The Bible and slavery
mike...@hotmail.com
bible. Following these biblical quotes are examples to how the human values
and primitive morals of a society recorded almost two millennia ago, can be
used wrongly:
"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his
hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no
vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property." [Exodus 21:20-21]
"... then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door,
and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your
maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17]
"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have - you may acquire male
and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you… they also may
become your possession. You may even bequeath them… as a possession; you can
use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of
Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another." [Leviticus
25:44-46]
"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh,
with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart. [Ephesians 6:5]
"All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as
worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be
spoken against." [1 Timothy 6:1]
"Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with
external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart,
fearing the Lord." [Colossians 3:22]
"Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be
well-pleasing, not argumentative." [Titus 2:9]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures,
both by precept and example." [Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South
Carolina]
"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating
it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." [Rev. Alexander Campbell]
"The extracts from Holy Writ unequivocally assert the right of property in
slaves." [Rev. E.D. Simms, professor, Randolph-Macon College]
"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to hold
the slave in bondage." [Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]
"In another area of human rights, many Christian clergymen advocated slavery.
Historian Larry Hise notes in his book 'Pro-Slavery' that ministers 'wrote
almost half of all defenses of slavery published in America.' He lists 275
men of the cloth who used the Bible to prove that white people were entitled
to own black people as work animals." [James A. Haught, 'Holy Horrors']
"The delegates of the annual conference are decidedly opposed to modern
abolitionism, and wholly disclaim any right, wish, or intention to interfere
in the civil and political relation between master and slave in the
slave-holding states of the union." [Methodist Episcopal Church, Statement of
the General Conference, Cincinnati, May 1836]
"Montgomery, Alabama. A white Republican state senator running for Congress
wrote a speech in which he argued that slavery is justified by the Bible and
was good for African Americans. ...'People who are bitter and hateful about
slavery are obviously bitter and hateful against God and his word, because
they reject what God says and embrace what mere humans say concerning
slavery,' Charles Davidson wrote." [San Francisco Chronicle, 10 May 1996
(Associated Press)]
"My correspondent thinks with Mr. Jefferson, that Jehovah has no attributes
that will harmonize with slavery; and that all men are born free and equal.
Now, I say let him throw away his Bible as Mr. Jefferson did his and then
they will be fit companions. But never disgrace the Bible by making Mr.
Jefferson its expounder, nor Mr. Jefferson by deriving his sentiments from
it. Mr. Jefferson did not bow to the authority of the Bible, and on this
subject I do not bow to him." [Rev. Thornton Stringfellow, D.D., in
"Scriptural View of Slavery," a work showing that the Bible sanctions
slavery, from John E. Remsburg, "Six Historic Americans. Chapter 2: Thomas
Jefferson"]
- And now i would like to close with a quote from Mr. Douglass:
"I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my
legs."
[Frederick Douglass, escaped slave]
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John F.
When your opinion and God's word don't agree, your opinion doesn't count.
John
mike...@hotmail.com wrote in message <76ost5$hlk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
oving
mike...@hotmail.com heeft geschreven in bericht
<76ost5$hlk$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Here are a collection of quotes in regards to the teachings of slavery in
the
>bible. Following these biblical quotes are examples to how the human values
>and primitive morals of a society recorded almost two millennia ago, can be
>used wrongly:
>
>"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his
>hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no
>vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property." [Exodus 21:20-21]
>
>"... then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the
door,
>and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your
>maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17]
>
>"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have - you may acquire
male
>and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you… they also may
>become your possession. You may even bequeath them… as a possession; you
can
>use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons
of
>Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another." [Leviticus
>25:44-46]
This for the people of Israel.
>"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh,
>with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart. [Ephesians 6:5]
>
>"All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as
>worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be
>spoken against." [1 Timothy 6:1]
>
>"Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with
>external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of
heart,
>fearing the Lord." [Colossians 3:22]
>
>"Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be
>well-pleasing, not argumentative." [Titus 2:9]
This about position.
