All God's Angels Are Gay
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
(a parable for the 21st century)
by Ezekiel J. Krahlin
(Jehovah's Queer Witness)
Imagine this unpleasant scene: A guardian angel who loves a
person so much appears before that person to make his life a
living miracle. But that person--let's call him Ishmael--takes
his angel's appearance for granted, being the spoiled brat his
parents turned him into. So he taunts the angel, lies to hurt
his feelings, even beats and kicks him whenever he feels like
it, just like he does to Ol' Dawg. Ishmael keeps shutting him
up, before the angel can explain to him of Our Father's Love
and all the Wondrous Things that life can be if you only open
your heart. So the angel pleads and pleads and pleads...but
all to no avail, so that, after a number of terrible months
without a single breakthrough, the angel realizes he's
accomplished his mission as best as possible, and must now
make himself invisible to this person, once more.
Yet this terrible heartbreak suffered by this angel does not
stop him from continuing his mission--albeit invisible--by
pleading and pleading and pleading and PLEADING until that Day
of Triumph comes, and come it will. In fact, the angel never
skips a beat in his devotion to a soul...for he knows how
truly blessed he is, and that it is all a celebration even in
the darkest hour. For it is in that darkest hour only, that
the angel can finally take center stage, and sing out his
heart to God. And in so doing, create a golden chord of
brotherly love that unites himself, the guardian angel, to
this person.
And the angel need only be yanked down once, before he uses
his wings. Yep, you gotta be A-1 tiptop absolute BEST soldier
to score that high! A perfect score, in fact. (And does this
foolish person get pulled up with his angel, or does the chord
break to leave the angel unfettered from any more pain? That,
I believe, depends on whether or not Ishmael has a change of
heart, and if it comes soon enough to make a difference.)
Now, you're probably thinking: "Yes, that does sadden me, as I
know there are all too many people in this world who are just
like that nasty Ishmael!" And as if by an afterthought, you
boast: "Thank God I'm not like that. I'd NEVER harm an angel!"
Oh, you wouldn't would you? Before you think so smug of
yourself, answer me this:
"Do you like gay people; that is: homosexuals?"
And your answer to that single question ALONE, will tell you
for sure, whether or not you are also an Ishmael. And God
shall pass His judgment upon you, accordingly. Let this
parable be spoken in every tongue, in every nation, and in
every home. Blessed be. And may The Angel of Justice pass
you over.
---finis
--
"Many are called but few are chosen;
So step right up for your lederhosen."
- Big Gay Brother [ gay-bible.org ]
rrock
>> "Do you like gay people; that is: homosexuals?"
... as much as any other gender, of which there are a plethora;
more than just two. Perhaps you have answered a question asked
by Kay, but understood by only a few...
rrock wrote:
>> Any aptitude toward the progress of learning a new social skill is
>> commendable on his part. Perhaps someday he will even find it within
>> himself to apologize to the rest of the people for whom he has only had
>> flames, vulgarity and insults in the past.
Kay asked:
> If he were to do so, I can't help wondering if any of you would accept
> such. You all seem so intent on hurting one another I weary of
> opening a post only to find it is just another diatribe by one or more
> of you against the others. Do you never tire of this?
Zeke answered:
>> it, just like he does to Ol' Dawg. Ishmael keeps shutting him
>> up, before the angel can explain to him of Our Father's Love
>> and all the Wondrous Things that life can be if you only open
>> your heart. So the angel pleads and pleads and pleads...but
>> all to no avail, so that, after a number of terrible months
>> without a single breakthrough, the angel realizes he's
>> accomplished his mission as best as possible, and must now
>> make himself invisible to this person, once more.
>>
SaintDavid1
like us.
--
David St. Albans
<chief_t...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1135657195....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
>
>>> "Do you like gay people; that is: homosexuals?"
>
>... as much as any other gender, of which there are a plethora;
>more than just two. Perhaps you have answered a question asked
>by Kay, but understood by only a few...
Well, THAT'S one of the more rare-because-intelligent remarks I've ever
gotten from my "All God Angels Are Gay" essay. Thanks much!
My angels have called me since quite young, to this calling for gay
liberation. Thus, they offer me writings that test people's attitudes
regarding this issue. IOW, my essays separate the chaff from the wheat,
when it comes to homophobia (or absence thereof). Most of the time, I
get horrid, threatening rants in return...that is: the usual.
A response like yours is a winning one, in my book.
--
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
<whispe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>No, they aren't. They are what they want to be. Each one different. Just
>like us.
Another reasoned, intelligent (and non-homophobic) reply. Thanks
immensely!
My essays dedicated to gay rights, sometimes are designed to provoke
whatever homophobia may reside in anyone who reads them...especially in
those who hide it well. You do not have any, nor does the first
responder.
If I ever get to meet you (or first responder), I will consider it a
great honor...in these times when so many are PRESSURED to hate gays as
a sign of being a patriotic Amerikan (or good Muslim).
Steel Dragon
> (.....)
>
> My essays dedicated to gay rights, sometimes are designed to
> provoke whatever homophobia may reside in anyone who reads
> them...especially in those who hide it well.
I also see sensuality (all forms - so including, but not
restricted to,
sexual "minorities") and spirituality as an explosive cocktail that
helps a lot to sort the wheat from the chaff.
One of my spirit guides has asked me to write a book about it, she
even gave me the title - Sacred Sex. I lack enough time, but I do
intend to do the best I can.
:-)
--
S. D.
rrock
chief_t...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 07:30:35 GMT, rrock <r...@rrockwell.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>> "Do you like gay people; that is: homosexuals?"
>>
>>... as much as any other gender, of which there are a plethora;
>>more than just two. Perhaps you have answered a question asked
>>by Kay, but understood by only a few...
>
>
> Well, THAT'S one of the more rare-because-intelligent remarks I've ever
> gotten from my "All God Angels Are Gay" essay. Thanks much!
Winning or not, as the case may be, I did take the time to review your
web site at some time in the past month. In all, it was found to be very
proactive. You take the time to present your material on a creative
platform and you waste no time bashing others for their own beliefs.
All in all, it is a credit to anyone who would take the time to express
their views on any subject matter.
> My angels have called me since quite young, to this calling for gay
> liberation. Thus, they offer me writings that test people's attitudes
> regarding this issue. IOW, my essays separate the chaff from the wheat,
> when it comes to homophobia (or absence thereof). Most of the time, I
> get horrid, threatening rants in return...that is: the usual.
>
> A response like yours is a winning one, in my book.
Critics are worth a dime per dozen. Racists are worth less than
a penny. Bigots wish they had the knowledge of racists, and news
casters are the prostitutes of bigots. As a means to control the
masses, propaganda has become the accepted form of information
fodder in the U.S. It is good to find a proactive agent in times
such as these. If someone wished to know something about a gay
perspective of angels, you are an expert resource and reference.
If someone wished to know how to become consumed in hatred toward
others, this news group already has a few of those types of experts
and they are really worthless reading to begin with. They do
provide hours of entertainment value as toys, though.
:)
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> I also see sensuality (all forms - so including, but not
> restricted to,
> sexual "minorities") and spirituality as an explosive cocktail that
> helps a lot to sort the wheat from the chaff.
It sure does! Especially when dealing with the male ego: affection is
often suppressed for the sake of some hot sex. This often leads to
unsafe sex, as well as disrespect for one's temporary partner. Throw in
hard drugs/alcohol, to suppress the caring side, and you have one
dangerous, toxic cocktail!
> One of my spirit guides has asked me to write a book about it, she
> even gave me the title - Sacred Sex. I lack enough time, but I do
> intend to do the best I can.
I'm sure you'll do a great job in putting this together. My own
approach is more sacred "affection" than "sex", simply because males
very much need to open up again, and learn the great wonder of intimate
trust, caring, and loyalty. It is also VERY important to emphasize
affection over sex, when befriending my homeless gay brothers...most of
whom are seriously dysfunctional, and take speed, crack, or heroin in
order to cope.
There are several with whom I am physically intimate now and then...but
always with our clothers on. We hold each other, kiss a long time,
laugh, maybe backrubs, footrubs, scal massage, and overall learn to
trust each other, and thus our friendship grows.
It is VERY difficult to achieve this non-sexual level with much
physical affection. I have to sacrifice a lot that others take for
granted, in order to prove I can "walk the walk" as well as "talk the
talk".
