the
Baha'i Technique have concealed it for the past 87 years
from most Bahais. That day is over. People can see for
themselves, with their own eyes, that something dreadfully
wrong has been perpetrated by the "administration." The
evidence is all over the Internet.... and in the ruins lives
and families of many tens of thousands of Bahais....


--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library of Congress
Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

"Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaice...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message

news:I_2dnQej69oilZTb...@comcast.com...

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 6:52:44 PM3/27/07
to
Dear Fred,

> >The non sequitor, red herring and straw man is all yours who refuse to show this thing to anyone. W
>
> --
>
> They can't. It's a fraudulent will.

Exactly. They can't and they won't show it for the very same reason
that tomes of other documentation have not been shown or released to
the public either by this mob. The whole Haifan outfit is a business
and a mafia. Should they ever release this documentation, the whole
house of cards (pun intended) will come crash tumbling down with a
bang, i.e. the business will fold. Maybe we're not that far away from
that day <*wink*>. The Godhead bless her, Ruth White did a superb job
of exposing the fraudulent nature of that document, and the Godhead
bless you for keeping this issue alive and in the public attention!
But no need to look any further than the wills of Muhammad Ali and the
memoirs of Badi'ullah to learn the actual identity of the forger:
Shoghi's mum, i.e. 'Abbas Effendi's own daughter.

W


Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 7:37:02 PM3/27/07
to
Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm

FROM Ruth White's 11 page letter to the High Comissioner of Palestine, 1932, available at the link
above:


"A sincere man in Shoghi's position should gladly have accepted my challenge for an investigation.
Any man confident of the justice of his case would, in fact, have courted and insisted upon an
impartial and judicial examination of the alleged will and of all the facts bearing on his claim to
Guardianship. Shoghi Effendi however, it can be seen, was congratulating himself that there was no
likelihood of the Palestine authorities considering the question. He shunned a test of the alleged
will and of his claims. And I have every reason to believe that his advice to his followers not to
hurt my feelings at that time was with a view to prevent me from pursuing the matter further."

--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm
Ruth White, Excerpts, Bibliography
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library of Congress
Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

"Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaice...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message

news:3v-dnXGmaeSm_JTb...@comcast.com...

Viv

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 3:41:52 AM3/28/07
to

Translation:

"The allegation has been made. The evidence put up to support it is
flimsy. The challenge to the evidence is ignored. Nonethless I, Nima
Hazini, demand that the Baha'i Faith prove its innocence on this
charge, because I hate it and so feel free to ignore the laws of
evidence and logic, and I'm sooooo important."

Viv

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 3:43:53 AM3/28/07
to
On 27 Mar, 19:23, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <

>
> They can't. It's a fraudulent will. Any qualified person
> will agree with Dr. Mitchell, who was eminently qualified
> to judge its authenticity in 1930.

Name some.


Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 5:26:14 AM3/28/07
to

> Translation:

The haifan bahaim refuse to allow the fraudulent will and testament of
Abbas Effendi to any independent forensic analysis at any time lest
this fraudulent will be proven a fraud yet again.

W

Viv

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 5:42:12 AM3/28/07
to

It hasn't been proven a fraud in the first place. And the Baha'i Faith
doesn't jump through your prejudice-driven sectarian hoops every time
you come up with a new wild allegation.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 8:23:46 AM3/28/07
to
On Mar 28, 7:42 pm, "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


> It hasn't been proven a fraud in the first place.

It certainly has. But we're being generous and telling you to offer it
up again to prove it so irrefutably. What are you afraid of, that it
will definitively be proven a forgery? Be afraid. Be very afraid.

W

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 8:24:55 AM3/28/07
to
Friends,

In addition to Dr. Mitchell's Report, these documents constitute the entire collection that Ruth
White deposited with the Library of Congress in 1930, now available online:

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm


--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

"Baha'i Censorship - See Website" <bahaice...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote in message

news:HOGdnQx814Q8N5Tb...@comcast.com...

