Hypocrisy of the Catholic Church exposed - again
Budikka666
"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
said Friday. "
So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
He's actually a double hypocrite because he's whining here about
abortion, yet his own god is the biggest murderer in history!
He's actually a triple hypocrite because he's a Catholic priest. He's
supposed to be celibate, and therefore he's explicitly not going forth
and multiplying yet he's judging others who are doing exactly the same
thing!
What a jerk-wad.
Budikka
mose
"Budikka666" <budi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ead79853-29f6-4184...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
The church is going downhill fast. The pope trying fo the popularity stakes
has the stupidity to jump on priests telling the truth to support jewish
lies.
Incredible. Next he will be telling us all to accept the talmud? What next,
kick Jesus out? Being to anti Jewish?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/29/world/main4762921.shtml
Catholic Priests Express Holocaust Doubts
A priest in an ultraconservative society recently rehabilitated by Pope
Benedict XVI has defended a bishop in his group and joined him in expressing
doubts about the Holocaust.
While making more cautious remarks than Bishop Richard Williamson, the Rev.
Floriano Abrahamowicz echoed, in an interview published Thursday by an
Italian daily, the prelate's doubts that Jews were gassed during World War
II.
Which is not bad for the catholic church to find out at this stage. May be
it's because the Red Cross is not catholic.
But they would be better than reparations hungry jews.
A bit of reading for the old fella below so that he can catch up with
Christ, the mishna and all those things I thought he would have picked up in
the seminar and general knowledge at his age.
A look at these healthy happy jews will make you wonder just a little more
about the hardship claims.
http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/letters/2003oct_nbr01.htm
This is a contribution to your inquiry about the label: "holocaust-denial".
First of all there was NO holocaust, other than those taking place in every
country that is at war.
The incarceration of "enemies of the state" is a world-wide practice. The
primary question here is; what constitutes a holocaust? Camps, depravation,
imprisonment, harsh treatment, executions, hunger etc.?
Those conditions exist in all camps, in all nations, under all regimes.
Remember Andersonville, Manzanar, the Gulags, the British camps in Africa,
the American death-camps in Germany, they all constitute a "holocaust" if
viewed through the lenses of Jewish "holocaust-sufferers".
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
witnesses.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
There are other indications as well that the theory of mass destruction of
the Hungarian Jews is incorrect: the witnesses to this destruction
unanimously claim that during these alleged mass exterminations the limited
capacity of the Birkenau crematoria necessitated the excavation of enormous
pits, in which the bodies were burned. Dark clouds of smoke, they claim,
darkened the sky over Birkenau during this procedure. Fortunately (or
unfortunately, depending on one's perspective) the aerial reconnaissance
photographs taken by the Allies during this time prove that in the Birkenau
camp, which was not obscured by clouds of smoke when the pictures were
taken, there were neither open fires, nor giant pits, nor smoke activity on
any scale large or small, nor piles of dead bodies, nor great supplies of
firewood, nor anything else of the sort.[45] The Polish Historical Society
concludes that in light of this evidence the number of victims in Auschwitz
must be reduced by another 400,000 plus 74,000 (Polish Jews from the
liquidated ghetto Lodz, who are also claimed to have been gassed around this
time), leaving some 500,000 victims for Auschwitz.[46]
Even allegedly probative documents of the Nuremberg Tribunal cannot change
this, since such documents are by no means always genuine, or true, and only
ever provide evidence for deportations which are not disputed here in the
first place - they never document an extermination. The reader is reminded
of the example of Dachau, the concentration camp where the IMT alleged that
hundreds of thousands were gassed, a claim which in the end turned out to be
nothing more substantial than an atrocity propaganda lie.[47] We shall come
across another case of dubious IMT documents in the discussion of the Soviet
Union.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
Jews will once again subject Robert Faurisson (aged 78) to a trial for
"holocaust denial." The French judicial police served Faurisson a summons
demanding that he appear in court this Thursday (24 Jan 08). Faurisson is
charged with attending the December 11, 2006 conference in Iran titled,
"Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision."
This will be the fifteenth time that Jews have hauled Faurisson into court.
Jews have already frozen his bank account, while court officials have
repeatedly visited his home, threatening him and his wife with seizure of
their furniture to pay for financial "damages" caused by his "heretical"
remarks.
Faurisson is arguably the most thorough of all examiners of the holo-hoax.
Ernst Z�ndel, Gemar Rudolph and others are in prison, but Jews consider
Faurisson enemy #1, because of the meticulousness of his work. And since the
holo-hoax cannot be defended with reason and science, Jews use oppressive
laws and prison sentences to protect it from rational criticism. In many
cases they use extreme violence, as you will see later in this post.
Fortunately the Goyim are too cowardly to resist Jewish terrorism.
At the Iran conference, Faurisson said that for the past 32 years, he has
been waiting for someone to show him one of the chambers where Jews where
supposedly gassed during the holo-hoax.
In July 2006, a Paris court convicted Faurisson of "holocaust denial"
because of remarks made by Faurisson on the Sahar 1 Iranian satellite
channel in February 2005. Faurisson was given a three-month suspended prison
term, and was also fined 7,500 euros.
The former Prime Minister of France, Dominique de Villepin, said, "We [the
French people] are in a democracy. Everyone has the right to express his
views freely."
Therefore all defamatory remarks against Muslims or Islam are protected as
"free speech."
However, any questioning of the holo-hoax or Jewish atrocities is illegal.
The Gayssot Act of 1990 - initiated by President Jaques Chirac -- prohibits
any questioning or examination of the holo-hoax.
Faurisson's specialty is examining documents and manuscripts. In 1991 he was
fired from his university post for questioning the holo-hoax. He was charged
with violating the Gayssot Act, (Loi Gayssot) passed on 13 July 1990 that
makes it illegal in France to question the holo-hoax. The law was proposed
by the communist deputy Jean-Claude Gayssot, and is one of several European
laws that make it illegal to examine the holo-hoax.
Its first article states that "any discrimination founded on the membership
or non-membership to an ethnic group, a nation, a race or a religion is
prohibited."
Discrimination against Muslims, of course, is permissible.
When Faurisson was terminated at the university, he appealed to the ICCPRHRC
(International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and Human Rights
Committee). This is a UN group that polices literature for any questioning
of the holo-hoax. (It is not to be confused with the more high-profile
Commission on Human Rights, a Charter-based mechanism, or its replacement,
the Human Rights Council, which of course is controlled by Jews.)
http://www.von-waldenburg.com/reviews.html
A person who lived in Germany during the war.
http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JNX3
The Toben case today:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/17/germany-australia
"Johnny Asia" <bardi...@mypacks.net wrote in message
news:o_mdnWiesd-_YMrU...@earthlink.com...
�
Among the fooled, at least the partially fooled, was Berenbaum, former
director of the United States Holocaust Research Institute at the U.S.
Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Berenbaum had been asked to read
the manuscript by film producer Harris Salomon, who still plans an
adaptation of the book.
Berenbaum's tentative support - "Crazier things have happened," he told
The
Associated Press last fall - was cited by the publisher as it initially
defended the book. Berenbaum now says he saw factual errors, including
Rosenblat's description of Theresienstadt, the camp from which he was
eventually liberated, but didn't think of challenging the love story.
"There's a limit to what I can verify, because I was not there," he says.
"I
can verify the general historical narrative, but in my research I rely
upon
the survivors to present the specifics of their existence with integrity.
When they don't, they destroy so much and they ruin so much, and that's
terrible."
"I was burned," he added. "And I have to read books more skeptically
because
I was burned."
Anger, sadness over fabricated Holocaust story
By HILLEL ITALIE, AP National Writer - Sun Dec 28, 1:09 pm ET
NEW YORK - It's the latest story that touched, and betrayed, the world.
"Herman Rosenblat and his wife are the most gentle, loving, beautiful
people,"
�
� JUST VERY GREEDY AND COULD NOT RESIST THE EASY DOLLAR.
� AFTER THEY ARE ALL DOING IT.
� literary agent Andrea Hurst said Sunday, anguishing over why she,
and so many others, were taken by Rosenblat's story of love born on
opposite
sides of a barbed-wire fence at a concentration camp.
"I question why I never questioned it. I believed it; it was an
incredible,
hope-filled story."
On Saturday, Berkley Books canceled Rosenblat's memoir, "Angel at the
Fence." Rosenblat acknowledged that he and his wife did not meet, as they
had said for years, at a sub-camp of Buchenwald, where she allegedly
sneaked
him apples and bread. The book was supposed to come out in February.
Rosenblat, 79, has been married to the former Roma Radzicky for 50 years,
since meeting her on a blind date in New York. In a statement issued
Saturday through his agent, he described himself as an advocate of love
and
tolerance who falsified his past to better spread his message.
"I wanted to bring happiness to people," said Rosenblat, who now lives in
the Miami area. "I brought hope to a lot of people. My motivation was to
make good in this world."
Rosenblat's believers included not only his agent and his publisher, but
Oprah Winfrey, film producers, journalists, family members and strangers
who
ignored, or didn't know about, the warnings from scholars that his story
didn't make sense.
Other Holocaust memoirists have devised greater fantasies. Misha
Defonseca,
author of "Misha: A Memoire of the Holocaust Years," pretended she was a
Jewish girl who lived with wolves during the war, when she was actually a
non-Jew who lived, without wolves, in Belgium.
�
� ANOTHER REALLY LOVELY PERSON WHO COULD NOT RESIST OF THE EASY DOLLAR.
Historical records prove Rosenblat was indeed at Buchenwald and other
camps.
"How sad that he felt he had to embellish a life of surviving the
Holocaust
and of being married for half a century," said Holocaust scholar Michael
Berenbaum.
The damage is broad. Publishing, the most trusting of industries, has
again
been burned by a memoir that fact-checking might have prevented. Berkley
is
an imprint of Penguin Group (USA), which in March pulled Margaret B.
Jones'
"Love and Consequences" after the author acknowledged she had invented
her
story of gang life in Los Angeles. Winfrey fell, as she did with James
Frey,
for a narrative of suffering and redemption better suited for television
than for history.
The damage is deep. Scholars and other skeptics as well as fellow
survivors
fear that Rosenblat's fabrications will only encourage doubts about the
Holocaust.
"I am very worried because many of us speak to thousands of student each
year," says Sidney Finkel, a longtime friend of Rosenblat's and a fellow
survivor. "We go before audiences. We tell them a story and now some
people
will question what I experienced."
--
+
Pucker your lips for the Apocalypse!
Johnny Asia, Guitarist from the Future
http://music.download.com/johnnyasia
"If you want to know what the future of
music sounds like..listen to Johnny Asia,
then you'll know!" - Jazz Guitarist Dom Minasi
Over 10,000 Orthodox Jews protesting the existence of the state of
Israel, and the recent beating of Orthodox Jews who protested in Israel
against the uprooting of Jewish cemeteries of antiquity which was done
in order to enable the construction of a highway #6, near Haifa, Israel
- protest in front of the Israeli consulate New York City, Thursday,
April 28, 2005
NETUREI KARTA AROUND THE WORLD
Flag Burning in Protest of Zionist State
http://www.nkusa.org/
Jews against Zionism: The Hidden Protest
http://www.realnews247.com/spec_rpt_jews_against_zionism.htm
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR-Jewish-Bolshevism-Jewish%20Role.html
Jews just doing what they always do. Just more prominent today. But that's
what 100 million Christians went through, and will again in America if they
are not careful about who wields their power.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7805075.stm
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA&feature=related
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DYuWOi56Wq0&feature=related
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/BenCramer1/?action=view¤t=YidKidsinHebron.jpg
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/Trails-Trivia/trivia-JewsForHitler.html
The Zionist Jew, Georg Kareski, repeatedly urged the Nazi government
to introduce a Jewish Star of David, to be worn by Jews. Eventually
his suggestion was accepted and On October 1939 it was ordered (by
Chief of Defense Canaris) that this measure should be introduced in
the General Government, and on September 15, 1941 it was ordered for
the entire Reich.
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YaZBXd-peo
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/Zundel1/transport.htm
England's Lord Shawcross, her most famous legal mind, stated in 1984. ''I
have come to the realization that Hitler did not want war. It was us who
declared war .'', etc. ad nauseum. His admission of historical truth was
subsequently swept under the rug, never to be repeated in public print
again.
http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569802351/103-1175775-5239804?v=glance&n=2
83155
http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner05252005.html
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1553622.php
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST - HOW THE USA CONTROLS AND RUNS ISRAEL???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
http://www.scribd.com/doc/44/Tank-Man
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/
UK Tory leader criticised over Auschwitz comment
10:57AM Sunday February 24, 2008
The government announced this month it would give ?A3;4.65 ($11)
million to the Holocaust Educational Trust - set up in 1988 to educate
young people about the Holocaust.
The money will help the trust extend visits to Auschwitz, where some
1.5 million people, mostly Jews, died.
Wrong - if you talk about school children at least get it right.
And brown has no right to impose his jewish distortion of history onto the
non jewish children of Britain.
WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;
Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,imprisoned or both for
discussing the topics set forth in this article.
Israeli stats
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are persons
with PhD's in various fields who
also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
recently, there was never a forensic
examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figures
are incomplete. After the fall
of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Poland
into the Soviet Union or ended up
behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civilians
died in the war, many died in the
concentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two million
civilians in the Soviet Union died
of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a Holocaust
Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victims
of Nazi
extermination. But as you can see HERE
(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearly
every name is listed at least
twice, some as many as five times!
http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_Welcome
Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to our
usual jewish/Zionist sources.
Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.
Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.
Name Town District Region
Country Bday Source
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of victims from Germany
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of deportation from Berlin
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1905 list of deportation from Berlin
It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions with
louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
confessors. There are no written orders for
extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration camps
show no smoke and flames
belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and records
show there was not enough coke or
crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessors
lied about how many minutes it takes
to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount of
carbon monoxide to kill a human. If
the Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal fired
train into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed
'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from the
crematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhus
epidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving of
heads and requisitions for tons of
Zyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messy
method for extermination.
http://www.vho.org/
The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open Debate
The Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,
impractical/impossible, malicious
atrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler and
perpetrated by Jews, who were always
looking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews have
extorted billions from the US Treasury,
Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoax
fraud. The Holohoax also makes
those who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting the
demon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler take
on Stalin alone.
A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate.
A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungary
in July 1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.
She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gas
chambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassing
stories only later. [15]
Inmates Released
More than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,
and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. In
addition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences were
released, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz had
actually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans have
released inmates who "knew" what was happening there?
Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced
The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died in
German work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.
Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hunger
caused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of her
infrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realize
that
the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 until
the end of the war.
That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years ago
international Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -
apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)
Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation
as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that
food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German
transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on
March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter
Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German
Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation
system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany
were becoming inevitable.
"Yisroel Markov" <ey.m...@MUNGiname.com wrote in message
news:c58u72tfjrt2dafgr...@4ax.com...
UK to Israeli Profs: Class Dismissed
------------------------------------
The weird movement to boycott Israeli academics
By Ari Paul
NOTHING WEIRD , THE WEIRD IS THE STANDING BACK, COWERING AND ACTUALLY
ALLOWING THE PAMPERED AND EGOTISTICAL JEWISH/ZIONIST/ISRAELI ACADEMICS
BLUFF THEM INTO
NOT CONTRADICTING ALL THE LIES THEY HAVE ACTUALLY MADE A PART OF WWII
HISTORY AND ALLOWED AND SUPPORTED THE JAILING OF JEWISH AND NONJEWISH
HISTORIANS DOING NO MORE THAN THEIR JOB BY MAKING AN HONEST EVALUATION OF
THE HOLOCAUST CLAIMS AS NOT SUPPORTED BY HISTORICAL FACT.
AND THESE GUTLESS ACADEMICS IN SO DOING ARE SUPPORTING THE LIES AND
PROPAGANDA SPREAD BY ZIONISTS / ISRAEL AND
SUPPORTERS WHO BY THE WAY ARE NOT EITHER LOYAL CITIZENS TO OUR WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES OR HONEST MEN/WOMEN TO SUPPORT SUCH LIES.
BY THEIR SILENCE ALLOWING THESE FRAUDS TO ENJOY A GOOD LIVING WHILE ON
THESE LIES AND BY THEIR INACTION PERSECUTING HONEST
ACADEMICS IN THEIR HONEST ENDEAVOURS.
The Israel Lobby John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET
The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record:
A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpah
Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University is currently best known
for
his advocacy of the "most excruciating" torture against terrorist suspects
such as a "needle being shoved under the fingernails." The alleged purpose
of this torture is to extract a truthful confession but its real
consequence, as human rights organizations have pointed out, is to produce
whatever statements are necessary to end the suffering.
HOWEVER THE FIRST THING THE EUROPEAN FOUND ON ARRIVING IN ANY OF THE WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES WAS THAT THE WATER HAD BEEN NICELY MUDDIED SO THAT WHEN YOU
INNOCENTLY CAME OUT WITH THE TRUTH AS YOU KNEW IT IN EUROPE HAVING LIVED
THROUGH IT, YOU WERE TOLD THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
AND HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE NAZIS BECAUSE THE JEWISH GROCERS AUNTY TOLD
HER ALL ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .
"Another Frenchman, Paul Rassinier, a pre-war communist and later a
socialist, had been a member of the French Resistance. He was arrested and
interned in concentration camps, among them Buchenwald. In 1948 he published
a book Crossing the Line, in which he argued that people might have been
killed in concentration camps, but that the perpetrators had acted on their
own, not on orders from headquarters.