I walk a different path than many in the gay community: I'm not into
the leather scene (why kill innocent animals for the sake of our
vanity?), S&M, sex clubs, or bars. Unfortunately, there is hardly
anything left anymore for wholesome radicals like myself, so I'm out of
the loop--any loop--often rejected and even hated for my stand. Yet I
realize I'm a torch bearer, and eventually gay men will thank me for
standing firm with my particular beliefs.
And I don't blame gays per se for so much lewdness and hyper-sexed
attitudes. I blame our culture at large, which does same for heteros,
especially objectifying the female form to the point where acts of
violence and females and rape are considered marks of true manhood.
This is not only sad, it's SICK. And gays manifest that same
dysfunction in our own unique way.
In this day and age, it's a cryin' shame that I can walk down any
Amerikan city--not just "progressive", "compassionate" San Francisco
a.k.a. "Gay Mecca"--to see porno shops and shows that invite VERY
degrading attitudes and actions against women.
And this manifests in the gay culture as lots of nudity and exaggerated
genitalia on dolls and in images. As if our sexuality can ONLY be known
in that way...and not in any ways spiritual and ethical. I DO, and it's
on my website as well as in my own behavior as an example-setter of a
better direction.
I am as a result, often suppressed and villified by my gay brothers. As
if that weren't bad enough, all this hate talk radio (even here in gay
mecca) has made the homeless crowd even MORE homophobic, and thus our
streets that much MORE dangerous for gay street activists like myself.
One of the most popular hate talk hosts here, is one Michael
Savage...who has done a GOOD job with his sophistry, to wreck a very
fine friendship I had cultivated with one person on the streets.
Between listening to too much hate talk radio (and taking it too
seriously), and his closet bisexual "buddies" making fun of him for
hanging out with a gay activist (me), he finally rejected me in some
very vial ways.
I could go on, but my fingers get tired! Again, thanks for you sweet
response, Steel Dragon. And I'm sure you know full well that AFFECTION
and FRIENDSHIP are the heart of ALL successful relationships, not the
least of which are lovers and married folk.
I stand in complete solidarity with women's liberation. And am ashamed
of my gay brothers who remain anti-female (and racist).
Sinqueerly,
Zeke Krahlin
http://www.gay-bible.org
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> Winning or not, as the case may be, I did take the time to review your
> web site at some time in the past month. In all, it was found to be very
> proactive.
Thank you! I am honored.
> You take the time to present your material on a creative
> platform and you waste no time bashing others for their own beliefs.
I don't think you mean this the way it sounds. It's not my style to
promote bashing anyone, just because they think differently than
myslef, even when their beliefs are based on bigotry. Didn't you mean
"confronting" instead of "bashing" and "hateful beliefs" instead of
just "beliefs"? IOW:
I "waste no time confronting others with gay-hateful beliefs." Or
something like that.
> All in all, it is a credit to anyone who would take the time to express
> their views on any subject matter.
It is my life's labor of love: my calling, my dharma, my path of many
years. Often a very lonely path.
> Critics are worth a dime per dozen. Racists are worth less than
> a penny. Bigots wish they had the knowledge of racists, and news
> casters are the prostitutes of bigots. As a means to control the
> masses, propaganda has become the accepted form of information
> fodder in the U.S.
Here, here!
> It is good to find a proactive agent in times such as these.
Wow! Your thoughtful and compassionate words have reached me at a
crucial time, as I'm going through a most DIFFICULT cycle right now. A
zillion thanks, "rrock"! My spirits are elevated.
> If someone wished to know something about a gay
> perspective of angels, you are an expert resource and reference.
All hard-won. No false humility here! :)
> If someone wished to know how to become consumed in hatred toward
> others, this news group already has a few of those types of experts
> and they are really worthless reading to begin with. They do
> provide hours of entertainment value as toys, though.
Indeed! And when you focus on the gay issue these days, you make
yourself a most INVITING target (albeit unintentional).
> :)
;)
I would be very HAPPY to meet others who believe in angels, here in San
Francisco. For support and friendship...a great break from this vast
sea of atheistic cynicism that compose a large part of our society. But
just be aware: my left wing is much more prominent than the right one
(which is vestigial if still existant). :D
Some comfy coffeehouse would be a nice place to gather. Anyone
interested, please contact me. Thanks!
rrock
chief_t...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> rrock wrote:
>
>>Winning or not, as the case may be, I did take the time to review your
>>web site at some time in the past month. In all, it was found to be very
>>proactive.
>
>
> Thank you! I am honored.
>
>
>>You take the time to present your material on a creative
>>platform and you waste no time bashing others for their own beliefs.
>
>
> I don't think you mean this the way it sounds. It's not my style to
> promote bashing anyone, just because they think differently than
> myslef, even when their beliefs are based on bigotry. Didn't you mean
> "confronting" instead of "bashing" and "hateful beliefs" instead of
> just "beliefs"? IOW:
>
> I "waste no time confronting others with gay-hateful beliefs." Or
> something like that.
>
Actually literally speaking, you waste no time bashing anyone at all.
In other words... you do not bash others for their own beliefs.
You are proactive. You do not bash.
If i had written that you waste time bashing others, then perhaps
it would mean the way you are understanding it. But that is simply
not the case.
>>All in all, it is a credit to anyone who would take the time to express
>>their views on any subject matter.
>
>
> It is my life's labor of love: my calling, my dharma, my path of many
> years. Often a very lonely path.
But you have a ring? True?
>>Critics are worth a dime per dozen. Racists are worth less than
>>a penny. Bigots wish they had the knowledge of racists, and news
>>casters are the prostitutes of bigots. As a means to control the
>>masses, propaganda has become the accepted form of information
>>fodder in the U.S.
>
>
> Here, here!
>
>
>>It is good to find a proactive agent in times such as these.
>
>
> Wow! Your thoughtful and compassionate words have reached me at a
> crucial time, as I'm going through a most DIFFICULT cycle right now. A
> zillion thanks, "rrock"! My spirits are elevated.
>
Sometimes truth hurts, other times it looks like flattery. But if
its simply true, then you should blame yourself for all of your
hard work. It's only my part to let you know that there are people
in the world that read. Trust me when i say that my level of
compassion is equal to my level of hate.... nil. If I am speaking
in English then it must be this way for me. It is the only way
for me to safeguard my path back to where there is solace. In the
interim there is some little work for me to do, and so being in
a thinking mind is a chore that is necessary.
>>If someone wished to know something about a gay
>>perspective of angels, you are an expert resource and reference.
>
> All hard-won. No false humility here! :)
Diversity is a welcome guest to this group.
>>If someone wished to know how to become consumed in hatred toward
>>others, this news group already has a few of those types of experts
>>and they are really worthless reading to begin with. They do
>>provide hours of entertainment value as toys, though.
>
>
> Indeed! And when you focus on the gay issue these days, you make
> yourself a most INVITING target (albeit unintentional).
>>:)
>
>
> ;)
>
> I would be very HAPPY to meet others who believe in angels, here in San
> Francisco. For support and friendship...a great break from this vast
> sea of atheistic cynicism that compose a large part of our society. But
> just be aware: my left wing is much more prominent than the right one
> (which is vestigial if still existant). :D
>
> Some comfy coffeehouse would be a nice place to gather. Anyone
> interested, please contact me. Thanks!
> Sinqueerly,
LOL.. its good to see your pride. :)
> Zeke Krahlin
> http://www.gay-bible.org
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> Actually literally speaking, you waste no time bashing anyone at all.
> In other words... you do not bash others for their own beliefs.
> You are proactive. You do not bash.
I figured that's what you meant. Your phrasing caught me off guard.
> If i had written that you waste time bashing others, then perhaps
> it would mean the way you are understanding it. But that is simply
> not the case.
The phrase "wastes no time" can also mean the opposite of your intent,
like "gets to work right away", as in:
She wastes no time getting to her homework.
So what YOU mean is I don't waste my time bashing people. Quite true,
but I STILL get blamed for bashing, just the same. The ol' right-wing
scapegoat trap.
> But you have a ring? True?
Yes. But no one has joined it, since I founded it Nov. 27, 2003. I
remain the sole member. I stand VERY MUCH alone in this world, to my
chagrin. I know it will finally end, I am just very eager for the new
cycle to begin. And it has, in dribs and drabs...and I'm like an eager
pony at the starting gate, just BEGGING for someone to OPEN IT,
finally!
> Sometimes truth hurts, other times it looks like flattery. But if
> its simply true, then you should blame yourself for all of your
> hard work.
