has anybody accidentally ingested alcohol post sobriety date?

[Fred Exley]

We had a company Holiday lunch the other day, and I took a swig of the
punch and coulda sworn it was spiked. It wasn't, but it got me wondering

a) has this ever happened to anyone here, and

b) if so, then what happened? i.e., could this trigger a relapse?

[Charlie M. 1958]

Oh for fucks sake, Fred, I hope you're just trolling.

I've accidentally taken a sip of my wife's drink at a wedding, and a
couple of times I've taken a bite of a dessert that obviously was
heavily laced with uncooked alcohol. I didn't feel the need to spit it
out, or run to a meeting and pick up a green chip. If I drink alcohol
/intentionally/, then I've got a problem. Accidentally? Not so much.

For those who believe that the mere taste of alcohol is going to trigger
an uncontrollable craving, let me clue you in on a little secret: I, for
one, can remember /exactly/ what every type of alcohol I ever drank
tastes like... just as real as if it was in my mouth right now. So if
/that/ was going to trigger a relapse, I'd have had one a long time ago.

[Cheeses H Christ]

My smart drinking app says your good to go. See one didn't hurt. Have another.

[Mike T.]

I took communion at a Lutheran church out of town for Christmas once
before realizing it was wine. Another time when I took my fiancee to
meet the parents for the first time my cup of ice water somehow got
switched with my stepfather's cup of vodka on ice. I took a mighty
swig of it before I realized what happened. I told my future wife and
she looked at me like my head was about to explode.

Neither of those incidents triggered a craving for a drink. Perhaps if
I had kept them to myself as secrets and obsessed over them it might
have led to a relapse, but I immediately told other alcoholics as you
have and was given similar experiences.

[Ted L.]

In article <k8mkhb$960$1...@dont-email.me>,

"Charlie M. 1958" <alw...@impatient.com> wrote:

> I, for
> one, can remember /exactly/ what every type of alcohol I ever drank
> tastes like... just as real as if it was in my mouth right now. So if
> /that/ was going to trigger a relapse, I'd have had one a long time ago.

Interesting. I haven't the slightest memory of what alcohol tastes like
(except for communion wine, of course.) I know towards the end I drank
mostly (cheap) vodka -- I couldn't tell you at all what that tasted like.

--
Ted L.
Benedictus qui venit in nomine Domini.

[Ted L.]

In article <xn0i5wbcg...@reader.albasani.net>,

"Mike T." <into.act...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I took communion at a Lutheran church out of town for Christmas once
> before realizing it was wine.

What church do you normally go to? I can't remember the last time I
went to any church that wasn't using wine for communion (although some,
including ours, offer grapejuice for those who have some kind of
prejudice against wine.)

[Rob D.]

Yeah. This is why I hate using white wine for celebration of the mass. Too easy to mix up the cruets, and accidentally try to clean the sacred vessels with white wine.
.
I've had it happen twice. Not an especially comfortable thing, but I can't sat it "triggered a craving," fortunately.
.
I try my best to make sure we hav red wine, but I travel to a lot of parishes.
.
The time that most freaked me out was in 1994, in Mexico. I was about 6 years sober back then. I went to some ceremony or other, but in the confusion, the anglo got left behind at the church, and I had to hoof it back to the sem shanks mare.
.
It was HOT that day, and when I got to the reception at the sem, I sat down and poured a glass of what I thought of as "bug juice" from the pitcher on the table. (This was a high school sem, so I didn't think anything of this. WHY would there be anything alcoholic on the table with 14 year olds?)
.
It tasted so good, I downed it all in about two swallows, and poured another, and drank THAT one down quickly, too.(Did I mention how HOT it was that day? It was also DRY.) I poured another, and remarked what a great flavor it was. What WAS the flavor, anyway?
.
They looked at me, and said, "It's sangria."
.
I was pretty freaked. I left the party, and walked over to a place I hadseen with a 24 Hr AA sign, just to talk with somebody.
.
They asked me what had happened, and I told the, I had been drinking sangria without knowing.
.They advised me to hang around for awhile, and I did.
.I think I posted about this a while back, and had someone give me that ,"Well, if you were a REAL alcoholic . . ." crap, which is NOT what I needed.
.I have since found out that"sangria" is a flavor of Mexican types of Kool-Aid, like fresa (strawberry) or uva (grape).
.
If you see a Mexican grocery, you may see a type of pop called "Senorial Sangria." It has a label saying "No contiene alcohol."
.
I worried about nothing, really.
.
Now, IF it had been the same situation, with me hinking it ad alcohol, and I *decided* to drink it anyway, even if it had nothing, I'll bet I would have ended up in trouble very soon, anyway.
.
But I have never made the DECISION to drink since May 4,1986, and I think this has made a big difference, even with the two swallows of white wine at mass.
.
I don't know that I would worry about it, or any nonsense of changing your sobriety date.
.
This sn't a competition. Your sobriety date, and whether you have been living the program is YOUR business. Nobody else gets to define that for you.
.
Here you are, talking about it, and reviewing how to properly deal with it. NOT the action of a drunk still on the barstool, but of a guy whotakes his recovery seriously.
.
Don't sweat it. Just my opinion.
.
Rob

[Mike T.]

Ted L. wrote:

>In article <xn0i5wbcg...@reader.albasani.net>,
> "Mike T." <into.act...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I took communion at a Lutheran church out of town for Christmas
>>once before realizing it was wine.
>
>What church do you normally go to? I can't remember the last time I
>went to any church that wasn't using wine for communion (although
>some, including ours, offer grapejuice for those who have some kind
>of prejudice against wine.)

United Methodist Church. They use grape juice. There are others
churches as well.

[Fred Exley]

Well this is all reassuring. I'm in a house full of drinkers right now,
and who knows what's in that cake...

[Jimbo]

On 22 Nov, 20:29, Fred Exley wrote:
> We had a company Holiday lunch the other day, and I took a swig of the
> punch and coulda sworn it was spiked.  It wasn't, but it got me wondering

You must go to New York and appear before the investigative council of
the AA Police to determine your real intent when you ingested alcohol.
You will have 30 days to comply and if you fail to do so, you will
automatically be classified as a slipper.

