NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion
ethercat
reformatted only slighly to improve legibility.
From: ethercat <ethe...@ethercat.com>
To: fsm...@na.org
Subject: NA and the use of the term NarcAnon
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:20:52 -0400
Hello,
I am not seeking to draw your organization into an outside or
public controversy, or to have you make a statement on other groups,
but I feel that, for the sake of your good name, a statement should
be made to the effect that the term "NarcAnon" or "Narcanon" should
not be used to refer to NA. I am hoping that you will make this
statement or clarification, preferrably on your website, so that this
confusion among the general public can be cleared up.
My interest is in seeing that people looking for help with drug
addiction problems find your helpful organization, Narcotics
Anonymous, rather than the harmful and costly scientology
organization, NarCONon. I am sure that your interests are similar to
mine, in that you want the people looking for Narcotics Anonymous to
find it.
Thank you,
Ann Lowe
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
To: "'ethe...@ethercat.com'"
<ethe...@ethercat.com>
Subject: FW: FW: NA and the use of the term NarcAnon
Date sent: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:40:21 -0700
Hi Ann,
Thanks for your interest in clarification regarding the name of our
fellowship, and your concern for addicts. We appreciate your thoughts
and your communication.
Our understanding is that "Narcanon" is a registered trademark of
another organization and has been for many years. Although it is
similar to the name of our fellowship, we do not plan on placing
anything about the name "Narcanon" on our website. To do so, we
would be giving information and opinion about an outside organization
and our guiding principles caution against this.
Our belief and commitment is to do the very best job we can at making
help available to addicts who still suffer and we will continue to do
that.
We do get calls sometimes from people who inquire about the two names,
and we answer them with an explanation. However, issuing clarification
about the name of another organization is not part of our mission.
I hope this answers your question. Please accept our very best wishes.
In fellowship,
Steve Sigman
WSO Fellowship Services
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ethercat <ethe...@ethercat.com>
To: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
Subject: Re: FW: FW: NA and the use of the term NarcAnon
Date sent: Wed, 16 May 2001 17:58:09 -0400
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your reply. Would be possible for you to place a
statement saying this:
"Narcotics Anonymous is known only as NA or Narcotics Anonymous."
That is, not mentioning any other groups or names of other groups,
just making it clear that these are the only two methods of referring
to your organization.
Thanks,
Ann
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
To: "'ethercat'" <ethe...@ethercat.com>
Subject: RE: FW: FW: NA and the use of the term NarcAnon
Date sent: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:02:12 -0700
That's a possibility, Ann, but I think this idea has come up before.
You see, in other countries, we are known by the English name and
sometimes by a translated name.
I'll keep your suggestion in mind for the next conversation we have
about this kind of thing.
Thanks again.
Hugs to you,
Steve
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<end of emails>
|\__/,| (\
_.|o o |_ ) )
---| ethercat |-------(((---(((----------(ascii art by Mike Rosulek)
Say Cheeeez
>Date: 5/17/01 12:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id:
><80v7gtk83dma5mm1u...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force>
>
>On Thu, 17 May 2001 00:16:04 GMT.
>In Message-ID: <bk56gton3qugms26a...@4ax.com>
>From: ethercat <ethe...@arscc-atl.com>.
>Organization: www.arscc-atl.com.
>Wrote on the subject: NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion:
>
>What other organization have registered "Narcanon"? I think we have
>confusion again.
>
>Sigh....
>
>I fucking give up, when even NA's rep is confused and can't see the
>difference between NarcANON and NarCONon
>
>
>>Although it is
>>similar to the name of our fellowship, we do not plan on placing
>>anything about the name "Narcanon" on our website. To do so, we
>>would be giving information and opinion about an outside organization
>>and our guiding principles caution against this.
>
>
>Again, confusion I believe. Just what the scum sucking scientology shit
>cult wants when using the name "NarCONon. (NOTE for fucks sake the
>difference between NarcANON and NarCONon.
>
>This is getting fucking stupid.
>
>
>
I have also been in touch with Steve Sigman from NA WSO and his reference to
NarcAnon rather than Narconon was simply a spelling mistake. He never heard of
NarcAnon until today.
Rich
ethercat
From: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
To: "'ethe...@ethercat.com'" <ethe...@ethercat.com>
Subject: Narconon
Date sent: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:46:11 -0700
Hi Ann,
When I wrote you yesterday, I was writing about "Narconon", not
"Narcanon". I just spelled it wrong. I have no idea what "Narcanon" is
and never heard of it until today. I apologize for the error.
Thanks
Steve
<end of email>
On Thu, 17 May 2001 00:16:04 GMT, ethercat <ethe...@arscc-atl.com>
wrote in message-ID <bk56gton3qugms26a...@4ax.com>:
ethercat
the newsgroups line for messages on this thread? There are a number of
people in that newsgroup who are concerned about this issue. Thanks.
ethercat
On 17 May 2001 18:04:57 GMT, saych...@aol.com (Say Cheeeez) wrote in
message-ID <20010517140457...@ng-fo1.aol.com>:
>I have also been in touch with Steve Sigman from NA WSO and his reference to
>NarcAnon rather than Narconon was simply a spelling mistake. He never heard of
>NarcAnon until today.