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A4.html
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/articles/HowWarsBegin.html
http://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/part-6.html
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_Rassinier
(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013
http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm
AS WITH ABU GRAIB.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/slavery.htm
http://www.blacksandjews.com/Jews_and_Slavery.htmlhttp://www.realjewnews.com/?p=99President
Andrew Jackson, the only one of our presidents whose administration totally
abolished the National Debt, condemned the international bankers as a "den
of vipers" which he was determined to "rout out" of the fabric of American
life. Jackson claimed that if only the American people understood how these
vipers operated on the American scene "there would a revolution before
morning." http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=99
In 1828, immediately upon his election as the new President of the US,
President Andrew Jackson began an investigation of the Second Bank of the
United States. President Jackson argued that the bank was privately owned
with stockholders from foreign nations who had political agendas at odds
with the United States. President Jackson, an avowed Christian, is known for
these famous words against the Rothschilds:
- "You are a den of thieves vipers, and I intend to rout you out, and by the
Eternal God, I will rout you out." -
Published: 12.21.06, 23:35 / Israel Opinion
In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those
holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of
Jewish origin. ... In a fascinating lecture at a Tel Aviv University
convention this week, Dr. Halfin described the waves of soviet terror as
a
"carnival of mass murder," "fantasy of purges", and "essianism of evil."
-------------------
Meanwhile,
The "Jewish world" had a goal of "bringing the Third Reich to its
knees",
in 1933:
And as one looks at the history of Europeans and the jews it becomes clear
that it was just a rehearsal for the indigenous people of Americas . Defeat
the leaders, chiefs, royal families and the whole group is yours.
How? Easy, introduce The secret police? cruelty, repression, and greed.
In this economic recovery Hitler hit upon something which helped to arouse
the everlasting hatred of the international banking community: instead of
basing Germany's recovery on enormous loans from foreign and local banks,
Hitler based the German economy on a barter system, by which he could get
much of what he needed by exchanging German surplus for the surplus of other
countries - in common language, by swapping.
The next radical change Hitler brought about was to take the right to print
money away from private banking institutions - which he viewed as Jewish -
and restored the sole right to print money to the German state itself (it is
interesting to compare the contemporary systems in both Britain and America,
where consortiums of private bankers - the Federal Reserve in America and
the Bank of England - print the money and then "sell" it to the governments,
incurring the massive national debts of these countries).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyBMuSYLGk
Rothschilds and Rockefellers are attacking the USA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N_bhyg2gdM (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW7mGKlhQPU (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xagETdMLyLo (part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObPPnH_jA3U (Part 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-RvhDbBI1w (Part 5)
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/prvisit.htm#VISITING
The political has nothing in common with the moral . . . Our right lies in
force . . . Violence must be the principle and a cunning make-believe the
rule if we are to bring all governments into subjection to our super
government".
"The French Revolution was wholly the work of our hands. . . We were the
first to cry among the masses the words Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, since
many times repeated by stupid poll-parrots. This helped us to destroy the
natural aristocracy of the goyim, on whose ruins we have set up the
aristocracy of our educated class headed by the aristocracy of money. . .
Our subordinate agents are boring away at the last remnants of goy
authority, striving to overthrow all established forms of order. . ."
http://www.eaazi.org/ThorsProvoni/JudoniaComplete/JudoniaCompleteA.htm
START TWO
http://www.adolfthegreat.com/Trails-Trivia/trivia-JewsForHitler.html
The Zionist Jew, Georg Kareski, repeatedly urged the Nazi government
to introduce a Jewish Star of David, to be worn by Jews. Eventually
his suggestion was accepted and On October 1939 it was ordered (by
Chief of Defense Canaris) that this measure should be introduced in
the General Government, and on September 15, 1941 it was ordered for
the entire Reich.
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YaZBXd-peo
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/Zundel1/transport.htm
England's Lord Shawcross, her most famous legal mind, stated in 1984. ''I
have come to the realization that Hitler did not want war. It was us who
declared war .'', etc. ad nauseum. His admission of historical truth was
subsequently swept under the rug, never to be repeated in public print
again.
"Johannes von Ebersdorf" <eber...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:1cg9l4du7o6626fcr...@4ax.com...
� On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:32:37 -0700, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 08:00:35 -0500, "Johnny Asia"
<bardi...@mypacks.net wrote:
Winston Churchill: "You must understand that this war is not against
Hitler
or National Socialism, but against the strength of the German people,
which
is to be smashed once and for all, regardless of whether it is in the
hands
of Hitler or a Jesuit priest."
Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill
- His Career in War and Peace, p. 145
The Origins of World War 2
The unexpected views of four key diplomats who were close to events
Just consider the following:
Joseph P. Kennedy, U.S. Ambassador to Britain during the years
immediately
preceding WW2 was the father of the famous American Kennedy dynasty.
James
Forrestal the first US Secretary of Defense (1947-1949) quotes him as
saying
"Chamberlain (the British Prime Minister) stated that America and the
world
Jews had forced England into the war." (The Forrestal Diaries ed.
Millis,
Cassell 1952, p129).
Count Jerzy Potocki, the Polish Ambassador in Washington, in a report
to the
Polish Foreign Office in January 1939, is quoted approvingly by the
highly
respected British military historian Major-General JFC Fuller.
Concerning
public opinion in America he says "Above all, propaganda here is
entirely in
Jewish hands .. when bearing public ignorance in mind, their
propaganda is
so effective that people have no real knowledge of the true state of
affairs
in Europe .. It is interesting to observe that in this carefully
thought-out
campaign .. no reference at all is made to Soviet Russia. If that
country is
mentioned, it is referred to in a friendly manner and people are given
the
impression that Soviet Russia is part of the democratic group of
countries..
Jewry was able not only to establish a dangerous centre in the New
World for
the dissemination of hatred and enmity, but it also succeeded in
dividing
the world into two warlike camps .. President Roosevelt has been given
the
power.. to create huge reserves in armaments for a future war which
the Jews
are deliberately heading for." (Fuller, JFC: The Decisive Battles of
the
Western World vol 3 pp 372-374.)
Hugh Wilson, the American Ambassador in Berlin until 1938, the year
before
the war broke out, found anti-Semitism in Germany understandable. This
was
because before the advent of the Nazis, "the stage, the press,
medicine and
law [were] crowded with Jews..among the few with money to splurge, a
high
proportion [were] Jews..the leaders of the Bolshevist movement in
Russia, a
movement desperately feared in Germany, were Jews. One could feel the
spreading resentment and hatred." (Hugh Wilson: Diplomat between the
Wars,
Longmans 1941, quoted in Leonard Mosley, Lindbergh, Hodder 1976).
Sir Nevile Henderson, British Ambassador in Berlin, 'said further that
the
hostile attitude in Great Britain was the work of Jews and enemies of
the
Nazis, which was what Hitler thought himself." (Taylor, AJP: The
Origins of
the Second World War Penguin 1965, 1987 etc p 324).
Is all of this merely attributable to antisemitism?
The economic background to the war is necessary for a fuller
understanding,
before casting judgement on the originators of these viewpoints.
At the end of the First World War, Germany was essentially tricked
[see Paul
Johnson "A History of the Modern World" (1983) p24 and H Nicholson
Peacemaking 1919 (1933) pp13-16] into paying massive reparations to
France
and other economic competitors and former belligerent countries in
terms of
the so-called Treaty of Versailles, thanks to the liberal American
President
Woodrow Wilson. Germany was declared to be solely responsible for the
war,
in spite of the fact that "Germany did not plot a European war, did
not want
one, and made genuine efforts, though too belated, to avert one."
(Professor
Sydney B Fay The Origins of the World War (vol. 2 p 552)).
� "As a result of these massive enforced financial reparations, by 1923
the
situation in Germany became desperate and inflation on an astronomical
scale
became the only way out for the government. Printing presses were
engaged to
print money around the clock. In 1921 the exchange rate was 75 marks
to the
dollar. By 1924 this had become about 5 trillion marks to the dollar.
This
virtually destroyed the German middle class, reducing any bank savings
to a
virtual zero." (Koestler The God that Failed p 28)
According to Sir Arthur Bryant the British historian (Unfinished
Victory
(1940 pp. 136-144):
"It was the Jews with their international affiliations and their
hereditary
flair for finance who were best able to seize such opportunities. They
did
so with such effect that, even in November 1938, after five years of
anti-Semitic legislation and persecution, they still owned, according
to the
Times correspondent in Berlin, something like a third of the real
property
in the Reich. Most of it came into their hands during the inflation.
But to
those who had lost their all this bewildering transfer seemed a
monstrous
injustice. After prolonged sufferings they had now been deprived of
their
last possessions. They saw them pass into the hands of strangers, many
of
whom had not shared their sacrifices and who cared little or nothing
for
their national standards and traditions. The Jews obtained a wonderful
ascendancy in politics, business and the learned professions (in spite
of
constituting) less than one percent of the population. The banks,
including
the Reichsbank and the big private banks, were practically controlled
by
them. So were the publishing trade, the cinema, the theatres and a
large
part of the press all the normal means, in fact, by which public
opinion in
a civilized country is formed. The largest newspaper combine in the
country
with a daily circulation of four millions was a Jewish monopoly. Every
year
it became harder and harder for a gentile to gain or keep a foothold
in any
privileged occupation. At this time it was not the 'Aryans' who
exercised
racial discrimination. It was a discrimination that operated without
violence. It was exercised by a minority against a majority. There was
no
persecution, only elimination. It was the contrast between the wealth
enjoyed and lavishly displayed by aliens of cosmopolitan tastes, and
the
poverty and misery of native Germans, that has made anti-Semitism so
dangerous and ugly a force in the new Europe. Beggars on horseback are
seldom popular, least of all with those whom they have just thrown out
of
the saddle."
Goodness gracious, Sir Arthur! What made you get out of the wrong side
of
the bed?
Strangely enough, a book unexpectedly published by Princeton
University
Press in 1984, Sarah Gordon (Hitler, Germans and the "Jewish
Question")
essentially confirms what Bryant says. According to her, "Jews were
never a
large percentage of the total German population; at no time did they
exceed
1% of the population during the years 1871-1933." But she adds "Jews
were
over-represented in business, commerce, and public and private
service. They
were especially visible in private banking in Berlin, which in 1923
had 150
private Jewish banks, as opposed to only 11 private non-Jewish banks.
They
owned 41% of iron and scrap iron firms and 57% of other metal
businesses.
Jews were very active in the stock market, particularly in Berlin,
where in
1928 they comprised 80% of the leading members of the stock exchange.
By
1933, when the Nazis began eliminating Jews from prominent positions,
85% of
the brokers on the Berlin Stock exchange were dismissed because of
their
'race'. At least a quarter of full professors and instructors (at
German
universities) had Jewish origins. In 1905-6 Jewish students comprised
25% of
the law and medical students. In 1931, 50% of the 234 theatre
directors in
Germany were Jewish, and in Berlin the number was 80%. In 1929 it was
estimated that the per capita income of Jews in Berlin was twice that
of
other Berlin residents." etc etc.
Arthur Koestler confirms the Jewish over-involvement in German
publishing.
"Ullstein's was a kind of super-trust; the largest organization of its
kind
in Europe, and probably In the world. They published four daily papers
in
Berlin alone, among these the venerable Vossische Zeitung, founded in
the
eighteenth century, and the B.Z. am Mittag, an evening paper. Apart
from
these, Ullstein's published more than a dozen weekly and monthly
periodicals, ran their own news service, their own travel agency,
etc., and
were one of the leading book publishers. The firm was owned by the
brothers
Ullstein - they were five, like the original Rothschild brothers, and
like
them also, they were Jews." (The God that Failed (1950) ed. RHS
Crossman, p
31).
Edgar Mowrer, Berlin correspondent for the Chicago Daily News, wrote
an
anti-German tract called Germany Puts the Clock Back (published as a
Penguin
Special and reprinted five times between December 1937 and April
1938). He
nevertheless notes "In the all-important administration of Prussia,
any
number of strategic positions came into the hands of Hebrews. A
telephone
conversation between three Jews in Ministerial offices could result in
the
suspension of any periodical or newspaper in the state. The Jews came
in
Germany to play in politics and administration that same considerable
part
that they had previously won by open competition in business, trade,
banking, the Press, the arts, the sciences and the intellectual and
cultural
life of the country. And thereby the impression was strengthened that
Germany, a country with a mission of its own, had fallen into the
hands of
foreigners."
Mowrer says "No one who lived through the period from 1919 to 1926 is
likely
to forget the sexual promiscuity that prevailed. Throughout a town
like
Berlin, hotels and pensions made vast fortunes by letting rooms by the
hour
or day to baggageless, unregistered guests. Hundreds of cabarets,
pleasure
resorts and the like served for purposes of getting acquainted and
acquiring
the proper mood." (pp. 153-4). Bryant describes throngs of child
prostitutes
outside the doors of the great Berlin hotels and restaurants. He adds
"Most
of them (the night clubs and vice-resorts) were owned and managed by
Jews.
And it was the Jews. among the promoters of this trade who were
remembered
in after years." (pp. 144-5).
Douglas Reed, Chief Central European correspondent before WWII for the
London Times, was profoundly anti-German and anti-Hitler. But
nevertheless
he reported: "I watched the Brown Shirts going from shop to shop with
paint
pots and daubing on the window panes the word 'Jew', in dripping red
letters. The Kurf�rstendamm was to me a revelation. I knew that Jews
were
prominent in business life, but I did not know that they almost
monopolized
important branches of it. Germany had one Jew to one hundred gentiles,
said
the statistics; but the fashionable Kurf�rstendamm, according to the
dripping red legends, had about one gentile shop to ninety-nine Jewish
ones." (Reed Insanity Fair (1938) p. 152-3). In Reed's book Disgrace
Abounding of the following year he notes "In the Berlin (of pre-Hitler
years) most of the theatres were Jewish-owned or Jewish-leased, most
of the
leading film and stage actors were Jews, the plays performed were
often by
German, Austrian or Hungarian Jews and were staged by Jewish film
producers,
applauded by Jewish dramatic critics in Jewish newspapers. The Jews
are not
cleverer than the Gentiles, if by clever you mean good at their jobs.
They
ruthlessly exploit the common feeling of Jews, first to get a foothold
in a
particular trade or calling, then to squeeze the non-Jews out of it.
� It is
not true that Jews are better journalists than Gentiles. They held all
the
posts on those Berlin papers because the proprietors and editors were
Jewish" (pp238-9).
The Jewish writer Edwin Black notes "For example, in Berlin alone,
about 75%
of the attorneys and nearly as many of the doctors were Jewish."
(Black, The
Transfer Agreement (1984) p58.
To cap it all, Jews were perceived as dangerous enemies of Germany
after
Samuel Untermeyer, the leader of the World Jewish Economic Federation,
declared war on Germany on August 6 1933. (Edwin Black The Transfer
Agreement: the Untold Story of the Secret Pact between the Third Reich
and
Palestine (1984) pp272-277) According to Black, "The one man who most
embodied the potential death blow to Germany was Samuel Untermeyer."
(p
369). This was the culmination of a worldwide boycott of German goods
led by
international Jewish organizations. The London Daily Express on March
24,
1933 carried the headline "Judea Declares War on Germany". The boycott
was
particularly motivated by the German imposition of the Nuremberg Laws,
which
ironically were similar in intent and content to the Jewish cultural
exclusivism practiced so visibly in present-day Israel (Hannah Arendt
Eichmann in Jerusalem p 7).
Hitler saw the tremendous danger posed to Germany by Communism. He
appreciated the desperate need to eliminate this threat, a fact that
earned
him the immense hatred and animosity of the Jewish organisations and
the
media and politicians of the west which they could influence. After
all,
according to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant, although Jews formed
less than
five percent of Russia's population, they formed more than fifty
percent of
its revolutionaries. According to the Jewish writer Chaim Bermant in
his
book The Jews (1977, chapter 8):
"It must be added that most of the leading revolutionaries who
convulsed
Europe in the final decades of the last century and the first decades
of
this one, stemmed from prosperous Jewish families. They were perhaps
typified by the father of revolution, Karl Marx. Thus when, after the
chaos
of World War I, revolutions broke out all over Europe, Jews were
everywhere
at the helm; Trotsky, Sverdlov, Kamenev and Zinoviev in Russia, Bela
Kun in
Hungary, Kurt Eisner in Bavaria, and, most improbable of all, Rosa
Luxemburg
in Berlin.
"To many outside observers, the Russian revolution looked like a
Jewish
conspiracy, especially when it was followed by Jewish-led
revolutionary
outbreaks in much of central Europe. The leadership of the Bolshevik
Party
had a preponderance of Jews. Of the seven members of the Politburo,
the
inner cabinet of the country, four, Trotsky (Bronstein), Zinoviev
(Radomsky), Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Sverdlov, were Jews." Other
authors
agree with this:
"There has been a tendency to circumvent or simply ignore the
significant
role of Jewish intellectuals in the German Communist Party, and
thereby
seriously neglect one of the genuine and objective reasons for
increased
anti-Semitism during and after World War 1. The prominence of Jews in
the
revolution and early Weimar Republic is indisputable, and this was a
very
serious contributing cause for increased anti-Semitism in post-war
years. It
is clear then that the stereotype of Jews as socialists and
communists. led
many Germans to distrust the Jewish minority as a whole and to brand
Jews as
enemies of the German nation." (Sarah Gordon, "Hitler, Germans and the
Jewish Question", Princeton University Press (1984) p 23).
"The second paroxysm of strong anti-Semitism came after the critical
role of
Jews in International Communism and the Russian Revolution and during
the
economic crises of the 1920s and 30s.. Anti-Semitism intensified
throughout
Europe and North America following the perceived and actual centrality
of
Jews in the Russian Revolution. Such feelings were not restricted to
Germany, or to vulgar extremists like the Nazis. All over Northern
Europe
and North America, anti-Semitism became the norm in 'nice society',
and
'nice society' included the universities." (Martin Bernal, Black
Athena vol.
1 pp. 367, 387).