AA Police #242

[Jimbo]

On 22 Nov, 20:46, "Charlie M. 1958" wrote:
> Oh for fucks sake, Fred, I hope you're just trolling.

A few years back I caused panic at an AA meeting which obviously
lacked old timers.
After the meeting some guy took a cake and it was a hugh Black Forrest
cake which
is made with kir, a German liquor.

I did not eat any as I don't like that type of cake. A guy I slightly
new came up to me with a big piece of cake and askled me
if I wanted it and I said no. He pressed me as to why and I told him b/
c it contained alcohol.

He just about shit his pants and he took off around the room telling
people the cake had alcohol in it.

Soon there were half a dozen idiots in the toilet trying to induce
vomiting as I left the hall with a big grin.

The subject of" is eating a cake with alcohol in it a slip" was
discussed at the GSR meeting.

[Jimbo]

On 22 Nov, 22:39, Fred Exley wrote:
> Well this is all reassuring.  I'm in a house full of drinkers right now,
> and who knows what's in that cake...

Watch out for the hash Brownies!

[Hank]

In article <TedL719-06D172...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Ted L. <Ted...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <xn0i5wbcg...@reader.albasani.net>,
> "Mike T." <into.act...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I took communion at a Lutheran church out of town for Christmas once
>> before realizing it was wine.
>
>What church do you normally go to? I can't remember the last time I
>went to any church that wasn't using wine for communion (although some,
>including ours, offer grapejuice for those who have some kind of
>prejudice against wine.)
>

The Methodists (it says here) use grape juice, although one of their
ministers (who is one of us) recently told me that some of them are
using real wine.

However, I've discovered that if I want to drink something
non-alcoholic that gets me wanting a real drink of alcohol, nothing
can beat Welch's grape juice. And that stuff's pasteurized, so far as
I know.

Hank

[JoeRaisin]

Well that's just silly.

Wine into blood is one thing - but grape juice into blood just isn't
possible...

[Ted H]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 19:46:29 -0600,

Charlie M. 1958 <alw...@impatient.com> wrote:

> On 11/22/2012 7:29 PM, Fred Exley wrote:
>> We had a company Holiday lunch the other day, and I took a swig
>> of the punch and coulda sworn it was spiked. It wasn't, but it
>> got me wondering

>> b) if so, then what happened? i.e., could this trigger a
>> relapse?

> ...If I drink alcohol /intentionally/, then I've got a

> problem. Accidentally? Not so much.

This has been my experience too. At about 2 years sober I got
wine instead of grape juice at communion once, and it freaked me
out. Ended up not being a problem. Usually I can smell the
alcohol strongly enought that it's not a problem (I seem to have
an acute sense of smell, and am very sensitive to the smell of
alcohol).

I do wonder if there is some amount that might trigger a problem
even if it were ingested unintentionally--though it seems unlikely
to actually happen, and more of a theoretical question.

--
Ted H.

[Hank]

In article <k8mjh1$3hg$1...@dont-email.me>,

I don't trust a punch bowl, even at an AA function. There's always
some joker with a quart of vodka..... I recall one such event of
mischeivous hi-jinks at a Methodist family reunion I attended where
they all got quite pleased with the Planter's punch. (Not my
family---their punch was always 100 octane).

Sponsor to sponsee in my first year---if you do get snookered with a
loaded drink, put it down, drink something sweet, and get on with
things.

Then there's always "one tablespoon every four hours" in a
prescription when "that's the way it comes."

Mikey might have some trouble, since he's a "real" alcoholic.

Hank

[Tim and Lisa]

"Fred Exley" wrote in message news:k8mr56$1nt$1...@dont-email.me...

Send me a piece. . .;o)

[Mark Warner]

Mike T. wrote:
> Fred Exley wrote:
>>
>> We had a company Holiday lunch the other day, and I took a swig of
>> the punch and coulda sworn it was spiked. It wasn't, but it got me
>> wondering
>>
>> a) has this ever happened to anyone here, and
>>
>> b) if so, then what happened? i.e., could this trigger a relapse?
>
> I took communion at a Lutheran church out of town for Christmas once
> before realizing it was wine. Another time when I took my fiancee to
> meet the parents for the first time my cup of ice water somehow got
> switched with my stepfather's cup of vodka on ice. I took a mighty
> swig of it before I realized what happened. I told my future wife and
> she looked at me like my head was about to explode.

In my first 2-3 years of sobriety I would still occasionally drop into
my old watering hole to meet up with people after work and shoot the
shit or whatever for an hour (/not/ every single evening, all evening,
as before). I would have a non-alcoholic brew when I did. The bartender
had been there for years, knew my situation, and knew what I drank. But
one evening she had a brain fart and set a real beer of some sort in
front of me. I didn't pay attention, and took a big pull off of it. Knew
as soon as that warm feeling hit my gullet. Set it down, looked at the
label, and hollered "Julie, that's a really good beer. Too, good, in
fact." She looked at me puzzled, then looked at the Bud Lite or whatever
it was I was handing back at her and got this look of horror on her face
-- she was sure I was going to go back to being a slovenly drunk right
then and there and it would be all her fault.

We also used to have a family tradition on Christmas Eve to crack a
bottle of champagne to celebrate my parents' anniversary. I participated
in the toast, with a splash of the bubbly and essentially just wetting
my lips (similar to how many take communion wine), then handing the
glass off to someone that would actually finish it.

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 11/23/2012 8:36 AM, Ted H wrote:

>
> I do wonder if there is some amount that might trigger a problem
> even if it were ingested unintentionally--though it seems unlikely
> to actually happen, and more of a theoretical question.
>

Yeah, that one has been tossed around here a few times. For example, if
someone held a gun to your head and made you drink enough to get drunk,
would it trigger a relapse?

My gut instinct tells me no, but I hope I never have to test it out. I
clearly recall what being drunk feels like (the good, warm glow at the
beginning, as well as the spinning, wishing I could turn back the clock
feeling when it goes too far). I /choose/ not to feel that way anymore.
I don't think someone forcing me to do that once would alter my choice.

[Tommy]

"Fred Exley" <webm...@araa2008.gohsphere.com> wrote in message
news:k8mjh1$3hg$1...@dont-email.me...