>Rich
>
|\__/,| (\
ethercat
sent to ars.
arna people, will you please include alt.religion.scientology in
the newsgroups line for messages on this thread? There are a number of
people in that newsgroup who are concerned about this issue. Thanks.
On 15 May 2001 05:41:35 GMT, reco...@aol.com (Recoveree) wrote in
message-ID <20010515014135...@ng-ch1.aol.com>:
Rich, I didn't see your posts till now, because I read from ars. Thanks
for your input.
>To clarify....Narconon is a drug treatment facility under the direction of The
>Church Of Scientology.
>
>NarcAnon is a word invented (probably by Frederick Rice) (www.crackpots.org))
>for the purpose of steering people away from Narconon.
It was not invented by Fred Rice. He uses it on the crackpots.org
site because there is a misconception among the general public that it
is an abbreviated form of Narcotics Anonymous. I have informed him that
it is not, and he says he will be clarifying the misconception on the
page, while still using the term to attract searchers. He also has the
domains, narcanon.net and narcanon.org.
Here are a few more examples of the public's misconceptions.
From:
http://mentalhelp.net/guide/pro21.htm
"Anonymous One, Inc. An unofficial site of 12 step meetings world wide.
Includes Alcoholics Anon, AlaTeen, NarcAnon. This is a true world list
of meetings and support. http://www.anonymousone.com - 11 Feb 2000 - N
BRP
(To their credit, the Anonymous One, Inc. site itself does not make the
mistake.)
From:
http://www.tagmag.com/features/upallnight.html
Find yourself in a jam due to your illicit, aforementioned, drug abuse?
Stop by a NarcAnon or an AA meeting at the St. Marks Community Center
and take the first of your 12 steps toward sobriety (8th Street between
2nd and 3rd) they're open 24 hours everyday and it's free.
From:
http://www.megahits.com/stpauls/commun.html
ST. PAUL'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH
NarcAnon - Self-help for those with drug addiction. Meets Thursday at
8:00 p.m.
>Neither one of these terms is recognized by the Fellowship of Narcotics
>Anonymous and neither one of these organizations is affiliated with or endorsed
>by NA.
>Richie S.
ethercat
sent to ars.
arna people, will you please include alt.religion.scientology in
the newsgroups line for messages on this thread? There are a number of
people in that newsgroup who are concerned about this issue. Thanks.
From: reco...@aol.com (Recoveree)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na
Date: 15 May 2001 05:31:22 GMT
References: <g98pft84vl8s2t5cq...@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: "Narcanon" vs. Narconon
Message-ID: <20010515013122...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
> A statement from NA will serve our
>>(critic's) needs very well in clearing up the public's confusion.
>>Having the statement from NA will give us an authoritative source to
>>provide in doing so. Thank you for your efforts!
Here is your answer.......
Tradition 6 of Narcotics Anonymous
TRADITION SIX
"An N.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the N.A. name to
any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money,
property or prestige divert us from our primary purpose."
This Tradition is the basis for our policy of non-affiliation.
Many other organizations wish to ride on the N.A. name. To allow them to
do so would be an implied endorsement and a violation of this Tradition.
Hospitals, drug recovery houses, probation and parole offices are some
of the facilities we deal with in carrying the N.A. message. While these
organizations are sincere and we hold N.A. meetings in their
establishments, we cannot endorse, finance or allow them to use the N.A.
name to further their growth. However, we are willing to carry the N.A.
principles into these institutions to the addicts
who still suffer so that they can make the choice.
Another thing warned against is lending the N.A. name to fulfill the
purposes of other programs. For example, several times other programs
have tried to use Narcotics Anonymous as part of their "services
offered" to help justify funding.
This Tradition also tells us "who". A related facility is any place that
involves N.A. members. It might be a halfway house, a detox center, a
counseling center, a clubhouse or any one of a number of such places.
People are easily confused by what is N.A. and what are the related
facilities. Recovery houses which have been started or staffed by N.A.
members have to take care that the differentiation is clear. Perhaps the
most confusion exists when it involves a clubhouse situation. Newcomers
and even older members often identify the clubhouse with Narcotics
Anonymous. We should make a special effort to let these people know that
these are not the same. The second "who" are outside enterprises. An
outside enterprise is any agency, business venture, religion, society,
organization, related activity, or any other fellowship.
Most of these are easy to identify, except for the other fellowships.
Narcotics Anonymous is a separate and distinct fellowship in its own
right. Our problem is addiction. The other Twelve Step fellowships
specialize in other problems, and our relationship with them is one of
"cooperation, not affiliation". The use of literature, speakers, and
announcements of other fellowships in our meetings constitutes an
implied endorsement of an outside enterprise.
Narcotics Anonymous has no professional therapists, no residential
facilities, and no clinics. NA provides no vocational, legal, financial,
psychiatric, or medical services
In order to maintain its focus, Narcotics Anonymous has established a
tradition of nonendorsement and does not take positions as an
organization on anything outside its own specific sphere of activity.
