AOL censorship via TOS allegations
Frederick Glaysher
Message Boards should make clear that I and a number
of other Bahais and non-Bahais believe fundamentalist Bahais
on AOL are abusing the TOS system in order to suppress the
opinions and views of people with which they do not agree....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>Date: 2/14/1999 1:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Smaneck
>Message-id: <19990214130206...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
>
>Christine asks:
>
>>Dearest Mr. Foster,
>>Who are you?
>>What is your authority?
>
>If I can answer for Dr. Foster. He is a professor of sociology at Johnson
>City Community College. He is hired by the head of the spirituality forums
to
>manage the Baha'i forum. Dr. Foster is a Baha'i. The leaders of each forum
>typically belong to the religion in question since the forums are designed
to
>support each religion.
He's paid MONEY for what he's doing!!!
>
>>Isn't this a Non-Baha'i board? Shouldn't a Non-bahi be in charge?
>
>Christine, we've been through this before.
Her point should not be brushed aside. It's a valid question, one I support.
Two previous Bahais have demonstrated they could not be fair Forum Leaders
and were dismissed by AOL. Speaking as a Bahai, I believe Foster has already
shown he is not playing fairly....
This is a non-Baha'i folder on the
>Baha'i Board. It is *not* a non-Baha'i Board. As such it is still bound by
>the TOS rules for spirituality forums which I placed up before. Folders do
>not have separate people in charge. The description of the folder is
>misleading and we have not been able to get that changed as yet. But TOS
>rules still apply regardless of how the folder is described.
>
>
>warmest,
>
>Susan Maneck
What is the name and address of the Spiritual ity Forum Leader who has hired
Mark Foster?
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Christine - TOS problems
>Date: 2/15/1999 4:10 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Chrrrstine
>Message-id: <19990215041017...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
>
>Sunni, You Wrote,
>>Christine
>>
>>If you sincerely feel that Baha'is are violating AOL TOS then you should
>>report them. AOL will make the decision if it is truly a violation or
not.
>
>>
>>You don't have to sit back and wait for someone else to do it if you think
>it
>>should be done. Just got to keyword: notify AOL and follow the
>instructions.
>>
>>Sunni
>>
>Sunni, A lot of Baha'is know about the double standard. It happened on a
>Crowded day. I Do not believe in TOSing people (Unless threatened) or
>ignoring people. I am confident to stand on my ability to defend my
beliefs.
>I wish only to be treated fairly by the online Baha'i community. Although I
>am slowly realizing that Fairness on this forum is impossible.
>Love,
>Christine
You're quite right.... Bahais are not playing fairly here and are abusing
the TOS system.
You can write the hos...@aol.com and TOSBo...@aol.com about this fact if
you like. I urge others concerned about the manner in which Mark Foster is
hitting people with false TOSs to make their views known to AOL.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 4:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Mr Mahdi
>Message-id: <19990215165123...@ng103.aol.com>
>
>Too bad you and Mark were the only ones that saw the post before yours
truly
>yanked them off the third time. 3 of my post were yanked off, and I am
being
>seriuos this time, I found my posts as one of most "mild" posts I writen.
>The post you just read was yanked because it didnt fit a post that belonged
>to a "support" forum. Oh well, like your posts are supporting and praising
>mines. I see the typical double-standard
>going on here.
>Mahdi
AOL does provide for a system of TOS appeal. Write TOSBo...@aol.com
regarding the double standards that are now being used to drive people off
these Boards. The hos...@aol.com should hear your views.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 6:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Mr Mahdi
>Message-id: <19990215183807...@ng35.aol.com>
>
>>It is not a double standard, Mahdi. It is a recognition that this is the
>>Baha'i Forum. There is also an Islamic forum. If I went to that forum and
>>attempted to promote the Baha'i Faith or its Teachings as preferable,
>better,
>>or (whatever term you choose), that would be TOSable, as well.
>
>This time I was responding to Susan calling me a joke and Wendy's use of
>racism in the chats to tick me off. I wasnt in this post unfortunately
>trying to invite people to Islam. But it is very clear that you allow
bahais
>to talk about non bahais in a bad way like Mike talking about gays and
Wendy
>talking about indoor plumbing, but when I respond to these comments I get
>blacklisted. I want you to repost the posts you yanked off and let the
>people
>here decide if a transgressed the limits of "TOS."
>Mahdi
Mahdi makes a valid point here. Wendy and other people of opinions other
than those that could be characterized as liberal are allowe to say and do
what they wish.... There is a double standard.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>This is then the root of problem. There should
be another Forum Leader or a second one to counterbalance this one.... It's
obivious given AOL having to fire Vahid and Edmund that this structure does
not work right for the Bahai Forums. Changing the personality makes no
difference....
>Subject: Re: Regarding the Threads
>Date: 2/16/1999 6:47 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990216064731...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>PL, the decision is made only by myself, as forum manager.
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Zaynab,
>Please do not refer to me as a enemy of the Baha'i. I have never said that.
>If you do so again, please state it as your opinion.
Why isn't Mark Foster hitting Zaynab with a TOS, if he's a fair player?
>2 As I stated in my censored post. I have not used profanity, on the chat
>boards.( other than one letter followed by **** after a two hour barrage of
>accusations) I have never been TOSed for doing that. I have witnessed
Baha'i
>use The F-word and not get TOSed. I asked the many baha'i in the room if
they
>TOSed the comment and They did not reply. So maybe this is an assumption.
But
>in my opinion You should be more tolerant of differing views on this
>board. It would make for more lively chat, and it would also show seekers
>that you could withstand the tough questions that the "world" religions (of
>which you want to be considered) Have to face every single day all over the
>world.
>I feel this board and the people in the chat rooms are looking at every
move
>I make with a micro- scope, just waiting for me to violate TOS and report
me.
>I guess that is to be exeted, fine, you have the rules on your side, but if
>you do not hold other people up to the same standards that you hold me up
to,
>then it seems obvious it is because I like to let seekers know that Woman
are
>banned from the Universal House Of Justice. (personally, I think if
>I didn't bring that up you would treat me a lot better) I hope every one
who
>has tried to TOS me will ask themselves "Would I have TOSed Christine If
she
>hadn't had said those comments against my faith?" If the answer is no, then
I
>would like an apology.
>
>Love,
>Christine.
Bahais are abusing AOL's TOS system to control and drive dissidents
away--it's obvious....
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Christine - TOS problems
>Date: 2/15/1999 4:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Chrrrstine
>Message-id: <19990215041728...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
>
>Parbelly wrote,
>> I guess it depends on who people will believe right Christine?
>
>No, it matters what the truth is.
>When I sat TOSed I mean a Baha'i gloating he sent off a letter to AOL. Or I
>got a (no subject) letter from Mark Foster> AOL has only sent me one
warning
>letter. I got that letter about 1/2 an hour after logging to the Beliefs
>Baha'i chat room for the first time. I had a cuss word in My profile and I
>Got TOSed for it.
>Love,
>Christine
Speaking as Bahai, this is all what is known as "Bahai love."
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Christine - TOS problems
>Date: 2/15/1999 6:28 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RobJ95
>Message-id: <19990215062845...@ng-fy1.aol.com>
>
>Christine:
>
> Regardless of your feelings about the Baha'i Faith, or whether you agree
or
>disagree with its goals or teachings, I can assure you that if you violate
>TOS, I would unhesitatingly report you.
What's happening here is Bahais are abusing and often falsely accusing
people of TOSs, often employing double standards in the process.
I've done so in the past with various
>people, and I will continue to do so in the future.
I don't doubt it for a moment. I encourage others who have been the victims
of this kind of abuse from Bahais to begin reporting them for every little
slip or infraction now to the TOSGeneral.
I've even TOSed
>individuals who have been positively inclined toward the Faith, but who
>insist on behaving improperly in the Bahá'í chat rooms; I offer no
apologies
>for
>this action; it is what every good online citizen should do, and what AOL
>requests that we do.
> Would I be more inclined to do so with you than with someone I'm on
>friendlier terms with? I'd probably have to say yes, since you go out of
>your way to be an irritant in the chat rooms; that's just human nature,
>flawed as it is.
Quite revealing above about the approach Bahais have to the TOS system....
Just because we Bahá'ís try to lead loving and tolerant
>lives doesn't mean we should allow ourselves to be treated like doormats.
Speaking as a Bahai of more than 22 years,
I believe Bahais are anything but tolerant....