I accidentally drank a glas and a hlf of pinck champers - jaysus it was
lovely - but - when I discovered it was not alc free, I went out for a walk,
go a bottle of tinted water (apple flavoured) and went back to the wedding
:-)

No after effects, no hangover, no guilt, no problem.

PS It was in Lanzarote, it was at a table where none of us drank and the
waitress nearly got sacked. My mum-in-law and her sis did get a bit watery
eyed but the joke was really on me. They werent alki, jst non drinkers.

I said 3 hail Marys, robbed the poor box, stuck a tail on an altar boy and
shagged 5 nuns - god was that busy logging up them sins to remember the
champers - ergo instant reprieve :-))

Cheers
Tommy

[groundhog]

On Thu, 22 Nov 2012 21:02:22 -0800 (PST), Jimbo <jbl...@videotron.ca>
wrote:

> Watch out for the hash Brownies!

AAA has a single miss of purpose hash brownies don't count

--
~
peace
mgh

just another droid...

[Fred Exley]

I took me several running jumps before I finally got over the hurdle of
stopping for good. One attempt lasted 30 days, so I got to thinking if
I never had more than a drink or two a day, I would be ok. So I did a
champagne brunch, and stuck to the two glass limit, then was fine the
rest of the day -no more booze. That bolstered my confidence, so the
next night I had half a bottle of wine with dinner. Day three, a whole
bottle with dinner and just kept going.... That pattern happened every
time I stopped for awhile -a gradual roll downhill that quickly picked
up speed. Was the tipping point physiological or psychological? From
what I'm reading here, I suppose it's probably the latter.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 11/23/2012 8:56 PM, Fred Exley wrote:
>
> I took me several running jumps before I finally got over the hurdle of
> stopping for good. One attempt lasted 30 days, so I got to thinking if
> I never had more than a drink or two a day, I would be ok. So I did a
> champagne brunch, and stuck to the two glass limit, then was fine the
> rest of the day -no more booze. That bolstered my confidence, so the
> next night I had half a bottle of wine with dinner. Day three, a whole
> bottle with dinner and just kept going.... That pattern happened every
> time I stopped for awhile -a gradual roll downhill that quickly picked
> up speed. Was the tipping point physiological or psychological? From
> what I'm reading here, I suppose it's probably the latter.
>

I know a lady with about 30 years who loves to say, "It's the engine
that hits you... not the caboose." She talks about how she used to
always try to figure out how many drinks she could "safely" have. But
the reality was that once she had the first one, she could not predict
with 100% accuracy what would happen after that.

I fully believe that I could go out to dinner with friends and have a
glass or two of wine without getting drunk. But, just like in your
experiments, I know if nothing bad happened that first time, I would
start upping the ante. Next it would be a cocktail or two /before/
dinner, then the drinking would start before I ever left home, etc.,
etc. I'm not sure how long it would take, but pretty soon I'd be right
back where I left off.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 11/23/2012 9:36 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

> I fully believe that I could go out to dinner with friends and have a
> glass or two of wine without getting drunk. But, just like in your
> experiments, I know if nothing bad happened that first time, I would
> start upping the ante. Next it would be a cocktail or two /before/
> dinner, then the drinking would start before I ever left home, etc.,
> etc. I'm not sure how long it would take, but pretty soon I'd be right
> back where I left off.
>

I meant to add this...

The bottom line is that for me, social drinking is the equivalent of
sopping sex before orgasm. I may be able to do it, but it's frustrating
and unsatisfying. And once I get to enjoying it, there is a very great
probability that I'm just not going to be able to resist the urge to go
all the way. :-)

[Bob]

When only a few years sober, I was almost completely bemused by craving
triggered due to an alcohol component of herbal 'medicine.' Learning
what had caused the discomfort did seemingly little or nothing to ease
the symptoms, but I feel it did clarify the problem. Having learned I
could stay stopped, I stayed stopped.

Apparently my psychic change had removed the obsession to drink
(psychological), and the continued practices inherent in inducing that
change overcame the compulsion to drink (physical)


My guess is that any "tipping point" could be either or both
physiological and psychological, dependant on A.A.'s 'spiritual
experience'/'psychic change' having actually occurred; or not.

Ironically, my psychic change was mostly specific to alcoholism, having
a seemingly minimal effect on my arseholeism - a shortcoming obviously
shared by some proponents of a spiritual experience as being _distinct_
from a psychic change.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2012 09:56 PM, Fred Exley wrote:

>
> I took me several running jumps before I finally got over the hurdle of
> stopping for good. One attempt lasted 30 days, so I got to thinking if I
> never had more than a drink or two a day, I would be ok. So I did a
> champagne brunch, and stuck to the two glass limit, then was fine the
> rest of the day -no more booze. That bolstered my confidence, so the
> next night I had half a bottle of wine with dinner. Day three, a whole
> bottle with dinner and just kept going.... That pattern happened every
> time I stopped for awhile -a gradual roll downhill that quickly picked
> up speed. Was the tipping point physiological or psychological? From
> what I'm reading here, I suppose it's probably the latter.
>

Hee hee...Sound familiar....The old augmenting the cocktail hour move.
--
Dr. Skeezix LaRocca, D.B. (Doctor Of Buffoonery)
Registered Linux Novice & Abuser #526706
We aren't cheap, but we're reasonable
No appointment needed

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2012 10:44 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

>
> I meant to add this...
>
> The bottom line is that for me, social drinking is the equivalent of
> sopping sex before orgasm. I may be able to do it, but it's frustrating
> and unsatisfying. And once I get to enjoying it, there is a very great
> probability that I'm just not going to be able to resist the urge to go
> all the way. :-)

Yup, kinda like smoking half'o cigarette, when you're dying for one....WTF ?

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2012 09:28 AM, JoeRaisin wrote:

>
> Well that's just silly.
>
> Wine into blood is one thing - but grape juice into blood just isn't
> possible...

Yew just be quiet...Quit stirrin' up shit....and yes, did you bring your
tithe envelope ?....Pastor needs a new Lincoln.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 11/24/2012 5:28 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:

> Yew just be quiet...Quit stirrin' up shit....and yes, did you bring your
> tithe envelope ?....Pastor needs a new Lincoln.

I'm glad you didn't say "Father needs a Hummer".