"The major role Jewish leaders played in the November (Russian)
revolution
was probably more important than any other factor in confirming
(Hitler's)
anti-Semitic beliefs." (J&S Pool, Who Financed Hitler, p.164).
Hitler came to power in Germany with two main aims, the rectification
of the
unjust provisions of the Versailles Treaty, and the destruction of the
Soviet/Communist threat to Germany. Strangely enough, contrary to the
mythology created by those who had an opposing ethnic agenda, he had
no
plans or desire for a larger war of conquest. Professor AJP Taylor
showed
this in his book The Origins of the Second World War, to the
disappointment
of the professional western political establishment. Taylor says, "The
state
of German armament in 1939 gives the decisive proof that Hitler was
not
contemplating general war, and probably not intending war at all"
(p.267),
and "Even in 1939 the German army was not equipped for a prolonged
war; and
in 1940 the German land forces were inferior to the French in
everything
except leadership" (p104-5). What occurred in Europe in 1939-41 was
the
result of unforeseen weaknesses and a tipping of the balance of power,
and
Hitler was an opportunist "who took advantages whenever they offered
themselves" (Taylor). Britain and France declared war on Germany, not
the
other way around. Hitler wanted peace with Britain, as the German
generals
admitted (Basil Liddell Hart, The Other Side of the Hill 1948, Pan
Books
1983) with regard to the so-called Halt Order at Dunkirk, where Hitler
had
the opportunity to capture the entire British Army, but chose not to.
Liddell Hart, one of Britain's most respected military historians,
quotes
the German General von Blumentritt with regard to this Halt Order:
"He (Hitler) then astonished us by speaking with admiration of the
British
Empire, of the necessity for its existence, and of the civilisation
that
Britain had brought into the world. He remarked, with a shrug of the
shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had been achieved by means
that
were often harsh, but 'where there is planing, there are shavings
flying'.
He compared the British Empire with the catholic Church saying they
were
both essential elements of stability in the world. He said that all he
wanted from Britain was that she should acknowledge Germany's position
on
the Continent. The return of Germany's colonies would be desirable but
not
essential, and he would even offer to support Britain with troops if
she
should be involved in difficulties anywhere." (p 200).
According to Liddell Hart, "At the time we believed that the repulse
of the
Luftwaffe in the "Battle over Britain" had saved her. That is only
part of
the explanation, the last part of it. The original cause, which goes
much
deeper, is that Hitler did not want to conquer England. He took little
interest in the invasion preparations, and for weeks did nothing
tospur them
on; then, after a brief impulse to invade, he veered around again and
suspended the preparations. He was preparing, instead, to invade
Russia"
(p140).
David Irving in the foreword to his book The Warpath (1978) refers to
"the
discovery, that at no time did this man (Hitler) pose or intend a real
threat to Britain or the Empire."
This gives a completely different complexion, not only to the war, but
to
the successful suppression of this information during the war and
afterwards. Historians today know only too well where the boundaries
lie
within which they can paint their pictures of the war and its
aftermath, and
the consequences of venturing beyond those boundaries, irrespective of
the
evidence. Unfortunately, only too few of them have been prepared to
have the
courage to break out of this dreadful straitjacket of official and
unofficial censorship.
E-mail comment received:
I worked and studied in Berlin for three years, have an MA in
International Relations and a BA in Government with a minor in
History. I am
embarrassed to say that until I read this article, I had no idea of
the
scope and cause for the anti-Semitism in Germany before WWII. The Halt
Order
at Dunkirk was never mentioned in my studies, nor was the ownership of
the
media, banks and businesses.
Thank you for the excellent article. It certainly gives me a new
perspective. I have always questioned the actual numbers of Jewish
victims
of the concentration camps, as the numbers didn't make sense based
upon
Germany's population. Perhaps it was fear of failing or being labeled
an
anti-Semite by my history professors (all but two were Jewish) and
classmates that I refrained from demanding an honest discussion during
my
classes. I once said that the only reason Israel existed was out of
Holocaust guilt, and I was immediately labeled a terrorist
sympathizer.
I see what is now happening in Israel and I am aghast. The
parallels
to WW II are frightening. Even today, one cannot bring up this subject
without being labeled a Holocaust denier or white supremacist.
Thanks again for an excellent article. I am forwarding it to
several
friends.
JBP
Winston Churchill: "You must understand that this war is not against
Hitler
or National Socialism, but against the strength of the German people,
which
is to be smashed once and for all, regardless of whether it is in the
hands
of Hitler or a Jesuit priest."
Emrys Hughes, Winston Churchill - His Career in War and Peace, p. 145
The bloated drunk Winston Churchill vowed to fight 'to the last
American". Now the British Isles are a third-world cesspool with
small pockets of green-toothed Brits still wrapping themselves in the
Union Jack.
Britain is now far too weak to play its traditional "balance of power"
shit disturber role in Europe. The destruction of the British Empire
was the only good thing to come from WW2.
ed
"Johannes von Ebersdorf" <eber...@gmail.com wrote in message
news:88g9l4p0ul0kliu9l...@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 17:48:52 GMT, David Johnston <da...@block.net
wrote:
Hitler did. He didn't take Poland because he wanted to avoid a war.
Hitler didn't "take" Poland. Poland was in possession of stolen German
property, and it was merely being recovered.
The war wasn't about Poland, especially given that the allies gave all
of it away to Stalin as part of the Yalta agreement.
WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;
Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,imprisoned or both for
discussing the topics set forth in this article.
http://judicial-inc.biz/Kristallnacht.htm
Kristallnacht
The real story
Some history leading up to Kristallnacht and WW 2
Amschel Rothschild finances the Bolshevik revolution
The three Jews Trotsky, Lenin and Stalin kill over twenty million
Russians who were opposing the Jewish swindle. Russian artists,
teachers, intellectuals, leaders are imprisoned and sent to the
Gulags.
In 1933 -34 the Ukraine farmers refused to turn their land over to the
communists and Stalin confiscated their crops and starved seven
million to death.
wpe108.jpg (9124 bytes)
Hitler blocks communism and Jews declare war on Germany
Hitler is in the way of Communism
wpeFE.jpg (2489 bytes)
Infuriated Jews declared war on Germany
wpeF9.jpg (26368 bytes)
Hitler stood alone and defiant against the tidal wave of Jewish
organized Communism then sweeping all before it. The Communists had
seized Russia and were at the bottom of civil unrest and revolution
throughout eastern Europe; Britain, France, - the Spanish Civil War -,
the British dominions and the United States.
Germany alone repelled and held in check this tidal wave of subversion
and insurrection.
Circumstances leading up to Kristallnacht
Herschel Grynszpan
wpeF5.jpg (3777 bytes)
A Jew assassinates a diplomat
Grynszpan was an 17 yr old unemployed Jew who was funded by LICRA (
Jewish activist group ). His father had been a tailor who had moved
from Poland to Germany. Herschel had a reputation for disliking work
and he hung out at the homes of his uncles in Brussels and Paris.
He checked into an expensive hotel just round the corner from the
offices of LICA.
On November 7 1938, Herschel Grynszpan walked into the German embassy
in Paris and shot Ernst vom Rath, a German diplomat, five times.
LICA at once hired one of the foremost barristers in Paris, and paid
his legal costs when he was arrested.
wpeF8.jpg (3083 bytes) Ernst vom Rath
Was a 31 yr old German diplomat in Paris.
Grynszpan was arrested
wpeF6.jpg (4305 bytes) Grynszpan was arrested at the scene and was
taken to a police station. Although he was a totally obscure Polish
Jew
with no money and no apparent supporters, nevertheless one of France's
most famous lawyers, Moro Giafferi, appeared at the police station a
few hours after the shooting and told the police that he was
Grynszpan's attorney
Famous lawyer ( Moro Giafferi ) mysteriously appears
wpeF7.jpg (2288 bytes)
Moro Giafferi turns out to be the legal counsel of the LICA which was
founded in Paris in 1933 by the Jew Bernard Lecache and operated as a
militant propaganda organization .
Another assassination
In February 1936 Giafferi represented the Jew David Frankfurter who
had
shot and killed Wilhelm Gustloff, the head of the Swiss branch of the
German National Socialist Party. During the subsequent trial it was
clearly established that Frankfurter had been a hired murderer with
backed by LICRA.
Grynszpan survives the war and lives in Paris supported by LICRA
LICRA
wpeF6.jpg (3187 bytes)
Grynszpan survived the war and returned to Paris where he was
supported
by LICRA and was never charged.
Bernard Lecache - LICRA founder
wpe100.jpg (2347 bytes) Grynszpan family recieved a vast sum and
papers to Palestine from LICRA
What Really Happened During the Crystal Night
wpeFC.jpg (11969 bytes)
Provocateurs appear in border towns
wpeED.jpg (4105 bytes) On 8 November 1938, one day before the Crystal
Night, strange persons who had never been seen there before suddenly
appeared in several small towns in Hessen near the French-German
border. They went to mayors, Kreisleiters (district Party leaders) and
other important officials in these towns and asked them what actions
were being planned against the Jews. The officials were rather
startled
by these questions and replied that they didn't know of any such
plans.
The strangers acted as if they were shocked to hear this. They shouted
and complained that something had to be done against the Jews and
then,
without further explanation, they disappeared.
They usually regarded the strangers as crazy anti-Semites and promptly
forgot about the incidents - until the next evening. Some of these
apparently crazy individuals really outdid themselves.
Provocateurs dress as SS
wpeEF.jpg (2292 bytes) In one case two men, dressed as members of the
SS, went to an SA Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) and ordered him to
destroy the nearby synagogue. To understand the absurdity of this one
must know that the SS and SA were completely separate organizations. A
real SS member would never have tried to give orders to an SA unit.
This case shows that the strangers were foreigners who did not even
understand the distinctions of German authority. The SA
Standartenfuehrer rejected the demands of the self-styled SS men and
reported the incident to his superiors.
Strangers giving speeches
wpeFB.jpg (5701 bytes) When the provocateurs realized that their
efforts were not working with local officials, they changed their
tactics. Instead they tried to incite directly the people in the
streets. In another town, for example, two men appeared at the market
place and began making speeches to the people there, trying to incite
them against the Jews. Eventually some people did indeed storm the
synagogue, but by then the two provocateurs had, of course,
disappeared. Similar incidents occurred in several towns.
Unidentified strangers suddenly appeared, gave speeches, started
throwing stones at windows, stormed Jewish buildings, schools,
hospitals, and synagogues, and then disappeared.
These unusual incidents had already started on the 8th of November,
that is, before Ernst vom Rath was dead. His death was only reported
late on the evening of the 9th. The fact that this strange pattern of
incidents had already begun one day earlier proves that the death of
vom Rath was not the reason for the Crystal Night outburst. Vom Rath
was still alive when the pogrom began.
These were methodical thugs and not enraged citizens
wpe102.jpg (1793 bytes) Well organized and widespread incidents began
on the evening of 9 November. Groups of generally five or six young
men, armed with bars and clubs, went down the streets smashing store
windows. They were not Jew-hating SA men, enraged over the murder of a
German diplomat. They operated too methodically to have been motivated
by anger.
They carried out their work without any apparent emotion. Nonetheless,
it was their destruction
that encouraged certain other individuals from the lowest social
classes to become a mob and continue the destruction.
All one can learn from history writers is that "all" synagogues were
demolished and that "all" shop windows were destroyed. Aside from this
vague description, one is given almost no details.
Jews fought off attacks
History writers tell us that during the Crystal Night all the Jews
were
frightened, meekly accepted whatever happened to them and watched the
destruction of their property with no resistance. The contrary is
true.
While going through the files on this subject, I found many documents
which report precisely just the opposite of what is claimed. The fact
is that in many cases Jews and their German neighbors fought together
against the attackers, pushing them down staircases. Street mobs were
beaten up and chased away in more than one case.
Police on side of Jews
SA officers stood watch preventing attacks
Police and Party officials were generally on the side of the Jews.
Some
Jewish community leaders went to police stations the next morning and
asked the police to investigate the damage done to their synagogues.
The resulting police reports are still available in the files today.
wpeEF.jpg (4518 bytes)
Jews weren't phased by attacks
wpeF7.jpg (5870 bytes) Also contrary to what we have been told, most
Jews were not directly affected by these events. In Berlin, for
example, all of the teachers and pupils of the city's largest Jewish
school, which served the entire Berlin area, appeared in their classes
the next morning without having noticed anything unusual during the
previous night.
Heinemann Stern, the Jewish principal of that school, wrote in his
postwar memoirs that he noticed a burning synagogue on his way to the
school on the morning after the Crystal Night, but he thought it was
just an accidental fire.
It was only after he arrived at the school that he received a
telephone
call informing him of the destruction of the previous night. He then
went on with his classes of the day and only during the first recess
did he take the trouble to inform the entire student body about what
had happened.
Jewish historians rewrote history
Historians wrote: "Every single Jew was beaten, chased, robbed,
insulted and humiliated. The SA tore the Jews from their beds,
mercilessly beat them in their apartments and then ... chased them
almost to death ... Blood flowed everywhere."
[9] Is it conceivable that thousands of Jewish children would be have
been sent to school by their parents on the morning after that fateful
night if the attacks against Jews had been so horrific or extensive?
Would any parents have let their children go to school if they had
thought there was even the slightest danger of them being attacked by
roving gangs of SA men? I think the answer is clearly no!
Who Could the Provocateurs Have Been?
In the wake of the Crystal Night, almost everyone wanted to know who
the culprits were. Dr. Goebbels expressed his suspicion that a secret
organization must have instigated the entire affair. He simply could
not believe that anything so well organized could have been a
spontaneous popular outburst.
Apparently to avoid internal wrangling and the harm that this would do
to their public image, an investigation to determine the instigators
never took place. Hitler believed that Dr. Goebbels, his closest
confidant and the one man he could never abandon, had been the
instigator.
The only persons actually punished were individual SA men who had
participated directly in the pogrom and been accused in German courts
of murder, assault, looting or other criminal acts by Jewish or German
witnesses to these crimes. But before any of these cases ever actually
came to trail, Hitler issued a special decree ordering the
postponement
of all such cases until after the accused individuals were first
prosecuted by the Supreme Party Court, an internal court concerned
with
discipline within the National Socialist Party organization.
Mystery phone calls to local town officials
wpe103.jpg (1679 bytes) Several district and local Party leaders
(Kreisleiters and Ortsgruppenleiters) were awakened from their sleep
in
the middle of the night by telephone calls. Someone claiming to be
from
the regional Party headquarters or the regional Party propaganda
bureau
(Gauleitung or Gaupropagandaleitung) would ask what was happening in
the official's town or city. If the Party official answered "Nothing,
everything is quiet," the telephone caller would then say in German
slang that he had received an order to the effect that the Jews were
going to get it tonight and that the respective official should carry
out the order.
In most cases the Party leader, disturbed from his sleep, did not even
understand what had happened. Some simply dismissed the call as a joke
and went back to bed.
Others called back the office from where the telephone voice had
pretended to be calling. If they managed to reach someone in charge,
they were often told that nobody knew anything about such a call. But
if they reached only a lower official they were often told: "Well, if
you got that order, you'd better go ahead and do what you were told."
These telephone calls caused considerable confusion. All this came out
months later during the trials conducted by the Supreme Party Court.
The Chief Judge concluded that in every case a misunderstanding had
arisen in one link or other of the chain of command. But when they
were
confronted with apparently genuine orders to organize demonstrations
against the Jews that night, most of the Party leaders had simply not
known what to do.
Obviously a group of centrally organized thugs
The pattern of seemingly sporadic anti-Jewish incidents in small
towns,
followed only later by a carefully planned outburst in many large
cities throughout Germany, clearly suggests the work of a centrally
organized group of well-trained agents. Even shortly after the Crystal
Night, many leading Party officials suspected that the entire affair
had been centrally coordinated. Significantly, even Hermann Graml, the
only West German historian who has written in detail about the Crystal
Night, carefully distinguished between provocateurs and people who
were
simply carried away by their emotions and spontaneously took part in
the riot and destruction.
The timing was perfect
Most party officials were at a commemoration at the Alte Rathaus in
Munich
wpeF5.jpg (5381 bytes)
Munich on the Ninth of November
While all this was happening across the Reich, a special annual
commemoration was being held in Munich. Fifteen years earlier, on 9
November 1923, a movement led by Adolph Hitler, Erich von Ludendorff
(a
leading First World War General), and two major figures in the
Bavarian
government tried to depose the legal government and take
responsibility
themselves as a new national government. wpeF6.jpg (2743 bytes)
Feldherrnhalle
wpeF1.jpg (8854 bytes) The uprising or putsch was put down and 16
rebels were shot down next to the Feldherrnhalle, a famous old
monument
building in central Munich. Accordingly, the 9th of November had been
commemorated every year since 1933 as the memorial day for the
martyred
heroes of the National Socialist movement. Adolph Hitler and the Party
veterans, as well as all of the Gauleiters (regional Party leaders)
met
every year in Munich for the occasion. Hitler would usually deliver a
speech to a select audience of Party veterans at the famous
Buergerbraeukeller restaurant on the evening of the 8th.
Hitler and veterans reenact
On the morning of the 9th Hitler and his veteran comrades would
reenact
the 1923 "March to the Feldherrnhalle."
wpeF7.jpg (3902 bytes)
wpeF0.jpg (3689 bytes) SS ceremony
On the evening of the 9th the Fuehrer always held an informal dinner
at
the Old Town Hall ("Alte Rathaus") with old comrades as well as all
the
Gauleiters. At midnight young men who were about to enter the SS and
the SA were sworn in at the Feldherrnhalle.
All of the Gauleiters and other guests participated in this very
solemn
ceremony. After it was over they left Munich and returned to their
homes throughout the Reich.
Gaulieters not at posts
It is clear that the 9th of November date was chosen very cleverly.