>Only God's patience is boundless.
> In the final analysis, Christine, if you behave in an appropriate manner,
no
>one will have good reason to TOS you; if someone should TOS you without
>cause, AOL will determine that such is the case; either way, you would have
>nothing to worry about.
> If I were you, I'd carefully and dispassionately examine why so many
people
>seem intent on TOSing you, and see if there wasn't something I could do to
>change my behavior so as to avoid being TOSed in the first place.
I.e., you should submit to Bahai coercion....
Otherwise,
>if you are so concerned and distressed about (the possibility of) getting
>TOSed in the Bahá'í chat rooms and message boards, one sure remedy would be
>for you to stay out of them altogether.
Exactly the goal Bahais have here and elsewhere--DRIVE out those who have
the temerity to express any opinion other than their own. See
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
> Ultimately, it is up to you. Be assured of my prayers in your behalf.
>
>Sincerely, Rob.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Please read carefully The Bahai Technique and
reflect on how it's applicable here to the way the TOS system is being
abused by Bahais:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 1:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Smaneck
>Message-id: <19990215134627...@ng-cg1.aol.com>
>
>Mahdi writes:
>
>> I was expressing myself like I do always in these excellent posts.
>
>I think Mahdi should get the nomination for best joke of the day!
>
>> I mentioned my treatment by two very well known people here, let just
say
>>Mrs. W and Mrs/PhD S.
>
>You mean li'l ole me, Mahdi? You must be referring to the fact that
whenever
>you insist on harrassing me with unwanted and unwelcome IMs I keep
notifying
>AOL. I hope you have lots of credit cards, you'll need them!
>
>
>warmest,
>
>Susan Maneck
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 5:11 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990215171109...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>It is not a double standard, Mahdi. It is a recognition that this is the
>Baha'i Forum. There is also an Islamic forum. If I went to that forum and
>attempted to promote the Baha'i Faith or its Teachings as preferable,
better,
>or (whatever term you choose), that would be TOSable, as well.
There is a double standard in my opinion. Bahais don't want to hear anything
from Muslims and really dispise them.
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Please Read!!!
>Date: 2/15/1999 5:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990215172653...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>Folks,
>
>I am honestly getting tired of sending so many posts along to CAT
(Community
>Action Team -- the folks who handle TOS reports). However, I am required to
>do so, as a part of my volunteer position in this forum. But it is getting
>old rather quickly.
>
>May I make a personal plea that we please treat each other with the human
>dignity that each of us deserve?
What about Bahais, Mark? Are they going to respect others' opinions? After
over 22 years in the Bahai Faith, I would find it to be a first....
It doesn't matter whether we agree with
>someone. We can still address each person with basic human kindness. If we
>would begin to do so, the majority of TOS reports (by myself and by others)
>would end.
Sounds like a threat, none too veiled.... Unfortunately, I and others
believe you are using a decidedly double standard in choosing who to report
on to the TOSGeneral.... I don't believe there's any doubt that that is the
case.
>
>Also, we need to bear in mind that proselytizing (meaning, trying to
convert
>someone to one's own religion) or attacking or belittling the religion of
>that particular forum is a TOS violation, plain and simple. Translation:
>Members of another religions trying to convert Baha'is to their religion
are
>in violation of TOS regulations. And members of other religions attacking
or
>belittling the Baha'i Faith are in violation of TOS
>regulations.
What about Bahais harassing and attacking Bahais and non-Bahais on and off
of AOL? I believe you're using a double standard here once again.
>
>People, I didn't make those rules up. They come from one of two places:
>Either from CAT itself or from the policy makers of the spirituality forums
>(of which the Baha'i Forum is a part).
You and other Bahais are interpreting and using them to further your own
interpretations of what the Bahai Faith is or should be. AOL personnel are
extremely naive and uninformed in this regard but some are not....
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 6:47 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990215184756...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>Mahdi,
>
>The problems you refer to, as I see it, are primarily a result of your
>promotion of Islam in the Baha'i Forum. It has caused considerable
>frustration on the part of some of the Baha'i participants here.
>
>I am attempting, in this case, to deal with the causes, rather than the
>effects. It seems more sensible to me to proceed that way.
>
>
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
I'm a member of the Bahai Faith, and I don't feel any frustration with
Mahdi's opinions and beliefs. As a Muslim, he has every right to believe
what he does and share his views on the Bahai Faith. Certain kinds of Bahais
want to suppress his and other Muslims' views. As Forum Leader, you should
not be assisting them in doing so.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 7:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Mr Mahdi
>Message-id: <19990215191912...@ng35.aol.com>
>
>>Mahdi,
>>
>>The problems you refer to, as I see it, are primarily a result of your
>>promotion of Islam in the Baha'i Forum. It has caused considerable
>>frustration on the part of some of the Baha'i participants here.
>>
>>I am attempting, in this case, to deal with the causes, rather than the
>>effects. It seems more sensible to me to proceed that way.
>
>So in other words, its ok for them and not me. I call it a double
standard,
>you call it fairness. What makes you think the attack on Islam here by
>bahais like Susan and Wendy is not primarily a result of my considerable
>frustration? You have shown great unfairness and bias, you should not say
>its ok for them to show frustration but its not ok for me.
>Mahdi
Again, I believe Mahdi is quite right. There's a double standard being used
against him and others by Bahais.
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>It seems to me certain kinds of Bahai here on
the AOL forums are the ones going for the juggular....
>Subject: Re: Christine - TOS problems
>Date: 2/16/1999 1:53 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Hawkeye919
>Message-id: <19990216015313...@ng-cb1.aol.com>
>
>Christine:
>
> I find it interesting that you chide Bahá'ís by way of implying that we
are
>not being honest enough with you; yet, when we are honest about our
feelings,
>thereby showing we are just as human as the next person, you jump on us for
>that too. There is no pleasing you.
> We have been more than tolerant with you for far too long; but you insist
on
>making things difficult for everyone — yourself included. Try taking it
easy
>on others and on yourself by showing consideration and respect for the
>feelings and views of others, and you will be amazed how differently people
>will behave toward you. However, if you insist on going for the jugular
>every time, or playing little games in the rooms, you will only make things
>more difficult for everyone — most of all for yourself.
>
>Regards, Hawkeye.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>This is all merely an excuse to drive out
Mahdi, in my opinion. I've seen many, many Bahais bring up Xianity, Islam,
etc., in a similar manner when it suits their purposes.
>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/16/1999 6:51 AM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990216065123...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>Mahdi,
>
>Baha'is don't attack Islam. We accept it as a valid Revelation. Now, you,
as
>a Muslim may see it differently. However, this is a Baha'i Forum - not an
>Islamic one.
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>This message is quite revealing about what
many Bahais are actually up to with the TOS onslaught on AOL against people
who don't toe the party line.... "We live in hope" obviously refers to
getting people entirely kicked off AOL by constantly alleging TOS violations
against them. To do so is in itself a violation of the TOS system and can
lead to the person making such false allegations to lose his or her account.
Again,
I urge anyone who believes they are being treated unfairly or with a double
standard to write hos...@aol.com and TOSBo...@aol.com
>Subject: Re: 3 strikes and Mahdi's not out
>Date: 2/16/1999 2:29 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Chrrrstine
>Message-id: <19990216142917...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>>Joh:
>>
>> WAYYY more than three. We live in hope.
>>
>>Rob
>>
>>
>
>Ah. Truly, a beautiful thread. Please don't try to take MY AOL account
>because you disagree with me. If you spend ANY time hoping differing points
>of view have their accounts revoked, may I respectfully suggest that you
>better spend that time in prayer. IMO God would want it that way.
>Love,
>Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
Frederick Glaysher
>Dear friends,
>
>After a long illness which forced Dr. Mark Foster to neglect the AOL Baha'i
>message board allowing, he found himself in the difficult position of
having to
>enforce TOS rules in a situation where people had not been used to it. This
>explains the suddent wave of protests.
Last August the excuse for his doing nothing to improve
the censored areas of AOL was that he was busy with
the beginning of his classes for the fall. Then nothing
but silence for months. I highly doubt the veracity of the
claim that he was so sick. Regardless, I repeatedly emailed
directly to him and requested that he resign, a request he's
always ignored. When he did return, he immediately went
for the juggular vein, mine as well as others. He is not a fair
and honest Forum Leader, and should resign.... Speaking
as a Bahai, I believe he's clearly a puppet for the fanatics
and fundamentalists in the Bahai administration. AOL is for
all people, not merely the literal minded Bahais who have learned
how to manipulate and abuse the system of TOSs on AOL.