Asparagus

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 8:49:55 AM3/28/07
to

"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1175067712.3...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

the evidence is good to disprove mitchell you will have to put up a report
by a better expert
you also have to prove he did not know persian handwriting considering he
was examiner for british museum this could be difficult
you also have to prove he took on job he was not qualified to do you
challenge the integrity of the man and must produce good evidence for this

to date asparagus not impressed by arguments on this topic

ps it hurts us to agree with abraxasshole but he is right at least on this
one occasion


Asparagus

unread,
Mar 28, 2007, 8:54:59 AM3/28/07
to

"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1175067833.4...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

in absence of sound evidence to contrary any expert would have to accept
mitchell report

likely conclusion is that if nobody can produce another report certifying
authenticity of challenged document it is because there is no such report as
document is fraudulent

evidence speaks louder than assertion to those who are intelligent enough to
grasp that concept

just because you dislike fred and abraxasshole never make mistake of judging
their comments by your dislike of them


Baha'i Censorship - See Website

unread,
Apr 8, 2007, 8:21:10 PM4/8/07
to
"In England, C. Ainsworth Mitchell was a public analyst interested primarily in questioned documents
and the chemistry of inks during the early twentieth century" (25).

Introduction to Forensic Sciences. William G. Eckert.
Published 1997 CRC Press
Legal Reference / Law Profession
390 pages
ISBN 0849381010

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Forensic-Sciences-Second-Library/dp/0849381010/ref=sr_1_1/104-9380573-1324751?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176077404&sr=1-1


The authenticity of my quotation from the Introduction to Forensic Sciences,
regarding Dr. C. Ainsworth Mitchell, may be verified by Previewing the book and selecting page 25.

NOTE WELL: In 1997, decades after his Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged
Will of Abdu'l-Baha in 1930, Dr. C. Ainsworth Mitchell's reputation in the field of "questioned
documents" continues to command the respect of his colleagues capable of evaluating his abilities
and of educating new students.

Viv

unread,
Apr 11, 2007, 4:03:44 AM4/11/07
to
On 9 Apr, 01:21, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website"

<bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote:
> "In England, C. Ainsworth Mitchell was a public analyst interested primarily in questioned documents
> and the chemistry of inks during the early twentieth century" (25).
>
> Introduction to Forensic Sciences. William G. Eckert.
> Published 1997 CRC Press
> Legal Reference / Law Profession
> 390 pages
> ISBN 0849381010

Fred has finally admitted what I was saying all along - that Mitchell
was a chemist whose primary area of expertiise was in the detection of
forgery through the analysis of paper and inks. He was not primarily a
handwriting expert. Yet in that regard he was the best Mrs White could
get. Go figure why Mrs White had to go to him - she couldn't get a
forensic handwriting specialist to back up her case, not one.

Viv.


Wahid Azal

unread,
Apr 11, 2007, 7:36:42 AM4/11/07
to
On Apr 11, 6:03 pm, "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Fred has finally admitted what I was saying all along

Fred has admitted nothing of the sort, O deluded cultist.

W

Viv

unread,
Apr 12, 2007, 4:03:52 AM4/12/07
to

Well, well, so the Man of Integrity has made you his spokesman has he?
Or is it somehting you took on all by yourself?

We all know you would deny something sitting right in front of you and
that's what you're doing here.

Which part of "In England, C. Ainsworth Mitchell was a public analyst


interested primarily in questioned documents

and the chemistry of inks during the early twentieth century" do you
deny Fred said?

Viv.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Apr 12, 2007, 7:36:51 AM4/12/07
to
On Apr 12, 6:03 pm, "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Well, well, so the Man of Integrity has made you his spokesman has he?

He doesn't need a spokesman when my job here is to smash my iron fist
in your collective teeth regardless.

W

Viv

unread,
Apr 12, 2007, 7:50:40 AM4/12/07
to

Of course it is. Let us know when you land a blow. We might not notice
otherwise.

Wahid Azal

unread,
Apr 12, 2007, 7:53:18 AM4/12/07
to
On Apr 12, 9:50 pm, "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> Of course it is. Let us know when you land a blow.

The blows have been devastating. Look at you, for example. Stop
playing the Monty Python Holy Grail Black Knight, since you're on no
legs, no hands and bleeding to death. You have been informed!

W

Viv

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Apr 12, 2007, 7:59:11 AM4/12/07
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Now it's Argument by Monty Python Reference. How delightfully nerdy.

Wahid Azal

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Apr 12, 2007, 8:02:54 AM4/12/07
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On Apr 12, 9:59 pm, "Viv" <viv_jacob...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


> Now it's Argument by Monty Python Reference. How delightfully nerdy.

Speak for yourself, nerd. You are bleeding badly and making a mess of
things too. Shoo...

W


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