The
annual commemoration ceremony of that day insured that almost all of
the Gauleiters would be away from their home offices when the
anti-Jewish demonstrations began. In other words, the actual
decision-making responsibilities that were normally carried out by the
Gauleiters were temporarily in the hands of lower-ranking individuals
with less experience.
Between 8 and 10 November, subordinate officials stood in for the
Gauleiters who were either in Munich or en route to or from the annual
commemoration there. This temporary transfer of decision-making
authority is very important because it contributed to much of the
subsequent confusion and thus helped the provocateurs. Another
contributing factor was the fact that no one expected any trouble. At
that time Germany was one of the most peaceful countries in the world.
There was no reason to expect any kind of unrest. It was only during
dinner at the Old Town Hall that the first sporadic reports of riot
and
destruction reached Munich from some of the Gauleiter's home offices.
At the same time it was learned that Ernst vom Rath had died in Paris
from his wounds.
What Was Goebbels Doing?
wpeF2.jpg (2300 bytes) After the dinner was over, the Fuehrer left at
about 9 p.m. and returned to his apartment. Dr. Goebbels then stood up
and spoke briefly about the latest news. He informed the audience that
vom Rath had died and that, as a result, anti-Jewish demonstrations
had
spontaneously broken out in two or three places. Goebbels was renowned
for his passionate and inspiring speeches. But what he gave that
evening was not a speech at all but only a short and very informal
announcement.
He suggested that the Gauleiters and the head of the SA, Viktor Lutze,
should contact their home offices to make sure that peace and order
were being maintained.
You may have heard the widespread allegation that Goebbels started the
Crystal Night pogrom with a fiery speech on that evening of 9
November.
This widely accepted story is false. The following facts will clarify
this point:
As Gauleiter for Berlin, Dr. Goebbels had no authority outside of his
Berlin district. Although he was also the Propaganda Minister of the
German government, this did not give him any authority over Party
officials. Furthermore, he had no authority whatsoever over the SA or
the SS.
Goebbels understood this damaged the Reich international standing
Of all the National Socialist leaders, Dr. Goebbels would have
understood better than anyone else the immense damage that an
anti-Jewish pogrom would cause for Germany. On the morning of 10
November, when he first learned about the extent of the damage and
destruction of the previous night, he was furious and shocked at the
stupidity of those who had participated.
How could a speech given after 9 p.m. on the evening of 9 November
have
possibly incited a "pogrom" which had already begun the day before
when
the first provocateurs appeared at municipal and Party offices to
persuade officials to take action against the Jews?
Gauleiters telephoned subordinates to maintain peace
The Gauleiters and the SA commander went to the telephones and
called
their respective home offices to order their subordinates to do
everything necessary to maintain peace and order. They emphasized that
under no circumstances must anyone take part in any demonstrations.
These telephone instructions were written down at the home offices by
whoever was on duty. The orders from each Gauleiter were then passed
on
by telex to other offices within the Gau or district. These telex
messages are still in various records files and are available to
anyone
who wishes to examine them.
Orders to Stop the Pogrom
wpeF5.jpg (3954 bytes) While the Gauleiters were calling their home
offices, the head of the SA, Viktor Lutze, ordered all of his
immediate
subordinates, the SA Gruppenfuehrers, who were together with him in
Munich, to call their home offices as well. Lutze ordered that under
no
circumstances could SA men take part in any demonstrations against
Jews, and that furthermore the SA was to intervene to stop any
demonstrations already in progress.
SA, Viktor Lutze gives orders to protect Jews
As a result of these strict orders, SA men began to guard Jewish
stores
that very night wherever windows had been broken. There is no doubt
about this order by Lutze because we have the postwar court testimony
of several witnesses confirming it. The SS and the police were given
similar orders to restore peace and order.
wpeFB.jpg (2954 bytes)
Heydrich orders SS to protect Jews
wpeFC.jpg (1558 bytes) Himmler ordered Reinhard Heydrich to prevent
all destruction of property and to protect Jews against demonstrators.
The telex communication of this order still exists. It is in the files
of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg.
However, during the Nuremberg trial this telex order was presented in
three different forms, with forged amendments to change the original
meaning.
In my book Feuerzeichen I undertook to restore the original text.
wpeED.jpg (6116 bytes)
Hitler was furious
wpeFE.jpg (2489 bytes) Adolf Hitler joined the midnight celebration at
the Feldherrnhalle. It was only after he returned to his apartment
about one o'clock in the morning that he learned about the
demonstrations which had been taking place in Munich, during which one
synagogue had been set on fire. He was furious and immediately ordered
the police chief of Munich to come see him. Hitler told him to
immediately stop the fire and to make sure that no other outrages took
place in Munich. He then called various police and Party officials
throughout the Reich to learn the extent of these demonstrations
Finally, he ordered a telex message sent to all Gauleiter offices. It
read: "By express order from the very highest authority, arson against
Jewish businesses or other property must in no case and under no
circumstances take place." Synagogues were not specifically mentioned,
apparently because Hitler was still unaware of the burning of
synagogues, apart from the one in Munich.
How Did the SA Get Involved Despite the Orders From Its Own Leaders?
According to the records, at least three of the 28 SA Groups did not
obey the orders of SA chief Lutze. Instead, they sent out their men to
destroy synagogues and Jewish buildings. In effect they did precisely
the opposite of what Lutze had ordered. What actually happened is
clear
from the testimony and evidence presented at postwar trials against
former SA men accused of participating in the riot.
Provocateurs sent messages to SA Brigade
wpeED.jpg (2921 bytes) The trials, held between 1946 and 1952, were
based to a large extent on the report of SA Brigade 50 chief Karl
Lucke
and begins with these words: "On 10 November 1938, at 3 o'clock in the
morning, I received the following order: 'By order of the
Gruppenfuehrer, all Jewish synagogues within the Brigade district are
to be immediately blown up or set on fire'." Lucke then included in
his
report a listing of synagogues which had been destroyed by members of
his Brigade.
This report has been cited by the prosecution at the Nuremberg
Tribunal
and by practically all of the consensus historians ever since as proof
that the SA was given orders to destroy Jewish stores and synagogues.
Lutze ordered the Group leaders to contact their home offices to stop
all anti-Jewish demonstrations, Fust, along with the other SA leaders,
did just that. He called his office in Mannheim and passed on the
orders he had received from Lutze. The man who was on duty that night
at the Mannheim SA office telephone and who received Fust's order
confirmed that he understood it and then hung up. But he never passed
on the order he had received. Instead, he transmitted precisely the
opposite order.
Fritsch gets bogus orders
wpeF0.jpg (1550 bytes) The normal procedure would have been for the
man on duty at the telephone to immediately call the deputy group
leader, Lucke, who was in nearby Darmstadt. But instead he called SA
Oberfuehrer (senior colonel) Fritsch and asked him to come to the
office. Fritsch had a reputation for not being particularly clever.
When he arrived, the man who had received the telephone call showed
him
a small paper slip with a few notes on it which said that the
synagogues within the Mannheim SA Group district were to be destroyed.
The man who had received the call explained to Fritsch that the order
had just arrived from Munich. Slow-minded as he was, Fritsch did not
know what to do and called the local Kreisleiter (district Party
leader) and his deputy. These two men then arrived at the SA office
and
discussed the situation, while at the same time the telephone duty man
notified other SA leaders, but still not the deputy Group leader
Lucke.
In the meantime the small paper slip disappeared and the SA men now
arriving at the headquarters met only the Kreisleiter, who told them
about the order which he thought had come from Munich. No one asked
for
any further confirmation. The SA men then left to begin the
destruction. Hours later, when the whole action was almost finished,
the telephone guard finally called Deputy Group Leader Lucke and
passed
on the false order. He also informed Lucke that the action had already
been going on for several hours. Since it was almost all over by this
time, Lucke also neglected to ask for confirmation of the order. It
was
already 3 o'clock in the morning. Lucke then alerted the
Standartenfuehrer of his Brigade and carried out the destruction
within
the Darmstadt district.
Mysterious telephone call
At 8 o'clock the next morning Lucke sat down and wrote the report
which
was later cited at the Nuremberg Tribunal. In fact, as already shown,
there was no order to commit arson or carry out destruction against
any
Jewish property from the Gruppenfuehrer in Munich, but only from the
telephone guard. Who he was remains a mystery. During the postwar
trials against members of this SA unit, none of the judges asked for
the name or identity of this telephone guard. This mysterious man was
very probably an agent for those who were actually behind the entire
Crystal Night Affair.
The Fine Imposed on the Jews
wpeA9.jpg (11601 bytes) German government and Party officials were
furious about what had happened. Hermann Goering, who was responsible
for Germany's economy, complained that it would be impossible to
replace the special plate glass of the broken store windows because it
was not manufactured in Germany. It had to be imported from Belgium
and
would cost a great deal of precious foreign currency.
Reason for fine
wpeF8.jpg (3662 bytes) Because of the Jewish boycott against German
goods, the Reich was short of foreign exchange currency. Goering
therefore decided that because this shortage was caused by the Jews,
it
was they who would have to pay for the broken glass. He imposed a fine
of one billion Reichsmarks on the German Jews.
It was certainly unjust to force Jews to pay for damage which they had
not caused. Goering understood this. However, in private he justified
the fine by citing the fact that the 1933 Jewish declaration of war
against Germany was proclaimed in the name of the millions of Jews
throughout the world.
Therefore they could now help their co-religionists in Germany bear
the
consequences of the boycott. It should also be pointed out that only
German Jews with assets of more than 5,000 Reichsmarks in cash had to
contribute to the fine. In 1938, when prices were very low, 5,000
Reichsmarks was a small fortune.
The Reich confiscated all insurance payments that were to have been
paid to Jews whose businesses and homes were looted or destroyed and
the Jewish owners were made personally responsible for the cost of all
repairs.
'Crystal Night' 1938: The great Anti-German spectacle
Ingrid Weckert
* Paper Presented to the Sixth International Revisionist
Conference.
LINKS THAT WERE BROKEN BY THE HOLOCAUST COSPIRACY OF LIES.
2 SNOWY HAIRED 7 AND 8 YEAR OLD KIDS , A GIRL AND A BOY PLAYING IN THE
CONFUSION THAT WAS EUROPE DURING WWII CAME ACROSS A LARGE BLACK MAN SITTING
VERY QUIETLY AND STARTED TO SPEAK TO HIM AND PLAYFULLY TOUCH HIM.
HE CAME TO LIFE AND CHASED THEM OFF STILL NOT MOVING JUST BY YELLING AND
WAVING HIS ARMS. THE KIDS MOVED TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS A SAFE DISTANCE
STILL TEASING HIM AS PLAYFUL STUPID 7 AND 8 YEAROLDS WILL.
THEN THE MAN HAVING APPARENTLY FRIGHTENED THEM OF TO A SAFE DISTANCE BLEW UP
INTO THE AIR SO FRIGHTENING THE 2 KIDS THEY RAN OF IN A PANIC TO TELL THEIR
MOTHER WHO WAS RESTING WITH OTHER REFUGEES .
THAT WAS THE LAST OF THE INCIDENT FOR THE KIDS ANYWAY TILL I WAS TALKING TO
THE RELATIVES NOW GROWN UP ADULTS AND REALISED WHAT HAD POSSIBLY HAPPENED.
WITH AN EXSERVICEMAN FATHER THERE WAS ONE LANDMINE IN WWII THAT I BELIEVE
YOU KNEW YOU HAD TRIGGERED WHEN YOU HEARD THE CLICK. THE NEXT SOUND YOU KNEW
YOU WOULD HEAR WOULD BE THE EXPLOSION WHICH WOULD IN ALL PROBABILITY KILL
YOU.
THAT IS ONE OF A THOUSAND STORIES THAT SHOULD HAVE CEMENTED RELATIONS
BETWEEN AMERICANS AND EUROPEANS IN THAT A LOT OF THE AMERICAN SERVICEMEN
TOOK HOME WIVES FROM EUROPE CEMENTED ON DANGEROUS MEETINGS LIKE THAT
DESCRIBED ABOVE THAT MIGHT HAVE SAVED THE SERVICEMANS LIFE.
HOWEVER THE FIRST TING THE EUROPEAN FOUND ON ARRIVING IN ANY OF THE WESTERN
DEMOCRACIES WAS THAT THE WATER HAD BEEN NICELY MUDDIED SO THAT WHEN YOU
INNOCENTLY CAME OUT WITH THE TRUTH AS YOU KNEW IT IN EUROPE HAVING LIVED
THROUGH IT, YOU WERE TOLD THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
AND HAD BEEN BRAINWASHED BY THE NAZIS BECAUSE THE JEWISH GROCERS AUNTY TOLD
HER ALL ABOUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED .
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyBMuSYLGk
http://judicial-inc.biz/Kristallnacht.htm
WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;
Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,imprisoned or both for
discussing the topics set forth in this article.
(Joe Kennedy) The American Secretary of State, James Forrestal, who later
died in mysterious circumstances, wrote in his Forrestal Diaries (Cassel and
Co., London 1952):
'Have played golf with Joe Kennedy [US Ambassador in Britain, father of
President John Kennedy]. According to him, Chamberlain declared that Zionism
and world Jewry have obliged England to enter the war.'
http://www.heretical.com/mkilliam/wwii.html
(bourgeoisie Jewish code for non Jew) In Russia, 100,000,000 bourgeousie
were exterminated. None of them were Jews. All were Christians. Most of the
generals in charge of these anti-Christian pogroms were Jews. Stalin
considered Jews to be the only
real communists that could be trusted. - Bolshevik State. . . there were in
1918-1919, 17 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 11 Armenians, 35 Letts,15 Germans, 1
Hungarian, 10 Georgians, 3 Poles, 3 Finns, 1 Karaim, 457 Jews -
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-occupiedgovernments-USSR.html -
http://www.oicu2.com/afc/letter.html -
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-yagoda.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
THERE WERE JEWS WHO WERE LOYAL GERMAN CITIZENS AND WORKED WITH THE GERMANS .
Jews in German army
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://judaism.about.com/b/a/039042.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/675641/posts
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/jewishnazi.html
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERmiltch.htm
http://www.jugendgeschichtswerkstatt.de/strassennamen/fliegerviertel/flieger
viertel.html
http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/gerjews.htm
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/00/03/NSJews.html
Here by a Munich-born historian saluting in moving detail a group of little
known
heroines - the women, nearly all of them German, who opposed Hitler both
before and, more dramatically, during the war.
http://www.new-books-in-german.com/aut2001/book05a.htm
http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html
http://www.msnbc.com/news/606092.asp?0si=-&cp1=1
Who has said, America and Israel? I'll pick Israel every time. That is a guy
who was educated, worked in intelligence in the air force in America
Internal documents obtained at that time by NBC News from Milco
International Inc., Smyth's company, revealed that he had also exported
other equipment to Israel, including chemicals used to make missile fuel.
Both the krytrons and the chemicals in question are so-called "dual use"
items.
http://www.von-waldenburg.com/reviews.html
WOMAN WHO LIVED THROUGH WAR IN GERMANY
Marlon Brando.
http://www.theunjustmedia.com/ben%20stein%20on%20jewish%20media%20control.htm
The Jews declared war against Germany
On March 24, 1933, the Jewish World Congress, then under the leadership of
Chaim Weizman, declared war on Germany on behalf of the Jews of the world.
http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/encampment.html
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ds9.htm
http://www.rense.com/general45/zzo.htm
The Zionist Jewish Role In - Causing World War II
"In 1941, a Jewish writer, Theodor N. Kaufman, wrote Germany Must Perish.
Kaufman set out a plan for the total destruction of the German population by
a very simple method: the mass sterilisation of all German men and women
between the age of puberty and sixty years."
From a pre-1993 edition of John Tyndall's Spearhead magazine
12-9-3
http://www.corax.org/revisionism/misc/encampment.html
duke
wrote:
>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9 reveals:
>"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
>said Friday. "
>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
>judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
>making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. Mat 16:13-20, John 20:22-23.
Dud, you are really out of your element now.
Heeheeheeheheeee.
>He's actually a double hypocrite because he's whining here about
>abortion, yet his own god is the biggest murderer in history!
>He's actually a triple hypocrite because he's a Catholic priest. He's
>supposed to be celibate, and therefore he's explicitly not going forth
>and multiplying yet he's judging others who are doing exactly the same
>thing!
>What a jerk-wad. Budikka
You're certainly that, you big dud.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Mitchell Holman
news:er9qg51pplnlgld60...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666
> <budi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9 reveals:
>>"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
>>said Friday. "
>
>>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
>>judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
>>making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
> himself to bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. Mat 16:13-20,
> John 20:22-23.
Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
Care to try again?
mani deli
>Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
You have got to be a lot dumber than Sara Palin to believe this
drivel.
Patrick
> "Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> said Friday. "
>
> So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
The good bishop was doing what he was told by Jesus Himself.
What sins you retain, they will be retained.......
bam
"Budikka666" <budi...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:ead79853-29f6-4184...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> "Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> said Friday. "
>
> So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
You forgot the next line:
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
So if the Bishop *did* believe in abortion, I would agree that he should
have witheld judgement. But in this case, I'm sure he won't mind being
judged by God on an equal basis when it comes to the abortion issue.
You could use that line to justify running red lights, stealing, killing,
defrauding, raping, etc. ad nauseum, and to reprimand anyone who takes a
moral stance on any social issue. Oh, and btw, you certainly have judged the
Bishop - so wh'os the hypocrite?
BAM
duke
NO, I know where it is, and you don't. That shows the fallacy of your words.
duke
I am a lot dumber than Sarah, but I'm intensely more knowledgeable than you.
Hasn't it dawned on you that the Christ_ian Church and the assignment of the
priesthood, just as the Levitical jews had, is clearly identified in the NT? Of
course not, numb nuts, you have no idea what's in the bible.
mani deli
The usual short stupid statement from a doofus. That's the best this
hypocrite can say when stuck. He's a lie unto himself.