>
>I'm posting below the AOL TOS rules that were being violated. Baha'is did
not
>make those up, AOL did.
The reality is that many fundamentalist Bahais have and
are violating the TOS rules on AOL and Foster is not slapping
them with TOSs. See the others messages I've posted as
evidence of this double standard.
>
>Here are the guidelines from the Spirituality Forum:
>
> Posts may be deleted when messages violate AOL's Policy for Online
Conduct,
>the Terms of Service,Rules of the Road, or the policies established by the
>Spirituality forum which are outlined in this text.
> Concerning proselytizing:The Other Religions Boards are designed for those
>belonging to or interested in the religions represented here. The folders
are
>for support & not criticism of the listed religions. AOL has provided other
>areas where you may critize these or any other religions. Any
proselytizing
>or advocacy for the members of any of these religions to abandon their
faith or
>accept faiths other than their own will be treated as disruption on our
message
>boards and will be reported to TOS. Also, posts that are critical of the
>represented religion will be deleted & forward to TOS for board disruption.
Ms. Maneck herself referred to my opinions on AOL a number
of times as "garbage." Foster has done nothing about that whatsoever.
Also fundamentalist Bahais regularly intimidate and threaten other
Bahais like myself on AOL by suggesting we are "covenant breakers,"
not "firm in the covenant," creating "disunity," etc.... Many of these
Bahai-style threats and insults violated the AOL TOS rules just as much
or more but AOL people do understand what's being done by the
fundamentalists and not enough people report the fundamentalists at
the moment.
>
>Susan Stiles Maneck
>History, Stetson University
See the links below for further evidence or comments along these
lines:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Smaneck
Dear friends,
After a long illness which forced Dr. Mark Foster to neglect the AOL Baha'i
message board allowing, he found himself in the difficult position of having to
enforce TOS rules in a situation where people had not been used to it. This
explains the suddent wave of protests.
I'm posting below the AOL TOS rules that were being violated. Baha'is did not
make those up, AOL did.
Here are the guidelines from the Spirituality Forum:
Posts may be deleted when messages violate AOL's Policy for Online Conduct,
the Terms of Service,Rules of the Road, or the policies established by the
Spirituality forum which are outlined in this text.
Concerning proselytizing:The Other Religions Boards are designed for those
belonging to or interested in the religions represented here. The folders are
for support & not criticism of the listed religions. AOL has provided other
areas where you may critize these or any other religions. Any proselytizing
or advocacy for the members of any of these religions to abandon their faith or
accept faiths other than their own will be treated as disruption on our message
boards and will be reported to TOS. Also, posts that are critical of the
represented religion will be deleted & forward to TOS for board disruption.
Frederick Glaysher
>Fred writes:
>
>>I highly doubt the veracity of the
>>claim that he was so sick.
>
Even if he was actually sick, which I doubt, it's obviously
a bogus tactic to conceal what you and other fanatics
are attempting to suppress on AOL.
>
>>Regardless, I repeatedly emailed
>>directly to him and requested that he resign, a request he's
>>always ignored.
>
>The nerve of Mark! When Fred issues a demand like that Mark should comply
>immediately.
As Forum Leader, he had obligations he ignored repeatedly
and should have made arrangements to replace himself if
he actually cared about the AOL Forums functioning properly
which he certainly didn't... He, like other fundamentalists on
AOL, preferred the dysfunctional state of all the Forums to
truly open free speech....
>
>>Ms. Maneck herself referred to my opinions on AOL a number
>>of times as "garbage."
>
>And nobody else would *ever* charaterize the litter you spam these lists
with
>in that manner.
Here we have another demonstration of Ms. Maneck's
adherence to "scholarly" values and discourse.... I shall
add it to my collection....
>
>
>Susan Stiles Maneck
>History, Stetson University
Frederick Glaysher
against me and several other individuals by alleging FALSE
TOSs and should be removed immediately from his position
as Forum Leader.
I am presently working on a message to the hos...@aol.com
and TOSBo...@aol.com to this effect and encourage others
who have been targeted by him and other Bahai fundamentalists
on AOL to write also.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
RBCF Mark wrote in message <19990218144900...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>Fred,
>
>I am not paid anything for what I do. Only the owners are paid. The forum
>managers, chat hosts, librarians, etc. are volunteers. Incidentally, I am
all
>three - a forum manager, a chat host, and a librarian. And ... I am a
>volunteer. My only perk is that I don't pay for AOL (if you can call it
that).
>
>The regulations are not made by the Baha'is. They are official AOL
policies.
>All TOS (terms of service) decisions are made by the Community Action Team
on
>AOL, which has nothing to do with the Baha'i Faith Forum.
>
>Cordially, Mark Foster
Frederick Glaysher
Frederick Glaysher
other people who don't share the fundamentalist
mindset. I've spoken with an AOL person regarding the
whole situation. We can appeal the false TOSs by
writing the TOSB...@aol.com and hos...@aol.com.
I've just forwarded a dozen or more messages from various
people complaining now in the For Non-Bahais folder to the above
addresses and suggest you write them as soon as you can
so that they hear from someone else. You know the literalists
have and will make me out to be a lone kook otherwise.
Encourage others to do the same. AOL woke up in the past
and got ride of Vahid and Edmund, former "Forum Leaders."
We can depend on them to do the right thing with Mark Foster
too but have to be patient and make the extra effort to inform
them what he's really doing now on AOL.
Frederick Glaysher
I would like to state that the recent repeatedly alleged TOS violations
against me and other members of the Bahai Forums are completely
false. The Bahai Forum Leader, Mark Foster, has failed to perform
his duties in any way whatsoever for more than EIGHT months. My
request that he resign was emailed to him more than two months ago,
and I have repeatedly asked him to resign. My reason for doing so is
he and other fundamentalist Bahais on AOL are manipulating and
using the Bahai Forums to suppress what information is available to
AOL members. Let me mention that I myself have been a member of
the Bahai Faith now for more than 23 years and have witnessed many
similar episodes in which Bahais have suppressed the freedom of
information and opinion.
I also believe these TOSs are acts of revenge against me for recently
creating talk.religion.bahai on Usenet, which fundamentalist Bahais
have opposed for more than two years and may be corroborated by
looking at my website which documents their opposition, including
their fanaticism on AOL.
Let me mention that TWO former Bahai Forums Leaders have
had to be removed by AOL in the past. I'm afraid it is now painfully
evident that this one too should be replaced by someone who does
not play out his religious beliefs into vindictive actions against Bahais,
non-Bahais, Muslims, whoever....
I should mention that Bahais of more conservative mindset regularly
insult others by suggesting they're "covenant breakers" or "infirm in
the covenant" and so on. These phrases are insulting to myself and
others but Mark Foster has done absolutely nothing to bring a halt
to such behavior. One Bahai, Susan Maneck, has gone so far as
to repeatedly refer to my opinions as "garbage" and "slander" and
has not been corrected by him in anyway. I am very tired of this
double standard, as are other AOL members in the Bahai Forums.
Please read especially "The Bahai Technique" and AOL:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
What is taking place on the AOL Bahai Forums is exceedingly complex
and will require serious efforts on the part of AOL personnel if you are to
understand and make the right decisions.
Other than a fair and unbiased Forum Leader, I have been concerned
primarily with 3 ISSUES:
alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai should be added to Newsgroups
on the main Bahai Forum Menu
Libraries functioning and accepting all postings to them and
uncensored by Bahais (which appear now to have been fixed).
My web site The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
added to Web Sites and all others freely accepted as well:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
I am forwarding this message to the Hos...@aol.com and the
TOSBo...@aol.com in the hope that one or the other can assist in
finding a person to serve fairly and impartially as Bahai Forum Leader.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
Frederick Glaysher
reveal quite clearly what he and other fundamentalists
on AOL are attempting to suppress....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 11:06:43 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Sent to TOS for attacks and spamming
Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
Date: 02/18/1999 07:08 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218080819...@ng90.aol.com>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 11:04:44 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Sent to TOS for spamming.
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 10:59:36 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Another one - same reason
Subject: Re: Christine - TOS problems
Date: 02/18/1999 07:17 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218081720...@ng90.aol.com>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 10:50:13 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Sent to CAT for board disruption. You can't make these sorts of accusations.
Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
Date: 02/18/1999 07:42 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218084244...@ng90.aol.com>
>Subject: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
>Date: 2/15/1999 4:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: Mr Mahdi
>Message-id: <19990215165123...@ng103.aol.com>
>
>Too bad you and Mark were the only ones that saw the post before yours
truly
>yanked them off the third time. 3 of my post were yanked off, and I am
being
>seriuos this time, I found my posts as one of most "mild" posts I writen.
>The post you just read was yanked because it didnt fit a post that belonged
>to a "support" forum. Oh well, like your posts are supporting and praising
>mines. I see the typical double-standard
>going on here.
>Mahdi
AOL does provide for a system of TOS appeal. Write TOSBo...@aol.com
regarding the double standards that are now being used to drive people off
these Boards. The hos...@aol.com should hear your views.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 10:47:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Again, sent to TOS for board disruption.
Subject: Re: Please Read!!!
Date: 02/18/1999 07:49 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218084955...@ng90.aol.com>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 10:38:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Again, sent to TOS, for the same reason.
Subject: Other victims of false TOSs
Date: 02/18/1999 09:14 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218101450...@ng90.aol.com>
FYI
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Glaysher <fgla...@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai,talk.religion.misc
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:06 AM
Subject: fw na...@aol.com Re: AOL censorship via TOS allegations
>I ask Bahais and non-Bahais who are familiar with
>the methods fundamentalist Bahais use to suppress
>free speech and conscience to also write the hos...@aol.com
>and the TOSBo...@aol.com to help encourage them
>to rectify the situation. It seems to me that basically the same
>dynamics that have played themselves out with the opposition
>to talk.religion.bahai is now taking place, has been really for
>a long time, at least since last August, on AOL....
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Fgla...@aol.com <Fgla...@aol.com>
>To: Na...@aol.com <Na...@aol.com>
>Cc: fgla...@hotmail.com <fgla...@hotmail.com>
>Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:58 AM
>Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>
>
>>He's been doing the same thing to me and several
>>other people who don't share the fundamentalist
>>mindset. I've spoken with an AOL person regarding the
>>whole situation. We can appeal the false TOSs by
>>writing the TOSB...@aol.com and hos...@aol.com.
>>
>>I've just forwarded a dozen or more messages from various
>>people complaining now in For Non-Bahais to the above
>>addresses and suggest you write them as soon as you can
>>so that they hear from someone else. You know the literalists
>>have and will make me out to be a lone kook otherwise. I
>>
>>Encourage others to do the same. AOL woke up in the past
>>and got ride of Vahid and Edmund, former "Forum Leaders."
>>
>>We can depend on them to do the right thing with Mark Foster
>>too but have to be patient and make the extra effort to inform
>>them what he's really doing now on AOL.
>>
>>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Subj: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>>Date: 2/18/1999 9:26:24 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>From: na...@aol.com (Nadle)
>>To: fgla...@aol.com
>>
>>Fred,
>>
>>I'm getting really ticked off with Mark's censorship.
>>
>>I was wrong and you, it turns out, have been right.
>>
>>I wasnt to send a complaint to AOL about Mark. He's pulled several of my
>>posts and forwarded them to TOS. TOS, however, have blown him off.
>>
>>When I repost those deleted posts, he yanks them again, and forwards
>them -
>>yet again - to TOS.
>>
>>What do I do?
>>
>>Thank you for the information.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Larry Rhodes
>>
>>
>>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
>>Return-Path: <na...@aol.com>
>>Received: from rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com
[172.31.33.227])
>by
>>air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:23 -0500
>>Received: from ngeout01.news.aol.com (ngeout01.news.aol.com
>[152.163.176.244])
>> by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
>> with SMTP id JAA07001 for <fgla...@aol.com>;
>> Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:20 -0500 (EST)
>>Received: from ladder01.news.aol.com (ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com
>>[172.16.30.168]) by ngeout01.news.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
>>JAA29829 for <fgla...@aol.com>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:23 -0500
>>Date: 18 Feb 1999 09:26:22 EST
>>Newsgroups: aol.boards.internal0.top-o-world.aol-department-
>>level.associations-specia.bahai.for-non-bahais1f6ff4
>>To: fgla...@aol.com
>>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>>References: <19990218080242...@ng90.aol.com>
>>From: na...@aol.com (Nadle)
>>Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>>Message-ID: <19990218092622...@ng97.aol.com>
>>
>
>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: To TOS
Date: 2/18/1999 10:35:33 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Fglaysher
Subject: AOL Bahai censorship via false TOS allegations
Date: 02/18/1999 09:21 Central Standard Time
From: Fglaysher
Message-id: <19990218102111...@ng90.aol.com>
I sent this to TOS for action. Of course, it is, as always, their decision,
not mine.
-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Glaysher <fgla...@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai,talk.religion.bahai,talk.religion.misc
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 10:06 AM
Subject: fw na...@aol.com Re: AOL censorship via TOS allegations
>I ask Bahais and non-Bahais who are familiar with
>the methods fundamentalist Bahais use to suppress
>free speech and conscience to also write the hos...@aol.com
>and the TOSBo...@aol.com to help encourage them
>to rectify the situation. It seems to me that basically the same
>dynamics that have played themselves out with the opposition
>to talk.religion.bahai is now taking place, has been really for
>a long time, at least since last August, on AOL....
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Fgla...@aol.com <Fgla...@aol.com>
>To: Na...@aol.com <Na...@aol.com>
>Cc: fgla...@hotmail.com <fgla...@hotmail.com>
>Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:58 AM
>Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>
>
>>He's been doing the same thing to me and several
>>other people who don't share the fundamentalist
>>mindset. I've spoken with an AOL person regarding the
>>whole situation. We can appeal the false TOSs by
>>writing the TOSB...@aol.com and hos...@aol.com.
>>
>>I've just forwarded a dozen or more messages from various
>>people complaining now in For Non-Bahais to the above
>>addresses and suggest you write them as soon as you can
>>so that they hear from someone else. You know the literalists
>>have and will make me out to be a lone kook otherwise. I
>>
>>Encourage others to do the same. AOL woke up in the past
>>and got ride of Vahid and Edmund, former "Forum Leaders."
>>
>>We can depend on them to do the right thing with Mark Foster
>>too but have to be patient and make the extra effort to inform
>>them what he's really doing now on AOL.
>>
>>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Subj: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>>Date: 2/18/1999 9:26:24 AM Eastern Standard Time
>>From: na...@aol.com (Nadle)
>>To: fgla...@aol.com
>>
>>Fred,
>>
>>I'm getting really ticked off with Mark's censorship.
>>
>>I was wrong and you, it turns out, have been right.
>>
>>I wasnt to send a complaint to AOL about Mark. He's pulled several of my
>>posts and forwarded them to TOS. TOS, however, have blown him off.
>>
>>When I repost those deleted posts, he yanks them again, and forwards
>them -
>>yet again - to TOS.
>>
>>What do I do?
>>
>>Thank you for the information.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Larry Rhodes
>>
>>
>>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
>>Return-Path: <na...@aol.com>
>>Received: from rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com
[172.31.33.227])
>by
>>air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:23 -0500
>>Received: from ngeout01.news.aol.com (ngeout01.news.aol.com
>[152.163.176.244])
>> by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
>> with SMTP id JAA07001 for <fgla...@aol.com>;
>> Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:20 -0500 (EST)
>>Received: from ladder01.news.aol.com (ladder01.news-fddi.aol.com
>>[172.16.30.168]) by ngeout01.news.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id
>>JAA29829 for <fgla...@aol.com>; Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:26:23 -0500
>>Date: 18 Feb 1999 09:26:22 EST
>>Newsgroups: aol.boards.internal0.top-o-world.aol-department-
>>level.associations-specia.bahai.for-non-bahais1f6ff4
>>To: fgla...@aol.com
>>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>>References: <19990218080242...@ng90.aol.com>
>>From: na...@aol.com (Nadle)
>>Subject: Re: Who is Mark Foster?
>>Message-ID: <19990218092622...@ng97.aol.com>
Frederick Glaysher
Date: 2/18/1999 5:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
To: Fglaysher
These are the posts that were yanked off by Mark (you can post these on you
site if you wish):
Subj: sent to TOS
Date: 2/15/99 1:12:27 PM Central Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Mr Mahdi
I sent this one to TOS for the same reason as the last one. The Baha'i Faith
Forum is a support forum.
