Asatru and Asatruar (pronunciation and usage question)

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Wrathchild

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Nov 11, 2002, 12:01:21 PM11/11/02
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I have just a couple of questions.
1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?
2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?

Singular: I am an Asatruar.
Plural: We are Asatruar.
Possesive: We are going to an Asatruar gathering.

Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I would really like to use the
words properly.

-Justin


_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/
May Modi and Magni be with you,

· ·(¯`·.¸¸.-> Justin ·.¸¸.·´¯)
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/


Hávamál 155: (Thorpe Translation)
For the eighth I know,
what to all is useful to learn:
where hatred grows
among the sons of men -
that I can quickly assuage.

http://mjollnir-hammer.tripod.com/
Mjollnir - Hammer Of Thor
**********************************

BelieveNoOne

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Nov 11, 2002, 12:09:06 PM11/11/02
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The closest i can come to without hearing someone else speak it, is

Ah Sa Troo Ar.

Going by the way many European languages pronounce letters. (including
Icelandic)

-Grimner-

Wrathchild wrote:

--
ÐÏ à¡± á


Dirk Bruere

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Nov 11, 2002, 1:18:26 PM11/11/02
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"Wrathchild" <Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote in message
news:t9mvsu032is7ah23q...@4ax.com...

> I have just a couple of questions.
> 1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?
> 2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?
>
> Singular: I am an Asatruar.
> Plural: We are Asatruar.
> Possesive: We are going to an Asatruar gathering.
>
> Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I would really like to use the
> words properly.

You are going to be told different, but the way I say it is:
Acer-Troo

Singular: I am Asatru.
Plural: We are Asatru.
Possesive: We are going to an Asatru gathering.

FFF
Dirk

Dirk Schmitt

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Nov 12, 2002, 3:05:36 AM11/12/02
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Heil All,

Wrathchild" <Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote in message
news:t9mvsu032is7ah23q...@4ax.com...

> I have just a couple of questions.
> 1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?

There seem to be two common spellings. One being Ásatrú, the other Asatru.
The first is pronounced:

Á ("a" as in father) satrú ("u" as in droop) ergo: Ahsatroo

The other version being Asatru, pronounced as it is spelt.

This comes from the words:

áss (gen, áss and ásar; pl, æsir, acc, æsi and ásu), m. one of the old
heathen gods in general, or esp, one of the older branch, in opp. to the
younger ones (the Vanir),

and

trú (gen. trúar) f. (I) Faith, word of honour (II) Religious faith, belief

Interesting words developed from trú:

trúaðir menn - believers
trúari (m) - believer

> 2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?
>
> Singular: I am an Asatruar.

I am Ásatrú
I am an Ásatrúar
I am trúari

> Plural: We are Asatruar.

We are Ásatrúar.
We are trúaðir menn.
We are trúari

> Possesive: We are going to an Asatruar gathering.

We are going to an Ásatrú gathering.

> Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I would really like to use the
> words properly.

No dramas... it's better to be sure if you want to be. But a good advisory
is also that the above is a mixture of English and Old Norse. Not the best
way to go about things.

Ver thu heil
Ulfrikr
AET


Aemon

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Nov 12, 2002, 6:14:44 AM11/12/02
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:09:06 GMT, BelieveNoOne <Pan...@Attbi.com>
wrote:

>The closest i can come to without hearing someone else speak it, is
>
>Ah Sa Troo Ar.
>
>Going by the way many European languages pronounce letters. (including
>Icelandic)

Icelanders say something more like "Ow sah true". People from the
Scandinavian countries might say "Ah sa tru". Either is quite
acceptable to me anyway.

Asatruar means practitioners of Asatru generally. A gathering would be
an "Asatru" gathering or a "Gathering of Asatruar".

Bless
Nik

Nygaard

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Nov 12, 2002, 6:41:01 AM11/12/02
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On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:01:21 GMT, Wrathchild
<Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote:

>I have just a couple of questions.
>1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?
>2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?
>
>Singular: I am an Asatruar.
>Plural: We are Asatruar.
>Possesive: We are going to an Asatruar gathering.
>
>Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I would really like to use the
>words properly.

I'm not quite sure about the icelandic, but both Norwegian and
Icelandic use the same word and spell it with an Å or Á, marking a
sound more like the O in "more" or "mountain" than A.

Áeh-sa-thrru, with a "rolling" R (think James Bond-russian accent)
should be close enough to do the job...

"Åsatru" means "faithful to the Æser", as "tru/tro" does not only mean
"truth", but also belief, faithfulness, trustworthyness, allegiance,
and the act of believing.

So when you say "I am an Asatruar", you are saying "I am a faithful to
the Æsir".