>The Dukester, American-American
>*****
>"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
>Pope Paul VI
>*****
The ass is the most perfect form of entertainment to many RCC bigwigs.
mani deli
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:54:03 -0500, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:51:03 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
Your dumbest statement so far.
>>You have got to be a lot dumber than Sara Palin to believe this
>>drivel.
>
>I am a lot dumber than Sarah, but I'm intensely more knowledgeable than you.
intensely!
>Hasn't it dawned on you that the Christ_ian Church and the assignment of the
>priesthood, just as the Levitical jews had, is clearly identified in the NT? Of
>course not, numb nuts, you have no idea what's in the bible.
Nothing about Catholic, NOTHING. ZERO!
>The Dukester, American-American
>*****
>"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
>Pope Paul VI
>*****
Nothing fails like prayer!
Mitchell Holman
news:lg30h55v05cqdb008...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:55:50 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> <noe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
>>news:er9qg51pplnlgld60...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666
>>> <budi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9 reveals:
>>>>"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>>>>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>>>>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island
>>>>Democrat said Friday. "
>>>
>>>>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be
>>>>not judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic
>>>>church making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>>>
>>> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
>>> himself to bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. Mat
>>> 16:13-20, John 20:22-23.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
>>
>> Care to try again?
>
> NO, I know where it is,
Which explains why you can't post it. Right........
Jimbo
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >said Friday. "
> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
in the confessional?
duke
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:36:59 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:55:50 -0600, Mitchell Holman <noe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in
>>>news:er9qg51pplnlgld60...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666
>>>> <budi...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9 reveals:
>>>>>"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>>>>>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>>>>>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
>>>>>said Friday. "
>>>>
>>>>>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
>>>>>judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
>>>>>making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>>>>
>>>> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
>>>> himself to bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. Mat 16:13-20,
>>>> John 20:22-23.
>>> Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
>>> Care to try again?
>>NO, I know where it is, and you don't. That shows the fallacy of your words.
>The usual short stupid statement from a doofus. That's the best this
>hypocrite can say when stuck. He's a lie unto himself.
I gave you the verses. You can't even find them in the bible. That's a clear
indication that you speak from your ass. And I'm not going to do your simple
work for you.
If you want to participate in a discussion, then participate, and quit showing
your ass.
duke
You pure ignorance leaves you out of this discussion.
duke
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:39:01 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:54:03 -0500, mani deli <nob...@rinterlog.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:51:03 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
>
>Your dumbest statement so far.
Waiting on some intelligence from you.
>>>You have got to be a lot dumber than Sara Palin to believe this
>>>drivel.
>>I am a lot dumber than Sarah, but I'm intensely more knowledgeable than you.
>intensely!
Yep.
>>Hasn't it dawned on you that the Christ_ian Church and the assignment of the
>>priesthood, just as the Levitical jews had, is clearly identified in the NT? Of
>>course not, numb nuts, you have no idea what's in the bible.
>Nothing about Catholic, NOTHING. ZERO!
And you clearly don't understand, and aren't interested in trying.
duke
Nothing.
Trance Gemini
> Nothing.
This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
everything ;-)
Patrick
, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>> wrote:
> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >said Friday. "
> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself
> to
> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
in the confessional?
-----------
PB: what makes you think sin is allowed or authorized?
Why do you ask such stupid questions?
Jimbo
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> >in the confessional?
>
> Nothing.
>
Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
that have done so? Are you saying the soliciting teens for sex is a
legitimate use or function of the confessional? If not, why have you
and your church defended it's use for such purposes?
duke
That's only because you don't care for the truth.
duke
>On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 25, 7:51�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
>> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
>> >> >said Friday. "
>> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
>> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
>> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>>
>> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
>> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. �
>>
>> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
>> >in the confessional?
>>
>> Nothing.
>>
>
>Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>that have done so?
We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
Trance Gemini
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> Nothing.
>
> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >everything ;-)
>
> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
I care very much about this truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
Trance Gemini
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> >> >in the confessional?
>
> >> Nothing.
>
> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >that have done so?
>
> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
When the Catholic Church hides pedophile rapist priests in the
chancery or moves them from Parish to Parish.
And then Catholics like you spend your time justifying it or lying
about it.
You are Enabling the Catholic Church to not only cover up the crimes
of these rapist pedophile Priests but you are enabling the rapes and
sexual assaults on the children who are the victims of these rapist
pedophile priests.
And every time you put money in the collection plate you are financing
these abuses of the victims and secular law.
Take responsibility for your tacit approval or do something to put an
end to these crimes.
Jimbo
> "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote ..
The stringent and vociferous defense of this 'sin' by the church and
many of it's glassy eyed sycophants has not gone unnoticed.
> Why do you ask such stupid questions?
The question is quite intelligent, given the history of the catholic
church.
Jimbo
>
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> Nothing.
>
> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >everything ;-)
>
> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
Thus far, you have not demonstrated that you have a grasp on the truth.
Jimbo
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> >> >in the confessional?
>
> >> Nothing.
>
> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >that have done so?
>
> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
Jimbo
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> >> >in the confessional?
>
> >> Nothing.
>
> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >that have done so?
>
> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
So, once again, I ask this question that you have assiduously avoided
answering.
"Are you saying the soliciting teens for sex is a
legitimate use or function of the confessional? If not, why have you
and your church defended it's use for such purposes? "
Tell me duke, if confessional is secret as a legitimate "pastoring",
must those elements that clearly violate both moral rules and civil
law also be kept secret? In other words, is soliciting teens for sex
within the confessional a legitimate religious function? Answer
clearly this time.
mani deli
>>>>
>>>>>Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
>>
>>Your dumbest statement so far.
>
>>>Hasn't it dawned on you that the Christ_ian Church and the assignment of the
>>>priesthood, just as the Levitical jews had, is clearly identified in the NT? Of
>>>course not, numb nuts, you have no idea what's in the bible.
>
>>Nothing about Catholic, NOTHING. ZERO!
>
>And you clearly don't understand, and aren't interested in trying.
>
There 's Nothing! And you know it.
>The Dukester, typical below average American-American Doofus
>*****
mani deli
>On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
><trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Nothing.
>>
>>This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>>everything ;-)
>
>That's only because you don't care for the truth.
I don't care for your fanatical bullshit.
mani deli
>>>> Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
>>>> Care to try again?
>
>I gave you the verses. You can't even find them in the bible. That's a clear
>indication that you speak from your ass. And I'm not going to do your simple
>work for you.
Bullshit Duke!
There ain't no Catholics in the Bible; which I doubt you ever read.
NONE! Never were, never will be.
duke
Sorry, gobbler, but I told you that you wouldn't understand. The Catholic
Church **is** the Church founded by Christ in 33AD. The Characteristics of HIS
Church are defined in the NT, and they are present today in the RCC. After the
RCC, the presence of these characteristics in other Churches falls off rapidly.
>NONE! Never were, never will be.
I sit back comfortably knowing that my Church is the one founded by Christ.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Nothing.
>>
>> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>> >everything ;-)
>>
>> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
>I care very much about this truth.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church. I
can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
duke
Of course you don't. Truth is not something you're looking for.
duke
According to the JJ report, only 3% were moved. And the bishop only has
authority to move a priest within his own diocese.
>And then Catholics like you spend your time justifying it or lying
>about it.
Yet when I give a truth, gobblers like you call it a lie.
>And every time you put money in the collection plate you are financing
>these abuses of the victims and secular law.
Oh, bullshit.
>Take responsibility for your tacit approval or do something to put an
>end to these crimes.
Good news. The house has already been cleaned, and you don't even know it.
duke
The JJ report says it all. Try reading it sometimes.
duke
The confessional???? Haahaahaah. Notown, you're even more stupid that I gave
you credit for being.
>Tell me duke, if confessional is secret as a legitimate "pastoring",
>must those elements that clearly violate both moral rules and civil
>law also be kept secret?
Hey, vacant lot - surprise, the confessional has nothing to do with it. And
all this time I tried to give you at least a little credit for intelligence.
Nomen Publicus
I think most people will be most concerned by the fact that when discovered,
the amoral Irish priests were just moved to a new parish rather than dragged
to the nearest police station and thrown in jail to await a trial. This
required complicity of the catholic church hierarchy. As usual, the
coverup, when exposed, will cause much more trouble to an organisation than
just dealing with the original problems.
>
> The Dukester, American-American
> *****
> "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
> Pope Paul VI
> *****
--
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power but absolute
power is corrupt only in the hands of the absolutely faithful. -- Anonymous
Trance Gemini
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
>
>
> >On Nov 28, 1:14 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Nothing.
>
> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >> >everything ;-)
>
> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
> >I care very much about this truth.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>
> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
Some years ago?
Lahy was caught at the border with child porn on his laptop and there
are indications that he's also been molesting children.
The RCMP is investigating him as we speak.
>
> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church.
You mean the Pope? The one whose Seal was on the Instruction issued in
the 1960s telling Bishops that anyone involved who exposed this
corruption would be excommunicated, and also instructing the Bishops
to both cover up the crimes and move the Pedophiles to other Parishes,
some across International borders?
And all the Popes after him that didn't withdraw Instruction tacitly
agreeing with him?
And all the Popes back to 150AD (Beyond Belief book) who knew about
this crime in the church?
And anyone and everyone who worked in the Vatican?
And all of the Bishops around the world?
That *is* the fucking church Duke.
> I
> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
And how is that relevant? The "they're as bad as we are" deflection?
In Canada any organization that works with or is responsible for
children is required to:
1. Do background checks.
2. If a pedophile is uncovered, report them to the police.
It is illegal in Canada for any organization or institution to cover
for a pedophile and/or knowingly give a pedophile access to children.
And yet the Catholic Church gives itself the right to violate these
laws because they have arbitrarily decided that they are above secular
law.
And they aren't even being held fully accountable for compensating the
victims in Ireland???
Why aren't you outraged that your church is covering up for pedophiles
and enabling them?
And I'm still waiting for an answer to this question:
Why are Priests who fuck adults excommunicated while Priests who rape
children are covered up for and further enabled?
Trance Gemini
Thank you for admitting that the Catholic Church policy was to harbor
criminals and enable their crimes.
> And the bishop only has
> authority to move a priest within his own diocese.
>
> >And then Catholics like you spend your time justifying it or lying
> >about it.
>
> Yet when I give a truth, gobblers like you call it a lie.
I'm Still waiting for a truth from you.
>
> >And every time you put money in the collection plate you are financing
> >these abuses of the victims and secular law.
>
> Oh, bullshit.
You're financing their child abuse enabler protection insurance as
well as the support of those pedophile priests who are being hidden
and covered up for by *YOUR* church.
>
> >Take responsibility for your tacit approval or do something to put an
> >end to these crimes.
>
> Good news. The house has already been cleaned, and you don't even know it.
Then why is the ArchBishop (or Bishop or whatever he is) being hidden
in the Vatican and not returned to the US to be interviewed by police?
Why are pedophile priests still being harbored by the church and not
turned over for prosecution with the evidence of their crimes?
Why is the Catholic Church not paying the full restitution it owes
it's victims and the tax payer in Ireland being forced to pay it?
It's not like they haven't got the money or the assets to cover it.
Patrick
> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >that have done so?
>
> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
evil pedophile fag priests. We want them out as fast as they
can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
However, just because the RCC has paid out $ 2 Billion to lawyers
(and a few victims), this does not mean that they have defended any
such sicko's.
In a few years, smarter people will be in charge, and they will
determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
of a few creeps. Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
years that were accused of abusing some child. This does not compare
to the 135,000 kids abused each year. (by family members, coaches,
teachers, leaders in society...) However, why has the RCC been the
ONLY organization that has been held responsible for the deeds of
its employees.
Be careful with your answer.
I am prepared to call you a liar.
And prove it.
How many school superintendents have been sued and held
responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
more than the church. They have been moved more than
your bowel mouth.
Patrick
"Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote ..
> , duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>> wrote:
> > >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> > >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> > >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> > >said Friday. "
> > >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> > >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> > >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> > Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself
> > to
> > bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> in the confessional?
>
> -----------
>
> PB: what makes you think sin is allowed or authorized?
The stringent and vociferous defense of this 'sin' by the church and
many of it's glassy eyed sycophants has not gone unnoticed.
Prove it.
Or shaddup.
> Why do you ask such stupid questions?
The question is quite intelligent, given the history of the catholic
church.
Please provide proof that the church "ALLOWS"
priests to molest kids., ... or solicit sex from
teens in the confessional.
duke
wrote:
>duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>> <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>>>
>>>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> Nothing.
>>>>
>>>> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>>>> >everything ;-)
>>>>
>>>> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>>>
>>>I care very much about this truth.
>>>
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>>
>> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>>
>> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church. I
>> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
>> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
>> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
>I think most people will be most concerned by the fact that when discovered,
>the amoral Irish priests were just moved to a new parish rather than dragged
>to the nearest police station and thrown in jail to await a trial.
Wow, strictly hitlerville, right?
>This
>required complicity of the catholic church hierarchy. As usual, the
>coverup, when exposed, will cause much more trouble to an organisation than
>just dealing with the original problems.
According to the JJ report for the US, only 3% were moved.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 29, 8:09�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>>
>>
>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Nothing.
>>
>> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>> >> >everything ;-)
>>
>> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>>
>> >I care very much about this truth.
>>
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>>
>> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>
>Some years ago?
Yep, the house has undergone a major house cleaning.
>Lahy was caught at the border with child porn on his laptop and there
>are indications that he's also been molesting children.
>The RCMP is investigating him as we speak.
>> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church.
>You mean the Pope?
Nope, the priest first. After all, he's just a hired hand.
>And all the Popes back to 150AD (Beyond Belief book) who knew about
>this crime in the church?
Uh, actually, the problem (in the US Church) began to appear in 1950AD , peaked
in the 1970, and then fell dramatically. It was largely a problem of many of
the better types choosing the peace corps.
>And anyone and everyone who worked in the Vatican?
>And all of the Bishops around the world?
>That *is* the fucking church Duke.
No, the Church is the entire Body of Christians.
>> I
>> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
>> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
>> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
>And how is that relevant? The "they're as bad as we are" deflection?
It shows you how silly your comment above re 150AD is.
>In Canada any organization that works with or is responsible for
>children is required to:
>1. Do background checks.
60 years ago?
>2. If a pedophile is uncovered, report them to the police.
>It is illegal in Canada for any organization or institution to cover
>for a pedophile and/or knowingly give a pedophile access to children.
And where is "access" defined? Would it be an unsupervised field trip. Would
it be within 1 block? Does the pedo need to have been convicted before or just
suspected? These type of questions are in need of answering.
>And yet the Catholic Church gives itself the right to violate these
>laws because they have arbitrarily decided that they are above secular
>law.
No, the RCC did not. But a few bad men hired by the Chruch clearly did.
>And they aren't even being held fully accountable for compensating the
>victims in Ireland???
>Why aren't you outraged that your church is covering up for pedophiles
>and enabling them?
They're not.
>And I'm still waiting for an answer to this question:
>Why are Priests who fuck adults excommunicated
They're absolutely not.
> while Priests who rape
>children are covered up for and further enabled?
They're not.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> According to the JJ report, only 3% were moved.
>Thank you for admitting that the Catholic Church policy was to harbor
>criminals and enable their crimes.
Thank you for being so crude that you can't acknowledge what truly has taken
place rather than what you do hopefully wished had happened.
>>�And the bishop only has
>> authority to move a priest within his own diocese.
>> >And then Catholics like you spend your time justifying it or lying
>> >about it.
>> Yet when I give a truth, gobblers like you call it a lie.
>I'm Still waiting for a truth from you.
You show no interest in truth, just your black heart with no interest in facts.
>> >And every time you put money in the collection plate you are financing
>> >these abuses of the victims and secular law.
>> Oh, bullshit.
>You're financing their child abuse enabler protection insurance as
>well as the support of those pedophile priests who are being hidden
>and covered up for by *YOUR* church.
The JJ report states that the pedo problem is no worst in the CC than for
coaches, teachers, and youth workers.
>> >Take responsibility for your tacit approval or do something to put an
>> >end to these crimes.
>>
>> Good news. �The house has already been cleaned, and you don't even know it. �
>Then why is the ArchBishop (or Bishop or whatever he is) being hidden
>in the Vatican and not returned to the US to be interviewed by police?
He's already appeared before the grand jury. Based on what I've seen, he is
challenged only as to why he didn't defrock priests. Possibly you might like to
study the issue a little more.
>Why are pedophile priests still being harbored by the church and not
>turned over for prosecution with the evidence of their crimes?
It takes a witness to hold a trial.
>Why is the Catholic Church not paying the full restitution it owes
>it's victims and the tax payer in Ireland being forced to pay it?
I have no idea what's going on in Ireland.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>"Jimbo" <ckdb...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>> >that have done so?
>>
>> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
Then they weren't transferred to other parishes to do it again?
>You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
>billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
>have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>
>The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
>evil pedophile fag priests. We want them out as fast as they
>can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
Yet you defend the organisation that let them get away with it,
covered it up and transferred them to do it again.
>However, just because the RCC has paid out $ 2 Billion to lawyers
>(and a few victims), this does not mean that they have defended any
>such sicko's.
No. They just hushed it up and transferred the perpetrators to let it
become the scandal it is now.
There is an arrest warrant for Cardinal Law should he ever return to
the USA,for his part in this.
The Vatican wouldn't extradite him because they have no extradition
treaty.
>In a few years, smarter people will be in charge, and they will
>determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
>of a few creeps.
That they knew about and allowed to flourish.
> Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
>years that were accused of abusing some child.
And what was the average number they molested?
> This does not compare
>to the 135,000 kids abused each year. (by family members, coaches,
>teachers, leaders in society...) However, why has the RCC been the
>ONLY organization that has been held responsible for the deeds of
>its employees.
BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT KNEW ABOUT IT, COVERED IT UP, AND
TRANSFERRED THEM TO POSITIONS OF TRUST ELSEWHERE TO DO IT AGAIN.
Stop pretending.
>Be careful with your answer.
Be honest with yours.
>I am prepared to call you a liar.
You are one.
>And prove it.
And you proved it.
>How many school superintendents have been sued and held
>responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
BECAUSE THE OFFENDER GETS FIRED INSTEAD OF TRANSFERRED.
We had one at my grammar school when I was a boy. The older kids
warned the younder ones that hadn't yet realised it. You made sure you
were never alone when he was around.
Eventually he was caught and fired. This was in the days before people
talked openly about such things. But it was on his record so he never
got another job in the school system.
So he wasn't transferred to do it again.
>And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
>more than the church. They have been moved more than
>your bowel mouth.
You're lying.
Trance Gemini
> "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote
The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
Huge difference there that you apparently are too blind to see.
Trance Gemini
> "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in .
>
>
>
> "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote ..
> > , duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>> wrote:
> > > >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> > > >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> > > >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> > > >said Friday. "
> > > >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> > > >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> > > >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> > > Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself
> > > to
> > > bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> > What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> > in the confessional?
>
> > -----------
>
> > PB: what makes you think sin is allowed or authorized?
>
> The stringent and vociferous defense of this 'sin' by the church and
> many of it's glassy eyed sycophants has not gone unnoticed.
>
> Prove it.
> Or shaddup.
Why does the Catholic Church excommunicate Priests who fuck adults but
cover up for and hide pedophile Priests and not excommunicate them?
Trance Gemini
All of whom either
1. Actively covered up the crimes of Pedophile Rapist Priests from the
Pope down.
2. Actively participated in hiding the Priests by moving them to
different Parishes.
3. Actively enabled these Pedophile Rapist Priests by either:
a) Remaining silent and/or
b) Apologizing for these criminal behavior of the Church.
Criminal behavior such as Obstructing justice (not providing the
evidence held by Church against the Priests); Harboring Criminals
(refusing to turn Pedophile Rapist Priests over to the Police so that
charges could be laid); Not reporting the Pedophile Rapist Priests to
the Police, etc.
And those who actually have a sense of moral outrage have left the
Church with a few remaining to protest this behavior.
I suspect they'll be excommunicated before long.
>
> >> I
> >> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
> >> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
> >> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
> >And how is that relevant? The "they're as bad as we are" deflection?
>
> It shows you how silly your comment above re 150AD is.
Reference the book Beyond Belief.
>
> >In Canada any organization that works with or is responsible for
> >children is required to:
> >1. Do background checks.
>
> 60 years ago?
Today.
The Catholic Church still does not follow the law on this.
>
> >2. If a pedophile is uncovered, report them to the police.
> >It is illegal in Canada for any organization or institution to cover
> >for a pedophile and/or knowingly give a pedophile access to children.
>
> And where is "access" defined? Would it be an unsupervised field trip. Would
> it be within 1 block? Does the pedo need to have been convicted before or just
> suspected? These type of questions are in need of answering.
>
> >And yet the Catholic Church gives itself the right to violate these
> >laws because they have arbitrarily decided that they are above secular
> >law.
>
> No, the RCC did not. But a few bad men hired by the Chruch clearly did.
>
> >And they aren't even being held fully accountable for compensating the
> >victims in Ireland???
> >Why aren't you outraged that your church is covering up for pedophiles
> >and enabling them?
>
> They're not.
This is a lie.
>
> >And I'm still waiting for an answer to this question:
> >Why are Priests who fuck adults excommunicated
>
> They're absolutely not.
This is a lie.
>
> > while Priests who rape
> >children are covered up for and further enabled?
This is a lie.
Jimbo
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Nov 28, 1:14 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >> >> Nothing.
>
> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >> >everything ;-)
>
> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
> >I care very much about this truth.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>
> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
And still prevalent today. New cases all the time, liar pedophile
duke. Have you been paying attention to "the problem" in Ireland?
>
> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem,
Bullshit. The Vatican issued a letter of silence in 1962 prohibiting
clergy from talking about "the problem". The Church IS the problem.
Jimbo
I have, and I have also been paying attention to what has been
happening in the real world. Like I said, every piece of evidence to
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>"Jimbo" <ckdb...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>>> >that have done so?
>>>
>>> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
> Then they weren't transferred to other parishes to do it again?
Nope.
They were NOT moved to other parishes in order to do it again.
And let us play your game a bit.....
If they were moved, does this PROVE they defended them?
>>You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
>>billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
>>have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>>
>>The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
>>evil pedophile fag priests. We want them out as fast as they
>>can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
>
> Yet you defend the organisation that let them get away with it,
> covered it up and transferred them to do it again.
Nope.
We merely explain why some bad decisions were made.
That doesn't mean I defend those bad decisions.
It means I understand how they came up with them.
--------
>>However, just because the RCC has paid out $ 2 Billion to lawyers
>>(and a few victims), this does not mean that they have defended any
>>such sicko's.
>
> No. They just hushed it up and transferred the perpetrators to let it
> become the scandal it is now.
So.... you then agree that the RCC did not defend them?
If so, what is your problem now?
------------
> There is an arrest warrant for Cardinal Law should he ever return to
> the USA,for his part in this.
LIAR.
--------------
> The Vatican wouldn't extradite him because they have no extradition
> treaty.
How do you know?
Some butt-wipe tell you this?
Prove it.
God, you are stupid.
-----------------
>>In a few years, smarter people will be in charge, and they will
>>determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
>>of a few creeps.
>> Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
>>years that were accused of abusing some child.
>
> And what was the average number they molested?
Good question, bw.
Do you know the answer?
MOST evil child molesters were accused of 1, 2 or 3 kids.
MOST evil priest child abusers were sent to counselling and NEVER molested
again.
Only 190 or so evil priests received counselling, were cleared to return
to the ministry, and then abused more childrem.
That is 190 out of 100,000 priests over a 50 year period.
Go ahead, prove me wrong.
You can't.
--------------
>> This does not compare
>>to the 135,000 kids abused each year. (by family members, coaches,
>>teachers, leaders in society...) However, why has the RCC been the
>>ONLY organization that has been held responsible for the deeds of
>>its employees.
>
> BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY ONE THAT KNEW ABOUT IT, COVERED IT UP, AND
> TRANSFERRED THEM TO POSITIONS OF TRUST ELSEWHERE TO DO IT AGAIN.
Ahhh, but you are lying again.
The abused kid knew of it.
The parents knew it.
And they decided - THE PARENTS - decided not to go to
the police and report the abuse. SICK PARENTS.
These parents are just as responsible for more kids being abused.
They should be ashamed of themselves.
------------
> Stop pretending.
>>Be careful with your answer.
> Be honest with yours.
>>I am prepared to call you a liar.
> You are one.
>>And prove it.
> And you proved it.
>
>>How many school superintendents have been sued and held
>>responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
>
> BECAUSE THE OFFENDER GETS FIRED INSTEAD OF TRANSFERRED.
No.... The offender was NOT fired.
He was allowed to resign and go to another school district
10 miles away and abuse more kids.
> We had one at my grammar school when I was a boy. The older kids
> warned the younder ones that hadn't yet realised it. You made sure you
> were never alone when he was around.
Why didn't the parents come forward?
Why wasn't he turned over to the police?
--------------
> Eventually he was caught and fired. This was in the days before people
> talked openly about such things. But it was on his record so he never
> got another job in the school system.
Not that school system.
However, he moved to another district and got another teaching position.
------------
> So he wasn't transferred to do it again.
Yes, he was......
-----------
>
>>And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
>>more than the church. They have been moved more than
>>your bowel mouth.
>
> You're lying.
I can prove it, bw......
If you ask me to, I will.
Then I will expect an apology from you....
Christopher A. Lee
It tells us plenty about them when they try to defend the church, that
they would rather we didn't know.
Jimbo
I see that you can't answer the question, liar pedophile duke. There
is no doubt that you are a pedophile since you support them without
fail.
Jimbo
>
> > >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> > >that have done so?
>
> > We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
> You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
> billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
> have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>
> The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
> evil pedophile fag priests.
Bullshit. I don't know about you, but the RCC and earl are known
pedophile supporters.
Jimbo
> "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in .
>
>
>
>
>
> "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote ..
> > , duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > > Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>> wrote:
> > > >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> > > >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> > > >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> > > >said Friday. "
> > > >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> > > >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> > > >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> > > Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself
> > > to
> > > bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> > What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> > in the confessional?
>
> > -----------
>
> > PB: what makes you think sin is allowed or authorized?
>
> The stringent and vociferous defense of this 'sin' by the church and
> many of it's glassy eyed sycophants has not gone unnoticed.
>
> Prove it.
LOL! Watch the news sometime you idiot.
Patrick
> determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
> of a few creeps. Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
> years that were accused of abusing some child. This does not compare
> to the 135,000 kids abused each year. (by family members, coaches,
> teachers, leaders in society...) However, why has the RCC been the
> ONLY organization that has been held responsible for the deeds of
> its employees.
> Be careful with your answer.
> I am prepared to call you a liar.
> And prove it.
> How many school superintendents have been sued and held
> responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
> And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
> more than the church. They have been moved more than
> your bowel mouth.
The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
PB - NOT TRUE.
Please don't bore me with your lies.
Hundreds and thousands of teachers have been allowed to resign rather
than go through the formal and difficult process of being fired for cause.
--------------------
unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
PB - Another LIE.
Provide this secret Instruction telling the bishops to cover up.
I would love to discuss this.
And prove that you are a fool one more time.
Jimbo
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:21:22 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
> >> According to the JJ report, only 3% were moved.
> >Thank you for admitting that the Catholic Church policy was to harbor
> >criminals and enable their crimes.
>
> Thank you for being so crude that you can't acknowledge what truly has taken
> place rather than what you do hopefully wished had happened.
We are acknowledging what truly has taken place. It's been all over
the news for the last decade or more. Have you been paying attention
to the case in Ireland, you lying sack of shit.
Trance Gemini
>
> >> According to the JJ report, only 3% were moved.
> >Thank you for admitting that the Catholic Church policy was to harbor
> >criminals and enable their crimes.
>
> Thank you for being so crude that you can't acknowledge what truly has taken
> place rather than what you do hopefully wished had happened.
What I wish is the that the Catholic Church would stop spinning lies
and start honestly dealing with problem by:
1. Turning all evidence of Pedophile Rapist Priests to the Police
2. Excommunicate those Priests immediately and hand them directly over
to the Police.
3. Take responsibility and pay out damages to the victims that
acknowledge the seriousness of the crimes committed against the
victims.
4. Demonstrate some compassion to the victims by acknowledging the
crimes instead of assuming they are lying.
5. Issue Instructions that this Secular Law is to be followed under
all circumstances.
And that Catholics, instead of apologizing for the crimes committed by
the Church, condemn those crimes and pressure the Church to do the
above or some reasonable variation with the same intent.
Does that clear things up for you?
Somehow I doubt. You guys just like to hate anyone who objects to the
behavior of the Church.
>
> >> And the bishop only has
> >> authority to move a priest within his own diocese.
> >> >And then Catholics like you spend your time justifying it or lying
> >> >about it.
> >> Yet when I give a truth, gobblers like you call it a lie.
> >I'm Still waiting for a truth from you.
>
> You show no interest in truth, just your black heart with no interest in facts.
Projecting I see.
>
> >> >And every time you put money in the collection plate you are financing
> >> >these abuses of the victims and secular law.
> >> Oh, bullshit.
> >You're financing their child abuse enabler protection insurance as
> >well as the support of those pedophile priests who are being hidden
> >and covered up for by *YOUR* church.
>
> The JJ report states that the pedo problem is no worst in the CC than for
> coaches, teachers, and youth workers.
So, the deflection is "they're as bad as we are".
Gee that's a great reason to continue.
And of course it completely ignores my previous comments that there is
a huge difference between organizations that report the pedophiles and
cooperate with the investigations and those who obstruct justice and
harbor criminals.
Sounds a lot like Racketeering.
>
> >> >Take responsibility for your tacit approval or do something to put an
> >> >end to these crimes.
>
> >> Good news. The house has already been cleaned, and you don't even know it.
> >Then why is the ArchBishop (or Bishop or whatever he is) being hidden
> >in the Vatican and not returned to the US to be interviewed by police?
>
> He's already appeared before the grand jury. Based on what I've seen, he is
> challenged only as to why he didn't defrock priests. Possibly you might like to
> study the issue a little more.
Good news. And he's the first in the history of the Church. I guess
public pressure and the fact that people are leaving the Church in
droves out of sheer disgust.
Very happy to hear that (yes I verified that information).
>
> >Why are pedophile priests still being harbored by the church and not
> >turned over for prosecution with the evidence of their crimes?
>
> It takes a witness to hold a trial.
And they exist.
>
> >Why is the Catholic Church not paying the full restitution it owes
> >it's victims and the tax payer in Ireland being forced to pay it?
>
> I have no idea what's going on in Ireland.
Well maybe you should give a damn.
Why are Priests excommunicated for fucking consenting adults but
Pedophile Rapist Priests are covered up for, hidden, and not
excommunicated.
Trance Gemini
It certainly does.
Trance Gemini
And they were turned over to the Police and the Schools cooperated
with the Police.
Whether they got fired or resigned is irrelevant since once they are
convicted they are on the Registered Sex Offenders list and can never
teach again.
Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?
>
> --------------------
>
> unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
> under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
> the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
> involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
>
> PB - Another LIE.
> Provide this secret Instruction telling the bishops to cover up.
> I would love to discuss this.
> And prove that you are a fool one more time.
You are a Catholic aren't you?
Why is it that the rest of the world knows about the Instruction
issued in 1962 but you don't?
Feel free to Google it.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote ...
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>>>"Jimbo" <ckdb...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>>>> >that have done so?
>>>>
>>>> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>>
>> Then they weren't transferred to other parishes to do it again?
>
>Nope.
>They were NOT moved to other parishes in order to do it again.
They were moved.
They did it again.
Stop weaseling.
>And let us play your game a bit.....
What "game"?
I'm not the one trying to defend the RCC's indevensible behaviour.
>If they were moved, does this PROVE they defended them?
They knew about it.
Amd they moved them.
And they did it again.
Many of them after several moves for exactly the same reason.
Why do you defend the church over this?
>>>>You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
>>>billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
>>>have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>>>
>>>The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
>>>evil pedophile fag priests. We want them out as fast as they
>>>can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
>>
>> Yet you defend the organisation that let them get away with it,
>> covered it up and transferred them to do it again.
>
>Nope.
Yep.
>We merely explain why some bad decisions were made.
Nope.
>That doesn't mean I defend those bad decisions.
So why do you?
>It means I understand how they came up with them.
Then you know itis indefensible,
>--------
>>>However, just because the RCC has paid out $ 2 Billion to lawyers
>>>(and a few victims), this does not mean that they have defended any
>>>such sicko's.
>>
>> No. They just hushed it up and transferred the perpetrators to let it
>> become the scandal it is now.
>
>So.... you then agree that the RCC did not defend them?
Do you have a better word?
>If so, what is your problem now?
Currently your dishonesty.
>> There is an arrest warrant for Cardinal Law should he ever return to
>> the USA,for his part in this.
>
>LIAR.
LIAR.
>> The Vatican wouldn't extradite him because they have no extradition
>> treaty.
>
>How do you know?
News reports.
>Some butt-wipe tell you this?
>Prove it.
>God, you are stupid.
Oh, the irony.
>>>In a few years, smarter people will be in charge, and they will
>>>determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
>>>of a few creeps.
>>> Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
>>>years that were accused of abusing some child.
>>
>> And what was the average number they molested?
>
>Good question, bw.
>Do you know the answer?
>MOST evil child molesters were accused of 1, 2 or 3 kids.
WHO WERE MOVED AND DID IT AGAIN.
>MOST evil priest child abusers were sent to counselling and NEVER molested
>again.
Then why did so many do it again?
>Only 190 or so evil priests received counselling, were cleared to return
>to the ministry, and then abused more childrem.
>That is 190 out of 100,000 priests over a 50 year period.
>Go ahead, prove me wrong.
>You can't.
I have nothing to prove.
The Vatican covered it up by moving priests who did it over and over
again.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
Were they transferred to do it again?
Was this before people started talking openly about it?
Or is this another expedient ad hoc lie because you have to say
something no matter what?
I've already pointed out a case from my grammar school when I was a
boy, before these things got talked about. Yes, he was fired. But he
never got to teach children again because it was on his record and he
couldn't get a reference.
He was not transferred to another school by a corrupt organisation to
do it again.
Stop pretending you don't know the difference.
If the church had been serious it would have unfrocked them instead of
transfering them, if they wanted to keep it quiet.
Christopher A. Lee
Was that a rhetorical question?
>> unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
>> under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
>> the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
>> involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
>>
>> PB - Another LIE.
>> Provide this secret Instruction telling the bishops to cover up.
>> I would love to discuss this.
>> And prove that you are a fool one more time.
>
>You are a Catholic aren't you?
>
>Why is it that the rest of the world knows about the Instruction
>issued in 1962 but you don't?
Because he is in denial.
Trance Gemini
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:00:42 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
<snipped>
> >Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?
>
> Was that a rhetorical question?
Well he can answer it if he wants to Lol.
But I think he's already demonstrated the answer...
<snipped>
> >You are a Catholic aren't you?
>
> >Why is it that the rest of the world knows about the Instruction
> >issued in 1962 but you don't?
>
> Because he is in denial.
Yup. Either that or it's willful ignorance.
mani deli
wrote:
>The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
>evil pedophile fag priests.