Narcotics Anonymous does not express opinions, either pro or con, on
civil, social, medical, legal, or religious issues, nor does it take any
stands on secondary addiction-related issues such as criminality, law
enforcement, drug legalization or penalties, prostitution, HIV
infection, or free-needle programs. The NA movement does not even oppose
the use of drugs, stating only that if an addict desires to stop
using, Narcotics Anonymous stands ready to help.
The World Service Board of Trustees believes that a policy, or attitude,
or phrase which serves our purpose best and guides our fellowship well
is "a policy of non-affiliation." This clearly conveys the fact that we
do not associate with, connect with, or adopt any other organization or
purpose. Traditions Six and Ten refer to these issues, and there can
never be any formal relationship between Narcotics Anonymous and any
other fellowship or organization.
Narcotics Anonymous is known as such or as NA. There is no other
official acronym for this fellowship. Since September 14, 1953 our
fellowship has used the name Narcotics Anonymous and has not had any
other name since.
The only reference I have found regarding the use of the term NarcAnon
in regards to NA is on the web sites at www.crackpots.org and on their
related link, at www.Narcanon.org. These are NOT NA web sites or
endorsed by NA. In fact, these web sites present misinformation in this
regard.
Richie S.
Public Information VC
Nassau Area of Eastern New York Region
of Narcotics Anonymous
<end repost>
ethercat
sent to ars.
arna people, will you please include alt.religion.scientology in
the newsgroups line for messages on this thread? There are a number of
people in that newsgroup who are concerned about this issue. Thanks.
From: reco...@aol.com (Recoveree)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na
Date: 16 May 2001 05:58:09 GMT
References: <k283gt4ctjrnm9q21...@4ax.com>
Subject: Re: "Narcanon" vs. Narconon
Message-ID: <20010516015809...@ng-cg1.aol.com>
>f NA can say it's not AA, then it can say it's not Narconon.
>
of course..........that is what I wrote earlier...that NA is not
anything but NA, and uses no other name besides 'Narcotics Anonymous' or
the abbreviation 'NA' .
Perhaps you miss the point........Narcotics Anonymous does not condone
or endorse any other program, treatment facility, treatment method, or
name. As well , NA is not any other program.To further clarify it for
you Reese, , Narcotics Anonymous is not Narconon or NarcAnon, has not
ever been Narconon or NarcAnon, and has no relationship to any group,
organization or facility with the name Narconon or NarcAnon (or any
other outside enterprise). For more information in this regard, read my
previous posts, or read about Tradition six in Narcotics Anonymous
literature.
Richie S.
Public Information VC
Nassau Area of Eastern New York Region
of Narcotics Anonymous
Path:
typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net!jxnws01!newsfeed2.skycache.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 19
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
From: reco...@aol.com (Recoveree)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na
Date: 16 May 2001 05:58:09 GMT
References: <k283gt4ctjrnm9q21...@4ax.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: "Narcanon" vs. Narconon
Message-ID: <20010516015809...@ng-cg1.aol.com>
Xref: jxnws01 alt.recovery.na:212369
>f NA can say it's not AA, then it can say it's not Narconon.
>
of course..........that is what I wrote earlier...that NA is not
anything but NA, and uses no other name besides 'Narcotics Anonymous' or
the abbreviation 'NA' .
Perhaps you miss the point........Narcotics Anonymous does not condone
or endorse any other program, treatment facility, treatment method, or
name. As well , NA is not any other program.To further clarify it for
you Reese, , Narcotics Anonymous is not Narconon or NarcAnon, has not
ever been Narconon or NarcAnon, and has no relationship to any group,
organization or facility with the name Narconon or NarcAnon (or any
other outside enterprise). For more information in this regard, read my
previous posts, or read about Tradition six in Narcotics Anonymous
literature.
Richie S.
Public Information VC
Nassau Area of Eastern New York Region
of Narcotics Anonymous
<end repost>
|\__/,| (\
ethercat
www.users.wineasy.se/noname/ <ze...@wineasy.se> wrote in
<80v7gtk83dma5mm1u...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force>:
>On Thu, 17 May 2001 00:16:04 GMT.
>In Message-ID: <bk56gton3qugms26a...@4ax.com>
>From: ethercat <ethe...@arscc-atl.com>.
>Organization: www.arscc-atl.com.
>Wrote on the subject: NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion:
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>From: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
>>To: "'ethe...@ethercat.com'"
>><ethe...@ethercat.com>
>>Subject: FW: FW: NA and the use of the term NarcAnon
>>Date sent: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:40:21 -0700
>>
>>Hi Ann,
>>Thanks for your interest in clarification regarding the name of our
>>fellowship, and your concern for addicts. We appreciate your thoughts
>>and your communication.
>>Our understanding is that "Narcanon" is a registered trademark of
>>another organization and has been for many years.
>
>Here we go again...
>
>What other organization have registered "Narcanon"? I think we have
>confusion again.
