What risks would YOU take?
Steve O
Tube train which he had fallen out of while smoking a cigarette.
The 52-year-old man is believed to have forced open the emergency exit
doors between carriages on a late-night Metropolitan Line Tube train
between Chorleywood, Herts, and Chesham, Bucks.
Police said that he fell through a gap and, after tumbling onto the
track, he was dragged along at 50mph, gruesomely severing his head from
his body.
A rail worker who was on the Tube train at the time of the death, said
on an online forum: 'A passenger who was smoking between the carriages
on the train slipped and fell onto the tracks while the train was moving
at 50mph.
'He was subsequently dragged to Chalfont and Latimer and decapitated.
--
Could someone explain to me the difference between risking your life by
smoking between the emergency exits of a moving tube train and risking
your life by smoking and subsequently contracting a fatal smoking disease?
The BIG N
> A rail passenger was decapitated after being dragged along underneath a
> Tube train which he had fallen out of while smoking a cigarette.
> The 52-year-old man is believed to have forced open the emergency exit
> doors between carriages on a late-night Metropolitan Line Tube train
> between Chorleywood, Herts, and Chesham, Bucks.
> Police said that he fell through a gap and, after tumbling onto the
> track, he was dragged along at 50mph, gruesomely severing his head from
> his body.
>
> A rail worker who was on the Tube train at the time of the death, said
> on an online forum: 'A passenger who was smoking between the carriages
> on the train slipped and fell onto the tracks while the train was moving
> at 50mph.
> 'He was subsequently dragged to Chalfont and Latimer and decapitated.
>
>
> --
>
> Could someone explain to me the difference between risking your life by
> smoking between the emergency exits of a moving tube train and risking
> your life by smoking and subsequently contracting a fatal smoking disease?
What does carelessness have to do with smoking you illogical, mindless
gasbag?
They get dumber and more desperate with each new troll-dropping. LOL!!
TBN
The BIG N
Gasbag, O Steve <no one's...@home> wrote:
> --
>
> Could someone explain to me the difference between risking your life by
> smoking between the emergency exits of a moving tube train and risking
> your life by smoking and subsequently contracting a fatal smoking disease?
Can someone please explain this mindless gasbag's reasoning behind
this stupid question?
TBN
Steve O
We're not talking careless, here, knobhead, we're talking complete and
utter stupidity.
It's fairly clear that you don't know the difference, isn't it?
>
Steve O
Wouldn't be much point- you're far too stupid to grasp it.
The BIG N
Call it whatever you need to call it to make it easier to reconcile in
your own limited and irrational mind, Gasbag.
Either way it's hardly worth getting all huffy over, right?
Relax, O Steve, you're as tense as your sister Panty Nannys
TBN
The BIG N
Tsk,tsk, such anger from one who likes to project the image of being a
such a "rational" conversationalist.
Soon or later you all show your weak side, right Gasbag?
TBN
Steve O
How the hell did this tedious blowhard get out of my killfile???
Back in you go!
--
Steve O
a.a.2240 BAAWA
Exempt from Purgatory by Papal Indulgence
scottbtdmb
Why would an anti-smoker put a smoker on their killfile in a smoker's
forum? That's like saying that I am from Baltimore so I am going to
go into a Pittsburgh Steelers' group and totally killfile all the
Steelers fans. Sorry to break it to you Steve-O and NumbNormGee, but
we really don't care about what you have to say. I will stick with my
pipes and cigars in moderation and continue to laugh at your pathetic
attempt to make me see my lifestyle differently. Call it denial, but
I am sure having a bunch of fun! Haven't taken any form of medicine
in over ten years, jog 2-3 miles a day, and have played harmonica
professionally without ever having any strain on my lungs from pipes
or cigars. What have you to speak for? A whole bunch of Internet
research on addiction and anti-smoking that isn't helping anyone. Get
out in the real world and try to help people if you care that much,
instead of cowering behind a computer trying to convince 3 people that
you're Dr. Freud! Sheesh, these trolls need to get a life!