True, the RCC does that.
hypa...@comcast.net
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:55:50 -0600, Mitchell Holman <noem...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
> >news:er9qg51pplnlgld60...@4ax.com:
>
> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666
> >> <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >>>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >>>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >>>said Friday. "
>
> >>>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >>>judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >>>making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
> >> John 20:22-23.
>
> > Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
>
> > Care to try again?
>
> NO, I know where it is, and you don't. That shows the fallacy of your words.
>
So, where is it? Or, are you making this up, too?
hypa...@comcast.net
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:59:40 -0600, Mitchell Holman <noem...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
>
> >> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:55:50 -0600, Mitchell Holman
> >> <noem...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote in
> >>>news:er9qg51pplnlgld60...@4ax.com:
>
> >>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666
> >>>> <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >>>>>"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >>>>>Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >>>>>because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island
> >>>>>Democrat said Friday. "
>
> >>>>>So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be
> >>>>>not judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic
> >>>>>church making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >>>> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ
> >>>> himself to bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven. Mat
> >>>> 16:13-20, John 20:22-23.
> >>> Sorry, no mention of "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
> >>> Care to try again?
> >> NO, I know where it is,
>
> You pure ignorance leaves you out of this discussion.
>
Ya got 'im, Mitch! Doof hates responding to people
who show him to be the fool he is. Besides, it's not
up to him as to who may join a discussion or not. He
has no say in the atter.
hypa...@comcast.net
>
> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >everything ;-)
>
> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
slapped you in the face.
hypa...@comcast.net
> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >> >in the confessional?
>
>
> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >that have done so?
>
> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
want to hear, even when the Church itself has
admitted it.
hypa...@comcast.net
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>
>
> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >> >everything ;-)
>
> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>
> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>
> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
>
I found nothing about the Church pedophila problem.
hypa...@comcast.net
> >On Nov 28, 1:14 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
> >> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
> >> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
> >> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
> >> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
> >> >> >> >said Friday. "
> >> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
> >> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
> >> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>
> >> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
> >> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>
> >> >> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> >> >> >in the confessional?
>
> >> >> Nothing.
>
> >> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
> >> >that have done so?
>
> >> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
>
hypa...@comcast.net
> > >that have done so?
>
> > We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
> billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
> have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>
> can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
> (and a few victims), this does not mean that they have defended any
> such sicko's.
> determine that the RCC has been unjustly accused for the evil deeds
> of a few creeps. Yes, there has been 4000 priests over the last 50
> years that were accused of abusing some child. This does not compare
> to the 135,000 kids abused each year. (by family members, coaches,
> teachers, leaders in society...) However, why has the RCC been the
> ONLY organization that has been held responsible for the deeds of
> its employees.
> Be careful with your answer.
> I am prepared to call you a liar.
> And prove it.
> How many school superintendents have been sued and held
> responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
> And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
> more than the church. They have been moved more than
> your bowel mouth.
Comparisons between one group of guilty people and another
group of guilty people mean nothing. Both groups are guilty.
So, by saying that some teachers have raped their pupils does
not take away from the fact that some Catholic priests have
also raped some children. Both are just as guilty. The numbers
aren't as important as the crime.
And, I'd like to know from where you got your figures.
hypa...@comcast.net
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:20:17 -0000, Nomen Publicus <zzas...@buffy.sighup.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> >>>> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
> >>>> >everything ;-)
>
> >>>> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>
> >>>I care very much about this truth.
>
> >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>
> >> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>
> >> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church. I
> >> can't speak to British attitudes, but the JJ report about the pedophilia problem
> >> in the US in the period peaking in 1970 clearly stated that the problem of
> >> pedophilia is no greater in the RCC than for youth leaders, teachers, etc.
> >the amoral Irish priests were just moved to a new parish rather than dragged
> >to the nearest police station and thrown in jail to await a trial.
>
> Wow, strictly hitlerville, right?
>
> >This
> >required complicity of the catholic church hierarchy. As usual, the
> >coverup, when exposed, will cause much more trouble to an organisation than
> >just dealing with the original problems.
>
> According to the JJ report for the US, only 3% were moved.
>
Where can we read this 'JJ Report'?
duke
>Ya got 'im, Mitch!
Haahaahaahaahaa. I know what the bible says. You don't.
> Doof hates responding to people
>who show him to be the fool he is. Besides, it's not
>up to him as to who may join a discussion or not. He
>has no say in the atter.
I don't want to have any say in the atter [sic]. I said neither he, nor you,
have the knowledge to participate, not that you're not invited.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
duke
You fool, there is no "one" statement that the clergy of Christ will be called
"Catholic priests". The Levi priesthood of the Jews is OT, and catholic means
universal.
Uggg, the pure ignorance of some of the people in these newsgroups is
staggering.
duke
Google the John Jay Report.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 29, 2:59�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:15:23 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>>
>>
>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 29, 8:09�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> >> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> Nothing.
>>
>> >> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>> >> >> >everything ;-)
>>
>> >> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>>
>> >> >I care very much about this truth.
>>
>> >> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>>
>> >> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>>
>> >Some years ago?
>>
>> Yep, the house has undergone a major house cleaning.
>>
>> >Lahy was caught at the border with child porn on his laptop and there
>> >are indications that he's also been molesting children.
>> >The RCMP is investigating him as we speak.
>> >> BUT it is not the Chruch that is the problem, but the man hired by the Church.
>> >You mean the Pope?
>>
>> Nope, the priest first. �After all, he's just a hired hand.
>>
>> >And all the Popes back to 150AD (Beyond Belief book) who knew about
>> >this crime in the church?
>>
>> Uh, actually, the problem (in the US Church) began to appear in 1950AD , peaked
>> in the 1970, and then fell dramatically. �It was largely a problem of many of
>> the better types choosing the peace corps.
Good no response.
>> >And anyone and everyone who worked in the Vatican?
>> >And all of the Bishops around the world?
>> >That *is* the fucking church Duke.
>> No, the Church is the entire Body of Christians.
>All of whom either
>1. Actively covered up the crimes of Pedophile Rapist Priests from the
>Pope down.
You fool, the Church is 2.2 billion people alive and well today.
>2. Actively participated in hiding the Priests by moving them to
>different Parishes.
Only 3% is the US were moved, and primarily within their diocese only.
>3. Actively enabled these Pedophile Rapist Priests by either:
>a) Remaining silent and/or
Where were the parents and the bloody bottoms of their children?
>b) Apologizing for these criminal behavior of the Church.
Where were the parents?
>Criminal behavior such as Obstructing justice (not providing the
>evidence held by Church against the Priests); Harboring Criminals
>(refusing to turn Pedophile Rapist Priests over to the Police so that
>charges could be laid); Not reporting the Pedophile Rapist Priests to
>the Police, etc.
Heasay from a clergy is not evidence when parents don't report bloody bottoms.
>And those who actually have a sense of moral outrage have left the
>Church with a few remaining to protest this behavior.
It is we, the Church, that demanded the cleanup.
>I suspect they'll be excommunicated before long.
I suspect, na..........see, that you're not too bright.
>> >In Canada any organization that works with or is responsible for
>> >children is required to:
>> >1. Do background checks.
>> 60 years ago?
>Today.
>The Catholic Church still does not follow the law on this.
Extensive improvement.
duke
>On Nov 29, 8:09�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:20:19 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:34:25 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> >> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Nothing.
>>
>> >> >This effectively sums up the dooksters arguments on pretty much
>> >> >everything ;-)
>>
>> >> That's only because you don't care for the truth.
>>
>> >I care very much about this truth.
>>
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvWa8IU40P0&feature=related
>>
>> And no one is trying to hide from that problem so prevalent some years ago.
>
>And still prevalent today. New cases all the time, liar pedophile
>duke. Have you been paying attention to "the problem" in Ireland?
The US house has been cleaned.
duke
John Jay Report.
duke
gobble, gobble, gobble.
duke
No, you are acknowledging what your ass told you took place. You don't bother
with details.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Nov 29, 3:04�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:21:22 -0800 (PST), Trance Gemini
>>
>> <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> According to the JJ report, only 3% were moved.
>> >Thank you for admitting that the Catholic Church policy was to harbor
>> >criminals and enable their crimes.
>>
>> Thank you for being so crude that you can't acknowledge what truly has taken
>> place rather than what you do hopefully wished had happened.
>
>What I wish is the that the Catholic Church would stop spinning lies
>and start honestly dealing with problem by:
>1. Turning all evidence of Pedophile Rapist Priests to the Police
Is that with a court order or without, madam hitler?
>2. Excommunicate those Priests immediately and hand them directly over
>to the Police.
Is that with evidence or just hearsay, madam hitler?
>3. Take responsibility and pay out damages to the victims that
>acknowledge the seriousness of the crimes committed against the
>victims.
Done, madam hitler.
>4. Demonstrate some compassion to the victims by acknowledging the
>crimes instead of assuming they are lying.
Paying off without trial is compassion.
>5. Issue Instructions that this Secular Law is to be followed under
>all circumstances.
That's already the case.
>And that Catholics, instead of apologizing for the crimes committed by
>the Church, condemn those crimes and pressure the Church to do the
>above or some reasonable variation with the same intent.
We already did, demanding the house be cleaned, and it has been.
>Does that clear things up for you?
We're already ahead of yo u.
>Somehow I doubt. You guys just like to hate anyone who objects to the
>behavior of the Church.
In other words, you won't let truth get in your way of defamation.
>> You show no interest in truth, just your black heart with no interest in facts.
>Projecting I see.
You show that above.
>> The JJ report states that the pedo problem is no worst in the CC than for
>> coaches, teachers, and youth workers.
>So, the deflection is "they're as bad as we are".
>Gee that's a great reason to continue.
So clean the house involving teachers, coaches, youth leaders, doctors, police,
nurses, and on and on and on.
>And of course it completely ignores my previous comments that there is
>a huge difference between organizations that report the pedophiles and
>cooperate with the investigations and those who obstruct justice and
>harbor criminals.
>Sounds a lot like Racketeering.
Yep, and your kind are ankle deep in it as you hide your eyes from the whole
truth and all you and your neighbors that are involved with pedophilia.
>> He's already appeared before the grand jury. �Based on what I've seen, he is
>> challenged only as to why he didn't defrock priests. �Possibly you might like to
>> study the issue a little more.
>Good news. And he's the first in the history of the Church. I guess
>public pressure and the fact that people are leaving the Church in
>droves out of sheer disgust.
You just haven't figured out yet that the bishops are not the problem, but new
hires by the Church. The bishops have already been fully vetted.
>> >Why are pedophile priests still being harbored by the church and not
>> >turned over for prosecution with the evidence of their crimes?
>> It takes a witness to hold a trial.
>And they exist.
Where? A pedo does his thing on the courthouse lawn, or in a closed room? I'm
not sure you know the answer.
>> >Why is the Catholic Church not paying the full restitution it owes
>> >it's victims and the tax payer in Ireland being forced to pay it?
>> I have no idea what's going on in Ireland.
>Well maybe you should give a damn.
>Why are Priests excommunicated for fucking consenting adults but
>Pedophile Rapist Priests are covered up for, hidden, and not
>excommunicated.
They aren't. You're just showing your ass on this one.
duke
>On Nov 29, 8:14�am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:02:44 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Nov 28, 1:14�pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:02:58 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Nov 28, 7:08 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:14:55 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Nov 25, 7:51 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Budikka666 <budik...@netscape.net>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> >http://tinyurl.com/ylfgrj9reveals:
>> >> >> >> >"Providence Bishop Thomas J. Tobin has forbidden Rep. Patrick J.
>> >> >> >> >Kennedy to receive the Roman Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion
>> >> >> >> >because of his advocacy of abortion rights, the Rhode Island Democrat
>> >> >> >> >said Friday. "
>> >> >> >> >So despite the Bible distinctly commanding, "Judge not, that ye be not
>> >> >> >> >judged." (Mat 7:1) , here is a senior leader in the Catholic church
>> >> >> >> >making a hypocrite of himself by judging others!
>>
>> >> >> >> Yet Catholic priests are specifically authorized by Jesus Christ himself to
>> >> >> >> bind/loose on earth to be so held in heaven.
>>
>> >> >> >What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
>> >> >> >in the confessional?
>>
>> >> >> Nothing.
>>
>> >> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>> >> >that have done so?
>> >> We haven't. �You're just too crude to listen to us.
>> >You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do.
>> The JJ report says it all. �Try reading it sometimes.
>I have, and I have also been paying attention to what has been
>happening in the real world. Like I said, every piece of evidence to
>date says that you do.
You can't even admit that I have been demanding the house be cleaned all along.
duke
It is we, the Church, the Body of Christ, that have been demanding the cleanup
of the house. And it has been.
And your only comeback is to profess "we don't care".
duke
wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:31:15 -0500, "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"Jimbo" <ckdb...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> >Then whay has the Catholic Church, and you, defended pedophile priests
>>> >that have done so?
>>>
>>> We haven't. You're just too crude to listen to us.
>
>Then they weren't transferred to other parishes to do it again?
The JJ report says 3%.
>>You have, every piece of evidence to date says that you do. Over 2
>>billion in awards and settlements say that you do. So far, all you
>>have offered in return is a lot of finger flapping.
>>The Roman Catholic Church, The Dukester, and I do not defend
>>evil pedophile fag priests. We want them out as fast as they
>>can fill out the forms. Get OUT!
>Yet you defend the organisation that let them get away with it,
>covered it up and transferred them to do it again.
"Let them" comes from where?
>There is an arrest warrant for Cardinal Law should he ever return to
>the USA,for his part in this.
No, just to answer why he didn't defrock priests.
duke
<trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
>they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
>unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
>under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
>the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
>involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
Yet the Pope did no such thing. Besides the problem didn't even peak until the
1970's.
>Huge difference there that you apparently are too blind to see.
Ones that you are fabricating.
duke
>Comparisons between one group of guilty people and another
>group of guilty people mean nothing. Both groups are guilty.
NOt according to you. Coaches, teachers, youth leaders, etc are ok as
pedophiles the way you think.
Patrick
Why does the Catholic Church excommunicate Priests who fuck adults but
cover up for and hide pedophile Priests and not excommunicate them?
PB -- What makes you think the Catholic Church excommunicates
priests who "fuck" adults? Where did you get his idea?
Are you making this shit up?
Patrick
> > What part of that allows them to molest kids, or solicit teens for sex
> > in the confessional?
> > -----------
>
> > PB: what makes you think sin is allowed or authorized?
>
> The stringent and vociferous defense of this 'sin' by the church and
> many of it's glassy eyed sycophants has not gone unnoticed.
>
> Prove it.
LOL! Watch the news sometime you idiot.
-------
PB - I watch it all the time.
As I said, prove you silly lies, or shaddup.
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:38:29 -0800 (PST), "hypa...@comcast.net"
> <hypa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Comparisons between one group of guilty people and another
> >group of guilty people mean nothing. Both groups are guilty.
>
> NOt according to you. Coaches, teachers, youth leaders, etc are ok as
> pedophiles the way you think.
>
� The difference is that none of them pretend to be authorized by God to
teach the world about morality.
--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
mani deli
There ain't no "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
Patrick
"Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Trance Gemini" wrote ...
> "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> > How many school superintendents have been sued and held
> > responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
> > And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
> > more than the church. They have been moved more than
> > your bowel mouth.
>
> The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
> they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
>
> PB - NOT TRUE.
> Please don't bore me with your lies.
> Hundreds and thousands of teachers have been allowed to resign rather
> than go through the formal and difficult process of being fired for cause.
And they were turned over to the Police and the Schools cooperated
with the Police.
PB-- NO, They did not.
-------------------------------------
Whether they got fired or resigned is irrelevant since once they are
convicted they are on the Registered Sex Offenders list and can never
teach again.
Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?
PB, Obviously you have no idea, do you....
Please read a bit of the following:
------------------------------
SOUTHINGTON - A second-grade teacher at Thalberg School has resigned.
The school board accepted her resignation Monday The school board accepted
her resignation Monday.
School Superintendent Joseph Erardi said the district had no discussion
regarding termination and accepted Jarry's resignation immediately. The
resignation was submitted after Marie Jarry had spoken to a lawyer.
"She submitted an irrevocable letter of resignation to me, which I
accepted," Erardi said Thursday. "Any reports that she was terminated are
not true. I do not intend to make any further comments on this matter, given
it is a personnel matter."
http://www.myrecord-journal.com/site/tab1.cfm?newsid=19674564&BRD=2755&PAG=461&dept_id=592709&rfi=6
School Districts allow teachers to resign rather than go through the formal
and difficult process of firing them..
SAGINAW, Mich. -- A Kempton Elementary teacher accused of a racially charged
comment will resign under an agreement with the Saginaw School District
Board of Education.
On Wednesday night, members of the school board approved a "separation
agreement" with the third-grade teacher.
http://www.wnem.com/news/21593875/detail.html
Jul. 31--Bowdish Middle School teacher Anthony Cucinotti, who was put on
paid administrative leave in March after misconduct allegations, has quit
his job.
The recent allegations of inappropriate behavior are only the latest for
Cucinotti, who has taught sixth grade and middle school in the district
since 1992. Documents released by the district in response to a public
records request show Cucinotti has received eight verbal and written
warnings since 1993 over allegations that he lost his temper with students
and had inappropriate contact with female students.
The most recent incident involved allegations that Cucinotti snapped the bra
strap of a female student and became angry and hostile in class when another
student misbehaved. Several students said they saw him snap the girl's
strap; in an interview with district and union representatives, Cucinotti
said he only tapped the girl on her back, according to district documents.
After Cucinotti resigned in early June, Central Valley School District
Superintendent Ben Small signed a settlement allowing him to receive full
pay and benefits until Oct. 31. He also will receive compensation for 28
days of unused sick leave.
The district planned to fire Cucinotti but agreed to the re-signation and
settlement to avoid an appeal of the termination, Small said. Teachers
receive full pay and benefits during any appeal process.