Well, "blame" is hardly the word that comes to my mind. "Reward" seems
more apt. And my reward is hinged on the success of those I've reached
out to, over the years. To see them grow unaddicted, healthy, vibrant,
sane, and loving. What people don't care to realize, or even listen to,
is how blatantly LONELY this can be, if you are GAY as well as
left-wing. I have been blowing the whistle to the world for quite a few
years now, that San Francisco has been UNDER ATTACK by right-wing goons
who have usurped our liberal media...Michael Savage being the main one
at the helms.
The one idiot alone has done a very good job of making the homeless
fear and hate gays, and each other. I am the only proclaimed gay
activist here in the Castro, that is INDEPENDENT of any group, cabal,
or clique. For it seems that what is out there (re. joining a group,
etc.) is at worst, a front for the right-wing or, at best, a hollow
shell of its former glory. I have PLENTY of gay brothers attack and
threaten me almost every day, for not being in the closet. They HATE me
because associating with me, might cause them to lose their job, where
no one thinks they're gay.
San Francisco has become every bit as homophobic as, say, Tulsa or any
other breadbasket, Xian fundamentalist burg.
Most homeless want NOTHING to do with me, once they know I'm
unabashadly gay. And these are even the ones who ENJOY discussing
politics of the day! But who do they love? MICHAEL SAVAGE, talk show
host of hate radio 9.10am here in "Gay Mecca"! This guy bashes gay
people CONSTANTLY, and is also very right-wing reactionary. He stirs up
his listeners into a mad froth. Just like Hitler: his first brownshirts
were homeless people, whom he HIRED (paid real wages) to terrorize good
citizens like Jews and their allies, and all others who were not
card-carrying Nazis.
It is happening again....and it's like a bad nightmare, 'cause hardly
ANYONE knows this is happening. It is FEAR they have succumbed to. With
me, the buck stops here. For I have not the LEAST lack of faith that
would make me believe otherwise, that soon people around me will wake
up, thanks to my whistle blowing, and finally APPRECIATE and BEFRIEND
me, and the homeless, and all other socially maltreated.
> It's only my part to let you know that there are people
> in the world that read.
You just did not realize that for me, my particular path, has been to
go through this extraordinary isolation as a requisite before
graduating to the next, much happier, level. And since I know such
loneliness, I know how AWFUL it must be for homeless people, especially
those who are homosexual. They are PRESSURED to act macho on the
streets, even here in "Gay Mecca"...The Castro being no exception.
A gay couple were brutally bashed earlier this year, in the heart of
Amsterdam's gay neighborhood.
It's happening ALL OVER, yet so far VERY FEW liberal/progressive
heteros admit this horrid and new reality.
I've been working VERY HARD to try to un-brainwash these homeless
people. Yet many who have roofs over their heads, have turned largely
to the right, politically speaking! This includes some very nasty
queers in my own building, including the mgr. So I don't even have a
friendly home to come home to any more!
I would say THEY are to blame, and "I" am to be honored.
I have NO DOUBT as to my imminent victory. I am simply a beleaugered
spiritual warrior sorely wounded, in desperate need of triage. I can
only heal myself so far...the rest relies on those in whom I've planted
my seeds of healing ideas. I suffer spiritual PTSD; all these swords in
my heart, and rocks upon my soul.
I'm doing the very best I can for myself; I've offered to meet others
who live in/near S.T. at a coffeehouse, with belief in angels our
common bond. Gay, straight, bi, trannie, male, female...doesn't matter
to me. What DOES matter is not being closeted, or hating another for
not being closeted. And to think that here in "Gay Mecca" this is even
an issue any more!
> Diversity is a welcome guest to this group.
I'm sure she's a lovely gal. I look forward to meeting her. :)
> LOL.. its good to see your pride. :)
It grows on me. Can't wash it off, no-how!
rrock
chief_t...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> rrock wrote:
>
>
> I figured that's what you meant. Your phrasing caught me off guard
Sorry about that.
>>But you have a ring? True?
>
>
> Yes. But no one has joined it, since I founded it Nov. 27, 2003. I
> remain the sole member. I stand VERY MUCH alone in this world, to my
> chagrin. I know it will finally end, I am just very eager for the new
> cycle to begin. And it has, in dribs and drabs...and I'm like an eager
> pony at the starting gate, just BEGGING for someone to OPEN IT,
> finally!
Wouldn't that require them to be the same sort of web-site as yours?
Perhaps the way the ring is presented would have some believe that
their sites would not qualify to be a part of it.
>>Sometimes truth hurts, other times it looks like flattery. But if
>>its simply true, then you should blame yourself for all of your
>>hard work.
>
>
> Well, "blame" is hardly the word that comes to my mind. "Reward" seems
> more apt. And my reward is hinged on the success of those I've reached
> out to, over the years. To see them grow unaddicted, healthy, vibrant,
> sane, and loving. What people don't care to realize, or even listen to,
> is how blatantly LONELY this can be, if you are GAY as well as
> left-wing. I have been blowing the whistle to the world for quite a few
> years now, that San Francisco has been UNDER ATTACK by right-wing goons
> who have usurped our liberal media...Michael Savage being the main one
> at the helms.
So then blame would be what you apply to others, and rewards are what
you would apply to yourself?
> The one idiot alone has done a very good job of making the homeless
> fear and hate gays, and each other. I am the only proclaimed gay
> activist here in the Castro, that is INDEPENDENT of any group, cabal,
> or clique. For it seems that what is out there (re. joining a group,
> etc.) is at worst, a front for the right-wing or, at best, a hollow
> shell of its former glory. I have PLENTY of gay brothers attack and
> threaten me almost every day, for not being in the closet. They HATE me
> because associating with me, might cause them to lose their job, where
> no one thinks they're gay.
Well out here in the mid-west, in the center of ye olde Bible belt,
the San Francisco area is considered to be very lenient. Around here,
though, strange as it may sound, the sort of discrimination you are
speaking of isn't anywhere to be found. Perhaps there are certain
lines of work where this is more prevalent than others, and also
keep in mind that people may be ashamed to advertise that they lost
their job due to their gender preferences.
> San Francisco has become every bit as homophobic as, say, Tulsa or any
> other breadbasket, Xian fundamentalist burg.
>
> Most homeless want NOTHING to do with me, once they know I'm
> unabashadly gay. And these are even the ones who ENJOY discussing
> politics of the day! But who do they love? MICHAEL SAVAGE, talk show
> host of hate radio 9.10am here in "Gay Mecca"! This guy bashes gay
> people CONSTANTLY, and is also very right-wing reactionary. He stirs up
> his listeners into a mad froth. Just like Hitler: his first brownshirts
> were homeless people, whom he HIRED (paid real wages) to terrorize good
> citizens like Jews and their allies, and all others who were not
> card-carrying Nazis.
But he isn't here to defend himself from your comments, true?
> It is happening again....and it's like a bad nightmare, 'cause hardly
> ANYONE knows this is happening. It is FEAR they have succumbed to. With
> me, the buck stops here. For I have not the LEAST lack of faith that
> would make me believe otherwise, that soon people around me will wake
> up, thanks to my whistle blowing, and finally APPRECIATE and BEFRIEND
> me, and the homeless, and all other socially maltreated.
>
Which is maltreated more, those who are gay, or those whom are of
an angelic understanding?
>>It's only my part to let you know that there are people
>>in the world that read.
>
> You just did not realize that for me, my particular path, has been to
> go through this extraordinary isolation as a requisite before
> graduating to the next, much happier, level. And since I know such
> loneliness, I know how AWFUL it must be for homeless people, especially
> those who are homosexual. They are PRESSURED to act macho on the
> streets, even here in "Gay Mecca"...The Castro being no exception.
>
> A gay couple were brutally bashed earlier this year, in the heart of
> Amsterdam's gay neighborhood.
>
> It's happening ALL OVER, yet so far VERY FEW liberal/progressive
> heteros admit this horrid and new reality.
> I've been working VERY HARD to try to un-brainwash these homeless
> people. Yet many who have roofs over their heads, have turned largely
> to the right, politically speaking! This includes some very nasty
> queers in my own building, including the mgr. So I don't even have a
> friendly home to come home to any more!
>
> I would say THEY are to blame, and "I" am to be honored.
But what is homelessness, actually, Zeke? That a person chooses to
put a box around themselves, or have a private toilet seems to be
one of the chief causes of the illusions of ownership. The homeless
are free, Zeke, and you know there is a sort of upside-down relationship
between being free and being owned by possessions. Its a relative
thing, but most people know of other people who simply own too much.