I don't think some workers are better off in the western world these days
;-)
It is easy to condemn, but difficult to be pleased in the Lord in the
position you'r in.
That is not an allowing of slavery, but a testimony for the boss.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures,
>both by precept and example." [Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South
>Carolina]
'Holding slaves' as done in America is not what is seen in the OT, it must
be added that the 'slave' was released at 7 years, it was more working to
pay debts etc.
(Deut. 15:9)
So the slavekeeping as done in America and as collapsed in the Civil War is
a crime according the Scripture.
All these liars with the Bible in their hand to abuse it for their purpose
were wrong.
>"I draw my warrant from the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to
hold
>the slave in bondage." [Rev. Thomas Witherspoon, Presbyterian, of Alabama]
O, does Witherspoon like bondage games?
I don't think that anyone can keep slave these days.
But some still do.
Sad.
Regards,
Oving.
Michael Painter
them" and "permanent slaves. "
mean 7 years?
Deut 15:9 only mentions the year of release. Do you follow 15:2 and stop
making and or collecting house payments?
The key however would seem to be 15:3.
If he is a foreigner then you may release him after seven years but them
enslave him again, which is is agreement with terms like forever.
Five seconds of freedom every seven years sure seems like slavery.
oving
Michael Painter heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>>'Holding slaves' as done in America is not what is seen in the OT, it must
>>be added that the 'slave' was released at 7 years, it was more working to
>>pay debts etc.
>>(Deut. 15:9)
>So terms like "he shall be your servant forever" and "You may even bequeath
>them" and "permanent slaves. "
>mean 7 years?
>
>Deut 15:9 only mentions the year of release. Do you follow 15:2 and stop
>making and or collecting house payments?
Making and collecting is not my job.
I do not own, collect or give loan. I am not a bank ;-)
I am a 'slave', have a boss and our family rents a house.
I don't think I made myself clear, what I wanted to say was the release of a
slave, not of loan.
That is Deut. 15:18 and 15:12 (and off course vs. 9).
>The key however would seem to be 15:3.
>If he is a foreigner then you may release him after seven years but them
>enslave him again, which is is agreement with terms like forever.
Making a loan as 'release' is from context, not the same as the 6 years that
the slave served.
It shows similarities, but is not per se the same.
15:3 says nothing about re-enslaving.
I wonder were you get that from.
>Five seconds of freedom every seven years sure seems like slavery.
I don't think that is the definition of 'release', don't you?
When looked at Exodus 21:27, immediately release have to be done at body
harm.
I don't think the slavebosses of the US ever studied that verse as careful
they looked to excuse their slavery.
Regards,
Oving.
Simcha Streltsov
: Here are a collection of quotes in regards to the teachings of slavery in the
: bible. Following these biblical quotes are examples to how the human values
: and primitive morals of a society recorded almost two millennia ago, can be
: used wrongly:
: maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17], etc.
Mike, while the quotes you bring deserve a discussion, I'd like to
first point out a very simple fact: you knowledge of science and
society are probably more advanced than of those who were the first
readers of the Bible - you still can not count - these verses are not
"almost 2000 y.o.", but a little more - 3,300 according to traditional
Jewish count, or approx 2,500 according to anti-religious scholars.
I am bothering to correct this minor error because the readers may
not take your other thoughts about more difficult issues seriously
if you make errors in simple computations
ps I may be wrong - maybe you made your post in 700 CE - 2,000
after Sinai, and it just showed up on my server?!
Simcha
Michael Painter
>
>Michael Painter heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>
>>>'Holding slaves' as done in America is not what is seen in the OT, it
must
>>>be added that the 'slave' was released at 7 years, it was more working to
>>>pay debts etc.
>>>(Deut. 15:9)
>>So terms like "he shall be your servant forever" and "You may even
bequeath
>>them" and "permanent slaves. "
>>mean 7 years?
