What is codependent?

an...@anonymous.com

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Aug 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/4/00

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I think i might be this....

truth_wil...@my-deja.com

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Aug 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/4/00

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In article <bqjlososbdpq49tnj...@4ax.com>,

<an...@anonymous.com> wrote:
> I think i might be this....
>

Is this fill in the blanks?

When I first heard the term "codependent" it was used to describe the
characteristics of a person who was in a close relationship with a
substance abuser. The enabling, worrying, trying to make them stop,
etc. It was described as a "disease" that I guess people caught from
the substance abuser. I've also heard someone say, "As a codependent I
have the same disease as an addict or alcoholic. I just don't use
drugs or alcohol."
Think about that statement, if you will. What is the defining
characteristic of an addict or alcoholic? Drinking and drug use
right? Anyways....
It seems now that codependent is used to describe just about anything
that doesn't go the way someone wants it to in a relationship. Doesn't
matter if there's any drinking or drugging going on. Doesn't matter if
there's any enabling, etc going on. Just that someone isn't happy with
the whole thing and then the labels come out.
My mother is a psychologist. She has a no-opinion sort of approach to
the whole 12 step thing. She sees things that are good about it for
some people and things that aren't so good also. She deals alot with
people who have relationship issues. Spouses, parents, kids,
employers...all types of relationships. She tells me things about her
practice and the problems she sees.
What I see is that many people who label themselves codependent are
nothing more than human beings who struggle with relationships with
other human beings. The people my mom sees are not substance abusers
(often), just regular people and they struggle with many of the same
things that are called codependent. Power struggles, passive-
agressiveness, failure to ask for what they need, blaming,
manipulating, etc.
It just seems to me to be a human condition :)
So what difference does it make if you call these things codependency
or not? Does it make a difference to label it all? I think it does.
When I read about other's and their behavior, I can almost always
recognize myself at some point in my life. Some of these things have
been mistakes that I have learned from and made changes. Some of them
happened recently, some years ago.
I am a big believer in "adult development". I don't think we stop
growing, learning, or developing once we reach adulthood. I think
there are stages to growth and learning throughout our lives and I
think some of these relationship problems fit right into that. Just
two year olds are notorious for throwing temper tantrums, I think that
there are behaviors that are more common in people of different ages.
I've seen it in myself, I've seen it in others and continue to see it.
It just seems to me to be a human condition :)
I think the biggest thing that has helped me to continue to grow and
learn throughout my life has been my simple belief in my ability to
change and grow. There have been times in my life, or particular
things, that were harder to change than others. I have sought help
from therapists, friends, older and wiser family members, and even 12
step programs to get through these things, but I have never doubted
that there was a way to make it happen.
When I think of the disease model, the labeling, the blaming factor in
all that, I find it to be very self-defeating. If I have an incurable
disease then how limited is my "recovery"? Am I destined forever to
have problems with this? I don't think so. I have proven that one to
myself. There have been things that were big problems for me, that
simply don't exsist in my life today. If I label myself, am I not
telling myself there is something wrong with me? That I am somehow
defective? That I am different than the rest of the human species?
How does that help my self-esteem? How does that help me to grow and
change?
After years of accepting the disease theory (and yes it is just
that...a theory), I have found a much greater sense of peace,
happiness, fulfillment, confidence, identity and freedom by truly
accepting responsibility for myself, my choices, and most importantly
my humanity. I am not different. I do not have a disease. I am a
human who struggles with the same things most humans do. The myth of
some "normal" person somewhere is just that...a myth. We all
struggle. We all have to deal with insecurities, fears, anger,
disappointments, sadness and loss. It's just part of life. We also
have the choice in how we deal with those things. I found true freedom
of choice on the "outside".
People like to feel safe. They like to know what they are dealing
with. They like to know what to expect. Labeling behavior as
codependent may fulfill those needs, but in the end you may be left
clinging to ideas that no longer work in order to keep that safe
feeling. Have the courage to break free and you may find a whole other
world. I know I did.
I think to me it's just part of the human condition :)

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Stewart/sna

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Aug 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/4/00

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truth_wil...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Think about that statement, if you will. What is the defining
>characteristic of an addict or alcoholic? Drinking and drug use
>right?