Mark A. Foster, Baha'i Faith Forum Manager
Subject: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
Date: 2/15/99 12:36 Central Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
Message-id: <19990215133644...@ng43.aol.com>
I would like everybody to know that two of my posts were yanked off by the
fair and open-minded Mark. I was expressing myself like I do always in
these excellent posts. I wrote about the oppressive and suppresive way
"some" bahais treat people with critical views of the bahai faith. I
mentioned my treatment by two very well known people here, let just say Mrs.
W and Mrs/PhD S. Mark obviously felt that I was
prostelyzing Islam here so he yanked my post off and sent me an e-mail
telling he reported me twice to TOS. I felt this was and is unfair, and it
is proof of the silence of dissenters and sincere and open minded thinkers
by certain extremist elements. I would want Mark to post my posts that were
yanked off so people can see for themselves.I had it from the law, the
system, and now the bahais here at AOL. I just cant get out of trouble for
some
reason, even when I swear I didnt do anything wrong.
Mahdi
Frederick Glaysher
Subj: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
Date: 2/18/1999 5:11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
To: Fglaysher
Subj: sent to TOS
Date: 2/17/99 3:54:26 AM Central Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Mr Mahdi
Mahdi,
This is the Baha'i Forum. Referring to Baha'i activities, of any sort, as
"BS" is, IMO, inappropriate. I have forwarded this message to TOS with a
recommendation that you not be allowed to post messages on this forum.
Subject: The Blind Faith For Dummies Book
Date: 02/16/1999 23:09 Central Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
Message-id: <19990217000921...@ng111.aol.com>
>On this issue of science, the bahai faith compromises its beliefs in order
to
>gain converts from the scientific world. The catchy slogan of unity of
>religion and science has a price to pay when it comes to Creation Vs.
>materialistic evolution. Bahais believe that Adam and Eve story in the
bible
>and Quran is an allegory. God teaches us that Adam and Eve had no parents,
>but the bahai believes in evolution. This is a clear contradiction. How I
>respond to atheists is that I prove that materialistic evolution is a
>perception of how creation came to be, and when I do that I put the
>materialist in a corner and on the run, not the other way around. God can
be
>proven intellectually, and I hope the cynics out there who believe God can
>only be proven in faith realize this.
>Mahdi
Yes, I am quoting myself. I like to remind people here on the curse of
blind faith and the curse of determining God based on whether or not it
agrees with your desires. I hope people realize how stupid and
unintellectual they sound if they believe in something that they themselves
can't prove except thru beating around the bush apologetic BS.
Mahdi
Frederick Glaysher
Subj: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
Date: 2/18/1999 5:13:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
To: Fglaysher
Subj: sent to TOS
Date: 2/17/99 4:03:21 AM Central Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Mr Mahdi
Mahdi,
This is not the Islamic Forum. It is the Baha'i Forum. Your statement that
the Baha'i Faith compromises its beliefs is, IMO, improper.
Mark A. Foster, Baha'i Forum Manager
Subject: Re: Susan: Homosexsuality is wrong
Date: 02/16/1999 21:29 Central Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
Message-id: <19990216222922...@ng14.aol.com>
A PhD proves that you can get it without being an intellectual. PL asked
why is red wine not forbidden while its has proven I guess that it is
beneficial to one's health. Susan didnt respond in my opinion good enough.
I would of responded by saying that God never told us why he forbade wine
except that it cause you to be mad and dizzy. God never said alcohol was
not good or bad for your health, God forbade it without
giving us a reason other than the two above. Also with swine, God never
said he forbade swine because it can cause heart attacks, He forbade and we
shouldnt speculate why God does this or that, because God's Minds is beyond
human comprehension.
Frederick Glaysher
Subj: Re: Getting TOSsed in the slammer
Date: 2/18/1999 5:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
To: Fglaysher
Subj: sent to TOS
Date: 2/17/99 4:35:29 AM Central Standard Time
From: RBCF Mark
To: Mr Mahdi
Sent to TOS for calling people idiots.
Mark A. Foster, Baha'i Forum Manager
Subject: Wendy saw my intellectual skills!
Date: 02/16/1999 20:46 Central Standard Time
From: Mr Mahdi
Message-id: <19990216214630...@ng38.aol.com>
Tonight in the bahai chat Wendy was confronted by an atheist. She was asked
about God. The atheist asked for proof that a God exist and later on after
Wendy gave the "faith" response, the atheist had a chance to go toe and toe
with yours truly. I ask the atheist one simple question, with Wendy paying
close attention. The atheist was speechless, he got stumped, he was
reaching for anything in the air, all form a
simple question. This is proof that God can be proven intellectually, and
the "idiots" who keep saying its "faith" that proves God's existence make it
bad on all those who believe in God. Remember, God isnt a version or some
vague concept of one's imagination, and the notion "of beleiving in a God
that does this doesnt do that" is a waste of space. I see people who preach
this type of message as the biggest reason why secularism is taking over in
mainly Judeo-Christian societies. Intellectuals see truth as facts not just
"beliefs" and see faith as either blind or intellectual. Unfortunately,
when people who believe in God according to their whims and desires is
confronted by a sincere thinker, the thinker is turned off by the nonsense
of blind faith and apologetic responses. I see this as very sad, because
like I said many times in the past, I cant stand "people of religion"
because they
leave intellectuality at the door and start ranting and raving about God is
faith or my version of God must be this or that.
Mahdi
Milissa Boyer Kafes
> >>Ms. Maneck herself referred to my opinions on AOL a number
> >>of times as "garbage."
> >
> >And nobody else would *ever* charaterize the litter you spam these lists
> with
> >in that manner.
>
> Here we have another demonstration of Ms. Maneck's
> adherence to "scholarly" values and discourse.... I shall
> add it to my collection....
I am not a fundamentalist and I supported the creation of this list. There are
legitimate criticisms of the Faith to be made and solutions to be found! But
Frederick you have to be honest and admit that you are as irritating as hell,
and this is from someone who has no interest in getting you in trouble and
agrees with almost all of the criticisms you have made!
Please quit posting the same posts over and over again! Can't you see how
irritating that is and how it has nothing to do with being a fundamentalist?
I've seen your May email at least a hundred times now. And quite slamming
Mark....I know for a fact he was sick. AOL has appropriate channels for you
to air your grievances there, so why bother us with it? We already know what
you think of Susan and Mark, so you don't need to keep telling us.
Please take this as the constructive criticism it is intended to be. Thanks
Peace,
Milissa Boyer Kafes
mbk...@bestweb.net
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
"Frederick Glaysher" <fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I believe these TOSsed messages by Mark Foster
> reveal quite clearly what he and other fundamentalists
> on AOL are attempting to suppress....
>
> Subject: Re: Please Read!!!
Sheesh, I am a blind! When I first read that we can still address each
person with human kindness and the admin action would subside, I thought to
myself, 'yep this makes sense'. Only _after_ Fred pointed out that it was a
bold-faced threat I realized that someone was trying to tell us all that they
are going to spam the living snot out of all of our modems if we continue to
have our own ideas!
How did find myself on alt.alt.AOL, anyway? I really need to get some
glasses! I thought this was a/t.r.b.
Help a blind old man who lost his cane!
- Pat
rli...@nils.com
It is time for a Pop Quiz, students!
Subject: "Speaking as a Baha'i"
1. What are the traits and characteristics which the followers of Baha'u'llah
ought to possess?
A. love
B. respect
C. courtesy
D. humility
E. patience
F. All of the above
G. All of the above, plus lots more
2. What characteristics in others ought Baha'is to remember (praise)?
A. love
B. respect
C. courtesy
D. humility
E. patience
F. All of the above
G. All of the above, plus lots more
3. What characteristics in others ought Baha'is to forget?
A. character flaws
B. imperfections
C. any tendencies which cause disunity
D. any human frailty
E. egotism, spitefulness, impatience, anger, etc.
F. momentary lapses into egotism, spitefulness, impatience, anger, etc.
G. All of the above, plus lots more
4. Under what circumstances may a Baha'i backbite?*
A. Never
B. Not under any circumstances
C. the 20th of every Baha'i month
D. On days of the Baha'i week named "Ugly", "Anger" and "Darkness"
E. All of the above
F. none of the above, this is a trick question
This ought to do for a start, I think.