"Even if we have an iron, locked case, you could be in the appeal process
for two or three years," he said.
http://www.allbusiness.com/education-training/education-administration/12603040-1.html
Dirty Secrets: Why sexually abusive teachers aren't stopped
A small but dangerous contingent of sexual predators lurks among the
dedicated teachers in our nation's classrooms
Sunday, October 31, 1999
By Jane Elizabeth Zemel and Steve Twedt, Post-Gazette Staff Writers
First of a three part series.
Children are often taught in school to look out for adults who might hurt
them. But sometimes, the grown-ups in their own classrooms are the ones who
could do the most harm.
Sexual misconduct by educators is a volatile, sensitive subject that's been
whispered about in school hallways and behind closed office doors as long as
there have been schools. But a lack of public acknowledgment has helped the
problem to spread and the bad teachers to circulate.
It's a problem that resonates nationally, but accusations of sexual
misconduct also have appeared recently in Pittsburgh-area schools.
Joseph Doherty, an Avonworth School District teacher, was cleared of
criminal charges but resigned under pressure after being accused of sexually
assaulting a student in 1997. He was able to get a teaching job in Maryland
this year even though Avonworth school officials had sent his case to the
state Department of Education for review.
Dennis L. Bair, a music teacher in Burgettstown Area School District,
Washington County, was convicted in June 1997 on two counts of indecent
assault of a female student. However, he was allowed to surrender his
license last year rather than have it revoked. That action effectively
sealed his records and could enable him to teach again outside the state.
Gary Serlo taught elementary school in Westmoreland County in the early
1970s before being sent to a Greensburg prison in 1974 for child molestion.
His license to teach in Pennsylvania wasn't revoked until last year, though,
when he was convicted of molesting three boys in his new school district in
New York. Because of an incomplete background check, school officials who
hired Serlo never knew that he had served prison time for molestation.
Larry Mihalko, an elementary school teacher in Gateway School District, was
charged earlier this year with indecent assault and other crimes. The
charges stem from allegations brought by former students -- three pre-teen
girls -- who have testified that Mihalko had improperly touched them while
they were sitting on his lap, including putting his hand under their
clothing.
Mihalko's attorney has said that hugging, patting and holding students on
his lap was part of Mihalko's teaching style. Mihalko's trial is scheduled
to begin in January.
Accused teachers represent a small percentage of our nation's educators. But
those who do abuse students often abuse more than one, and the damage they
do can be devastating.
The Post-Gazette has examined 727 cases across the U.S. in which an educator
has lost his or her license for sex offenses during the past five years, and
has found some disturbing trends. Among them:
The number of teachers who have lost their licenses because of sex offenses
has increased nearly 80 percent since 1994.
Several of those who lost their licenses were caught only after they had
been molesting students for many years.
Offending teachers sometimes get help landing another teaching job from a
unexpected source -- their former bosses. The practice is so well-known
among educators that they refer to it by name. They call it "passing the
trash."
Individual states' aggressiveness in detecting and removing predators from
the classroom varies widely, and some states do no background checks on
teacher applicants at all. There is a private, national clearinghouse that
tracks problem teachers but its director admits that states' reporting can
be spotty, leaving everyone vulnerable to the so-called "mobile molester."
Even when caught, offending teachers can launch appeals that allow them to
retain their teaching certificate for two to three more years. In some
cases, those teachers have moved to another state and used that certificate
to get a new teaching job until their appeals run out.
Weak communication between the education and criminal branches of state
governments means that education officials don't always find out if a
teacher has been arrested for sex crimes or other offenses. In one case,
Missouri education officials had to send a license-revocation order to a
Kansas man who had already begun serving a 90-year sentence for raping a
teen-aged gir
http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19991031newabuse1.asp
Dirty Secrets: Why sexually abusive teachers aren't stopped
By Jane Elizabeth Zemel and Steve Twedt, Post-Gazette Staff Writers
When a teacher who has resigned under pressure applies for a job in another
school district, often his previous school district will not reveal the
problems to the new employer. That's because previous employers -- not only
in school districts but in any profession -- are skittish about providing
unfavorable references and possibly being sued by the employee.
http://www.nospank.net/zemel.htm
Criminals in the Classroom 8/24/2006
Every year images of teachers are plastered all over televisions and news
stands and it's not because they are being given some prestigious award. In
fact, it's just the opposite. They are being accused of what many consider
the worst crime in this country: sexual assault against a child.
We always hear from the teachers later on how sorry they are for victimizing
their students, but are they truly sorry? One victim Donna Covello, a sexual
abuse survivor, was taken advantage of twice by the same teacher. Donna says
she was sexual abused when she was 14 years old by her high school guidance
counselor, Gary Landau. She says he started off slow by flirting with her. "
Then one day" says Donna. "he closed the door to his office. He told me
women liked to be raped, beaten and abused and he was gonna show me how to
be a woman." Donna knew what her guidance counselor did was wrong, but back
in the 1970's there were very few policies in place to protect students like
Donna.
Twenty years later when Donna got up enough courage to call her high school,
she was shocked to learn that Gary Landau was still working there as a
guidance counselor. Donna, a grown woman now, knew she had to do something.
She went to visit Landau in his office, but this time she was armed with a
tape recorder she had hidden in her pocket. Donna told our producers that
Landau was happy to see her and told her that he often thought of her. Donna
says during her visit, Landau tried to kiss her, but she pushed him away and
left. At 34, Donna still felt unsafe around him. Donna says that Gary Landau
was allowed to resign with his pension. No criminal charges were ever filed
because he agreed to leave quietly.
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=59727
> --------------------
>
> unlike the Catholic Church whose response was to issue an Instruction
> under the Seal of the Pope in the 1960s telling Bishops to cover up
> the crimes, move the pedophiles to different locations, and everyone
> involved was threatened with excommunication if this was exposed.
>
> PB - Another LIE.
> Provide this secret Instruction telling the bishops to cover up.
> I would love to discuss this.
> And prove that you are a fool one more time.
You are a Catholic aren't you?
PB - Yup.
You are a catholic basher, aren't you?
--------------------
Why is it that the rest of the world knows about the Instruction
issued in 1962 but you don't?
Feel free to Google it.
PB - Would you like me to post it?
It discusses the seal of confession, something that has been sacred for 2000
years.
Patrick
> Trance Gemini> <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Are you really as stupid as you appear to be?
>
> Was that a rhetorical question?
Yes, of course it was. We all know you are stupid.
You and the whorse you rode in on.
Patrick
> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>>> How many school superintendents have been sued and held
>>> responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
>>> And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
>>> more than the church. They have been moved more than
>>> your bowel mouth.
>>
>>The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
>>they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
>>
>>PB - NOT TRUE.
>>Please don't bore me with your lies.
>>Hundreds and thousands of teachers have been allowed to resign rather
>>than go through the formal and difficult process of being fired for cause.
>
> Were they transferred to do it again?
Yup.
It is called "Passing the trash."
Google it.
Then stop lying about it.
> Was this before people started talking openly about it?
> Or is this another expedient ad hoc lie because you have to say
> something no matter what?
It is called "Passing the trash."
Google it.
Then stop lying about it.
> I've already pointed out a case from my grammar school when I was a
> boy, before these things got talked about. Yes, he was fired. But he
> never got to teach children again because it was on his record and he
> couldn't get a reference.
First of all, I don't believe your story.
Secondly, if it were true, you would post the names of the guilty.
> He was not transferred to another school by a corrupt organisation to
> do it again.
> Stop pretending you don't know the difference.
and students report the incident to law enforcement and let them conduct an
investigation. Letting teachers go quietly to avoid a problem just creates a
bigger one and, more tragically, will likely claim at least one more young
victim.
http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=1265
Abuse accusations don't keep teachers from classrooms
Time and again in their seven-month investigation, Associated Press
reporters discovered cases in which educators accused of sexual misconduct
continued to teach. A sampling of such cases follows
PHOENIX (AP) - By the time Nicole was in her 30s, she no longer thought
about what happened to her in the third grade.
Her teacher, Mr. Welsh, had resigned, and school administrators promised he
would never teach again. Over the years, Nicole forgot his face, how he made
her feel, what he did.
According to court documents, Welsh molested Nicole between 1980 and 1981
while instructing other third graders in class. He abused her as she tried
to complete a standardized test, during reading time, and in the dark as
everyone else watched a movie. He also molested one of her classmates.
But David Edgar Welsh, a popular teacher who'd described himself to parents
as "a person who likes to touch and feel and hug," couldn't stay away from
the classroom.
Fifteen years after the Arizona school system showed him the door, he was
working in another Arizona elementary school. And this time, police were
investigating allegations that he'd molested at least one of his students, a
third-grader, just like he'd abused Nicole during the 1980s.
"How could this happen?" Nicole, now 35, asked recently as she sifted
through court documents that detailed Welsh's molestation charges. She did
not want her last name used because of what happened to her.
Ben Furlong was superintendent of the Kyrene School District, which includes
prosperous suburbs southeast of Phoenix, when Nicole's parents sounded the
alarm about Welsh. As the district's top officer, Furlong learned that
students had accused Welsh of molesting them. He knew that parents were
furious.
But after asking Welsh to quit, Furlong simply allowed Welsh to resign - a
practice that he said was standard at the time.
He didn't contact police. He didn't warn state child protection authorities.
Furlong, who retired in 1987, said he regrets how he handled the case
Crowley, once certified to teach physical education and coach, is now
selling cars in Columbia. He says he voluntarily surrendered his license
because he was tired of fighting the allegations.
- By Associated Press Writer Alan Scher Zagier, Columbia, Mo.
Of more than 230,000 cases of child abuse in 1984, just a little more than
200 involved school employees (Sally Banks Zakariya 1988). Given that kind
of record, many lawmakers and educators emphasize applicant privacy rights
in the investigation of potential employees. The National Education
Association, for instance, has a policy asserting "the right to be free from
fingerprinting as a condition of employment." Also of high concern is the
worry that a person "not be punished twice for the same crime."
On a broader scale, Richard Schromm (telephone interview, July 1990),
president-elect of the American Association of School Personnel
Administrators and associate superintendent of personnel services, Santa
Clara (California) County Office of Education, reports that the issue of
"wrongful discharge"--when for any reason you fire someone shortly after
hiring them because your initial screening failed--is a major concern of
personnel administrators today.
If you "ask too little" when checking on a person, you can open yourself to
a negligent hiring charge. A third party, such as a parent, can sue the
district if employees are hired without thorough background checks and then
commit a crime of any sort. This issue received attention from a U.S.
district court in a Cleveland, Oklahoma, case. The court ruled that the
school district had failed to investigate the background of a teacher who
was hired with a molestation conviction on his record and then convicted of
a second sexual abuse charge while working for the district (David Splitt
1988).
The case hinged on evidence that a relative of the teacher had telephoned
the district to warn that the teacher had "pedophile tendencies." Lawyers
for the parents of the boys involved argued successfully that the district
"showed a willful disregard or a deliberate indifference" to the students'
safety. The district is appealing the case on the basis of the "limited duty
of school officials"--Oklahoma has no laws requiring background
investigations on persons who otherwise meet the qualifications for the jobs
they are seeking.
http://www.ericdigests.org/pre-9217/checks.htm
The Background Investigator November 2008 Issue
Public Has Little Access To Teacher Discipline Records
By Andy Gammill
Cited from The Background Investigator,
http://www.thebackgroundinvestigator.com
Better background checks and stricter state oversight might do more to
protect Indiana children from dangerous teachers, but other states have
found that giving the public more information can be critical, too.
In Indiana, the public is barred from finding out so much information that
it becomes impossible to tell how big -- or small -- the problem of teacher
misconduct may be.
If, for example, you ask Indianapolis Public Schools for its records on
Daniel Uhde, you'll get a copy of his job application and resignation letter
and a list of his teaching assignments.
No hint that he pleaded guilty in 2005 to having a sexual relationship with
one of his students at Broad Ripple High School, a 16- year-old girl who had
sex with him in his home.
Nothing to suggest the district had suspicions about his relations with
female students for six years before that.
To this day, that information is off-limits to parents.
Passing the Trash
When Randall Crane came to teach at Jennings Middle School in Akron, Ohio,
the superintendent felt lucky to get him. After all, the principal at
Crane's previous school in Manchester had given him a glowing letter of
recommendation, noting his "outgoing personality" and saying, "I wouldn't
hesitate to hire him again."
Oh, really? That same principal helped oversee an investigation into Crane's
relationships with his female students, after accusations that included "too
much touching of girls," "too much like boyfriend/ girlfriend," and "taking
girls into rooms with the door closed." Crane denied any wrongdoing, but
agreed to resign.
No one at Jennings knew about Crane's earlier conduct because, the
Manchester superintendent told a local newspaper, "you don't want to pass
problems on to other schools, but at the same time, you weigh that against
what you can say that might cause litigation for your school too."
So Crane got his sterling recommendation and a new teaching job. Last June,
he got something else: a two-year sentence for having sex with a 14-year-old
student.
"It's called 'passing the trash,'" says Kansas State University professor
Robert Shoop, an expert witness in nearly 50 school abuse cases. "I've
worked with individuals who are in their fourth or fifth district, and you
find out they've been molesting people for 20 years."
This shuffling of sleazy characters from school district to school district
is just one way we're failing to fully protect our children. It's no small
concern: In 2004, a U.S. Department of Education study found that nearly 10
percent of public school students have endured unwanted sexual attention
from school employees, and close to 7 percent had experienced actual sexual
contact -- anything from pinching to kissing to outright molestation.
Let's make one thing clear: Most teachers are honest, hardworking, and truly
care for their students. And it's important to protect teachers from false
allegations, especially when harassment and abuse charges are used as
punishment for bad grades or strict discipline.
Still, there's no denying that the threat from molesters exists in every
state. In West Virginia, for example, sexual abuse of students is the No. 1
reason teachers lost their licenses over the past five years -- a whopping
35 percent of all licenses lost. And a Detroit News study found that, in the
15 months from January 2004 to April 2005, 22 present or former school
employees were convicted of sexual misconduct involving minors or the
mentally impaired. The vast majority were teachers, although a coach and a
janitor were also among those convicted.
Perhaps the creepiest thing is all the sexual predators we don't even know
about. When The New York Times recently investigated pedophiles, it found
that "the most frequent job mentioned was schoolteacher." How many parents
shuddered when it turned out that a slime ball named John Mark Karr -- the
man who claimed to have murdered Jon Benet Ramsey -- taught elementary
school.
Christopher A. Lee
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote ..
>> , "Patrick" <bark...@erinot.com>
>
>>>> How many school superintendents have been sued and held
>>>> responsible for moving a teacher-child abuser? NONE!
>>>> And the numbers of creepy child abusing teachers is much
>>>> more than the church. They have been moved more than
>>>> your bowel mouth.
>>>
>>>The School Boards and other Institutions haven't been sued because
>>>they cooperated with Police Investigations and fired those employees
>>>
>>>PB - NOT TRUE.
>>>Please don't bore me with your lies.
>>>Hundreds and thousands of teachers have been allowed to resign rather
>>>than go through the formal and difficult process of being fired for cause.
>>
>> Were they transferred to do it again?
>
>Yup.
>It is called "Passing the trash."
>Google it.
>Then stop lying about it.
It's on their record, imbecile. Stop lying about it.
But in any case, why do you expect me to do yiour work for you?
>> Was this before people started talking openly about it?
>> Or is this another expedient ad hoc lie because you have to say
>> something no matter what?
>
>It is called "Passing the trash."
>Google it.
>Then stop lying about it.
Inother words you don't know.
>> I've already pointed out a case from my grammar school when I was a
>> boy, before these things got talked about. Yes, he was fired. But he
>> never got to teach children again because it was on his record and he
>> couldn't get a reference.
>
>First of all, I don't believe your story.
Works both ways, serial liar.
>Secondly, if it were true, you would post the names of the guilty.
It was 50 years ago, imbecile.
>> He was not transferred to another school by a corrupt organisation to
>> do it again.
>> Stop pretending you don't know the difference.
>
>and students report the incident to law enforcement and let them conduct an
>investigation. Letting teachers go quietly to avoid a problem just creates a
>bigger one and, more tragically, will likely claim at least one more young
>victim.
Fifty years ago people didn't talk openly about such things.
>http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=1265
>
>Abuse accusations don't keep teachers from classrooms
More than just an accusation, imbecile.
duke
>There ain't no "Catholic priests" anywhere in the Bible.
I suggest you try reading something you never saw before - the New Testament.
Then you will see the error of your ways.
duke
Apparently also for none of them to practice said morality in their lives.
The problem is the person, not the position. And bad is bad, be it priest,
teacher, or youth leader. Or at least that's the way I see it. How about you?
�R.L.Measures
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:09:55 -0800, r...@somis.org (�R.L.Measures) wrote:
>
> >In article <gsf7h55n41ivl7dpf...@4ax.com>, duke
> ><duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:38:29 -0800 (PST), "hypa...@comcast.net"
> >> <hypa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Comparisons between one group of guilty people and another
> >> >group of guilty people mean nothing. Both groups are guilty.
> >>
> >> NOt according to you. Coaches, teachers, youth leaders, etc are ok as
> >> pedophiles the way you think.
>
> >� The difference is that none of them pretend to be authorized by God to
> >teach the world about morality.
>
> Apparently also for none of them to practice said morality in their lives.
>
> The problem is the person, not the position. And bad is bad, be it priest,
> teacher, or youth leader. Or at least that's the way I see it. How
about you?
>
� I agree that the problem is the person, however, the problem for the
one true church is that they knew and largely ignored the fact that there
were thousands of men with Holy Orders in their employ who were terminally
addicted to buttramming little boys. As to why they could not address
the problem, my guess is HUBRIS, Alas!