[Dexter]

"Charlie M. 1958" <alw...@impatient.com> wrote in message

_____________________________________________

That would have been appropriate if Mike had said he
attended a Catholic church.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/24/2012 08:50 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

>
> I'm glad you didn't say "Father needs a Hummer".

Not as long as there's altar boys.

[tim.h...@googlemail.com]

I arrived on holiday with friends. All know I’m alkie and helped me pick out alcohol free beer. I had 4 of them and said to my mate “it’s weird, I know it’s alcohol free but I feel a bit pissed”. I also noticed (and remarked) that I’d gone for another when we were all heading to bed.

3 days later, we went back and I went to get another 6 bottles. The whole shelf was alcohol free but I checked again, could see alcohol but got my friends to check again cos the other cases all said Alcohol Frie (I’m in France and done speak the language). Kind story short, it had been proper beer, I had been pissed and I’d slept for 15 hrs.

I’ve mulled it over, it was a complete accident, I hadn’t enjoyed the feeling, I’d commented but the others had said ‘your just caught up in the party mood’

A tiny part of my brain said “you went to bed and there was still a beer left, that wouldn’t have happened. But it was just the alcoholic mind playing tricks. It took 3 days to realise I’d actually consumed proper beer, I had no cravings and don’t feel like it was a relapse in the slightest - just a fuck up.

I feel blessed that I’m a few years into sobriety that I processed it that way. Am I wrong? I don’t think so.

T

[CharlieM1958]

I've accidentally taken a sip from my wife's drink once or twice, but
nowhere near enough to get buzzed.

Only you know if it was purely an accident. If that's all it was, you're
fine. Don't worry about it. I can't imagine wanting four non-alcoholic
beers, though. You might ask yourself what was up with that.

[badgolferman]

Aah, the NA beer slip. Have you considered the relapse started way before
you took the drink of real beer? There was nothing accidental about your
relapse, especially considering how hard you were trying to find more
“alcohol free” beer.

Ultimately it comes down to your own conscience. I think you know the
answer.

[Sharx335]

Dunno. When I accidentally opened a can of REAL beer, I KNEW from the
first fucking

mouthful what had happened--the label looked a LOT like a cola
label--REALLY.

I kept it in my mouth until I could get to a sink and spit it out.

HOWEVER, not for me to tell anyone else whether or not THEY had a slip.
They COULD discuss

it with THEIR sponsor. Hee, hee.

[badgolferman]

Did you read the part where he had four of them and then went back for
more? Then a few days later he got six more which ended up being real
beer. There was nothing accidental about this.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/5/2019 11:54 AM, badgolferman wrote:

>
> Did you read the part where he had four of them and then went back for
> more? Then a few days later he got six more which ended up being real
> beer. There was nothing accidental about this.

He didn't say he /got/ six more. He said he went back for six more of
what he thought was NA beer, and that's when he figured out it was the
real thing.
>

I see three basic possibilities:

1. The guy is a troll, and none of this ever happened.
2. He knew he was drinking real beer when he started feeling buzzed, and
now he's playing some kind of mind game with himself by lying about it
and asking for reassurance that he's okay. (Pretty whacko, but I guess
stranger things have happened.)
3. He really likes NA beer, doesn't speak French, and it was a pure
accident just like he said.

I'd put the odds at 1 in 3 for any of those options.

[badgolferman]

Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

>On 6/5/2019 11:54 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>
>>
>>Did you read the part where he had four of them and then went back
>>for more? Then a few days later he got six more which ended up
>>being real beer. There was nothing accidental about this.
>

>He didn't say he got six more. He said he went back for six more of

>what he thought was NA beer, and that's when he figured out it was
>the real thing.
>>
>
>I see three basic possibilities:
>
>1. The guy is a troll, and none of this ever happened.
>2. He knew he was drinking real beer when he started feeling buzzed,
>and now he's playing some kind of mind game with himself by lying
>about it and asking for reassurance that he's okay. (Pretty whacko,
>but I guess stranger things have happened.) 3. He really likes NA
>beer, doesn't speak French, and it was a pure accident just like he
>said.
>
>I'd put the odds at 1 in 3 for any of those options.

"I had 4 of them and said to my mate “it’s weird, I know it’s alcohol
free but I feel a bit pissed”. I also noticed (and remarked) that I’d
gone for another when we were all heading to bed."

He had four "non-alcoholic" beers and went back for more. Obviously he
wasn't just thirsty and wanted to quench that with a drink, he had four
and wanted more. He either was living vicariously by pretending to
drink beer with his friends or the NA beer actually triggered a
physical compulsion within him since these beers are not really alcohol
free.

"3 days later, we went back and I went to get another 6 bottles."

So he went back for six more bottles. Nobody who is drinking six more
near beers is drinking them to quench a thirst.

[Socrates]

On 6/5/2019 10:44 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> On 6/5/2019 11:54 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>
>>
>> Did you read the part where he had four of them and then went back for
>> more? Then a few days later he got six more which ended up being real
>> beer. There was nothing accidental about this.
>
> He didn't say he /got/ six more. He said he went back for six more of
> what he thought was NA beer, and that's when he figured out it was the
> real thing.

> I see three basic possibilities:
>
> 1. The guy is a troll, and none of this ever happened.

I think #1 nailed it. The best part is right at the end:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/5/2019 1:34 PM, badgolferman wrote:

> He had four "non-alcoholic" beers and went back for more. Obviously he
> wasn't just thirsty and wanted to quench that with a drink, he had four
> and wanted more. He either was living vicariously by pretending to
> drink beer with his friends or the NA beer actually triggered a
> physical compulsion within him since these beers are not really alcohol
> free.
>

If a guy wants to hang out with his friends and drink NA beer at the
same rate they're drinking the real thing, that's his business. But the
fact that he wanted another one when they were all going to bed, coupled
with the fact that he felt buzzed, should have tipped him off. Anyway,
what kind of alcoholic gets drunk and sleeps for 15 hours on 5 beers?
That's one reason I lean toward the troll theory.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/5/2019 2:13 PM, Socrates wrote:

> I think #1 nailed it. The best part is right at the end:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
>

lol. Yeah, but we're so desperate for action around here that we'll even
use a troll thread as the starting point for a discussion. :-)

[Dexter]

______________________________________________

So, I've been told there are as many stories in AA as there
are members, and they're all different when you get down to
the fine details.