You will not be graded on a curve, but all tests with scores of less than four
(4) will receive an "F". Answers in by Friday, Feb. 19, 1999.
Robert A. Little
In article <7ah9dc$i...@news1.newsguy.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Sue
Please stop spamming the newsgroups with these commercials to increase your
website "counts" in the interests of your publishing/marketing ambitions.
You are clogging up my newsreader. You are off-topic.
Sue
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7ai2vc$2e...@news3.newsguy.com>...
Sue
Please stop spamming the newsgroups with these commercials to increase your
website "counts" in the interests of your publishing/marketing ambitions.
You are clogging up my newsreader. You are off-topic.
Sue
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7ahtaa$q...@news1.newsguy.com>...
>Foster has repeatedly violated the TOS system on AOL
>against me and several other individuals by alleging FALSE
>TOSs and should be removed immediately from his position
>as Forum Leader.
>
>I am presently working on a message to the hos...@aol.com
>and TOSBo...@aol.com to this effect and encourage others
>who have been targeted by him and other Bahai fundamentalists
>on AOL to write also.
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
>alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
>
>
>
>
Sue
Please stop spamming the newsgroups with these commercials to increase your
website "counts" in the interests of your publishing/marketing ambitions.
You are clogging up my newsreader. You are off-topic.
Sue
Frederick Glaysher wrote in message <7ai0f1$s...@news1.newsguy.com>...
>Dear HostMGR & TOSBoards1:
>
>
>
>Please read especially "The Bahai Technique" and AOL:
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
>
>What is taking place on the AOL Bahai Forums is exceedingly complex
>and will require serious efforts on the part of AOL personnel if you are to
>understand and make the right decisions.
>
>Other than a fair and unbiased Forum Leader, I have been concerned
>primarily with 3 ISSUES:
>
>alt.religion.bahai and talk.religion.bahai should be added to Newsgroups
>on the main Bahai Forum Menu
>
>Libraries functioning and accepting all postings to them and
>uncensored by Bahais (which appear now to have been fixed).
>
>My web site The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
>added to Web Sites and all others freely accepted as well:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
>
>I am forwarding this message to the Hos...@aol.com and the
>TOSBo...@aol.com in the hope that one or the other can assist in
>finding a person to serve fairly and impartially as Bahai Forum Leader.
>
>
>Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
>http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
Pat Kohli
Anybody watching that King miniseries on TV? They guy they locked up
said that repetition is an important part of hell. Ewwww!
In article <7ai2vc$2e...@news3.newsguy.com>,
"Frederick Glaysher" <fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I believe these TOSsed messages by Mark Foster
> reveal quite clearly what he and other fundamentalists
> on AOL are attempting to suppress....
>
Sheesh, I am a blind! When I first read that we can still address each
person with human kindness and the admin action would subside, I thought
to myself, 'yep this makes sense'. Only _after_ Fred pointed out that
it was a bold-faced threat I realized that someone was trying to tell us
all that they are going to spam the living snot out of all of our modems
if we continue to have our own ideas!
How did find myself on alt.alt.AOL, anyway? I really need to get some
glasses! I thought this was a/t.r.b.
Help a blind old man who lost his cane! his cane! his cane! going
insane? insane?
- Pat
Frederick Glaysher
>Fred quotes Mahdi as saying:
>
>> I
>>mentioned my treatment by two very well known people here, let just say
Mrs.
>>W and Mrs/PhD S.
>
>What Mahdi is referring to here is the fact that after he publicly posted
an
>Instant Message between himself and "W" I refused to communicate with him
via
>IMs any longer. When I refused and blocked his messages he began to invent
new
>screen names to get past my blocks and continue to harrass me. . Naturally
I
>reported these incidents to AOL and that is why Mahdi believes he is being
>persecuted.
I don't know if the incident is true or not, but I do know that
Bahais have harassed me in exactly the same way with
Instant Messages, a kind of chat connection for AOL
members. I finally had to block ALL of them....
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
Frederick Glaysher
>Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
>> Foster has repeatedly violated the TOS system on AOL
>> against me and several other individuals by alleging FALSE
>> TOSs and should be removed immediately from his position
>> as Forum Leader.
>
>> I am presently working on a message to the hos...@aol.com
>> and TOSBo...@aol.com to this effect and encourage others
>> who have been targeted by him and other Bahai fundamentalists
>> on AOL to write also.
>
>for this newsgroup. I respectfully ask everyone posting to either relate
>their comments to the Baha'i Faith or to cease.
As an extension of the same censorship and tyranny
that opposed the creation of talk.religion.bahai for
the past TWO YEARS, this topic is hardly irrelevant....
Frederick Glaysher
Milissa Boyer Kafes wrote in message <7aibcp$brj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
>Please take this as the constructive criticism it is intended to be. Thanks
You're free to think and post what you want Milissa, and so am I....
Since the creation of talk.religion.bahai, a MAJOR
campaign has begun by the fundamentalists on AOL to kick
me and others off. It is related to the same tyranny and oppression
that have manifested themselves on soc.religion.bahai and
elsewhere during the last decade or so.... In my opinion, the
whole topic BELONGS on talk.religion.bahai, the only widely
accessible and free forum on the Bahai Faith.
be...@my-dejanews.com
Frederick -The Wniner- Glaysher (v1.0) wrote:
|> Please take this as the constructive criticism it is intended to be. Thanks
> You're free to think and post what you want Milissa, and so am I....
>
> Since the creation of talk.religion.bahai, a MAJOR
> campaign has begun by the fundamentalists on AOL to kick
> me and others off. It is related to the same tyranny and oppression
> ^^^^^^^^^^
> that have manifested themselves on soc.religion.bahai and
> elsewhere during the last decade or so.... In my opinion, the
> whole topic BELONGS on talk.religion.bahai, the only widely
> accessible and free forum on the Bahai Faith.
Hello everyone:
As you all can see, Fred The Whiner again sees himself as "many" people.
None of you boys and girls have ever heard from this mysterious
"others" fellows who are being chased by fundamentalist Baha'is.
I talked to Fred's engineer and, first he tried to pass this obvious
bug as a "feature" (typical engineer). Then he agreed to fix it when
Fred is due an upgrade.
Now, just to prove that I am a better engineer than him and my Fred
is better than his Fred, this is what my Fred would respond:
|> Please take this as the constructive criticism it is intended to be. Thanks
> You are free to think and post what you want Milissa, and so am I ..
( (c) Fred Version 1.0) [ Mine came up with the same response ]
> Since the creation of talk.religion.bahai, a MAJOR, I mean MAAAAAAJOR,
> campaign has begun by the fundamentalists on AOL to kick
> me and thousands (if not millions) of supporters out of AOL.
> In fact, I believe AOL chairman and president is indeed an Iranian
> Baha'i. I have asked him numerous times to fore Mark Foster out and
> he not only has _NOT_ done so, but have not responded to me at all.
> This indeed is a MAAAAAJOR conspiracy by fanatic Baha'is to take
> over AOL and eventually force TRB to shut down and start the WW III.
>
>
> Frederick -The Whiner- Version 2.0 Glaysehr..
> The World Against Me and Freedom of Conscience:
> http://god_I_am_so_good.com/read_all_about_it.html
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Baha'is and Kennedy Assassination and Me !
- Cyrus (the top engineer)
Roger Reini
<fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Ron House wrote in message <36CCF76F...@usq.edu.au>...
>>
>>Discussions about AOL or the actions of individuals there are OFF TOPIC
>>for this newsgroup. I respectfully ask everyone posting to either relate
>>their comments to the Baha'i Faith or to cease.
>
>As an extension of the same censorship and tyranny
>that opposed the creation of talk.religion.bahai for
>the past TWO YEARS, this topic is hardly irrelevant....
I have to agree with Ron on this one. There is an AOL policy
affecting all religious forums (fora?), not one specifically directed
to or against Baha'is (depending on your viewpoint). I don't think
discussion of AOL policy is really on-topic for a Baha'i newsgroup.
Roger Borseth
Peace and Unity
Roger
Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37390389....@news.newsguy.com>...
>On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:10:41 GMT, rre...@wwnet.net (Roger Reini) wrote:
>
>> I have to agree with Ron on this one. There is an AOL policy
>> affecting all religious forums (fora?), not one specifically directed
>> to or against Baha'is (depending on your viewpoint). I don't think
>> discussion of AOL policy is really on-topic for a Baha'i newsgroup.