Wouldn't that sort of make a sliding scale? Have you ever been
homeless? Have you ever been free?
> I have NO DOUBT as to my imminent victory. I am simply a beleaugered
> spiritual warrior sorely wounded, in desperate need of triage. I can
> only heal myself so far...the rest relies on those in whom I've planted
> my seeds of healing ideas. I suffer spiritual PTSD; all these swords in
> my heart, and rocks upon my soul.
>
> I'm doing the very best I can for myself; I've offered to meet others
> who live in/near S.T. at a coffeehouse, with belief in angels our
> common bond. Gay, straight, bi, trannie, male, female...doesn't matter
> to me. What DOES matter is not being closeted, or hating another for
> not being closeted. And to think that here in "Gay Mecca" this is even
> an issue any more!
>
It would be interesting to hear about the progress, even more to bring
some of the people that participate here into the news group.
>>Diversity is a welcome guest to this group.
>
>
> I'm sure she's a lovely gal. I look forward to meeting her. :)
Oh, she is here and in hiding. The diversity bashers keep her head low.
You will see lots of comments here and there saying that certain particular
people will not post their beliefs. There are others whom are out of the
closet, so to speak though, who are bashed every time that they make a
post. Some people just cannot achieve the simple concept of diversity
and feel threatened by the existence of others whom have different types,
quantities, and substance of information to share. There is a big
difference between being proactive and being an antagonist.
>
>>LOL.. its good to see your pride. :)
>
>
> It grows on me. Can't wash it off, no-how!
It is just another way in which you show yourself to be truly as
you claim to be. Gay humor has no equal counterpart that i am
aware of. It has a genre of wit all it's own.
Steel Dragon
Nice feed-back, thanks.
Adding just a few things here and there ...
>> I also see sensuality (all forms - so including, but not
>> restricted to, sexual "minorities") and spirituality as an
>> explosive cocktail that helps a lot to sort the wheat from
>> the chaff.
>
> It sure does! Especially when dealing with the male ego:
> affection is often suppressed for the sake of some hot sex.
> This often leads to unsafe sex, as well as disrespect for
> one's temporary partner. Throw in hard drugs/alcohol, to
> suppress the caring side, and you have one dangerous, toxic
> cocktail!
Maybe one of the surest ways to blow the male ego in the "homo
machisto" species is the acceptance of passive homosexual
behavior - in other words, I ended up believing that most machos
do indeed fear acceptance of this component of sensuality and
that this very fear triggers a lot of their aggressivity.
>> One of my spirit guides has asked me to write a book about
>> it, she even gave me the title - Sacred Sex. I lack enough
>> time, but I do intend to do the best I can.
>
> I'm sure you'll do a great job in putting this together. My
> own approach is more sacred "affection" than "sex", simply
> because males very much need to open up again, and learn the
> great wonder of intimate trust, caring, and loyalty. It is
> also VERY important to emphasize affection over sex, when
> befriending my homeless gay brothers...most of whom are
> seriously dysfunctional, and take speed, crack, or heroin in
> order to cope.
> (.....)
Well, I think that what you speak about here is your dedication
to soul healing towards people who ended up being wounded
(spiritually) by the difficulties in accepting their feelings & the
(obviously non-compassionate) look of others on them, plus
the excesses into which some went as a reaction to this lack of
love. I really respect that and wish you good luck.
And I strongly feel that this kind of spiritual work (basically,
following your heart and spending time and effort in order to
help some of the people that it seems society is much less
interested to help than others, be it homosexuals, homeless
people or whatever) is something your angels highly value in
you - it speaks for you.
My point was more (in a way somewhat similar to some tantric
teachings) that Spirit teaches His/Her ways by lots of means,
including sensuality. This of course is a big slap in the face for
all the tenants of these dark "religions" who feel they are so
much more intelligent than Spirit and want to teach God about
the big mistake He/She did when granting, among many other
gifts, sensuality to mankind.
One last thing I found out that you may find interesting (I'm
not pretending to be the only one conscious of that, it's only
that for me, it's my spiritual path that made me come to this
conclusion) is that it seems one of the gifts of same sex
sensual relationships is to show the difference between
sensuality and reproduction. Maybe it's obvious to some
people, but it's probably worth remembering for many others.
---
S. D.
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> Wouldn't that require them to be the same sort of web-site as yours?
Only that their site contain a prominent portion dedicated to
sexual-minority rights in one way or another.
> Perhaps the way the ring is presented would have some believe that
> their sites would not qualify to be a part of it.
Nonsense. My requirement is broad enough. The problem is, many fear
guilt-by-association, that becoming part of my Final Testament Ring,
they could more easily be on a right-wing gov't list of left-wing
queers and other liberals.
Also, while many who enjoy my site, also have their own pro-LGBT
site...it just doesn't click in, to join my ring. I don't think
everyone is particularly gung-ho with any sort of "web ring"
membership.
> So then blame would be what you apply to others, and rewards are what
> you would apply to yourself?
You originally said I should blame myself for all my hard work. Why the
word "blame"? How about "take credit"? I'm very PROUD of all my good
works.
> Well out here in the mid-west, in the center of ye olde Bible belt,
> the San Francisco area is considered to be very lenient. Around here,
> though, strange as it may sound, the sort of discrimination you are
> speaking of isn't anywhere to be found.
That is just SO untrue. Homophobia remains VIRULENT throughout ALL
these United States, ESPECIALLY the south, and bible belt. You just
hang around with the right people. This makes it easy to not be exposed
to the overwhelming heterocentrism that crushes the lives of most gay
people. The fact we adapt so well (like chamelions) does not mean the
homophobia is no longer a problem.
I ASSURE you: whether gay or not, if you wear a "gay rights" button at
work day in day out, believe me, you will become a target of prejudice.
Unlike wearing a political button for , say, black rights or women's
rights.
> Perhaps there are certain
> lines of work where this is more prevalent than others,
Not really. In most cases, the workplace is a hostile environment for
those who do not toe the heterocentric line. What workplaces do you see
gay men hugging gay men (and gay women hugging gay women), holding
hands down the hallway...as you see heteros commonly do these things so
frequently no one even hardly notices?
> and also
> keep in mind that people may be ashamed to advertise that they lost
> their job due to their gender preferences.
I wouldn't call is "shame" except to mask and trivialize the utter
TERRORISM most job places wield over homosexual employees.
> But he isn't here to defend himself from your comments, true?
There is never a cop or a human being to defend ME from his threats and
attacks! So I hardly feel any urge to bring "fairness" to his side.
Usenet has never been considered a place where judgment can be fairly
passed on whatever situation one chooses. It's an inappropriate tool
for the occassion.
> Which is maltreated more, those who are gay, or those whom are of
> an angelic understanding?
Those who are gay. If you have an angelic understand and are
heterosexual, you will still suffer far less from prejudice, than if
you are ALSO gay.
> But what is homelessness, actually, Zeke? That a person chooses to
> put a box around themselves, or have a private toilet seems to be
> one of the chief causes of the illusions of ownership.
You are simply TRIVIALIZING the horrid situation of people who've had
their lives strip down to the barest essentials, totally exposed to the
public eye, and public whims. It is embarassing, stressful, cold and
very hostile. Don't tell me that "homelessness" is just a state of
mind!
These are REAL people who have been DENIED pursuit of their happiness,
in the most awful way possible.
> The homeless
> are free, Zeke, and you know there is a sort of upside-down relationship
> between being free and being owned by possessions.
Nonsense. Having access to a decent roof over your head, food,
clothing, and dignified employment is NOT the same as owning
possessions. One's attitudes about possessing things, had NOTHING to do
with homelessness...except perhaps to detract from this serious issue,
to make it look unimportant.
> Its a relative
> thing, but most people know of other people who simply own too much.
> Wouldn't that sort of make a sliding scale? Have you ever been
> homeless? Have you ever been free?
Well, that's a sneaky way to shed all guilt about the homeless. But is
your conscience REALLY clear? I doubt that very much! Being homeless
usually makes you a PRISONER of society, not a free spirit. And yes, I
have been homeless. I AM a free spirit, who now happens to have a roof
over my ahead, albeit a single room.
> It would be interesting to hear about the progress, even more to bring
> some of the people that participate here into the news group.
I am rapidly developing a network of kindred souls, mostly homeless.
This time, it's working out for me. So I no longer need to find an
angel-group...though it sure would be nice to still create one.
> It is just another way in which you show yourself to be truly as
> you claim to be. Gay humor has no equal counterpart that i am
> aware of. It has a genre of wit all it's own.