I don't think any organization has registered a trademark for
Narcanon. I ran a search at the US Patent and Trademark Office's web
site, http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=jc7mn6.1.1
for the term Narcanon, Narca?, and Narc? (the ? being for anything
beyond the characters entered), and it came up with nothing. Of
course, this is not definitive. But I seriously doubt such an
organization exists.
Here's a post that didn't make it to ars, but was posted on
alt.recovery.na:
From: unjon...@webtv.net (unjon harley)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery.na
Subject: Re: Threat Assessment: CoS
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 10:24:07 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <27388-3AF...@storefull-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
References: <3AFCB585...@cheqnet.net>
Pam ...I think you have your feather stuck. About 15-20 years ago
narcanon was used as a slur. It usually came out of the mouth of Hard
Ass AAer's in reference to the then new NA people starting meetings for
recovering addicts. Have not seem or heard the expression used in
many years. The letters N A are used in organizations world wide.
Narcotics Anonymous is copyrighted and owned by Narcoticts Anonymous.
\\
JonB.......This old Harley still throbs now and again.
//
>Sigh....
>
>I fucking give up, when even NA's rep is confused and can't see the
>difference between NarcANON and NarCONon
I haven't given up yet. I want this straightened out, with or
without NA's help. By trying to avoid controversy, I believe they are
just inviting it.
ethercat
wrote in
<bkb8gtkood1ro2iru...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force>:
>On Thu, 17 May 2001 19:40:52 GMT.
>In Message-ID: <do98gts0dpld73h13...@4ax.com>
>From: ethercat <ethe...@arscc-atl.com>.
>Organization: www.arscc-atl.com.
>Wrote on the subject: Re: NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion:
>> I don't think any organization has registered a trademark for
>>Narcanon. I ran a search at the US Patent and Trademark Office's web
>>site, http://tess.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=searchss&state=jc7mn6.1.1
>>for the term Narcanon, Narca?, and Narc? (the ? being for anything
>>beyond the characters entered), and it came up with nothing. Of
>>course, this is not definitive. But I seriously doubt such an
>>organization exists.
>
>Hey wait, if you searched for Narc? it should have turned up
>scientology's NarCONon. Didn't it do that? I'm sure they are registered
>as a TM, in fact I know they are. In fact this URL which leads to the
>crime cult show that they are: http://www.narconon.org/tmnotice.htm
I should have been more explicit. I meant that I didn't find
anything matching Narcanon. But yes, NarCONon is there; here is its
info:
Typed Drawing
Word Mark NARCONON
Goods and Services IC 041. US 107. G & S: EDUCATIONAL
SERVICES-NAMELY, ORGANIZING AND CONDUCTING TRAINING AND REHABILITATION
PROGRAMS FOR NARCOTICS ADDICTS AND CRIMINALS. FIRST USE: 19660219. FIRST
USE IN COMMERCE: 19660219
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 73040664
Filing Date December 30, 1974
Registration Number 1025913
Registration Date November 25, 1975
Owner (REGISTRANT) HUBBAARD, L. RON INDIVIDUAL UNITED
STATES ST. HILL MANOR EAST GRINSTEAD, SUSSEX ENGLAND (LAST LISTED OWNER)
ASSOCIATION FOR BETTER LIVING AND EDUCATION NON-PROFIT CORPORATION
ASSIGNEE OF CALIFORNIA 6331 HOLLYWOOD BOULEVARD, SUITE 700 HOLLYWOOD
CALIFORNIA 90028
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record JOAN KUPERSMITH LARKIN
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 19951101
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
>> I haven't given up yet. I want this straightened out, with or
>>without NA's help. By trying to avoid controversy, I believe they are
>>just inviting it.
>>
>
>Yes, it is extremely important to clear up any confusion here, because
>the scientology scam NarCONon is not only a criminal enterprise, but also
>a dangerous quack treatment.
The potential danger in the NarCONon method concerns me. I am no
expert on drugs and addiction, but I do know that some particular drugs
cannot safely be given up cold turkey as is expected in the NarCONon
program. I know that medical supervision is recomended in these cases,
and I also know what medical experts have said about hours in a sauna
and large doses of Niacin being harmful. There are no unbiased medical
studies which show that the NarCONon process works.
I don't like to see people being scammed, especially while being hurt
in the process. And I don't like seeing crimes and fraud comitted under
the cloaking device of "religion".
DCUclean
news:80v7gtk83dma5mm1u...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force...> Wrote on the subject: NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion:
>
> What other organization have registered "Narcanon"? I think we have
> confusion again.
>
>
> I fucking give up, when even NA's rep is confused and can't see the
> difference between NarcANON and NarCONon
Been attending NA meetings for almost 20 years. I have never seen the words
NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA. These
threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion. NarcAnon
or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do with
NA.
DCUclean
>
>
> >Although it is
> >similar to the name of our fellowship, we do not plan on placing
> >anything about the name "Narcanon" on our website. To do so, we
> >would be giving information and opinion about an outside organization
> >and our guiding principles caution against this.
>
> What outside organization is that, which is using the name "Narcanon"?