I accidentally ingested alcohol twice that I know of and
once more that I suspect. Being in the retail liquor
business (in the U.S.V.I.) and encountering near beer,
alcohol free wine and an English style cider in my first
months of sobriety I found that both the near beer (from
Europe with no alcohol statement on the label) and alcohol
free wine does still had a tiny bit of alcohol in it (<0.5%
by volume, if my memory serves) and I realized after a few
sips of each that I had consumed alcohol and I simply put
them down then and there. Lucky for me I didn't drink
enough for the compulsion to kick in.

The English brand of cider I encountered was an entirely
different situation. The bottle had nothing on the label
that indicated it had alcohol in it. Having no experience
with English cider I thought I'd try it as I happen to like
apple cider. After consuming about an ounce or so I again
realized I had consumed alcohol. I stopped drinking it and
checked the label again and nope, there was nothing about
alcohol. I called our product representative who didn't
also didn't know but she called the distributor who
confirmed that it was an alcoholic cider (something like
15% or so - this was a long time ago.) In none of these
cases did I get drunk but I could feel the early physical
effects.

Did I change my sobriety date? No, not for those events.
I knew they were purely accidental and felt no need to beat
myself up about it. But they did teach me a lesson, which
was that I didn't need to be drinking any prepackaged
beverage that purported to *mimic* an alcoholic drink as
quite possibly it would have some very small amount of
alcohol in it. Doing so was, for me, simply tempting fate
and I had no interest in anything but total abstinence.

But I did change my date after intentionally smoking pot
some months later.

I agree with you Charley, It's a personal decision. To
thine own self be true, as the Bard wrote. But then, I can
only speak for myself.

--
"The most unsettling aspect of my atheism for Christians is
when they realize that their Bible has no power to make me
wince. They are used to using it like a cattle prod to get
people to cower into compliance." - Author unknown

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 6/5/19 3:13 PM, Socrates wrote:
.
>
> I think #1 nailed it. The best part is right at the end:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
>

Can I get that on 8 track ?

[Charlie M. 1958]

That's a bit old school, but he does have it on a 3.5" floppy disk.

[Sharx335]

Bah, I might have it on one of those old FIVE inch disks--as floppy as
Roc's tool, after a mega midget session.

[Sharx335]

I think you nailed it.

[Socrates]

No, but if you are viewer number 8,908,450 you get a six pack of non
alcoholic beer. :)

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/5/2019 3:42 PM, Socrates wrote:

> No, but if you are viewer number 8,908,450 you get a six pack of non
> alcoholic beer.  :)
>
>

He could just go over to Warner's house for that.

[Dexter]

______________________________________________

Best lip synch ever. Not.

[Mark Warner]

On 06/05/2019 03:13 PM, Socrates wrote:
> I think #1 nailed it. The best part is right at the end:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI

Thank God it had subtitles.

--
Mark Warner
Linux Mint KDE
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Socrates]

On 6/5/2019 6:13 PM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 06/05/2019 03:13 PM, Socrates wrote:
>> I think #1 nailed it. The best part is right at the end:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkTb9GP9lVI
>
> Thank God it had subtitles.

It was so awesome I had to listen again, and then I read the comments,
ROTFL:


The Mr. Man
6 days ago
Dad: TURN THAT OFF!
Me: Why?
Dad: THERE ARE BIGGER SPEAKERS DOWNSTAIRS!

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 6/5/19 4:39 PM, Sharx335 wrote:

>
> Bah, I might have it on one of those old FIVE inch disks--as floppy as
> Roc's tool, after a mega midget session.
>

Not bad, Sharx...Not bad. :)

[Jeremiah Bullfrog]

I had breakfast at the Elks Lodge by the Goodyear blimp with my wife and son about ten years ago. We were riding bicycles. The OJ was sour but I think it was a screwdriver mix. We did not drink it.

[Mark Warner]

You know what's weird? I haven't had any NA brew in ages. I'm talking
years. About the only time I'll have one is when we go someplace to eat
that serves it, and we just don't do that anymore. And I don't think
I've bought any to bring home since the Great Recession, when we stopped
buying anything that wasn't absolutely necessary.

Now I've got a hankering for some.

--
Mark Warner
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Charlie M. 1958]

Damn. Now I'll be on a guilt trip for making you relapse.

I drank a few (3 or 4 total) in my first year sober when I was in social
situations where other people were drinking. It just made me feel less
like an outsider. Like most of us, I came to realize nobody else really
gave a shit what I was or wasn't drinking. I also came to realize I
never really liked the /taste/ of beer all that much anyway.

[Ted H]

On Thu, 6 Jun 2019 12:42:21 -0500,
Charlie M. 1958 <alw...@impatient.com> wrote:
> On 6/6/2019 12:19 PM, Mark Warner wrote:
> > On 6/5/2019 4:46 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> >> On 6/5/2019 3:42 PM, Socrates wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No, but if you are viewer number 8,908,450 you get a six

> >>> pack of non alcoholic beer.?? :)

> >>
> >> He could just go over to Warner's house for that.
> >
> > You know what's weird? I haven't had any NA brew in ages. I'm
> > talking years. About the only time I'll have one is when we go
> > someplace to eat that serves it, and we just don't do that
> > anymore. And I don't think I've bought any to bring home since
> > the Great Recession, when we stopped buying anything that
> > wasn't absolutely necessary.

I probably have one or two a year. At one point I had a few in
the cupboard, but when we moved a couple years ago I realized they
were years out of date and tossed them.

> > Now I've got a hankering for some.
>
> Damn. Now I'll be on a guilt trip for making you relapse.
>
> I drank a few (3 or 4 total) in my first year sober when I was
> in social situations where other people were drinking. It just
> made me feel less like an outsider. Like most of us, I came to
> realize nobody else really gave a shit what I was or wasn't
> drinking. I also came to realize I never really liked the
> /taste/ of beer all that much anyway.

Yeah, that's the only setting I'll drink an NA beer now. On the
other hand, I still like the taste--but only the first one. After
that, the stuff doesn't taste good at all.

--
Ted H.