The grammar here is as always annoyingly complex. In the new norwegian
standard which is, ironically, closest to Norse, this is a feminine
word. But when used in the above sentences, the word becomes a
personal pronomen (or was that adjective? damn...), and, anyway, only
the singular form applies - "I am Ásatru", "We are Ásatru", "We are
going to an Ásatru gathering".

In icelandic, which to all practical purposes _is_ old norse, I am
fairly sure this is different. Anyone care to enlighten us?

And
...

Doug Freyburger

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Nov 12, 2002, 10:42:08 AM11/12/02
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Wrathchild wrote:
>
> 1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?

Proper? Shrug.

In English I usually hear is with an "ah" like "father" Ah-ss uh true.
Sometimes with a long a like "ace" Ace uh true. Occasionally with a
rolling one like "ouch" Ous uh true.

If "proper" goes with the numbers, the "ah" would win. If "proper"
goes with the word's origin, it was adopted into English from modern
Icelandic, so the way they say it in Iceland is the right way in English.
Both views are right, and too bad that's ambiguous. Languages are
ambiguous, especially big bastard vernacular that make their living
scarfing up lexicon from other tongues. #;^)%

Since a similar word appears in many other Germanic languages, their
word follows their rules. It's hilarious when someone from Norway or
the Netherlands comes onto the group and insists we have the word
wrong. Sure, if we were speaking/writing in their language, we'd use
their version of the word.

> 2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?

I use "heathen" to avoid the grammatical complexities of Asatruar. It's
hard enough to say on any regular basis, but I'm pretty sure I'd rarely
manage to use it correctly.

I am Asatru. I am a heathen. We are going to an Asatru meeting. We are
going to a gathering of heathens. In Asatru Lore it says ... The heathen
way of doing it is usually ...

Nygaard

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Nov 12, 2002, 3:49:22 PM11/12/02
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On 12 Nov 2002 07:42:08 -0800, dfre...@yahoo.com (Doug Freyburger)
wrote:

>Wrathchild wrote:
>>
>> 1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?
>
>Proper? Shrug.
>
>In English I usually hear is with an "ah" like "father" Ah-ss uh true.
>Sometimes with a long a like "ace" Ace uh true. Occasionally with a
>rolling one like "ouch" Ous uh true.
>
>If "proper" goes with the numbers, the "ah" would win. If "proper"
>goes with the word's origin, it was adopted into English from modern
>Icelandic, so the way they say it in Iceland is the right way in English.
>Both views are right, and too bad that's ambiguous. Languages are
>ambiguous, especially big bastard vernacular that make their living
>scarfing up lexicon from other tongues. #;^)%
>
>Since a similar word appears in many other Germanic languages, their
>word follows their rules. It's hilarious when someone from Norway or
>the Netherlands comes onto the group and insists we have the word
>wrong. Sure, if we were speaking/writing in their language, we'd use
>their version of the word.

Ouch.

Just doing my best to increase confusion according to the most divine
and Discordant teachings of Eris :)

All languages adopt new words as they need them. Some languages does
this along a pattern, but I'm not sure if there is such a pattern in
English. It seems to vary with regions and such. I would just go with
the majority if I were you...

>> 2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?
>
>I use "heathen" to avoid the grammatical complexities of Asatruar. It's
>hard enough to say on any regular basis, but I'm pretty sure I'd rarely
>manage to use it correctly.
>
>I am Asatru. I am a heathen. We are going to an Asatru meeting. We are
>going to a gathering of heathens. In Asatru Lore it says ... The heathen
>way of doing it is usually ...

Sounds fine to me.

And
...

Manny Olds

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Nov 12, 2002, 4:38:51 PM11/12/02
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Wrathchild <Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote:
> I have just a couple of questions.
> 1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?

Heh. Vingolf just got an email from someone in Sweden telling us we
spelled "Asatro" wrong on our web pages. I would think that the whole site
being in English would be a clue ...

--
Manny Olds (old...@pobox.com) of Riverdale Park, Maryland, USA

"If the world were merely seductive, that would be easy. If it were merely
challenging, that would be no problem. But I arise in the morning torn
between a desire to improve the world, and a desire to enjoy the world.
This makes it hard to plan the day." -- E. B. White

bowman

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Nov 12, 2002, 11:09:25 PM11/12/02
to
Doug Freyburger wrote:

> It's
> hard enough to say on any regular basis, but I'm pretty sure I'd rarely
> manage to use it correctly.

In a not too lucid moment, I used 'Asatruar' as a geocaching alias, partly
as a statement and partly to avoid duplication. It did generate some
interest in just what an 'Asatruar' was, but it does seem to be one of
those words that don't suggest a pronunciation.

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 13, 2002, 2:26:41 PM11/13/02
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Hello!