>
> Again, confusion I believe. Just what the scum sucking scientology shit
> cult wants when using the name "NarCONon. (NOTE for fucks sake the
> difference between NarcANON and NarCONon.
>
> This is getting fucking stupid.
>
>
> Sten-Arne
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
>
> From "Dianetics: The Mein Kampf of Scientology:
>
> "Perhaps at some distant date only the unaberrated person will be
> granted civil rights before law. Perhaps the goal will be reached at
> some future time when only the unaberrated person can attain to and
> benefit from citizenship. These are desirable goals..."
>
> (Dianetics, book 3, chapter 10)
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
> *********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
> IRC #Scientology JavaChat http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/irc.html
> * Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
> ******************* ze...@wineasy.se (Anti-Cult) ********************
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
jazzzman
>
> > I fucking give up, when even NA's rep is confused and can't see the
> > difference between NarcANON and NarCONon
>
> Been attending NA meetings for almost 20 years. I have never seen the words
> NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA. These
> threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
> anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion. NarcAnon
> or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do with
> NA.
Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
Confusion? Oh my yes...
--
jazzzman
http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him
and not only will he not scold you, he will make a fool of himself too.
Samuel Butler (1835–1902), British writer, painter, and musician.
http://members.home.com/tigernest/
Say Cheeeez
>the newsgroups line for messages on this thread? There are a number of
>people in that newsgroup who are
Hi ethernet,
Actually, I dont know how to do that.perhaps you can just foward to there .
Rich
Recoveree
>> NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA. These
>> threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
>> anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion.
>NarcAnon
>> or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do with
>> NA.
>
>Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
>
>Confusion? Oh my yes...
>
Apparently no confusion exists among NA members, but there is some confusion
among a segment of the general population. There will always be confusion in
the public, and there will always be those that try to pervet programs such as
NA for their own purposes. We cannot prevent this. The best we can do is use
whatever resources we have available to inform the public of who we are and
what we do. I for one try to make these clarifications whenever I come across
the confusion. It is something all informed NA members can do. Perhaps at some
time in the future, NA will have the resources and the manpower to address
every instance of
misinformation there is, but for now the best we can do is let the public know
what the program is, and also answer any questions that are directed to us.
Richie S.
NA member
ethercat
<bos...@extremely-sharp.com> wrote in message-ID
<tgae7l2...@corp.supernews.com>:
>Been attending NA meetings for almost 20 years. I have never seen the words
>NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA. These
>threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
>anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion. NarcAnon
>or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do with
>NA.
>
>DCUclean
Look here: http://www.tagmag.com/features/upallnight.html
Look here: http://mentalhelp.net/guide/pro21.htm
You'll have to scroll down a bit, or just hit Control-F and type in
narcanon.
I assure you, they don't mean NarCONon, as it is neither a 12-step
program, nor is it free.
Reese
Let me see if I've got this straight: You believe there's confusion
and you will do your part to clear up this confusion, but you're
totally against NA putting a statement up on it's homepage that NA is
known as NA and as Narcotics Anonymous and not by any other names and
that NA does not own any other names in the United States.
Is that correct?
Reese
ethercat
From: ethercat <ethe...@ethercat.com>
To: Steve Sigman <St...@na.org>
Subject: Re: Narconon
Date sent: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:42:33 -0400
Hi Steve,
On 17 May 01, at 9:46, Steve Sigman wrote:
> Hi Ann,
> When I wrote you yesterday, I was writing about "Narconon", not
> "Narcanon". I just spelled it wrong. I have no idea what "Narcanon"
> is and never heard of it until today. I apologize for the error.
> Thanks Steve
No problem, and thanks for the apology. I understand the
confusion, as it is a mistake many people make.
However, the fact remains that NarcAnon is a term many people use
to refer to your organization, NA, and I feel this confusion among
the public both hurts your organization and helps the organization
NarCONon. Here are some examples of websites that make the mistake:
http://mentalhelp.net/guide/pro21.htm - A listing of resources for
alcohol and substance abuse, lists this:
"Anonymous One, Inc. An unofficial site of 12 step meetings world
wide. Includes Alcoholics Anon, AlaTeen, NarcAnon. This is a true
world list of meetings and support."
http://www.tagmag.com/features/upallnight.html
"Find yourself in a jam due to your illicit, aforementioned, drug
abuse? Stop by a NarcAnon or an AA meeting at the St. Marks Community
Center and take the first of your 12 steps toward sobriety (8th
Street between 2nd and 3rd) they're open 24 hours everyday and it's
free."
I assure you, these sites do not mean NarCONon, as it is not a 12
program and it is not free.
I have taken on the chore of emailing these sites and asking for
them to make corrections, as I have the time and as I find them. I
am not asking for NA's help in doing this; it is something I am
willing spend my spare time doing because I care about people not
being drawn into NarCONon when they intend to become involved with
NA.
With regard to the email you sent me yesterday about NAWS making a
statement about the correct ways of referring to NA:
> That's a possibility, Ann, but I think this idea has come up before.