[Mark Warner]

On 06/06/2019 01:42 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> On 6/6/2019 12:19 PM, Mark Warner wrote:
>>
>> Now I've got a hankering for some.
>
> Damn. Now I'll be on a guilt trip for making you relapse.

Not to worry. I'll blame it on God. He's such an asshole.

[Tommy]

On 05/06/2019 5:54 pm, badgolferman wrote:
> Sharx335 wrote:
>
>> On 2019-06-04 6:13 p.m., badgolferman wrote:
>>> <tim.h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> I arrived on holiday with friends. All know I’m alkie and helped
>>>> me pick out alcohol free beer. I had 4 of them and said to my
>>>> mate “it’s weird, I know it’s alcohol free but I feel a bit
>>>> pissed”. I also noticed (and remarked) that I’d gone for another
>>>> when we were all heading to bed.
>>>>
>>>> 3 days later, we went back and I went to get another 6 bottles.
>>>> The whole shelf was alcohol free but I checked again, could see
>>>> alcohol but got my friends to check again cos the other cases all
>>>> said Alcohol Frie (I’m in France and done speak the language).
>>>> Kind story short, it had been proper beer, I had been pissed and
>>>> I’d slept for 15 hrs.


>

> Did you read the part where he had four of them and then went back for
> more? Then a few days later he got six more which ended up being real
> beer. There was nothing accidental about this.

Actherly he didn't buy the second lot, least he didn't say he got
them... And he stated at the outset that " A tiny part of my brain said

“you went to bed and there was still
a beer left, that wouldn’t have happened.

Which if he'd known they were alcoholic, would never have happened.

The Queens English is such a strange language, pity you yanks don't do
well with it :-|
I feel you do so much better with Spanglish

Cheers
Tommy

[Tommy]

We're such nice guys that none of us take the chance that it might not
be genuine :-)

I played snooker every Friday night with two pals in the NCOs mess.
They came along for the cheap beer. We took turns driving (it was
easier to get away with drunk driving in them there days) When I went
on the "dry", we still went each Friday night - and I tried every make
and flavour of alcohol free beer. I just plain didn't like the taste,
with the exception of Kaliber but they stopped stocking it.

So I went on pints of rock shandies. Which was a pint bottle of Orange
coupled with a pint bottle of Sevenup or red lemonade - I would probably
finish two or sometimes 3 bottles of each, which would work out at four
to six pints.
I would easy tell you that I actually felt giddy - not drunk but merry
:-) - and the fooken hangover the next morning was surreal.

Cheers
Tommy

[Tommy]

On 05/06/2019 8:48 pm, Dexter wrote:
> CharlieM1958,alt.recovery.aa wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2019 4:58 PM, tim.h...@googlemail.com wrote:

>
> So, I've been told there are as many stories in AA as there
> are members, and they're all different when you get down to
> the fine details.
>
> I accidentally ingested alcohol twice that I know of and
> once more that I suspect. Being in the retail liquor
> business (in the U.S.V.I.) and encountering near beer,

>

> I agree with you Charley, It's a personal decision. To
> thine own self be true, as the Bard wrote. But then, I can
> only speak for myself.

I notice that the people who label non alcoholic drinks as "near beer"
are the ones that seem to have a problem (in their heads) with don
alcoholic drinks.

Maybe just maybe if they considered calling it by its proper name ie.,
"non alcoholic" then they could in all conscience happily take a sip or
even (eye-roll) drink a bottle of it.

Just to add insult to injury... each living person produces the
equivalent of a half glass of alcoholic spirits daily - some will
produce more, especially when they ingest various fruits, yeast, sugars etc.

So stop eating and drink lots and lots of vinegar :-)

Cheers
Tommy

[Dexter]

______________________________________________

Perhaps you missed the part above where I wrote quite
plainly "...I can only speak for myself." I don't care one
tiny bit if you or any other adult, be they recovering
alcoholic or not, wishes to consume faux alcoholic drinks.
You're all grown up and thus you make your own choices and
will likely continue to do so without concern for my
personal preference.

I repeat, when I drank "non-alcoholic wine" I could feel
the physical effects I always associated with the
consumption of my first alcoholic drink of the night,
albeit to a much milder extent, but I did feel the effects
as they are quite unmistakable. Here in the U.S.
"non-alcoholic" is (or was at the time) defined as having <
0.5% alcohol and even this small quantity I can detect, not
by taste but through other physical manifestations. Thus I
choose, for myself only, not to consume "non-alcoholic"
beer or wine. That it bothers you enough to respond as you
did is something you might discuss with someone who is
sympathetic to your concerns.

Furthermore, I have heard many claim as you do, without
citation, that other common foods or drinks contain alcohol
as well but I have never felt those effects (again, they
are quite distinctive) when consuming anything besides
alcohol, near beer or non-alcoholic wine, so I openly
question those claims. As a medical professional with 25
years of experience in critical care in a major teaching
hospital I have never heard a physician claim that the
human body produces ethanol in response to the consumption
of sugar or fruit but if you have a cite for that I'd be
interested in reading it. However, in the absence of
support for that claim I will remain skeptical.

Meanwhile, let me be perfectly clear. I don't really care
what you or anyone else drinks or how much of it you drink
or even what you call it. I merely choose to abstain from
drinking alcohol or any other prepackaged beverage that
purports to mimic an alcoholic drink.

Regards,

[Sharx335]

Likewise, in fewer words.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 6/6/19 1:19 PM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> You know what's weird? I haven't had any NA brew in ages. I'm talking
> years. About the only time I'll have one is when we go someplace to eat
> that serves it, and we just don't do that anymore. And I don't think
> I've bought any to bring home since the Great Recession, when we stopped
> buying anything that wasn't absolutely necessary.
>
> Now I've got a hankering for some.
>

While on our recent trip, we had dinner with my nephew and his wife..I
had the 1st NA beer in probably 10 years..nephew asked if it was any
good..I replied It's like getting a kiss from your sister...Having one
is somewhat refreshing..After that, I would switch to water.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/7/2019 7:10 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:

> While on our recent trip, we had dinner with my nephew and his wife..I
> had the 1st NA beer in probably 10 years..nephew asked if it was any
> good..I replied  It's like getting a kiss from your sister...Having one
> is somewhat refreshing..After that, I would switch to water.

So you're saying the /first/ kiss from your sister is good?