That is true for EVERY minority...their ethnic humor is savory and
unique. Gay humor being no exception. What is really neat, is when you
have a CROSSOVER of humor, such as "gay/black" or "gay/cowboy" or
"gay/Jewish", etc. Then you REALLY get the fantastic queer twist on
each of these ethnicities own brand of humor.
rrock
chief_t...@bluebottle.com wrote:
> rrock wrote:
>
>>Wouldn't that require them to be the same sort of web-site as yours?
>
> Only that their site contain a prominent portion dedicated to
> sexual-minority rights in one way or another.
As a measure of activism, have you taken the time to petition other
webmasters at sites which would fit this definition? Perhaps the
difficulty is a matter of advertisement.
>>Perhaps the way the ring is presented would have some believe that
>>their sites would not qualify to be a part of it.
>
> Nonsense. My requirement is broad enough. The problem is, many fear
> guilt-by-association, that becoming part of my Final Testament Ring,
> they could more easily be on a right-wing gov't list of left-wing
> queers and other liberals.
This borders on accusing the government of conspiracy to act against
it's own constituency. Was that your intent? The statistics of the matter
show the following:
*United States Population: 295,734,134 (July 2005 est.)
+Total Civilian Federal Employees: 2,725,900 (2003)
Roughly one out of every one-hundred U.S. citizens works for the
U.S. government.
¿"One thing the 2000 Census does not do is indicate how many gay,
lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people there are."
This was verified after spending a few hours on double checking
that statement. Therefore if you will accept the source of the
demographic data as valid, four percent of the U.S. population
is either gay or lesbian. It would indicate (using a normal bell
curve formula) that:
0.707 * 0.04 * 2,725,900 = 77,088 gay and lesbian federal employees.
If you believe that there is a conspiracy, it would be a good
idea to target your audience to those seventy-seven thousand
people. There are three reasons why:
1) If there is a conspiracy, they might be able to help reveal it.
2) They represent clear evidence that a conspiracy does not exist.
3) They could give you their honest opinions about whether or not
a conspiracy exists, in an effort to enlighten you to the facts
of the matter and to give you better reference data.
*source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html
+source: http://www.opm.gov/feddata/factbook/2004/factbook.pdf
¿source: http://www.gaydemographics.org/USA/2000_Census_Total.htm
> Also, while many who enjoy my site, also have their own pro-LGBT
> site...it just doesn't click in, to join my ring. I don't think
> everyone is particularly gung-ho with any sort of "web ring"
> membership.
Part of being a pro-active activist is in reaching out to convince
others of the benefits of rings such as these. UseNet is certainly
one avenue, but a more selectively aimed target audience might
prove to be more effective.
>>So then blame would be what you apply to others, and rewards are what
>>you would apply to yourself?
>
> You originally said I should blame myself for all my hard work. Why the
> word "blame"? How about "take credit"? I'm very PROUD of all my good
> works.
Work is work, it is something to leave behind from this incarnation.
The positive and negative connotations of work are reciprocal. To
be proud of your work will then equally keep you from continuing to
work further. Satisfaction is a quality of stasis rather than work.
Blame has motivating attributes, and urges one to continue.
>>Well out here in the mid-west, in the center of ye olde Bible belt,
>>the San Francisco area is considered to be very lenient. Around here,
>>though, strange as it may sound, the sort of discrimination you are
>>speaking of isn't anywhere to be found.
>
> That is just SO untrue. Homophobia remains VIRULENT throughout ALL
> these United States, ESPECIALLY the south, and bible belt. You just
> hang around with the right people. This makes it easy to not be exposed
> to the overwhelming heterocentrism that crushes the lives of most gay
> people. The fact we adapt so well (like chamelions) does not mean the
> homophobia is no longer a problem.
>
> I ASSURE you: whether gay or not, if you wear a "gay rights" button at
> work day in day out, believe me, you will become a target of prejudice.
> Unlike wearing a political button for , say, black rights or women's
> rights.
Most assuredly, the types and genders of the people of whom are associated
with me are demographically dispersed consistent with the national averages.
The topic under consideration was unfair labor practices and firing of
individuals who were alleged to be homosexual. The topic may or may not
have directly to do with fear of homosexuals, or activism based on those
fears, however, as the case may be, and as previously stated, San Francisco
is considered to have a higher gay population, and therefore a stronger
gay representation in the government on the average than any locale within
the midwest. The topics that you are discussing, compared to the topics
discussed by the gay community in the midwest appear to have different
opinions on the matter of problematic employer gender discrimination.
>>Perhaps there are certain
>>lines of work where this is more prevalent than others,
>
> Not really. In most cases, the workplace is a hostile environment for
> those who do not toe the heterocentric line. What workplaces do you see
> gay men hugging gay men (and gay women hugging gay women), holding
> hands down the hallway...as you see heteros commonly do these things so
> frequently no one even hardly notices?
>
It appears that you have limited your perspective somewhat to only
a certain subset of employers. It appears that you have never been
introduced to anyone within an organization whom has any control over
that organization, such as a CEO, CFO, or CIO, whom is gay or lesbian.
It makes me wonder if you feel that gay and lesbian people are somehow
unable to achieve, through their education and work experience, any
degree of accomplishment. The perspective is very close to anti-gay in
itself. Because you are gay, however, this leads me to believe that it
is your sources of statistics which are faulty rather than your intentions.
>>and also
>>keep in mind that people may be ashamed to advertise that they lost
>>their job due to their gender preferences.
>
> I wouldn't call is "shame" except to mask and trivialize the utter
> TERRORISM most job places wield over homosexual employees.
This sounds to me to be a personal understanding of your own. This, of
course, statistically speaking, would mean that there are others that
share your perspective. But also, there are many people of many races,
and creeds whom are ostracized in the work-place. Rather than an
exception to the rule, being a disgruntled gay employee appears to be
statistically normal. In other words, if one out of every seventeen
employees in a work-place are disgruntled, the number of disgruntled
gays in a work-place will also be one out of every seventeen.
>>But he isn't here to defend himself from your comments, true?
>
> There is never a cop or a human being to defend ME from his threats and
> attacks! So I hardly feel any urge to bring "fairness" to his side.
> Usenet has never been considered a place where judgment can be fairly
> passed on whatever situation one chooses. It's an inappropriate tool
> for the occassion.
>
...at best. But since this is a news group for the discussion of
angels, and it has already been stated that the diversity of a gay
perspective on that topic would be welcome, then by using the platform
to discuss personal political vendettas of your own would only serve
to digress the topic matter and provide skepticism of your angelic
discussions on the part of the readership in the future.
>>Which is maltreated more, those who are gay, or those whom are of
>>an angelic understanding?
>
> Those who are gay. If you have an angelic understand and are
> heterosexual, you will still suffer far less from prejudice, than if
> you are ALSO gay.
Then it would appear then that discussion would be more apt to find
a better home in a gay discussion group? The impression that you had
given earlier was to the contrary. The impression given earlier was
that the gay community shunned your discussions of angels. But here
you are discussing gay-rights in an angelic group which is waiting
for your comments on the subject matter, rather than your comments
on gay-rights. Perhaps you believe that preaching to the choir is
unnecessary, however, the primary purpose of UseNet is to collectively
gather like minded individuals. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
It would appear that discussing gay rights belongs in those groups
which ostracize you for discussing angels and discussing angels
belongs in this group here. True?
>>But what is homelessness, actually, Zeke? That a person chooses to
>>put a box around themselves, or have a private toilet seems to be
>>one of the chief causes of the illusions of ownership.
>
> You are simply TRIVIALIZING the horrid situation of people who've had
> their lives strip down to the barest essentials, totally exposed to the
> public eye, and public whims. It is embarassing, stressful, cold and
> very hostile. Don't tell me that "homelessness" is just a state of
> mind!
>
> These are REAL people who have been DENIED pursuit of their happiness,
> in the most awful way possible.
Trivializing? Horrid? Real people? Denied?
You are under the impression that you are speaking to a person whom
has never been "homeless" himself. Freeing one's self of material
possessions is something that in this country is rather difficult
to achieve. Even the laws are bent toward forcing material possessions
upon a person. You must wear clothes, you must be taxed, even if your
body is deceased. You are born on a planet, yet you have citizenship
automatically applied to you regardless of how your political persuasions
will develop over time. You are therefore immediately associated with
a set of laws, a society, social norms, and even an education system
which is geared toward the perpetuation of these things.