> You see, in other countries, we are known by the English name and
> sometimes by a translated name.
>
> I'll keep your suggestion in mind for the next conversation we have
> about this kind of thing.
Please do keep it in mind, and I hope you will take the
opportunity at your earliest convenience to discuss this issue. As
you say, the issue has come up before, and I believe it will continue
to arise, as long as the confusion is allowed to continue. I feel
confident that NA can come up with a way of eliminating the confusion
which will not compromise your traditions and will not cause
confusion in other languages. I'd be happy to offer some suggestions
for the wording if you'd like, or which NAWS can use as a guide to
forming their own statement.
Thanks again,
Ann
DCUclean
"jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B053A9D...@home.com...
> DCUclean wrote:
>
> >
> > > I fucking give up, when even NA's rep is confused and can't see the
> > > difference between NarcANON and NarCONon
> >
> > Been attending NA meetings for almost 20 years. I have never seen the
words
> > NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA.
These
> > threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
> > anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion.
NarcAnon
> > or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do
with
> > NA.
>
> Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
>
> Confusion? Oh my yes...
I found confusion but I have not found it at a meeting. Have you found any
member of NA refering to NA as Naranon?
DCUclean
>
> --
>
> jazzzman
> http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
>
> The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with
him
> and not only will he not scold you, he will make a fool of himself too.
>
> Samuel Butler (1835-1902), British writer, painter, and musician.
>
> http://members.home.com/tigernest/
>
>
DCUclean
"ethercat" <ethe...@arscc-atl.com> wrote in message
news:3b057f49....@nntp.atl.mediaone.net...
> On Fri, 18 May 2001 10:00:06 -0500, "DCUclean"
> <bos...@extremely-sharp.com> wrote in message-ID
> <tgae7l2...@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >Been attending NA meetings for almost 20 years. I have never seen the
words
> >NarcAnon or Narcon printed concerning NA nor spoken concerning NA. These
> >threads are the first time I have seen the expresion. I have never met
> >anyone in NA that refers to NA as NarcAnon. There is no confusion.
NarcAnon
> >or Narconon has nothing to do with NA and has never had anything to do
with
> >NA.
> >
> >DCUclean
>
> Look here: http://www.tagmag.com/features/upallnight.html
> Look here: http://mentalhelp.net/guide/pro21.htm
I can see how a non member of NA could be confused by these links or this
whole Narcanon business. As an NA member, I understand that those links
have nothing to do with NA. My point is that NA members do not refer to
themselves as Narcanon.
DCUclean
ethercat
<bos...@extremely-sharp.com> wrote in
<tgefgid...@corp.supernews.com>:
>
>"ethercat" <ethe...@arscc-atl.com> wrote in message
>news:3b057f49....@nntp.atl.mediaone.net...
>>
>> Look here: http://www.tagmag.com/features/upallnight.html
>> Look here: http://mentalhelp.net/guide/pro21.htm
Ok. If those links doesn't convince you that some of the non-NA
public is using the term NarcAnon to refer to NA, then look at this one:
http://backandneck.about.com/health/backandneck/
Click on the link on the left that says Narc-Anon and see what's on the
page it takes you to.
I have already emailed this site's webmaster and been told that it
would be changed to read NA or Narcotics Anonymous, along with "thank
you for straightening me out on this". So look soon, or it may be
changed.
>I can see how a non member of NA could be confused by these links or this
>whole Narcanon business. As an NA member, I understand that those links
>have nothing to do with NA. My point is that NA members do not refer to
>themselves as Narcanon.
Nothing to do with NA other than the fact that they are referring
people to NA using the term NarcAnon. I know these are community sites,
and not NA sites, but they most certainly _do_ mean Narcotics Anonymous.
As I mentioned in my previous post:
>> I assure you, they don't mean NarCONon, as it is neither a 12-step
>> program, nor is it free.
There is a group called NarCONon, run by the scientology
organization, which is playing on this confusion in the general public.
The NarCONon program is expensive and potentially dangerous and is a
conduit for getting people into scientology, so I am trying to clear up
this confusion.
There is no NarcAnon group to be found anywhere. I have searched. I
have asked. I even searched trademark records. The only thing I have
found is that one of the other posters to arna (unjon harley) said this:
"About 15-20 years ago narcanon was used as a slur. It usually came
out of the mouth of Hard Ass AAer's in reference to the then new NA
people starting meetings for recovering addicts. Have not seem or heard
the expression used in many years."
|\__/,| (\
ethercat
<bos...@extremely-sharp.com> wrote in
<tgef717...@corp.supernews.com>:
>"jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3B053A9D...@home.com...
>> Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
>>
>> Confusion? Oh my yes...
>
>I found confusion but I have not found it at a meeting. Have you found any
>member of NA refering to NA as Naranon?
We've been discussing confusion among the general public. I'm
concerned about people who want to be members of NA finding the term
NarcAnon used to refer to NA on community sites and mistaking it to be
NarCONon, the scientology group, instead.
NA members have already found NA and know what it is, and where to
find it.