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 6/7/19 8:17 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

>
> So you're saying the /first/ kiss from your sister is good?

Haa haa..Bad phrasing on my part

[badgolferman]

Dexter wrote:

>So, I've been told there are as many stories in AA as there
>are members, and they're all different when you get down to
>the fine details.
>
>I accidentally ingested alcohol twice that I know of and
>once more that I suspect.

I too have accidently ingested alcohol twice that I know of. The first
time I was about five years sober and had taken my future wife to meet
my parents at their beach vacation home. While sitting around the
living room talking I got up and poured myself a plastic cup of ice and
water. After drinking some I left it on the counter. Unknown to me my
stepfather had meanwhile poured himself a drink of vodka on the rocks
in the same exact cup style and left it on the counter as well. When I
got up to get some more water I accidently picked his cup up and took a
swig of it. I didn't realize what had happened until it went down. My
eyes got big and face got red as I told Linda what had happened. She
was afraid I would blow up or something but nothing else happened.

Many years later when our first son was five we were on vacation during
Christmas and went to a nearby church for Sunday service. When we went
up for communion and knelt at the chancel rail a minister went down the
line and gave everyone a piece of bread and a small cup of grape juice.
Coming from a Methodist demonination grape juice is what I thought it
was, but apparently Lutherans use wine instead and that's what I got.

In neither case did I have physical compulsion to drink more as I
normally would, but mentally I was quite disturbed for a couple days
until the shock wore off.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 6/7/2019 8:01 AM, badgolferman wrote:

>
> In neither case did I have physical compulsion to drink more as I
> normally would, but mentally I was quite disturbed for a couple days
> until the shock wore off.
>

The idea of accidental alcohol consumption does not worry me at all. At
least for me, it's not the /taste/ of alcohol that's going to set me off.

To get into trouble, I'd have to have the mindset of knowingly taking a
drink. Secondly, I'd have to consume enough to get at least a slight
buzz. If I decided to have a couple of drinks just to prove that I
/could/, I'm pretty sure I'd be in deep shit real soon. But if someone
put a gun to my head and made me drink enough to get drunk, I don't
believe I'd suffer any long-term effects, such as cravings for more the
next day.

What I'm getting at is that I believe relapse, for me, would require a
combination of physical and mental circumstances. As long as my head is
in the right place, accidental (or unwilling) exposure to alcohol is not
a danger. I guess in a way you could say I'm agreeing with tedw that I
can drink if I'm spiritually fit. The Catch 22, though, is that the
moment I /choose/ to take a drink, I no longer /am/ spiritually fit.

[badgolferman]

Charlie M. 1958 <alw...@impatient.com> wrote:

Can we call you tedw jr. now?

[Charlie M. 1958]

Except that my last sentence rules that out.

[Sharx335]

But after that first kiss...then what?  Lots of midget porn on the net,
showing midgets doing their sisters, you know.

[Sharx335]

Freudian slip?

[Socrates]

On 6/7/2019 7:01 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

> What I'm getting at is that I believe relapse, for me, would require a
> combination of physical and mental circumstances. As long as my head is
> in the right place, accidental (or unwilling) exposure to alcohol is not
> a danger. I guess in a way you could say I'm agreeing with tedw that I
> can drink if I'm spiritually fit. The Catch 22, though, is that the
> moment I /choose/ to take a drink, I no longer /am/ spiritually fit.

https://tinyurl.com/y6btvmzk

[Charlie M. 1958]

It's what we do. :-)

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 6/7/19 2:04 PM, Sharx335 wrote:

>
> But after that first kiss...then what?  Lots of midget porn on the net,
> showing midgets doing their sisters, you know.
>

Yep, midget porn and the Billsteins may be getting a little long in the
tooth, but they still are a cargo of contentment.

[Tommy]

On 07/06/2019 3:34 am, Dexter wrote:

> Tommy,alt.recovery.aa wrote:

>
> Furthermore, I have heard many claim as you do, without
> citation, that other common foods or drinks contain alcohol
> as well but I have never felt those effects (again, they
> are quite distinctive) when consuming anything besides
> alcohol, near beer or non-alcoholic wine, so I openly
> question those claims. As a medical professional with 25
> years of experience in critical care in a major teaching
> hospital I have never heard a physician claim that the
> human body produces ethanol in response to the consumption
> of sugar or fruit but if you have a cite for that I'd be
> interested in reading it. However, in the absence of
> support for that claim I will remain skeptical.

Do you know something Dexter, the nature and reaction of your reply
tells me loads about you vis a vis non alcoholic drinks.

However, I have experience in the addiction field too and I don't need
to go into detail about my qualifications, but if you know me and paid
any heed to my posts over the years, you would know...

You might do yourself a sevice and look up "endogenous ethanon"
which is the body producing its own supply of what we loosely call alcohol.

One other thing, I'm sure you've come across "Candida" in your vast
experience of 'care' - if not do yourself another service and look it
and 'acetaldehyde' up... although it needs to be toxic and my knowledge
doesn't go deep enough to explain how it gets into that state.

I'm permanently retired now so I could be out of date, but never out of
touch. While science might change with advances etc, the pyhsical body
won't - No, I don't have quotes for fermenting fruits and yeast in your
stomach - what I do know is that I was on antabuse and ate currants and
raisins cake and got violently sick, flashing lights etc,.. The MD
laughed as he explained what went on in my system.

Cheers
Tommy

[Tommy]

On 07/06/2019 2:01 pm, badgolferman wrote:
> Dexter wrote:
>
>> So, I've been told there are as many stories in AA as there
>> are members, and they're all different when you get down to
>> the fine details.
>>
>> I accidentally ingested alcohol twice that I know of and
>> once more that I suspect.

> In neither case did I have physical compulsion to drink more as I
> normally would, but mentally I was quite disturbed for a couple days
> until the shock wore off.

Oops, I dunno, slipping up once is an accident - but twice ???

We were at a family (in-laws) wedding in Lanzarote some years ago.
It used to be quite the thing.. Food, drink - especially wine, and
accommodation is dirt cheap over there. During the meal each table of
12 was served with an unlimited supply of wine and champagne. I sat
with mostly non-drinkers, including the Mother-in-law and the Duchess
and several of her sisters - we asked for non alcoholic champers and
grape juice.