>>The homeless
>>are free, Zeke, and you know there is a sort of upside-down relationship
>>between being free and being owned by possessions.
>
> Nonsense. Having access to a decent roof over your head, food,
> clothing, and dignified employment is NOT the same as owning
> possessions. One's attitudes about possessing things, had NOTHING to do
> with homelessness...except perhaps to detract from this serious issue,
> to make it look unimportant.
Food is that what one eats, it is therefore a possession, more than any
other type of possession, it is something most difficult to remove from
a person unwillingly.
Even a person who sleeps in a cot in a shelter, by common law of possession,
owns that cot for the time he sleeps in it. He owns the space in which he
lays in the cot, and he owns the body in which he has placed in the cot and
anything that is immediately attached to that body such as clothing.
All of these are possessions that you are speaking of which you are saying
are "not the same this as owning possessions".
>>Its a relative
>>thing, but most people know of other people who simply own too much.
>>Wouldn't that sort of make a sliding scale? Have you ever been
>>homeless? Have you ever been free?
>
> Well, that's a sneaky way to shed all guilt about the homeless. But is
> your conscience REALLY clear? I doubt that very much! Being homeless
> usually makes you a PRISONER of society, not a free spirit. And yes, I
> have been homeless. I AM a free spirit, who now happens to have a roof
> over my ahead, albeit a single room.
Sneaky?
Perhaps you feel guilt about being homeless because it was never shed
from you. There are several men on the planet Earth whom have never
donned the guilt of ownership. Guilt is a matter of conditioned response.
That one would apply guilt to a state of being would indicate that one
gives more credibility to the importance of society than otherwise.
Ownership is a matter of society, a matter of protectionism, and a
matter of governments, military, and so forth.
>>It would be interesting to hear about the progress, even more to bring
>>some of the people that participate here into the news group.
>
> I am rapidly developing a network of kindred souls, mostly homeless.
> This time, it's working out for me. So I no longer need to find an
> angel-group...though it sure would be nice to still create one.
They exist. :)
>>It is just another way in which you show yourself to be truly as
>>you claim to be. Gay humor has no equal counterpart that i am
>>aware of. It has a genre of wit all it's own.
>
> That is true for EVERY minority...their ethnic humor is savory and
> unique. Gay humor being no exception. What is really neat, is when you
> have a CROSSOVER of humor, such as "gay/black" or "gay/cowboy" or
> "gay/Jewish", etc. Then you REALLY get the fantastic queer twist on
> each of these ethnicities own brand of humor.
You make it sound like something that would be placed into a
cocktail.
:)
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> Maybe one of the surest ways to blow the male ego in the "homo
> machisto" species is the acceptance of passive homosexual
> behavior - in other words, I ended up believing that most machos
> do indeed fear acceptance of this component of sensuality and
> that this very fear triggers a lot of their aggressivity.
Yes...to the point where even BASHING those who are unashamedly
passive, is not enough! They must also DENY us housing, jobs, family,
etc....even outright KILL these queers.
> Well, I think that what you speak about here is your dedication
> to soul healing towards people who ended up being wounded
> (spiritually) by the difficulties in accepting their feelings & the
> (obviously non-compassionate) look of others on them, plus
> the excesses into which some went as a reaction to this lack of
> love. I really respect that and wish you good luck.
Yes...that's it in a nutshell. Thanks for the acknowledgment!
> And I strongly feel that this kind of spiritual work (basically,
> following your heart and spending time and effort in order to
> help some of the people that it seems society is much less
> interested to help than others, be it homosexuals, homeless
> people or whatever) is something your angels highly value in
> you - it speaks for you.
Yes. My focus, that is, my gift, is re. same-sex civil rights. Others
are dedicated to other equally-worthy causes. However, most civil
rights movements IGNORE the plight of non-heteros, and continue to
stomp all over us. This makes gay rights PARAMOUNT over the rights of
any other minority...for no other minority is hated so UNIVERSALLY, due
to the universality of religious dogma that ESPECIALLY scapegoats
homosexuals.
> My point was more (in a way somewhat similar to some tantric
> teachings) that Spirit teaches His/Her ways by lots of means,
> including sensuality.
Indeed. And the great cross gays bear, is in trying to live with some
sort of sensual expression, we get terrorized, bashed, tortured and/or
murdered. We are denied the very wellspring of affection which heteros
take for granted. How much more PAINFUL is life, w/o that basic
requirement for being happy. It takes GUTS to live as a homosexual, in
most countries today.
So I see all these happy, affluent heteros taking class/going to
clubs/bathhouses for all this sanctioned sensuality...and with NO
concern at all, for those of us who must go without, all our lives.
Just think: a guy whose attracted to a gal, is not likely to be bashed
for inviting her for a date. Heteros take this for granted. We queers
cannot!
Sensual exploration such as tantric yoga, is something far more likely
among heteros, than gays...for such requires a stable relationship to
partners to explore each other on a sexual level. It is very DIFFICULT
to even find a longterm partner, when one is gay...more so, certainly,
than for str8s.
> One last thing I found out that you may find interesting (I'm
> not pretending to be the only one conscious of that, it's only
> that for me, it's my spiritual path that made me come to this
> conclusion) is that it seems one of the gifts of same sex
> sensual relationships is to show the difference between
> sensuality and reproduction. Maybe it's obvious to some
> people, but it's probably worth remembering for many others.
Yes I agree, that is one important facet of the homosexual condition.
We are also more naturally shamanic and spiritual, as our "children"
are not of flesh and bones, but of ideas and art. We shape society,
while often being hated for same.
I believe another poster on some other thread (which I can't find now),
said I'd probably be pleased to hear that he, though hetero, did
perform some tantric yoga with another guy. Unless this fellow actually
rolls up his sleeves and FIGHTS for gay rights along with his gay
brothers and sisters, I'd see his Tantric experience as nothing more
than selfish lust, and "tantric yoga" really "glorified prostitution".
I'd be damned HAPPY just to have a loyal buddy by my side...forget
Tantric yoga or any other embellishment of physical gratification! I
guess when you take for granted, access to so much sensuality--by
virture of being hetero AND affluent--you either assume everyone else
has the same access, or just rub it in our gay faces.
Steel Dragon
> ( gentle snip )
>
> I'd be damned HAPPY just to have a loyal buddy by my
> side...forget Tantric yoga or any other embellishment of
> physical gratification! I guess when you take for granted,
> access to so much sensuality--by virture of being hetero AND
> affluent--you either assume everyone else has the same
> access, or just rub it in our gay faces.
Well, I must say that all the tantric teachings I got until now
were by journeying. My teacher is the Goddess Lilith. And all
that I practiced (and enjoyed) so far was also in spirit.
--
S. D.
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> Well, I must say that all the tantric teachings I got until now
> were by journeying.
I don't know what you mean by "journeying," but I'll make a potshot
guess:
Spiritual journeying via imagination and meditation.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> My teacher is the Goddess Lilith.
You can't go wrong with Lilith! :b
> And all that I practiced (and enjoyed) so far was also in spirit.
Tantric yoga usually involves physical sexual pleasure between two
people in love. You seem to convey that your idea of "Tantric" is
totally spiritual. BTW, meditating on having sex with this or that
deity can get you into a HECK of a lot of trouble! I can't BEGIN to
tell you the kind of horrid punishment I received by riding Zeus's butt
w/o his knowledge...but I'm sworn to secrecy (unless I want my family
jewels crushed beneath the hoofs of Beelzebub himself). :D
This morning, a friend ask me if I had a wet dream last night. I said:
"I don't have any wet dreams: I astral project and boink the hell out
of angels and other mythological creatures."
Tantric yoga is all about finding God--or reaching Godhead--through
physical intimacy practiced as a yoga discipline. AND both partners
must already by committed to each other in a bond of love and trust.
Any OTHER use of Tantric yoga is a corruption of its intent.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but you DID bring up writing
your own book on the subject.
Walk brightly, Steel Dragon!
Saint
What the fuck is your main problem? Make up your mind. Azure, Thracian, Shiva and
Earnest are nuts. Why don't you just fucking grow up! Someone just stuck a bunch of
bannanas up your tailpipe! chief_thrac. You are a fucking warped, hate driven little
monkey. How is the weather up your own ass? First of all, Thrace was in Greece, so get
fucked. You putz, moron, misspelling, illiterate, fucked in the head asskissing
creep! And then make up your mind. Well they can't be very good at their jobs or they
would be telling you that I am as about as far from being a bigot as you are towards
becoming heterosexual. Fuck off! You wrap up your stupid, ugly Boggle/Bible
Thumping, (as bad as any Oral Roberts watching trailer trash Baptist), in a lot of
phony baloney NonChristian New Age half-hearted magickal clap-trap and try to pass
it off as original, genuine fresh off the presses New Thought. Azure and Thracian are
NOT Gays.