Recoveree
>Date: 5/19/01 11:20 AM Eastern
>Let me see if I've got this straight: You believe there's confusion
>and you will do your part to clear up this confusion, but you're
>totally against NA putting a statement up on it's homepage that NA is
>known as NA and as Narcotics Anonymous and not by any other names and
>that NA does not own any other names in the United States.
>Is that correct?
>Reese
No...not correct. I never said that I was totally against NA putting a
statement up on it's homepage that NA is
known as NA and as Narcotics Anonymous and not by any other names and that NA
does not own any other names in the United States. I didnt even say I was a
little against it. I didn't even address that specific issue before. Your
statement makes me wonder about the accuracy of anything you post. Just for the
record Reese, I am all for NA posting exactly what you suggest on their web
site ...and in all their literature as well.
Richie
jazzzman
>
> > Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
> >
> > Confusion? Oh my yes...
>
> I found confusion but I have not found it at a meeting. Have you found any
> member of NA refering to NA as Naranon?
You're still confused.
Naranon is the fellowship created for family members of addicts....
--
jazzzman
http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him
and not only will he not scold you, he will make a fool of himself too.
Samuel Butler (1835–1902), British writer, painter, and musician.
http://members.home.com/tigernest/
jazzzman
> I can see how a non member of NA could be confused by these links or this
> whole Narcanon business. As an NA member, I understand that those links
> have nothing to do with NA. My point is that NA members do not refer to
> themselves as Narcanon.
Some seem to online...
DCUclean
> DCUclean wrote:
>
> >
> > > Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
> > >
> > > Confusion? Oh my yes...
> >
> > I found confusion but I have not found it at a meeting. Have you found
any
> > member of NA refering to NA as Naranon?
>
> You're still confused.
> Naranon is the fellowship created for family members of addicts....
Thanks Jazzman. It was supposed to be Narcanon.
DCUclean
>
> --
>
> jazzzman
> http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
>
> The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with
him
> and not only will he not scold you, he will make a fool of himself too.
>
> Samuel Butler (1835-1902), British writer, painter, and musician.
>
> http://members.home.com/tigernest/
>
>
jazzzman
> "jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B07D2D5...@home.com...
> > DCUclean wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > > Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
> > > >
> > > > Confusion? Oh my yes...
> > >
> > > I found confusion but I have not found it at a meeting. Have you found
> any
> > > member of NA refering to NA as Naranon?
> >
> > You're still confused.
> > Naranon is the fellowship created for family members of addicts....
>
> Thanks Jazzman. It was supposed to be Narcanon.
This just shows how confusing it really is; I did see several sites that seemed
to be published by NA members, who referred to their groups as Narcanon...
doing a search on Narc A non brought up many sites for Narc O non....
But we know who we are....
--
jazzzman
http://members.home.com/tigernest/control.html
The great pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him
and not only will he not scold you, he will make a fool of himself too.
Samuel Butler (1835–1902), British writer, painter, and musician.
http://members.home.com/tigernest/
Recoveree
>From: jazzzman
>I did see several sites that seemed
>to be published by NA members, who referred to their groups as Narcanon...
Jazzman could you please foward those sites to me.
Richie
jazzzman
No. Do a search yourself, if you want to play NA cop....
I do not have the time.
Recoveree
>> >to be published by NA members, who referred to their groups as Narcanon...
>>
>> Jazzman
Jazzman, could you please foward those sites to me.
>> Richie
>
>No. Do a search yourself, if you want to play NA cop....
>I do not have the time.
>jazzzman
If you dont have time, then how did you find them , and why are you here
posting if you are so busy? ...But that is just rhetorical, because I know that
there are no such sites , and AS USUAL you make comments without backing them
up with documentation....nice try troll
Richie
jazzzman
ROFLMAO!!!
I found them once, why should I back track just for you?
Learn to read... I said I don't have time to help you play NA cop....
But don't believe me..... No skin off my ass....
Terrible Tom
>
>ROFLMAO!!!
>I found them once, why should I back track just for you?
Translation: the fat pig got caught bullshitting again
****ALT.2600.WAREZ AWARD : ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!****
no spam@hotmail.com John D
> Recoveree wrote:
>
> > >Subject: Re: NA on NarcAnon/NarCONon confusion
> > >From: jazzzman
> >
> > >I did see several sites that seemed
> > >to be published by NA members, who referred to their groups as
Narcanon...
> >
> > Jazzman could you please foward those sites to me.
> > Richie
>
> No. Do a search yourself, if you want to play NA cop....
> I do not have the time.
>
Trying typing with one hand and holding the doughnut with the other.
That way you'll be able to do two things at once.
HTH ... John
Recoveree
>>I did see several sites that seemed
>> >> >to be published by NA members, who referred to their groups as
>Narcanon...
The sites you refer to were not published by NA members, nor do they "SEEM" to
be.
As usual more inaccurate statements from you. At least you are consistent.
jazzzman
Since I did not mention any specific sites, I could you know which ones I
"referred" to....?
'Sides... I thought you didn't believe me, and were not going to go look?