Dirk Schmitt <hrafn...@msn.com.au> wrote:
>[...]

>There seem to be two common spellings. One being Ásatrú, the other Asatru.
>The first is pronounced:

>Á ("a" as in father) satrú ("u" as in droop) ergo: Ahsatroo

As said, that's probably more an Old Icelandic pronounciation.

>[...]

>áss (gen, áss and ásar; pl, æsir, acc, æsi and ásu), m. one of the old
>heathen gods in general, or esp, one of the older branch, in opp. to the
>younger ones (the Vanir),

Are the æsir older than the Vanir? I thought it's the other way round?

>and

>trú (gen. trúar) f. (I) Faith, word of honour (II) Religious faith, belief

Right.

>Interesting words developed from trú:

>trúaðir menn - believers
>trúari (m) - believer

>> 2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?

>> Singular: I am an Asatruar.

>I am Ásatrú
>I am an Ásatrúar
>I am trúari

>> Plural: We are Asatruar.

>We are Ásatrúar.
>We are trúaðir menn.
>We are trúari

The latter one could be "We are trúarar" instead. If you do (Old)
Icelandic words, you can do it right, just as you say æsir and
vanir instead of "Ases" and "Vans" or similar.

>[...]

Í friði,

Hannah.

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 13, 2002, 2:20:59 PM11/13/02
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Hello!

Wrathchild <Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote:
>I have just a couple of questions.
>1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?

Depends.

Icelandic: Ásatrú = Á (like in "how", without the h) sa (s + like the
vowel in "luck") true (like the English world). Stress on the first
syllable.

Asatruar isn't an Icelandic word, I'd use something like
Ásatrúarmaður / Ásatrúarkona instead.

Swedish or Norwegian pronounciation will differ, as well as the
probable Old Icelandic does.

In German, I often use the pronounciation like a German would pronounce
the word "Asatru" from the spelling. In German, I'd say "Ich bin Asatru",
using it like an adjective, as well as like a substantive naming the
faith, e.g. "Asatru ist ...".

>2) What is the correct usage of Asatruar? Are these examples correct?

>Singular: I am an Asatruar.
>Plural: We are Asatruar.

Looks like current English use, but not Icelandic/German/...

>Possesive: We are going to an Asatruar gathering.

I'd say "to an Asatru gathering", building a composition between
Asatru (the substantive naming the faith) and gathering.
In German "zu einem Asatru-Treff" (in German, the dash is often
used for word compositions unless the words are completely joined).

>Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I would really like to use the
>words properly.

Define "properly" *g*

>-Justin

Í friði,

Hannah.

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 13, 2002, 2:22:52 PM11/13/02
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Hello!

Aemon <repub...@email.com> wrote:
>[...]

>Icelanders say something more like "Ow sah true".

About right. Stress it on the first syllable.

>People from the
>Scandinavian countries might say "Ah sa tru".

Might that not even be something like Åsatro, pronounced with an
"o" sound as in "clock", but as a long vowel, in the beginning?
I'm not so good in Scandinavian pronounciation, though.

>[...]

Í friði,

Hannah.

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 13, 2002, 2:52:26 PM11/13/02
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Hello!

Nygaard <ola...@Tonline.no> wrote:
>[...]

>The grammar here is as always annoyingly complex. In the new norwegian
>standard which is, ironically, closest to Norse, this is a feminine
>word.

Interesting. You probably mean Nynorsk? Does Nynorsk differentiate
the old three genera (masculine, feminine, neuter) in general,
or is it rather similar to Swedish (utrum, neuter, except for the
personal pronouns which have 3 genera)?

But the feminine genus is quite okay, it's like in (Old) Icelandic.

>But when used in the above sentences, the word becomes a
>personal pronomen (or was that adjective? damn...),

Definitely not a pronoun. In German, I use "Asatru" as a substantive
meaning the faith, as a first part of composite nouns "Asatru-Treffen"
(Asatru meeting), and as adjective in predicative use "Ich bin Asatru".
I don't use it as adjective in attributive use (i.e. NOT "Der Asatru Mann").
In cases where I wished so, I'd rather use composites ("Der Asatru-Mann"),
which sounds slightly different when pronounced (mostly timing).

>and, anyway, only
>the singular form applies - "I am Ásatru", "We are Ásatru", "We are
>going to an Ásatru gathering".

>In icelandic, which to all practical purposes _is_ old norse, I am
>fairly sure this is different. Anyone care to enlighten us?

Ásatrú, f., gen. Ásatrúar, ... is a substantive, derived from trú f.
It can't be used as an adjective. It can be used, mostly in its genitive
form, in composites (Ásatrúarmaður). Perhaps the suggestion with
(Ása)trúaður could help if you need an adjective describing an
Asatru person. At least my Icelandic dictionary suggests that "trúaður"
is an adjective with appropriate meaning. The meeting would perhaps
be "Ásatrúarfundur", i.e. using a composite noun.