Steve O
Because he is loud mouthed and has never actually discussed smoking at all?
>That's like saying that I am from Baltimore so I am going to
> go into a Pittsburgh Steelers' group and totally killfile all the
> Steelers fans. Sorry to break it to you Steve-O and NumbNormGee, but
> we really don't care about what you have to say. I will stick with my
> pipes and cigars in moderation and continue to laugh at your pathetic
> attempt to make me see my lifestyle differently.
Why do smokers always feel the need to add "in moderation"? every time
they refer to their smoking?
Perhaps they understand that they are controlled by smoking, and always
need to be vigilant to ensure that it doesn't start to rule their life.
What I mean is, I know people who absolutely love playing golf,but I
never hear them say""I love playing golf- in moderation"
But you have hit the nail on the head, I *am* trying to make you see
your lifestyle differently- pathetic or not.
It's time to remove the rose tinted spectacles you're wearing when it
comes to smoking and understand it for what it actually is, rather than
the pleasant and harmless activity you appear to think it is
> Call it denial, but
> I am sure having a bunch of fun!
Maybe you are, but most of the rational world is completely puzzled as
to how you can believe that inhaling toxic smoke can be "fun".
Fortunately, there is a reason why you think that way and you have
already correctly identified that it is basically down to how you see
your lifestyle.
And yes, we do call it denial.
It is exactly the same kind of denial I have heard from hard drug users
no matter how chaotic their lifestyle had become.
> Haven't taken any form of medicine
> in over ten years, jog 2-3 miles a day, and have played harmonica
> professionally without ever having any strain on my lungs from pipes
> or cigars. What have you to speak for? A whole bunch of Internet
> research on addiction and anti-smoking that isn't helping anyone. Get
> out in the real world and try to help people if you care that much,
> instead of cowering behind a computer trying to convince 3 people that
> you're Dr. Freud! Sheesh, these trolls need to get a life!
Glad to hear that you are looking after yourself- with a bit of luck,
your smoking might not catch up with you.
Then again, it might.
If you think that risk is worth it, then that's fine, but I really do
suggest that you examine the benefits of that risk carefully- you may be
surprised at what you find.
The BIG N
I'll be back out because you'll let me back out. You can't help
yourself.
BTW, ever notice how it's the defenseless cowards who always run? LOL!
TBN - like shootin' fish in a barrel
The BIG N
Long winded, say nothing, gratuitous gasbag.
TBN
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Number one, I don't inhale my pipes and cigars. Number two, I don't
really understand what is going to catch up with me from enjoying a
few pipes and cigars a week. Number three, you have never listed your
credentials to support your expertise on these claims and opinions you
speak of. I am curious how qualified you are to present such
opinions. Like I said before, surely if you really knew what you were
talking about, you would be out in the real world trying to help
people and spread your message about addiction. My guess is that you
have some sort of fantasy that you are an expert and your audience of
three people on here (two now that TBN is killfiled) allows you live
out your fantasy. Think about it Steve-o, you are preaching to two
people on an Internet smoker's forum. One person, Robert, obviously
isn't going to pay any attention to you when he has already put up
with Bruce Watson for 17 years and hasn't changed. The other person,
myself, doesn't even smoke cigarettes and am confident enough with my
balanced lifestyle to know that a few pipes and cigars aren't going to
harm me. Thanks for your concern though. I just think that there is
a whole lot more you could do in the real world if you are truly the
expert your claim to be.
The BIG N
Killfile, Shmillfile. The BIG N is here to discredit those dimwits
whether they read it or not. TBN's reaches for an audience beyond
those piddly, whining, and neurotic cowards. As long as they post, TBN
will respond. Not for their concern, but for TBN's entertainment.
Be aware, my smoking pals, TBN always has your back.
When someone killfiles The BIG N, they've merely thrown in the towel.