>>
>>Deut 15:9 only mentions the year of release. Do you follow 15:2 and stop
>>making and or collecting house payments?
>
>Making and collecting is not my job.
>I do not own, collect or give loan. I am not a bank ;-)
>I am a 'slave', have a boss and our family rents a house.
Then do you advise others in light of the bible to stop after 7 years.
Do members of your church which believe as you follow this practice?
What proactive steps have you taken to see that the bible is followed?
Or perhaps you would argue that this is part of The Law that christians were
excused from by Christ.
>
>I don't think I made myself clear, what I wanted to say was the release of
a
>slave, not of loan.
>That is Deut. 15:18 and 15:12 (and off course vs. 9).
Slaves and loans are covered by the same rules in your bible, only economic
necessity has changed them.
>
>>The key however would seem to be 15:3.
>>If he is a foreigner then you may release him after seven years but them
>>enslave him again, which is is agreement with terms like forever.
>
>Making a loan as 'release' is from context, not the same as the 6 years
that
>the slave served.
>It shows similarities, but is not per se the same.
>15:3 says nothing about re-enslaving.
>I wonder were you get that from.
15:2 says what must be done and 3 say that you may do it again to a
foreigner.
>
>>Five seconds of freedom every seven years sure seems like slavery.
>
>
>I don't think that is the definition of 'release', don't you?
What I believe is not in question here.
mi...@my-dejanews.com
sim...@bu.edu (Simcha Streltsov) wrote:
> mike...@hotmail.com wrote:
> : Here are a collection of quotes in regards to the teachings of slavery in
the
> : bible. Following these biblical quotes are examples to how the human
values
> : and primitive morals of a society recorded almost two millennia ago, can be
> : used wrongly:
>
> : maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17], etc.
>
> Mike, while the quotes you bring deserve a discussion, I'd like to
> first point out a very simple fact: you knowledge of science and
> society are probably more advanced than of those who were the first
> readers of the Bible - you still can not count - these verses are not
> "almost 2000 y.o.", but a little more - 3,300 according to traditional
> Jewish count, or approx 2,500 according to anti-religious scholars.
>
> I am bothering to correct this minor error because the readers may
> not take your other thoughts about more difficult issues seriously
> if you make errors in simple computations
Most of the verses I quoted was actually from the new testament; Ephesians
6:5, 1Timothy 6:1, Colossians 3:22 and Titus 2:9. Those verses are certainly
not older than 2000 years.
mi...@my-dejanews.com
"John F." <jus...@no2spam.com> wrote:
> When your opinion and God's word don't agree, your opinion doesn't count.
So Christians should support slavery?
oving
Michael Painter heeft geschreven in bericht
>>Making and collecting is not my job.
>>I do not own, collect or give loan. I am not a bank ;-)
>>I am a 'slave', have a boss and our family rents a house.
>
>Then do you advise others in light of the bible to stop after 7 years.
Advise what?
>Do members of your church which believe as you follow this practice?
I don't know which practice you refer to, I was talking about slavery not
about loan.
>What proactive steps have you taken to see that the bible is followed?
What steps have to be taken on which verses of the Bible?
>Or perhaps you would argue that this is part of The Law that christians
were
>excused from by Christ.
Well, part of the Law, or more the whole Law is fulfilled in Christ.
As we follow Him, automatically we obey God's Law.
It is not argue of me, but simple obeying the Scripture.
Or do you suggest that the Law as in the OT is for the nations?
Would that not be preferring the one verse above the other verse, or even
denying it?
So you want me to do as in Deuteronomy and to deny as in Acts 15 for
example?
Tell me what you want and what you mean.
>>I don't think I made myself clear, what I wanted to say was the release of
>a
>>slave, not of loan.
>>That is Deut. 15:18 and 15:12 (and off course vs. 9).