Í friði,

Hannah.

Rune Bjørnsen

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Nov 13, 2002, 3:02:34 PM11/13/02
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Hannah Schroeter wrote:

>
> Might that not even be something like Åsatro, pronounced with an
> "o" sound as in "clock", but as a long vowel, in the beginning?
> I'm not so good in Scandinavian pronounciation, though.
>

Thats more or less like I say it :-)

Rune the Norwegian

Nygaard

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Nov 14, 2002, 5:39:50 AM11/14/02
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On 13 Nov 2002 19:52:26 GMT, han...@schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
wrote:

>Hello!
>
>Nygaard <ola...@Tonline.no> wrote:
>>[...]
>
>>The grammar here is as always annoyingly complex. In the new norwegian
>>standard which is, ironically, closest to Norse, this is a feminine
>>word.
>
>Interesting. You probably mean Nynorsk? Does Nynorsk differentiate
>the old three genera (masculine, feminine, neuter) in general,
>or is it rather similar to Swedish (utrum, neuter, except for the
>personal pronouns which have 3 genera)?
>
>But the feminine genus is quite okay, it's like in (Old) Icelandic.

Both Nynorsk and Bokmål has tree genera, though Bokmål didn't accept
the existence of a feminine genus until the 40's or 50's. Spoken
Norwegian seldom use the neuter, using the feminine when the subject
is not explicitly or "traditionally" male or neuter.

The choice of genus for any word seems to be a matter of sociolect and
dialect. Generally, urban and suburban, "westsiders" use the male
genus much more than pastorals and "eastsiders".

BTW, what is "utrum"? my grammar vocabulary really needs some brushing
up... :)

And
...

Sigvaldi Eggertsson

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Nov 14, 2002, 7:05:21 AM11/14/02
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han...@schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter) wrote in message news:<aqu8mr$b36$5...@c3po.schlund.de>...

> Hello!
>
> Wrathchild <Nos...@spammersmustdie.com> wrote:
> >I have just a couple of questions.
> >1) What is the proper pronunciation of the words Asatru and Asatruar?
>
> Depends.
>
> Icelandic: Ásatrú = Á (like in "how", without the h) sa (s + like the
> vowel in "luck") true (like the English world). Stress on the first
> syllable.
>
> Asatruar isn't an Icelandic word, I'd use something like
> Ásatrúarmaður / Ásatrúarkona instead.

Hannah, "Ása trúar" could well be the answer to the question "Hverrar
trúar ert þú?" (What is our faith?)

Sigvaldi Eggertsson

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 19, 2002, 4:46:15 PM11/19/02
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Komdu vel, Sigvaldi!

Sigvaldi Eggertsson <sig...@binet.is> wrote:
>[...]

Ég skrifaði:

>> Asatruar isn't an Icelandic word, I'd use something like
>> Ásatrúarmaður / Ásatrúarkona instead.

Sigvaldi skrifaði:

>Hannah, "Ása trúar" could well be the answer to the question "Hverrar
>trúar ert þú?" (What is our faith?)

Yes, I know. However, it's definitely not a nominative (nefnifall)
form of a known word in Icelandic, nor Old Icelandic, as the
English usage seems to "indicate".

>Sigvaldi Eggertsson

Kveðjur,

Hannah.

Hannah Schroeter

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Nov 23, 2002, 5:42:58 PM11/23/02
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Hello!

Nygaard <ola...@Tonline.no> wrote:
>[...]

>Both Nynorsk and Bokmål has tree genera, though Bokmål didn't accept


>the existence of a feminine genus until the 40's or 50's. Spoken
>Norwegian seldom use the neuter, using the feminine when the subject
>is not explicitly or "traditionally" male or neuter.

Interesting. That seems to be quite a difference to what I know about
swedish. (utrum + neutrum, except for the personal and possesive
pronouns in the 3rd persion singular)

>The choice of genus for any word seems to be a matter of sociolect and
>dialect. Generally, urban and suburban, "westsiders" use the male
>genus much more than pastorals and "eastsiders".

Interesting. In German, (like in Icelandic) the genus of words is quite
fixed.

>BTW, what is "utrum"? my grammar vocabulary really needs some brushing
>up... :)

It's a genus unifying both masculine and feminine. It is assumed that
(Proto) Indo European had Utrum/Neutrum at some stage, and that
Utrum has split up to Masculinum and Femininum only in a later stage.
And in Swedish, they seem to have merged again, save for the remnants
of the three-genus-system in the personal/possesive pronouns.

>And
>...

Yes?

Kind regards,

Hannah.

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