Go back to pretending to be an NA guru... you're better at that...
jazzzman
>
> > No. Do a search yourself, if you want to play NA cop....
> > I do not have the time.
>
>
> Trying typing with one hand and holding the doughnut with the other.
> That way you'll be able to do two things at once.
Yet, I can go on a diet, while your stupidity will remain....
Recoveree
>Since I did not mention any specific sites, I could you know which ones I
>"referred" to....?
Because you mentioned that you have the time to go back over your old posts to
look for them ...so I did.......pretty simple thinking.hard to believe you
couldn't figure that one out.
It doesn't change the fact that
The sites you refer to were not "published by NA members", nor do they "SEEM"to
jazzzman
You're tripping....
ethercat
wrote in <3b07...@news2.lightlink.com>:
>"DCUclean" <bos...@extremely-sharp.com> wrote in message
>news:tgefgid...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> I can see how a non member of NA could be confused by these links
>> or this whole Narcanon business. As an NA member, I understand
>> that those links have nothing to do with NA. My point is that NA
>> members do not refer to themselves as Narcanon.
>
> The point is, that people OUTSIDE NA have the confusion and may be
>referring people by mistake to NarCONon, the quack "treatment" which
>is a front for Scientology.
>
> People INSIDE the group which refers to itself as NA, not NarcAnon,
>(or the Scn'y front group NarCONon) aren't the targets for the cult,
>as they are already in the program. Understand yet?
>
> If you knew someone on drugs who wanted to get off drugs, and who
>was looking for a program to help them, which would you rather they
>went for, NA, or NarCONon (emphasis on the "con" mine)?
>
>That's what we are trying to convey.
Thank you, Starshadow.
ethercat
<AlanS2001_s...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in
<9e8r0t$kk9$1...@taliesin.netcom.net.uk>:
>"jazzzman" <tige...@home.com> wrote in message
>>
>>Do a quick search on the Net on NarcAnon....
>>
>> Confusion? Oh my yes...
>
>http://www.show.scot.nhs.uk/fpct/mhweb/narcanon.htm
Added to my list of sites to notify. Anyone else is welcome to
contact this site - especially NA people, because the site's update form
asks for name, title, organisation, etc. Multiple emails don't hurt, in
fact, they may help to get it changed faster.
This site was updated and corrected today. Check it again and see
what you think of the update.
The index page of http://www.crackpots.org/ was also updated today.
It has a link to the narcanon.org page to explain the confusion.
>Found the following meta tag,
><META NAME="KeyWords" CONTENT="drug treatment,rehab
>center,narconon,narcanon">,
> in the Narconon page http://www.aei.net/~narconon/
This is a scientology narCONon page. They *love* the confusion, and
would like to perpetuate it. Anyone is welcome to email them about it,
but I seriously doubt the word "narcanon" will be removed. This is why
it's so important to end the confusion in the public's mind.
>Found the following meta tag,
><META NAME="KeyWords" CONTENT="alcohol abuse, alcoholism, alcohol, drug
>abuse, drugs, addiction, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, narcotics,
>methamphetamine, speed, crack, self-help, tobacco, Alcoholics annonymous,
>substance abuse, recreational drugs, teen counseling, parenting, sober,
>drug rehab, treatment, recovery, adolescent, inner child work, AA, NA, CA,
>Alanon, Alateen, Cocanon, narcanon, smoking, food, bulemia, anorexia,
>denial, counseling, therapy, psychology, psychiatry, group, individual,
>assessment, intervention, evaluation, dual diagnosis, high school, college
>prep, teenager, arrest, DUI, DWI, 502, drug court, court, probation,
>parole, prison, testing, designer drugs, extasy, PCP, California, Orange,
>San Bernardino, Southern, Riverside, County, San Diego, Oceanside,
>alternative, suspended, expelled, truant, suicidal, depression, ADHD, ADD,
>Bi-polar, disorder, sex, food">
>in the rehab page http://www.chapmanhouseinc.com/
This site appears to be a non-scientology treatment center, which
uses NA meetings as a part to their treatment program. From:
http://www.chapmanhouseinc.com/residential2.htm
"12 - STEP MEETING: A closed, confidential meeting of Alcoholics
Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Gamblers
Anonymous or other anonymous group. The Chapman House staff
transports the participants who are in our Intensive Phase of
Treatment to these meetings which are located throughout the
community. This gives the participant the time and exposure
necessary to feel comfortable with these support groups before
entering into out Sober Living Phase of treatment."
Added to my list, but not a high priority for me - an NA person may
want to contact them about the use of "narcanon". Personally, I'm just
happy someone searching on "narcanon" will find them and perhaps not
narCONon.
I'm somewhat of mixed feelings with regard to the use of "narcanon"
in meta tags. I think the confusion will exist in the public for some
time, and people will still be searching for the term while it does. At
least sites referring to NA that use the term will come up on searches.
But hopefully, the narcanon.org site will come up first in searches, and
clear up the confusion right away. Anyone else with an opinion to add
regarding sites using "narcanon" in meta tags?
>AlanS
Thanks, AlanS.