>
>Make that three votes for AOL's Terms of Service being off-topic outside
>of AOL.
>--
>Kathy Pascoe ~ ka...@scconsult.com (at home)
>Confused about newsgroups? Visit <news:news.newusers.questions>
Kathy Pascoe
Frederick Glaysher
>of AOL.
I believe the abuse of free speech on AOL is a legitimate topic
of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and shall continue to post
here anything I wish regarding it.
Some might want to notice that the same desire to prevent
diverse opinions from being heard is the reason Bahais are
attempting to drive myself and other people off of AOL
through their false allegations of TOS violations. I have
appealed this to the proper people at AOL and believe all
people on Usenet and the Internet have the right to hear
about the consistent opposition of Bahais to free speech
and conscience....
loriann
with AOL. There is no connection.
You are just trying to keep the pot stirred up. LET IT GO. AOL has nothing
to do with the Baha'i Faith or these two news groups.
For once I would like to see if you could come up and present a new topic
for discussion that actually has something to do with the Baha'i Faith.
Something these two news groups were created for. Is that even possible for
you?
Fred wrote:
>I believe the abuse of free speech on AOL is a legitimate topic
>of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and shall continue to post
>here anything I wish regarding it.
>
>Frederick Glaysher
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
"Frederick Glaysher" <fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kathy Pascoe wrote in message <37390389....@news.newsguy.com>...
> I believe the abuse of free speech on AOL is a legitimate topic
> of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and shall continue to post
> here anything I wish regarding it.
Would you say that any disagreement with you is an appropriate topic of
discussion at any time or place?
> Some might want to notice that the same desire to prevent
> diverse opinions from being heard is the reason Bahais are
> attempting to drive myself and other people off of AOL
> through their false allegations of TOS violations. I have
> appealed this to the proper people at AOL and believe all
> people on Usenet and the Internet have the right to hear
> about the consistent opposition of Bahais to free speech
> and conscience....
Your opinions can be read at your website at the URL below. The question you
ignore is, "is trb/arb an appropriate place to discuss your treatment at
AOL". Given you seem to be having a disagreement w/ low level management, the
productive channel of communication would be w/ AOL. If that fails, you are
free to organize a boycott and/or sue them. None of these courses of actions
involves the newsgroups. Your view that this pertains to the Baha'i faith
may stem from your assumption that suppression and censorship are aspects of
the faith. I still recall the rmgroup thread that you started. I think you
may be largely alone w/ your suspicion that spamming out other points of view
and removing a newsgroup you seldom use are expressions of our faith.
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
If you were attempting to teach English at Wayne State and a student raised
her hand and you called on her and she said, "I need help with Calculus",
would you let her take over your class and turn it into a Calculus tutorial.
If so, would you let her do it every day? If the other students complained
that they came to English class for English, not math, would you ignore them?
Consider our point of view. We see you as the student who came to one class
and is turning it into something else. We are not denying you your right to
express yourself, rather we are interested in promotion of expression and we
find that this is done more effectively when organized. You are undermining
the organization and your efforts are not appreciated and are seen as a
challenge to our rights to self-expression.
As you have seen at your local newsserver, articles last for but so long. As
more come in, more go out. If you insist on reposting your FAQ, Technique,
UHJ letter and any other recurring features I forgot, and doing so weekly or
at even closer intervals, other articles that other people wrote, most of
them one time pieces that we don't know by heart, get deleted, because of
you. Please consider this as you go on your free speech campaign, I and
probably others, see your tactics and conduct as the largest impediment to
free speech on the Baha'i Faith on the internet. Perhaps you were not aware
that your tactics are implicitly accelerating the deletion of other people's
messages, but now, I know you were told.
Blessings!
- Pat
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
nether star
>>of AOL.
>
>of discussion for talk.religion.bahai and shall continue to post
>here anything I wish regarding it.
But I am not on talk.religion.bahai. This is talk.religion.misc.
Please feel free to voice any and all greivances you wish...,
AT talk.religion.bahai.
You seem to fail to realize that not all of us use AOL, or would use AOL
if it were the last ISP on the planet. :-) If you still desire to xpost to
others who
have no care for your greivances, please restrict your xposting to AOL
groups.
At least these people "might" care what AOL is doing.
The vast majority of those listening to your useless complaints
have no care what goes on at AOL, nor authority to do anything about it.
I would suggest doing something constructive about it.
If you are failing to make progress with AOL leadership than I
would hazard a guess that it is with good reason.
nether star
Frederick Glaysher
archive to AOL. This is the response of the Bahai Forum Leader.
Sent to TOSBo...@aol.com
The Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster is exploiting the
TOS rules as a form of censorship and in particular in
using them to have my account permanently suspended.
On Saturday I uploaded a number of files to the Bahai
Libraries which he has now stated he has found ways
of suppressing and alleging TOSs against. Please
read his messages below as further evidence of his
pattern to citing people with TOSs in order to control
the information available to people on AOL.
Incidentally, the messages he falsely accuses me of
"spamming" were in separate folders, Bahai Forums/
message boards/For Non-Bahais and Bahai Forums/
Message Boards/Announcements. The messages are
different in content and definitely not spam. By making
such bogus charges Mark Foster has found that usually
AOL TOSs can be used to drive people out of the Forums
for ideological reasons.
I ask you to please, as the very least, cite him with a TOS
for this harassment. I believe he should actually be removed
as Forum Leader because he will never be a fair and impartial
person in his conduct towards people who do not share his
fundamentalist Bahai views. Let me add I myself am a Bahai.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
Subj: files
Date: 2/20/1999 11:51:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="mailto:RBCF Mark">RBCF Mark</A>
To: <A HREF="mailto:Fglaysher">Fglaysher</A>
Fred,
Since there are so many of them, I am going wait until our new librarian
comes
on board (which should be shortly). She will be able to look at your
uploads,
check them for TOS, etc.
I will send her a note to that effect.
Mark A. Foster
THE MESSAGE BELOW WAS POSTED IN A FOLDER
TITLED "Announcements":
Subj: to TOS
Date: 2/20/1999 2:34:41 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="mailto:RBCF Mark">RBCF Mark</A>
To: <A HREF="mailto:Fglaysher">Fglaysher</A>
Fred,
I have TOSed the below message (and the other one, which I am sending to you
separately) for spamming.
After checking into it, I have determined that your files which include
transcripts of conversations on newsgroups, listservs, etc. are not
permitted
according to AOL TOS regulations. I have also deleted your other library
files
which include the same.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Subject: 15+ megabytes of files uploaded to Libraries
Date: 02/20/1999 12:35 Central Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Fglaysher">Fglaysher</A>
Message-id: <19990220133543...@ng139.aol.com>
I've uploaded more than 15 megabytes of files to the AOL
Libraries today. They range from the earliest discussions
on soc.religion.bahai about talk.religion.bahai during late
1996 to as recently as October 1998.
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
MY MESSAGE WAS POSTED IN A FOLDER TITLED
FOR NON-BAHAIS:
Subj: the other one sent to TOS for spamming
Date: 2/20/1999 2:37:05 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: <A HREF="mailto:RBCF Mark">RBCF Mark</A>
To: <A HREF="mailto:Fglaysher">Fglaysher</A>
Here is the other one,
Mark A. Foster,
Baha'i Faith Forum Manager
Subject: For Non-Bahais
Date: 02/20/1999 12:42 Central Standard Time
From: <A HREF="aol://3548:Fglaysher">Fglaysher</A>
Message-id: <19990220134259...@ng139.aol.com>
Non-Bahais may like to know that I've uploaded
more than 15 megabytes of files today to the AOL
Libraries documenting the discussion for talk.religion.bahai
from late 1996 through late 1998.
They are also available on my website under the
talk.religion.bahai Archive.
I would like to invite the comments of the non-Bahais
present on these files and related issues.
ko...@mail.ameritel.net
reason w/ Fred on not abusing trb/arb as a journal to document his AOL
tribulations and actions.
In article <7ap1m5$28...@news3.newsguy.com>,
"Frederick Glaysher" <fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday I had uploaded 15+ megabytes of my talk.religion.bahai
> archive to AOL. This is the response of the Bahai Forum Leader.
> Sent to TOSBo...@aol.com
Yes, several times in this message I get to read that you uploaded 15+ MB of
data. That is the equivalent of 7500 pages of text! Do you know how many
pages are in the Encyclopedia Brittanica?