>
>Slaves and loans are covered by the same rules in your bible, only economic
>necessity has changed them.
Ah, now it is 'my' bible, you're judging me with it while it is not even
'yours'?
How strange.
It would be fair enough to judge yourself also with it, otherwise hypocrism
would prevail.
I don't know what you are talking about at the time you mention 'same rules
in your bible'.
What specific rules in time do you mean?
>>
>>>The key however would seem to be 15:3.
>>>If he is a foreigner then you may release him after seven years but them
>>>enslave him again, which is is agreement with terms like forever.
>>
>>Making a loan as 'release' is from context, not the same as the 6 years
>that
>>the slave served.
>>It shows similarities, but is not per se the same.
>>15:3 says nothing about re-enslaving.
>>I wonder were you get that from.
>15:2 says what must be done and 3 say that you may do it again to a
>foreigner.
Perhaps that is written in your bible but not in 'mine' ;-)
You did not understand the context as well, so tell me, what is your 'bible'
and what is written in it?
And.. this was about slavery, not about loan at all, you dragged it in.
>>>Five seconds of freedom every seven years sure seems like slavery.
>>
>>
>>I don't think that is the definition of 'release', don't you?
>
>What I believe is not in question here.
I did mention the definition of 'release'.
From you words it meant five seconds.
If you uphold such a theory, you don't know what release means.
That is not a matter of believe, but of knowledge.
That is not a matter of believe, but acceptance of the facts.
Regards,
Oving.
Michael Painter
Fain ignorance but cut and refuse to comment on the key phrases.
Strange how seldom one fundamentalist comes to the aid of another and
supports them 100%.
That's why Martin Luther changed his views. He realized what was happening
when people listened to him and became their own interpreter of the bible.
"I do not admit that my doctrine can be judged by anyone, even the angels.
He who does not receive my doctrine cannot be saved"
-
oving wrote in message <76u1js$kad$3...@reader3.wxs.nl>...
John F.
>
>So Christians should support slavery?
If practice within Biblical guidelines.
John
oving
I wish you could telling me honestly what is written in your Bible and when
you're not a believer: I don't see the need to bash people you don't know.
Are you now satisfied?
Regards,
Oving.
Michael Painter heeft geschreven in bericht ...
Michael Painter
>I wish you could be honest and not calling me anything.
I didn't call you anything. I referred to you as a typical fundimentilset
christian. If that offends - it should.
>
>I wish you could telling me honestly what is written in your Bible and when
>you're not a believer: I don't see the need to bash people you don't know.
What is written in my bible except for my own notes is probably what is
written in yours.
I'm not a believer all the time.
I bashed your refusal to comment and mentioned that no two christians seem
to agrree with each other.
mi...@my-dejanews.com
Biblical guidelines?
"If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his
hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no
vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property." [Exodus 21:20-21]
"... then you shall take an awl and pierce it through his ear into the door,
and he shall be your servant forever. Also you shall do likewise to your
maidservant." [Deuteronomy 15:17]
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
oving
Michael Painter heeft geschreven in bericht
>>I wish you could be honest and not calling me anything.
>
>I didn't call you anything. I referred to you as a typical fundimentilset
>christian. If that offends - it should.
We should not offend, as we do not ourselves ;-)
>>I wish you could telling me honestly what is written in your Bible and
when
>>you're not a believer: I don't see the need to bash people you don't know.
>
>
>What is written in my bible except for my own notes is probably what is
>written in yours.
>I'm not a believer all the time.
I you are not a believer, without knowing the meaning of the words of the
Bible, I consider your comments just as one of the many of those not
believing.
I am glad that you mentioned this.
>I bashed your refusal to comment and mentioned that no two christians seem
>to agrree with each other.
Well, that's not true, because Matthew 18:20 is still practised on earth,
until He comes.
Before He comes, is now, you can still repent and follow the Way, Truth and
Life: the Lord Jesus Christ.
Regards,
Oving.