They can't handle the irreverance and and dismissal as it relates to
their stupidity.
Babs, NumbGuy, Gasbag, Fat Nits, Lumpy Shane; They're all the same
person, they just don't know it. Exasperated weaklings.
TBN - doesn't killfile but holds his ground
Steve O
> On Jul 5, 3:33 am, Steve O<nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2011 04:06, scottbtdmb wrote:
>
> Number one, I don't inhale my pipes and cigars.
I'm not sure why pipe smokers always make this claim.
Does the smoke get into your mouth by osmosis?
Cigar and pipe smokers inhale until the smoke "catches".
Granted, they do not inhale as deeply as a cigarette smoker (although
I've heard of some that do)
The reason they don't do this is because pipe and cigar smoke is
particularly acrid and it is difficult to inhale it completely without
having a coughing fit and ripping your lungs to shreds.
> Number two, I don't
> really understand what is going to catch up with me from enjoying a
> few pipes and cigars a week.
All smoking eventually takes its toll one way or the other.
You might be lucky, or you might not.
In the meantime, you might like to try and think about why you find it
impossible to relax without a pipe or cigar, then you could reassess
what exactly it is you are enjoying.
It isn't food- it isn't sustenance or refreshment, so what do you
actually think it is?
What need are you satisfying by inhaling carcinogenic and addictive smoke.
The need to smoke?
Just step back for a moment and think about that carefully.
> Number three, you have never listed your
> credentials to support your expertise on these claims and opinions you
> speak of.
Many years as a smoker - and just as many years thinking about why I was
addicted to it.
Do I need any other qualifications?
I am curious how qualified you are to present such
> opinions.
I am more than qualified to express these opinions.
They aren't exactly rocket science- just simple, plain logic which
anyone can understand.
They are opinions which come from experience and observation.
You can't get any more valuable experience than that.
>Like I said before, surely if you really knew what you were
> talking about, you would be out in the real world trying to help
> people and spread your message about addiction.
I don't bother my friends, colleagues or relatives with this kind of
thing. (unless they seek me out and ask me)
This is a hobby I strictly reserve for usenet.
I have no particular interest in "saving " anyone from smoking.
But over the years, posting here has helped to gain a better
understanding about nicotine addiction.
My guess is that you
> have some sort of fantasy that you are an expert and your audience of
> three people on here (two now that TBN is killfiled) allows you live
> out your fantasy.
I'm no expert.
I do know a hell of a lot about the process of nicotine addiction and
the nature of the smoking trap- more so than the average smoker or non
smoker, but I would not describe myself as an expert in any way.
> Think about it Steve-o, you are preaching to two
> people on an Internet smoker's forum.
If you think there are only two people in this forum, then you know less
about this forum than you think.
> One person, Robert, obviously
> isn't going to pay any attention to you when he has already put up
> with Bruce Watson for 17 years and hasn't changed.
What difference would it make to me if he paid any attention or not?
> The other person,
> myself, doesn't even smoke cigarettes and am confident enough with my
> balanced lifestyle to know that a few pipes and cigars aren't going to
> harm me.
If you choose to believe that, then that's fine.
However, reality is a little different.
Ingesting a poisonous substance (other than medication) is always going
to cause some type of harm, one way or the other.
Thanks for your concern though. I just think that there is
> a whole lot more you could do in the real world if you are truly the
> expert your claim to be.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm concerned about you, or
that I claim to be an expert.
-
The BIG N
> Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm concerned about you, or
> that I claim to be an expert.
>
No one cares either way, O-Gasbag
scottbtdmb
Ok Steve-O, number one I agree with you about the inhalation part.