Chemical (ie. drug or alcohol) addictions are only one type of
addiction. The defining characteristic of an addict (in general) is an
addiction to something.

An addiction to something entails a compulsion to engage in the behavior
one is addicted to. A compulsive behavior is something one does that one
doesn't feel they have sufficient control over. The key phrase is
"sufficient control over". That is, the person desires to change some
aspect of the behavior in some way but doesn't feel they are able. For
example, if one desires to quit a particular behavior but can't, then one
feels addicted. But you don't have to want to quit a behavior, and be
unable to quit, in order to feel addicted. All one needs is the desire to
have more control over the behavior then they are able. Most people don't
feel addicted to air, because most people don't feel a desire to stop
breathing. But if you have ever had the breath knocked out of you, then
you know the desire to control some aspect of your breathing when you feel
that you cannot. It's a powerful addiction. Most people don't feel
addicted to food. Only those who desire to eat less, or otherwise control
their eating in ways that they find difficult, consider themselves
addicted to food. It is possible to think that someone else is an addict
independent of whether or not the other person thinks they are.

Codependency describes a specific subset of addiction in the same way that
a chemcial addiction is a specific subset of addiction. (I think this
similarity is why some people think you can be "codependent" with a
drug.) You could call codependency an "addiction to an addict" if you
like. Note that it is not necessarily "addiction to an alcoholic". Nor
"addiction to a drug addict". It is the more general "addiction to an
addict". Note that the addict a codependent is addicted to may or may not
view themselves as being an addict. It is only necessary that the person
suffering from the "addiction to an addict"/codependency sees them that
way. And the defining characteristic of the "addict addict"/codependent,
like that for all addictions, is that they feel a desire to exert more
control over their addiction then they feel able.

Hence the "slippery slope" of codependency. It exists, like all
addictions, in the eye of the beholder. If I think my spouse is an
alcoholic and I cover for her, and I drink with her, and I try to make her
happy, and I try to get her to quit, then I am not necessarily a
codependent in my eyes. I am only a codependent in my eyes if I want to
stop relating to my spouse in those (or some other) ways, but somehow
don't feel able to stop. But it's a slipery slope in the same way that
the definition of addiction means that we might all, under the right
circumstances feel addicted to air. We are all *potentially* addicted to
other people and to relationships with other people. We are all
*potentially* codependent.

The key is how much we desire to change our behavior relative to the other
person, and don't feel that we are able. Usually this becomes evident
when we try to get the OTHER person to change in the hopes that thus OUR
behavior will change. We nag our spouse to quit drinking, in the hopes
that they will quit and then we won't feel the compulsion/addiction to nag
them. We feel unable to control our own behavior, our
compulsion/addiction to nag them. We try to help others, but feel people
take advantage of our good nature. We want other people to appreciate
us. We rant and rave about our ungrateful spouse, but we feel unable to
change our behaviors so that we don't feel taken advantage of.

Just my own personal thoughts on the matter. Nothing "official" here.

Sincerely
Stewart

--
The Metaphor Man *and* The Great Defender of the Self

metaphor...@usaor.net or anon...@anon.twwells.com
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RebFla

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Aug 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM8/4/00

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Gee, Truth, you sound just like Rich...are you related
somehow?

I am fearful of definitions because I fall too easily into
the habit of Black and White thinking. Also, I just can't
think of all possibilities to make a definition fit every
case.

But personally, I found that recognizing some of my
behavior as codependent was liberating to me. It made me
realize that there was nothing wrong with ME, just that
some of my thinking or logic was faulty.

The defintion of addiction that I like is a very broad one,
"Giving up appropriate self care for an inappropriate
behavior." For codependency, it would be "Giving up
appropriate self care for inappropriate care of others."

Being an ACOA, the concept of appropriate self care was
foreign to me. Learning that I was allowed and even
expected to care for and protect myself opened up a new
world for me. That's what was liberating. I'm not talking
about selfishness, I'm talking about balance and fairness
and expecting self-responsibility from other adults that I
relate with.

It gave me choices that I never had before. Codependency
may be the human condition. So are disease, hunger, and
poverty. It don't make it right.

Interesting conversation, though.

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RLH057