Make up your minds. So how about God just does us all a favor through Chief
Thracian and tell us how to get some food and clothing and basic education to these
starving masses of crying humanity? Can't make up your infernal pea-brain today,
Zeke? Instead of crowing about himself, Thracian should be showing some leadership
capabilities. We'll keep a global watch and see how far Thracian gets. Clean up your
act. All this stuff is really of little use for discussions on either angels or even
religion, Thracian. So stuff it up your tender little wannbe arse and then sit on it and
rotate.
You know, instead of Thracian and Azure calling for the destruction of all us
heterosexuals for our so-called Crimes against Homosexuals. Who gets you out of your
pajamas and into clothes so you can go down to pick up your state check every month? Do we
need to drag up your pathetic first post here?
Pwned Bitch
Saint
Steel Dragon
> Steel Dragon wrote:
>
>> Well, I must say that all the tantric teachings I got until
>> now were by journeying.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "journeying," but I'll make a
> potshot guess:
>
> Spiritual journeying via imagination and meditation.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Well, in fact, I was referring to shamanic journeying, or access
to the other realms of the Multiverse. I won't go into a deep
discussion of it all, but the idea is not entirely different from
other techniques with more "modern" names, like for instance
astral projection / OBE (out of body experiences). In a nutshell,
I happen to be a shaman.
>> My teacher is the Goddess Lilith.
>
> You can't go wrong with Lilith! :b
True ! There are things between her and me that I won't share
(some of which She specifically asked me not to), but at least
I'll say I'm proud to consider myself as her protégé and her
pupil. She brought me many blessings, advice on sensitive
issues when I asked her... Note that I do know about her wilder
side, the way She will simply crush machos and make them
mad. I highly value her ethics.
>> And all that I practiced (and enjoyed) so far was also in
>> spirit.
>
> Tantric yoga usually involves physical sexual pleasure
> between two people in love. You seem to convey that your
> idea of "Tantric" is totally spiritual. BTW, meditating on having
> sex with this or that deity can get you into a HECK of a lot
> of trouble! I can't BEGIN to tell you the kind of horrid
> punishment I received by riding Zeus's butt w/o his
> knowledge...but I'm sworn to secrecy (unless I want my family
> jewels crushed beneath the hoofs of Beelzebub himself). :D
Er... I never pretended I was into yoga. I found out that some of
the spiritual gems I had been taught in spirit could be found in
some Earthly spiritual traditions, including tantrism. Note that
at the beginning, I was utterly ignorant about these traditions.
For instance, when Lilith began teaching me Sex Magick, I did
not in fact knew that such a thing existed. It's only later that I
found out (LOL).
About sensuality with Deities ... I feel the best advice is to ask
FIRST. There is no point in trying to grab, if only because Deities
are ... stronger than us. Plus there is so much to receive if one
opens up his/her heart and is deemed worth it by them.
> This morning, a friend ask me if I had a wet dream last
> night. I said: "I don't have any wet dreams: I astral project
> and boink the hell out of angels and other mythological
> creatures."
Good luck - as I said, as long as everybody agrees, it's fine.
> Tantric yoga is all about finding God--or reaching
> Godhead--through physical intimacy practiced as a yoga
> discipline. AND both partners must already by committed to
> each other in a bond of love and trust.
>
> Any OTHER use of Tantric yoga is a corruption of its intent.
I think any sound person can make the difference between a
true spiritual teaching and a pretext for spicing up a boring
sensual life. I just want to add that what I'm learning is not
restricted to sensuality. For instance, I began learning stuff
that makes sense on a therapeutic level - energy handling
that involves no explicit sensuality, but that makes an awful
lot of sense in terms of healing. The last of such gems I was
taught to date is a gentle technique for awakening the
Kundalini. I tried it on two persons yet. It worked really fine
and smoothly.
Being a healer is one of the obvious "tasks" that a shaman
may undertake, and being an energy healer is part of my
own path.
> I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but you DID bring
> up writing your own book on the subject.
(smile) Yes, I did. A lot could be said about spiritual bonds.
I'll do my best to also describe that in my book, as well as
other interesting topics like non-dual configurations (triads).
> Walk brightly, Steel Dragon!
I sure intend to. Be blessed !
--
S. D.
chief_t...@bluebottle.com
> What the fuck is your main problem? Make up your mind. Azure, Thracian, Shiva and
> Earnest are nuts. Why don't you just fucking grow up! Someone just stuck a bunch of
> bannanas up your tailpipe! chief_thrac. You are a fucking warped, hate driven little
> monkey. How is the weather up your own ass?
It's a cryin' shame that such vitriol can't be harnessed to solve the
energy crisis. YOU certainly have ample vitriol to power the entire
WORLD for the next nine millenia!
> First of all, Thrace was in Greece, so get fucked.
Nope. Just go find an old map. Thrace is to the north and east of
Greece.
> I am as about as far from being a bigot as you are towards
> becoming heterosexual.
Liar liar, crotch on fire.
> Fuck off! You wrap up your stupid, ugly Boggle/Bible
> Thumping, (as bad as any Oral Roberts watching trailer trash Baptist),
So says One Who Knows Not The Elbow From The Ass.
> Azure and Thracian are NOT Gays.
Oh, you possess some sort of remarkable ANTI-gaydar, now do you? I
assure you: I'm 100% homosexaul, and have been all my life...I'm a
"Kinsey 6" a.k.a. a "thoroughbred". Yes, I come from GOOD stock...good
GAY stock. I know you don't wanna hear this, as it will give you
nightmares.
> Make up your minds. So how about God just does us all a favor through Chief
> Thracian and tell us how to get some food and clothing and basic education to these
> starving masses of crying humanity? Can't make up your infernal pea-brain today,
> Zeke? Instead of crowing about himself, Thracian should be showing some leadership
> capabilities. We'll keep a global watch and see how far Thracian gets.
I've already come up with a plan on EXACTLY how to end starvation and
homelessness: just focus on removing homophobia from the planet, and
everything else that's "wrong"
or "bad" (such as racism, rape and child abuse), will right itself.
For details of my plan, read this:
"Security Matters & Anti-Matters" (or "The Mighty-Mouse Virus")
http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm
> Clean up your act.
It's not an act. Nor am I unclean: I'm 100% KosherKweer.
> All this stuff is really of little use for discussions on either angels or even
> religion,
I see. And who are you, the moderator? Just because you DISLIKE another
poster's opinion does NOT define the hated article as inappropriate to
the topic. What you REALLY mean is: "No faggots are welcome here, in
this angel discussion." But in order to NOT come off as the homophobic
twit you are, you find OTHER reasons to shut me out.
Don't you realize that I've been treated this way all my life, just for
being upfront gay? Do you think I haven't mastered by now, victory over
such common and hateful attacks? What makes you think you can hold any
power against me, that I haven't already subdued beneath my heel? Do
you have any idea how abhorrently COMMON you are?
> Thracian. So stuff it up your tender little wannbe arse and then sit on it and
> rotate.
So you're a closet queer. They ALWAYS say that sort of stuff...as if
that will AFFIRM to the public, your holy "straight-ness". When in fact
it EXPOSES you to the audience as QUEER (that is: GAY, GAY, GAY)...a
pathetic queer whose closet is open to all (though YOU still think
you're safely hidden).
It is ALWAYS a closet queer who makes anal insults...because the fact
is, you're FANTASIZING gay sex, and you can't stop it from flowing from
your keyboard, though you think you've hidden your queerness quite
well, thank you.
> You know, instead of Thracian and Azure calling for the destruction of all us
> heterosexuals for our so-called Crimes against Homosexuals.
I never called for destruction. YOU show ME where I have done
such...that was NOT simply either a satirical piece, or to egg on a
homophobe that I spotted in gay-friendly sheep's clothing.
As for "crimes against homosexuals", I'd say the vast majority of
heteros have been terrorizing, bashing, and murdering us only because
we're not just like you (with our glorious boners up your daughter's
twot). The crimes are MOST REAL, and they are a MAJORITY-approved
behavior.
In truth, the gay issue is not a MINORITY issue...since MOST who claim
to be heterosexual, are actually bisexual. And since bisexuals make up
approx. 80% of the world's populations...then persecuting sexual
minorities is INDEED a MAJORITY issue. It is only because most
bisexuals pass as straight, that homophobes claim queers are too small
in numbers to matter much, if at all.