What I meant to say is that I don't inhale smoke and hold it in my
lungs like a cigarette or pot smoker would do. Secondly, as far as
enjoyment and relaxation goes, pipe and cigar smoking is just one
aspect of my life that I gain relaxation and enjoyment from. I enjoy
jogging, tennis, reading, camping, playing gin rummy, and playing
harmonica. I derive enjoyment from all of these things. You will
immediately point out that the other things I listed are not harmful
like smoking. To this I will say that too much of anything isn't
good. Even something like exercise can be done in excess to the point
of harm. There have been world class athletes who have died due to
ischemia-reperfusion injury from over exertion, and many scientists
now acknowledge free radical damage from over exercising to be
harmful. Same thing goes for vegetarians that don't get enough B-12
or other nutrients like carnitine. Furthermore, even for non-smokers,
air pollution is nearly as hazardous. I have read documentation from
the 1950's done in Great Britain that have shown higher incidences of
lung and heart problems in non-smokers living in industrial cities
than pipe/cigar smokers living in rural areas. Face it Steve, life is
a gamble no matter how you look at it. I enjoy pipe and cigar smoking
but they don't define me as a person. They are one small aspect of my
life that I derive enjoyment from. Despite your experience as a pipe
smoker and your claims, I have never smoked a good blend of English/
Virginian tobaccos that have burned hot or acrid. I get a vast
variety of flavors and subtle nuances that I find to be very complex
and thought provoking. Many other cigar and pipe smokers on
tobaccoreviews seem to agree with me and I am surprised you had such
bad luck with Ashton's Artisan Blend. However, you chose to stop and
I respect that because that is your personal decision. Apparently,
you weighed the pros and cons and decided that it wasn't for you and
that is fine. However, I have weighed the pros and cons and I feel
that I lead a healthy enough lifestyle that smoking a few pipes and
cigars will probably not have any long-term harmful effects. Then
again, they might, but that is life. Toxic air pollution from
Baltimore might kill me or harmful chemicals put into the food supply
might get me. Life is about balance in my opinion and more
importantly life is about individual choice. Thanks again for your
comments though!
The BIG N
It won't end here scott. O-Gasbag Steve is a last word freak,
neurotic, who will drone on until the cows come home.
TBN
scottbtdmb
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah you're exactly right. I said all I had to say to him for now. I
don't like to have to feel the need to justify what I enjoy in life,
but sometimes the idiots on here really do need to be put in their
place. For now, I am just going to ignore him and load up a bowl of
Smoker's Haven Our Best Blend in a Peterson Mark Twain. Can't wait to
taste that hot, putrid, acrid smoke, LOL!
-Scott
Steve O
> On Jul 5, 1:37 pm, Steve O<nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>> On 05/07/2011 15:32, scottbtdmb wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 5, 3:33 am, Steve O<nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>>> On 05/07/2011 04:06, scottbtdmb wrote:
>>
>
> Ok Steve-O, number one I agree with you about the inhalation part.
> What I meant to say is that I don't inhale smoke and hold it in my
> lungs like a cigarette or pot smoker would do.
Of course not.
That is extremely difficult to do with a pipe or cigar.
But not with a cigarette.
Why else do you think that cigarettes are far more popular than pipes or
cigars?
Easy answer- it gets nicotine into the system much quicker and much
easier than anything else.
(Once you have acclimatised yourself to it, of course)
You might consider that what you are doing is simply a hobby or relaxing
past-time, but the truth is that its a really piss poor way of getting
nicotine.
No wonder so many pipe and cigar smokers supplement their nictine intake
with cigarettes.
BTW, do you use cigarettes at all?
Secondly, as far as
> enjoyment and relaxation goes, pipe and cigar smoking is just one
> aspect of my life that I gain relaxation and enjoyment from.
I really have to question that.
I have no doubt that pipe smokers relax by the simple method of sitting
down, preparing a pipe, inhaling the deep, aromatic smell of fresh
tobacco before the anticipation of lighting up.
( please note- I accept that unburnt pipe tobacco is aromatic and
pleasant smelling, as opposed to burning pipe tobacco, which isn't)
What I am questioning us the fact that the average smoker is UNABLE to
relax without tobacco, or more precisely, nicotine.