For the toast I drank champagne out of a large glass . It was lovely,
cold and bubbly. I even ventured for a refill. I probaly had more than
a half pint of it before I looked at the bottles and saw that it was
11%. Truthfully I can admit that I felt good, not drunk, not merry but
cheerful. I was able to justify it by telling myself that it was a
total accident, and didn't attempt to drink any other juices.

On reflection I had never tasted champagne before, so I assumed that
what I was getting was alcohol free.

Today I can see where an accidental sip is nothing to worry about, but I
wouldn't chance a few mouthfuls, not knowing if my will power is as
strong now as it was then (now that I've gotten pretty much older)

To me I don't allow the discussion of alcohol free drinks to become a
bid deal
Others are entitled to differ :-)

CHeers
Tommy

[Mark Warner]

On 06/07/2019 10:01 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> The idea of accidental alcohol consumption does not worry me at all. At
> least for me, it's not the /taste/ of alcohol that's going to set me off.
>
> To get into trouble, I'd have to have the mindset of knowingly taking a
> drink. Secondly, I'd have to consume enough to get at least a slight buzz.

I think I've accidentally taken a gulp once. It was in early sobriety,
when I still occasionally would stop by my old bar and see what was up.
(As Frank says, nothing changes in those places.) The bartender knew I'd
stopped drinking, but knew to serve me an NA when I showed up (it was
Kingsbury at the time), so she set one in front of me, I picked it up
and took a slug... and I knew it was the real thing. Turned the can
around, and yup, it was Bud or something. I caught the bartender's eye
and said "Julie, that's a damn good no fun beer. Too good, in fact,"
while I held it up and showed her what it was. She freaked out, acted
like she'd just poisoned me, was beside herself. I just grinned at her
and said I'd trade that one for my "usual".

There have also been several times when I've had a taste on purpose. My
parents' anniversary was Christmas Eve, so for a long time the family
tradition was for everyone to arrive at their home, have a light meal,
toast their anniversary with champagne, and then exchange gifts. After I
quit drinking, I would take a glass of champagne, lift it for the toast,
and take a tiny sip. Then I'd hand it off to my mom, who would down it
in short order.

[Dexter]

_____________________________________________

First of all, my apologies for this lengthy post.

Some cites - I learn something new every day. Your
experience with antabuse is interesting and would certainly
be a teaching point for one of your clients. I'll keep it
in mind but I've never had a patient on antabuse so I had
no idea of the potential for this interaction in a person
who drinks no alcohol.

Candida species are common infectious agents in those
undergoing long term or multiple antibiotic therapy or who
are immunocompromised and we treat such infections
routinely. Even so, the production of ethanol by Candida
albicans would appear to be of no relevance to critical
care medicine. The first article seems to address
"auto-brewry" syndrome as a defence for DUI. But to quote,
in the healthy individual "These concentrations are far too
low to have any forensic or medical significance."

Acetaldehyde is a toxic metabolite of the breakdown of
ethanol by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.
That the chemical reaction can be driven in reverse by
various microorganisms seems to be the topic of the second
article. Again this seems to be of no clinical
significance as any ethanol produced in such a manner in a
human would quickly be metabolized back into acetaldehyde
by the liver, assuming the patient's liver is functioning
appropriately. If the liver is unable to do this then the
patient has a much more serious problem which we would be
addressing in the clinical setting. I've cared for
numerous patients who are in liver failure (never
admittedly as a result of alcoholism) as well as after
having received liver transplants and this phenomena has
never been addressed by the Hepatologists with whom I've
worked. The article seems to be addressing this as an
interesting phenomena from biochemical evolutionary
standpoint.

Are you somehow suggesting this as justification for
drinking faux alcoholic beverages? If not, then I'm not
entirely sure why you even bring it up. If so, then feel
free to do so as you wish.

I've never made any secret of my distaste for faux
alcoholic beverages which contain small quantities of
alcohol so you don't have to work very hard to glean my
viewpoint which stems from my personal experience. It's a
personal choice and if you wish to drink such beverages
then by all means do so. However, I will continue to
abstain.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10976182

Abstract

The concentration of ethanol in blood, breath or urine
constitutes important evidence for prosecuting drunk
drivers. For various reasons, the reliability of the
results of forensic alcohol analysis are often challenged
by the defence. One such argument for acquittal concerns
the notion that alcohol could be produced naturally in the
body, hence the term 'auto-brewery' syndrome. Although
yeasts such as Candida albicans readily produce ethanol
in-vitro, whether this happens to any measurable extent in
healthy ambulatory subjects is an open question. Over the
years, many determinations of endogenous ethanol have been
made, and in a few rare instances (Japanese subjects with
very serious yeast infections) an abnormally high ethanol
concentration (> 80 mg/dl) has been reported. In these
atypical individuals, endogenous ethanol appeared to have
been produced after they had eaten carbohydrate-rich foods.
A particular genetic polymorphism resulting in reduced
activity of enzymes involved in hepatic metabolism of
ethanol and a negligible first-pass metabolism might
explain ethnic differences in rates of endogenous ethanol
production and clearance. Other reports of finding
abnormally high concentrations of ethanol in body fluids
from ostensibly healthy subjects suffer from deficiencies
in study design and lack suitable control experiments or
used non-specific analytical methods. With reliable gas
chromatographic methods of analysis, the concentrations of
endogenous ethanol in peripheral venous blood of healthy
individuals, as well as those suffering from various
metabolic disorders (diabetes, hepatitis, cirrhosis) ranged
from 0-0.08 mg/dl. These concentrations are far too low to
have any forensic or medical significance. The notion that
a motorist's state of intoxication was caused by
endogenously produced ethanol lacks merit.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1148946/

Abstract

The stereochemical course of the reduction of acetaldehyde
to ethanol was investigated by evaluating, with the enzymic
system yeast alcohol dehydrogenase/diaphorase and
g.c.-m.s., the configuration of [1-2H]ethanol obtained from
[1-2H]acetaldehyde with different micro-organisms. Although
only S-[1-2H]ethanol was formed, all the micro-organisms
showed evidence of the existence of alcohol dehydrogenases
with opposite stereospecificity.

[treegu...@gmail.com]

Hahahahahaha!