> Who gets you out of your pajamas and into clothes so you can go down to
> pick up your state check every month?
1) I don't wear pajamas.
2) I don't pick up ANY state check, EVER. I don't even have to get out
of bed. I get direct deposit. (But it still ain't state money; it's
federal, a.k.a. Social Security.)
> Do we need to drag up your pathetic first post here?
Sure, The free advertising will be MOST appreciated.
> Saint
Well, THAT word can no longer be used to descibe anyone GOOD, any more,
now that you claim it for yourself!
I'd tell you to go back under the rock you crawled out from, but I just
found out that you did NOT crawl: the rock SPIT you out instead!
--
Vote for Zeke in two-double-oh-eight,
Or right-wing goons will seal your fate!
www.gay-bible.org/index.html#prez
SaintDavid1
of context, some are years old, and they are meant to do to you just what
the troll did, to get you all fired up.
--
David St. Albans
<chief_t...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:1137668103.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
decoder2
Art
SaintDavid1
> It's a cryin' shame that such vitriol can't be harnessed to solve the
> energy crisis.
We have seen your vitriol as well. Harness it first. Then try to harness the
vitriol of others.
>YOU certainly have ample vitriol to power the entire
> WORLD for the next nine millenia!
And so do you. You have been having knock down drag out fights with group
members here for years. What is good for the goose is good for the gander,
no?
>> First of all, Thrace was in Greece, so get fucked.
>
> Nope. Just go find an old map. Thrace is to the north and east of
> Greece.
Thrace was a part of Greece. It was one of the Greek States after
Alexander's father unified them. But the Thracians were basically a Greek
speaking people.
>> I am as about as far from being a bigot as you are towards
>> becoming heterosexual.
>
> Liar liar, crotch on fire.
Wrong. I am not a bigot. And my crotch is not on fire.
>> Fuck off! You wrap up your stupid, ugly Boggle/Bible
>> Thumping, (as bad as any Oral Roberts watching trailer trash Baptist),
This was not directed at you. It was cut and pasted out of context.
>> Azure and Thracian are NOT Gays.
This was also cut out of context. Unfortunately the troll doing this will
never give the entire posting threads or even the place he found them.
> Oh, you possess some sort of remarkable ANTI-gaydar, now do you?
No. I do not. I do not hate Gays or Lesbians or Transexuals, transgendered
folks or people who are without any sexual or gender designations at all. I
hate no group of people. I am therefore not "bigoted." I cannot even recall
now what I was arguing with you about at the time. But I believe I was
pretty mad. You make people very angry at you. Did you know that? And it
can't be because you are "Gay." because I cannot see or feel your "gayness"
in any post you make. I see words. And they are words which make me mad.
> I
> assure you: I'm 100% homosexual, and have been all my life...I'm a
> "Kinsey 6" a.k.a. a "thoroughbred". Yes, I come from GOOD stock...good
> GAY stock.
Good Gay stock? LOL! Come from a long line of Gay ancestors do you? How does
that work exactly? Were they all in the closet? Then how'd you know they
were Gay?
>I know you don't wanna hear this, as it will give you
> nightmares.
Believe me, nothing anyone on this NG says gives me nightmares; headaches
and eye-strain, yes. But what is giving me fits right now is the troll who
posted this to you is using my Sig Name in order to confuse you, after we
had already made up and played nice. I am sure you are a homosexual. What
does that matter?
> I've already come up with a plan on EXACTLY how to end starvation and
> homelessness: just focus on removing homophobia from the planet, and
> everything else that's "wrong"
> or "bad" (such as racism, rape and child abuse), will right itself.
> For details of my plan, read this:
>
> "Security Matters & Anti-Matters" (or "The Mighty-Mouse Virus")
> http://www.gay-bible.org/write/3_security.htm
Well words are not leadership, Zeke. I think, from many of the things you
post you tend to be vitriolic, anti-hetero oriented and seem to blame all
the world's problems on heteros. As if no Gay had ever done a bad thing,
raped a child, killed anyone, etc. etc. Or that they can be forgiven for
their crimes because they were forced to do it by heteros.
However I also said I would WATCH you as you came along as a leader. So far
I haven't seen you leading marches on the news. I have just seen your posts.
I haven't read your "controversial new book." Just read your posts. Posting
is worthless. No one is going to go out and change the world because of
something they saw on the internet. It is too full of kooks.
> It's not an act. Nor am I unclean: I'm 100% KosherKweer.
fine.
>> All this stuff is really of little use for discussions on either angels
>> or even
>> religion,
>
> I see. And who are you, the moderator?
Because I point out the obvious this does not make me the official
moderator. Your long rants against heteros and for gays and how you are
getting threatened and sued and harassed is news, but not really useful for
the angel NG. Your whole header: All Angels Are Gay...is simply offensive.
Not because an angel might be Gay, but because you are assuming that all of
them are and that heterosexuality has no place in this world or the next.
Well, without it, you would not be here to rant. So give your hetero
ancestors and the hetero angels they have become, some credit.
They, according to you, didn't screw up things completely by bearing you
into this world.
>Just because you DISLIKE another
> poster's opinion does NOT define the hated article as inappropriate to
> the topic.
Dislike has nothing to do with it. You are often off topic for this NG. I
was pointing that out.
>What you REALLY mean is: "No faggots are welcome here, in
> this angel discussion."
Only if you are talking about angel faggots, faggot angels, homosexual
angels versus hetero angels or how the church dismisses homosexuals in
spirituality, etc. But if you are going to sit here and accuse me of being a
bigot, you are being borderline hateful yourself. I have NEVER dismissed
homosexuals from either my life or this group...as if I could. So you are
putting "meaning" where there was none intended. Then judging me as a
homophobe. You do this ALL THE TIME, Thracian. Which is why I stopped
talking to you.
> But in order to NOT come off as the homophobic
> twit you are, you find OTHER reasons to shut me out.
That is simply not true and unfortunately because you are acting this way,
we need to say goodbye.
> Don't you realize that I've been treated this way all my life, just for
> being upfront gay? Do you think I haven't mastered by now, victory over
> such common and hateful attacks? What makes you think you can hold any
> power against me, that I haven't already subdued beneath my heel? Do
> you have any idea how abhorrently COMMON you are?
Don't presuppose that all people who tell you that you are off topic on an
NG are trying to bash you for being Gay. My comments have nothing to do with
your sexual preferences. Period.
>> Thracian. So stuff it up your tender little wannbe arse and then sit on
>> it and
>> rotate.
>
> So you're a closet queer.
And what if I was? Would you toss me off the group for being a homo? I
decided when I was 13 that I would never get involved with men. Sex with men
did not bother me. I was not afraid of it or hateful of it. It was the
Sixties and i was pretty enlightened, even at that age. I knew I could do as
I pleased with my sexuality. Mainly I disliked men sexually because they're
assholes. Including me half the time! But they show such little tenderness,
love and nurturing. Often they use sex as a tool or a weapon to gain power
over others. I did not want to be like that and I never wanted to be treated
like men treat women. So I decided to become a tender, caring and nurturing
heterosexual man. Maybe there is some loving and tender nurturing in the Gay
community. But I have lived in Provincetown where the Gays congregate every
summer...and their "Gaydar" always made them avoid me as a rank
heterosexual. In otherwords I have NEVER had a gay man come on to me. And
I've known hundreds. Been at their parties, house warmings and festivals.
Not once has one tried to pick up on me. Not ever. But, so you don't get the
idea that I am ugly or weird, women ALWAYS pick up on me. And I on them. So
I figure I must be a heterosexual. However if I was to depend on YOUR
ATTITUDE to change me from a closet queer to an outed one, well, you just
lost that round as well. So at 51, married and still interested in women, I
would have to guess I am not a closet queer. Too bad. Huh? LOL!
>They ALWAYS say that sort of stuff...
That sounds like a broad brush generalization to me.
<snippety snip!>
Yeah, well I can see from the rest of this piece of yours that you go from
accusing me of bigotry to exposing your own. yeah, believe it or not, Gay
men can Hate and be Bigoted towards heterosexuals as a group. Since you keep
referring to us as "They."
Whatever. Back to the Block Sender List you go...
--
David St. Albans
decoder2
you by the way he has anwsered your statements. He's weird and a mixed
up person and has a liking for young boys. A really nut case.
Hope this helps
Art