You have simply been duped into thinking that you need to inhale
offensively smelling burnt tobacco in order to relax.
Look at it this way-we all do different things to relax.
The average non smoker can relax completely without needing to resort to
any addictive substance, but the smoker is always dependent upon tobacco
to relax in fact, they are completely unable to relax without it.
The main point is this- smokers need to seek permission from tobacco
before they can ever relax.
But smokers don't see it that way-see tobacco, as their friend, their
crutch.
Unfortunately, your friend is trying to kill you.
It's all part of the deception.
I enjoy
> jogging, tennis, reading, camping, playing gin rummy, and playing
> harmonica.
All of which have benefits, no doubt.
I play blues harp, myself, and I know what the benefits of that are.
But exactly what are the benefits of smoking?
By that, what I mean is, what does a smoker get from tobacco that a non
smoker doesn't have?
Bear in mind, it is my contention that all a smoker is trying to do by
smoking is to return to the peace of mind and contentment they enjoyed
BEFORE they became a smoker.
Something that a non- smoker has all of the time, untroubled by the
pressing need to replace nicotine.
> I derive enjoyment from all of these things. You will
> immediately point out that the other things I listed are not harmful
> like smoking.
Of course,like I said, they have benefits.
But what are the benefits of smoking- by that, I mean, what benefit does
a smoker get from tobacco that a non smoker is missing out on?
Let me put that another way...
Do you feel that you are missing out on the beneficial and pleasant
effects of heroin use?
If not, why not?
There are plenty of people who will tell you how wonderful heroin use feels.
So, without trying to sound flippant, why aren't you on heroin?
Is it because the death rate from heroin use is higher than the death
rate from tobacco use?
I have news for you, my friend, it isn't.
> To this I will say that too much of anything isn't
> good.
Agreed.
Even water is toxic in certain doses.
>
Even something like exercise can be done in excess to the point
> of harm.
Agreed.
But tobacco use isn't exercise, so there's not much point in comparing
the two.
(Plus, as opposed to tobacco, exercise has its benefits)
> There have been world class athletes who have died due to
> ischemia-reperfusion injury from over exertion, and many scientists
> now acknowledge free radical damage from over exercising to be
> harmful. Same thing goes for vegetarians that don't get enough B-12
> or other nutrients like carnitine. Furthermore, even for non-smokers,
> air pollution is nearly as hazardous. I have read documentation from
> the 1950's done in Great Britain that have shown higher incidences of
> lung and heart problems in non-smokers living in industrial cities
> than pipe/cigar smokers living in rural areas.
That's very interesting, but what does that have to do with inhaling a
carcinogenic substance for no other reason than trying to make the
impulse to smoke a carcinogenic substance go away??
> Face it Steve, life is
> a gamble no matter how you look at it.
Of course, I am not risk averse- in fact- I believe that risk is
essential for survival.
But I'm talking about NECESSARY risk.
What is necessary about the risk of smoking?
So you can relax?
I can assure you that there are millions of people who are perfectly
capable of relaxing without any tobacco at all, and who don't need to
risk lung cancer in order to relax.
Unfortunately, there are also millions of people who mistakenly believe
that they are unable to relax without tobacco at all.
That's the saddest thing about it all, really.
>I enjoy pipe and cigar smoking
> but they don't define me as a person. They are one small aspect of my
> life that I derive enjoyment from. Despite your experience as a pipe
> smoker and your claims, I have never smoked a good blend of English/
> Virginian tobaccos that have burned hot or acrid.
Like I said, good pipe tobacco is pleasant, aromatic and compelling.
Set fire to it, and it is about as pleasant as burning rubber.
Animals avoid it, with good reason.
> I get a vast
> variety of flavors and subtle nuances that I find to be very complex
> and thought provoking.
Oh bollocks- get a grip of yourself.
How on earth could you rationally claim that burning tobacco leaves can
in any way be thought provoking?