I doubt that Mark Foster is now writing about himself in the third person;
these are _your_ remarks!
> The Bahai Forum Leader Mark Foster is exploiting the
> TOS rules as a form of censorship and in particular in
> using them to have my account permanently suspended.
> On Saturday I uploaded a number of files to the Bahai
> Libraries which he has now stated he has found ways
> of suppressing and alleging TOSs against. Please
> read his messages below as further evidence of his
> pattern to citing people with TOSs in order to control
> the information available to people on AOL.
>
> Incidentally, the messages he falsely accuses me of
> "spamming" were in separate folders, Bahai Forums/
> message boards/For Non-Bahais and Bahai Forums/
> Message Boards/Announcements. The messages are
> different in content and definitely not spam. By making
> such bogus charges Mark Foster has found that usually
> AOL TOSs can be used to drive people out of the Forums
> for ideological reasons.
(snip)
I am impressed that you could upload an equivalent of 7500 pages and you are
confident there was no duplication. I am glad you do not upload your AOL
archive to trb/arb.
Your opinions can be read at your website at the URL below. The question you
ignore is, "is trb/arb an appropriate place to discuss your treatment at
AOL". Given you seem to be having a disagreement w/ low level management, the
productive channel of communication would be w/ AOL. If that fails, you are
free to organize a boycott and/or sue them. None of these courses of actions
involves the newsgroups. Your view that this pertains to the Baha'i faith
may stem from your assumption that suppression and censorship are aspects of
the faith. I still recall the rmgroup thread that you started. I think you
may be largely alone w/ your suspicion that spamming out other points of view
and removing a newsgroup you seldom use are expressions of our faith.
> Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
> http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
> alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards
If you were attempting to teach English at Wayne State and a student raised
her hand and you called on her and she said, "I need help with Calculus",
would you let her take over your class and turn it into a Calculus tutorial.
If so, would you let her do it every day? If the other students complained
that they came to English class for English, not math, would you ignore them?
Consider our point of view. We see you as the student who came to one class
and is turning it into something else. We are not denying you your right to
express yourself, rather we are interested in promotion of expression and we
find that this is done more effectively when organized. You are undermining
the organization and your efforts are not appreciated and are seen as a
challenge to our rights to self-expression.
As you have seen at your local news server, articles last for but so long. As
more come in, more go out. If you insist on reposting your FAQ, Technique,
UHJ letter and any other recurring features I forgot, and doing so weekly or
at even closer intervals, other articles that other people wrote, most of
them one time pieces that we don't know by heart, get deleted, because of
you. Please consider this as you go on your free speech campaign, I and
probably others, see your tactics and conduct as the largest impediment to
free speech on the Baha'i Faith on the internet. Perhaps you were not aware
that your tactics are implicitly accelerating the deletion of other people's
messages, but now, I know you were told and now I've told you again.
Blessings!
Frederick Glaysher
admits TOSing so many people he was flagging a bit.... He
seems to have recovered of late....
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>>Subject: Please Read!!!
>Date: 2/15/1999 5:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
>From: RBCF Mark
>Message-id: <19990215172653...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
>Folks,
>
>I am honestly getting tired of sending so many posts along to CAT
(Community
>Action Team -- the folks who handle TOS reports). However, I am required to
>do so, as a part of my volunteer position in this forum. But it is getting
>old rather quickly.
>
>May I make a personal plea that we please treat each other with the human
>dignity that each of us deserve?
What about Bahais, Mark? Are they going to respect others' opinions? After
over 22 years in the Bahai Faith, I would find it to be a first....
It doesn't matter whether we agree with
>someone. We can still address each person with basic human kindness. If we
>would begin to do so, the majority of TOS reports (by myself and by others)
>would end.
Sounds like a threat, none too veiled.... Unfortunately, I and others
believe you are using a decidedly double standard in choosing who to report
on to the TOSGeneral.... I don't believe there's any doubt that that is the
case.
>
>Also, we need to bear in mind that proselytizing (meaning, trying to
convert
>someone to one's own religion) or attacking or belittling the religion of
>that particular forum is a TOS violation, plain and simple. Translation:
>Members of another religions trying to convert Baha'is to their religion
are
>in violation of TOS regulations. And members of other religions attacking
or
>belittling the Baha'i Faith are in violation of TOS
>regulations.
What about Bahais harassing and attacking Bahais and non-Bahais on and off
of AOL? I believe you're using a double standard here once again.
>
>People, I didn't make those rules up. They come from one of two places:
>Either from CAT itself or from the policy makers of the spirituality forums
>(of which the Baha'i Forum is a part).
You and other Bahais are interpreting and using them to further your own
interpretations of what the Bahai Faith is or should be. AOL personnel are
extremely naive and uninformed in this regard but some are not....
>
>Sincerely, Mark A. Foster
>Bahá'í Faith Forum Manager
>http://www.markfoster.net
>http://markfoster.org
>http://bahai.nu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
</HTML>
<HTML><FONT SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm On talk.religion.bahai,<BR>
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai, Message Boards<BR>
</HTML>
Brian F. Walker
Lets keep this on topic: (snipping heavily)
you quote Mark Foster:
>May I make a personal plea that we please treat each other with the human
dignity that >each of us deserve?
> What about Bahais, Mark? Are they going to respect others' opinions? After
> over 22 years in the Bahai Faith, I would find it to be a first....
It is not a first, Fred, it is the usual way of things. In my 23 years as a
Baha'i I have always found that differing opinions are respected. Please note -
to respect does NOT mean to agree with. I will repeat this - when someone
disagrees with you it does not mean that your POV is not respected. This brings
me to the question of _why_ YOU would find this behaviour among Baha'is to be a
"first"? What is it about you that allows you to experience a Baha'i community
for 22 years, and not see what is so evident to others?
Perhaps this attitude to differing POV is the real root problem you are
struggling with? Is this in reality an ego thing that is such a problem for you?
If so, then I can better understand where you are coming from.
So, in essence I am asking you to tell me how it is that such different
perceptions can exist of Baha'i behaviour (the Baha'i experience v. Fred's
experience) and if the real problem is not to be found in ego?
The answer to the question will be, I hope, to recognize that a problem has many
facets. In resolving the issues one can look inside oneself and call oneself to
account each day, before resolving to put the principles of the Baha'i faith
into better practice. Certainly the answer does not lie in continuing the
current destructive course of action so far chosen.
Best regards,
Brian
--
Brian F. Walker
br...@bfwalker.com
http://www.bfwalker.com
Pat Kohli
Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I posted this message earlier in which Mark Foster
> admits TOSing so many people he was flagging a bit.... He
> seems to have recovered of late....
Not in the last five minutes that I'm aware of. So much for the wishful
thinking that you could post 15 MB w/o duplicates.
But you are joking, right?
Here is mine.
---------------------------------------
Greetings!
A repost, repost, repost, . . .
(snips)
IIn article <7ai2vc$2e...@news3.newsguy.com>,
"Frederick Glaysher" <fgla...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I believe these TOSsed messages by Mark Foster
> reveal quite clearly what he and other fundamentalists
> on AOL are attempting to suppress....
>
> Subject: Re: Please Read!!!
> Date: 02/18/1999 07:49 Central Standard Time
> From: Fglaysher
> Message-id: <19990218084955...@ng90.aol.com>
>
> >Subject: Please Read!!!
> >Date: 2/15/1999 5:26 PM Eastern Standard Time
> >From: RBCF Mark
> >Message-id: <19990215172653...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >I am honestly getting tired of sending so many posts along to CAT
> (Community
> >Action Team -- the folks who handle TOS reports). However, I am required
> >to do so, as a part of my volunteer position in this forum. But it is
> >getting old rather quickly.
> >
> >May I make a personal plea that we please treat each other with the
> >human dignity that each of us deserve?
>
> What about Bahais, Mark? Are they going to respect others' opinions?
> After over 22 years in the Bahai Faith, I would find it to be a first....
>
> It doesn't matter whether we agree with
> >someone. We can still address each person with basic human kindness. If
> >we would begin to do so, the majority of TOS reports (by myself and by
> >others) would end.
>
> Sounds like a threat, none too veiled.... Unfortunately, I and others
> believe you are using a decidedly double standard in choosing who to
> report on to the TOSGeneral.... I don't believe there's any doubt that
that is
> the case.
Sheesh, I am a blind! When I first read that we can still address each