Talk about The Emperor's New Clothes...
... Look, don't get away with yourself- it's just burning foliage, not
dissimilar to the smell of burning leaves in your garden in the Autumn.
The only reason that you think otherwise is because you have spent years
rationalizing this ridiculous practice, and training yourself to endure it.
Try and see it for what it actually is, and how others see it - not
what your imagination thinks it to be.
What "variety of flavours " are you talking about, exactly?
Whatever they are, don't you think you'd be better off getting those
flavours from their original source, rather than obtaining them second
hand through carcinogenic smoke?
Sorry to be so blunt here, but sometimes people really do need a slap in
the face to make them realize what they are actually saying.
>Many other cigar and pipe smokers on
> tobaccoreviews seem to agree with me and I am surprised you had such
> bad luck with Ashton's Artisan Blend.
I had trouble with Ashton's Artisan Blend because basically, when its
burning, it fucking stinks, and the smoke from it is acrid and unpleasant
Smells lovely and fresh in the pack, but like anything else, set fire to
it, and it's a different story.
I mean, I love the taste of a decent grilled lobster, but burn it to a
charcoal and its horrible, just like anything else you set fire to
rather than cook.
But I did, more fool me, tolerate the smell of burning Ashton's for
quite a long time.
The point is- I was addicted to nicotine at the time, and the only way
to get it into my system quickly was to inhale burning tobacco smoke.
It took me along time to get used to that, but eventually, I got there,
despite the unpleasant taste.
In fact, I even grew to LOVE the horrible taste- but that has more to do
with Pavlov than the actual taste itself.
> However, you chose to stop and
> I respect that because that is your personal decision. Apparently,
> you weighed the pros and cons and decided that it wasn't for you and
> that is fine.
You don't understand- I finally realised that there were NO pros at all.
Just the cons.
The fact that I had been duped for so many years pissed me off immensely.
However, I have weighed the pros and cons and I feel
> that I lead a healthy enough lifestyle that smoking a few pipes and
> cigars will probably not have any long-term harmful effects.
Look - it really isn't about the harmful effects at all.
Most smokers don't even notice the harmful effects- they get used to
Them, and put them down to old age or something else.
the damage of tobacco smoke is so slow an insidious that most people
never notice them until it is too late- that is why the drug kills so
many people.
To me, it's about the deception- the way in which a simple substance
like tobacco can actually make a rational person believe that they are
somehow unable to cope with life or difficult situations without their
"friend " or "crutch"- tobacco.i.e-,the friend that is slowly killing
them and decimating their self- respect and independence.
>Then
> again, they might, but that is life.
Life has enough ways of killing us, without voluntarily adding to the
arsenal.
> Toxic air pollution from
> Baltimore might kill me or harmful chemicals put into the food supply
> might get me.
Diversionary tactics- I've heard them a million times before from
smokers who are unwilling to accept the fact that long- term smoking is
extremely harmful.
It's like saying that being run over by a car is not as bad as being run
over by a truck- it just doesn't make sense as a valid argument
>Life is about balance in my opinion and more
> importantly life is about individual choice. Thanks again for your
> comments though!
If only smoking was about choice,rather than compulsion.
Steve O
You haven't out me in my place yet, so I'm not sure why you are making
that claim.
You can take this conversation to its conclusion, or leave it- it's up
to you
BTW, whenever you have any conflict, do you always resort to the pipe?
I used to do that, with pipes, cigars and all different kinds of
nicotine,until I eventually realised that it didn't actually help.
In fact, I realised that the truth was that nicotine was actually
destroying my confidence and self- dependence,rather than the confidence
boost I perceived it to be.
Eventually, one day, you might realise that too.
Here's a clue- it doesn't boost confidence and it doesn't help you to
relax- in fact , it does the opposite- it's a stimulant, and all it can
ever do is increase your heart rate and blood pressure.
The reason why you think it does the opposite is a whole other story in
itself!